attorney's decision to prosecute and to make major decisions about the case. not the victim's family. >> danny, thank you so much. thanks to pete williams, too. will have more on this. that does it for us. "deadline: white house" starts right now. ♪♪ 4:00 in new york. the ex-president having his damn right i called the code red moment last night. confessing to the whole thing. a statement that reveals he knows he did not win the 2020 election. he simply wanted mike pence to overturn the real result of the election and most alarmingly, the commitment to the plot he hatched to cling to power. the admission about donald trump's role in the coup plot was not hidden. nor coerced. the admission of guilt that the

campaign of joe biden to transfer to the head of state was communicated in a statement from the defeated ex-president himself. only regret in fact is that it failed. last night in a statement blasting bipartisan efforts to reform the electoral count act trump said, quote, actually what they are saying is that mike pence did have the right to change the outcome and they now want to take that right away. unfortunately he mike pence didn't exercise that power. he could have overturned the election. the law trump is fixated on wouldn't matter to him at all unless he planned to run the play again next time which is increasingly likely unless republican leaders object to anything. and that's why 1/6 committee member adam kinzinger focused on the party tweeting this. quote, this is an admission and a massively un-american statement why it is time for every republican leader to pick

a side. trump or the constitution. there is no middle on defending our nation anymore. trump's platform came into ugly public view this weekend. trump embraced pardons for the rioters including extremists. incitement of political violence. and ongoing attempts to rig the elections at the local, state and federal level. we'll start with the incitement to violence. donald trump in his remarks smeared prosecutors in fulton county, georgia, and new york. he threatened them with civil unrest saying if these radical, vicious, racist prosecutors do anything wrong or illegal i hope we will have in this country the biggest protest we have ever had. ginn what happened the last time donald trump urged people to

protest, given the ongoing domestic terror threat fueled by his election fraud conspiracies prosecutors in georgia are leaving nothing to chance. from "washington post," weighing to bring criminal charges against former president trump is seeking fbi help to secure a county courthouse in the wake of alarming rhetoric from trumpl this weekend. quote we must work together to keep the public safe and ensure that we do not have a tragedy in atlanta similar to that what happened at the u.s. capitol january 6th. the power of trump's rhetoric to radicalize and incite supporters. january 6th vice chair liz cheney puts it trump uses language he knows caused the

january 6 violence. some have been charged with seditious conspiracy. threatens prosecutors and admits he was attempting to overturn the election. he would do it all again if given the chance. trying to shake the republican colleagues out of their stupor and to gird the fellow committee members for the brutal political battles ahead. tim miller is here. also betsy woodruff-span and former senator claire mccaskill. there are few political events for which i will always remember where i was but i remember where i was and what i was doing when donald trump confessed to the whole plot, tim miller. >> so, sometimes it is one of those i feel like i'm crazy pills moments. why aren't all the other shows beginning with this admission?

right? why wasn't this banner front page news on the front page of the national outlets this morning? i think what's so refreshing about the kinzinger and cheney comments saying what we see to be true with our eyes. this is absolutely insane, unconscionable, unprecedented. the former president of the united states admitted in a statement to overturn a free and fair democratic election to keep himself in power. he tried to do it. there was a plot to do it and that his disappointment is that it didn't work. this would have been unimaginable if we had gotten together eight years ago to discuss the worse-case fears. the idea that the president tried to steal an election and it wouldn't have crossed our minds and then admits it yesterday and seems like with a few exceptions folks are going on as business as usual. the republican party at the top

of that list and this guy had a rally over the weekend with the governor of texas, lieutenant governor of texas. supposed good republicans like dan crenshaw who recently got press for calling out the grifters in the party and shows up to the king grifter's rally in texas when it's an insurrectionist incitement and they want it to go away and so thank goodness that there are cheney and kinzinger on the committee and investigation into all of this. but i would hope that we would have more outrage today than it seems like we do. >> what's so clear to me, liz cheney talks of trumpism as a threat that it is to the homeland on an evidence based manner. she is the only one that listens to trump appointee christopher wray testifying that 1/6 was

domestic terrorism. head cruz believed for that while before he got the 8:00 p.m. booking on fox and then uses the language of recidivism saying this. he'd do it all again if given the chance. i think the only tweak there is he is doing it all again because republicans are giving him a chance. and i wonder, betsy, what you think it says about the committee that he is so emboldened. >> it certainly shows that the former president is frustrated and unnerved about the work this committee is doing and it points to something that i've heard from multiple congressional republican sources which is that they're having real buyer's remorse about the way they treated the creation of capitol hill's investigation into the january 6th attack on the capitol. the fact that mccarthy pulled the republicans off that committee so that the only republicans on it now are republicans who are opposed to

trump, that reduced the visibility that the congressional republicans had into the works that the committee was doing and rejected the deal that speaker pelosi and congressman catco worked out to end a probe a month ago. in retrospect that's making -- those facts are making republicans feel a little uncomfortable athe way that this investigation is going, not just trump but also trump's allies on capitol hill seeing it increasingly as more of a problem. one document that the select committee obtained is an early draft of a speech that president trump, then president trump delivered january 7th, the day after the attack. the draft of that speech was titled remarks on national healing and there couldn't be a bigger difference between that draft speech and the things that he's saying now.

on january 7th and in that draft trump said he disavowed the people that attacked the capital. he said there would be a new administration. took a conciliatory tone. now it's the polar opposite of what he said the day after the attack and just shows the chasms between where people in the trump administration or some of the folks close to the president were at january 7th, frankly, where many republican leaders were at on january 7th versus where trump and most of the republican party or many of the republican allies are at right now. the change is immense. >> claire, i appreciate tim's comments and not seen anything else today so i'm surprised to hear that this isn't blaring news. i think what liz and kinzinger do to the rest of the republicans is make abundant clear that they, too, will be on

record as supporting someone who's stated his second presidency agenda. it will include pardoning the rioters, even those charged with seditious conspiracy, includes more incitement of more political violence and it includes winning elections through left the. that's the platform and why he doesn't want the electoral count act to pass and threatens him because it has some bipartisan support. let me show you what susan collins said about the potential for supporting the insurrection in chief again in the future. >> can you imagine any circumstances to support his election in 2024? >> we're a long ways from 2024. but let me say this. i do not think that president trump should have made that pledge to do pardons.

we should let the judicial process proceed. >> you say -- >> january 6 was a dark day in our history. >> it was. you voted to convict president trump. why can't you rule out supporting him in 2024? >> certainly it's not likely given the many other qualified candidates that we have that have expressed interest in running. so it's very unlikely. >> so what? putt her down as a tba. she can check and check see if any of the other qualified people can get within distance? trump towers. he is atop the polls. collins is why donald trump remains a threat. a republican party that cannot deal with the cancer, not just in the republican party, but to our democracy is the reason we have trumpism. >> i got to tell you the truth. the last person i would probably

pick on in that regard is susan because she voted to impeach him at least. to convict him on the impeachment. there are other republicans that deserve our disgust over the failure to call out this guy and the things he says and the things he does. and as a quick aside before i make the point i want to make i want to congratulate tim for not beginning his talk today with a taunt about his team beating the chiefs yesterday. congratulations to the bengals, tim. congratulations to a team that was strong when they had to be and wish them the best of luck going forward. the point about the january 6 committee is this. here's the most important job right now. communicating to the people in america that need to hear the evidence. they have gathered a lot of evidence at this point. they won the court battles.

they have got so much damning evidence about what trump did and failed to do that the people that decide elections it would impact them. how do we get that information to those americans? because the trump supporters are calcified around the media outlets and frankly the many of us who could never consider donald trump for anything are convinced that he is a very bad guy for the united states of america. it is the people that voted for barack obama and donald trump. it is the people kind of abandoning trump right now. the numbers have shrunk in recent polling. so i think he's going to have a really intense group of supporters but there's a lot of people out there that need to hear the facts in a straightforward way. that's what the committee should

focus on. how to present the information cleanly and to the people that need to hear it instead of people who have completely made up the minds already and won't let the facts interfere. >> i don't feel disgust for susan collins but looking at a security threat and trumpism and the intersection it flourishes because people are like maybe i can vote for him. between him and the democrat i might have to vote for him. tim writes donald trump can't be killed because the rest of the republican party is unwilling to take on the political pain to kill him. this is the obvious political reality for nearly seven years now. if someone is politically safe as collins won't stick her neck out what's the hope others will not just privately hope but to

wage a scorched earth campaign on behalf of the alternative? >> yeah. at first, senator, sorry for the dunking tweet about the chiefs. i got caught up in the moment. i did not decide not to wear my t-shirt on the show today. i didn't need to rub it in further. >> appreciate it. appreciate it. >> as far as collins is concerned, i just -- look. susan collins isn't up again until 2026. donald trump tried to steal the election. he admitted to it. he tried a coup. this isn't a game. right? if someone asked you would you support someone that tried to end the democracy for president in 2024, you say no. that was an easy question for her to answer. i think it's just -- she is picked on because she is on tv yesterday and emblematic of the other republicans treating this,

putting the heads in the sand. look at twitter it is all democrats and kinzinger and cheney and the media. republicans want it to go away except for the trump super fans. the quasi normal republicans who remain in the senate don't want to talk about this. and this is the same thing. it is groundhog day. susan collins has been through this for years. 2016 we don't want do go after him. couldn't support hillary clinton. couldn't impeach him over the ukraine drug deal and couldn't convict him. a stern speech on the senate floor. we could have been done with him if the republicans who know better had ever just been willing to take on political pain. that's what this comes down to. right? to say you're voting hillary clinton would have caused political pain.

to gather 17 republicans to convict him would have caused the party political pain. but that's how to your point earlier, you need chemo. it's painful. it requires having to suffer on yourself for part of the greater good and no -- not no. small handful of republicans. liz cheney. hutchinson on the weekend. way too few. >> i want to move on to the security threat. the oh thing we miss is what the base hears and the extremists told to stand by and stand back here. i want to follow up on this point. the republicans are revealed. we now know susan collins, the great moderate hope in the republican party, cares more

about the republican party than democracy. i think it's time to move on from the emotional reaction when republicans reveal themselves, tim. >> yeah. i don't need to give a long answer. that's the point. if susan collins can't get there what's the hope that the rest of the party to actually prioritize democracy? i think that's why it's so stark. you would think that somebody like collins could say, nope, i won't support that guy in 2024 and the fact she can't reflects how dire the situation is across the party. >> i think if you're not in the republican party you don't understand on the ideology spectrum collins is right here next to the middle but on the right side. liz cheney is over here like in russia 12 time zones away. still the old u.s.s.r. and liz cheney sees this with donald

trump. this is tasha adams. when asked about donald trump's call to more protests in the street. >> they hear civil war. you know? to this them this is the civil war they have been waiting for. a lot of these guys live for this. they have been waiting for this. they have been -- spent their lives preparing for it. they look forward to it. there's an air of dispoint when it doesn't turn violent with these guys i think. >> so we can take them by their word. right? the wife of -- take them by the actions. we watched it unfold on live tv. they have been waiting for a civil war and in the words of one person who understands this movement. the wife of the oath keepers leader they heard the call. >> there is no question that the argument that many of trump's

supporters was not an argument that found foundation among the supporters. in court filing after court filing people who have been convicted orb pleaded guilty to crimes on january 6 defended themselves by saying that they thought they were doing what the president wanted them to do. people heard the president call for this type of activity. they heard him use incendiary rhetoric and took it literally an were involved in this horrifying domestic terror attack. the argument that many of the president's republican supporters that people made, that is not an argument that worked when the president,

former president's rhetoric most consequential and something that republicans on capitol hill and considering running for office have to grapple with. what do they do when they tried to explain away the comments but when they realize at the same time there's a stack of court filings showing people who committed crimes because they took trump at his word. >> we have got the oath keepers or at least the spouse of a lead irwho understands explaining what they hear. we have also got federal judges. former president trump continues to make forceful public comments about a stolen election. sump comments reflect the continued threat posed by individuals. an insurrectionist. taking up arms drum beat did not fade away.

it's repeated daily, not to mention the near-daily full my nations of the former president. defendants promise to take action in the future cannot be dismissed given that a single source of information continues the propagate the lie that inspired the attack on a near daily basis. judge amy berman jackson. what pressure is bearing down on the justice department at this point with a very public admission of what trump wanted and saw january 6 and pence's role in it? >> the level of pressure that the justice department is facing is only going to grow with each passing day in part because of the new information that's getting uncovered and brought together by the select committee. one of the biggest pressure points doj is likely to face is going to vol the fraudulent electors.

so-calledal tern nat electors. the doj already faces calls and will likely face growing calls to consider criminal prosecution against the people involved in producing the documents. let's remember doj is still working on deciding whether or not to bring charges against former chief of staff mark meadows. that's a deliberation process taking longer than the deliberations regarding whether or not to bring charges against steve bannon. the processes can take quite a long time for doj. the justice department doesn't like feeling like it's under the gun. prosecutors don't like feeling like they have to race with the politically sensitive decisions and not likely to lessen the calls for doj to look seriously at criminal charges not just against the people committing violent crimes at the capitol building but also at people associated with it. sometimes in a less direct way.

>> thank you for starting us off. we'll get to football therapy later in the show. when we come back, there'll be more on all of this. the ex-president's embrace of the insurrectionists and what sounded like a call to the return to the capitol. president biden's vow to nominate a first black woman to the supreme court with cynicism, racism and comments beginning today before the tyrod taylor put together an official short list. running as a republican to some these days that means encouraging the supporters to break the laws and show up at the polls armed. those stories and more when we continue. don't go anywhere. med. those stories and more when we continue don't go anywhere.

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as we have been discussing the consequences of republicans rehabilitating the ex-president became clear this weekend as donald trump among other things embraced the insurrectionists who attacked the u.s. capitol with a promise to pardon them should he get elected in 2024. "the washington post" reporting on the reaction from the gop. several prominent republicans pushed back against trump's comments sunday calling the suggestion of clemency of those in the capitol riot inappropriate. i don't want to reinforce that defiling the capitol was okay. the senator said he hopes that stormed the building go to jail and get the book thrown at them

because they deserve it. graham did more than just about play republican than mccarthy to resurrect the political life of the man that incited those that defiled the capitol. at the insurrection. just two weeks ago he referred to donald trump as the leader of the gop. and threatened to withhold support of mitch mcconnell. mcconnell didn't kiss and make up with donald trump. joining us is madeleine dean, claire is still here. she's made good points about what the committee itself needs to do with all of this unbelievably juicy evidence. but i want to ask you about this gap republicans seem to want to stand in. the people who have everything to do with trump supporters defiling the capitol are the people on january 6th and 7th and 8th and 9th and 10th and 11th and 12th did nothing and

mad that they didn't get an ice cream cone. how do you process susan collins going on national tv saying i don't think i'll vote for him but i won't rule it out. what? >> oh, as i sat here preparing for this interview with you and very importantly with senator mccaskill i thought, what? i hold u.s. senators in the highest of regard. it was one year ago that i was working with the team of impeachment managers to take the trial to the u.s. senate including senator collins. i hold them in the highest regard. to tell us the truth. i am stunned by senator collins' inability with clarity as a leader in her party, as a leader in her state, as a leader in this country to say enough is enough. the former president admitted his ambition, the intent. he wanted the vice president to

overthrow, overturn a free and fair election so that he would retain power. so i guess i'm a little bit at a loss for the correct words but maybe senator mccaskill can help me. what do we do when we can't have the faith to just simply call out the truth? it is truth over lies. constitution over donald trump. where are we going to go? >> there is a long list of senators who have been a bitter disappointment in their failure to uphold the rule of law and they have lost any high ground to ever talk about the rule of law or to do what they used to do some regularity. i remember the days to get out the constitutions and wave them around. now they're all stomping on the constitution. and speaking of the rule of law, congresswoman, i want to ask you about what you're hearing as you

all talk among yourselves about the effort to bring mccarthy in front of the committee. to subpoena mccarthy. clearly he is not cooperating. clearly we know he had relevant conversations with trump on january 6th. clearly we know he reported that conversation to other people. the committee has heard this second hand or what you or i would call in the courtroom hearsay. it is time to get the witness under oath in front of a committee of his peers to say what he heard and what he did that day. what is happening on the effort to subpoena congressman mccarthy in front of that committee? >> well, i don't have the inside scoop. as close as i am with raskin and the other members, i'm letting them do the work but i share your passion to make sure that mr. mccarthy is required to come before us. i said that he ought to volunteer to come before us.

let's remember what he witnessed and suffered, senator collins witnessed and suffered. an insurrection where any one of us could have been, would have been killed but for the bravery of the capitol police. he owes it to the public, to the history books to say exactly what he knows, what did he know and when did he speak with the president and what influence did he have over shutting down the insurrection? what influence did he have in the planning for it? what's incredibly worrisome over the statements over the weekend is not that he's just recalling tragically his loss and wished that pence overturn ds the free and fair election but calling for protests and violence in atlanta, in new york should he or the businesses or the family members be prosecuted. this is not once and done. this is a danger that continues

to our democracy, our country and it's time for citizens and elected republicans to choose. adam kinzinger said it is time to choose. i think it is more than a year, as much as five years. are you just faithful to one failed, sick president, former president? are you faithful to the rule of law? to the democracy? to this country? it's to me such an easy choice. senator, somehow, some day can i sit down with you and you'll explain why so many of your former colleagues and my colleagues struggle with the truth? >> if i could explain it to you i would do it right now. believe me. it is inexplicable to me. people i knew well and worked with that they're not standing up strongly and rejecting especially in light of the statement he put out over the

weekend to know all pretense is gone. he said that pence should have overturned the election. that was what the former president's own words were. so it is hard for me to understand. i think it is time for the journalists to go back and get everyone on the record. are you okay with that statement? get them all to wiggle and waddle and wiggle and waddle and hide under the desks. >> at this point i don't know what's left for them to reveal. trump revealed himself. watching liz cheney. i worked with her after 9/11 and for the politically polarizing years and decisions that followed. liz cheney is cheating trumpism as the threat that christopher wray told us that it is. it is a threat, ongoing, renewed and homeland security bulletins multiple times and the difference between how liz

cheney is looking at trumpism and trump is that unless you hold the person at the top the head of the fish or however the mafia sort of cliches go, everyone underneath thinks that they can operate with immunity and the importance of holding trump accountable is so the steven millers and mark meadows of the world see a president is not above the law trying to illegally overturn the will of the country in not just any country but what is supposed to be the greater democracy in the world. i said this at the top of the show. we have to stop covering it with disappointment and bewilderment. it's looked at through a political lens and not a security lens. i wonder if you think the committee is trained on making the arguments about the security situation and the threats that trumpism imposes. >> i know that they are and i

think when you take a look at the full statements of the former president over the weekend, whether dangling the pardons and then some republicans trying to say if they would support him, this committee understands very clearly the threat to the democracy. the ongoing threat. we have said it all along. this is aing on threat. you don't try an insurrection once again and go home. one heard the word civil war. so many citizens are so misled by the former president and elected republicans in the house and the senate that they believe it would be right to go to violence to uphold this set of lies. this committee gets exactly what is at take. we are coming up on the one-year anniversary, february 13th the one-year anniversary of the end of the trial in the senate.

it was a very solemn time as you know with just seven republican senators seeing the truth for what it was. and not being blinded by political pour. i can't imagine a graver time for our country and i hope every elected official says there's one thing more important than this single guy and his lies. our democracy. where my grandchildren and their children. that's what we are here for. our democracy. our fragile, precious democracy. >> and sadly there are only two that see it that way. congresswoman, thank you so much for spending time with us. he doesn't have an official short list yet. the republicans are decided on president biden's decision to pick a black woman for the open seat on the supreme court. that story's next. story's next.

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americans i don't give a damn about you. >> the irony is the supreme court is at the same time hearing cases about this sort of affirmative racial discrimination and while adding someone who's the beneficiary of this sort of quota. the majority of the court may be saying writ large it's unconstitutional. we'll see how that irony works out. >> i guess white men doing what they do. a white house spokesperson pushed back against the wicker suggestion him in the second clip of affirmative action with president ronald reagan's promise to elect a woman candidate and saying that amy coney-barrett was an inspiration

for his daughters and granddaughters. cecile richardson and kimberly story. claire is still here. cecile, i don't know where to start. this is so amazing. i don't remember any of them freaking out when joe biden was one of seven democrats on a primary stage and made the promise two years ago i think. what's happening? >> i just think we are seeing a republican party that is so far gone. on so many issues. i guess what i would rather focus on is what an exciting moment this is. i think this commitment to finally have a representation including a black woman on the supreme court is historic. i think it's an opportunity also for all the people that work so hard to elect joe biden and kamala harris to be reminded why

elections matter and how much difference it can make particularly with the supreme court so dominated by trump appointees put on in the most partisan fashion. i guess rather that focus on the hypocrisy of the republican party i would like to think about how energizing this is for millions of people in this country and what an opportunity it is. >> kim, your thoughts? >> yeah. i think, you know, we have seen what a terrible scourge the systemic denial of opportunities for white people to be considered for positions on the judiciary has had. in this country. i mean look. i think that it is really remarkable when republicans have -- we have talked about this a lot very effectively been able to campaign on the issue of the federal judiciary and work hard to tilt that ideologically to the right for years to

suddenly now when the president vows to nominate a black woman to the supreme court decry unfairness. but we have seen both the racialization of politics and the politicization of race happen particularly coming from the republican side for years now, whether it's calling black lives matter protesters terrorists. this is par for the course. this is something that i was expecting. i think the white house was expecting it, too. >> claire, what is your sense of how this process which is historic, an incredible opportunity for the white house and republicans who embraced a president and i think he outsourced the process to the federalist society and then pro-life and committed to overturned roe v. wade and a small borks of people for trump

to consider and now half the country's female. the idea that this is alarming or offputting to republican men is so bizarre to me. >> yeah. i remember republicans using the excuse that, well, trump gave us a list of the people to appoint to the supreme court before he was elected. so it wasn't even saying i'm going to appoint a woman or a black woman. it was here are the names of the people i will pick someone from this list. >> o'connell carried it in his pocket. are you voting for that buffoon? he would say yeah because of this. you're right. >> exactly. that's called exclusion. what's going to happen here, i couldn't agree with my friend and i missed seeing her more

often, is that this is going to be a moment of inspiration because the woman to be nominated is going to be amazing. and she is going to do an amazing job and have amazing qualifications. and what's going to happen is there is a group of senators that voting no on every single biden appointment. they aren't looking at the people. they aren't bothering to look at the resumes. they try to figure out questions to get them on a viral moment to raise money in the questioning the judiciary committee. but there will also be republicans i predict that will be blown away by how amazingly qualified the nominee will be and will be inspired and i think that i'm going to be cautiously optimistic that we get some bipartisan support for this particular nominee. >> we're going to keep this going. i want to ask about what is one of the most pressing things in front of this court. their commitment to overturning roe versus wade. don't go anywhere. g

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party. justice sotomayor has not said it exactly that way, but she's talked about taking away a right, one that women have had for 49 years. what are your thoughts as this kind of sinks in? >> well, it's -- yes, i think it's really important to recognize that this is not a theoretical issue anymore. not only is the state of mississippi, of course, the case is before the supreme court, but in my home state of texas, essentially, access to safe and legal abortion is almost a thing of the past. after six weeks, you can no longer get an abortion in texas, and of course, this is affecting millions and millions of women in this state. i think it's another indication of how far out of touch and out of step the republican party is with the people in this country. 80%, according to the gallup poll, of people in this country believe that decisions about pregnancy should be made by the woman, not by government, and by

politicians. in our own polling at american bridge, it showed the same thing and that for independent women, republican women, this is very distressing, it's where they find -- they feel like the republican party has completely lost touch. and you know, just as senator mccaskill made a really good point about a united states senator voting against the first black woman to be nominated for the supreme court, that really shows how far out of step they are, and i think the same thing is held true when you see now republican governors, republican state legislatures across this country rushing to pass abortion bans with the hope that the supreme court overturns roe and they have the chance to now end safe and legal abortion in their state. it is incredibly distressing, and it's going to be distressing for people all across the political spectrum. >> and that's the political analysis, and i think it's spot on, cecile, but the reality is that with all the political power republicans have, they're

going to do a whole lot of harm to women in their lives. what do we do for them? >> no, i mean, that's the thing -- and i know, nicole, you and i have talked about this. before abortion existed, before roe vs. wade, it was simply unsafe and illegal and happened in back alleys, and of course doctors still tell us, that did the rotations at the time when they were in medical school, young, healthy women were dying in emergency rooms across the country before roe passed and before abortion became legal. of course, now, the problem that we all know what's going to happen and what's already happening in texas is that women who live in rural areas, women who have -- work at low-wage jobs where they can't take off a week and fly to new york or go to some other state, young women, women on college campuses, women of color, they are disproportionately being impacted by this ban in texas, and they will be across the

country. and it's really incredible. i mean, you know, i was just reading a brookings institute report about how much legalizing abortion impacted the ability of women to plan their families, finish school, get into the workforce, and this decision, if this supreme court overturns roe, the impact is going to be devastating. >> kim, you know, that's the real world sort of reality of life in america in 2022, at least for women. what is your sense of whether this can sustain our very overloaded and overwhelmed political interests and have a real impact in 2022 and 2024? >> i think that's really hard. i think that's an open question, especially considering that it's not as if, as cecile points out very well, that the threat to the precedent of roe v. wade is the beginning of this. this is sort of the end game. states have been passing laws for the better part of the

decade, really, right now, there are laws in place called trigger laws that will go into place the moment that that precedent is overturned. and i think that people have not appreciated the threat, how far along that threat is. i'm not sure that even if they do respond in this election that that will be -- that it won't be too little, too late. >> i think that's the fear. what a privilege to speak to all three of you. cecile richards, kim atkins stohr and claire, thank you for spending time with us today. the next hour of "deadline white house" starts after a quick break. deadline white house" starts after a white house" starts after a quick break. i don't know. i think they look good, man. mm, smooth. uh, they are a little tight. like, too tight? might just need to break 'em in a little bit. you don't want 'em too loose. for those who were born to ride there's progressive. with 24/7 roadside assistance. -okay. think i'm gonna wear these home. -excellent choice.

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♪♪ if you see something you don't like happening with the machines, if you see something going on, apply. >> the second amendment is there. the founders put it there to protect all the others, and it says the people have the right to stop what's going on.

the idea is to do this peacefully. that's ideal. but the american people, if you can't change the tide, we can be hearing a lot more. so, you ask, what can we do? show up. >> hi again, everyone, it's 5:00 in new york. welcome to the republican rules for voting in america in 2022. where tampering with voting equipment by unplugging the machines is just like rebooting a cable box and bringing guns to polling sites is encouraged by members and aspiring leaders of one of the country's two political parties. those two men there were ryan kelley and mike detmer, republicans running to be the governor of michigan and michigan state senate respectively and even though there was no voter fraud in michigan, even though the system in michigan worked and multiple recounts proved that the vote in michigan was tabulated

correctly, republicans there are still using the lie about election fraud to justify doing anything and everything they can to win and hold on to power, including break the law, apparently, because in her tweet, responding to kelley and detmer's claims, michigan's attorney general, dana nessel, points this out. unauthorized personnel tampering with election devices and the use of firearms to intimidate voters is illegal. engaging in such conduct will result in arrest and prosecution. she questions whether they will face any consequences, adding this. quote, will the michigan gop condemn the encouragement of felonious acts or is this cool now? from the past year, we know what is cool now in the eyes of the gop when it comes to voting and elections is denying the truth about the result of the election that joe biden won the presidency. enacting laws to suppress and subvert the vote and installing

loyalists in the offices that oversee our elections. on that last point, "the new york times" has some incredible brand-new reporting. quote, nearly 2,000 republicans who have publicly questioned or disputed the results of the 2020 election are running for secretary of state across the country. in some cases, after being directly encouraged by allies of former president trump. their candidacies are alarming watchdog groups. democrats and some fellow republicans who worry that these trump supporters, if elected to posts that exist largely to safe guard and administer the democratic process, would weaponize those offices to undermine it, whether by subverting an election outright or by sowing doubts about any local, state, or federal elections their party loses. those secretary of state campaigns are happening as republicans and state legislatures continue their anti-democratic policy endeavors. two dozen bills were put forward by republicans in arizona this month that would significantly change the state's electoral

processes, including a measure that would require the state legislature to convene after primary and general elections to review the ballot counting process and decide whether they, quote, shall accept or reject the election results. scary. last week, an appellate court in pennsylvania handed at least a temporary win to republicans by finding the state's expansive mail-in voting law unconstitutional. pennsylvania's governor and a.g., who are both democrats, have already said they will appeal the ruling. the ongoing battle to protect free and fair elections is where we start this hour with some of our favorite reporters and friends. errin haines is back. also joining us, frank figliuzzi, a former fbi assistant director for counterintelligence. and the aforementioned michigan attorney general, dana nessel, is here. madam attorney general, first, tell me, we'll get into whether or not there are questions of criminality, but is this standard rhetoric on the

election denial gop running for office in michigan side? >> it is now. and in fact, i specifically asked that the michigan republican party denounce and condemn the language of this candidate for governor and candidate for state senate and they specifically refused to, and in fact, i have three opponents running against me for michigan attorney general who would be charged with enforcing election laws. they have remained completely silent on this. and that is terrifying. >> and just on the acts themselves, so, these are aspiring politicians telling people to pull out the plugs on voting machines. the crime seems pretty obvious, right, tampering with election equipment. there's some audacity, though, right, to the people who are trying to rig the election counting to be telling their supporters to rig the ability to count votes.

where does that come from? >> well, i think it's very obvious where it comes from. it comes all the way from the leader of their party, the former president of the united states of america. he, of course, you know, just in the last few days, has made a number of indications that, quite honestly, i think, you know, would play into a potential charge of seditious conspiracy and perhaps other charges as well, but when you have somebody who's all the way up the food chain, and is the leader of the party, and he's clearly saying the quiet part out loud, and talking openly about committing incredibly serious election law related crimes, and crimes against the united states government, i don't think it's a stretch when you see people who are his followers who are doing and saying the exact same thing. >> can you speak to what you

hear when you talk about, you know, republican aspiring politician telling a room full of, i guess, potential supporters or whomever was in the room, to come to the polls armed? what about that concerns you? >> well, i mean, we were concerned about this during the 2020 election, and in fact, i was so concerned that i authored a 16-page memorandum that we sent to all the county prosecutors, the michigan state police, the sheriff's association and all the municipal police departments really outlining what each and every law said in regard to any effort to intimidate, threaten, or deter a person from voting. and we wanted to make that exceptionally clear because we were so concerned about these events transpiring. now, fortunately, none of that happened. we had a very peaceful election day, even though we set up at my office a 24-hour hotline just to be ready in the event that those

incidences occurred. they didn't. not on the day of the election. as you know, soon thereafter, the then-chairwoman of the michigan republican party called for, you know, hundreds of people to come down to tcf center to try to be disruptive and to stop the counting of the ballots. that, of course, was a concern. but, you know, just as we were ready in 2020, we'll be ready again in 2022 in the event that you have people who are attempting to incite people to commit violence at the polls. >> since we last talked, the deputy attorney general, lisa monaco, seemed to confirm that there is at least some examination of what you referred to the u.s. attorneys with the fake electors. my colleague, rachel maddow, has also reported that the i.g. at the national archives is also scrutinizing those fake slates of a vote for donald trump in states won by joe biden. have you had any communication with the u.s. attorneys or

turned over any more evidence to them or been asked for any other evidence? >> no. but i was grateful to hear that, you know, the evidence is being reviewed by the department of justice, and they seem to be taking this very seriously. i hope they are. >> if they don't, will you open cases? >> well, i have an open investigation right now, and what i have indicated in the past is that, you know, we'll be ready to charge in the event that the federal authorities are not making progress on this. i really did think it was important to give the feds the opportunity, since they have more bandwidth, more resources, when you're talking about a conspiracy that involves actors in multiple different states. so, i did think it was important that they pursue that, but you know, we can't allow these individuals to have committed crimes of this nature and be held completely unaccountable

and i was very nervous, of course, to hear donald trump say that in the event that these prosecutions move forward, and he is re-elected in 2024, he will simply pardon these people. so, that really calls out for why there should be not just federal prosecutions but possibly state prosecutions as well. >> right. and i guess the point being that if they are charged and prosecuted and convicted, he has already promised publicly, no less, to pardon all of them, and we'd be right back where we started. my other question, though, for you, is when you hear the ex-president confess to the most egregious aspect of january 6th, other than the conduct that led to the deaths of law enforcement officers and the mutilation of those protecting the building, brave officers who speak out regularly, he copped to the whole thing. he said that mike pence, he's still disappointed in mike

pence. he could have overthrown the election results, seeming to nod that the result had gone to the rightful winner but pence had the ability to overthrow it, he just didn't listen to him. what -- have you seen any tale to that yet? and i wonder if trump owning the crimes, has that led to any of the fake electors in michigan today making any public comments, owning their potential crimes? >> well, we did hear the co-chair of the michigan republican party, who is one of the people who signed off as a false elector, and she indicated right on audiotape in a packed room that she participated in this and she did so at the behest of the trump campaign. so, you know, she was quite clear about that. i think now we know where this came from, and it seems pretty obvious that trump is essentially conceding. he's admitting to the crime. >> right. >> so -- but as i said many

times, i mean, just because you commit your crime out there in the open, doesn't make it any less of a crime. it just makes it easier to prosecute. >> frank, can you speak to this? you've got an ongoing investigation by the january 6th committee that we know about. they've subpoenaed the fake electors. you've got somewhat cryptic tea leaves being read by all of us, and lisa monaco seemingly confirmed that they were scrutinizing the evidence that the attorney general turned over and other attorneys general. what does it do to investigation when a person who was president once and is committed to running again says, you know what? i'll pardon all of you if i'm there again. does that impact ongoing investigation? >> well, so, there's good news/bad news. it helps, but yet, there's tremendous risk here. so, generally, in my days in the bureau, we used to love it when a defendant was stupid enough to

publicly make statements, sometimes from the courthouse steps, sometimes on local radio shows, we loved it. go ahead. further incriminate yourself. let's hear about what you wish had happened, what you conspired to have happened. good news. bad news? this guy -- this former guy is a clear and consistent threat to our security, to free and fair elections. when you have him saying, i'm calling for the largest protest ever in the context of prosecutors who are simply investigating him right now, when you hear the fulton county d.a. has to now ask for help for security as she just simply convenes a special grand jury to look at things, when you hear two gop candidates in michigan in the same room talk about, come locked and loaded, be prepared, another one saying, unplug tabulation machines if you even sense that there's fraud, there's a strategy here.

the strategy is one to dissuade people from trusting the results of an election, to commit sabotage, threaten and intimidate people simply for doing their job. these can't be taken in silos. they all have been to be taken together. so good news, i love it when trump incriminates himself and i'm sure prosecutors do as well. bad news, the prosecutors better step it up because he is a clear and consistent threat every time he speaks those words. >> i mean, i guess, frank, can you pull back the curtain? is the fbi unsiloing all these acts of election subversion and, you know, fraudulent attempt to turn in fake electors and people who talk about bringing guns and unplugging machines? has that happened? >> you're asking -- so, you're asking what i think is the -- a key question here is, do they yet, doj, fbi, have they yet placed donald j. trump in the subject line of their investigation? i don't know the answer to that.

doing that would absolutely then give -- it would necessitate collecting his statements as evidence of past crimes and future intentions. i hope that's being done, but hope isn't a plan. hope isn't a strategy. they've got to understand that he is the threat driving this right now. his party isn't going to come out, as we've just heard. his party's not going to come out and condemn this stuff. if two guys in a room in michigan can do it, certainly the former president can do it at a rally, so that's the seminal question. is he the target? is he a subject right now? i don't know the answer to that, nicole. >> madam attorney general, our friend errin haines has a question for you. >> thank you, nicole. and listen, attorney general, i could spend from now until november asking elected officials and people running for office, is this cool now? because that really is just the ongoing question and theme. but you know, nicole mentioned some of the actions that you're

taking. i want to talk about going on offense, because it seems like that that's what you're doing. what else can states do to be kind of proactive about protecting elections, and how are -- are you coordinating, for example, with the secretary of state's office to inform voters? what is your advice to voters who are worried about just this sort of thing? i mean, you are right to point out tampering with these machines as voter intimidation, and also, not to mention intimidation to poll workers who certainly didn't sign up for this kind of hostile work environment, to say the least. >> well, i think what we need to do is really what we did in 2020, and secretary of state jocelyn benson and i worked very, very close together. we coordinated. we must have done, you know, four or five dozen town halls just on this subject so that we could be communicating with voters around the state as to how to vote, when to vote, where to vote, but also to make certain that voters knew that, you know, if they were eligible, they would have the opportunity

to vote, that their vote would be counted. if they decided to vote absentee, their vote would count or if they decided to show up at the polls, they would not be subject to threats or intimidation or any efforts to deter them from voting. and in fact, i filed pretty unique case against a couple well-known republican operatives just for making robocalls to residents in the city of detroit providing disinformation to them about the way in which to vote absentee. because it was so important to me that people were not using illegal means to deter people from voting. but the best i can do is to coordinate with my law enforcement partners, the local, you know, county, state, and federal partners to make sure that they're aware of any potential threats at the polls and that we make sure that whether you are an election worker or a voter, you know that you are going to be safe and

that if you intend to commit any crimes at the polls, you will be arrested and you will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. >> errin, i think your question is so important in the context of the highly coordinated effort on the other side, and there is this feeling that the bad guys are on offense and the pro-democracy side is just plugging holes. i want to read to you some reporting from our friend, nick, from the "new york times." he reports that many of the election deniers are running in solidly red states where it is less likely that their actions could tilt a presidential election, but several others who have formed a coalition calling itself the america first slate are running in states won by mr. biden in 2020, including in the crucial battleground states of michigan, arizona, and nevada. the coalition's members are coordinating talking points and sharing staff members and fund-raising efforts, an unusual degree of cooperation for down ballot candidates from different states. your question seems to be rooted in some angst that the defenders of democracy are not as

coordinated. do i have that right? >> well, i'll tell you, voters were coordinated and they certainly were making a plan to cast their ballot in 2020 and may have to make new plans headed into 2022 and 2024. voters that i especially talked to in texas and georgia, in 2020, when they were able to take advantage of what were then the early voting guidelines and absentee ballot and drop box means of casting a ballot, explicitly told me they were doing so specifically to avoid the election day shenanigans that were already under way then and the types of election day shenanigans that the attorney general has alluded to and that we heard at the top of your piece talking about possibly pulling the plug on election machines. they wanted an opportunity to make sure that their ballot was cast and they wanted to have enough time, potentially, if there were any issues with their ballot to have time to rectify that. you know, so, voters are trying to be proactive about this.

they're trying to do everything that they can to make sure that their votes are counted, but frankly, with safeguards eroding and with voter suppression on the march in state legislatures and in the absence of federal legislation, voters are really feeling like they are kind of on their own in a lot of these states in terms of making sure that their ballot is going to count. >> they are. frank figliuzzi and michigan attorney general dana nessel, thank you so much for starting us off this hour. errin is sticking around. when we come back, new reporting on the staggering number of voters disenfranchised by the new voting restriction laws in georgia. those shocking numbers. and new information on the investigation into the disgraced ex-president next. plus, russian military takes what's being seen as a significant step towards a possible invasion of ukraine. it comes amid a stepped-up disinformation campaign from moscow and a diplomatic showdown between the u.s. and russia at the u.n. and british prime minister boris johnson facing intense

criticism and new calls for his resignation after the release of a damning report about parties he attended while the rest of his country was on pandemic lockdown. "deadline white house" continues after a quick break. ckdown "deadline white house" continues after a quick break.

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through georgia? at least in part. we're only now just fully realizing the aftershocks of a restrictive new voting bill signed into law there, one intended to appease trump when he refused to admit defeat there. "mother jones" is reporting this. the number of rejected mail ballot applications there has skyrocketed since the gop law was passed. and speaking of disenfranchisement, georgia also features prominently in the fake elector story that we have been following here now for days. last week alone, the department of justice began the process of reviewing the false documents at the center of that scandal to determine if any crimes were committed. while the january 6th select committee has subpoenaed a pair of georgia officials said to be involved in the plot. but hovering over all of that, the infamous phone call when donald trump asked georgia's secretary of state, brad raffensperger, to, quote, find those 11,000 votes that he came up short. that request is the centerpiece of an ongoing criminal investigation focused on efforts to alter the outcome of the

election in georgia. fulton county district attorney fani willis is in the process of creating a special grand jury with subpoena power to examine what happened. she's doing so under duress. listen to the dangerous threat issued by trump this weekend, barely a year after the attack on the capitol. >> if these radical, vicious, racist prosecutors do anything wrong or illegal, i hope we are going to have in this country the biggest protest we have ever had in washington, d.c., in new york, in atlanta, and elsewhere, because our country and our elections are corrupt. >> project much? mere hours after trump made that threat, the atlanta area d.a. resorted to sending a letter to the fbi asking for help with security as that office goes through with its fact-finding mission, undeterred. joining our conversation, the newest member of our msnbc family, what great news, craig

bluestein, political reporter for the "atlanta journal constitution," now an msnbc contributor. i love saying that. errin haines is also still with us. greg, the reason we call you so much and are so glad to have you available to share your reporting is because all of these plotlines really did and do, i think, that's the point, do still run through georgia. talk about the threats and talk about the ongoing tumult in your state. >> yeah. i mean, the road to the big lie really does run through georgia, as you mentioned, and we're ground zero for the disinformation campaign and for really the test of donald trump's influence in 2022 and beyond with all of his slate of endorsements here in georgia. and as you mentioned, his rhetoric has consequences. and fani willis, the district attorney for fulton county, has real concerns about violent threats and protests outside the fulton county courthouse as her investigation moves forward. as she said, she does not want the fulton county courthouse to

be the scene of the same thing that we saw on january 6, 2021, with the insurrection. she's really worried about the safety and security of she and her staff, but it also says she will not be intimidated or influenced by those threats. >> i want to read from some of your reporting about the fake electors, because it's about the would-be fake electors who decided they wouldn't be fake electors and came up with interesting explanations or alibis for not participating in that part of trump's attempt to overturn the election. you report this. the "atlanta journal constitution" reached out to the four republicans who took their names off the electoral list along with at least one other activist who rejected an offer to join the group. john isaacson, son of the late u.s. senator, initially agreed to serve as a trump elector if the former president won re-election but refused to be included on the new slate. he told the ajc that participating seemed like, quote, political gamesmanship. state representative susan holmes, a moticello republican,

declined to comment while c.j. pierson said he couldn't serve. but each avoided potential criminal repercussions. did they have better lawyers? did they know it was false? did they have a line into raffensperger and sterling who said there's no fraud here, there's no need for this? i mean, what prevailed for the folks who would not put their name to a fake slate? >> yeah, i think for john isaacson jr., maybe for representative susan holmes, they were conscientious objectors, it sound like. they knew this was a publicity stunt, that it could be more than a publicity stunt, it could lead to legal ramifications and frankly they saw it as a waste of time, it sounds like. for the others on that potential slate, c.j. pierson's still very involved in republican politics and was involved in the whole stop the steal lie so i think it was frankly because he did move to alabama. he's a teenager. he's a college student at university of alabama, so i think that was one of the reasons. and i think patrick artman did

have, you know, significant family issue that he had to attend to. but i thought it was noteworthy when patrick reached out to jason shepherd, he also said, look, it's not worth my time. he was saying what a lot of other republicans were saying, let's focus on the runoffs and not on perpetuating this lie about a rigged election. >> errin haines, the lie about the rigged election did usher in with the support of brad raffensperger and governor kent and others. the voter restriction law that led to the boycott of major league baseball, the all-star game in georgia, and our friend, ari berman at "mother jones," reports this. during municipal elections in november, georgia voters were 45 times more likely to have their mail ballot applications rejected and ultimately not vote as a result than in 2020. that same rejection rate were extrapolated in the 2020 race, more than 38,000 votes would not have been cast in a presidential

contest decided by just over 11,000 votes. in november 2021, georgians who successfully obtained mail ballots were also twice as likely to have those ballots rejected once they were submitted compared to the previous year. if that were the case in 2020, about 31,000 fewer votes would have been cast in the election. so, i hear your point in the previous block about voters feeling like they're on their own. it's a lot of vote. i'm not great at math, but it's 38,000 plus 31,000. it's a lot more than the 11,780 that decided the race. they have already re-rigged the georgia electorate. mission accomplished for the big lie crowd, errin haines. >> yeah. and you're exactly right, nicole. look, three times, we saw voter fraud disproven in georgia, and yet we are getting increasing evidence and maybe even more proof, depending on what the district attorney turns up, that there was, in fact, voter suppression happening in georgia

and attempts at voter suppression that were happening in georgia, and look, this is just really a reminder that elections matter. every election, every cycle, because elections have consequences. and so, you know, the electorate is becoming more aware of this fact. you can see this reflected in our elections. you know, in the previous segment, you were talking about the folks who are running for secretary of state. i mean, remember when district attorneys and sheriffs's races came into focus? people are going to start paying attention to who the secretary of state is, who is running for secretary of state because of the power they have always held and because the big lie is now trying to make its way into the infrastructure of our elections process. so, their role in this democracy is going to be more important than ever and not just on election day but in the lead-up to the election when they are going to do the important work of setting the guidelines of how the election is going to go. if i can just make one more point, nicole, because this is something that needs to be addressed at the state level because we don't know what's happening at the federal level right now. as you may know, the president and the vice president today hosted the national governors

association this morning for a meeting, bipartisan gathering, so you had republican governors in the room. i was told by a white house official that the vice president, in her remarks to the group, made a point to talk about voting rights and that she wanted to be clear that this is an issue that she plans to keep on the table, that she wants them to remember, you know, it's controversial now but used to be bipartisan. there were about 30 governors in attendance, although noticeably absent were governors who maybe needed to hear this message from states like georgia and texas. >> always the case, right? errin haines, thank you for sharing that reporting with us. greg bluestein, you're one of our favorite reporters to call on and a fantastic storyteller, what's really happening on the ground. we're thrilled to have you as part of the family. when we come back, the number of russian troops along the ukraine border is growing and so is moscow's disinformation campaign. how the u.s. is trying to de-escalate the tension. mation . how the u.s. is trying to de-escalate the tension.

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you've heard from our russian colleagues that we're calling for this meeting to make you all feel uncomfortable. imagine how uncomfortable you would be if you had a hundred thousand troops sitting on your border. let me be clear. there are no plans to weaken russia as claimed by our russian colleague today. on the contrary, we welcome russia as a responsible member of the international community, but its actions on the border of ukraine are not responsible. >> that was the u.s. ambassador

to the united nations putting diplomacy to the test at today's security council meeting and keeping her promise to listen to russia but not to be distracted by their propaganda. the u.s. publicly confronting moscow on its build-up of more than 100,000 troops at the ukrainian border and calling out russia's ambassador, who described the meeting as, quote, an unacceptable interference and accused the u.s. of provoking and wanting war. ukraine's ambassador questioned the reason for the build-up and said ukraine will only believe russian movements at the border rather than declarations from the kremlin, which says it doesn't want war. meanwhile, russian troops conducted more drills today, and a senior u.s. defense official tells nbc news that russia has begun delivering a blood supply to troops, a significant development that gives the russian military more capability to treat potential casualties. president joe biden warned russia today of swift and severe consequences should they walk away from diplomacy and attack

ukraine. and u.s. lawmakers say they're nearing an agreement on the, quote, mother of all sanctions, a bill that would target russia's biggest banks and debt and provide more lethal assistance to ukraine. joining our coverage, julie, washington correspondent and founding partner of puck and michael crowley is here, "new york times" diplomatic correspondent. michael, is it really still sort of proceeding on these two parallel tracks that the state department and the pentagon made clear last year with almost sort of concurrent briefings? is that what is pushing forward at the u.n. while the military deterrence and preparations proceed on another one? >> yeah, absolutely. the united states is still, you know, very committed to trying to find a diplomatic solution, trying to give what they describe as off ramps for the russians, for president putin, to, you know, find some face-saving way in which he can pull all his troops back from ukraine's borders.

i mean, that's one of the problems here is that president putin is really out on a limb. he's flexed his muscles. he's shown this incredibly intimidating military presence, and for him to just reel it all back, i think, is going to require him being able to say that he got something. so, where is that of the two circles can give putin accept and save face. but unfortunately, i just don't see where that overlap is right now. it's not at all clear that there is sufficient room for a compromise that is going to let both sides climb down. so, while the diplomatic process is going on, i just have to say that analytically, it doesn't look like there's a clear end game here that doesn't result, unfortunately, in the military option. >> i want to read -- actually, i think i have the sound. this is the ukrainian ambassador on cbs sunday. >> the reason why putin attacked us is not because he wants ukraine.

only ukraine. the reason he attacked us is because we have chosen to be a democracy, and we have the euratlantic and european aspirations. if ukraine will be further attacked by russia, of course they will not stop in ukraine, so that's why it's in the interest of europe and all democratic world to help us to defend ourselves but also to show that the international rule of law still works. >> it is the best articulation of the stakes that i have heard. and i wonder, julia, the white house has sort of making that point and that case to a pretty weary american public in mind as a priority. >> yes. i agree with you, and it's actually a really good talking point from ukraine. i don't know that it's really quite true, i have to say. i think what's at stake is, you

know, again, the same issue that we faced in 2014, can you change the borders of nations in europe by military force? and can vladimir putin unwind the aftereffects of russia losing the cold war and basically renegotiate the terms of surrender? i think that is, you know, a very -- that's what's at stake, but that's very hard to sell to a domestic audience. you have to make the stakes understandable in terms of freedom and democracy and the free world versus the not free world. but i also, honestly, i don't know how much the american public cares anymore because you know, we just pulled out of afghanistan a few months ago where we had been for 20 years under a similar kind of guise, and it's very hard to sell abstract things to the general

population when they're concerned, you know -- they care more about the price at the pump than the price of freedom. >> michael crowley, i want to read about the sanctions coverage that you have in the paper. you and your colleague write this. u.s. officials vow to unleash searing economic measures if russia invades ukraine, including sanctions on its largest banks and financial institutions in ways that would inevitably affect daily life in russia but the strategy comes with political and economic risks. no nation has ever tried to enact broad sanctions against such large financial institutions and on an economy the size of russia's and the swift response could roil major economies,particularly those in europe and even threaten the stability of the global financial system. analysts say. i mean, it gets to the same point that i think julia bravely puts on the table. is there a will to do this? not just in this country but among our community of allies?

>> yeah, nicole, thanks for citing the story, and you know, we tried to lay out here what some of the effects would be of the sanctions that the u.s. government is previewing right now. while also making the point that there's a lot of skepticism among many analysts who think that, you know, the biden administration might not actually follow through, might be difficult to follow through if the europeans who have more skin in the game here are resistant, and actually the, you know, bigger point, which goes to the great point that julia just made, is that what does not seem to be on the table is something that would affect the price at the pump, which is really hitting russia's energy sector, in particular trying to cut off imports of technology and goods that would -- that supply their oil production or even trying to choke off their oil exports as the united states has done to iran over the past decade. that's just -- doesn't seem like something the biden administration is touching right

now, and i think you can infer that a big reason for that is that it would very likely have an effect on the price of oil, and then on the price of gasoline for average americans, and i think julia's analysis is probably right, that it's a -- going to be a really tough sell to tell ordinary americans, you need to pay more for gas because we're cracking down on russia because they're invading a country which frankly, i think, a lot of americans don't really know very much about and would only have a vague sense of where it is geographically, so that's a tough sell. >> you know, julia, there's almost like a resignation that i hear, frankly in both of your reporting, and i wonder if that's coming from sources in the administration. is that how the biden white house sees this? >> i mean, from what i am hearing from the administration is that they -- they feel pretty much resigned that, you know, they think that military action's going to happen, even though they think that vladimir putin hasn't made up his mind but that he alone can decide

which way this goes. so, there is a kind of resignation that, sure, we're going to keep talking, we're going to keep the diplomatic channels open, but we're not seeing kind of a return on investment. there's very much diminishing returns there. i do want to say, though, about the sanctions, you know, sanctions are not a very -- not a great tool of coercing change inside nations. look at iran. look at cuba. and we have seen the west impose really tough sanctions in 2014 after russia invaded ukraine and illegally annexed the crimean peninsula, and russia has only become more crazy on the world stage. you know, it uses nerve agent to try to kill somebody on british soil. it has completely eradicated the opposition at home. it's now doing this. and given how isolated vladimir putin is and given, you know,

the two or three advisors that he has listened to who are basically like paranoid conservative hawks, i think they think this price is worth it. and i think we talked about this on your show last week. the u.s. ostensibly is about -- the government is for the people, and russia, it's the opposite. so, they don't really care how much their economy suffers, how much their people suffer. they don't believe that that's really an important part of the equation when making their decisions abroad. >> it's amazing, really grateful to both of you for your incites and reporting, julia ioffe and michael crowley, thank you so much. when we come back, boris johnson defiant in the face of increasing calls for his resignation after a report found he attended two parties during the height of the pandemic while the british people were on covid lockdown. a live report from our friend, keir simmons. lockdown a li rveeport from our friend, keir simmons

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over the last two years, the british public have been asked to make the most heart wrenching sacrifices. the collective trauma endured by all enjoyed by none. funerals have been missed. dying relatives unvisited. every family has been marked by what we've been through. that will be forever tainted by the behavior of this

conservative prime ministe by routinely breaking the rules he set. the prime minister took us all for fools. he held people sacrificing. he showed himselfen fit for office. >> that is what british prime minister bori johnson faces today about lockdown parties during the covid pandemic. what happens next? >> well, the prime minister, i think, has managed to escape today, but he now faces a police investigation and today, was pretty damaging. there can be a lot of fireworks. it doesn't get more explosive than watching a former prime minister stand up and accuse the

current prime minister of either incompetence or arrogance. she said to him, either you didn't read the rules or you didn't understand the rules or you thought the rules did not apply to you and then there is the question of how the british public will judge this. this is the report and it is only 12 pages because the police are still investigating but in it, for example, it talks about the excessive consumption of alcohol in downing street in the prime minister's office. in other words, allegedly people were drunk and that does not look good when the prime minister has so many issues he's supposed to be tackling. we have our own inflation challenge here to issues like ukraine. he's said to travel to ukraine tomorrow. he's not out of the woods by any

stretch. >> are the incriminations coming from within his own party as well or is politics there as fractured as here? >> the recriminations are coming from within his party. that former prime minister is the leader of the conservative party. another member of his party stood up and talked about going to his grandmother's funeral, not being able to stay and have a cup of tea while in downing street as this member of parliament put it, they were busy holding parties. there are recriminations. politics here is in many ways upside down here as it is there.

there were people who said we thought this was happening, maybe with a smirk. it's hard to tell if boris johnson gets to the election, the electorate will hold it against him or whether they will see it as another aspect of their colorful prime minister. i do think the prime minister needs to show that he can carry on governing even while this is all going on. even while the police are investigating. that's what he's trying to do. then there's another point which is will his own party believe he can win next election. if they decide that he's now an election liability then she in trouble. >> is it people in his party think it's great he was having drunken parties?

>> i wouldn't say great. obviously, there would be that faction, i suppose. that is less vaccine resistance here in the u.s. than numbers you're seeing there in the u.s. it is interesting because there is a big libertarian, if you like, wing of boris johnson conservative party. people who feel he shouldn't have locked down for as long that he should have released the lockdown earlier. boris johnson didn't call a lock down over christmas. again, doesn't look good if you're holding parties while you're announcing a lockdown. in the end, these are boris johnson's laws that he's accused

of defying. >> it's amazing. the hypocrisy usually gets every one in america, except the republicans. quick break for us. we'll be right back. publicans. quick break for us we'll be right back. qunol's superior absorption helps me get the full benefits of turmeric. the brand i trust is qunol. ♪ i see trees of green ♪ red roses too ♪ ♪ ♪ i see them bloom for me and you ♪ (music) ♪ so i think to myself ♪ ♪ oh what a wonderful world ♪ riders, the lone wolves of the great highway.

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thank you so much for letting us into your homes. we are grateful. "the beat" starts right now. hi there. >> thank you so much to you and welcome to the beat. we start with an admission from donald trump that could put legal heat