this moment. and pointing attention to health disparities, communities of color that have had disproportionate effects. and sounding the alarm about populations that are being left behind, whether it's here in the u.s. or around the world, as many of us, at the same time, are saying we're done with covid. the things that need to be done our relationship building and that means reaching across the aisle and also, problem solving. in communities, face to face. and i do think there are some seeds of hope here. -- community health worker programs have spread across the country during the pandemic. >> thank you both. appreciate it. that is all in on this wednesday night. the mauricio maddow show starts right now. -- >> thank you at-home for joining us this hour. happy to have you here tonight in my home. i'm sorry i'm still at home and -- i'm still in quarantine because of a covid exposure. i cannot go back to the studio

yet because i cannot wear a mask while i'm in the studio. again, there's nothing to worry about, i'm fine. i'm just poorly lit. and standing in my home office, which is weird, but it is what it is. i'm just trying to do my part to not spread covid and so i will be here tonight and tomorrow night as well. harvard medical school, as you might a madden is pretty consistently ranked the top medical school in the united states. structurally, though, harvard is not like some of the other top schools in the u.s.. harvard medical school is not attached to its own hospital. like, for example, stanford medical school is really highly ranked. same goes for johns hopkins and baltimore. they got that incredibly highly ranked medical school, also johns hopkins university hospital. also the university of pennsylvania's hospital in philadelphia. that is a common setup for big, highly ranked medical schools. but that is not how it works

for harvard. harvard is the top ranked, or one of the top ranked schools in the united states year after year. but they do not have their own individual teaching hospital. instead, harvard medical school partners with a whole bunch of hospitals. they partner with more than a dozen different hospitals and medical institute and the boston area. and they use all of them as their teaching hospitals and affiliates. it's part of the reason we think of boston as being a world leader in terms of health care and hospitals. it helps that more than a dozen hospitals, from mass general to dana farber to boston children's to mass eye and ear, all of these famous hospitals and health care institutes, they are not only famous in their own rights, they are all teaching hospitals for harvard medical school. and the one with by far the weirdest name is the hospital that is called brigham and women's. before 1980, there were two

different brigham hospitals in boston that were both harvard med school teaching hospitals. there was also the boston hospital for women, which is kind of a weird concept, but that is a thing that used to exist in medicine. in 1975, those three different harvard medical school teaching hospitals, they all merged. and they got a new name. they got the still awkward to this day name of brigham and women's. that is the name of the hospital. it is a major teaching hospital. as i said, is it is affiliated with harvard medical school. really prestigious and accomplished. it's actually one of the most highly rated hospitals, not only in the united states, it's one of the most highly rated hospitals in the whole world. and a week and a half ago, at brigham and women's hospital in boston, this happened. they had an outbreak of nazis. this is a neo-nazi group based in worcester, massachusetts. we know that because they put

their email address on the threatening flyer that the group handed out at the hospital. hi -- your servers are being used as contact information for a literal nazi recruitment efforts in the united states. did you know? the nazi group was out in front of brigham and women's hospital a week ago saturday. they handed out fliers, targeting two doctors by name, accusing them of anti white genocidal policy ands these guys lined up in our little khaki pants and matching shirts and masks and they held up this big a sign, brigham and women's hospital kills white. really? the hospital kills white people? and so, the nazis are out there in front of the hospital, saturday morning, defending all the poor white people from the doctors in the hospitals that are trying to kill all the white people. why do the nazis think that the hospitals are trying to tell the white people? where did they get this from?

well, this happened exactly one week prior. >> the left is now rationing lifesaving therapeutics based on race, discriminating against and denigrating, just denigrating, white people to determine who lives and who dies. if you are white, you don't get the vaccine or if you are white, you don't get there up eunuchs. if you are white, you have to go to the back of the line to get medical help. think of it, if you're white, you go to the back of the line. >> if you're white, you go back to the back of the line. that was trump speaking saturday the 15th. it was saturday the 22nd, exactly a week later, there are the nazis, outside the hospital in boston with their big sign. this hospital kills white people. they are so pleased with themselves they posted a travelog of themselves all taking the tee in boston wearing little nazi outfits and

handing out nazi flags. the whole group of them, throwing their little heil hitler's nazi -- on public transportation during the white power hand gesture thing. more nazi salutes. never get tired of that one. this is massachusetts last weekend. the identity of the nazi group and question was confirmed by gba news. we will be joined by an investigative reporter from gba. but we really are having a moment with the stuff right now. last night, we reported on the rash of bomb threats that have shut down and terrorized historically biotech colleges and universities. over and over again during the past month. the first threats against more than a half a dozen black colleges came on january 4th. then, this week on monday, another half dozen black colleges and universities got hit with more bomb threats. then yesterday, on tuesday, at least six different black colleges and universities got more bomb threats. they had to send out emergency

warnings, they closed campuses, canceled classes, told people to shelter in place the -- today, law enforcement sources tell multiple news organizations, that the fbi has identified multiple peoples of interest in this investigation -- we will see if that information pans out, we'll see if there are arrests who come. we'll see if the threats stop or keep coming. i will tell you, the threats against black colleges and universities have been front page news so far. in a few communities, in communities where the bomb threats have arrived in places like daytona beach, florida. you can see on their front page above the headline there. also greenwood, mississippi gets a bomb threat. also, marshall, texas.

-- but i have to tell you. these are small places and places where these colleges are right there in the community. the fact that more than two dozen hbcus and the united states of america have had bomb threats now, just in the past month, including 16 in one day this week. kind of seems like it ought to be more of a national front page story, since it does appear to be a sustained, coordinated effort to terrorize a huge number of some of the most important black institutions in the united states. i don't know. it seems like -- i mentioned that daytona beach, florida, it's one of the places where the local paper has front page the story and followed closely. that is one of the communities where that bomb threat to the local black college was phoned and by someone who explicitly claimed that he was a neo-nazi and it was a neo-nazi group that had planted the bombs on campus.

same thing happened in arkansas. the guy who phoned in bomb threats to hbcus in arkansas said that he was a -- and was going to blow the places up. like, we don't have enough going on in the country right now, we have to be dealing with nazis everywhere. it is kind of a theme right now. seems to be a lot of this going on. did i mention daytona beach there? elsewhere in florida, this was suburban orlando this weekend. a nazi group flying swastikas, holding signs about how the jews are behind it all. be writing people in suburban orlando and screaming about the jews and heil hitler from the side of the road. at one point, a jewish young man who was with -- he passed by this lovely display. according to reporting -- the nazi demonstrators saw an israeli flag icon on his

license -- they grabbed him, pepper sprayed him, spit in his face -- the young man spoke with fox 35 about the attack and about being the descendant of holocaust survivors. the local orange county sheriff in florida has now told local reporters he expects that there will be charges filed against those nazis who beat up that jewish student as part of their roadside demonstration in orlando. the sheriff said those charges will be forthcoming but at this point they know of no arrests or charges. i will tell you, after that neo-nazi demonstration in orlando on saturday, where a jewish student got beat up, the very next day, another group of neo-nazis showed up on the interstate in orlando, and there were lots of sort of confident sounding reporting a mediately after about how the nazis who did this demonstration with their swastikas and their antisemitic signs -- lots of confidence sounding

reporting after this happen this weekend that, don't worry, they will get them. it's illegal to hang a sign on an overpass like that in florida and so, those guys will get in trouble. that confidence may have been misplaced. the orlando sentinel reporting today that while police did respond to the scene of those nazis with their swastikas banners on that overpass, police made no arrests. they let the nazis all leave under their own recognizance. how are things going in florida these days? in addition to this rash of nazi incidents, there is a follow on scandal simmering in florida, involving governor ron desantis. -- screaming antisemitic abuse of people and beating up at least one jewish passerby, and then the nazis showed up the following day on those overpasses as well.

and this was upsetting, right? and a local and state leaders, democrat and republican, rush to condemn the nazis. the local mayor, the sheriff, florida's republican u.s. senator, rick scott -- they all came forward and condemned the offense in no uncertain terms. but from the governor, it has been a little weird. the only initial response from florida's republican governor was this tweet from his press secretary saying, quote, do we even know if they are nazis? yeah. yeah, they volunteered that they are and also, swats ago banners. she has since deleted that tweet. -- governor desantis couldn't get around to addressing the nazis and orlando issue. here is what he said. >> [inaudible] >> but i'm going to say is,

these people -- >> i'm just going to stop that there for a second and say, -- you can sort of gas where he's going, right? but i'm going to say is, these people, what do you think he will say next? but i'm going to say is, these people, these neo-nazi hate peak ropes, they have no place in florida. i condemn them. you figure that is what he will say. right? you figure that is where florida's governor is going with that. because that is the easiest, most straightforward question a bit politician can get. that is like a long, slow softball right over the plate. there is only right -- once the right answer. please respond to the nazis. that is what rhonda santas was asked. and he starts off -- what do you think he says next? here is where he went with that. >> so, what i'm going to say is,

these people, these democrats who are trying to use this as some type of political issue to try to smear me as if i had something to do with it, we are not playing their game. >> not going to play their game of condoning nazis? because that is a democrat game that you don't want to be dragged into? i am not kidding when i tell you that florida's governor ron desantis, his answer continued for another two and a half minutes, in which to talk about joe biden and inflation and immigration and crime. he even talked about airbnb. but he never got around to condemning nazis. well, here is something new. -- is a holocaust historian. she is one of the most cited, revered scholars of the holocaust in the whole world. president biden nominated --

for an important job in the u.s. government. he nominated her to be the special envoy on antisemitism. this is not a job that was created for her. this was not a job that biden created. it was created in the new york -- but it is an important job. it comes with the rank of ambassador. it is a job that require senate confirmation. for more than six months now, republican senators have refused to allow her nomination to even be considered. they have had a hold on her nomination. they will not let anyone fill that job. they will not even hold hearings about putting her in the job. why? i mean, any urgency around this issue at all in our country right now? republican senators did finally relent today and allowed that they will hold a confirmation hearing. --

today, they finally allowed it after holding it up for more than six months. all it took was, in the past week, a bunch of neo-nazi banners flying over the interstate in florida, more neo-nazis beating up and spitting on and pepper spraying a jewish student because they were in the middle of screaming heil hitler -- also, last month, there is the hours-long hostage standoff in a texas synagogue. held at gunpoint for hours while a lunatic ranted and raved about how the jews controlled everything -- all it took was a flaccid at marta -- heil hitler-ing their way across public transportation in boston -- and terrorize to doctors, whose names and photos they put on their flyers, accusing them of killing white people. after their let's go brandon hero stood up -- we have to do something about it. yeah, that is all it took. apparently, that is all it took

to get her a confirmation hearing date. baby now the republican senators on the u.s. formal relations committee have seen enough to maybe consider her nomination for this position. you think? you think there has been enough? or do we want to wait for more? because the way things are going, i'm going to bet there will be more. not just in the south, not just in florida. it will be a new england, california, all over. we are having a problem with this as a country right now. how are we dealing with it? part of the way we are dealing with it is with good investigative reporting. joining us now is philip martin. he is a senior -- mr. martin, it is a pleasure to have you with us tonight. thank you. >> rachel, thank you. much appreciated. >> let me ask if there is anything else you have been able to report about this

disturbing demonstration, this group that showed up at the hospital in boston. is there anything that you can tell us about the size of this group, the other stuff they have been doing? >> we can talk about the size to some degree. your summary was excellent. the size -- this has always been a minute and fringe organization. right now, they are part of what you see is a trend. the mainstreaming of extremism. this is a group that has suddenly attracted a new members. we know that because the anti-defamation league has been counting them. and said that the demonstration outside of the brigham and women's hospital, that you pointed out, was larger than most of their other demonstrations. on most occasions, they will attract four or five people. this time, they attracted two dozen people. that is still small, when we talk about organizations, but as far as an extreme white neo-nazi organization, it is considered significant. >> one of the things that i

thought was really interesting about your reporting was thickens texturally's this overtime. this is not the first time these doctors have been targeted, including by name and in this case, it was very disturbing to have their photos distributed at their place of work. -- it's really interesting to have you put that in context in terms of the kinds of scholarly work they have done. some of the pioneering research those doctors took part in was about heart failure. patients with -- have better outcomes when they are put on the cardiology unit rather than being treated in general medicine. these doctors were among a research team that found that, all things being equal, black and latino patients with heart failure were less likely to be put in the cardiology unit. that is where you get a better outcomes. there is a really specific kind of racial health disparity that they identified, that they proved, and that they have since been trying to fix. i just want to make sure that i

understand that correctly. that is the first time i heard about -- in your reporting. is that part of the way they are being targeted for that kind of work? >> that's right. what you and many others, most people, would call sort of striving for equity and equality in medicine, trying to get past the legacy of what henry washington called, medical apartheid. tried to create justice within the medical field -- they identified a specific problem, as you pointed out, that black, latino, latinx patients were not receiving the same quality of care and therefore, they wanted to level the playing field within the hospital system. that has been described by neo-nazis who are essentially -- such as donald trump, i'm

afraid. that has been described as preferential treatment and anti white. they are echoing a sentiment that is widespread on social media, where the minute -- equity in the context of medicine and many other things, it is construed as anti white. it is a very insidious type of propaganda that we are hearing right now. that years ago would have been considered fringe. and it is now -- it has now seeped, not seeped, flooded into the mainstream. and that is what we are dealing with right now, rachel. >> mr. martin, i am trying to put this in context a little bit in terms of the medical community in boston. because boston has a big, powerful health care community. it is some of the best hospitals in the world. they attract medical town from all over the world. now that this harassment and targeted harassment of individual doctors and, to a

certain degree, individual hospitals, has reached this level of scary and, frankly, to my eyes, disgusting levels, is there any signs that these doctors who have been personally targeted -- are they getting support? are they getting back up from the broader and, as i say, powerful influential community in boston? >> to a large degree, yes. the american medical association, the ema, traditionally a very conservative organization, not always known for being within the racial progress vanguard, if you will, they are led -- their equity efforts are led by a doctor who has done quite a bit -- who has been working tirelessly to basically create equity asked the chief officer for the

american medical association. they introduced a plan to attacked structural racism, which -- and these doctors in boston also have been receiving support from fellow doctors within the teaching hospitals. specifically, a harvard medical school -- perhaps not as robust as it should be. they are working on that. it is an internal problem with any organization. and they are basically zeroing in on that. it is the reason, also, why this report today, that she'd be h report that you referenced, we focus on neo-nazis demonstrating and threatening these doctors. but we also zero in on their research. very important. and that research is receiving support around the country. doctors like --

in california and equity networks of various sorts, equal access. various grassroots and progressive organizations that are targeting the causes of inequality and injustice within the medical field -- >> part of it is being targeted and getting back up and getting -- part of it is sticking to your guns and not being intimidated out of doing this work, no matter what anyone else wants to make it into. philip martin, senior investigative reporter for cbs news, thank you for your work and for helping us understand it tonight. >> rachel, i thank you. thank you for having me on. >> much more ahead tonight. stay with us. ight stay with us ♪ limu emu and doug.♪ and it's easy to customize your insurance at libertymutual.com

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breaking news tonight from the new york times. the story we have been covering aggressively over the last few weeks is a story of republicans in a number of states forging

paperwork to try to cast fake votes in the electoral college for donald trump. you can see in the headline here on this story that broke just as we were getting on the air, them osha roots of trump's focus on january 6th and alternate electors. here is the lead -- 15 days after election day in 2020, a lawyer for the trump campaign in wisconsin received a memo setting out what became the rationale for an audacious strategy to put in place alternate slates of electors, slates where trump was trying to overturn his loss. the memo may not have been the first time that lawyers and allies of trump weighed the possibility of naming their own electors in the hope they may eventually succeed in flipping the outcome in battleground states through recounts and lawsuits baselessly asserting widespread fraud. but the november 18th memo, again 50 days after the election, and another 13 weeks later are among the earliest known efforts to put on paper proposals for preparing alternate electors.

the memos helped to shape a crucial strategy that trump embraced with profound consequences for himself in the nation. so, we have been covering for weeks now on this show the evolving understanding of this scheme by trump and friends to falsify the election results and try to keep trump in power even though he lost. part of that is this thing that is emerging with more clarity all the time, and part of the scheme was to send fake slates of electors to congress. pro trump republicans in at least five states that biden won got together and created and signed forged and fraudulent certificates, declaring themselves to be the real electors for their states. that was in five states and into other states republicans created and sent the certificates in but they included language saying that they were just a backup in case trump prevailed in his lawsuits. but five just said, we are the real electors. and they really were not the

real electors. they did not keep it secret that they were doing this at the time. but these gatherings and the documents were largely written off as a sort of kooky trump supporter group engaged in which fulfillment fantasies or at least shenanigans. it was not until a few weeks ago that we understood that this was in fact a serious and coordinated effort across many states. the trump campaign coordinate the effort in order to get these fraudulent slates of electors in front of vice president mike pence on january 6th. as part of that effort to pressure mike pence to use the fake electors, to count the fake electors instead of the real ones, to overturn biden's election and declare that trump had won. so, we knew that it happened at the time but we did not understand that it was coordinated or how it fit into a larger, more series scheme. but that has been evolving over the last few weeks. all the while, the sort of

origins of the scheme, like who came up with the idea and how it was communicated to the people on the ground, to the republicans who gathered and forged documents and got them to the right places at the right time, the sort of command and control of the conspiracy, that has all been a little murky. these new memos published tonight by "the new york times" shed some light on that work, they shed some light on how this came together. you have that first memo from november 18th, 15 days after the election, it is written into a trump campaign lawyer in wisconsin to another lawyer he had apparently consulted for advice. that memo apparently lays the groundwork for the scheme, saying that the real deadline is january 6th, the last chance to overturn biden's win in wisconsin. if we are going to do, that a slate of trump electors in wisconsin needs to meet in the wisconsin state capital on december 14th. and they need to cast their votes for trump, because that is what the law would require

real electors to do if trump had won, if it is going to be seen as valid. so that is the memo that happens from november 18th. then there is a memo between two lawyers that lays out not just what the fake wisconsin trump electors would have to do, but what they would have to do in several states, states that biden won that trump was nevertheless trying to overturn. this was less than a week before december 14th, the date when presidential electors have to cast their votes. that second memo laid out in detail what the fake trump electors would have to do in each state, step-by-step, in order to have their forgeries appear valid and pseudo-legal under the law. we understand from this memo why some of these electors were so insistent on getting inside state capitol buildings. remember those people trying to bagging on the michigan state

capitol, insisting they were the real electors? they had to get inside. apparently, in michigan and other states, electors are required to cast their vote inside the capitol in order to be considered valid. in michigan, they did not get in but in other states they did. the trump campaign was reportedly involved in booking space inside state capitol buildings. the that second memo, the december 9th memo, also lays out how the certificates needed to be signed and where they needed to be sent, to the national archives into the senate. that may explain why all those electors knew exactly what the certificates should look like and where they needed to send them. someone gave them all of the same advice for exactly how to do this. it seems like every time we know just how advanced and seriously planning for this plot was, new evidence emerges that shows the plot was even closer to being realized than we thought. and that it was more tightly connected to the former president and his campaign than

we previously might have known. january 6th investigation has reportedly turned to this part of the plot as they're a key part of that investigation. a member of that investigation is going to join us live, next. stay with us. ve, next stay with us (vo) you can be well-groomed. or even well-spoken. (man) ooooooo. (vo) but there's just something about being well-adventured. (vo) adventure has a new look. discover more in the all-new subaru forester wilderness. love. it's what makes subaru, subaru. trelegy for copd. [coughing] ♪ birds flyin' high, you know how i feel. ♪ ♪ breeze driftin' on by... ♪ if you've been playing down your copd,... ♪ it's a new dawn, it's a new day,... ♪ ...it's time to make a stand. start a new day with trelegy. ♪...and i'm feelin' good. ♪

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up her testimony. quote, miss adams testified that she married the defendant in 1994, and the couple share six children. miss adam testified she filed for divorce in 2018 due to the defendant's violent tendencies. miss adam testify that throughout their marriage, the defendant would often brandish firearms in the family home to control her behavior and she -- according to miss adams, during the time they were married, the defendant installed at lap or it escape tunnels in the couple's backyard -- and purchased hundreds of dollars of razor wire, which the defendant intended to

install -- in case the feds ever came to his door. miss adam testified that she fears for her safety and the safety of her six children should the defendant be released. that is when miss adams testified about her estranged husband. the judge agreed that that was not a portrait of a man who should be trusted to be let out on bail. based in large part on that scary testimony from the defendants estranged wife, the judge ruled that the defendant would not get bail. he would have to stay in jail, awaiting trial. and he is charged with something quite serious. the defendant described here is the leader of the oath keepers. he was arrested last month on charges including seditious conspiracy for his role in helping orchestrate the attack on the capitol and january 6th. as i said, he is still in jail, awaiting trial. so, it was from jail today that this guy, stewart rhodes's name, gave his deposition to the

january 6th investigation in congress. according to mr. rhodes's attorney, he refused to answer some of the investigators questions by pleading the fifth amendment, by invoking his rights to not self incriminate. but his lawyer did and -- his testimony lasted six hours. the other person who spoke to the january 6th investigation today is a man named jeffrey clark. he is not in jail. he is the trump justice department official who is spearheading the effort within the trump administration to try and use the u.s. justice department as part of the overthrow the government plot. use the justice department to pressure individual states that they should flip or at least sort of rescinded the certification of their election results in states that biden won. donald trump wanted to install jeff clark as the attorney general, as the head of the justice department, so he could carry out that scheme. that did not come to pass. jeff clark is as important a person for the january 6th

investigation to talk to -- and prevent the next president from taking office. investigators first tried to interview him last year. he refused to answer their questions. refused to give any substantive answers to any line of questioning. the investigation then move to hold him in contempt, but they paul's those proceedings after jeff clark said he intended to, also, plead the fifth, just like the oath keepers guy. he said he intended to assert his fifth amendment rights. the investigators planned to bring him back a second time to give him a chance to play the fifth. that ended up getting postponed several times due to medical reasons. but today, he finally showed up. he was seen entering the capital today to meet with january 6th investigators, everyone else wearing a mask, but not him. he was there not long. like i said, stewart rhodes from jail, mostly taking the fifth, was there for six hours. jeff clark was there not even two hours.

that has led to speculation today that he must have used most if not all of that time just pleading the fifth. but we do not know. joining us now is congressman jeremy raskin, he is a member of the january 6th -- it's nice to see you. >> hi, rachel, good to see you. >> so, all i know about mr. rhodes and mr. clark testifying today's public reporting. is there anything you can add to that that you are able to tell us? >> not in specific detail, but i can report to you that the committee is making remarkable progress, given donald trump's continuing obstructionism and encouragement of others not to participate. we are really filling in the picture of what happened in the events leading up to january 6th on the day itself and we are looking at how of all these various actors were motivated and activated by trump to try

to overthrow the election. >> one of the things that has been reported this week, based on your financial filings, is that it appears that former president trump, his pack sort of inexplicably dumped 1 million dollars on the organization that employs mark meadows, his former white house chief of staff. and it's so right after the investigation was formed in congress. it stands out as an expenditure because all the other expenditures from this pack are like $5,000. i think there's one that's $10,000. but here's 1 million dollars. to support mark meadows and his income. that maps awkwardly for those of us on the outside. to what we have seen from mr. meadows, in terms of his original cooperation with the investigation, and then as you turn, to where he stopped providing information and ultimately, not only -- but he himself brought his own lawsuit against the committee.

are you looking at the possibility that there was an effort to essentially tamper with witnesses, to bribe or intimidate witnesses and to not cooperating with their inquiry? >> it seems pretty clear to the members of the committee that donald trump perfected the art of dangling pardons in front of people who were in a position to give evidence about various crimes he was engaged in. and it does look like he's up to his old tricks again. that was quite a generous contribution that he offered to mr. meadows says think tank, i think it was. and meadows is obviously in a position to report everything that donald trump was doing on that day. of course, he doesn't leave much to the imagination because over the weekend, he was openly talking about pardoning january

6th criminals. so, that was a message, not just to the more than 700 people who essentially followed his exhortation's and a storm the capital, but also to people higher up in the ranks. he is basically saying, stick with me, write it all the way through the election, i will get back in and everything will be all right. it is an absolute scandal that there are still anti self-respect-ing republican officials that are standing by him at this point. >> it's not obstruction of justice when you get that? i mean, those are ongoing criminal prosecutions that the justice department is carrying out. more than 700 of them. this morning, on cnn, there is an interview with the defense lawyer who was representing a number of defendants from the january 6th accused, and he said, flat out, oh, yeah, that offer from the president will absolutely change the course of these prosecutions. it will reduce the chance that these defendants will give helpful information to the

government. -- in compensation for their help with other prosecutions. it will increase the chance that they will insist on going to trial because they will be expecting a get out of jail free card at the end of the day. is that obstruction? given that those are ongoing criminal proceedings? >> well, it certainly is in a moral sense or vernacular sense. the problem with donald trump of course, is that, like richie rich of the comics, he has perfected the art of both saying something and not saying something. and always being protected by his army of lawyers and the wealth that surrounds him. and by the way, if you look at the students of rhetoric, they will tell you that both saying something and then not saying something is a hallmark of fascist rhetoric, where you basically make your point. very fine people on both sides. and then you go in and say, but i denounce racism. so, you are sending a mixed

message. and that is what he does in terms of sending signals to people. about when he will do. does anyone have a doubt that, if god forbid, he were to get back into office, that he would go ahead and pardon all the january 6th insurrectionists and coup plotters? of course he would. so, he is sending that signal as to precisely what he would do. just as he said, if you want to kick your country, you have to fight like hell. when fraud is involved, you are allowed to use separate rules. this stuff is happening in broad daylight and i keep saying, if you rob a bank in broad daylight, you are still robbing a bank. it can't just be because it is overt, somehow you are not guilty of the offense. >> one last question for you, congressman. and i really appreciate your time tonight. we have heard over the holiday break at the end of the year, that there would be open hearings, public hearings held

by the january 6th investigation so that the public could hear from witnesses, could hear the testimony for themselves. and the fact that these -- it's not still the plan? if that your expectation? and if so, to have any guidance for us in terms of what we should expect in terms of timing? >> very much so. the only thing slowing us down, of course, is the foot bragging and the roadblocks being put up by trump's immediate entourage, mark meadows and steve bannon and roger stone. the people on the inside. but we are putting the story together and no one is more eager to get going with the hearings than we are. but we also want to be able to tell a complete story. these are not going to be fragmentary episodic hearings that just tell a little bit here in a little bit there. we will tell a complete story, beginning, middle, and and, the best that we can to explain to people exactly what happened on january 6th, the events leading up to it, why took place and

what we would need to do to prevent future political coups and insurrections leveled against our democracy. so, we plan for it to be both fine -- but also comprehensive. i would believe that it will pack a very serious punch when people put it together like that. just like it did after the impeachment trial when people were able to see the videotape of what the rioters were doing to our officers. >> congressman jamie raskin, who among many other things, is a member of the january 6th investigation, thank you for being here. >> thank you so much. >> i should also tell you that there is an absolutely incredible documentary that is going to air this weekend on msnbc that is about congressman raskin. i cannot recommend this highly enough. it is called love and the constitution. it is a fascinating illustration of this place in history that we are in right now, through the eyes of somebody with one of the most

interesting vantage point there is. congressman raskin, of course, led the impeachment inquiry into trump for inciting the riot on the capitol. he did this after losing his son tommy to suicide. this portrait of congressman raskin and this time in political history is stunning. there is a lot to be gained from watching this. it is airing here on msnbc, 10 pm eastern on sunday night. you should plan now to watch it. 10 pm eastern, sunday night. more head tonight. stay with us. head tonight. stay with us so you can breathe better. claritin-d. breathe better. >> woman: what's my safelite story? i'm a photographer. and when i'm driving, i see inspiration right through my glass. so when my windshield cracked, it had to be fixed right. i scheduled with safelite autoglass.

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said that senator lujan was found to have suffered a stroke in the cerebellum, affecting his balance as part of his treatment plan, he bought -- to ease swelling. serious stroke and urgent surgery because of it -- the good news here is that -- he is expected to make a full recovery. today, we got a hopeful new update from two of his senior staff members. they say that senator lujan is actually expected to be back in the u.s. senate in 4 to 6 weeks. -- god bless him. let it be so. in health terms, everyone is pulling for senator lujan, obviously. in political terms, his absent from the senate races the democrats rage or -- just as president biden tries to confirm a new justice to the supreme court. but again, the news is hopeful. senator ben ray lujan is expected to get back to the senate next month. let it be so.

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us for tonight. i will see you again hear from the same weird place tomorrow night. now it's time for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. >> good evening, rachel, and we're all used to it so you can drop the whole we are good thing. rachel, it seems many more of us are now qualified for the supreme court