we went way into overtime, the 11th hour starts now. >> good evening, i'm mehdi hasan. day 372 of the biden administration. and back in 1994, when he was senate judiciary committee chairman, senator joe biden guided liberal justice stephen breyer's confirmation on to the supreme court, 28 years later. 28 years later, biden will get the chance to replace breyer, who at 83 is the court's oldest member. he's expected to retire

at the end of this term. to borrow a line from the president, this is a bfd. >> i'm also grateful to the senate judiciary committee, especially chair senator biden. formally announces retirement. >> every justice has the right an opportunity to decide what he or she is going to do, and to announce it on their own. it. there has been no announcement from justice breyer. let him make the statement he is going to make and i will be happy to talk about that later. >> nbc news now reports biden will appear with breyer at the white house tomorrow this will be biden's chance to put his own imprint on the highest court in the land and it brings a much-needed opportunity for his white house to bring the focus off of their stalled domestic

agenda. nbc news reports that biden, quote, learned of breyer's retirement in the middle of last week and is senate democrats have also vowed to act swiftly. remember, amy coney barrett's nomination took just 27 days, a much faster process than usual. but even though democrats hold a majority in the senate, and republicans won't be able to use the filibuster, because they changed it for supreme court nominees in 2017, biden's pick is not guaranteed as an easy confirmation. >> we want to be deliberate. we want to move quickly and we want to get this done as soon as possible. >> does your party intend to block the presidents'nominee? >> we don't even know who the nominee is yet. so that is something that the president has an opportunity to make, should there be a vacancy. and justice breyer will determine when and if there is a vacancy. >> it's more than likely that mitch mcconnell is right now searching for any possible way

to throw a wrench into this confirmation. "the daily show" imagines him setting, quote, it is long-standing senate tradition that we cannot confirm a supreme court justice in a year where there is a new season of "euphoria" on hbo max. knowing mitch, he will come up with something equally ridiculous. still, breyer's departure gives biden the chance to make good on a major campaign promise, one that may have helped him win the democratic nomination, to nominate a black woman to the supreme court for the first time. >> we talked about the supreme court. i am looking forward to making sure there is a black woman on the supreme court, to make sure that we get that representation. [applause] it's not a joke, not a joke. i pushed very hard for that. >> earlier today, the white house said joe biden plans to honor that commitment. >> the president has stated and reiterated his commitment to nominating a black woman to the supreme court. and certainly stands by that. >> of the 115

justices who have served on the court, only tw have been black. justices thurgood marshall and justice clarence thomas. five black women are said to be among the possible contenders. a name that continues to come up as lead contender is ketanji brown jackson, who currently sits on the court of appeals in washington d. c. she's a harvard law school grad who once worked as a public defender and also clerked for justice breyer. jackson was confirmed to the appeals court in june by a 54 to 44 vote. all members of the democratic voted for her, including senators kyrsten sinema and senator joe manchin. republicans susan collins, lisa murkowski and lindsey graham also joined them. susan collins today weighed in on breyer's retirement. >> there is no need for any rush. we can take our time, have hearings, go through the process, which is a very

important one. it is a lifetime import appointment after all. >> funny, she didn't say any of that when it was amy coney barrett. and senator lindsey graham, still on that committee, issued a statement that read in part, quote, "if all democrats hang together -- which i expect they will -- they have the power to replace justice breyer in 2022 without one republican vote in support." in a moment i will be getting live reaction to the breyer news from congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez. but first let's bring in our lead off guests. philip rucker, pulitzer prize-winning reporter for the washington post, coauthor with carol leonnig of "i alone can fix it". alexi mccammond, a reporter from from axios. and harry litman, former assistant attorney general. he helped prepare justice breyer for his hearings in 1994. he now hosts the podcast "talking feds." thank you for joining me on

this historic night. phil, let me start with you. a week after the filibuster carve out for voting rights, we are now looking at how a new justice will be seated. how contentious could these confirmation hearings, potentially even with a democratic majority? >> they could be incredibly contentious, in part because that democratic majority is so slim, 50/50, decided of course by the tie breaking vote of president harris. president biden is going to need to count on all 50 democrats to support him in the supreme court nomination. there is not going to be much margin for error. he is going to be thinking, i think, about what kind of nominee can he put forward that is going to not only galvanize and win over support from progressive democrats, like senators bernie sanders and elizabeth warren, but who can also appease senator joe manchin in west virginia and some of the more moderate-leaning democrats in the conference. our reporters

at the post talk to a lot of democratic strategists, white house officials and operatives today and there is a sense of excitement about this opportunity and this reframing of the political stakes in the supreme court nomination battle. and there is a sense that this battle, even if it becomes contentious, will only serve to remind voters about the state midterm elections. and a reminder about abortion policy and the other core issues in their states, depending on the supreme court. >> a very good point. and i should remind our viewers, to be fair to joe manchin, he has voted for every single one of joe biden's judicial nominees so far. harry, let me bring you in now. as pbs spoke about the retirement back in september to justice breyer. let's listen. >> there are many different considerations and i have not yet made up my mind just exactly when. but i don't want to die on the court. and before

then i would like to retire. >> a lot of liberals, a lot of people on the left, raised the fact that the time that he need to step down sooner rather than later. they remember what happened with ruth baiter ginsburg. how much pressure do you think he was under? you know the man. >> moderate, but i think he was determined to avoid the pressure and if anything it was a disincentive because he did not want to make it look like the pressure was making him step down. here's a big institutionalist for the court and does not want the court in general, or him in particular, to look like it's ways to the political winds. my guess was this was always his plan. he knew -- and i don't know that personally -- but it's my strong guess. my point, mehdi, is that he announces it today. that's several months before the normal announcement date at the end of the term. and one can go forward and confirm even while he is on the bench. so i think it is

calculated to give the democrats and biden all the time they will need without any kind of crazy thing happening in the senate and even if it does. i think in that sense, his ultimate decision and probably where he was trending back then was to make it straightforward and relatively easy for biden to have a successor. >> and harry, he kept getting asked that at the time, when are you going to stand down? he said, i don't want to die on the bench. a line that they didn't think was sustainable, because none of us know when we are going to die. but let me bring you in alexi, how big a win could this be for the democratic party and the white house? >> it's very similar to what phil was saying. i talked with several presidents, some of the most prominent women's and reproductive rights groups

today. and they were excited about not just the opportunity to make history in electing a black woman to serve on the supreme court. but an opportunity for democrats down-ballot to reframe the narrative not just about abortion but about voting and about vaccine mandates. and about what the democratic party stands for. and i hope to draw a clear contrast with the republican party and point out all the things they're trying to fight against by way of these cases coming up in front of the supreme court. so they are already organizing on the ground and a lot of them have already been planning for abortion and reproductive rights to be an issue in the midterms. they've seen the policy changing on this. you will remember that voters started ranking the supreme court as one of their top issues in this brett kavanaugh fight. >> a good reminder, because for a long time it was republicans who always ranked supreme court as a big issue, unlike democrats. that's changed. they'll, this is all happening as the white house grapples with domestic and international changes, from the pandemic to inflation to ukraine. and we are in a mid term year. is this opening on

the court something of a lifeline for the white house? and for the democratic party? how much do you think the white house is going to lean into it? how much can lean into it, given that the ukraine crisis has not gone away? >> no and the ukraine crisis may be heating up here in the next 24 or 48 or 72 hours. president biden and his national security team are obviously focused very intently on what directions they are going, if and when that invasion into ukraine could occur. and what the u.s. response could be. but they welcome the distraction, the supreme court vacancy. it certainly is a political issue that could work in his favor at a moment when the president really needs a lifeline. he has had a very low approval rating right now. it's been a very difficult year. and it's coming off of a rather difficult few weeks, with the failure of build back better to pass in the senate. and the sort of prolonged pandemic that we are experiencing here in the winter,

with the omicron variant. and so the white house is very much looking to talk about a different issue and try to come up with some political momentum here in terms of the supreme court. but again, not taking their eyes off of ukraine. because that clearly is a crisis that could worsen in the days ahead. >> yes, indeed. and alexi, on the politics of this, the biden 2020 campaign turned around after his endorsement from congressman jim clyburn, south carolina, the black democratic vote. there's been a failure of voting rights bills, though, and this meant he could not deliver on one of his key promises to black voters. his approval ratings among black democrats have gone down. how might black voters now view his effort to put a black woman on the supreme court for the first time? >> i think many of them will be happy because he has followed through on the promise that he's made. this could restore a little bit of faith. but i think a bigger picture is that this nomination and his

intention to nominate a black woman reflects a trend within the democratic party of more and more black women running for office and winning. you can talk to operatives ahead of the 2022 cycle without them explicitly saying, look, we are getting away from language of this is the first this or the first whatever. we are going to elect a cohort of black women up and down the ticket. i think whoever is nominated for the supreme ticket will be another proof point for that, for voters ahead of the midterms. >> a very good point. harry, you said that the liberal groups will move a tad to the left. but still, the replacement of wire leaves the court with a big conservative majority. it's still 63. should this white house and the democrats still be working to expand and rebalanced the court?

this is something stephen breyer opposes, because roe v. wade looks like it is gone. there will be more decisions on gun control etc. just replacing breyer isn't enough, in terms of the long term future of the court. >> nowhere near. it's a young court and they will be holding sway for decades. in addition, as alexi mentioned, they took a big affirmative action case that is probably a death nail for affirmative action in universities, something breyer was a big fighter for. he was very fiery about it. it's a really big question. as you say, brian was opposed to it. but the bottom line, mehdi, is that it won't happen. whether it should, these concerns on one hand -- and then the immediate imbalance on the court that is going to last for a few decades, i don't think that the proposals will have purchase. and that's the main point. breyer, as you say, is going to go down as an institutionalist.

a guy who thinks about the court, tries to improve the image of the court. he almost seems like a 20th century, last century guy, relative to the sort of fiery, contentious nominations we have had since then. >> yes. >> i do you think, by the way, just pointing out in response to alexi and fill, this is a way for democrats to take rand's suggestion. that republicans may let it pass, let it go quickly. they don't want to fight and then lose. this might actually be a fairly short -- the numbers may be close but i don't think you will see a deeply royal process as you did with the last couple republican nominees. >> on that note, we will leave it there, philip rucker, alexei mccammond and harry litman. >> thank you. >> coming up, alexandria ocasio-cortez is here. i will get her view on the soon to be vacant seat on the high court and on the

future of the democratic party. and later, two of our best political analysts on the balance of power on that court and what republicans are likely to do to whoever the president nominates. all of this weighing on the mid terms. the 11th hour just getting underway on a wednesday night. wednesday night. i'm jonathan lawson here to tell you about life insurance through the colonial penn program. if you're age 50 to 85, and looking to buy life insurance on a fixed budget, remember the three ps. what are the three ps? the three ps of life insurance on a fixed budget are price, price, and price. a price you can afford, a price that can't increase, and a price that fits your budget.

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the pandemic made teaching and learning really hard. but instead of working to help students safely return to the classroom, the san francisco school board focused on renaming schools and playing politics. and they've even saddled our district with a $125 million deficit. tonight congressman klyburn of our children can't wait for new leadership. here's our chance for a fresh start. on february 15th, please recall school board members collins, lópez and moliga before our kids fall even further behind.

south carolina pivotal ally to the president offered his support for federal judgment shell child as a potential

supreme court nominee, according to our own mike memoli, -- thinks biden's pledge to nominate a black woman to the supreme court more than his own endorsement was what capital halted him to the nomination in 2020. joining us tonight is democratic congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez of new york. congresswoman, good evening, thank you for joining me on the show this evening. >> thanks. >> you are one of those progressives last year who said justice breyer should probably retire sooner rather than later. so i am assuming you are very pleased to hear this news today. do you think the pressure on him worked? >> i do. you know, well you know, there is no way of actually saying why is injustice by his mind. but i do believe the urgency of this moment, the fact that the countries very clearly on a precipice of fascism, and a return to jim crow. the sweeping attack on voting rights in this country, and the very real threat that we have of seeing what happened for example with -- ruth bader ginsburg passing

during the trump presidency. we could very well risk something like that happening again, and if that was part of this calculation. i think he was correct in his conclusion. >> yeah. yes, he did dodge the outcome of what happened with ruth bader ginsburg not retiring earlier. and you have a favorite -- pick yourself judge that biden should appoint himself? a lot of progressives as well as the attorney general from your state of new york have suggested eunice cheryl lee, and the legal defense fund? >> well, you know, thankfully there is no shortage of profound intelligent, accomplished, and just you know, genius frankly, legal genius that we have of black women that would be more than suited to serve on the supreme court. i believe cheryl is a profound and wonderful candidate.

i don't have a specific name right now, but thankfully we have a really strong bench of nominees. >> so, it is funny that the gop brought in a carve out from the filibuster for supreme court nominees that everyone is about happily use, but two democrats couldn't get on board with a filibuster carve out for voting rights just last week. i wonder, do you think president biden came too late to the fight on voting rights? was too late in coming out against the filibuster, that he should have led this fight much earlier and much more publicly? >> yes. absolutely he should have. i believe that dragging once feet on this, and this idea that -- you know i believe that the president was genuine and authentic in his assessment in believing that his decades in the united states senate and his relationships would be able

to bring manchin and perhaps sinema along. i believe -- you know -- he was mistaken in that assessment. i believe it was a mistake in the assessment in passing the build back better act, and we could pass that before the end of the year, i think we need to play hardball and go grass tax. i believe early in the presidency we did have four years to make this presidency, we have had and have to. and i think he should have gone stronger earlier, but he still has an opportunity to still go strong now. i do believe he is leaving some leverage on the table. both with our -- his legislative facing strategy in the senate, but also in his leaning on executive actions. there is a great deal that needs to be done, that he can deal with a stroke of his plan that he is not doing. and in order to really ensure that we are generating progress for working people, protecting the vote -- the right to vote, the marginalized, our environment, standing up to corrupt interests.

he needs to step up and do more i believe in his executive authority. either that or he needs to ratchet up on manchin and sinema. >> do you agree with bernie sanders that now maybe the time for senator kyrsten sinema who blocked voting rights in passing last week, to face a primary challenge in arizona come 2024? >> well, mehdi, as you mentioned that race is in 2024 and that means kyrsten sinema is about four years into her six year term. i don't believe she is really given a compelling case as to why she should be renominated as the democratic nominee for the united states senate and arizona. she has proven herself an obstacle to the right to vote in the united states, she's not an ally on civil rights, it is becoming a precipice and rather

contributing to the threat that we have in stabilizing our democracy. she is not standing up to corporate interests, in fact she is a profound ally to them. and i believe that you know, she is not doing what voters in arizona sent her to do. >> so -- so if ruben gallego challenged her in a primary or you would potentially support -- >> if it came down to someone like ruben gallego, kyrsten sinema, i think that would be the easiest decision i would ever have to make. there is no comparison. this is a state that deserves to be represented by a strong democrat that is allied with working families, and understands that we need to protect the rights of the marginalized. that understands that now is not a moment to stick up for corporations but rather stand up for working people. we need someone who has more allegiance to the actual people of this country than special

interests. >> okay. last question before we take a break, and we will carry this conversation on. apart from other domestic flights going on, there is a big actual real fight, a war possibly about happen in europe. how concerned are you about what's happening in ukraine? how worried are you about a full scale war in the u.s. and do you think biden is handling this crisis well so far, badly, okay, what is your grade? >> well, you know, i'm quite concerned about some of the dynamics here. one of them frankly is that you have entire military industrial complex outside the u.s. military, but, you know, part of this complex of contractors that frankly just left afghanistan and are starved for revenue. i'm very concerned about the urgency of the situation. really becoming a materializing into a situation that could be exploited by for profit military interests. now what is happening between

russia and ukraine's have profound concern, and the biden administration as well within their right to see a diplomatic resolution to this issue. one that does not hurt the cranium people, but allows them to exercise their right to self determination, and to continue to be a self determined nation. and so i believe the biden administration as well within the right to counter russia's aggression diplomatically, but there is not a military solution to this problem. in fact, on top of that, there is great concern for -- the washington post that there is also oil pipelines here at play and the potential design and entertainment of certain sanctions could participate and energy crisis. so we can ignore the role of fossil fuels and climate change

in the great need for energy transition. the contribution that those are making to the present situation. >> it's not often you hear aoc quoting fred zakaria, but i'll take, it congresswoman stay with us we have a lot more to discuss. coming up the future of the progressive agenda is -- can it move forward in a different form. when the 11th hour continues with alexandria ocasio-cortez.

news of all, it will actually help alleviate inflation. the build back better plan lowers prices for families and gets people working. >> the president met with some of the nation's top ceos today as he tries to salvage major components of his stalled agenda. still with us, congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez. what is your reaction when you hear some in the media already blaming the left for the midterms defeat that seems to be coming your party's way? and for biden's low approval ratings? what do you make of that people saying, he went too far left in his agenda? or at your colleague abigail spanberger's suggestion that no one elected him to be fdr? >> what people like that don't want to admit is that joe biden has governed pretty much the way he has asked him to. but the way they have asked him

to govern is to slow down, not do too much and we are now seeing the political consequences of not directly improving peoples lives quickly. and so i can't really point, unfortunately, to any major move that president biden [inaudible] -- >> i think we may have lost the congresswoman there. that was such an important answer there. i want to hear what she was about to say! what move was she about to point to? let's see if we can get her back. otherwise -- >> can you hear me now? hello? >> i can hear you now. let's see if our viewers can. you are back! it was like you stopped at the most cryptic moment.

tell that one thing, say what that one thing was. >> well, i can't point to one major agenda item we progressives or this so-called left sidelined the party in some dramatic faction, that led to this. the moderate end of the party has received everything they want from president biden, including the nominee himself. they got their president, their agenda, their sequence, their infrastructure plan with no bbb. they got all of it. and i can't point to any real substantive or serious or intellectually rigorous argument that the progressive wing has done, aside from supporting president biden, often more than the moderate wing has, in a way that could lead to sinking poll numbers. when you don't change peoples lives, people get upset. and we can improve peoples lives, forgive student loan debt and

we can improve his poll numbers while we are at it. >> last time i checked, kyrsten sinema and joe manchin were not self-styled socialists. what do you think will happen with build back better now? because advisor david plouffe told me that they need to give manchin what he wants, if you have to break it into chunks, do it. but you pass it and run on it get it passed in november. do you agree with that? >> the complication is that that has already been done with build back better. manchin has issued a list of demands and changes he wanted. that was the story of 2020. he wanted to decouple, he wanted it shrunk, he wanted it changed. and he was essentially catered to throughout this entire process. the issue that we have is that every day joe manchin, senator

manchin wakes up and has a different demand. and he wants to start over from scratch every single day. and so that is quite a difficult position to work with. this idea of just giving him what he wants, he has been given everything he wants. so i think the president needs some avenues. we need to explore what the alternative measures are to either bring senator manchin to the table or how we start exploring elements of biden's agenda that can move forward without senator manchin. >> yes. and of course joe manchin blocked his own voting rights bill last week, the bill he wrote. last quick question, we are almost out of time. you recently recovered from covid after a trip to florida. what did you make of the bizarre fury from the right,

that you weren't wearing a mask on your vacation, that you went to a red state, florida? from republicans on fox and rhonda santas's team? >> i can tell you how many of those republicans fly into my district and my airport, laguardia airport, who come in and beg new yorkers for money. they come into my district all the time and my state. they grovel at the hands of their donors. even as far as florida goes, [inaudible]. and not only that, but i can tell you that the people of florida certainly seem very revved up and ready to go to organize for the midterm elections. and i would be happy to return to the state of florida to really help them organize. >> on that note, we

will have to leave it there. congresswoman alexandria ocasio-cortez. thank you so much for coming on the show tonight. appreciate it. >> of course, thank you so much. >> coming up, eugene robinson and mike murphy are here to discuss it faces court vacancy could up in politics for the fourth election in a row. that's when the 11th hour continues. it's our january sale on the sleep number 360 smart bed. it senses your movements and automatically adjusts to relieve pressure points. and it's temperature balancing so you both sleep just right. save $1,000 on the sleep number 360 special edition smart bed, queen now $1,999. plus, 0% interest for 24 months.

do you struggle to fall asleep and stay asleep? qunol sleep formula combines 5 key nutrients that can help you fall asleep faster, stay asleep longer, and wake up refreshed. the brand i trust is qunol. there's no better issue that unites the democratic party then judicial picks. and especially supreme court picks. and so over the next month, they are going to be asking the white house, who were you thinking on for the supreme court? you are not going to be talking about build back better. we are going to be in a national thrall about who is going to be the next supreme court pick. >> justice stephen breyer's impending retirement could be a lifeline for the democrats in the coming midterms. and with another poll, this one from monmouth, showing

biden's approval ratings underwater, at 39%, it could give democrats a much needed boost back. eugene robinson, of the washington post is back with us, and mike murphy, co-director of the center for political future at the university of southern california. he also hosts, hacks on tap the podcast. you agree, eugene, with president obama's former chief of staff, jim messina, that the supreme court pick is an opportunity to change the conversation ahead of the midterms? >> it absolutely it is. and it gives them oh win. because this will end up as a win for president biden's nominee. they have had no trouble getting their judicial nominations for the senate. in fact, president

biden has put 41 judges on the federal bench. and so there should be no problem, there is no mention or senator sinema problem on these nominations. and it will help shore up the base and animate the base. because biden has promised to nominate a black woman supreme court justice and that is a good thing who most religiously voted democratic. >> and mike, you once worked for mitt romney. do you see a problem when republicans like mitt romney vote to confirm this pick? republicans like murkowski, collins, is there a reason for them to make a big deal about the democratic nominee? like their party did with merrick garland? given that they have a 63 lock on the court already? >> a couple may. and i will explain why. but i disagree with gene a little bit. i don't think that the

issue will be that big. it's not about changing the ideological makeup. it's about replacing a good center-left justice with another. and the democrats have the votes. so if you are the republicans, the choice you have to make is, do we raise a lot of hell and with the nominee from president biden through to kavanaugh to a grilling? and gin up base democratic voters and spend a lot of time not talking about inflation? or do we decide, let's score ideological points quickly and whoever the justice is, try to resonate the old defund the police stuff? that has some legs. the biden white house, if they are smart, they won't fall into that trap. but repeating their build back better mistake of reaching too far. instead, if i were them, and i am not want to talk about

judicial qualifications, but politically, justice brown jackson was recently confirmed by the senate with three republican votes for the court of appeals. so if i were political adviser to biden, i would tell him to bunt a good double here. if i am the republicans here, i'd be careful about picking a fight that distracts from the country. you're gonna respond to that? >> no. i think judge brown jackson's not that we have a consensus at least one of the leading two picks. she was recently confirmed and she did get republican votes. i guess i would only defer with mike, in that republicans will not be able to resist -- i think there is some republicans that just won't be able to help themselves. and, it will join up the democratic base -- >> well, i'm sorry fox hosts a

earlier -- which made me want to scream. mike, do you think making predictions in politics right now is a fools game on the dynamics from capitol hill and washington constantly changing. last week we were focused on the death of voting rights and build back better, that was bad for biden, now we are talking about the supreme court how could be good for biden? >> yeah, i think particularly in the inside world of conventional wisdom and in the media the one swipe prediction of politics is figuring out where the voters are, no place wobbles around this process and hyperventilating media but today every day as the head and were blowing up because ratings clicks, it's not a good kind of what's going to happen in politics. >> i don't know what is a good guy these days. eugene and mike are staying with us, coming up why voters in virginia are discovering why there is no such thing as a trump in the light. that is when the 11th hour continues. stay with us.

i've heard virginia's blue and all that, i never believed it was blue, i never believed it was blue. it's something you can win. i mean why, all these people that turned up last night, look without maga, -- >> virginia governor glenn youngkin did his best to distance himself from donald trump during last year's campaign, but that didn't stop the former president from claiming credit as soon -- now my guess eugene robinson put it for the washington post, quote, virginians are discovering a bentley unfortunately that there is no such thing as trumpism light. youngkin's first week in office showed him to be a trumpian culture warrior. still with us, eugene robinson and mike murphy. eugene, the up at for the washington post defending his action quote, virginia's parents have had enough with the government dictation of how they should raise their soldiers of the guy who is dictating to schools how that they should be doing with thousands of irony. eugene, your reaction is open in your paper? >> yeah that is exactly right that he ran this campaign

about local schools on his first day he sees this control of the schools from localities. he bans the teaching of critical race theory which is not being taught in virginia schools. so that is irrelevant. except we also bans the teaching of divisive -- you can't teach american history and race without raising divisive concepts. that is pretty divisive. and then of course he invalidates mask mandates that have been imposed by a local school boards that are supported by parents in the school districts. and, now, there is a big question as to whether -- he has been taken to court by a number of school districts. i suspect he might lose. but -- you know it's all about the culture wars first couple weeks at least an office are all about culture wars and not about the kind of

technocratic get it done optimistic government that he promised. >> and, mike, eugene summed it up there. invalidating of mask mandates, banning of divisive concepts, also the hotline, the snitch line for people to report on teachers. some of these things may backfire on him, but if they don't, youngkin is now the model for a lot of gop races going into the midterms right distance yourself but push a trumpy race baiting and gender anyways. >> well, no, i wouldn't take that -- first quickly let me say it's hilarious for donald trump to say, to try and claimed credit for virginia. he did not carry virginia if it was made the feathers. so even -- something else for him to claim that. now to your point, look, i think youngkin stumbled on this. the youngkin model is the youngkin campaign model, which is run on meat and potato issues play strong with the suburbs, avoid -- take the baseballs but of void -- suburban voters. now

this particular thing, politically -- i'm very pro mask mandates in schools because i believe public health is really important. that said, in a year, i bet we will find out we might have over killed on that because it is not as transmissible, it doesn't transmit as much as we think in children. we don't know yet, it is better to be safe than sorry. so youngkin was playing some trump here, though i still tao it will define his governorship. i think we stumbled on this one, that he has plenty of time to recover and we will see what he does. it will be a balancing act for him and we saw him--. >> but, mike, just to push back a bit over there. i think your point i might defy his governorship, main terms of the races off that he ran, is that the model for a lot of republicans that want to run the trump agenda? that want to get the base by talking about north of the critical race theory, white voters out and getting them

riled up but don't want donald trump physically turning up and standing next to them in a campaign, is that the circle that youngkin squared? >> well, that is the inspiration. marie youngkin did not have a republican primary, so he was able to -- fence post a bit. he didn't have to crawl through the world that pulls you over and it is such a destructive force for republicans being able to nominate candidates that can actually win. and so, youngkin was a special case, but yes they ran a great campaign and they did stay away from trump which quite frankly they are now trying to take credit for a state where he can't get -- so it's not the perfect future model, because it's hard for a federal primary to get there, but it was a shrewd campaign and there are lessons there for republicans to distance from trump without a doubt. >> last for 30 seconds ago. >> just to point out, youngkin won by two points. right? a narrow victory in the

state that almost always goes to the party opposite the party that won the white house the election before. so if he is going to read some sort of huge mandate into this, and if national republicans are going to race them mandate into this. -- >> a very good reminder of that. a very good reminder of the context of that race. eugene robinson, mike murphy, we will have to leave it there, a pleasure. we are back with more of the 11th hour after a quick break. quick break.

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wednesday night, with our thanks for being with us. tune in tomorrow night, we will be joined by white house press secretary jen sake, much to discuss with her including justice stephen briers visit to the white house, tomorrow, on behalf of all mike all leagues at the networks of nbc news. good night. at the networks of nbc news.

good night tonight, on "all in" -- >> the floor is yours. >> nbc news reports justice stephen breyer will retire from the supreme court. tonight, the big push to move quickly with a replacement and what we know about the short list for the bench. >> vulgar -- sexually explicit in my opionion -- pornographic. >> backlash to republican laws, banning books and history in schools -- >> i'm enraged that these books are being attacked and i'm not alone on this. >> plus, the catastrophic result of the right-wing disinformation campaign against vaccines. >> so, maybe it doesn't work and they are simply note