we're going to tell you about that. congresswoman sheila jackson-lee is here live to discuss that, and more. plus r we know president biden is sending 3,000 u.s. troops to eastern europe as tensions build between russia and ukraine. why is the u.s. getting solved in this crisis? and more importantly, what should the u.s. do about it? former u.s. ambassador to ukraine bill taylor is here to explain that and more. debunking conservative claims about the reason behind a recent spike in violent crimes. facts matter. we're going to walk you through them. i'm ayman mohyeldin, let's get started. ♪♪ well, after years of wondering, this week we finally learn just how far mike pence is willing to go for donald trump, and what his eventual breaking point. would be. it didn't come in 2016 when the access hollywood tape was released and trump was heard

bragging about sexually assaulting women. no, it didn't come then. pence stood by his despite even trump acknowledging that, quote, mother is not going to like this. it wasn't when trump called the neo-nazis, quote, very fine people. nope, not then either. pence even defended trump when he called haitian and african nations s-hole countries. the deeply religious mike pence even had trump's back when details of his affair with porn star stormy daniels came to light. after years of putting up with trump, it seems that pence had finally had enough, and issued a rebuke of his former boss this week. >> i heard this week that president trump said i had the right to overturn the election. president trump is wrong. i had no right to overturn the election. the presidency belongs to the american people and the american people alone.

and frankly, there is no idea more un-american than the notion that any one person could choose the american president. under the constitution i had no right to change the outcome of our election. >> well said, mike, well said. but i've got to ask you, what took you so long? trump has been pushing this bogus theory the vice president could have rejected the results of the election for well over a year now, it's a theory that pence first rejected actually on january 6th, 2021 with his actions. that's when he refused to go along with trump's plan, and when it mattered the most. so believe me, the last thing i'm looking to do here is give mike pence extra credit for realizing he doesn't have to take trump's crap anymore. but, this was a revealing week in terms of how far people are willing to go for trump, both on an individual level, and a group level. and let me explain why. new reporting from the "new york times" this week, that was more

involved than previously known, suggests that trump was involved, any plan to have the military seize voting machines around the country. here's the part that really jumped out at me. if you're not sitting down right now, i've got to be honest with you, you're probably going to want to take a seat. because the plan was shot down by none other than rudy giuliani. now, again, let's pump the brakes on giving rudy too much, or honestly any credit here. this particular plan had been put forward by sidney powell, rudy's chief rival for the spot of trump's craziest lawyer. after shooting it down giuliani then tried to have the department of homeland security do the same thing, that avenue would get blocked by another trump loyalist when acting dhs deputy secretary ken cuccinelli told giuliani the department of homeland security officials wouldn't help him out. attorney general bill barr himself at one point a member of trump's riot or die crew had also shot down a similar plan to have the justice department get

involved in overturning the election. now, while the results of the 2020 election wouldn't be overthrown by these individual -- individuals, excuse me, the broader republican party is continuing to make it clear that they are all in on trump and the insurrection. just look what happened yesterday. friday, the republican national committee approved a resolution, censuring representatives liz cheney and adam kinzinger for their participation in the january 6th select committee. but there's one particular section of the resolution that i think is so important to call out. they write this. representatives cheney and kinzinger are participating in a democrat-led persecution of ordinary citizens, engaged in legitimate political discourse. think about that. the gop is now all about explicitly saying that they are all for the january 6th coup in this country. so while it's notable that the

scales may have finally fallen from the eyes of people like mike pence and other close trump allies it ultimately doesn't mean much if the party itself is still toeing that trump line. we now have a political party in this country that is willing to subject itself to the whims of a wannabe autocrat, a single unitary leader, willing to whitewash political violence, ban books in schools across the country, change the rules in our elections so that they're never out of power again. folks, this isn't normal. every week, on this show, we tell you a new threshold that has been crossed. and with every week that goes by, it becomes more and more clear how far into dangerous waters this country may genuinely never recover from. that's where we're going, unchartered territory. there's a word for what path we are on. if nothing changes, we are

heading towards fascism, and it should scare the hell out of all of us. joining me now is philip bump, a national correspondent for the "washington post." philip, great to have you back on the show with us. another week, we learned more this week about trump's involvement in these plans to steal the election, or as he said, overturn the election. the time -- this time it was an idea from sidney powell to have the military seize voting machines, which you described it as one element of a throw spaghetti at the wall plan by trump and his loyalists to see what basically sticks. were you surprised to learn it was rudy who talked trump out of this? >> no, not really. i mean, i think you hit the nail on the head there with the fact that rudy giuliani and sidney powell had been at loggerheads for some time. and people remember. this was an absolutely bananas press conference at the rnc, the republican party's headquarters in d.c. in mid-november, which sidney powell outlined these bonkers claims about foreign interference in the election, and the electoral machines, so crazy that tucker carlson went on fox news. and was like, look, we asked her

for evidence, couldn't provide any. this is over the line. they cut her off from the trump campaign. there was also this bad blood between giuliani and powell, powell seen as being beyond the pail. because trump is so desperate to come up with any solution possible to try and hold onto the presidency, this is after december 14th, after the electors have already voted, that he then embraces this new idea, he welcomes sidney powell back into the white house, literally, and, you know, opens his -- he actually says at one point, according to reporting from my colleagues at the post, he says, you know, at least she's giving me a chance. she's giving me options here. but because giuliani and powell had this bad blood, even giuliani had to say, look, we can't move forward with this plan as is. >> let's -- help me put these comments in context. let's talk a little bit about the pence comments from earlier this week. on one hand a lot of people are making a huge deal about them praising him to some extent for saying very clearly and definitively, trump was wrong, certainly members of the

political class commentators on twitter, are they guilty of hyping it up too much or is it worth pointing out or giving him credit that he is doing this at the federalist society, you know, to some extent, a bastion of conservative intelligence, if you want to use the word, or did he not have the courage of going on fox news and saying that to the base of the party which is perhaps a lot more staunchly trump than what you may expect from the federalist society. what do you think? >> i will say, just speaking from my own perspective. i think it's obviously better than not that he said this so explicitly. to the point you raised in your introduction, this is essentially what he said on january 6th. that he was -- that whoever was saying that he could do these things was wrong. that's essentially what he said in his letter on january 6th itself. and i think stuart stevens, a longtime gop consultant, worked with both president bushes. i believe he worked on mitt romney's 2012 campaign. he has since become very disillusioned about the party and he raised a good point about pence. yes, he did the right thing on

january 6th, but he was also involved with and tasked with by donald trump, overturning the election. and instead of raising a stink at that point in time publicly saying, hey, we can't do this, what are you doing? instead he did the most docile thing he could. here's my letter saying i'm not going to do that, go to capitol hill. better to do that than not. better now to say, hey, he was wrong than not. but it was not this great brave thing he did necessarily. and i think we risk missing the forest here. i think you're exactly right, what we need to focus on is there was this big effort, and i think we get so bogged down in these little incidents and these little statements that are like, aha, and moving the ball incrementally forward and failing to recognize or failing to appreciate that we're in the midst of this effort to have tried to steal the presidency and that is the big picture we need to remain focused on. >> yeah, i keep reminding people on this show and elsewhere that we dodged a bullet, not because our institutions upheld or our laws worked, but by the grace of maybe a handful of people who made certain decisions and we got a lucky break this time.

we may not get that break the next time. one person, who's definitely had a strong reaction to this, philip, to mike pence's comments, is trump himself. i mean, since pence's comments yesterday, trump has put out four stand alone statements attacking pence, blaming speaker pelosi for the capitol riot. lashing out at efforts to reform the electoral account act. do you think that he was rattled by pence speaking out? does pence speaking out open the door for others in the republican party, and i don't want to say republican party collectively. we know what they did yesterday. but republican individuals to stand up with a little bit of courage and follow mike pence's lead through the door? >> i mean, i think we come back to the sort of hope that many americans have held since, you know, mid-2015, which is that maybe there will be someone who says, you know, i will also take up the banner and stand alongside you. but, i mean, i think if you ask any american, who are republicans more likely -- who's the leader they're more likely to follow, donald trump or mike

pence, you have the answer to your question. who is mike pence leading? maybe his immediate family. >> that's a good point. >> even his brother, greg pence, in the house voted against recognizing the electors on january 6th. it's -- you know, i think that by itself answers the question. >> no, you're absolutely right. it's a very good point and a good way to look at it and not to mention the gop spoke out yesterday, we know how that went. it was as trumpian as you can possibly get. philip bump, great to see you. thanks for coming back on the show. joining me now is congresswoman sheila jackson-lee, democrat from texas who sits in the house judiciary and homeland security committee. congresswoman, thank you for joining us as well. i want to start off by asking you about a pair of tweets from republican senator lisa murkowski in response to the censure of representatives cheney and kinzinger. she wrote that we must not legitimize those actions which resulted in loss of life, and we must learn from that horrible event so that history does not repeat itself. your reaction to the senator's comments and do you think that's what the republican party is

doing by attempting to brush the plot to overthrow the election under the rug? >> first of all, so good to be with you and your viewers. i totally agree with the senator. and my point, first, is that this democratic republic is at a precipice of survival, or collapse. and it is shameful that we have lost our adversary. we've lost the loyal opposition of the basis of this nation, where two distinct parties and others stood up for different opinions, but stood up for democracy. i'm stunned. by the action that occurred on friday. and the reason is, that you have now censured patriots, individuals that serve on a committee that is trying to discern why we were so violated on january 6th. why democracy was so viciously attacked. and you are challenging them to

support not only a person who stands on the pile of big lies, but is a unelected citizen who argues for the overthrow of this government. and that is the former president of the united states. and you are challenging them for not being loyal, not to the nation, not to the constitution, but to a person who has not earned that kind of respect. it saddens me for a party that i have worked with, as loyal opposition, and it saddens me for the democracy that we love, the united states of america. it is an outrage. >> so let me ask you about the democracy of the united states of america for a moment. when you take a step back and you look at what happened yesterday, with the gop censuring two members of congress, basically embracing political violence in an attempted overthrow of our government, a plot by the president and his closest allies to overturn the election in his words. a party that is embracing the

banning of books in this country and our educational system, a party that is, to some extent, anti-science, a rise of neo-nazis in various parts of our country. what is the state of our country? is it hyperbolic for me and others to say that we are at a very dangerous threshold and we are going in unchartered territory here in this country? >> i think it is insightful and important for journalists under the first amendment to keep educating the american public. that if they're not vigilant about their democracy, they are on a precipice, as i said, of survival, or collapse. i have faith in this little book called the constitution. its early words that said we have gathered to create a more perfect union, as you well know, women were not included in the constitution, slaves were less than one person, and we've had our difficulties with race and sex, if you will, but what we have been able to do is to

ensure that the basis of this country was a love for democracy and a love for the flag and a love for who we are. we have stood as a progressive, i've stand against the vileness of some of the actions that have occurred from the dixiecrats and the segregationists. and the violence that occurred to tear down this government. but i've always had a faith that the majority of the people, the men and women who put on the uniform believe in its basic principle. i believe that we have hope because progressives are strong, and we are embracing all of america who really wants to move forward, have build back better, have the bipartisan infrastructure bill, fight to eliminate racism. but we cannot let our guard down because as we saw on january 6th, we saw not only domestic terrorists, but we saw the hollering of racial -- against black police officers, we saw the toxic mixture that

can be the end of us. i don't think it's the end of us. i think there are young people and the voters are going to fool many of those in the trump camp in 2022 and vote to move this country forward. we cannot let our guard down. democracy is fragile and i believe we've got to fight for it. >> i have to ask about the party generally, the democratic party generally, do you think they are up to the task for saving this democracy given where it is, and i say that knowing we may be losing, as you said, the loyal opposition in this country, does the democratic party realize the seriousness of it? the totality of the party, some people do. yourself and progressives are up for it, but does the party leadership and the white house, do you think, are they aware of the moment when it comes to the threat of voting rights, the risk to our country and our constitutional democracy? >> we've got to shore up every aspect that makes this nation a democracy, the oldest that the world has admired. we've got to be bold in our actions, and i do think that

there are bold democrats who recognize that a mild mannered approach is a yesteryear. the years of bob michael, who was minority leader, when democrats could work together. so we want to work on the other side of the aisle. but we're not insisting that working on the other side of the aisle has no -- that you can collaborate with, and that we have to have that. as we look at the january 6th committee, that has been doing an able job of democrats and two republicans, they have the strength, as you look at the litany of individuals from the trump administration who being called in, it seems that every staff member, miller, and others, it looks like the whole team was practically aware of and involved in january 6th. we're glad some of them are talking. we're glad jeffrey clark is coming in. but putting that aside, we've got to work for vulnerable americans, we're bold about that and there are those of us who are going to insist on it.

you may know i'm the author of hr-40. that sounds like a striking legislation but i believe it's a healing legislation and that is the legislation to study slavery and develop reparation proposals. 215 plus members have supported it. that's a strong statement that we want a better america. so all i can say to you is, to be able to do this, the fight must be strong, you must engage with young voters, you must make sure that they know that democracy is fragile and it's in their hands and we will win and be victorious, if there are diligent caretakers of democracy and they push aside what happened on friday with the rnc. i'm wishing them the best, but let's push it aside and fight for america's democracy. >> congresswoman sheila jackson-lee, always a pleasure, thank you for your time and thank you for joining us this evening. greatly appreciate it. >> delighted to be with you, hope to be back, thank you. always. next, i'm going to ask former u.s. ambassador to ukraine, bill taylor, about putin's intentions in ukraine and why the u.s. should care

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so lately i've been asking myself what does russian president vladimir putin want, and why should we here in the u.s. care? and as bill taylor the former u.s. ambassador to ukraine once

told the new yorker, mr. putin and his security services are adept at exacerbating taking advantage of cleavages in the united states and ukraine and in europe, he's exacerbated fishers, divisions, cleavages in our society. this is what he does. this is what he does. taylor wasn't talking about the 100,000 plus troops currently amassed along ukraine's border right now. in fact, that quote was from february 2020 when putin was actually taking another crack at disrupting the world order. now it's a play he tries again and again, whether it's election interference, poisoning opposition leaders or invading other countries. meanwhile, there are dozens of other global conflicts the u.s. stays out of, and more importantly, let's be honest here for a moment, we don't promote and defend democracy in every country around the world. heck, some of our allies, some of our closest allies are some of the most undemocratic nations on this planet. are we spending too much time to reason with one person, and more importantly, should we care about what happens in ukraine?

luckily for us we have the perfect guest to help answer some of these questions and more, joining me now is bill taylor, former u.s. ambassador to ukraine, he's also vice president at the u.s. institute of peace for russia and europe. ambassador taylor it's great to have you with me and thank you so much for joining us, i'd like to start with that question, a lot of people may be watching this in middle america, or anywhere in this country, to be quite honest, and wondering why should the united states care about this crisis? as i sat, and i know you have served in the state department. you know the u.s. does not promote and defend democracy everywhere in the world. we like to think we do, but we certainly don't. you know that our allies around the world are some of the most undemocratic countries on this planet. why do we suddenly care about democracy in ukraine? >> first of all, it's not a sudden care. we have been -- we have been working, supporting ukrainians, and ukrainian democracy for three decades, and this has been

true, by the way, ayman, across the political spectrum. it has been right and left. republicans and democrats, it's been house and senate. it has been through administration republican, administration democratic, we have been supporting ukraine as it tries to develop its own democracy, and its own way getting into europe, trying to get away from russia, and getting away from where it came from out of the soviet union. so there are a couple reasons why we should care. and the first is, that this is the front line. this is the front line. ukraine is the front line of democracies against autocracies, but it's also the front line of a war, ayman, that ukrainians didn't start. the russians started this war. the russians invaded ukraine in 2014, are now threatening to do it again. and the ukrainians are there defending against the russians, and they're defending europe.

in some real sense they're defending us. you mentioned that the russians meddle in elections. well, they start meddling in elections in ukraine and then they come to the united states. they start hacking into energy systems in ukraine, and then they come to the united states, and they do the same thing. ukraine's on the front line, and let me just say, that our american soldiers, our u.s. troops are on the front lines of the battles and the fights and the wars that we fight. and they're on the front line. and we support them. and just like we support our troops, the united states and the international committee, europe ought to support ukraine on the front line of democracy. that's number one. but number two, as a broader issue, there's a broader issue, and that is, if we want to have a secure europe, and thus a secure united states and international system, then there have to be some rules, some

principles, some norms that we live by. one of them is that states, nations are sovereign. they get to make their own decisions. if we don't believe in that, then we are -- then it's right makes right. a sphere of influence. the big countries get to decide what little countries have to do. that's wrong. that's not what we stand for. and if we allow that to happen, then russia won't stop with ukraine. >> you make a very compelling point. i certainly respect that, but if you look at some of our allies like germany, for example, they've taken a step back here, and some say there is a little bit of daylight between the u.s. and germany on this. they aren't sending weapons to ukraine, and are keeping a relatively low profile in this. they certainly have skin in the game, not only geographically, they have economic interests with energy. why are we stepping in here, when in so many other cases, you know, a country like germany is not as active in this fight as, perhaps, they should be, if they

are a close ally of ours. >> they are a close ally of ours. and every ally is going to do things a little bit differently. we're all going in the same direction. we're all opposing russia's attempt to subordinate ukraine, which is really what putin's after. we are all in that, and germany, as a way to do that, and they have said, in some terms, that if russia invades ukraine, that that pipeline, that mr. putin has been so proud of, and so eager to get into operation, that goes from russia, the gas pipeline from russia into germany, the germans have said, in so many words, that that pipeline won't go into operation. and other nations are sending different kinds of weapons. we're sending some support to the front lines. the french are sending support to the front lines. the dutch are sending -- are sending aircraft.

the spanish are sending ships. we're all doing it differently, and it's all in the same direction. >> right. do you think the u.s. right now is taking the right course of action? what would you be advising president biden, if you could, on what they should or should not be doing to deter president putin from this action? >> right. i would say don't blink. i would say, stand your ground. president zelensky in ukraine is staring at 100,000, 150,000 troops, on his border, fully armed, missiles, tanks, artillery. president zelensky is staring him down, and president biden is right beside him. president biden is right beside him. and they are both staring down president putin. president putin probably didn't expect that. he probably thought that he could muscle zelensky or muscle biden. he thought he could intimidate them into giving up and to folding, and to blinking.

and so far, president biden's not blinking, and president zelensky has not blinked. >> we'll see how this plays out, ambassador taylor, greatly appreciate your time, couldn't think of anyone better to talk to about this, sir, thank you for joining us. >> thanks, ayman. the congressman from silicon valley makes his pitch to the forgotten men and women in this country. does that sound familiar? i'll explain after the break. i'll explain after the break like pulsing, electric shocks, sharp, stabbing pains, or an intense burning sensation. what is this nightmare? it's how some people describe... shingles. a painful, blistering rash that could interrupt your life for weeks. forget social events and weekend getaways.

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>> so trump even took his premature victory lap with a group of miners one year later but for all that fanfare the former president predictably couldn't save coal mining jobs, now a surprising politician is reaching out to those very same blue collar workers, democratic congressman ro khanna of california says it's time for tech jobs to go to coal country. the congressman says silicon holler, a region of kentucky with a fledgling tech sector is one example of an expanding digital revolution. congressman ro khanna joins us now. it's great to have you back on the program. fascinating book, and very important, i guess, central thesis, talk to me a little bit about this. silicon holler is a part of appalachian kentucky that aspires to build a tech savvy workforce, tell us about it and how you think it could be a model for other areas of the

country the tech boom has forgotten. >> thanks for having me on. the important thing is this is a name that hale rogers gave the area, a republican member of congress in the heart of trump country and you see there is a desire to have revenue come in and understanding this is going to require technology jobs, there are 25 million digital jobs expected by 2025. kentucky wants to have a part of that. you look at alex hughes who got one of these jobs. this is not a coder for google. he's making refrigerators and laundry machines, to be smart machines. these are the manufacturing and retail jobs of the 21st century, one other example is intel, going to ohio, 3,000 jobs in manufacturing, 7,000 construction jobs. we can revitalize a large part of the country by distributing these modern tech jobs. >> you're on a mission to

address rampant inequality in your book you write that we cannot leave the tech evolution to an invisible hand that may foster creative brilliance and overnight billionaires, but also leaves many behind, creating stark inequality, both geographically and within communities, with a strong tech presence. what lessons have we learned from the first tech boom in the late '90s and what is your plan to fix that stark inequality? it's not just about the income inequality, it's also about the knowledge inequality. >> well, my district and the surrounding areas have $11 trillion of market cap, the most wealth created in any one region in human history. and yet so many places in this country were left out, people were saying go -- told go move and they didn't want to move. and you have the racial wealth gap that's increasing because there's a racial wealth generation gap. so my view is that the lesson learned is you can't just allow

globalization, digitization unfettered without focusing on place. we need to actually focus on communities that have been left out, invest in bringing jobs there, in bringing the right type of credentialing there and in the book i give examples, such as zoom doing this at an hbcu classroom in south carolina being a success. we just have neglected the fair distribution of digital opportunity. >> is there a political calculation in this? i mean, "the new york times," in the review of the book, they touched on a political motivation that i think is pretty interesting, that there is this hope that by spreading the digital wealth, the ideas can reduce the toxic -- the former president seized the anxieties about the post industrial economy in many of the very places that khanna wants to help. and believe me, i'm all for anything that can reduce toxic polarization in the country. i played for you the sound bite of

trump trying to seize that when he was campaigning, and it just, you know, obviously he wasn't able to protect those coal miners, even with all of his false promises. is this actually possible? >> well, it's meeting people where they're at. acknowledging that we've had job loss in communities. a lot of these communities they talk about the brain drain. my parents talk about the brain drain coming from india, that their kids have to buy a one-way ticket out. this is saying, yes, we need an economic revival in those communities, but we could do that economic revival without cultural displacement. it has to be an economic revival of the 21st century, not of the 1970s. that's not going to work so what are these 25 million new jobs in manufacturing, in retail, in advanced electronics, that we can have in these communities, why is it that in michigan, gm, to build auto plants, has to

hire a lot of tech workers in my district. why can't those jobs be in michigan. and i believe if we create an economic job creation in communities left out and then you have them working in other parts of the country, that it's not a panacea, they can begin to reduce some of the resentment, reduce the polarization in this country. >> congressman ro khanna from california, always a pleasure, sir, thank you for coming back on the show, good to see you. >> thank you so much for having me. the reason for crime spikes in major cities and still to come with my saturday night all-star panel, trump as a bonneville in giuliani's disastrous attempt at rehabilitation. and tom brady making grown men's hearts. stick around, more ayman next. stick around, more ayman next. it's innovative. my go to toothpaste is going to be pronamel repair.

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cities break homicide records following historically bloody 2020, but headlines like this, let's be clear, don't tell the full story. first, take a look at the framing here, 12 major democrat controlled cities, yes, each of the cities referenced in that article is led by a democratic mayor, but experts have repeatedly warned against drawing a direct line between party control and crime. maybe you remember this saying, correlation, doesn't imply causation. it's true that big cities tend to have more crime, and yes those big cities usually vote for democrats but those two facts aren't necessarily related. as one expert pointed out, there are plenty of democrat controlled cities that are not on that list. he also suggested such a cause and effect, quote, a pretty irresponsible one. but that doesn't stop the right from blaming the rising crime rate, one of their favorite boogie man mantras is defund the police. but is that accurate?

let me break the facts down for you. following the murder of george floyd by minneapolis police officer derek chauvin in 2020 progressive activists called for a number of police reforms. one of those was a relocation of funds from police to social programs, which was branded defund the police. but of those 12 cities facing record breaking homicide rates, only six cut or diverted parts of their police budgets. the other six actually increased police spending. that makes the right's narrative a little harder to swallow. i'm not good at math. but it does tell a more comprehensive picture. plus, two of those cities i mentioned that diverted or decreased spending after the defund the police movement, portland and austin, have since increased their police funding. but here's the thing. in the cities that did divert spending, it's actually too early to tell what impact that had on the homicide rate. right now, experts say there's no research proving that defunding the police leads to

homicide spikes. now, a professor who studies homicide, called using one or two years of data to highlight a trend essentially useless since homicides are rare, relative to other crimes. and she insisted multiple years of data is needed. and, in fact, older data actually suggests that local crime rates cannot be predicted by officer strength and police budgets alone. so let's be clear about this. and what this is. it's members of the conservative media, cherry picking data, to fit their narrative. that much is clear, since they seem to be ignoring the host of experts who point to other possibilities for the rise in homicide rates, like pandemic related factors, including the rise of firearm sales or economic stress. but here's one thing experts do agree on, it's too soon to single out just one reason for the recent rise in homicides. the facts here aren't up for debate. homicide rates are spiking across the country. that much is clear.

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how they covered that event. >> only republicans can do this, because they're the only people who understand incentives and disincentives, and they're not afraid of criminalizing crime. democrats, they're done. emasculating, castrated. they allowed the woke to strip them of any kind of spine. it's over for them. they have to get the hell out of dealing with criminals. >> so sometimes it feels like republicans and democrats are living in two entirely different realities. when it comes to crime, what's fact, and what's fiction? here to give us a reality check, jamaz larte, a staff writer for the marshall project. it's great to have you with us. let's take a look at the numbers. a report on 22 major u.s. cities found homicide rates increased by 5%. less of an uptick than we saw in 2020. a jump we should note. our report on the story is behind this type of data, what can you tell us about the increase in crime?

>> yeah, and thank you for having me. i'd say, you know, it's very difficult to speak about crime usefully in a national context where a nation of 50 states, thousands of counties, and tens of thousands of jurisdictions and they all have different factors that affect crime, even in the standardized data that's provided to the fbi every year, there are differences in how citizens report crime, how police respond and that makes the numbers a challenge to report on and speak authoritatively about that. what we do know is that most categories of crime were down in the latest fbi numbers, including property crimes, which is probably a surprise to some viewers based on recent media coverage. but, as you mentioned, with notable exceptions and some cities like boston, charlotte, dallas, homicides are up. it's not a trivial amount. if we go back to the 2020 data, we saw the largest year on year

increase in homicides in 60 years. though it's nowhere near historical peaks those peaks in the early '90s were an utter nightmare. we shouldn't need to approach it again to be deeply concerned. it's useful context, of course, but it's no balm to communities being plagued by violence or families losing loves ones to it. >> recently you proenl saw fox news has been dominated by america's crime crisis. no doubt some areas are facing this uptick in crime. what impact do you think these kinds of sensational media roorts and misleading statements, places the blame on democrat or liberal run cities, have on the general american public? is this about reporting the facts or about instilling fear? ? there's certainly been a rise in anti-defund the police, triumphalism in the conservative media in recent weeks. you can see it on cable news, also see it in op-eds, you know,

kind of throughout the internet newsscape. without getting into the policy meanings behind that phrase, as you mentioned, i think what we know is that there's no clear correlation between jurisdictions that made reductions to police budgets and the crime rate. in the small number of cities that shifted funding to social services, crime went up, stayed the same, or it went down. you can find that variation in cities where police budgets remain the same. or even increased. it's absolutely about a political narrative and it's useful for republicans as we enter the midterms but i think it's also worth mentioning that it's not necessarily a phenomenon of conservative media. it's really a media problem generally that crisis feels more newsworthy than the lack of un. so things that work out mostly without incident are just not

that interesting for news coverage. when a person is out on bail commits a horrifying crime, that's newsworthy, understandably, but it's not considered newsworthy that the vast majority of people released pre-trial, upwards of 99% in many jurisdictions do not get arrested for a new violent crime. i'm not even staking a policy position here. as a society we could decide that prevents that 1% of violent crimes is worth holding the other 99% of people in jail without having been convicted. it sounds absurd. but we've decided that many points before and we could decide it again as a community or nation. but what i sam stating a position on is that -- >> go ahead, finish your thought. >> people need to be armed with this context in order to come to an opinion on this question. >> we are very lucky you were here to provide us with context. we hope to bring you back. i feel like this is an important

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we are back with tonight's hypocrisy hot take and let's check in with senator john kennedy, the louisiana republican who sits on the

judiciary committee with bizarre expectations for biden's supreme court pick, a reminder president biden pledged to nominate a policewoman woman. kennedy said he had two main criteria. he requested a nominee that number one reportedly requested a nominee that, number one, knows a law book from a j. crew catalog. and number two, someone who's not going to try to rewrite the constitution every other thursday to advance a woke agenda. let's put kennedy's obvious sexism aside for a moment and focus on the second priority here. someone who won't advance a woke agenda. so, he's afraid of a democratic appointee pushing a partisan policy. well, if the senator from louisiana is so terrified of a politicized court, then i'm sure he is down right disgusted to find out what went down in florida yesterday. on friday, supreme court justice