i am katy tur. the leader of isis is dead after a raid carried out by american special forces. he died after detonating a bomb as the u.s. military moved in, killing himself, his wife and his two children, another isis deputy and several civilians. a rescue organization known as the white helmets said 13 people

were killed in all. u.s. forces surrounding him early thursday morning in the syrian village not too far from the turkish border. witnesses describe a standoff pun khau waited by a blast. john kirby briefed the press on the raid a short time ago. >> we have no doubt that his death will have a blow on isis and their potential to conduct future operations. i do want to remind that they are still a threat, and we're not -- nobody is taking a victory lap here. we're going to stay at this. they still remain a threat and they still espouse this extreme ideology and intent to kill, to maim and terrorize.

>> he was named the top leader of isis in 2019 after his predecessor was killed in a u.s. raid. the president addressed the special forces operation from the white house earlier this morning. this operation is testament on america's ability to reach out and take out a terrorists no matter where they hide around the world. a strong message to terrorists around the world. we will come and find you. >> it's the biggest attack since the fall of the caliphate years ago. when the fighting finally stopped more than 500 people were dead and hundreds of prisoners escaped. the president attributed that

attack to abdullah. we go to our foreign correspondent, richard engel. >> tracking down the isis leader staying at a small syrian village near the turkish border. i have been to the village before and we managed to speak to the building's owner where the isis member was staying. it was a three story building, and he believed he was renting it to a widow and her son, and six of her relatives were staying on the second floor. that's what the owner told us. that's what he told us he believes. we also spoke to a neighbor, and he heard the operation unfold. he said at around 12:50 local time, that's the time he quoted, he said he heard helicopters moving in, intense, flow-flying helicopters, so loud he thought it would take the roof of his building off. then a few minutes went by,

didn't hear anything. apparently the helicopters were then landing and forces were approaching on foot. he said he did not know what was going on at the time. this part of syria is controlled by islamists and it's an active war zone and he thought maybe it was a russian invasion, maybe an invasion by the syrian regime. didn't know what to expect but he knew a helicopter-mounted operation was under way. then a few minutes after the helicopters passed overhead, he started to hear a voice in arabic, a military translator using a loud speaker to call out to people inside this three-story building. he said the man had an iraqi accent and was pleading with the people inside to surrender, telling them there was no chance to escape, that they were completely surrounded, that they would be attacked, that their lives were at risk, and saying, men, women, children, come out, you will not be harmed if you come out. the witness said that this continued for about 30 minutes

at which stage there started to be an exchange of fire, a small arms fire, ak-47, pistol fire came towards the u.s. forces and the u.s. forces firing back in an exchange of fire was relatively brief, and then another attempt of negotiations with the negotiator pleading with the people inside saying you will be attacked, you will be killed if you don't come out. if you come out now, you will not be harmed. at one stage the negotiator addressed a woman in arabic, and at that point the language changes, and he said if you don't want to come outside, save yourself, at least let your children go. he said that as far as he could tell, people did not take this offer to leave although there are some reports that some civilians may have left, and then at the end of the operation that lasted about two hours, he

heard an explosion and apparently the isis leader killed himself along with the other people in the building. >> richard, thank you so much. joining me now is nbc news chief correspondent, kristin welker, and courtney cube yea. the briefing by john kirby was long and extensive and detailed all things considered. tell me what we learned? >> we learned more about the raid. we knew a bit already based on how the day unfolded. u.s. military helicopters landed a couple kilometers away from the building, and then they proceeded on foot, and then they used bullhorns to say to come outside, and before the u.s. military entered the building there was a large explosion on

the third floor. that was the head of isis detonating himself. he was killed, as was his wife and two children. we also now know that the second floor of that building, there was an isis lieutenant, some sort of a deputy along with his wife and a child, all three were killed. so the u.s. military spent about two hours on the ground, and that may seem like a pretty long time but that's because they do what is called sight exploitation, anything they can could be operational intelligence that they could use to go after future isis targets or figure out something about isis that might help them, and then when they went back to the helicopter site, one of them was not safe to play so the military detonated that on site. the pentagon calling this a successful mission, and they killed the isis leader and his

deputy in the daring raid overnight, something they planned for months and president biden gave them the approval for it this tuesday in the oval office, katy. >> they had the intelligence for ladle bit of time, at least. the planning has been months in the making. what ultimately gave president biden the confidence to say yes today? >> well, just to take a step back and pick up where courtney left off, katy, president biden was initially briefed on this in early december. we are told that commanders brought him a table top replication of this site, this warehouse and this building where this isis leader was housed. so he could see how complex this mission would be, and what would be needed to carry it out with limited civilian deaths. so he was briefed on it over time and then ultimately became confident, we are told, in the operational details, that they

could carry this out. it is worth noting that this was carried out on the ground. this was not an air strike, because they wanted to minimize civilian casualties. so that is why they made this very risky maneuver, but the president ultimately felt confident that this was the safest way to proceed for those citizens on the ground. the pentagon the isis leader set off a vest eventually blowing himself up and members of his family, so they continue to look into those types of details. that is what ultimately gave president biden the confidence to move forward with this one, a senior administration official saying he was directly involved throughout, and this comes against the backdrop of the

president being under intense scrutiny for other foreign policy matters, the with draw from afghanistan last summer, and now as he deals with a new foreign policy crisis, the tensions between russia and ukraine, and this is a moment where the pentagon can say this was at this point in time was a success based on the ultimate outcome. >> cory, that's what i want to ask you about. we watched the unfolding events in afghanistan, and we watched the drone strike which we told at the time killed a terrorists, killed somebody who was plotting an attack against u.s. soldiers, but it was not, it was civilians and a family and kids. did that factor into how this was done today? i know john kirby was asked about it at the pentagon and he kind of danced around it and said we always try to limit civilian casualties. >> i think that's true. i think the american military

record for ethical use of force is quite strong, but of course they are under scrutiny after the mistakes they made in afghanistan and more importantly their willingness to acknowledge their fault, it had to be forced on them by intrepid journalists holding them accountable. it sounds like this raid was well planned and well executed. the president ought to be involved in major military decisions, and decisions like attacks on terrorists leaders especially if they are going on in places like syria, where, you know, there is active conflict. it sounds like this is what it is supposed to look like. the president deeply involved, and careful planning and execution, and destroying things when they are not working, like the helicopter, and taking reasonable precautions to avoid civilian casualties. >> kirby was also asked about

the information that was gathered at a site like this. talk to me about what the american government would be looking to collect after -- well, after an explosion, what can they collect? when they are targeting a high profile extremist like this, the head of isis, what do they want to find? >> you know, it's like a crime scene, anything forensic you can find that might be useful, something that connects people, you know, address books, computer drives, family photos. anything you can find might give you greater ability to make connections and to understand the linkages that -- you know, what we used to call spider webs of people's interactions, which is so important in unraveling terrorists networks. >> kirby also made a point to say this is a big deal for the

organization and said it would really harm them but was careful to say this is not a victory lap and we should not say we defeated isis in its entirety. from your experience, what do you expect to happen next? >> well, what i hope will happen is that they will continue to keep up the pressure on isis leadership and isis operations. one of the reasons the american government has been so successful in preventing terrorists attacks inside the united states has been because leaders of terrorists organizations have to worry that they are not safe, where they are living and organizing and training, and that's why our involvement in places like syria helps to keep the united states safe. i think that the next steps are keeping up the pressure on isis, but not just on isis, and that's something president biden has

tried to narrow the focus of our counterterrorism efforts and that's probably a mistake. >> ladies, thank you very much. i appreciate all of your time and all of the reporting and the expertise. still ahead, president biden is in new york to address the latest threat to his president including the staged aftermath of an explosion and images of corpses. something like wag the dog. later, spotify's joe rogan's problem is not going away, as david crosby will join me in just a few minutes. will join mn will join mn just a few minutes so you only pay for what you need. isn't that right limu? limu? limu?

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the answer is not to abandon our streets. that's not the answer. the answer is to come together

policing communities, building trust and making us all safer. the answer is not to defund the police, it's to give you the tools, the training, the funding to be partners, to be protecters and community needs you, and know the community. >> president biden is in new york this afternoon where he is paying a visit to nypd headquarters at 1 plaza, and he's with the mayor of new york to increase funding for law enforcement and aggressive enforcement of gun safety laws. crime is up 38% here compared to january of last year. this visit is the president's most visible effort to date to portray the white house and the democratic party as tough on crime head into a mid-term. joining me now is nbc news correspondent, gabe gutierrez,

and also david rohde of the new yorker, executive editor and msnbc contributor as well. you spoke to the mayor of new york city earlier today and what did you learn about the effort to combat the rise in violent crime. another officer in the city was shot yesterday, the same day that we were holding a funeral for an officer shot a couple weeks ago. >> yeah, that's right, katy. eric adams is really going out of his way to portray himself as an ally of the president. basically he called himself the biden of brooklyn and referred to him as that's my dude a couple days ago, and democrats are shifting their message a bit and are trying to appear tough on crime because of the rising numbers, and just 24% of americans are satisfied with national policies to control or reduce crime.

mayor eric adams has been rolling out a blueprint to combat violence here in new york city, and it involves deploying more cops on the street, and also the facial recognition technology, and the white house was emphasizing the administration's attempt to crack down on so-called ghost guns. i sat down with eric adams and asked him about distancing himself from a progressive slogan. take a listen. has defunding the police work? >> no, it does not, and it's the wrong bumper sticker. public safety is not a bumper sticker. we need to do an analysis with police enforcement agencies, and if you are inside i need to know why you are inside and if you are not, i need you to put on the bullet proof vest and duty job that new yorkers hired you for, to protect us against violent people.

>> democrats certainly talking tough on crime during an election year. republicans have been seizing on this issue and, of course, will continue to do so ahead of the elections later this year. >> david, it is an election year, it's a mid-term year and crime is already a topic talked about by both democrats and republicans, and you wrote about it in "the new yorker," you said the republican officials describe the country as lawless, and mayors mostly scoff at such efforts, and efforts to defund police departments largely stalled but conservatives continue to highlight the issue as evidence that democrats are soft on crime. you see president biden here today standing along the mayor of this city and is trying to portray himself as somebody taking this seriously, and they are trying to distance

themselves from defund the police, and this is tough to do when you are president biden, you want to keep both parts of the democratic party together head into the mid-term. >> yeah, there are big divisions from centrist democrats and anti-gun units had been disspapbd, and one dynamic is there are democratic mayors in several cities that have seen drops in the crime rate, and many are black mayors, actually, and the cities are st. louis, dallas, charlotte, and what they found there is that targeting the organizations and individuals that are responsible for large amounts of gun crime helps, and then in the second

key part, it's being open and transparent with the community and investing and engaging with the community to regain the trust that correctly disappeared after the murder of george floyd. on the local level, you see a democratic road map that biden is trying to embrace. >> let's look at the poling on this issue, and handling of gun violence, 69% disapprove, and handling of crime, 64% disapprove. those are bad numbers for president biden, and his approval rating in general is not so great and part of the issue is because crime is up in at least some big cities. i know you mentioned a few where it was down, but the perception that things are getting out of control post pandemic is not doing him any favors. >> you're right. those are serious numbers. that's a real problem for the president between the economy

and this handling of crime, it's a real issue. part of the problem has been a pandemic. i spoke to the deputy attorney general and the justice department officials about it, and officials hope the court system, which has been, you know, slow to a crawl because juries could not meet to hold trials, and that getting back on track will help, and many teenagers were out on the streets, and that led to an increase in youth crime, and there will be more social supports, more drug treatment, aa meetings to help, and if the pandemic can ease, hopefully crime will ease and maybe even the economy. but it's a really -- it's a major political threat to president biden. >> i said post pandemic, and i realize we are not post pandemic, we are very much still in the throes of it, although thankfully at least here the positivity rates are starting to go down again. thank you both so much for

joining me, gentlemen. president biden is addressing gun violence in new york today on the other side of the country while he is doing that, a city is take matters into its own hands. san josé will be the first city in the nation to require gun orders to pay a fee and carry liability insurance. joining me now from san josé is jake ward. jake, explain this to us. >> reporter: well, katy, you and i are used to the idea as americans in order to drive a car we have to carry insurance, and that's, of course, in part because we are trying to detproeu the costs of more than 40,000 auto-related deaths every year, and firearms cause at least 45,000 deaths every year and until now there has not been a liability law -- liability insurance requirement around it. now, san josé is experimenting with that idea. in may of 2021, a city worker killed ten people here in san

josé with three handguns legally purchased. >> the shooter targeting his co workers. >> this is a very dark moment for our city. >> and the mayor said that is only the most visible form of gun violence in his city. >> we had in the 13-day period after that horrific shooting at the rail yard, we had eight gun-involved deaths or serious injuries, and this is what it is to be in america right now. >> every single shooting costs cities like san josé money. according to one independent study, as much as $35 million a year in san josé in emergency, medical and court costs. so san josé is now going to require roughly 55,000 gun owners to carry firearm liability insurance and pay an annual $25 fee to support violence reduction and mental health programs. >> it's not going to affect the criminals at all because they will keep doing what they are doing. >> this is a constitutional right, and we don't do this with other constitutional rights.

>> that's the argument made in the lawsuit against san josé. >> it's the same as you being required to pay a fee and get insurance just to air this show. >> are you concerned this could somehow become a national standard? >> if our lawsuit doesn't overturn this, it's possible that other cities and states will seek legislation like this in an effort to curtail its citizens practicing their second amendment rights and of course we want to stop this right now. >> the mayor says san josé respect the second amendment but cannot bear its costs. >> it doesn't require our taxpayers to subsidize that right. >> reporter: now, katy, the plaintiffs in this case say you cannot put an arbitrary cost on a constitution right, but the mayor points out constitutional

rights are not unlimited. you and i are not allowed to swear on the air, there are rules around it, and money is spent here in california dealing with gun violence and he thinks that money could be put to better use. >> you can't just say whatever you want under the name of free speech in any scenario. you are right about that. one year after a major power failure, an ice storm is hitting texas. will the state's grid hold? the pentagon confirms russia may try and wag the dog in order to invade ukraine. to invade ukraine. for softer clothes that are gentle on your skin, try downy free & gentle. just pour into the rinse dispenser and downy will soften your clothes without dyes or perfumes. the towel washed with doy is softer, fluffier, and gentler on your skin. try downy free & gentle.

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boost® high protein also has key nutrients for immune support. boost® high protein. mission control, we are go for launch. boosum, she's eatingalso has the rocket.ts ♪♪ lunchables! built to be eaten. pentagon. u.s. officials have revealed they have evidence that russia planned to use a false flag operation as a pretext to invade ukraine. details of the plot were initially reported by both "the washington post" and the "new york times." >> we do have information that is it -- that the russians are likely to want to fabricate a

pretext foreign invasion. one option is the russian government, we think, is planning to stage a fake attack by ukrainen military or intelligence forces by russian sovereign territory. we believe russia would produce a graphic propaganda video that would include corpses and actors that would be depicting mourners and images of destroyed locations as well as military equipment at the hands of ukraine. >> and as administration officials continue to digest the details of this plot, the first of 3,000 u.s. troops are being deployed to poland and romania. hearings were held on capitol hill on the house sides to discuss the deployments and the latest efforts to alert an invasion. >> we have to be strong, supporting our allies, our nato allies letting them know we are all in this together and we want to make sure that we are with

them. i think that's the signal we have to send. >> nbc news moscow producer, matt bodnor joins me from moscow. what are you hearing from russians that is happening in ukraine? >> reporter: basically, we are seeing a few things. the united states right now with nato, with ukraine, is trying to create various pretexts of their own to try and justify kind of several different kind of malintent things, such as sanctions against russia, and the word containment is being thrown around. one of the big problems for the united states as it tries to message around this situation is almost everything that is said passes through a filter and it's the russian state media and it has complete dominance and monopoly on the flow of information in russia, and you can't get a message to the

russian people that doesn't pass through the filter, and everything is being used as an example of the russian government sitting there saying these guys are trying to keep us down and they are trying to prevent our development and are trying to dictate the terms of a uni polar world. >> what you talk to russians, what are they taking from the messages? what is the opinion of people on the street? >> so one of the main things you hear if you talk to russians on the street, war is impossible and we are brother nations with ukraine, and that's correct, and one of the reasons this story that we are hearing about a false flag video getting so much traction is because it's the kind of thing russia would need were it serious about the intention of going into ukraine. you can't look at the troops on

ukraine's border right now and wave it away and assume nothing is going on, but russians themselves simply will not accept something packaged as an overt offensive action, defensive, when i say defensive, it's a direct attack on russia particularly in the rebel regions of eastern ukraine, and this is the kind of thing they are dealing with right now, it has to be defensive if they do anything. >> thank you so much. with me now is the former ambassador to ukraine, william taylor. ambassador, thank you so much for being here. this idea that russia might stage a false flag video showing mourners and dead bodies, and a wag the dog situation, for those that have seen the movie. does that seem out of touch to you or out of step to you from

what the russians would be capable of? >> not at all, katy. they can do this. they have done this. they are the masters of deception. they are the masters of provoking what they are trying to do. it's so interesting what matt said, because i think he's exactly right. i think the russian people do not support an attack, an invasion of ukraine. the russians think of ukrainians as their brothers and cousins. it's so interesting that the media, that the government-run, the russian-government media is focusing so heavy not on the ukrainians like in 2014, and in 2014, the ukrainians were the villains and nazis and the fascists, but now the villains, as i hear matt and other reporters, the villains now are the united states. it's not the ukrainians. i think that is an indication that the kremlin is a little

worried that the russian people will not support an invasion, so false flags and these other tactics they hope will generate this enthusiasm for an invasion, it's just not there. i think they will have a hard time. >> so sorry to interrupt. the delay caught me. i wonder when the united states comes out and says, hey, we think they might do this and they put it out there to the world, does that message get to russia? does it penetrate russian media, do russians hear it or is there too much of a wall there? >> i think that's right. i think there is a wall, and, of course, the main audience of the u.s. story, the u.s. message, is the rest of the world. it certainly is the united states, but in europe and ukraine, the international community is watching what's going on in russia and they are watching what the russians are

doing on the borders and in ukraine. i mean, as this report indicates there are russian operatives in ukraine. the world is watching this. this is a message that says that the russians are the ones who are provoking and trying to provoke the ukrainians into taking that step. the ukrainians are being very calm. >> yeah. >> i met with president president zelensky on monday. they are not being rattled by what is going on border. >> i have more questions for you when we have more time to talk about this, on a day that is not as crazy as a day like this. >> thank you. coming up, started with

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and celebrities are pulling their content from spotify amid the controversy surrounding joe rogan. neil young sparked that last week and others are following him. while we always value different points of view, knowingly spreading misinformation during the deadly pandemic could have deadly consequences. spotify is not backing down. on a company call, ceo daniel oct, said they don't change their policies on any media cycle or call from anybody else. spotify paid joe rogan more than

$100 million for the exclusive rights to his podcast, and critics say he sometimes misses misinformation about covid to his listeners. david, it's really good to have you. you want to remove your music. it's complicated because you don't own the rights to it but you asked your record label to try and do that. tell me, what do you want to see from spotify to put your music back on it? what is a good result here? >> you know, i don't feel i have the right to tell spotify what to do, or joe rogan. i think they both have a right to, you know, express themselves however they want. we are only saying we don't like that content, we don't like some of the things he does, and i don't like him using the n-word.

i don't like a lot of things about him, but my point is, i have a right to not want my music on the same platform as his, his program. that's the only right that i think i have. i don't have a right to tell spotify what to do or tell joe rogan what to do. he might even be a good guy, i don't know. i don't know like some of the things he has said so i don't want to be on there with him. >> i wonder, and i understand you don't have the right to tell spotify what to do, but by pulling your music you are making a statement and don't want to be associated with that, and totally understand that, but is there a way for a company like spotify to try and straddle the controversy here. if they pulled the episodes, would that be a good thing? i mean, they are trying to put a disclaimer on it. is that enough to cool things

off? or is just the fact that they host him, period, just too much? >> you know, i don't think they want to get into managing content. they don't want to be in a position of having to tell people what is right and wrong. they want to sell you stuff. they want to sell you joe rogan and that's fine. i don't have a problem with that. i just don't want to be on there with him. i think that's how neil feels. i know it's how steve feels, and i have spoken to both of them and communicated with them and we all just don't feel that that's a place we want to be. you have to understand, i have been in a fight with spotify for a long time because they don't pay us. >> how much money do you make when your music is played on

spotify, how much money do you make off that? >> if you did it all year, i might be able to buy you a cup of coffee. >> really? >> yeah. it's bad. it's really bad. >> you're not in a position to need that money, but there are some up and coming artists that certainly are not in the same position that don't have the, you know, the history and the music business behind them, the touring behind them, the financial stability that that would provide. i wonder if spotify changed its model and became friendlier to musicians, would that change how you feel about them? >> yes. if they paid us fairly -- you got to understand, it's tough for us. there they are, they are making billions with a "b" literally, and they are paying us a penny -- less than a penny a play, a very tiny percentage. i used to have two ways of

making a living, right? selling records and touring. so along comes streaming and i can't pay for records anymore, and i was that i can still tour. along comes covid, and i can't tour. that's why i sold my publishing to irving. i didn't have any choice. they removed my sources of income. >> i heard that a lot. my mom's a musician and she complains about this sort of thing, and she has a lot of friends who are musicians and the loss of touring during the pandemic has been devastating. one last thing before you go, you want taylor swift to speak up on this. you have been tweeting about it. >> no, i don't. >> you don't? dy did i get that wrong? ? i put an explanation. i don't want her to step in with us. i wanted to seek her advice

because she's the only one -- >> oh, god it. >> she's kicked spotify's butt pretty spectacularly, and i was very proud of her for doing it. >> you want to talk to her about it and get advice about it. i'm sorry for mangling your -- >> i have great respect for her. >> she is a tough cookie, and she knows what she wants. she's in the afraid to back town. she's amazing. as are you, sir. thank you so much for coming on the show. we appreciate all the time you give us, and cannot wait to see you go back on tour again once covid finally releases us from the stranglehold. >> thank you. >> david crosby, thanks so much. >> thank you. and coming up next, another winter storm blasts texas, and the state's fragile power grid. so you only pay for what you need. isn't that right limu? limu? limu? sorry, one sec. doug blows several different whistles.

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a massive winter storm system is impacting people from maine to texas where ice is challenging the state's already fragile power grid. >> reporter: after hours freeszing rain and sleet fell, it has turned to snow here in north texas, and this is all part of winter storm landon which is certainly making its presence known across a vast portion of the lone star state. a winter storm warning still in effect for a major of the metropolitan areas that could be seeing sub freezing temperatures for well above 24 hours, and that is the concern because it was this time last year that the state faced an absolute power crisis when the grid failed

during winter storm yuri leaving texans cold and in the dark for days on end. as it stands right now, state officials have assured the public that 99% -- at least 99% of power generators have not only been inspected, but they are fully operational, and working throughout this storm. there is power reserves that are currently well in place to handle the demand, which isn't anticipated to peak until friday morning. that's when temperatures will be dipping dangerously low. the windchills potentially looking to drop below zero in some cases, and that is why officials are urging everyone to stay in, stay off the roads if possible because with this freezing rain that's fallen, it has started to accumulate on roadways really all across vast portions of texas, and as that builds up, it's not necessarily the snow that's the concern, but it will be that glaze of ice that can be absolutely treacherous for anyone trying to

travel around. we'll send it back to you. >> morgan, thank you very much. everyone, good luck out there. that is going to do it for me today. hallie jackson picks up our coverage next. h hallie jackson picks up our hallie jackson picks up our coverage next.overies, but get there faster, with better outcomes. with app, cloud and anywhere workspace solutions, vmware helps companies navigate change-- meeting them where they are, and getting them where they want to be. faster. vmware. welcome change. we just moved. so there's millions of - dahlias in bloom. over nine acres.

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the raid, the reaction, the new reality with the pentagon confirming what they're calling a significant blow to the isis terror network. that overnight strike by u.s. special forces killing the leader of the group. we're live at the pentagon with new details, and at the white house with the latest. plus, the other military front, u.s. forces now in the air to eastern europe. look at this. nbc news there as they start heading out to help deter war between russia and ukraine with our new reporting coming in on a false flag plan apparently by the kremlin to try to justify some kind of invasion. we've got the head of the senate foreign relations committee. senator bob menendez here to talk about all of