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man. protesters blocked traffic in downtown minneapolis, supporting locke's family and calling for the officer to be fired and arrested. police released body cam video of the incident. it's disturbing as we go to miguel almaguer to tell us what happened. >> reporter: in under ten seconds a minneapolis s.w.a.t team quietly unlocks an apartment door. storms inside with a no-knock warrant, kicking a couch where a man lying under a blanket with a gun is quickly shot and killed. during the chaos, it's unclear if 22-year-old amir locke who was not named on the search warrant and appears to have no criminal history was ever aware it was police who were storming into the apartment before 7:00 a.m. wednesday.

>> these events happened very rapidly, and as there's a gun emerging in your direction, you're forced to make a split second decision about when it's a threat. >> reporter: with at least three shots fired by police who also released this screen grab showing a gun, locke's family compares the no-knock warrant to the botched kentucky police raid that left brie on na taylor dead, from the same police department under scrutiny for george floyd's murder. >> he was executed by the mpd and i want the police officer that murdered my son to be prosecuted and fired. >> reporter: though authorities promise a transparent investigation, community activists who work with police and were at their press conference fear that will never come. >> this is what i would call the anatomy of a cover up. this is unacceptable. >> reporter: another death on video at the hands of police. miguel almaguer.

nbc news. >> joining me now deray mckesson, cofounder of campaign zero, with black lives matter organizer and host of pod save the people. you're the guy to do it right now because you were one of the activists who helped shape breonna's lie in kentucky, that happened in 2020, you are working with the mayor of minneapolis. you are reviewing and going to revise city policy following this particular incident. so deray, what is your reaction to what happened and what do you hope to accomplish with the mayor? >> dr. pete was one of the people who helped craft breonna's law in louisville. we did help with laws. there were six states, all of them we worked on, inspired by the incredible work in louisville. in minneapolis, there's a lot of stuff that can happen immediately. he was killed within nine seconds n. maryland, the law says the police have to wait at

least 20 seconds, we would push for even 30 seconds, and we have a whole rubric on our web site, and it's out of 15 points, the minneapolis directors are a 5.5 out of 15. so in that conversation with the mayor of minneapolis we talked about how to get to 15. this has to be the plan. that's the only way to save people's lives. the statement police put out initially. they said they loudly announced their presence, that they said it repeatedly, and you saw that footage like i did, that did not seem like a loud announcement. >> if someone's fast asleep, i mean, you know, the startling nature of being woken up like that with nine seconds to go between asleep and being shot dead, let's look at also where this happened. it happened just miles away from where nearly two years ago george floyd was killed by police. are you surprised, deray, that no-knock warrants are still legal in the city. they were until yesterday when the mayor imposed a moratorium.

>> yeah, so i'm not surprised. here's the thing. no-knock warrants actually don't really matter as the end all be all. the police don't need a no-knock warrant to break into people's houses. they can use a regular search warrant to do it. which is why when we worked on the laws, we want to restrict the execution of all search warrants so they cannot turn into things like this. what we say is 30 seconds is the minimum. we assume compliance. we think that almost all situations, if there are 20 police officers outside your house, and they're asking you to come out or do something, that people are going to comply, and this video is a good example. 30 seconds for most people is not enough time to get up from what they're doing in their house to get to the door. but he got no seconds. they immediately went in in the middle of the early morning, startled him and shot immediately. there's some real things that can happen. like i said, first is a time limit would be huge. the minneapolis policy acknowledges high risk warrants but doesn't define what they

look like or mean. the application is weak in minneapolis, and that should change. maryland is the best state in the country and has robust restrictions on no-knock raids, and they just passed it last legislative cycle. >> what i love about talking to you, you're looking at this analytically, and trying to put together legislation or police practice that will keep this from happening again, but what was your reaction when you heard this had happened again. >> i was stunned that it happened in minneapolis again of all places. the police department that killed george floyd and then you see this happen. wow, it's a reminder for me that the police are unbelievably durable institution for better or worse and that we have to keep fighting that. it's the structural changes that moment by moment take away the power of the police to inflict wrong and i'm hopeful that this this shift will be swift, that the moratorium on no-knock warrants is a good first step

but the foundational policy on law in minneapolis must change. i'm hopeful the law in minnesota will change to mimic what we have in progressive places like maryland. even virginia placed restrictions on no-knock raids. >> yeah. so in this situation, what do you make of the fact that amir locke was holding that gun while sleeping on that couch, a gun that he bought legally, he had a permit for it. how much does that complicate the police actions? >> it doesn't complicate this at all to me. he was a registered gun owner, he had the right to have that gun in his property. he wasn't shooting out the window, shooting at anybody. he didn't have hostages, none of that was even reported. the police created the crisis. that's the whole thing about these search warrants is that the people are creating chaos. the chaos didn't just emerge. the police go into a situation and make it dangerous. they make it chaotic, and they have total control to do the opposite. so again, like the concrete things like waiting time, making

a really high bar for these. the first report say he wasn't listed on the search warrant. that's what we find time and again, police go in and create chaos. they're not responding to chaos. they're creating it. >> good point, deray mckesson, always good points, thank you so much. good luck with everything in minneapolis. keep us abreast of what you figure out there. thank you. to the day's other major stories developing this hour, former vice president mike pence calling out his former boss, taking his strongest stance yet, criticizing donald trump over his lies about january 6th. i heard this week that president trump said i had the right to overturn the election. president trump is wrong. >> pence's comments came hours after republican national committee, though, voted to censure two republican lawmakers from taking part in the house investigation into the january 6th attack. meanwhile, tensions simmering between russia and ukraine as another shipment of u.s. military cargo has arrived in

kyiv today, with thousands of russian troops along ukraine's border. "the new york times" reports according to ukrainian armed forces, portions of the russian military have reached full combat strength and appear to be in the final stages of readiness for military action should the kremlin order it. president biden has sent more than 3,000 u.s. troops to nato allies in eastern europe and keeping another 8,500 soldiers on stand by. we are discussing that with the chair of the house committee. glenn youngkin's executive order making masks optional has been blocked. the judge found the seven school districts that sued were likely to succeed with their arguments that youngkin did not have the authority to overrule local school boards. also new today, reaction to some good economic numbers, and for that, let's go to nbc's josh lederman who's traveling with the president in wilmington, delaware, as he frequently is on the weekends, so josh, what is

the latest on this really stronger by a long shot than expected jobs report? >> the white house, alex, breathing a sigh of relief after they were really bracing for a dismal jobs report expecting that this report would show very few jobs added last month, or even, according to many economists had predicted a reduction in jobs in january because of the surge in the omicron variant with the u.s. reporting more than 800,000 cases per day in january. there was a lot of expectation that that was going to really be disruptive to the pace of hiring and create some really negative economic effects but instead, we had this shocking jobs report, 467,000 jobs added, way more than pretty much anyone had predicted, illustrating that every successive wave of the coronavirus is having less and less of an effect on the economy, as the country starts to learn how to deal with covid

from an economic standpoint, and make sure people can still go to work, businesses still making the choice to try to hire up workers, because they are anticipating that this is sort of going to ebb in the next few weeks. they are look to go that point in time when we are going to have some of this behind us and still making the decision to try and hire as many people as possible. president biden taking what i would describe as half a victory lap as he spoke yesterday about the jobs report. here's what he had to say. >> still going to work on gas prices. we're still going to work on the food prices but in the meantime, we can deliver that peace of mind to the american people and give them a little breathing room. the united states is once again in a position to not only compete with the rest of the world but out compete the rest of the world once again. >> so you hear president biden there nodding to the rising price of gases and food. that's because he has been

unable so far despite the positive jobs numbers, unemployment ticking up just a tich to 4%. still historically low. he's still facing head winds of voters who are not buying by and large, alex, that the economy is moving in the right direction. there's a lot of focus on the inflation issues, on the continuing supply chain issues, and so that's really where president biden's task is from now to november. because voters vote based on their pocket books and the tasks for democrats is to find out how they can convince voters up until november that the economy really is moving in the right direction. >> okay. josh lederman from wilmington, thank you, josh, for that. a united stand, russia and china together in opposition to nato in the u.s. what impact will their new union have on the west's resolve? have on of infectionsolveease k and lower your ability to fight them. before treatment, your doctor should check you

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a new reason why tensions are growing between russia and

ukraine. ukrainian military officials tell "the new york times" portions of russian troops along the ukraine border have reached full combat strength and appear to be in the final stages of readiness for military action shoulded kremlin order it. nbc's matt bradley is joining us from ukraine, and so, let's talk about what's happening on the front lines there. what's the story and how ready are they? >> well, you know, we were talking to a lot of soldiers out there, and you know, the situation for them, obviously, is remarkably normal, and that's the thing that is getting lost in all of this, alex. for a lot of ukrainians, this is business as usual. it's been going on for eight years. a hungarian foreign minister called one of the saddest places in europe, it stands as a monument to the, you know, enduring terror of this war that really has been going on for a lot longer than a lot of our audience, you and i have been worried about this. here's our report.

>> reporter: this border crossing on europe's eastern fringe stands as a monument to displacement and despair. what's life like on the other side? >> it's like we are indigenous people being oppressed by colonizers. we are not allowed to go either here or there. >> reporter: on the other side, the self-declared people's republic, a russian led separatist region has been at war with ukraine since 2014. for the thousands of people who have to cross back and forth on this bridge into russian controlled territory every day, war with russia isn't imminent, it's their past, present and future. what is the significance of this crossing? >> translator: this check point is very important for the people living on both sides because it's the only one that's still functioning. most people cross the check point to get their pension, get what's needed, visit relatives or buy groceries. >> reporter: the west pledges of

support have always rung hollow. is there anything else you want to tell the world about this? >> reporter: tell biden please don't send troops to shoot around here. we'll deal with our own problems. >> reporter: so here in eastern ukraine, of course, alex, as i was saying, this situation of war isn't something people are bracing for. it's something they live with on a day-to-day basis. alex. >> yep, that was sad. and very revelatory. thank you for that, matt bradley, appreciate it. joining me now is washington congressman, adam smith, chairman of the house armed services committee. welcome back to the broadcast. it's good to see you. let's dive into the escalating tensions between russia and ukraine here. what is the primary objective of the u.s. troops. they have been sent out of fort bragg, being deployed to eastern europe, and as "the new york times" is reporting, portions of

russia's army are in the final stages of readiness for military action, should the kremlin order it. under what kind of circumstances could we see more of these 8,500 troops waiting on alert to be sent in? >> the purpose to answer your e first question is to deter russia from invading ukraine, and there's a variety of ways that this helps. putin's whole goal is to divide the west, drive nato, and drive us out of eastern europe, and what we're showing, and it's one of the better moves by the biden administration is that this is going to have the opposite effect. we are going to be more present in eastern europe as a result of this. primarily because poland, romania, the baltic states, they have always had a high level of fear about russia. now that's going up. they want our help. they want nato's help. to the extent we increase our presence and strengthen our ties are eastern european nations,

that shows putin, his effort to redominate eastern europe, to bring back the soviet empire is not going to work. it's going to have the opposite effect. that's the big goal is to deter the invasion by showing putin that it's not going to advance his interests. >> does that apply to the potential for 8,500 troops being sent in, more? >> potentially, yeah, i mean, i don't know about the specific numbers, you know, and how we've moved the troops around, but the overall point is, you know, as we all know, ukraine is not a part of nato, but the other countries in eastern europe, romania, poland, latvia, estonia, they are, and we are going to protect them. the basic principle at play, and we could get lost in a debate about what we could have done to better appease russia or what russia should be doing in eastern europe, the basic principle is democracy, and individual sovereignty, that countries like ukraine and all the others in eastern europe ought to be able to choose

whether or not they want to do business with the european union, whether or not they want to be part of nato, who their allies are, and we ought to stand up to that principle, and russia has a long history of dominating and subjugating countries in eastern europe, and they want help to stop that from happening again. >> so the u.s. has accused russia of planning to release a graphic video of a fake attack by ukraine as some kind of an excuse to justify an invasion. take a listen to what state department spokesperson ned price said during an exchange with a reporter. >> what evidence do you have to support the idea that there is some propaganda film in the making? >> this is derived from information known to the u.s. government, intelligence information that we have declassified. >> okay. where is it? where is this information? >> it is intelligence information that we have declassified. >> where is it? where is the declassified information? >> i just delivered it. .

>> no, you made a series of allegations. >> so what do you, sir, know about the newly declassified information and its release, and do you have a full understanding from the administration on this evidence? >> yeah, i think there are two things that are important here. one is to understand that certainly russia and putin, they live in the disinformation space. we've certainly seen that in our elections, elections throughout europe, i mean, they're spreading stories now about ukraine that are blatantly false, implying that ukraine is still, like, nothing but a bunch of nazis, they're not really a country. disinformation is the coin of the realm for putin, and we've seen that over and over again, and there's plenty of evidence of that. but i think the second point is very valid. i have not personally seen this declassified information. i don't know that anyone has, and i think it would be helpful if the biden administration would show it to people, i think it's perfectly okay for reporters to ask, okay, you say that, okay, based on what. prove it. we're not just going to take

your word for it, and i think the biden administration would be well served to provide that evidence. >> we've seen vladimir putin who met with china's president xi ahead of the olympic ceremonies. beijing has called for an end to nato expansion. moscow has voiced support for china's stance that taiwan is a part of china. both affirm their new relationship that it was superior to any alliance of the cold war and that the friendship between the two states has no limits. so in your mind, what threat does this display of solidarity between russia and china pose to the u.s.? >> i think it's a pretty profound threat not just to the u.s. but the world. it's the rise of autocracy. it's the reduction of economic and political freedom. both china and russia have made it clear that they don't believe in economic or political freedom. they believe in dictating terms to other countries around them, and we have seen that over and over again and to the extent they joined forces in that. certainly we have seen it in eastern europe. we have seen it around taiwan

but also other nations in asia as china has moved into what is considered sovereign territory in a variety of different nations, particularly in terms of fishing rights, but it's also in africa, in latin america, they're getting very aggressive about pushing their interests in an autocratic, undemocratic, nonrules based way. to the extent they get together on that, that's going to be a problem. i will say the notion that russia and china are in complete agreement on everything doesn't bear out. they're competing in some of the parts of the world i mentioned to begin with. they share a very long border, and they have some disputes about what should happen in places in central asia. there are fissures that could be exploited. this is a difference between a rules based international border, the difference between economic political freedom and autocracy, and the world ought to unite to try to push economic and political freedom and

individual sovereignty against what russia and china are advocating for here. >> let me ask you quickly about the death of isis leader in that operation in northwest syria. how big a blow was the killing of that leader to isis overall? >> we probably won't know for a little while. i mean, it's hard to tell. it really matters how quickly do they replace the leader, how does this change their strategy. what does isis do going forward. we won't know for sure. it is disruptive. keeping the pressure on isis undermines their ability to organize and carry out terror attacks, and let's not forget, you know, when isis took over, a huge chunk of syria in iraq, the impact of that, i mean, they were executing people in the desert, they were basically enslaving communities, and putting in a better position to launch attacks in europe, so to the extent that we can disrupt them in that effort, you know, that's going to help. and it also helps, you know, the

iraqi government is a decent partner, we have decent partners within syria, you know, it's not a blow that's going to end this thing. but it continues to disrupt the ability of isis to organize terrorist attacks in the region and beyond, and i think that's helpful. >> washington congressman adam smith, always a pleasure. thank you so much for your time. >> thanks, alex, appreciate it. up next, speed bumps in the january 6th investigation on capitol hill plus a powerful new documentary premiering tomorrow night on msnbc and it looks at the january 6th insurrection through the eyes of a leading lawmaker. for congressman jamie raskin, it is the story about a national and personal tragedy. i'll be speaking "congressman as well as the documentarian about the film "love and the constitution." e documentarian a the film "love and the the film "love and the constitution." (delivery man) sms, unencrypted texts, they're just like these. they're open. (mail recipient 5) what are you talking about? (delivery man) like if this was an unencrypted text...

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republican congressman jim jordan spoke to then president trump by phone on the morning of january 6th in a ten high temperature minute phone call. the rnc voted to declare the violent and deadly attack on the u.s. capitol an act of legitimate political discourse, censuring its members on the house select committee who are investigating the attack. and former trump administration army secretary ryan mccarthy spent nearly five hours testifying before the committee yesterday. capitol hill correspondent ali vitali is joining me now, and another welcome, lots going on with the attack investigation. but you've been hearing that it's hitting some kind of speed bumps? >> reporter: yeah, alex, as much as they are getting thousands of pages of documents, hundreds of witnesses coming forward, some subpoenaed and requested, others voluntarily, at the same time, there are some people who have stone walled this investigation to the point where actually one of your next guests, congressman jamie raskin told me the public phase of the process, the

hearings we expected to come in february and march is now more likely for late april and may. it represents one of the pieces of the investigation that we have been looking ahead to as the committee tries to put together the narrative around january 6th. one of the things, though, that may have slowed down this process and it has been the strategy for many of trump's allies is to say that they were either not going to cooperate or to come in and plead the fifth. the point that many of the january 6th select committee members have made is that is not a magic wand. here's one of them describing why. >> when you plead the 5th you're saying, i could be prosecuted for what i was asked to talk about. the way to sanitize that is to give what's called youth immunity, which means the testimony given to the committee could not be used by the department of justice. if they find by some other means, fine, they could use it, and we're thinking about that. you know, there are a number of steps that have to be gone

through to do that, and the question is will we get useful information, we are pondering that right now. >> and so at this point, the question is if the committee extends that use immunity to any of the witnesses that may might think need to give them that information, at the same time, we know that several of the witnesses who have already come before them and pled the fifth, include people like former department of justice official jeffrey clark, john eastman, one of the former president's lawyers at the time who was really pushing theories and ways to overturn the election results, roger stone, alex jones, those are some of the names of people who are pled the 5th in front of the committee, unclear whether or not use immunity is going to be extended in the future to other witnesses. certainly something we're tracking here. >> which we thank you for doing for us. appreciate that. let's go to an emotional msnbc documentary that shows the january 6th insurrection like you've never seen it before. "love and the constitution" documents congressman jamie raskin who just days after

losing his son and in the wake of the attack on that capitol led former president trump's second impeachment trial. its an intimate look into the congressman's battle in the after math of a national tragedy and personal one. >> we were not the only family in that god awful year to lose a family member. if you add up covid-19, opioid deaths, gun violence, and all of the other normal causes, millions of people lost loved ones. >> amen. >> we are indeed surrounded now by american carnage. the country is still just trying to absorb the emotional impact of events that brought us right up to the edge of a real coup in

america. we can't have healing before we have an honest reckoning, and this president must be held accountable for the role he has played. >> if that's not a tease to watch the show, i don't know what is, but joining me right now, congressman jamie raskin, democrat from maryland and the film maker, mad line carter. i welcome you to the broadcast. before we get to the documentary, i want to get to developments in the committee, the rnc censuring two republicans on the panel, republicans liz cheney, and adam kinzinger, the resolution calling the insurrection legitimate political discourse. i've got trouble with that one, what's your reaction? >> they're licensing political violence in america. they're essentially embracing insurrection and coup as a mode of taking power in the country, and one thing that was

particularly alarming to me is that it wasn't even clear that it was donald trump pushing them to do this. they have so internalized the command structure of the new republican party under donald trump as a cult leader that they just do his will without even being told to do so. so they obviously, as senator romney said, have covered themselves in shame and disgrace for denouncing liz cheney and adam kinzinger for the now clear assault on democracy. >> there's new reporting this week as you know about the white house documents that were given to the committee by the national archives. notably, some of those documents being taped back together after being ripped up. what can you tell us about what those documents were and do you know who ripped them up? >> well, i don't -- i haven't read those documents yet.

when i first heard about it, all i could think about was willy wonka and the chocolate factory and the ump loompas putting back together a torn document like this. apparently donald trump has had some history of ripping things up like this, but we will put them back together, and we are piecing together the entire story of how a mass demonstration turned into a mob riot that wounded and injured 150 of our police officers, how a violent insurrection was organized among domestic violent extremist groups, the oath keepers, and the proud boys and the qanon folks, and finally how there was a political coup targeted at mike pence to try to get him to nullify electoral college votes single handedly, and kick the whole election into the house of representatives for so called contingent election under the 12th amendment, and that was the plan. they knew that they had 27 state

delegations, the democrats had 22. pennsylvania was divided. even had they lost the at large rep from wyoming, liz cheney, they still would have had 26 votes. they would have run it like the republican convention, declared donald trump the winner of the presidency for the next four years, and they might have followed at that point disgraced former national security adviser michael flynn's advice to invoke the insurrection act and declare something like martial law to put down the insurrection chaos they had unleashed against us. >> this country owes you a debt of gratitude in your relentless pursuit of what happened that terrible day. let's move to the film, "love and the constitution," i know you followed the congressman over what, a three-year period over january 6th. what inspired you to make this documentary in the first place? >> i started filming on july 4th

of 2018, and at the time, everybody was really cynical about government and politics, i felt, and i wanted to make a positive story about government and politics. and jamie was my congressman at that time, and i knew he was on the house judiciary committee, so i spent months asking him if he would let me follow him around. because i wanted to do a film about somebody who was making a difference, who was really a gadfly of trump's and who was fighting to maintain constitutional democracy for the rest of us. >> and i'm sure that is exactly what you're going to display in your film. let me ask you, congressman, losing your son, that certainly is a tragedy beyond words, but then just days later, you and your family were in the capitol on january 6th as it was being stormed. that also unimaginable. where did you find the strength,

the resilience to then lead your colleagues and the country, frankly, through an impeachment process? >> well, tommy raskin, was always foremost in my mind and my heart, and i felt i was carrying him with me in my chest the whole time. and i of course was clinging very tightly to my daughters, my wife sarah, nieces and nephews, i mean, i was surrounded by family, and that was the main thing i relied on, but, you know, i have wonderful colleagues, the impeachment team was dazzling and extraordinary, and speaker pelosi was a very important force in my life at that time. i talk in the book that i wrote about this, i talk about how

speaker pelosi really threw me a lifeline because i felt like i was drowning in grief and agony, and i wasn't sleeping, and i wasn't eating, and she asked me to be on the team of managers and i said, yes, of course. and she said i would like you to lead the team, and i was quite floored and taken aback given my position but she said we need you, and i think that that became, you know, an incredible sustenance for me to tell me that i was needed and she wanted me to talk to sarah and hannah and tabitha, and i did. we considered the dimensions, there were a lot of security threats in the air at that point, but we decided to go ahead, and for me, i felt like i was doing something that my son would be proud of and i was doing something that tommy would want me to be doing because he loved democracy, and he wanted a lot more from democracy, not a

lot less. >> i love that you carried him with you every step of the way. as people watch this tomorrow night here on msnbc, what do you want folks to take away from your film? >> i want people to take away the idea that one person can make a difference. jamie is doing extraordinary things to try to save constitutional democracy and i truly believe that we're in a perilous time right now. and we all can't do as much as jamie is doing, but we can do other things. we can drive a neighbor to the polls. we can volunteer and that's my goal, that people feel that they can make a difference, and that they will step up and make a difference especially in the midterms coming up. >> yeah, and a few talented folks are able to make films about all of this. i thank you so much for your

time, and congressman jamie raskin, it's an honor to have you on the broadcast. for all of you, that's what you got to do, watch "love and the constitution" tomorrow night at 10 eastern, here on msnbc. meantime, blowing the whistle on capitol hill, racism, lack of diversity and harassment, just a few of the allegations from furious capitol hill staffers and they're not taking it anymore. that's next. e not taking it anymore. taking it anymore. that's next. i have friends. [ chuckles ] well, he may have friends, but he rides alone. that's jeremy, right there! we're literally ridingher. he gets touchy when you talk about his lack of friends. can you help me out here? no matter why you ride, progressive has you covered with protection starting at $79 a year. well, we're new friends. to be fair. eh, still.

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(sighs wearily) here i'll take that! (excited yell) woo-hoo! ensure max protein. with thirty grams of protein, one gram of sugar, and nutrients to support immune health. democratic leadership is backing congressional aides who want to unionize after a viral instagram account pulled back the curtain on what it's really like to work on capitol hill. the account named dear white staffers has become an outlet for congressional aides to air grievances about pay equity, work life balance, even the lawmakers in whose offices they work. joining me is geoff bennett, msnbc political contributor, and

chief washington correspondent for pbs news hour and my good buddy. some of the accusations posted on the account, according to "the washington post," one person said i'm waiting to get a better offer and i'm out. this work is not sustainable, and myself for minimal successes. >> wow. >> as a former nbc news congressional correspondent, were you aware that staffers felt this way? >> i was. look, this is a decades-long -- a generations-long problem, and for hill staffers, who might have legitimate grievances, alex, there's really nowhere to turn. there is no congressional hr office. every office operates as its own little feifdom so if a boss, a member of congress is being verbally harassing a junior staffer, there's really nowhere for that staffer to turn. he or she could talk to the chief of staff or maybe have a conversation with that member, him or herself, but that's the extent of it. and so that's one of the reasons

why now there's this big push, coming at a time when workers across the board are pushing for better pay and better working conditions. the same thing is happening on the hill. right now, there is no mechanism for hill staffers to collectively bargain, and so it's a big deal to have this now support from both house speaker nancy pelosi and on the senate side from leader schumer. it would basically call for both chambers to pass a resolution that would then allow hill staffers to organize, but these hill staffers, they might appear in nicely pressed suits, they might have these big jobs where they have a hand in writing legislation, but their bank accounts tell a vastly different story. the median pay is $59,000 and for starting staffers, it can be as little as $20,000 or $30,000 a year. and this is in washington, d.c., where the average, you know, rent for a one-bedroom apartment is like $2,500. and so there have been surveys and polls taken where people have said, yes, i have had to take out loans to pay for basic

everyday living expenses, and you have hill staffers, both democratic and republican, who are saying that now is really a time to make a change. if it's going to happen at all, the sort of moment and the zeitgeist right now would suggest that now is the time to do this and push forward. >> so you're talking about the financial component, but what about the work-life balance here? i mean, what kind of duties do these congressional aides have every day? how long are their hours? >> they're long. i mean, it's a 12 to 14-hour day. it really depends on the boss and when i say boss, it depends on the member that they serve, and it depends on where that member lives, what district they represent. imagine if you're somebody who represents the west coast, then that obviously changes your hours here on the east coast. but -- and it also -- it's highly dependent on the whims of a member. if he or she is very active in the media and needs someone to write speeches or needs someone

to help, you know, corral talking points and that sort of thing, so it can be a pretty demanding job. and the other issue is that so much of this is entrenched in the culture, much like the news business, where you kind of have to work your way up and people at the top can sometimes say to the people at the bottom, i dealt with it, you can deal with it too. a lot of that happens -- that happens a lot on the hill where you have people who have been there for generations who say, to younger staffers who have legitimate grievances, you know, just deal with it. but now, it's such that people are saying, they don't necessarily have to, and the last place in the world where you want to have a brain drain is on capitol hill. where it's those staffers who write the legislation. it's those staffers who are really doing the hard work and heavy lifting, even though the member gets all of the attention. that is certainly not the place where you want to see staffers heading for the exits. >> it's also reminding me of the entertainment industry and hollywood, you heard about all those complaints from people that were serving as assistants, the same kind of issues, 100%, you know, you're paying your dues and the like. but i'm curious, have any lawmakers responded to these claims?

>> not specifically to the ones -- the anonymous claims that have surfaced through that viral instagram account. but you do have democratic leadership on the house and senate side sort of giving their blessing for this unionizing effort. interestingly enough, there's been no republican lawmaker to come out in support of this, even though -- and i've talked to some republican aides and staffers who do support the idea of collective bargaining, but you can imagine why, for the gop, who generally across the board don't support bargaining -- collectively bargaining and unionizing, why they wouldn't see this as such a good idea. >> it's always a good idea to have you on the show so come see me again. in the crosshairs of america's culture war, school library books and the list of banned books in one state is raising alarm. oks and the list banned books in one state is raising alarm. we've got apples and cabbage. 7,000 dahlias, vegetables, and brisket for dinner.

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