>> that we love them. >> that their mama loved them unconditionally. >> that's all for this edition of "dateline. " i'm natalie morales. thank you for watching. good evening, i'm katie fang infirmity hassan we finally got to hear, this week from officer eugene goodman one of the heroes of the january six insurrection he received a congressional gold medal, and escorted -- for his actions luring rioters away from the doors at the senate chain burr, that was the harboring lawmakers inside officer goodman told a podcast, this week, that he didn't even know, that rioters had breached the walls until moments before

they face them down goodman, an army veteran, said he switched him to go mode. to really understand how we got to january 6th, i want to tell you about another harrowing capitol police officer. on december 14th, 2020, weeks earlier, this officer was protecting, not the united states capitol, but the state house in michigan. when a group was trying to get inside it. was the day that the electoral college, we talk so much about were meeting to cast their votes for joe biden, who had won the ovary state by a decisive 154,000 votes. this group told the michigan state trooper, that they were the electors. they had a right to be inside the capital on the day that the actual electors were formally declaring joe biden the winner of michigan, 16 electoral votes. . this trooper stood his ground. he turned them away.

those fake electors still try to get those votes to trump instead they. submitted false documents saying, donald trump won the state. this didn't just happen in michigan. republican submitted false documents and slates of fake electors, and other key swing states that biden had won just last week, michigan attorney general, dana nessel, asked federal prosecutors to investigate. she said, there may have been coordination among the fake electors in different states this week, we heard this, from u.s. deputy attorney general >> in terms of fraudulent electoral certification, we receive those referrals, our prosecutors are looking -- i can say anything more on ongoing investigations. >> now we know, that the january six committee is looking into the fake electors, as well. the panel is receiving information, this week, about

the trump campaign's possible involvement in the michigan scheme. michigan secretary of state, jocelyn benson, said this letter to house investigators, and the justice department, concerning information that surfaced recently and may not be known by the committee. many state officials stood their ground and follow the law, helping to prevent donald trump and his allies from stealing the election. since then, republicans have been systematically weakening many of the phil safes. come november 2024, or even november 2022, insurrectionists may not need to confirm -- the will of the people villa ready have the rules on their side michigan secretary of state, jocelyn benson is with us now to explain more about the information that surfaced recently thanks for being here i really wanted to know, what's specific information -- and the department of justice

needed to have. did you worry that there was some information that was at risk of not being acknowledged by them? >> first in first, thanks for having me. and hosting this important conversation. i think -- chief election officer is to turn over the receipts that we kept of a number of things that occurred in a very small time -- in a window of, time in december 2020. that suggests coordination and collusion, from the highest levels, into what's in michigan, to undermine our election results. so, we submitted additional evidence, this week, that included a detailed transcript of rudy giuliani's appearance, before legislative could be on and. also, a letter that -- to sydney powell -- that he submitted to the supreme court, documenting --

asking them to look at a report, that she should not a bad access to. suggesting that lawyers in another case caper access to that report, before it was made public. there's a lot of pieces, puzzle pieces if you will, that's just a level of coordination, that ultimately transpired into the tragedy in our capital. our job is to be as transparent as possible. i think everybody job is that. as we seek to connect those dots. >> secretary benson, you said that you kept receipts, that's why you turned over to not only the january six committee, but the department of justice was not something about that material, when you had it last year, that just didn't seem right? was there something that was a red flag, and you thought to yourself, maybe this is something that we have to hold on to, because it may be important later on? >> oh, yeah. as we were going through everything in december, in the aftermath of the vote, our goal was to put a shield over our

voters. remember, this was a period in which people were showing up outside of my home, chanting and calling names in, the middle of the night. they were showing up outside of our state capital building there were so many attacks in our process there were dozens of lawsuits filed. our goal, at that point, was to just guard the vote, which we did. to also, again, save the evidence of what happened, with an eye towards seeking accountability, and also, making sure we were prepared if it ever compared again. i think, the other thing, it's important to remember, at this time, we could not just turn over all of these things to the justice department in december, because, in some ways, there were questions as to whether they were complicit as what was going on. now that we do have --

that can connect the dots that we don't have access to, it's important for us to cooperate in present the evidence, knowing that they will take that and connect further dots, -- nationally coordinated effort to overturn our presidential election. result secretary benson, you said something that actually gave me calls for a pause, it was a concern that you shared that perhaps there was something happening that was complicit with digs -- or members who are pretty high up in the food chain in d.c.. we've now heard the deputy attorney general marie -- this week at the justice department, she's investigating these false slates of electors is there anything that you've heard from the biden justice department about these inquiries, anything additional than we've heard in the media? >> no we know there is an ongoing investigation. our responsibility is to simply

cooperate with the investigation and provide any evidence that they need to further investigate wrongdoings and illegality again, with an eye toward seeking justice,. and that's really our focus i'm really grateful, that at the state level, we can work with federal entities, like the justice department, like the january six committee, who have the ability to connect the dots. what we experience in michigan was not an anomaly. we know, because we've been able to coordinate and turn over these documents, at a federal level, that they can connect these dots that it was happening similarly in other states. so, that national coordination is important with seeking justice, but also to help us pervert if this ever happens again, to similarly guard the vote. which, as you mentioned earlier,

maybe more difficult to do if there are more people who are willing to open the door to the state capital, to let fickle extras in. missy -- >> thank you for being here. we're gonna keep track of what's happening with the doj's investigation. let's turn now to kurt barr della. former spokesman -- also an advisor to the -- kurt, we just heard from secretary benson. we now have a justice department investigation, and the january six committee looking at the fake electors. can you explain quickly how those two bodies coordinate. to make sure that they're staying at each other's way, and advancing in progressing in the investigation. ? >> katie, i think the biggest difference is that the january six committee will be a public body of work while, with the justice department is doing is going to be more private, until they're ready to take action. i would think that the work

being done by the committee, because of this -- because they will have depositions and transcripts, that that will be a bodily of work that will be available to the justice department, as that comes out. back in the day, we would oftentimes enter a lot of things in the official record of the committee, just so that anybody who might want to look at that, from a law enforcement perspective, would have access to that information. i expect the same thing to happen now. >> so, it feels like every day there are some new details coming out about efforts to submit false slates of electors. we heard, it's not just one state, it several states. there could be a lot of coordination between them. how does the january six committee manage such a quickly growing area of inquiry, in addition to the other areas that the committee is already looking into? >> i think this is why it's so important that when they form this committee, they made a point to make abroad. it's not just about january 6th

itself. it's about the events that led up to it. and the aftermath. they get to cover a whole broad spectrum of time, between when the election happened, when january six happened. we're seeing every day these revelations. they are startling. they are scary it is downright unthinkable that we were this close to the edge of having our democracy completely thrown out the window and, that the people that have made this happen, that planned and plotted, and work together to try and have the coup happened, that they're trying to reclaim power right now. this work is so vital to ensure that everybody understands what happened. frankly, when this information comes out, when this investigation is complete, a lot of these people should never be allowed to seek public office. >> kurt, tell me a point in time where the committee has to say, we can't keep getting these documents. we have to start preparing for the hearings -- these public hearings, and a written report there should be generated by the silicon meaty. >> they have enough now where

they can start that hearing process. when we look at some of the subpoenas that we recently issued. we're getting closer and closer to the president foreman investigation stamp, when used on the outside, you saw on the rural. he's on the staff that is not just close to the president. as you get closer inquisitor target, the fact that they're basically on the doorstep of donald trump tells you that they're pretty close to getting done with this investigation and ready for the hearings. they're really pasting the case for what will be a confrontation with donald trump. where trump decides whether he's willing to testify in front of the committee, justice clinton testified in front of the -- four more than 11 hours. >> you and i talked, last, year about the need for the january six committee to get more aggressive. to steal a page from the playbook of that benghazi investigation. do you think the committee has gotten any closer to doing that

in 2022? you talked about the news getting a little bit tighter on donald trump, but is it really going to be that affective, as we saw in the bin gaza investigation? >> i feel like there are two standards that we look at when it comes to these type of hearings. there is what the republicans did, frankly since that sly with benghazi. then there's would happen with the mueller report. how that gets viewed as a dad, in a lot of peoples perspective. the fact that the chairman of the committee, bennie, thompson's come out and said that they are going to be here. there seems to be a timetable that we can all have this laid out that tells me that they're headed in the right direction, that they've heard the chatter that they need to be more aggressive. with six republicans of done recently, they're out there are saying, if they take back congress, they're gonna do investigations. they're gonna unleash up -- >> they're gonna jail people, right? >> they're gonna throw them --

the january six committee, the people on this committee are going to go to jail so, the route served you colored superior not aware of what the stakes are republicans are out there every day making it very clear with the intent to do. democrats have to matchup. >> kurt barr della, as always, thank you for your insight we're just getting started coming up, there is a new witness in the investigation of conservative congressman matt gates, a florida all the details on the other side of this break ther side of ther side of this break it's still the eat fresh refresh™ and subway's refreshing everything it's sweet, it's tangy, it's tender, it never misses. you could say it's the steph curry of footlongs. you could, but i'm not gonna. subway keeps refreshing and refreshing and re...

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right? but it has been over a year since the newark times revealed that matt gates of florida, had alleged corruption, bribery, and sex trafficking. and we don't know a whole lot right now. we did when gates went on tv to

clear the air. >> i'm not the only person on screen right now who has been falsely accused of a terrible sex act. you and i went to darren are about two years ago, i brought mine, and she was actually threatened by the fbi. >> i don't remember the woman that you are speaking of at all. how long has this investigation going on? >> i do not know. >> that was one of the weirdest interviews i've ever conducted. it did not clarify much. >> when you weird out tucker carlson, of all people, you are in uncharted territory. but the investigation does seem to be getting somewhere. his friend, a former gop person in florida, agreed to six counts. including sex trafficking. then he started cooperating with the probe. his ex girlfriend --

she received immunity in order to do some. and then a former associate of gates, reached his own plea deal with the feds. he says that he witnessed firsthand, a lot of behavior, that if anybody saw it, would not think that was a behavior would expect from a united states congressman. he is not just a congressman, he fits on the traditional committee. the congressional body that oversees the justice department. that is running the investigation into possible -- committed by matt gates. this is something that lawyers should avoid. but again, he has had professional -- like in 2019, when a bar called him, unprofessional, reckless, and insensitive. for tweeting not so veiled threats at former trump -- michael cohen.

they say gates needs to be removed from the panel in this investigation. one of the real chances of that happening? and what does it say about this whole mess in terms of our political situation right now? joining me now is that democrats, ted lieu of florida. and the current member of the house just stationary committee. congressman, you've tweeted just this week multiple times that he is entitled to innocence, but he is not entitled to sit on a house judiciary committee that is overseeing the department investigating him for these improprieties. do you worry that the selected member of the house might use this position to interfere in his own criminal probe? >> i thank you katie for your question and it is actually correct. this is wet matt gates does.

he does have his innocence presumed to be innocent. we cannot infer that he is guilty. however, he is not entitled to see it on the committee that is doing oversight on the committee that is investigating him for sex crimes on a minute or. and that's not his only impropriety. he's already attacked our justice from his perch as a member of congress sitting on the committee. so they need to remove him immediately. >> i can't believe i'm even having to ask this question of you, i think it is a sign of our times. but congressman, is there any precedent here for this? a member of congress, being the subject of a doj position, while committing oversight on the doj itself? >> in our history of congress, this seems completely improper. it looks like a clear conflict of interest. and what is remarkable is the

governing silence that you hear from republicans and congress. you see no one calling for him to be removed, even though it's obvious he should not be sitting on the house judiciary committee. and of course, he should be being wrote from this committee. >> so in the access of someone like kevin mccarthy doing the right thing, bench-ing him until there is some kind of conclusion to the investigation. what have you been able to do? what's type of dialogues have you've been having with your fellow members on the judiciary committee on the fact that he should not be sitting there with himself pretty much? >> we know pretty much based on the reporting, that matt gates ex-girlfriend already testified against him. but now you have even more than one witness that will discuss the allegation. that matt gaetz paid to have sex with a minor.

these are very serious charges that lead to long prison sentences. and the justice department -- for matt gates to be sitting there, saying things as the judiciary committee attacking the department. that is completely improper. and he is the only member of congress, i remember a few years ago, that voted against that crackdown on human sex trafficking. so he has been taking a lot of actions that have been improper. >> so matt gates was on steve bannon's podcast this week, let's listen to what he said. >> we are going to take power. and when we do. it's not gonna be the days of paul ryan, and trey -- where the republicans were limp arrested. where they lose their backbone. and failed to send a single subpoena. those are gonna be the days that jim -- and matt gates and marjorie

taylor greene who gets answers of -- and the wuhan institute of technology. >> congressman, that type of vitriol stands in stark contrast to some of the more moderated kind of language that we usually hear coming from the democrats. it really and genders a lot of divisiveness between the two parties. so matt gaetz says this is what is going to happen when the democrats lose the midterms. what is your reaction to what he has said? >> i thought president biden had a very good point last week when he said, what are republicans for? and republicans have not been able to ask for that. we know democrats, people who are building roads, and highways. people who are building schools. people who want to get their health insurance premiums

lowered. but the republican seems like there just for power and revenge. and that's exactly what they want to do. they don't really have an agenda, they want to seize power and enact revenge. and i do not think the american people are gonna vote them in this november. >> while we are on the subject of scorched earth in congress, i do have to say about the case about republican -- there is a group of activists trying to get him disqualified from running for the election, because it would violate the 14th amendment band of interest selection is having office. in your opinion, how connected to the insurrection with a lawmaker have to be, for the 14th amendment to apply? >> the 14th amendment bars any member of congress or senate, from serving in office if they engage in an insurrection or

gave anyone comfort to the insurrectionists. in this case, what we know is that a few weeks after the november of elections, he told members of congress and lightly threaten them. he threatened the officials. he also was at the january 6th rally and riled up the mob. he has taken a lot of actions that could qualify as an insurrectionist. and now you have this person in north carolina, this lawsuit, and he has the answer. he has to provide -- based on the rules. and we look forward to seeing what his responses. >> congressman ted lieu of kyle formula. thank you so much. >> still ahead this hour, as president biden prepares the name is first nominee for the sea prime court, they already china's frame his pick as a --

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of excellence and decency. while i've been studying canada's backgrounds, i've made no decision, except one. the person i will nominate will be somebody with extraordinary qualifications, character, experience and integrity that person will be the first black woman to be ever nominated to the supreme court. >> president biden formally announced just as stephen breyer is in retirement, earlier today he come from that he'll be signed by his promise, but the choice will be a black woman. some conservatives have already responded, as you might expect. complaining that a decision based on race, and gender, will resulted in a, quote, lesser black women justice. rather than admitting how shameful it is that there's never been a african american female on the court, some are

throwing a tantrum, stopping just short of using the phrase, reverse racism. why does it seem to be mostly white men, who are upset that biden's shortlist isn't dominated by the usual list of, white men unfortunately, these are just the opening salvo civil will be a bidder, drawn out confirmation battle if no republican senators cross the aisle to confirm his pick, it is no sure thing that the democrats will be able to get all 50 of their members to ban together, not to mention, there are currently no black women senators to vote for what will be a historic nomination. unless, that is, vice president kamala harris has to step in and break a tie and joining me now to discuss, former senator -- the first black woman to serve in the senate. she also served as a united states ambassador to new zealand and samoa. senator, how does it feel to know that we are on the verge of seeing the first black woman

nominated to the supreme court of the united states. >> to begin with, i want to thank you for having me. this is something near and dear to my heart. i think we should start off thanking justice breyer for his years of faithful service. he was a pragmatic centrist, who went out of his way to build coalitions with people. and, really to avoid the vitriol that we see in today's politics. he was a real consensus builder. he wasn't about party label, he just wanted to do the best thing that he can do for the american people. i want to thank him for his years of loyal service. as to the black women nomination let me start by saying i was the first -- out of 1800 united states senators, i, was the first black woman senator. this is story appointment when

president biden talks about having a black female nominee, he's doing so in the context of history, in which there is never been such a person. i would remind you, i don't want to get in trouble, but i want to remind you that president barack obama did not nominate a black person, male or female. i think a lot of this -- black women fully expected that obama would nominate a black female. he didn't. now, a false to joe biden. he made a commitment during the campaign to do is much, and to put a black woman on the supreme court. it's not just because the person is of color, but because they will bring a lifetime of experience, that other people might not have. precisely because, she is a a, woman and be, an african american woman. that makes a big difference, in

terms of how you see the world. the life experiences you bring to it. that will help the supreme court to be a better court, in which the american people can have confidence. it's not just a matter of -- we have to be -- a democracy, the whole idea is to have everybody's point of view. even when it comes to matters before the supreme court. i think, this is a positive unhealthy thing for the country, i want to commend and congratulate president biden for having the courage to step forward, and say, there's never been a black woman on the supreme court, it's time to fix that. he's going to do that. i'm delighted, all the way around. >> conservatives, though, have already started to say that they are worried about the qualifications of biden's replacement. they didn't seem so worried about qualifications when amy coney barrett was nominated without ever try to case the verdict. what is the right really mean,

when they're questioning the qualifications of a woman of color, who might be nominated for this job? >> they are pulling on some discredited old tropes that say, a, a woman is not smart enough to do this job, be, a person of color is not sworn enough to do this job. they are in between the sexism, and the misogyny, and racism, they should be embarrassed. in this america, we have no place for that kind of racism, no place for that kind of sexism. i have no problem calling it out for what it is. i'm not in politics anymore, i'm a grandmother these days. that's exactly what's going on, we should be ashamed of themselves. america is all of that. iran for the american united states senate -- because president bush had nominated clarence thomas to the supreme court. my whole life experience would've been different, had -- not had been on the court.

if he had not participated, to see that segregation was bad, to say that we had to break out of discriminations in schools and accommodations alike. my whole life pattern would've been different, but for thurgood marshall when bush nominated clarence thomas -- i said, this is not our incumbent senator and, voter support i, don't that was wrong. -- in spite of people laughing at me she's not qualified, who did you think she is, blah blah i had a lot of graffiti, even a state legislator for ten years. i had served in office before. i was just disqualified as any of the mill candidates who are running, but they would assume to have all together, because they were white and male, and i had money and i don't have any of that.

we have to make our democracy live up to his promise, that's where this nomination is going to help you. >> i read somewhere, when you ran, you were so angry about allen davis supporting the clarence thomas nomination, that that was the year of the woman i like to say, to you, that perhaps, this is going to be the year of the woman of color. thank you for your time. >> coming up, virginia's governor set up a tip line for parents to rat on teachers who cover divisive topics, but the tips flooding in may not be when he expected will be back after this break. bac bac after this keep your number. visit your local t-mobile store today. ♪

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parent hotline, where the parents can report -- divisive subjects. what could be possibly mean by that? i mean, while some people, including singer and activist, john legend, urge parents to flood the tip line to complain that is history is being silenced human rights lawyer, customer she'd, had different advice. >> all right, guys. the republican governor of virginia has a new hotline where you can send tips in case a teacher is teaching about racism in school. so, whatever you do, do not send fake tips. that would be a mature. >> you can imagine what happened next. rashida shared some of the emails that explicitly went against his sage counsel. >> yesterday, i learned that a virginia teacher said that people have different colored skin, which is outrageous because my son didn't see color he does now thanks to your tv.

miss frizzle turn my wife son into a bug, give me my son back. i'll be dumbledore was teaching a full-blooded wizards to discriminate against my blood, fire him immediately from, tom riddell >> laughing in the face of authoritarianism can be necessary and healthy, but where she'd also highlights a tool to use against petty authoritarianism grassroots action through social media. remember, it was tiktokers who spoiled trump campaign event, by registering for thousands of rally tickets, and images didn't show up. all of these emails to governor -- they're not demonstrating how abuse of his government outrages, they might just help make the tip line itself useless coming up, forced to pick, spotify -- instead of a two-time rock and roll hall of fame inductee priorities, right? we'll be back right after the

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go elsewhere if they want to listen to neil young. the music -- removed the rock legends songs from their platform as he requested. he wants joe rogan to be removed as he spreads dangerous

covid-19 information to his audience. he has been pulled from platforms like youtube for this disinformation but -- those rogan episodes that got polled? the gop congressman asked one of the transcripts to be read into congressional records. but he is not the only spreader of this information with a large reach. they have suspended -- for his covid misinformation and yet he remains a fox news stable all. -- on tucker carlson's show. now it's one thing to have pundits spreading this misinformation, but what do you do when public officials, like florida senator general, failed to ask serve basic questions about the vaccines. we'll tell you what he said. after the break. ccines we'll tell you what he said.

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appeared before lawmakers in a confirmation hearing yesterday. he was acted about the effectiveness of covid vaccines. his response was underwhelming. listen for yourself. >> vaccines in, going against a pandemic like covid-19, are effective. >> thank you for your question,

senator. again, i would say that the question is a scientific one. it is one that is answered with data. so, the question is informed by data on specific outcomes, and specific therapies. so that's the scientific question. >> just a couple more follow-up. it's just a yes or no. do vaccines work in fighting against covid-19? yes or no. >> senator, as a scientist, i'm compelled to answer the scientific question. and i'd be happy to answer any specific scientific question that you have related to vaccines and covid-19.

>> scientifically, do vaccines work against preventing covid-19? yes or no. >> thank you again senator. yes or no questions are not that easy to find in science. so i understand, some clarity about your question at this point, when i would say is the most commonly used vaccines in the united states would be the pfizer product, and the product that was developed by moderna. they have been shown to have relatively hyper effectiveness and the prevention against hospitalization and death. overtime, relatively low protection from infection.

>> it took him two minutes, but he finally got there eventually. i mean, after two lengthy worth five lids he gave an answer. but there was criticism. so we reached out to his office about the hearing. one official told us, what he said was true and of the based on the available evidence. the other said, there is a difference between answering a question and the recipient of the answer simply not liking the answer. joining us now is doctor bush a blast off. a doctor who actually went to metal school with's florida surgeon general. he actually walked out of that hearing because he wasn't getting the answers that they needed. did he give a true and complete answer based on the available evidence? >> thank you so much for having me. watching that was mortifying

and cringe worthy. as you said, it took him two minutes to actually get the answer. when we know that there is covid data showing that vaccines are highly effective against the worst outcomes. the thing is, he was being of a sieve in answering the questions. and he is a public health official. it's one thing for a politician to answer the question but for a health official to answer that question, it is incredibly dangerous. i am concerned that his affective lead going to influence the decisions in office. >> is there any recourse against him for this kind of stuff? >> so there is. i think that medical, societies and boards need to consider suspending his license. this kind of rhetoric is incredibly egregious. people will listen. people will not be vaccinated. and not only that, he is

encouraging these antibodies that we have data that shows that is not effective. so people who are hospitalized, or about to be hospitalized with covid-19, are gonna have ineffective education. he will be implicated in their death if they do not do well after these medications. >> yes, in that hearing he actually mentioned the antibody treatment. he's been really pushing the return of those even though the fda has said that it is not effective against the omicron variant, the dominant strain in the u.s.. and -- have said that the treatments are not effective against omicron. speaking of omicron, we now heard that there is a new sub variant from omicron. what do we know about the new severe intense should we be concerned about? it >> there are many areas of concern. the new variant is more contagious than the original

omicron variant. we know that there is a -- in that it is outcompeting the first variant in some of those locations. we still have many questions about it. we also need to know whether or not people who had omicron could be reinfected with this be two variants. it's still too important to know. too early to know. but that's why we need to have a very thorough and robust surveillance this time. to see how quickly it is spreading. how quickly it can be implicated in the rising cases, as well as death. >> well i know you share my sentiment that we should get everyone out there vaccinated, and boosted, in order to protect immunity against some variant. thank you so much for your time this evening. that does it for me, thanks for watching the mehdi hasan show. join us on instagram, twitter, tiktok, and facebook. he will be back here tonight at 8 pm. right here on msnbc.

have a good one. msnbc. have a good one. first up on msnbc, an historic winter storm shuts down roads and air travel and knocks out power to tens of thousands in new england. and the wind and the extreme cold aren't going anywhere, as crews plow the streets and try to get the lights back on. >> i mean, it's windy, it's snowy, i'm 6-feet something and the snow is up to my knees. it's about 2 feet, probably going to 3 feet. you really can't do anything.