people of texas. and to everyone else in the path of this latest winter storm. that is our broadcast for this wednesday night, with our thanks for being with us. on behalf of all my colleagues at the networks of nbc news, goodnight. he networks of nbc news, i'm sorry, i'm still at home or not the studio. i'm still in quarantine because of a covid exposure. i cannot go back to the studio yet, because i cannot wear a mask. again, there's nothing to worry about. i'm fine, i'm just poorly lit. and standing in my home office, which is weird, but it is what it is. i'm just trying to do my part to not spread covid. i'll be here tonight, and tomorrow night as well. harvard medical school, as you might imagine, is pretty consistently ranked the top medical school in the united states.

structurally, harvard is not like a lot of the other top ranked schools in the u.s.. harvard medical school isn't a time she was on hospital. for example, stanford medical school, it's also highly ranked, they view the university hospital. same goes for johns hopkins in baltimore, they've got that highly ranked medical school. also, at the university of pennsylvania, -- that's a common setup for highly ranked medical schools. that is not how it works for harvard. harvard is the top ranked, or one of the top ranked schools in the united states, year after year. but, they don't have their own individual teaching hospital. instead, harvard partners with a whole bunch of hospitals. they partnered with more than a dozen different hospitals in medical institutes, in the boston area. they use all of them as their teaching hospitals in affiliates. it's part of the reason why we

think -- it helps that more than a dozen hospitals, for mass general, to dana farber -- all of these famous hospitals and health care institutes, are not only famous in their own rights, they're teaching hospitals for harvard as well. the one with, by far the weirdest name, the hospital is called brigham and women's. before 1980, there were two different brigham hospitals in boston that were both haass bird teaching hospitals. there was also the boston hospital for women, which is a weird concept, but used to exist in medicine. in 1975, those three different harvard medical school teaching hospitals, they all emerged. they got a new name, they got the still awkward to this day name, brigham and women's. that is the name of the

hospital. it's a major teaching hospital, as i said it's affiliated with harvard. it's really pretty stages, it's really accomplished. it's actually the highest rated hospitals, not only in the united states, but in the world. a week and a half ago, at brigham and women's hospital, in boston, this happened. they had an outbreak of nazis. this is a neo-nazi group, based in worcester massachusetts. we know that because they put their email address on the threatening flyer that the group handed out at the hospital. hi protonmail, you're surveys are being used as -- for nazi recruitment efforts in the united states, did you know? the nazi group was out in front of the hospital, a week ago on saturday. they handed out fliers, targeting two doctors by name. accusing them of anti why genocidal policy. these guys lined up in their khaki pants, their matching

shirts, and their masks, and they held up his big sign. brigham in women's hospital kills whites. really? the hospital kills whites? so, the nazis are out there, in front of the hospital, on a saturday morning, defending all of the poor white people from the doctors in the hospitals that are trying to kill all the white people. why do the nazis think that the hospitals are trying to kill white people? where do they get this from? well, this happened exactly one week prior. >> the left is now rationing lifesaving therapeutics based on race. discriminating disk -- denigrating white people to determine who lives in who dies. if you're white, you don't get the vaccine. or, if you're white, you don't get therapeutics. if you're white, you have to go to the back of the line to get medical help, think of it.

if you're white you, go right back to the line. >> think of it, if you're white, you go back to the line. that was trump speaking, saturday the 15th. it was saturday the 22nd, a week later, there is the nazis. outside the hospital in boston. they have a big sign saying this hospital close white people. there's no pleased with themselves, they posted a travelog of themselves, all taking the bus in boston. handing out there nazi fires on people on the platform. the whole group of them, throwing their hail hitler nazi signs on public transportation. doing the white power hand gesture thing. oh, wait, more nazi salutes. never get tired of that one. this is massachusetts last weekend. the identity of the nazi group in question was confirmed by gba's news, we want to be joined by an investigative reporter from gba xu's been covering the story. we really are having a moment

with the stuff. last night -- that if shut down and terrorized historically black colleges and universities, over and over again, over the past month. the first threats were against more than a half dozen black colleges, beginning january 4th. then, this week, another half dozen black colleges got hit with more bomb threats. yesterday, on tuesday, at least 16 different black colleges and universities got more bomb threats. they had to send out emergency warnings, they closer campuses, they cancel classes. they tell people to shelter in place while bomb sniffing dogs, and law enforcement search for the explosives. today, along enforcement -- including nbc news that the fbi has identified multiple persons of interest in the investigation into these apparently connected bomb threats to historically black colleges and universities. we'll see if that information pans out, we'll see if there are arrest to come, we'll also see if those thrust stop or if

they just keep coming. i'll tell you, the threats against black colleges universities -- in a few communities, in communities where the bomb threats have arrived like daytona beach, florida, you can see in their front page -- the front pages in front of the full headline, greenwood mississippi. they got a bomb threat. also, marshall texas, while the college, outline safety preparations. i've gotta tell you, these are small places. in places where these colleges are right there in the community. the fact that more than two dozen hbcus in the united states of america have had bomb threats, just in the past month, including 16 in one day, this week. it kind of seems like it should be a national front page story. since, it does appear to be a sustained, a coordinated effort to terrorize a huge number of

some of the most black institutions. it seems like bigger news to me. i mentioned that daytona beach florida, is one of the places where the local paper has front page to the story and followed closely. that is one of the communities, i have to tell you, where that bomb threat to the local black college, was founded by somebody who explicitly claimed that he was in a neo-nazi. and that it was a neo-nazi who had planted the bombs. same thing happened in arkansas, the guy who phoned in bomb threats to the hbcus in arkansas said he was a neo-nazi, and that a neo-nazi group had planted c for all over the campus. like, we don't have enough going on in the country to be dealing with this her paddock outbreak of nazis everywhere. it's kind of a theme, right now. seems like there's a lot of this going on. did i mention daytona beach, and elsewhere in florida? this was suburb in orlando,

this weekend. a neo-nazi group fall -- holding signs about how jews are behind it all. berating people in suburban orlando, screaming about the jews. saying hello hitler, from the side of the road. one, point to jewish young man who was reportedly a student -- he passed by, this lovely display, according to reporting from fox 35 in orlando, the nazi demonstrators saw an israeli flag icon that he had on his license plate. they grabbed him, punched him, kicked him, pepper sprayed him, spit in his face. the young man spoke with fox 35 about the attack, and about being the descendant of holocaust survivors. the local orange county sharif in florida told local reporters that he expects it will be charges filed against those nazis who beat up that you student, as part of their roadside demonstration in orlando. sheriff said, those charges will be forthcoming, as of this

point, we know of no arrests, and no charges. i'll tell you, after that neo-nazi demonstration orlando on saturday, with a jewish student got beat up, the very next day, another group of neo-nazis turned up on a highway overpass, over the interstate in orlando. there was lots of confidence sounding reporting, immediately thereafter about how the nazis who did this demonstration, with a swastikas, and they're anti-semitic signs, and there let's go brandon, anti joe biden signs. lots of confidence sounding reporting saying, don't worry, we'll get them. it's illegal to hang a sign over overpass, so definitely those guys got in trouble. well, that confidence may have been misplaced. the seminal reporting that, while police did respond to the scene of those nazis with their swastikas banners on that overpass, police made no arrests. they let the nazis leave. how are things going in florida

these days? in addition to this rash of nazi incidents, in addition to the nazi incidents themself, it's kind of a follow on scandal that's now simmering in florida. involving the governor, ron desantis. when the nazi group showed up on saturday, screaming antisemitic abuse to people and beating up at least one jewish passerby, and then the nazis showed up the following day -- this was upsetting, right? local and state leaders, democrat and republican rush to condemn the nazis, one by one. florida's republican, rick scott, they all volunteered themselves, they came forward and condemned the events. from the governor, it's been a little weird. the only initial response from the republican governor, ron desantis, was this tweet saying, quote, do we even know that

there are nazis? yeah. they volunteered that they are. also, the swastikas banners help with that. she since deleted that tweet. you will be happy to know that after that wobbly start to this whole crisis, governor desantis did finally getting around to addressing the nazis in orlando. here's what he said. here's what's your response to the nazi demonstration in orlando. why do you hate groups who feel comfortable? >> what i'm going to say, these people. >> i'm just going to stop that there for a second. what i'm going to say, these -- right. you can sort of guess where he's going. when i'm going to say is these people -- when you think he's going to say next? these neo-nazi hate groups, they have no place in our society. no place in florida, i condemned them. you figure that's what he's going to say, right? you figure that's where the florida governor is going to

say, because that's the easiest, most straightforward question that a governor can get. please respond to the nazis, right? that's a long, slow softball. there's only one right answer, you shouldn't have to memorize it. it's easy one. please respond to the nazis. that's when he was asked, and he starts off, when i'm going to say that to these people. when you think he says next? here's where you went with it. >> when i'm going to say is, these people, these democrats who are trying to use this as some type of political issue to smear me, as if i had something to do with it. we're not playing their game. >> not going to play their game of condemning nazis? because that's a democrat game that you don't want to get dragged into? i am not kidding when i tell you that florida's governor, ron desantis, his answer

continued for another two and a half minutes. in which he talked about joe biden and inflation and immigration. he even talked about airbnb, but he never condemn the nazis. today, here's something you. debra lips that, a holocaust historian, the most cited in revered holocaust historian. president biden nominated deborah litt stat for an important job in the u.s. government. he nominated her to be the special envoy on antisemitism. this is not a job that was created for her, it's not a job that biden created, this is a job that was created by the u.s. government nearly 20 years ago, and the biden administration. it's an important job, it comes with the rank of ambassador. it's a job that i'm requires senate information. for more than six months, republican senators have refused to let her be considered. they've had a hold on her

nomination, they won't let anybody fill that job. they won't even hold hearings about putting her in the job. why? why? i don't know, any urgency around this issue at all, in our country right, now? republican senator did finally relent today. they allowed, at last, -- they will hold a confirmation hearing for her, for the antisemitism special envoy position. they finally allowed it for more after more than six months. all it took was, you know, in the past week, a bunch of neo-nazi banners flying over the interstate. more neo-nazis beating and spitting on a jewish student, because they were in the middle of screaming how hitler, when they start star of david on his car. also, all, last month there was an hour-long hostage standoff in the texas synagogue, where somebody was held -- how the jews control

everything. all it took was a flaccid little armada of neo-nazis in brown pants in, school face masks, hail hitler in their way across transportation in boston to hand out the flyers, and terrorize to doctors, whose names and photos they put on their flyers, accusing them, and their hospital, of killing white people. after their let's go brandon hero -- say the hospitals are killing white people, it's a disgrace. we have to do something about it. yeah, that's all it took. apparently, that's all the talk. just to get her confirmation hearing date. maybe now the republican senators have seen enough to maybe consider her nomination for this envoy position. you think there's been enough, or do we want to wait for more? the way things are going, i'm going to bet there's going to be more. not just in the south, not just in florida, it might be new

england, or california. it will be all over. we're having a problem with this, as a country. how are we dealing with it? part of the way we're dealing with it is by a good investigative reporting. joining us now, philip martin. senior investigative -- for gba news, an npr station in boston. it's a pleasure to have you with us. thank you very much. >> rachel, thank you. much appreciated. >> let me just ask if there's anything else that you've been able to report about this disturbing demonstration, this group that showed up at the hospital in boston. is there anything you could tell us about the size of this group, the other stuff they've been doing. >> we can talk about the size, to some degree. your summary was excellent. this is always been a minute, and fringe organization. right now, they're part of what you see is as a trend. the main streaming of extremism. this is a fringe group that is suddenly attracted new members, we know that because they had

the defamation in new england -- they said that the demonstration outside of the burgum women's hospital, that you pointed out, was larger than most of their demonstrations. on most occasions, they attract for five people. this time, they attracted about two dozen people. that is still small, when we talk about organizations, but as far as the extreme neo-nazi organization, that's significant. >> one of the things that i thought was really interesting about your reporting, philip, was to contextualize this overtime. this is not the first time these doctors have been targeted, including by name, and in this case, their photos. it's also not the first time the hospital has been targeted. i was really interested to have you put that in context, in terms of the kind of scholarly work they've done. some of the pioneering work that the doctors took pardon

was about heart failure, patients in the hospital with heart failure have better outcomes in the port in cardiology unit, rather than being treated in general medicine. these doctors were among the research team that found that, all things being equal, black and latino patients with heart failure were less likely to be put in the cardiology unit. it's a really specific racial health disparity that they identified, that they proved, that they have since been trying to fix. i just want to make sure that i understand that right. that's the first time i've known about that link between those doctors and that research. is that part of the way that they're being targeted, for that kind of work? >> that's right. you and many others, most people, would call striving for equity and equality in medicine. trying to get past the legacy of what's harry in washington called a medical apartheid. trying to create justice within

the justice -- medical field. they identified a specific problem. as you pointed out, that black and latino whose were not receiving the same quality of care, and therefore, they wanted to level the playing field within the hospital system. that has been described by neo-nazis, who are essentially -- such as donald trump, i'm afraid, that is been described as precedential treatment, and anti white. they are, indeed, echoing a sentiment that is widespread on social media, where the -- it's construed as anti white. it's a very insidious type of propaganda that we're hearing, that years ago would've been

considered fringe. it has now seeped -- not seeped, it's flooded into the mainstream. that's where we're dealing with, rachel. >> mr. martin, i tried to put this in context in terms of the medical community in boston, because boston has a big, powerful health care community. it's some of the best hospitals in the world, they attract medical talent from all over the world. now that this harassment, and targeted harassment, of individual doctors, and to a certain degree, certain hospitals, has reached this level of scary and, frankly, to my eyes, disgusting levels, is there any sign that these doctors, who have been targeted, are they getting support? are they getting back up from the broader and more powerful influential medical community in boston, and around new england? >> to a large degree, yes.

the american medical association, am, a traditionally a very conservative organization, not always known for being within the racial progress vanguard, if you will. their equity efforts are led by a doctor who has done quite a bit, aretha may bank, who is been working tirelessly to create equity, as the chief equity officer for the association. they introduced a plan to attack structural racism, within the medical field, particularly within the am a. these doctors in boston are also receiving support from fellow doctors within the teaching hospitals, but specifically, at harvard medical school. perhaps that is robust, they're working on. that they're recognizing that

there are internal problems within the organization, and they're zeroing in on them. it's the reason why this report, the gba to report that you referenced, we focus on the neo-nazis demonstrating and threatening these doctors, but we also zero in on the research. very important. that research is receiving support around the country, from doctors like manisha sharma in california, an equity networks of various sorts. various grassroots and progressive organizations that are torgut-ing the causes of inequality, and injustice within the medical field. >> part of it is being targeted and getting back up, part of it is sticking to your guns and not being intimidated out of the doing this work, no matter what anybody tries to make it into. philip martin, senior investigative reporter for gba

news. thank you for your work, and thank you for helping us understand it. >> rachel, i thank you. thank you for having me on. >> we have much more ahead, stay with us. with us i want to make my yard look as beautiful as butters, here. butters. how are you doing over there? we do both vegetables and large mouth bass. yep. we've got tons of them, don't we, buddy? there are millions of ways to make the most of your land. learn how to make the most of yours at deere.com

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breaking news tonight from "the new york times." the story we have been covering aggressively over the last few weeks is a story of republicans in a number of states forging paperwork to try to cast fake votes in the electoral college for donald trump. you can see in the headline here on this story that broke just as we were getting on the air, the memos show of trump's focus on january 6th and alternate electors. here is the lede -- 15 days after election day in 2020, a lawyer for the trump campaign in wisconsin received a memo setting out what became the rationale for an audacious strategy to put in place alternate slates of electors, slates where trump was trying to overturn his loss. the memo may not have been the first time that lawyers and allies of

trump weighed the possibility of naming their own electors in the hope they may eventually succeed in flipping the outcome in battleground states through recounts and lawsuits baselessly asserting widespread fraud. but the november 18th memo, again 15 days after the election, and another memo 13 weeks later, are among the earliest known efforts to put on paper proposals for preparing alternate electors. the memos helped to shape a crucial strategy that trump embraced with profound consequences for himself and the nation. so, we have been covering for weeks now on this show the evolving understanding of this scheme by trump and friends to falsify the election results and try to keep trump in power even though he lost. part of that is this thing that is emerging with more clarity all the time, and part of the scheme was to send fake slates of electors to congress. pro-trump republicans in at least five states that biden won got together and created

and signed forged and fraudulent certificates, declaring themselves to be the real electors for their states. that was in five states. and in two other states republicans created and sent the certificates in but they included language saying that they were just a backup in case trump prevailed in his lawsuits. but five just said, we are the real electors. and they really were not the real electors. they did not keep it secret that they were doing this at the time. but these gatherings and the documents were largely written off as a sort of kooky trump supporter group engaged in wish fulfillment fantasies or at least shenanigans. it was not until a few weeks ago that we understood that this was in fact a serious and coordinated effort across many states. the trump campaign coordinated the effort in order to get these fraudulent slates of electors in front of vice president mike pence on january 6th. it was part of that effort to pressure

mike pence to use the fake electors, to count the fake electors instead of the real ones, to overturn biden's election and declare that trump had won. so, we knew that it happened at the time but we did not understand that it was coordinated or how it fit into a larger, more serious scheme. but that has been evolving over the last few weeks. all the while, the sort of origins of the scheme, like who came up with the idea and how it was communicated to the people on the ground, to the republicans who gathered and forged documents and got them to the right places at the right time, the sort of command and control of the conspiracy, that has all been a little murky. these new memos published tonight by "the new york times" shed some light on that work, they shed some light on how this came together. you have that first memo from november 18th, 15 days after the election. it is written to a trump campaign lawyer in wisconsin to another lawyer he had apparently consulted for advice. that memo apparently lays the groundwork for the scheme, saying that the real deadline is january 6th, the last chance to overturn

biden's win in wisconsin. if we are going to do that, a slate of trump electors in wisconsin needs to meet in the wisconsin state capitol on december 14th. and they need to cast their votes for trump, because that is what the law would require real electors to do if trump had won, if it is going to be seen as valid. so that is the memo that happens from november 18th. then there is a memo between two lawyers that lays out not just what the fake wisconsin trump electors would have to do, but what they would have to do in several states, states that biden won that trump was nevertheless trying to overturn. this was less than a week before december 14th, the date when presidential

electors have to cast their votes. that second memo laid out in detail what the fake trump electors would have to do in each state, step-by-step, in order to have their forgeries appear valid and pseudo-legal under the law. we understand from this memo why some of these electors were so insistent on getting inside state capitol buildings. remember those people banging on the michigan state capitol, insisting they were the real electors? they had to get inside. apparently, in michigan and other states, electors are required to cast their vote inside the capitol in order to be considered valid. in michigan, they did not get in but in other states they did. the trump campaign was reportedly involved in booking space inside state capitols. then that second memo, the december 9th memo, also lays out how the certificates needed to be signed and where they needed to be sent, to the national archives and to the senate. that may explain why all those electors knew exactly what the certificates should look like and where they needed to send them. someone gave them all of the same advice for

exactly how to do this. it seems like every time we know just how advanced and serious planning for this plot was, new evidence emerges that shows the plot was even closer to being realized than we thought. and that it was more tightly connected to the former president and his campaign than we previously might have known. the january 6th investigation has reportedly turned to this part of the plot as they're a key part of that investigation. a member of that investigation is going to join us live, next. stay with us. wooo, yeaa, woooooo and, by switching you could even save 665 dollars. hey tex, can someone else get a turn? yeah, hang on, i'm about to break my own record. yeah. only pay for what you need.

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her testimony. quote, ms. adams testified that she married the defendant in 1994, and the couple share six children. miss adam testified she filed for divorce in 2018 due to the defendant's violent tendencies.

miss adam testify that throughout their marriage, the defendant would often brandish firearms in the family home to control her behavior and she -- according to miss adams, during the time they were married, the defendant installed at lap or it escape tunnels in the couple's backyard -- and purchased hundreds of dollars of razor wire, which the defendant intended to install -- in case the feds ever came to his door. miss adam testified that she fears for her safety and the safety of her six children should the defendant be released. that is when miss adams testified about her estranged husband. the judge agreed that that was not a portrait of a man who should be trusted to be let out on bail. based in large part on that scary testimony from the defendants estranged wife, the judge ruled that the defendant would not get bail. he would have to stay in jail, awaiting trial. and he is charged with something quite serious. the defendant described here is the leader of the oath keepers.

he was arrested last month on charges including seditious conspiracy for his role in helping orchestrate the attack on the capitol and january 6th. as i said, he is still in jail, awaiting trial. so, it was from jail today that this guy, stewart rhodes's name, gave his deposition to the january 6th investigation in congress. according to mr. rhodes's attorney, he refused to answer some of the investigators questions by pleading the fifth amendment, by invoking his rights to not self incriminate. but his lawyer did and -- his testimony lasted six hours. the other person who spoke to the january 6th investigation today is a man named jeffrey clark. he is not in jail. he is the trump justice department official who is spearheading the effort within the trump administration to try and use the u.s. justice department as part of the overthrow the government plot. use the justice department to pressure individual states that

they should flip or at least sort of rescinded the certification of their election results in states that biden won. donald trump wanted to install jeff clark as the attorney general, as the head of the justice department, so he could carry out that scheme. that did not come to pass. jeff clark is as important a person for the january 6th investigation to talk to -- and prevent the next president from taking office. investigators first tried to interview him last year. he refused to answer their questions. refused to give any substantive answers to any line of questioning. the investigation then move to hold him in contempt, but they paul's those proceedings after jeff clark said he intended to, also, plead the fifth, just like the oath keepers guy. he said he intended to assert his fifth amendment rights. the investigators planned to bring him back a second time to give him a chance to play the fifth. that ended up getting postponed

several times due to medical reasons. but today, he finally showed up. he was seen entering the capital today to meet with january 6th investigators, everyone else wearing a mask, but not him. he was there not long. like i said, stewart rhodes from jail, mostly taking the fifth, was there for six hours. jeff clark was there not even two hours. that has led to speculation today that he must have used most if not all of that time just pleading the fifth. but we do not know. joining us now is congressman jeremy raskin, he is a member of the january 6th -- it's nice to see you. >> hi, rachel, good to see you. >> so, all i know about mr. rhodes and mr. clark testifying today's public reporting. is there anything you can add to that that you are able to tell us? >> not in specific detail, but i can report to you that the committee is making remarkable progress, given donald trump's

continuing obstructionism and encouragement of others not to participate. we are really filling in the picture of what happened in the events leading up to january 6th on the day itself and we are looking at how of all these various actors were motivated and activated by trump to try to overthrow the election. >> one of the things that has been reported this week, based on your financial filings, is that it appears that former president trump, his pack sort of inexplicably dumped 1 million dollars on the organization that employs mark meadows, his former white house chief of staff. and it's so right after the investigation was formed in congress. it stands out as an expenditure because all the other expenditures from this pack are like $5,000. i think there's one that's $10,000. but here's 1 million dollars. to support mark meadows and his income. that maps awkwardly for those

of us on the outside. to what we have seen from mr. meadows, in terms of his original cooperation with the investigation, and then as you turn, to where he stopped providing information and ultimately, not only -- but he himself brought his own lawsuit against the committee. are you looking at the possibility that there was an effort to essentially tamper with witnesses, to bribe or intimidate witnesses and to not cooperating with their inquiry? >> it seems pretty clear to the members of the committee that donald trump perfected the art of dangling pardons in front of people who were in a position to give evidence about various crimes he was engaged in. and it does look like he's up to his old tricks again. that was quite a generous contribution that he offered to mr. meadows says think tank, i

think it was. and meadows is obviously in a position to report everything that donald trump was doing on that day. of course, he doesn't leave much to the imagination because over the weekend, he was openly talking about pardoning january 6th criminals. so, that was a message, not just to the more than 700 people who essentially followed his exhortation's and a storm the capital, but also to people higher up in the ranks. he is basically saying, stick with me, write it all the way through the election, i will get back in and everything will be all right. it is an absolute scandal that there are still anti self-respect-ing republican officials that are standing by him at this point. >> it's not obstruction of justice when you get that? i mean, those are ongoing criminal prosecutions that the justice department is carrying out. more than 700 of them. this morning, on cnn, there is an interview with the defense

lawyer who was representing a number of defendants from the january 6th accused, and he said, flat out, oh, yeah, that offer from the president will absolutely change the course of these prosecutions. it will reduce the chance that these defendants will give helpful information to the government. -- in compensation for their help with other prosecutions. it will increase the chance that they will insist on going to trial because they will be expecting a get out of jail free card at the end of the day. is that obstruction? given that those are ongoing criminal proceedings? >> well, it certainly is in a moral sense or vernacular sense. the problem with donald trump of course, is that, like richie rich of the comics, he has perfected the art of both saying something and not saying something.

and always being protected by his army of lawyers and the wealth that surrounds him. and by the way, if you look at the students of rhetoric, they will tell you that both saying something and then not saying something is a hallmark of fascist rhetoric, where you basically make your point. very fine people on both sides. and then you go in and say, but i denounce racism. so, you are sending a mixed message. and that is what he does in terms of sending signals to people. about when he will do. does anyone have a doubt that, if god forbid, he were to get back into office, that he would go ahead and pardon all the january 6th insurrectionists and coup plotters? of course he would. so, he is sending that signal as to precisely what he would do. just as he said, if you want to kick your country, you have to fight like hell. when fraud is involved, you are allowed to use separate rules. this stuff is happening in broad daylight and i keep saying, if you rob a bank in

broad daylight, you are still robbing a bank. it can't just be because it is overt, somehow you are not guilty of the offense. >> one last question for you, congressman. and i really appreciate your time tonight. we have heard over the holiday break at the end of the year, that there would be open hearings, public hearings held by the january 6th investigation so that the public could hear from witnesses, could hear the testimony for themselves. and the fact that these -- it's not still the plan? if that your expectation? and if so, to have any guidance for us in terms of what we should expect in terms of timing? >> very much so. the only thing slowing us down, of course, is the foot bragging and the roadblocks being put up by trump's immediate entourage, mark meadows and steve bannon and roger stone. the people on the inside. but we are putting the story together and no one is more eager to get going with the hearings than we are. but we also want to be able to

tell a complete story. these are not going to be fragmentary episodic hearings that just tell a little bit here in a little bit there. we will tell a complete story, beginning, middle, and and, the best that we can to explain to people exactly what happened on january 6th, the events leading up to it, why took place and what we would need to do to prevent future political coups and insurrections leveled against our democracy. so, we plan for it to be both fine -- but also comprehensive. i would believe that it will pack a very serious punch when people put it together like that. just like it did after the impeachment trial when people were able to see the videotape of what the rioters were doing to our officers. >> congressman jamie raskin, who among many other things, is a member of the january 6th investigation, thank you for being here. >> thank you so much.

>> i should also tell you that there is an absolutely incredible documentary that is going to air this weekend on msnbc that is about congressman raskin. i cannot recommend this highly enough. it is called love and the constitution. it is a fascinating illustration of this place in history that we are in right now, through the eyes of somebody with one of the most interesting vantage point there is. congressman raskin, of course, led the impeachment inquiry into trump for inciting the riot on the capitol. he did this after losing his son tommy to suicide. this portrait of congressman raskin and this time in political history is stunning. there is a lot to be gained from watching this. it is airing here on msnbc, 10 pm eastern on sunday night. you should plan now to watch it. 10 pm eastern, sunday night. more head tonight. stay with us.

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learned that new mexico senator ben ray lujan has recently suffered a stroke -- he checked himself into a hospital in santa fe after he felt dizziness and fatigue. -- a statement from his office said that senator lujan was found to have suffered a stroke in the cerebellum, affecting his balance. as part of his treatment plan, he bought -- to ease swelling. serious stroke and urgent surgery because of it -- the good news here is that -- he is expected to make a full recovery. today, we got a hopeful new update from two of his senior staff members. they say that senator lujan is actually expected to be back in the u.s. senate in 4 to 6 weeks. -- god bless him. let it be so. in health terms, everyone is pulling for senator lujan, obviously. in political terms, his absence

from the senate reduces the democrats razor thin advantage -- just as president biden tries to confirm a new justice to the supreme court. but again, the news is hopeful. senator ben ray lujan is expected to get back to the senate next month. let it be so. we cut to downtown, your sales rep lisa has to send some files, like asap! so basically i can pick the right plan for each employee. yeah i should've just led with that. with at&t business. you can pick the best plan for each employee and get the best deals on every smart phone.

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night. now it's time for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. >> good evening, rachel, and we're all used to it so you can drop the whole weird thing. rachel, it seems many more of us are now qualified for the supreme court than we thought because one republican senator has announced that his standard of qualification for the supreme court is that you can tell the difference between a j. crew catalog and a logbook. now, i can do that. i can do that every single time. and that is the first time i have ever heard a senator come up with qualifications for the supreme court that i meet. >> you know, there is also another thing about you that he would really like about you as a potential supreme court nominee. but i will tell you later. >> okay. i will ask our first guest