in the latest episode, our theme is longevity. i speak with preventive cardiologist and founder of the srs heart doctor suzanne stein balm about the effects the pandemic has had on our longevity. we talk with tracy chadwell about maximizing your professional longevity. listen wherever you get your podcasts. while you're there, hit subscribe so you can be the first to know when new ones are coming your way. that does it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. hey, there. i'm stephanie ruhle live at ms. nbc headquarters right here in new york city. this is thursday, january 27th, and we begin this morning broadcast with breaking news. we got the latest snapshot of our economy, and boy, does it look good. the gdp numbers for the fourth

quarter are fantastic, shows that the u.s. gross domestic product grew at a 6.9% annual rate at the end of 2021. that is significantly better than analysts expected. remember, omicron did not really hit until the end of the quarter, in december, meaning the report doesn't show the full scope of the economic picture right now. at the very same time, fed chairman jay powell says he's expecting to start raising interest rates in march, stressing the fact that the fed will need to be, quote, humble and nimble as it tries to bring down inflation. for everyday americans out there, here's the immediate problem -- raising interest rates will eventually bring down prices but not right away. and in the meantime, it's going to make things like credit cards and mortgages more expensive. it's probable going to take a chunk out of the market, meaning your 401(k) will be worth less, at least in the short term. but for savers out there, you may finally be making some money on your savings. let's discuss. i want to bring in jason

fuhrman, harvard university professor, served as the chair of the white house council of economic advisers. stacey stevenson, economics professor at the university of michigan. these numbers look fantastic. how can they help us understand where our economy is right now? >> our economy, stephanie, is in much better shame than i would have thought, than almost anyone would have thought a year ago. i looked at dozens of forecasts that were made a year ago for gdp growth this year, and they generally expected it to be in the range of 3% to 4% for the year as a hole. instead, we ended up at 5.5% for the year as a whole. there's a lot of challenge we still face. inflation is a big challenge, but in terms of the biggest test for the economy, how much it's making, it's making quite a lot. >> betsy, here's the thing. the pandemic is the reason the economy isn't going at full blast. it's holding us back. but is the pandemic also the

reason the economy is doing so well? think about the amount of money that's been flushed into the system. >> well, you know, i think if you want to point to what government has done in order to ensure that people don't suffer during the pandemic, i think you're absolutely right it's done a lot to keep the economy up. i think it's done a lot to support families and reduce the misery of the pandemic. i think we can applaud government policy and see exactly how important it is that government does step in when the economy is collapsing and we want to see a quick rebound. that's what the government promised when they started putting money into the economy, and that's what we see with this data. >> chairman powell yesterday said inflation is worse than he thought it would be. right now we're saying he's raising rates potentially a quarter point, not that much, but if you want to get a handle on inflation and keep ways with inflation, couldn't we be looking at a much bigger rate hike a lot faster?

>> what jay powell said yesterday is he doesn't know what's going to happen to interest rates this year. he all but locked in an interest rate increase in march, but after march it's really going to depend on the economic data. my own view is that inflation is going to probably come down from what it was this past year but still be high. if that's the case, i wouldn't be surprised if we ended up seeing something like six hikes this year, that they end up starting to do them every meeting. if that works, maybe they'll hike every other meeting the way they did in the last cycle. but they'll be looking to the data to decide. >> betsy, how do you thread this needle for people who despite the economy doing well don't feel that way and now they'll get hit with higher mortgages, likely lower 401(k)s and for the short term prices that are still really high? >> well, i think what people are really exhausted by is all the toss in the economy. the surprising thing about this

gdp number is how strong the u.s. economy has been despite the fact we got hit by delta, which we weren't expecting, then omicron, which we weren't expecting. it's caused disruption after disruption. that's what people are suffering from and i think that's why we needed to have fiscal policy that was strong through 2021 and why the fed has been so reluctant to pull back its support too quickly, because people are still suffering and we want to get everybody to the other side of it. i think what we see is the u.s. economy is nimble and it responds quickly and it increases supply, which is really what we need. so i'm really cheered by this fourth quarter number. >> cheered by this fourth quarter number, hard not to be. a really big, really positive number. betsy, jayson, thank you both so much. our other big story today, in just a few hours president biden and supreme court justice stephen breyer expected to appear together at a white house event, breyer set to

announcement his retirement and step down from the supreme court at the end of the current term. that's according to people familiar with his thinking. the 83-year-old justice was appointed by president bill clinton back in 1994. president biden saying he will leave it to the justice to formally announce his retirement. >> every justice has the right and opportunity to decide when he or she is going to retire and announce it on their own. there's been no announcement from justice breyer. let him make whatever statement he'll make, and i'll be happy to talk about it later. >> the retirement paves the way for president biden's first nomination to the high court. on the campaign trail, then candidate biden promised to nominate a black woman to the court. so let's discuss. josh letterman cover tgs white house. leigh ann caldwell on capitol hill. pete williams, who broke this story, because pete williams is the absolute best.

youniche nelson and a former federal and state prosecutor, served for merrick garland on the u.s. court of appeals for the d.c. circuit and the u.s. supreme court justice sandra day o'connor. pete, what are you hearing about the timing of this decision? >> we understand he made the decision several weeks ago and planned to formally notify the white house today with a formal letter, normally the way things work. i think the factors are these. remember, last term there was heavy pressure on him from progressives to step down after what happened with ruth bader ginsburg. she was urged to retire because of her bouts with cancer. she ended up staying on the court. that gave donald trump the chance to move the court further to the right with the nomination of amy coney barrett to replace ginsburg, and last time these called stiffened his resolve to stay bup i think this term is

different. he knows how washington works. remember, he's a former general counsel. he was the chief counsel for the senate judiciary committee, so he knows how this works, and i think he realizes that he doesn't want a nominee to come on -- at one point he said erase everything he's done for the past 25 years, so i think he realized this was the best chance for him while the democrats still hold the congress and the senate, which would vote on confirmation and the white house. >> josh, take us inside the white house. any clues on who might be on the short list? >> yeah. this news not able to come at a better time for the biden administration, stephanie, which has been reeling from a real string of bad news in recent weeks between the failures to get through build back better and voting rights, blows in the supreme court on vaccine mandates, and of course this growing confrontation with russia. and the white house knows that no issue is going to more energize base voters ahead of the midterm elections than a fight over the supreme court, one that the white house is poised to win if all 50

democrats stay together behind whoever it is that biden nominates, and that's one of the reasons that the white house was so quick yesterday to make clear that they are standing behind president biden's campaign pledge to nominate a black woman to the supreme court. they have had a short list for quite some time dating back to the campaign of folks they think are qualified. chief among them is of course judge brown jackson, who is someone who is already on the appellate court and has the benefit of having been confirmed less than a year ago by the senate including with three republican senators who are now of course going to be very closely watched to see whether they will back president biden's nominee to the high court. that will be senators collins, murkowski, as well as senator lindsey graham. a few other names that we are hearing quite a bit about include leandra kruger, who sits on the california supreme court,

as someone who is only 45 years old so could ostensibly serve for quite a long time, as well as michelle childs being backed by james clyburn, the longtime ally of president biden whose endorsement really helped president biden lock up to that nomination. she also has the benefit of not being someone from an ivy league background. she went to the university of south carolina as the white house looking to ensure potentially some diversity to that resume aspect of their pick. now, we do expect president biden, according to a source familiar with the situation, to appear alongside departing justice breyer today at the white house for that formal announcement of the fact he's retiring. we do not expect at this point that president biden will be announcing who he plans to nominate to replace breyer at this event today, stephanie. >> well, from the white house to the hill, leigh ann, what is

chuck schumer saying? what's the timing? >> leader schumer wants to move extremely quickly. he said once this nominee is named he wants to move expeditiously, including what we are told perhaps as fast as amy coney barrett was confirmed, and she was the person who was confirmed the quickest of any supreme court nominee. it took about a month. and the reason leader schumer wants to move is quickly, even though justice breyer is going to sit on the bench through the remainder of the term until june is because he has a very fragile majority. of course we know it's a 50/50 split. anything can happen. some of these -- the health of some of his senators, someone can -- anything can happen. let's just say that. so he wants to lock this in as quickly as possible. we also know this is an election year too. and so even though republicans don't have the votes to block this, they will put up a valiant fight to make this a political

issue. we've already seen that in statements from leading republicans including senator john cornyn, a close ally of mitch mcconnell, who said that the radical liberal left is most likely going to appoint someone who will legislate from the bench. so those are the type of attacks we can see. leader schumer wants this to unite his party, and he wants to move quickly and get it done quickly. steph? >> president biden has been dealing with sinking poll numbers especially among black voters who are losing the enthusiasm they had for him a year and a half ago. could this be a reset? >> this could be a reset. democrats essentially said this is a lifeline to the biden administration. of course he's still having a pretty high number of african americans around him supporting him, but the numbers have been going down. here is a moment for president biden to reiterate he has the back of african americans and he's going to be keeping his promises.

let's remember it was on the debate stage before he was even the nominee when president biden said that -- candidate biden said he was going to nominate a black woman to the supreme court. it was a huge moment on the campaign trail, a huge moment in our nation because since 1789 there has not been one single black woman put forward as a nominee for the supreme court. we've seen two black men serve -- thurgood marshall and clarence thomas -- one latina, sotomayor, but there are a lot of black women, especially black women who are the most important part of the democratic base saying they want to see themselves reflected in the people on the bench of the supreme court. this is a huge moment for president biden. he will be able to really express what he thinks should be next, not only of course in policy and of course in doctrine but also in terms of representing america. so this is absolutely a moment where he could at least, i don't know reset, because the white house pushes back on the idea of resetting, but this is a moment he could definitely once again sort of go to the african american community but really the nation as a whole and say

here are my ideals, here's someone i think is important and deserves to serve on the supreme court. >> it's also a huge moment for justice breyer. what will his legacy be? >> his legacy has so many parts, stephanie, because he's been on the court an amazing 28 years. one of the things i think he was known for internally at the court and among lawyers was his ability to work with his colleagues, to negotiate, almost to sorpt sort of wheel and deal, and that's important for what the court puts out. at the beginning of the country, when the supreme court first came into being, they had every justice issue his or her own opinion, which made it hard to know what the rule was. and he's been really well-known for working with the people on the bench, justice o'connor, my mentor, someone who he was particularly close with. and i do hope that it will be someone who has that kind of

personality who kinds up taking his seat. >> what could this mean, tali, for the direction of the court or slant without him, someone who did work with others, was a really considerate guy? >> so, stephanie, the court, when a new justice come, it's kind of like an arranged marriage. the pat has said you are going to grow old with this person, eat lunch every day with this person. i was there when chief justice roberts started and when justice o'connor left, and it is that big a deal for the ones who are going to be there for the next three decades dogt. one thing i'm thinking about is that the california supreme court justice whose name we just heard, lee andra kruger, would be the first person to come from a state court system onto the supreme court since sandra day o'connor. and in my experience, that was so impactful for justice o'connor because state courts

deal with the stuff of everyday life for americans -- crime and commercial disputes -- and she would talk about that a lot with her colleagues. you know, that was her experience, and i hope that, you know, we're thinking about all of the different experiences with these incredibly well-credentialed candidates that they could bring into that room, into that marriage. >> all candidates, all of whom have devoted their careers to serving our country and our justice system. thank you all so much. definitely making us smarter on this thursday morning. coming up next, spotify pulling neil young's music, yes, an icon, after he called it out for vaccine misinformation. that is still ahead. wow. spotify taking a stand. could be a slippery slope. first, we have to head overseas for the standoff between russia and ukraine still stuck at a crossroads. the latest moves by the u.s. and whether there is a path forward. .

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turning to the standoff between russia and the west over ukraine. as we speak, moscow is pushing tensions even higher, carrying out military exercises right on the ukrainian border. at the very same time, russia is still bringing more troops to the region, adding to the roughly 120,000 already there. intelligence officials telling nbc news it is increasingly likely an invasion could happen in the next few weeks. nbc's chief foreign correspondent richard engle has the latest from the front lines inside ukraine. >> reporter: deep in eastern ukraine this morning, ukrainian troops are bracing for the worst. the soldiers say they're ready for anything as the prospect of a russian invasion appears to be increasing. "we're in good spirits, no morale issues, no panpanic," sa the commander valentin. russia and the ukrainian

separatists backed by moscow have been fighting here for eight years leaving villages largely empty, destroyed and lifeless. ukrainians call these ghost villages, and the only sound you hear are all the stray dogs that have moved in. but they fear what could be coming may be far worse. russia's military buildup is accelerating, disguised u.s. officials say, military exercises in the black sea, these firing drills in the baltic sea, and along three sides of the ukrainian border including these forces in new satellite images. a western intelligence official tells nbc news russia has deployed up to 120,000 troops in 60 battalion technical groups with more, maybe many more, on the way. the buildup possibly reaching 100 battalion groups in the next two to three weeks, enough, they estimate, for a total invasion

of ukraine. russia has also brought in missile launchers and mobilized medical and logistics units needed to support an invasion. russia repeatedly says it has no plans to invade, suggesting the troop buildup is in response to what the foreign minister called hysterical threats from the west to punish russia with sanctions. diplomatically, the u.s. formally gave russia written answers as requested which fem far short of vladimir putin's sweeping demand that nato expansion since the collapse of the soviet union be undone and that ukraine never be allowed to join the group. ukrainian government officials say they are still hoping for a diplomatic solution, but the troops here in the trenches are doing what they can to defend themselves, including with american weapons that have been coming in. >> thank you, richard. joining us now to explain what all this means, the former supreme allied commander at

nato. thanks for being here. let's talk about where we are diplomatically. as richard just said, the united states basically rejected the kremlin's demands, but they keep saying there is still a serious diplomatic path going forward. what could that possibly look like? >> well, stephanie, i wouldn't say we're at the 11th hour, but we're getting kind of close to that. let's think of this as percentages. i still think there's about a 25% to 30% chance we could resolve this diplomatically, and that's what tony blinken laid out in the message that went back to the russians in writing. basically, it said let's continue talking. we can talk about conventional force levels across europe. we can talk agent ballistic missile systems, the open skies treaty, which both sides have withdrawn from. so, there are technical, diplomatic discussions that can provide a path forward. and i think importantly, steph,

it could provide a way for puten to climb down from the perch on which he has placed himself bip amassing all these forces. >> besides you just winning the clever points for the day, let's talk about putin's strategy because he is bringing in more battalions. 130,000 troops already there. can he step down from this? what's his strategy? >> he can step down if he takes the table stakes, the negotiation points that i mentioned. but what i worry about, look at those images that richard just showed us. ukrainians very brave, but they're dug in the trenches. that's world war i style warfare. the russians can mobilize helicopters, fast jets, cyber. they know how to do this. they've been fighting in syria. they're battle tested. we would say in the business a flooded army, and they're ready to go. so this is a very dangerous

moment, and, again, percentages i think unfortunately it's about a 70% chance overall that there will be some level of invasion in the next few weeks while the ground is frozen. it's hard. the forces are in place. let us hope vladimir putin knows how harsh these sanctions would be, is willing to take some level of negotiation, and is willing to continue the dialogue. that is the hope in washington at the moment. >> we always frame this or often frame it, i should say, as u.s. versus russia, but that's not really correct. you have lots of nato countries involved. how does that change the dynamic in your view? >> there are both pluses and some challenges with that, and having spent years as supreme allied commander in nato trying to convince nations as disparate as iceland and germany and france and italy and all the others to move in one direction, it's challenging. it's like a bicycle that has 30

pedals, each nation kind of driving at a little different pace. so that's the challenge here, but the good news, stephanie, as winston churchill said, the only thing worse than getting ready to go to war with a bunch of difficult allies is getting ready to go to war without any allies. and that's kind of the situation vladimir putin is in. he doesn't have a nato. he doesn't have 30 nations who control 55% of the world's gdp at 3 million soldiers under arms. he would be outmastered in a war with nato. he knows that. that's something working on our side. >> all right. thank you so much for joining us this morning. i really appreciate it. and your humor. still ahead, there is a growing push on both sides of the aisle, and during this hour of television, to limit or ban members of congress from trading stocks. and republicans are thinking about campaigning on it before the midterms. i have been asking for a lawmaker that doesn't think this is a good idea to join us, and

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time for money, power, politics, and the growing push to limit or completely ban lawmakers from trading stocks. 27 house members from across the political spectrum sending this letter to speaker pelosi urging her to bring a ban to the floor. it comes weeks after she publicly said she was against it, but now it could become a midterm issue. the cnbc reporting that alison kartevold -- kevin mccarthy wants to campaign on it as the republicans try to take back the house. 54 members of congress, both sides of the aisle, violated a law designed to prevent conflict of interest, including my next guest, pete sessions. he's a republican from texas and a member of the house oversight and financial services committees. first, thank you. i've been talking about this ban a lot on the show and i said anybody who is opposed to changing the rules i old love to understand why, so i appreciate you coming on. explain this to me. why do you think we should leave the rules as they are?

>> thank you very much. i was surprised to hear i violated the ban. there were two or three weeks reporting something, but essentially the law is now passed by louise slaughter, a dear friend of mine, from the rules committee, and it says that within 30 days all stock transactions need to be reported. and i believe members of congress do that. it may be ten days late, perhaps it's a christmas or something. it is important that we have the confidence of the american people and follow the law for this country, and it is important that we follow the rules of the house of representatives. but i think that this is a populist move just like when there's a government shutdown, people pop up and say we shouldn't take a paycheck. if you don't want to take a paycheck, don't take a paycheck. if you want to put it in a blind trust, put it in a blind trust. i think what we're doing works.

i follow the rules. others follow the rules. i think that there is one member that refuses to follow the rules, and they are going through the ethics committee at this point. they need to follow the rules. but no one's complaining members of congress made exactly to the penny what we made 18 years ago. no one is concerned about how much money members of congress make. and we do our job. but this is an issue that is a populist notion popping up. i was chairman of the national republican congressional committee during the 2010 cycle. we talked about the issues that affect americans, not the things that impact someone that no one ever talks to about. so i would doubt that we will use this as a campaign ploy in this next election. >> so you think kevin mccarthy is a guy who's leaning into a

populist move? >> no. look, i think mccarthy is doing a job to win back the majority. i'm sure that it's just like i was asked by a reporter, and i did say, i think it's -- of all the things that we have to consider, i think we have enough rules and regulations. i think mr. mccarthy would understand as well as tom emmer, held of the campaign committee, the national republican congressional committee, let's talk about inflation. let's talk about the border. let's talk about the lack of support for our law enforcement. to bring this in as an issue when it's not one of the top 50 would be an unremarkably silly idea in my opinion. >> we can talk about all of those things, but as far as how much members of congress are paid, limiting what you can invest in doesn't necessarily impact that, right? like, you could put it in a blind trust. right now the way the rules are written, you have access to information that the public does not. why is it okay for you to use

that information, sensitive information, to enrich yourselves? if i was an officer of a publicly traded company, i couldn't take information i knew about that company and trade the stock. >> i think that for you to assume that that's true would be a violation of the law by someone to give insider information. i've only been a member of congress for 22 years, and i have never received information like that. i do know that we had a member of congress who sat on a board who did receive that. he was found guilty. he used insider trading. but members of congress, even when we receive classified briefings, unless it's only two or three people in a room, we learned everything on the tv that we knew. i don't think that it's fair to say that members of congress have all this private information. we don't.

>> you don't think members of congress knew the severity of covid, the pending shutdowns, what we were facing overseas, what we were facing here. you don't think that members of congress knew that before the general public? because that information made members of congress millions and millions of dollars, just knowing what to invest the and what not to. >> i'd like to see the members of congress that made a lot of money because the facts of the case are everybody could have figured it out. i, sitting in my home, figured out this was going to be the thing that had been talked about. we already know that china has a huge problem. but who could have predicted that this would last as long? and i wonder who's made millions of dollars. because the stock market made money because republicans passed a tax cut. and that's why people made money. >> well, the stock market made money for a number of reasons,

one of which the only game was in town, rates being at zero, so you have to invest in stocks. but the argument if we don't change the rules, we should just enforce them, but the rules are really flimsy. right now you only have to pay 200 buck fgs you don't report. 200 bucks when you could be making hundreds of thousands, if not millions. >> that's not the point. you still have to report this. if you don't report it, you go to the ethics committee. $200 is if you turn it in late without some reasonable excuse. the bottom line is that even if it is in a blind trust and someone else is making the decision, i get to look and see what's in there. >> yes, but an ethics violation doesn't have any real consequences. >> well, okay, all i'm suggesting to you is i don't find where all these people are making millions of dollars. i just don't. and the other side of the coin

is i don't play the stock market. i don't day trade. i'm busy. i'm busy all day every day. but i have not received -- and once again, i've only been around 22 years, i have not received this critical information. the other side of the coin is no one's really allowed to come visit you in the capitol and hasn't been allowed to for a year. this is a populist idea. i got asked what do you think and i was a part of the first one in working with louise slaughter. and we tried to design it to where there was accountability, not to where we stopped people from having the responsibility of doing the right thing and then having the eye there to report. and i think that this is important. but even if i put it in a blind trust, i can still see what's in there because the report has to be manufactured. >> after the fact. congressman, thank you so much for joining me this morning. i appreciate it. >> yes, ma'am. yes, ma'am. thank you.

when we come back, commerce secretary gina raimondo will be with us to talk about the gdp numbers, inflation, and jobs. numbers, inflation, and jobs

back now to the breaking economic news this morning, the market opening up moments ago with the dow up over 350 points after we learned gdp went up 6.9% annually in the fourth quarter of 2021. that is very good news for our economy. it comes after the fed signaled it could raise interest rates in march to pull inflation, another sign we need help, but the economy is strong. let's dig deeper and bring in commerce secretary gina raimondo. always good to have you here. this gdp number really good, unemployment really good, yet the american people don't feel good about the economy. how do you read this? >> good morning. it's great to be with you. it's always nice to see you.

so, first of all, these are great numbers. i mean, not just big numbers today but this is the strongest economy in 40-plus years. wages are up. gdp growth is up. people are back to work. we're the only economy in the world that's stronger now than we were prepandemic. so i'm going to answer your question, but it's really important that we take a second to realize that this is great news and this is, you know, a very strong economy. why don't people feel it? look, i think that this pandemic has gone on for a very long time. people are frustrated, you know, moms and dads are still struggling, will school be open today, inflation is real and it's in everything. so i think it's a combination of covid and increased prices. the supply chain disruption, i talk to people, friends of mine who are frustrated that the backlog to their surgery is

months because of lack of semiconductor chips. so i think the fundamentals are there. people are working and making more money. but, you know, we have to get past covid. >> how difficult will this be from a political standpoint in the short term? so you raise interest rates with the hope of slowing down a rise in prices, but what does that do? it likely dims our 401(k)s, makings it more expensive to get a mortgage or other loan, and at the same time we're still paying higher prices for everything. >> yes. i mean, of course if the fed decides to do that, you know, the whole reality would be prices would come down. and so to the extent that folks are frustrated by inflation, i think you i'll see some relief on that. look, the reality is, and the president firmly believes this, i firmly believe this, i believed this as governor, we just have to keep doing what we know will improve the economy, improve the productive capacity of the economy, get people back to work, and it might take a

little bit of time. you know, covid, omicron, we have to get through this. but i am just so confident, steph, that these are the right things to do, and at some point in time, in some number of months, people will feel better because they will see improvement. you know, we're going to be laying fiber so everybody gets broadband. we'll see construction crews and their community rebuilding roads and bridges, congestion at the ports continues to go down. so, you know, folks want to see it, and they will see it because we're doing the right things. >> let's talk about those roads and bridgings and other plans you have. just yesterday you, the president, and a number of ceos met to talk about the build back better plan. what came out of that? we've heard joe manchin say he's ready to talk again. >> yes. you know, it couldn't have been clearer. we had a number of meetings, ceos across industries, you know, financial services, technology, software, cars,

industrials, all of them said it's time to pass build back better because although the economy is strong, and they know that, the investments of build back better will -- they're investments in the future of the economy. you know, so brad smith of microsoft pointed out the obvious fact, which is women can't be productive members of the labor force if they can't find or afford child care. so let's invest in affordable child care. they all talked about how vital and urgent the climb change investments are. can't wait anymore. economy can't wait. the planet can't wait. so it was basically what they said was we are here because we know the economy will be better, create more jobs, more productive capacity. that's what we're trying to get more people back into the labor force, more skilled people. all of them talked about the need for more technically trained workforce. so these are good investments

for long-term growth, and, you know, i think anyone who says this is a social spending program and not good for business or that business doesn't subpoena port it, they're just dead wrong. we have dozens of leading ceos who went on the record to urge the president, let's get this done as fast as we can. our businesses need it and we'll be better for it. >> take on child care and climate. ceos across america are behind that. secretary, thank for joining me. always good to see you. >> have a great day. >> you too. coming up, spotify agreeing to remove neil young's music after he told them to make a choice, get rid of his music or get rid of vaccine misinformation on their podcasts. they went with misinformation. podcasts they went wi mthisinformation. a. we're talking just two great ingredients. for your tastebuds.

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ben isn't worried about retirement his personalized plan is backed by the team at fidelity. his ira is professionally managed, and he gets one-on-one coaching when he needs it. so ben is feeling pretty zen. that's the planning effect from fidelity breaking news this morning. spotify has begun to remove neil young's music at the request of the iconic singer/songwriter. young said he was opposed to being on the same platform as joe rogan, the podcaster accused of spreading covid

misinformation. this morning young urged lizzer ins to stop listening. i've got to discuss this and bring in kurt bardella, a political analyst and the author of "the morning hangover," a country music news service. kurt, what if this isn't just about neil young and spotify? has spotify not drawn a line in the sand? what if taylor swift, cold play and beyonce come out and say me, too? >> that's the thing, stephanie. this reminds me a little bit of what we saw with the nba, when the players made the fight for social justice a front-and-center issue, they basically took the control, they took the power back and used their status and their following and their visibility to promote change. artists are now in that position today. they can decide collectively that they're going to take a stand and force spotify and other services to make that

choice between disinformation and reality. they can decide we're not going to allow our music, our platform, our resources to prop up a company and profit from a company that is doing a tremendous disservice to the global population by allowing someone like joe rogan to spew information that, frankly, is getting people killed. at this point in time spotify's money might as well be blood money, and i think that's what neil young is trying to point out. it's not about neil young and his catalog, per se. he's spent his entire life being a crusader for important causes. this is why he and willie nelson have done farm aid every year for decades now, why he's been an environmentalist, why he's dedicated his career to try to fight for these type of causes. i think a lot of artists need to take a look at themselves now because they have the power. >> before you go, when you talk about businesses making all sorts of money, a few minutes ago i was interviewing

republican congressman pete sessions who is arguing we shouldn't change the stock trading rules for lawmakers, they don't have inside information. you used to be the communications director for the oversight committee. on what planet is that possibly true? if you think about the subsidies, they know, think about cannabis regulation, for example. there are so many areas -- lawmakers know what companies are about to get subpoenaed if they sit on the financial services committee. >> i think back to when i was at the oversight committee and we did investigations into things like johnson & johnson, toyota, all the companies involved in the financial crash of 2008. knowing ahead of time there's going to be hearings, there's going to be subpoenas, i could have gone out and short-stocked all those companies i knew well ahead of time that we were going to go after. it is an insane competitive advantage that members of congress, that the institution has knowing what's going to happen in this case. the idea that anyone can sit

there and say that they don't have access to information that the public doesn't is absolutely nonsense. >> nonsense and a whole lot of silly noise. if you really believe the only amount of money many, many of those lawmakers make is from what they get paid from the government, well, i've got a bridge to sell you. kurt bardella, thank you for joining us, making us smarter on a multitude of topics. that wraps us up on this very busy hour. i'm stephanie ruhle. jose diaz balart picks up breaking news coverage right after this. right after this okay. y'all gotta hear this next one. kevin holds all my shirts and shorts. he even stuck with me through a cross country move. yeah, i named my dresser kevin. wow! i need a kevin that holds all my clothes. alright. i am sold.

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