barbara lee. another hour of velshi begins, right now. another hour of velshi good morning, 9 am in the east, 9 am out west. i am velshi, hard to underestimate how donald trump is still out of office, yet present in the landscape. is rampant lies about the election and the attempted coup that led to the attack on the capitol on january 6th, has turned the old party into a shadow of its former self. it has gone to the point that january 6th, is now being called legitimate political discourse. that was the actual language used in the statement by the republican national committee chairwoman, ronna mcdaniel, after the rnc censored represented it -- liz cheney, for working with democrats to investigate the insurrection. those three words have caused enough of a ruckus this weekend, republican lisa murkowski --

said she condemned mcdonald's saying, as americans, we must acknowledge those tragic events, we cannot allow a false narrative to be created. we cannot allow the -- calling it legitimate political discourse is wrong. she clarified, the violence at the capitol, is not legitimate political discourse. she was talking about the bogus claims, and the fraud that had been the foundation of the republican party, since election day 2020, they are not legitimate political discourse either. meanwhile, the new york times has new details about the january six committee, and how it has adopted prosecution tactics, in conducting its investigation. the committee does not actually have any power, to pursue criminal charges on its own. but, it is clear that its members understand the high stakes of their work, and ultimately, want accountability. that it is why, it has been aggressive and relentless in its work. the committee has interviewed nearly 500 witnesses.

it has issued more than 100 subpoenas since it formed, seven months ago. and, there are still some high-profile figures that want and intends to talk to. listening clues the former vice president, mike pence. pence has not been formally asked to cooperate but it appears that the committee has turned its focus on pence and his staff. in recent weeks, some of pence's former aides, sat down with january six committee, including his counsel, the guy on the left, his chief of staff. former chief of staff. marc short, the guy the middle. and his national security adviser on the right, keith kellogg. as the rift between trump and pence continues to grow, and become more public, pence's testimony, if it happens, may become a crucial component of the investigation. in the meantime, the committee is set to receive a stack of pence's documents, from his time as vice president. that we assume that pence's documents, have not been torn up, and taped back together, like many of the documents from donald trump's presidential

archive. the washington post recently spoke with former trump staffers about the ex presidents had it, of ripping up documents, in violation of the presidential records act. we first heard about this back in 2018, when politico talk to staffers, who were tasked with actually taping back together, documents that the former president had torn up. the stories seemed a bit sensational then. but the national archive, actually put out a statement, confirming that quote, white house record management officials during the trump administration, i'm having trouble reading this, it's so ridiculous. during the trump administration, recovered and taped together, some of the torn up records. these were turned over to the national archives, at the end of the trump administration, along with a number of torn up records, that had not been reconstructed. by the white house. file that under things you cannot make up. just another example of the ways that donald trump and his administration, overturned the norms in politics.

even if ripping up documents is one of his weird unexplainable quirks, it gives off the stench of something more nefarious, given how he is consistently acting above the law, and has been, his entire life. joining me now, omarosa marigold newman, she is a former trump senior official, former director of communications for the office of public liaison, she's known donald trump since she competed as a contestant on the very first season of the apprentice, back in 2004. she is a new york times bestselling author of the book unhinged. and insiders account of the trump white house. she has run into some travel difficulties this morning, but she joins us now from her phone, omarosa, we are glad to have, you thank you for being with us. i remember this, you talking about this, in your book. you talked about the fact that. what does he do? he tries to destroy papers? he puts something in his mouth? >> hello. thank you so much for your patience, with me. yes.

thank you for having me. certainly, at a time, even for me, knowing how much of a germaphobe donald was, it was enough for me to just stop and pause, and figure out what was going on in the situation. he loves to tear up those documents, but this was the first time after michael cohen left the office, and i walked into the oval, that donald, in my view, was shooting what he had just torn up. these habits of tearing things up, -- going into the trash bin, recovering these things there are certainly things that i am sure cannot be accounted for, because donald trump became very aware that a lot of these sensitive documents with at some point, be made public. >> tell me more about this. i do not know if my viewers fundamentally understand. this donald trump is sitting somewhere, he gets up to walk away, and people go and take the papers there, whether they are whipped up, or the papers

on his desk, -- is that how that works? >> in fact, we hit a very big briefing about presidential records, and management. there is a trash bin, and there is even a burn bad, for documents -- there are two different systems. we have been told, if you are with the president, and he throws something away, or hands you something, you have to account for that. in fact, there is a whole secretary who's dedicated to these documents. which is why, on the day that michael cohen was leaving the oval office, i walked back in, and i saw donald trump. looking around, he looked very concerned about whatever was exchanged and shared. and whatever was on this particular tape, or seemed to be a great concern of him. something he did not want the american people to see. so we tore it up like he usually does. but then he put it in his mouth. at the time, i got a lot of criticism about sharing the story. but it was very bizarre,

because i have known him for so long. he is a germaphobe. he never puts paper in his mouth. on this occasion, he did. which makes me worry, that there are a lot of documents that may not be accounted for. that there may be documents that, cannot tell the full story about what encounter happened, on the days leading up to january 6th, for instance. that we may never ever see, ne. >> however, this investigation continues to go deeper. weonnue finding information about the narrow circle of the president, that was involved in the planning of january 6th. that does not seem to be slowing his role. he is out, they're rallying, he's talking about pardoning people. what is your sense on whether he is thinking about, or planning on running in 2024? >> i can tell you with great certainty, donald trump is going to announce that he is going to run for president. the only problem is, at the time when he was running, the first time, there was no history of him, from a policy standpoint, from his leadership skills, decision-making now the

american people know what donald trump is, like leading this country. and, i am certain that he also, has all of these legal issues that may become a barrier for him. my sense is this. certainly he will run, he is addicted to the power that comes with the office. but, i am certain that he is going to find that running while being investigated, being a two-time impeached president, will pose a great threat to his success, in that race. >> i'm rosa, thank you for making an effort to change things around, and beat things -- be with us. we hope to see you back in person again. senior official in the trump white house, the author of unhinged, and insiders account of the trump white house. some chewing of paper. here with us is kimberly atkins stewart, cohost of the sisters and love podcast. she is an msnbc political analyst, and a great friend to us. good morning kimberly, thank you for being with us.

>> good morning. >> i think the parallels are weird. just as the january 6th committee, and the number of reporters, and newspapers are getting more and more detail about the depth of the conniving, and the planning that went into the overthrow, the overturning of the election. donald trump's acting like it is all business as normal, he will run for office, he will pardon the people who were involved. it is a worrisome development, that donald trump does not seem to be marginally chastise by what is coming out? >> no. it seems as though he believes in the lies he is saying, or he believes as a morose said, that his power lies in the ability to keep this story going, and all the people who support him, and place. he is pushing forward with that. and the process, he seems to be making some admissions about what he wanted to do, which was in his own words, was to overturn an election.

he has never been terribly careful, even in the fact that he has torn up documents during his presidency, some probably are unrecoverable. he's already done it in front of few people, a whole system of place, aimed in addressing it. he's always done, what he has done very plainly, and out in public. the difference now is that you have this very aggressive congressional committee, combing with a fine tooth comb, over every bit of this. that did not happen at the same, way during his presidency. that may make a big difference. >> we do know that this committee, does not have any ability to charge anybody with anything. they are investigative. what do you make as a lawyer would you make of this theory, that basically building the department of justice's case for, they will wield us all over to merrick garland saying, doctor saw, we have a lot of evidence here? >> when this reminds me of, it's sort of seems like the reverse of the mueller investigation. where you had this investigation, but a special

prosecutor, who brought all of this evidence to bear. but then said, you know wet? there's this doj rule that prevents the doj from bringing criminal charges against the sitting president. so, congress, here is your impeachment and this plan but the impeachment did not work. so now, you have a congressional committee, building a prosecutor, prosecutorial case. hiring former u.s. attorneys, to understand what is, and what is not against the law. when they present this report, it is not to just be the basis of legislation, it's not just to inform the american public, he gives the public back to the doj. not a donald trump is not in office, in all the ways that he may have broken laws. >> now change hats. from your lawyer, had to call on this hat. they used to be a thing called shame. the world knew you had done something that, you should feel guilty, perhaps stay way from rallies, for a little while. donald trump is entirely normalizing january 6th. he's entirely normalizing and

insurrection event. he is normalizing, this might be the rose, the bridge that was too far for some republicans. he is normalizing the violence, the things that ended up with police being killed. he is just treating this as, though it's the way it should have been. his followers are now not going to see this, not like they were seeing this like it was a bad thing. but he's cream the narrative that this was okay. if the election doesn't go your way, this is how you do it. he's calling for more demonstrations in washington, and atlanta. if any of these prosecutions against him move forward. >> it's extremely dangerous. on one hand, donald trump has been donald trump. the same person he has always been. he has never taken responsibility, for anything. or take, shamed going back from the access hollywood tape, to this locker room talk. -- reporters, or -- we have seen this from the beginning. now the stakes were much different. they are much higher, we have this investigation, we had this

insurrection. he is willing to protect the insurrectionists, if they support him. maybe some republicans thought, at some point, there would be a floor to that narcissism. to that like a shame. but now we know, there is not. not even the democracy itself, as a floor. >> shame has died. kimberly, good to see you, thanks for being with us. kimberly atkins is a calm -- columnist from boston globe. she is the cohost of the remarkable sisters in law podcast, which is a year old. if you have not yet subscribe to it, please do now, you can get it anywhere you get this broadcast. coming up, we are taking some hard truths today, we are looking at reframing, and re-centering american identity. it is a difficult but necessary conversation. it might be uncomfortable. well friday's booming jobs report was a buzz and surprise for the white house and wall street, people around the nation are still struggling to pay for their homes and keep food on the table. we will talk about that with congressman --

congresswoman barbara lee. russia is nearly ready for a large-scale invasion of ukraine, it could happen in days, we are live on the ground in ukraine, next. next next preparation h. get comfortable with it. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ >> woman: what's my safelite story? i see inspiration right through my glass. so when my windshield cracked, i chose safelite.

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with direct knowledge, russia has 70% of the military firepower in place, for a full scale invasion of ukraine. including, 11 or 12 combined arms units. 83 battalion tactical groups. short range ballistic missiles, hundreds of advanced fighter jets, and bombers, 20 to 30 service combatant ships. and more. the invasion could include capturing kyiv, ukraine's capital, home to nearly 3 million people. if innovation occurs, officials predict the could be as many as 50,000 civilian casualties. russia is dismissing this report as madness and scaremongering. joining me now from kyiv, is msnbc news correspondent, erin mclaughlin. what is the situation as you

see? it >> hey. that assessment, laying out in stark detail, some of the russian troop movements that have been happening, over the past few weeks, with 83, as you mention tactical groups, currently deployed. that is up from 62 weeks ago, with 14 more battalion tactical groups on the way. the assessment also noting that, nuclear exercises, that russia normally conducts in the fall, have been moved to mid-february. something that has not happened since 2014. critical to that assessment, is that it believes that russian president vladimir putin, has yet to make a decision. noting that, the window for diplomacy, is narrowing. these are critical days, i have been speaking to security experts here, in kyiv, who tell me, it is really important, this kind of pressure, to be building. that could have the potential influence, on russian president

putin's calculus, in all of this. and to really understand why it is important you need to understand how he makes his decisions, he assesses the situations, and based on different inputs, based on the reactions of different players, then, decides, also interesting in the discussions i've been having in kyiv among ukrainian security experts, they are skeptical that 150,000 russian troops is enough. that it is enough to hold the capital, noting that people here, the public opinion against russia, people are very much against russia, when you speak to normal people here on the streets. they are willing to take up arms. willing to defend their homelands, all of that will be a factor, with putin's calculus going forward. >> i know you know what you are doing. you and i have been doing this for many years. please stay safe, erin mclaughlin, msnbc reporter, in ukraine, this morning. we saw some positive job numbers come out on friday, let's not be fooled. millions of americans are struggling to remain housed. to put food on the table, to simply make ends meet.

we have a reality check from congresswoman barbara lee, after this. >> >> after this well, he may have friends, but he rides alone. that's jeremy, right there! we're literally riding together. he gets touchy when you talk about his lack of friends. >> no matter why you ride, progressive has you covered with protection starting at $79 a year. well, we're new friends. to be fair. eh, still. (vo) for me, one of the best things about life is that we keep moving forward. we discover exciting new technologies. redefine who we are and how we want to lead our lives. basically, choose what we want our future to look like. so what's yours going to be?

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which had been bracing for disastrous all macron fueled reports. president biden still acknowledging that those numbers, do little to improve the lives of millions of americans, who continue to struggle to make ends meet right now. the labor department reported, 467,000 net new jobs created, in january. the unemployment rate, taking up slightly, to 4%. remember, i like to remind people, not to pay too much attention to the unemployment rate, because the denominator on that change, is every month. the president touted the report, while also noting the work that must be done to bring down prices that are hurting all americans, regardless of their employment status. >> average people, are getting clobbered by the cost of everything today. gas prices in the pump are up.

we are working to bring them down, but they are up. food prices are up. working to bring them down as well. but these things, our necessities. but that is not the totality of what the family needs. we still have to pay for childcare. they still have to pay for prescription drugs. they still have to pay for health care. there is more than one way to help a family, when it comes to their standard of living. we are going to work to bring the prices down. >> i'm joined with barbara louis, she's number of house of appropriations and budget committees. congressman, good to see you. thank you for being with us. i want to start with this economy. we have massive economic growth. gdp growth. we have very low unemployment, throughout all my years as a business reporter, we thought below 5% was full employment. we have wages going up, we have government employees having their minimum wage raised to $5 an hour. we have all these good things. but for working people, we have the price of milk, the price of gas, the price of everything,

going up. americans are not feeling that their wages are making up with increased prices. >> you are correct. let me say that first of all, this is very painful. you are right. american families are not feeling the results of what this administration has taken. remember, we are in a pandemic era economy also. this covid pandemic has created havoc in our economy. and so, while we have moved forward, the president has, in terms of making -- goods can get shelves more quickly, he's taken many measures. people are still feeling the pain each and every day. taken care of their daily needs. that is why it is so important to pass build back better. until, you laid out all the

great economic indicators. how the economy settles in a lot of ways where people feel and see the benefits, we have to pass and enhance tax credit. that's 250 to 350 a month per child, her family's. that is gone because we could not get that renewed. we have to make sure that build back better passes, because we have 150 billion in their, for housing assistance. we have money in their, and investments for women especially, so they can get back into the workforce. right now, they cannot afford childcare. all of this works together, we have to pass legislation, executive orders have allowed people to feel the impact of what we are doing, each and every day. >> the concern here is exactly what has been happening in america for decades. that is that, some people will get richer because of this. stock markets generally speaking, are up. some people's wages are going up. there are some people still

stuck. the legislation we need is to help those who are still stuck. for whom the child tax credit, it's a life changer. it brings children out of poverty. it takes families that were otherwise food insecure, make them food secure. >> that is exactly it. and so, we have to look at short term and long term strategies, in terms of economic growth. in terms of creating good paying jobs, also. right now, yes. we have major job growth, millions of people now, are back in the workplace. still, you have the cost of food. you have the cost of services. and so, we have to find, not just -- measures like the child tax credit, to make a prominent. because we have over 140 million people, living below the poverty line, children go to bed hungry every night. the child tax credit, lifted 10,300 children out of poverty, in my own district.

in california. and so, this is extremely important to look at the structural policy issues, as we move forward. to make sure that people can manage their daily lives. but also to look at the long term policies, that will lift people, structurally, out of poverty. finally, i will say, we have initiatives, i have legislation for diaper assistance. sometimes, people do not recognize how much diapers costs for families. in fact, with low wages, with inflation, oftentimes, families run out of resources, and so, when you think about diapers, you do not think about that being a necessity city. but it, is we have to pass policies that allow families to purchase everything they need to take care of their children. >> we need to think wisely, when we talk about this great economy, which it is, we have to remember, some people get left behind. we will continue to need to do things -- >> we cannot allow it to continue. to allow people to be left

behind. we have to enforce these policies, now to lift people out of poverty. >> we appreciate when you take time out of these early mornings, to have discussions with us. representative -- last night we learned of the death of a renowned indian singer. you may not know her name, but you probably know her voice. the so-called nightingale of india was a play back singer. she provided music for actors in films, that i used to go see with my grandmother, for more than 70 years. for generations, the soundtrack to which she led -- lent her voice, was common in indian households. she is one of the most recorded artists in world history. recipient of numerous awards. prime minister called her quote, a stalwart of indian culture. in an emotional tribute on twitter. she died of multi organ failure, after 28-day battle with covid-19. she was 92 years old. she will be missed by millions. e will be missed by millions

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challenged or banned in school districts across the country. we decided to do something about. it we are launching a brand-new series here, it is called the velshi ban book club. each week we will feature books and authors being targeted by folks who do not want them on reading lists, or library shelves. come on, what is a book club without inputs from its members? you are all invited. you are all numbers, please send us your book recommendations, your comments, your suggestions about the books that have been banned, your questions for the honors, to my story at velshi.com. you have a whole week to read this one, our first book is all boys are not blue, by jordan johnson. it explores the authors childhood through college years, as a young queer man of color. it's been targeted for removal, in at least 15 states. grab yourself a copy, given to read, join our conversation online, we want to hear your feedback, before george joins me, next weekend. however, it is sunday, which

means the sunday show with jonathan kaye part. who is, a big reader, it's minutes away. jonathan joins me now. mr. kaye part. i am very excited about this. i have to say jonathan, you know me. i am not that big of a radical. i have an economics journal -- when they've been a book club, you know things have gone too far? >> that is true. i have to say, i am actually very jealous of your band book club, because it is such a great idea. to have your first one be all boys are not blue, is terrific. i'm still reading south america, so i have to get all look boys on blue, after that. there's tons of stuff happening on the sunday show, including ousted president of the human rights campaign, alfonso dave, it will be here on set. he is claiming a lawsuit, he was fired because he was black. also this morning, house majority, steny hoyer, why they're messaging, does not

seem to be getting through to the american people. despite some major democratic wins over the last few weeks, especially friday. congressman eric swalwell will join me to talk about the swath of information, that continues to pour out, the january 6th select committee, and investigation. and, ali, you need to stick around to see this. the man who smuggled dr. king's famed letter will tell that story, about how he got mlk's iconic essay. and, the 100,000 dollar errand he undertook at the direction of harry bella fontaine. >> that's a good tease. i will definitely have to stick around to hear that story. i'm trying to work on the look here i have a sweater underneath the jacket, the whole thing going, you show up with a bow tie. i can't catch up with you. >> i am actually copying you. i saw you wear something like that, i thought it was good. >> my friend, it is good to see

you, so if you have any questions for me, you can email me. good to see you, jonathan capehart, sunday shull starts at 10 am eastern. right after the, break we will look at our nation, including with -- through a critical lens. a truthful critical lands, this is velshi. thi is velshi. when i break a long run, i'm talking long, long. that's why i use old spice triple protection sweat defense. [announcer] there he goes. old spice works harder for longer. hey derrick man, you gonna be much longer? it's gonna be a minute, minute. hey derrick, quit playin'. derrick! okay everyone, our mission is to provide complete balanced nutrition for strength and energy. woo hoo! ensure, complete balanced nutrition with 27 vitamins and minerals. and ensure complete with 30 grams of protein. ♪ ♪

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and it's easy to get a quote at libertymutual.com so you only pay for what you need. isn't that right limu? limu? sorry, one sec. doug blows a whistle. [a vulture squawks.] oh boy. only pay for what you need. ♪liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty♪ we introduce a new series this

weekend called the vest she banned a book club. it will feature book and authors that were pulled from library shelves and reading lists across the country. we invited nikole hannah-jones on the show yesterday, to help us kick it off. because her reframing of american history, to include slavery as central to the birth of this country, for the 16 19 project, has been met with such backlash, and it feels like the catalyst to this new dangerous wave of book banning, that we are seeing right now. i asked professor hannah-jones, why she thinks people are so afraid of learning more about, and re-framing our history.

here's what she told me? >> so much of this national identity in this country, has been built around this concept of american exceptionalism. we stake a lot in the idea that we are, and exceptional country, and exceptional force for good. we are the first country the world has ever seen. that has hinged on thinking about 1776, and being about colonists, who broke off from this oppressive empire. in order to get their freedom. to re-center american identity around the fact that we were enslaved nation, and slavery was pivotal to our development, it's deeply unsettling to people. history is about power, who gets to shape what we know happened in the past. , that has been intentional. >> this year's black heritage month comes at a time when we are facing nearly unprecedented threats to our democracy. the challenge right now is not

just about raising awareness, about hidden and forgotten figures or marginalized groups or narratives, it's about stopping attempts to outright erase history, including black history. from american history. and a powerful essay, this week columbia journalism professor recounted the very blunt way, he tried to explain the role of slavery, in american history, and identity, while giving a talk at bates college in may. he describes being welcomed by students around campus, greeting a u.s. senator before his feet. and being introduced by the university's president, and then telling them all, quote, this place only exists, because of racism. now. he was met with uncomfortable silence. his words were not wrong. it came to being, as a free u.s. state, as part as the missouri compromise. which allowed missouri to enter as a slave state. his point was accurate. it was not meant as an insult, it was not directed at anyone

in the, room but professor carbs concept, is also true, in part as professor hannah jones has tried to explain, of the entire country. much of the prosperity that america has enjoyed since the beginning, the very fact that it overtook the entire british economy, shortly after independence, is because america existed on, and prosper from free labor, which is just a nicer way of saying, slavery. that is a fact. as comfortable, or uncomfortable as it may be. in her new book, titled south america, journey below the mason-dixon, to understand the soul of a nation. she lays it out in stark terms, quote american exceptionalism, that sense that we are somehow, special and ordained as such, is a myth. said amended on southern prosperity, oil, coal, and cotton. every piece of evidence of our national distinction, has relied upon this wealth of the nation. as you certainly have already gleamed, i do not think

genocide, slavery, and exploitation, were worth it. joining me now is the f4 mention doctor. professor of african american studies, at princeton university. she is the author of the new york times bestseller, south to america, and journey below the mason-dixon, to understand soul of a nation. jelani cobb, also joins me. he is a staff writer for the msnbc political contributor, director of the center for journalism, for civil and human rights. at columbia university. thank you to both of, you i'm very disappointed as i look at the, clock this feels like a 3 to 4-hour conversation, but we will do it, in short order. professor perry, let me start with you. this is a basic understanding that americans don't have. there is this wildly successful country, that led the world in everything. because, we did not pay for labor. we continue to struggle to this

day, with the legacy of wanting to find the cheapest way to get things done, and when we can find it in america, we can't pay people to little in america, we just send it off to china or somewhere else. we have a legacy of trying to get stuff for free in this country, it started with black people. >> absolutely. i love that you phrase that way because, it is a disposition towards work, and humanity. it is not just, the question is what happened in the past, but ways of doing things. this is part of why, i focus in the book, on the culture that was created as a consequence of slavery. and also, to understand that we, although we live in the midst of cultural wars, the reality is that they are both predicated on a kind of mid. there is a lost cause myth on one side, and the national mythology that you just described, the ever more perfect miraculous success without understanding also the violence and exploitation underneath it. to me, the approach that we

need to take, is just -- a creative examination, looking, attending to this or, that in different, ways to understand the substance of what our history has been, with the hopes of it becoming more decent. >> professor cobb, let me ask you. i think your main example was fantastic, because it was just a fact. just a fact. weather makes people uncomfortable or not, i don't think you intended for anyone in maine to feel bad about the fact that their state exists as a consequence of racism. but it is these basic facts that we need to understand as a country, in order to accept our country's history. what happens, when you succeed in a conversation like, that people say oh, these are things i did know. makes me smarter. >> the first thing is that you become more capable of engaging with the president, and the moral concerns that are placed in front of you. the biggest and most basic

cliché, is to not understand where you are going, without understanding where you have been. furthering in that essay i talked about how -- i could not talk to the people in florida, or texas. in california, we could've gone through all of these different states that had the similar origin stories, that were connected to slavery, white supremacy, to the exploitation of africans and indigenous people in this country. and so, people think you bring these things up in order to somehow tear country down. but as i always point out, teams watch the game tape to see what they got wrong. we review history to understand what our historic weaknesses have been, in order to better fortify us and ourselves in the present. as a last point, i have to say, this stiff competition for this, i might be professor perry's biggest fan, i'm excited. almost childish lee gleeful when i got this book, her

latest book, south america, and the mail. >> you are both adding to the work that we all need to reach. he's in the middle of your book right now, stay with, me there's a lot more to discuss, i want to talk to you on the other side of the break. i want to talk to you on the we discover exciting new technologies. other side of the break. redefine who we are and how we want to lead our lives. so what's yours going to be? subway's eat fresh refresh has so many new footlongs, here's how they line up. we got the new chicken & bacon ranch, new baja steak & jack, and the new baja chicken & bacon, aka "the smokeshow." save big. order through the app. ♪ ♪

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i want to continue my conversation with dr. amanny perry, the author of the new book "south to america," jelani

cob, staff writer for "the new yorker". i don't think either of the books are banned or challenged at the moment, correct me if i'm wrong, but they're remarkably important reads. jelani, you have an interesting quote from your essay i want to read about black heritage month. despite the chronic questions about its relevance, or whether it is divisive, it is easily the most sustained engagement the american public has with any of its history during the year. given the player crises confron, we need more engagement with our history, not less. february happens to be our best starting place. interesting point you make. we all pay real attention to the black history this month. imagine if we paid this kind of attention to all history all year. >> it is true. it is such a weird, strange kind of thing that people get offended by. because, you know, we don't, as

a general rule, engage with the history of our constitution. one of my prime points is that, you know, we have a public that is starkly divided between democrats and republicans, most of those people don't know where those parties came from. how the democrats came into existence and how the republicans came into existence. we don't engage with the history of our institutions. how did we get public education in the country. all these things we don't really engage in and what black history month has proven to be has been an avenue through which we get at all of these other interests and all these other issues through the specific question of how it related to the history of black people in this country. >> you write a lot about the south. earlier in the show i played a segment from a conversation i had with people in jackson, mississippi, back in october. in the midst of this conversation about confederate heroes and statues and what people do or don't learn in school, we still have a bit of

this lost cause thing going on in the south. a lot of our viewers don't know people that go to public schools in the south of the united states actually learn a different history than some of us do in other places. >> absolutely. and i think -- and there is a problem with it, but there is also a problem with expunging so much of southern history in those other places to go back to the earlier point that one of the -- part of the consequences want south becomes this sort of other backwards problematic place instead of understanding this history belongs to us all. and so i think there is a way of -- i think there is a way this ought to -- this prevalence of the lost cause narrative ought to actually be a moment for us to begin to investigate more generally across the board about how we tell our stories. >> that's a great and interesting idea, the idea this is the history of us all. how this relates to us all. when i first interviewed nicole hannah jones after the 1619

project came out, my first view is you added to my knowledge of history, my wealth of history. you added a date, a piece of relevance. so to your point about why people object to it, jelani, is there a way we can frame this as more of our history, deeper and more textured as opposed to compartmentalized bits of our history that should give anybody offense? >> sure. i think that we heard people say for a long time that black history is american history. and to the point where i think that it is kind of faded into the background. we haven't really thought about what the implications of that are. but i'm in favor of us having a more serious engagement with the entirety of the nation's history. and whatever sponsorships or programs or events or kind of endorsements we need to make that happen, i think we should do that. >> professor perry, i want to ask you about how you think we get away from this current trend that we're in about banning

books. some of it is logistical and done on the ground by people who attend school board meetings and run for office. how worried are you about the trend and what do you think we need to do aboutied about it. there is this investment, telling a story of the nation, that actually limits the capacity for young people to develop a critical consciousness about the world that they occupy. it is literally cutting off the moral imaginations of our children. i think we should take it very seriously and those of us who are involved in any sort of community ought to take the kind of position you're taking, we will read these books and talk about them and won't allow the silencing to occur. i love ida b. wells quotation, people must know before they can act. so our responsibility is to know.

>> i'll appreciative the both of you came on to talk to me about this morning. dr. imani perry, the author of "south to america: a journey below the mason dixon to understand the soul of a nation" and jelani cobb, both are prolific authors. if you get a chance, read everything they write. i want to make an important acknowledgement, today is february 6th, it is a great day, with great birthdays. babe ruth, bob marley, ronald reagan, rick astly, who i'm never going to give up, the birthday two of our own at "velshi," rich pegala and jared blake, they work very hard every day to make this program go along with the rest of the staff. i like them a lot. so i want to say happy birthday to them on tv. jared wrote these words that i'm reading right now. so i have no idea what's coming next. one would think he would make this shoutout better for him.

happy birthday, guys. enjoy it. that does it for me. thank you for watching "velshi." get a copy "of all boys aren't blue," it is the inaugural book for the "velshi" banned book club. stay in your seats, folks. the news isn't over. "the sunday show" starts right now. republicans trying to rewrite history, calling the deadly insurrection legitimate political discourse. as we learn more about the scale of the coup attempt. former impeachment manager congressman eric swalwell joins me live to discuss the latest. plus, the booming jobs report that beat everybody's expectations. how will democrats capitalize on the good news? house majority leader steny hoyer will tell me. and letter from birmingham jail, civil rights hero dr. clarence jones tells the story you don't know about mlk's iconic