"morning joe." we'll have a big announcement about who's going to be at the 30/50 summit. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage right now. i'm stephanie ruhle. we have a lot to get to. as we come on air, a crucial meeting, vladimir putin sitting face-to-face with france's prime minister emmanuel macron as we learn that russia has 70% of the troops it needs in place for a full invasion of ukraine and that kyiv could be one of the first cities to fall. overnight, new developments in the controversy with joe rogan, spotify taking down some 100 episodes because they contain b. racial slurs. but the ceo says he does not

believe silencing rogan is the answer. the latest on the republican party tying itself closer and closer to former president trump. this morning we have brand-new sound from trump during an interview with "the new york times'" jeremy peters in which he essentially lays the groundwork for the rnc's resolution that called the january 6th insurrection, quote, legitimate political discourse. even when rioters were calling to hang vice president mike pence. >> did it bother you to hear them say they wanted to kill pence? >> yes, i don't -- it did bother me. i didn't like it. i think it was an expression. i don't think they would have ever thought of doing it. i also think that there was an ill filtration with some very bad people in there, there was an infiltration. >> antifa? >> absolutely.

>> we should make it clear, there was absolutely no evidence that anifa was involved on january 6th, but we're hearing all of this at time when former vice president pence has made his strongest statement yet, openly rejecting trump's claims that he could have overturned the election, saying the former president is wrong. new this morning, "washington post" reporting that the national ar kooifs had to go down to mar-a-lago to get documents that should have been turned over by the trump white house. i want to bring in leigh ann caldwell on capitol hill, ashley parker, bureau e chief at "the washington post," nbc reporter robin riley covering the justice department, and tom lo bianco, who wrote a book on mike pence called "piety and power." liz parker, let's talk about trump. he says that "hang mike pence" was just an expression. this is exactly how republicans build this alternate reality

when they try to call january 6th legitimate political discourse. why does this help them? trump lost the last election. they lost power in congress when he was in office. he has lost support since the 2020 election. why is it that republicans continue to tie themselves to a stone cold loser? >> that's all true, but former president trump has not actually lost power within the republican party. and certainly not within the base of the republican party. that's what you're seeing with that legitimate political discourse, you have all these republicans following former president trump's lead and whitewashing what happened on january 6th since about january 6th for over a full year now. they understand within their party trump is most powerful

influential republican. he's not announced if he'll run in 2024, but the expectation is he will, and if he does, he very easily wins the republican primary. you see these republicans scrambling not to double down on conservative principles but to please that audience of one. >> let's move beyond traditional conservative principles and talk facts, reality, and decency. i want to remind people what republicans are describing as legitimate political discourse, you post alleged video a few days ago showing rioters spraying cops as they try to break into the capitol. on pla what planet do republicans claim this as legitimate? are they banking on the fact that people have forgotten what happened on the 6th? >> yeah. i think they've tried to draw this distinction after the backlash given that statement, saying, okay, everything we're talking about is not about the violence on january 6th, we're talk about some of the efforts

to overturn the election. the problem there is that's not legitimate either as the courts decide it. the courts decided this isn't a legitimate -- these aren't legitimate claims. i think the problem going forward is that video that i posted came out of one of these court cases that ongoing. these court cases are going to continue to produce evidence that shows how violent this was. as these cases go on and go to trial and we see pleas we'll see video evidence of these violent attacks on officers that day. it will make it really inveentd going into 2023, 2024 for republicans who wanted to say this wasn't a really big deal, this was just some sort of legitimate form of protest. >> tom, tom, tom, let's switch gears and talk about mike pence. i want to play part of what trump told jeremy peters about pence. listen to this. listen to this

>> now, it is very, very unusual for mike pence to defend himself, especially in the face of trump, but on friday, pence told the federal society that trump is wrong. explain to us how much of a big deal that is given who mike pence is and the beating he's taken by trump before. >> absolutely. one thing before we get to pence, i was surprised by the amount of equivocating trump does around this. there were two interviews, march of '21 and july of '21, he's

very ambivalent about it. it's shocking. with penls, what you have to watch with him is you have to watch his action, not his words. he's done the un-american thing before, put that out there before, but for whatever reason -- and him going out there directly saying that trump was wrong, that caught this time. i think he can also see that in trump's own reaction, his muted reaction to it, because instead of giving oxygen to pence in this moment to continue controlling the limelight, which is stunning to even talk about pence in that regard, you know, he kind of pulls back a little bit. pence is controlling this moment. he's doing a great job of it. he's using his training over 30-plus years in politics and, you know, nobody of course has declared for president, but it sure looks like he's running a shadow campaign for president right now along with the rest of that shadow primary field.

>> the most aggressive we have seen pence thus far. leigh ann, on the same day the rnc passed that resolution to censure liz cheney and adam kinzinger, i want to talk about that. kinzinger was with us earlier today. >> there are members of the republican party probably who have been there for 30 years that are scared to death of the mob excluding them, that they won't even speak up. the rnc deserves every aspect of backlash that is going to come down on it, and this is a defining moment in american politics and in the rnc's future, are you for authoritarianism, against democracy, or are you going to wake up to that slide and come back to actual democracy again? >> leigh ann, maybe this should be a defining moment in terms of american democracy, but what's the reaction on the hill? >> well, there's some fracture among the republican party on how to deal with what happened on january 6th, and we saw over

the weekend that, like you said, the rnc decided to take the position of the third of the country, the third of the republican base, i should say, that believes that it was just legitimate political discourse. we see that in the mob squad on capitol hill. they repeat that over and over again. but there are some members of the republican party who say that, in fact, it wasn't, that january 6th was not good, that it was a problem. and those are the voices that we heard on the sunday shows over the weekend. let's listen to them. i just want to say these are the ones who are willing to go on the sunday shows and talk about it. let's play it. >> do you believe january 6th was in any way legitimate political discourse? >> no. it was illegitimate political discourse because it was an assault on the first branch of government. >> i do not agree with that statement if it's also applying to those who committed criminal offenses and violence. >> i did not see a lot of legitimate political discourse.

>> what they want to hear about is what are the republican solutions for 2022, and what the rnc has done and mcdaniels did this weekend is to distract from that. >> that is a great point, leigh ann. most republicans even willing to go on tv, it's a big deal. ashley i know there's more developments coming out of the january 6th committee around these documents. what can you tell us? >> well, one thing that i've been reporting on with my colleagues is the extreme shredding basically of documents that was first reported by politico in the middle of trump's presidency but was far more widespread than anyone realized. this is trump basically in defiance of the presidential records act just ripping up sort of indiscriminately everything from memos and briefings to schedules and articles. my colleagues reported that when the national archives turned over to the january 6th

committee some of the documents they requested, some of them had been ripped and taped back together, and two new developments, one, there were some documents that the committee requested about trump's pressure on pence to overturn the results of the election. a lot of those documents no longer exist because they had been previously destroyed was how it was described to us. then just this morning we were reporting that the national archives had to go down to mar-a-lago in january to retrieve some documents including the letter that former president obama left trump, the sort of tradition between presidents, some correspondence between trump and kim jong-un of north korea that was improperly taken from the white house and moved to mar-a-lago and really needed to be in the national archives. this is something the archives discover and took steps to rectify and showing how widespread this shredding, burn

documents was. and we don't know the full magnitude of what might have lost yet. >> scores of documents destroyed. important reminder, one of the things that propelled donald trump was he was constantly railing against hillary clinton destroying emails, deleting emails, and alas the archives had to go to mar-a-lago to get this stuff. tom, big question. could mike pence get called to testify before the committee? and if so, might he actually do it. we know he was nowhere to be seen during the impeachment hearings. >> yeah. great question. singular question for him. absolutely. you know, i never see what these other -- he runs one of the tightest political operations in the world. mark short has testified. other former pence staffers have testified so far. and to your point, to your question here, it makes me wonder if this two-step he's doing right now will suffice. short was with him there at the

capitol on january 6th. he witnessed in of the same things that pence and his family witnessed. but will that be enough? pence tried to deflect this about a month and a half ago on new hampshire on a quasi-campaign trip he was doing. i think if you're pence, this has to be one of the things you fear the most at this point. you try to brush it aside by ending out people like short to talk about it. >> it was mark short who said trump was advised by snake oil salesmen. it will be interesting to see how this plays out. thanks for joining us this morning. coming up, we're going to cover this crucial meeting about to get under way in russia as world leaders try and push putin toward a path that doesn't lead to an all-out war. and joe rogan apologizing for using racial slurs in the past as spotify says it won't psi lins him. s spotify says it s spotify says it psi lins himn.

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fresh warnings that russian military forces could invade ukraine any day now. a new u.s. assessment says vladimir putin has amassed 70% of the combat power for an invasion, suggesting such a move would be catastrophic and the billest military conflict in europe since world war ii with kyiv potentially falling in days from now. happening right now, french president emmanuel macron meeting russian president putin in moscow.

later this afternoon, president biden will meet with the new german chancellor at the white house. national security adviser jake sullivan telling nbc news the biden administration is still hoping for a diplomatic solution. >> we are prepared to sit down with the russians alongside our allies in nato and other partners in europe to talk about issues of mutual concern in european security. what we're not prepared to negotiate are the fundamental principles of security that include an open door to nato for countries who can meet the requirements. >> the biden administration officials also telling lawmakers that a large-scale russian invasion could kill as many as 50,000 civilians and prompt a refugee crisis across europe. joining me to discuss, mike memoli, mike bradley and general barry mccaffrey, former national security adviser council member. and the deputy national security adviser to president george w.

bush. michael, what more is the white house saying about this new intelligence assessment? it's major. >> a stark assessment by the u.s. intelligence agencies. u.s. officials do not believe that vladimir putin has made the decision to move ahead with an invasion, but this assessment offers a really stark picture of how quickly he's capable of executing one if we were to go ahead. this assessment suggests that russia could take the capital of ukraine, kyiv. they've amassed 83 battalionings on ukraine's border, another 14 on their way to join them. at that pace, they are ready for a ground invasion as soon as february 15th. we also include the weather forecast because that is the optimal time for those russian tanks to roll at that stage. according to this assessment, the toll would be significant, as many as 50,000 ukrainian citizens would be injured or killed, 25,000 ukrainian soldiers, and that refugee toll is significant as well, 1 million to 5 million ukrainians potentially displaced throughout

europe. something allies would be concerned about. u.s. officials say while an invasion is likely, it's not necessarily unavoidable and president biden continues to work every diplomatic lever at this stage. we spoke yesterday by phone with emmanuel macron, who is meeting with vladimir putin today, a significant meeting. then today at the white house president biden sitting down for the first time with olaf scholz since he became germany's new chancellor, an important opportunity to present a united front when germany is scene as weak link. >> what's the reaction to this new intelligence report from ukraine? in the past couple weeks as we've spoken it doesn't seem like ukrainians are that faegzed but they should be if this report is anywhere close to real. >> yeah. the divide is just remarkable. it's been one of the more bizarre curiosities of this whole drama that the ukrainian government and people are so incredibly relaxed.

and even just a day after that assessment came out that mike memoli was talking about, we heard from the defense minister, alexei reznikov. he said there are many different hypothetical assessments that can be heard especially in the foreign media, that's us, stephanie, and some have announced an invasion of russia which took place eight years ago. that's one of the things we hear from ukrainians and the government. this is old news. russia invaded eight years ago and have occupied part of the country for a very long time. he said the probability of a significant escalation as of todayssessed as low. in other words, they don't believe there will be an invasion. i'm in the second largest city in ukraine and it's kind of the capital of russian-speaking ukraine. it's less than 30 miles from the russian border. you walk around here, everybody still seems very relaxed.

they're not that worried. a lot of them say they don't believe there would be an invasion. if there is, russians would roll through this city on their way to kyiv. it's hard to imagine why people would be so relaxed, but the fact is whatever the americans are seeing here, the ukrainians are not seeing it. stephanie? >> juan, can you help us understand that? we've got the headlines. 50,000 civilians could die. matt bradley is talking to people on the ground who are saying don't see that as possibility. >> i think the ukrainians are used to the current environment where, in fact, the russians are in the untri, they're occupying crimea, they have troops in dumb -- dombas to the east. there's policy and diplomacy where they may not be wanting to provoke the russians and create a sense of panic the country. i think the u.s. and western

countries are doing everything possible to warn and deter putin, but the ukrainians i think are going to have to live it and defend their country. i think they're trying not to provoke if they can help it. >> do you think there's a possibility at this point, juan, for a diplomatic solution? >> i think there is. i think if the assessment is true that putin hasn't made a final decision, i think the assortment of diplomacy plus deterrence, the troops into neighboring countries, the defensive weapons being sent in to ukraine, the threat of massive sanctions on russian banks, individuals, the financial system, and even the preemptive attribution that the u.s. government'sen gauged in, which i think is very smart to try to take away any justification the russians may have based on a false five operation, all of that in combination could slow or deter or maybe make putin hesitate as to what his next step will be.

i think if there's any question that putin has not made up his mind, diplomats and others need to keep working hard to prevent the conflict. >> general, russia amassing 70% of the troops it needs for an invasion, what does that tell you? >> intelligence officers, don't talk to me about enemy intentions. talk to me about capabilities. the russians have put together a force, ground, air, and sea, they have substantial 08-plus combat battalions ready to go in. this is not a bluff. i think putin was counting on a political cave-in by both nato and the ukraine, which he may still get, hopefully, because it's on the edge of a disaster. an invasion to seize all of ukraine, which is deeply

important to putin would be a disaster for europe and i think in the long run a disaster for russians. >> we know that putin met with the chinese lead nor beijing on friday. what does that tell you about the role china is playing here? >> well, of course a great question with china for all of us is will they try and use military power to seize taiwan. and we had to put that concern aside from ukraine, seizing taiwan over 100 miles of open ocean is going to be a risky, gigantic operation for chinese. i don't think they're going to try it. it could turn into an utter disaster. but i think -- and the chinese normally have not been prone to support offensive operations. so i think their support of the russians is skin deep. but it's scary to the europeans

to see these two significant military powers apparently coming together and supporting russian ambitions. >> it certainly is. general, juan, thank you both so much. michael, matt, as well, i appreciate you joining us this morning. serious business. we'll continue to focus on it. now we have to turn to some other news overseas out of beijing, where the 24th winter olympics are officially under way. shocking development on the slopes for medal favorite mikaela schiffren. crashed during the giant slalom. she is okay and still has four events left to bring home a medal for team usa. and the team needs it because right now usa is in 12th in medal count, taking home three silvers, including last night in the team event of figure skating. the controversy on the podium, vincent zho is absent after testing positive for covid. and sean white is officially

retiring. the five-time olympic snowboarder who has helped pioneer the sport announced over the weekend this will be his last olympic outing. away from the action, chinese tennis player peng shuai who diggs appeared from public life after three weeks after using social media to accuse a former political official of sexual assault. she met for dinner with the ioc chairman. she confirmed she is safe and at the winter games. she announced her official retirement. she again repeated her since deleted social media post had triggered the massive misunderstanding. coming up next, a move the ban lawmakers from trading stocks. we've been talking about this for months. it is gaining steam on both sides of the aisle. and guess where else? across america. will they act? how soon? time to change these rules. time to change these rules

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trading stocks. we told you about the bill introduced by bipartisan members of congress and saying democrats might be wanting to take action after being reluctant at first. it comes as democratic candidates nationwide are blasting president biden and speaker pelosi saying they should move full steam ahead. ali vitali has take an closer look. >> reporter: representatives abigail spanberger and chip roy aren't usually fightin' on the same side. i heard the only things you have in common might be uva basketball and banning lawmakers from trading stocks. is that true? >> we share a birthday. >> and a birthday. >> reporter: they're waging the bipartisan battle in congress. lawmakers are prohibited from insider trading, but there's nothing to stop them from investing in stocks. it became a problem in the early months of the pandemic when the department of justice opened probes into senators for both parties for alleged insider trade, a scandal that koesterich

ard byrd the gavel on the intelligence committee. that's when roy and spanberger started talking. >> we're voting on this stuff every single day, yet people are buying and selling stocks or pfizer in the middle of a pandemic. how is that okay? >> then our conversation was isn't it just sad that the response within the public sphere is, oh, yeah, of course, look what they're doing. >> reporter: across the criminal, john oshoff shares the sentiment. >> they should not be playing the stock market. >> reporter: they're barring lawmakers from buying or selling individual stocks while in congress, meaning they have to sell their holdings or put them in a blind trust. 75% of americans back the concept. and renewed momentum here after a recent report found 54 members violated law designed to prevent done flikts of interest and insider trading in 2021. last year congress and families sold more than $360 million in

assets. still some lawmakers in both parties are bearish on the efforts. >> to give a blanket attitude of we can't do this and we can't do that because we can't be trusted, i don't buy into that. but if members want to do that, i'm okay with it. >> i think what we're doing works. i follow the rules. others follow the rules. i don't find where all these people are making millions of dollars. >> reporter: even as others remain bullish. >> there's only 535 of us, right? there's 330 million americans. if you really hate that you can't day trade, all right, don't. >> reporter: ali vitali, nbc news, washington. >> amen to that. for those lawmakers who are hoping this story is going to make its way out of the news, guess again, not while i have a seat at the anchor desk. i want to dig deeper and bring in punch bowl news founder jake sherman. and dave leventhal. jake, there's all this chatter

about this but not a lot of evidence that we're going to see any rule changes. could these two parties score some major bipartisan points if they actually do something? 75% of americans say this is actual nonsense that congress can trade individual stocks. given the amount of info they have. >> very rarely, steph, has an issue been so clear cut politically. i don't think that there's anybody in this country, i mean, i know what the poll says, but given the information who would argue that members of congress should be able to play the stock market. dave and "insider" have done a terrific job of detailing some of that in their reporting. but it has to pass both chambers. nancy pelosi and chuck schumer can't do this on. they could do it separately or pass a law that would prohibit it. here's what i keep coming back to. members of congress who say v say they don't trade on insider information may not even know they trade on insider information. >> oh, come on.

>> no, listen. members of congress get so much information that it's just baked into their head. what i'm saying is they can't help but trade stocks based on what they know, you know? so it's -- >> no, i don't. >> you don't. i don't understand. >> i don't. that's a ridiculous argument. they have so much information. >> we're making the same point. >> if you are in the executive committee of a publicly traded company, you know exactly what information you know, what you can trade, and the sec is going to come after you. these lawmakers, i didn't realize this was a violation, give me a break. if you're in financial services, you know information about companies, about pending regulation. think about how much they know about pending cannabis regulation. they could become multimultimillionaires off of this. >> we're saying the same thing. i'm saying they can't help but know information. it's not as if they can remove themselves from information. they come across everything.

we're making the same point here. i'm not excusing them. i think it's such an obvious thing for congress to do, and the real roadblock is leadership. >> dave, you have been reporting the heck out of this. do you think this could become a real campaign issue? after we heard from speaker pelosi, kevin mccarthy jumped on it. but democrats across the country say they want to see rule changes and regulation. >> it's already become a campaign issue, and the bizarre part about this is democrats and republicans alike kind of not just the fringes of both sides of the party but increasingly toward the middle, are you running on this? they're also using it as sort of a weapon against the democratic leadership in both sides of the party. we reported on friday that senate leadership led by chuck schumer is open to the idea of

going forward with a particular bill. nancy pelosi has been resistant to this and sort of in a squeeze in a major way. she has said, oh, fine, if members of my caucus want to go ahead and do this, that's great, but, you know, she's not quite as on board at this point. so, expect this to get very political. the key will be the details. you know, there are about a half a dozen different bills that are pending. there's a house resolution that is pending. are we going to ban members of congress just alone from trading stocks? is that going to be extended to their families? is this going to involve blind trusts? there are a lot of different details that will have to be worked out if ultimately this becomes something that becomes law or rules in either side of the how else. >> how much pressure is nancy pelosi under from her own party, especially since kevin mccarthy has threatened to make this a campaign issue for republicans? >> i don't see her under much pressure, to be honest with you. she's not acting as if she is.

she says if members want to do it, that's fine, but she would have to put the bill on the floor and choose what bill goes on the floor and she would have to take action. it's not as if members of congress can do this without her. here's the baseline issue from people who are in favor of a ban. if you want to trade stocks, as chip said, don't come to congress. you could trade stocks all you want when you're out of congress. but this does not -- listen, nancy pelosi has been in congress for a long time. this would involve members of congress having to unhold their portfolios. there's tax implications to that. that's some of the things. it doesn't seem like a tenable situation and it has to seem like it will change in near future. >> put it in a blind trust. use an outside manager. don't be trading stocks yourselves. this is a top issue we're covering. for any lawmaker that wants to discuss it, does not want to see a rule change, please, joining us. we old love to get better and smarpter and understands all sides of this. thank you for joining me. something that 75% of americans think is an issue but

the government doesn't seem to want to address it, seems weird to me. coming up, the federal hate crimes trial for the three men charged for killing ahmaud arbery is getting under way right now. we'll bring you to the state of georgia for the latest. u to the u to the georgia for the latest whose red match your job criteria. visit indeed.com/hire and get started today. this is the sound of nature br g. and this is the sound of better breathing. fasenra is a different kind of asthma medication. it's not a steroid or inhaler. fasenra is an add-on treatment for asthma driven by eosinophils. it's one maintenance dose every 8 weeks. it helps prevent asthma attacks, improve breathing, and lower use of oral steroids. nearly 7 out of 10 adults with asthma may have elevated eosinophils. fasenra is designed to target and remove them.

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the trial is under way? >> reporter: good morning to you. the biggest thing we are going to see, the biggest difference from the state trial is that race is going to play a much larger role in these proceedings. remember, the prosecution here has the burden of essentially trying to prove that these three men, william roddy brian, and gregory and travel mcmichael, chased down and ultimately killed ahmaud arbery because of the color of his skin. of course they've been convicted of murder in the state trial. this is going to speak more to the motive. right now we're in jury selection. we know that's going to last a week, possibly two, but once the trial gets under way, the prosecution and pretrial hearings have alewded to the fact they want to bring in a number of text messages, they want to bring in facebook posts, social media posts that they say essentially prove that they had a racial bias against african american people. so, those are some of the things we're going to expect to see in these proceedings. remember, this is now going to be the second time that all of this is going on trial. and of course for wanda cooper

jones, ahmaud arbery's mother, that's a very emotional thing. she's not present for proceedings today and likely won't be here throughout jury selection and will possibly come with the actual trial dwelting under way. when i spoke with her attorney lee merritt, he said yes, it's emotional, but if that's what it takes to get her son what she calls full justice, that's what she's willing to do. >> blayne alexander, thank you. up next, new developments in the controversy surrounding joe rogan, spotify removing his episodes that contain racial slurs but saying that do not want to, quote, silence the podcast host. we'll dig into the latest next. ? cut. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. cut. liberty m... am i allowed to riff? what if i come out of the water? liberty biberty... cut. we'll dub it. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance

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rogan over those slurs. i want to bring in kara swish tore discuss. she needs no introduction, but she is "new york times" opinion writer and host of the sway and pivot podcasts. cara, first it was covid misinformation, now it's racial slurs. this letter from ec. is this their way of acknowledging the problem and hoping we can just move on? >> i don't know. i found the letter problematic. the word "silencing" and ""cancl culture" were all throughout it. it's a simple matter of, they didn't really listen to what he was doing and they have some responsibility for it. they don't think they have very much and now they're caught in the mess. it's sort of just a sloppy mess as far as i can tell. it sounds like they weren't listening to joe rogan, is my take. which i feel bad for joe rogan in that regard. >> to that very point, now using this "silencing joe rogan," isn't that meant to deepen this culture divide and trigger

people. nobody is getting silenced. they can have a code of conduct, here are some rules you need to adhere to and let's just make some corrections. this isn't about silencing anyone. >> one of the things that's problematic here, they're hurdling down a cliff and going for any grab, and "cancel culture" is a grab and "silencing" is a grab, it puts them in a heroic position, as if they're defenders of free speech, when, in fact, they just didn't do their job, at all. you know what i mean? they are editors of this thing. they kind of silenced joe rogan by removing episodes, now they're saying joe rogan did it, well, he silenced himself then. it's completely a mess. that's what you need to look at. essentially, spotify is a media company and they're not very good at it, is what it is. and they like to pretend they're not a media platform, that

they're just a benign company that paid joe rogan $100 million. and they get sucked into this culture thing, and you have vcs like mark andreys calling it the salem witch trials, which, obviously, didn't finish school long enough. and i didn't even understand it. i was like, oh, all right, now the historical takes that are inaccurate. but one of the things that's important here is, they should have a code of conduct, correct mistakes, and have advisories where there's accurate information. and again, joe rogan is explaining this thing pretty well, of what's going on. spotify is trying to use code words, and it's getting sucked up into, i don't know what. this is so tiresome. one of the things -- i'm about to interview one of the parents from sandy hook, who writes in this book that's coming out by elizabeth williamson, this is the impact of misinformation. this was the beginning of this kind of thing, where these crazy conspiracy theories took over

and really caused these parents who suffered the most unspeakable tragedy to suffer even further. while we're sitting around arguing over joe rogan, this is the real price of these things. and that's why you need to have fact checking and you have to be able to push back on really dangerous misinformation. it seems really simple, but they want to make it complex. >> but then, kara, is this not about spotify and not about joe rogan, but about regulation? right? i can't spew mountains of misinformation here in this seat, because we are regulated. spotify isn't, rogan isn't. rogan hasn't violated anything. >> no, he hasn't. that's absolutely true. i think the problem is, is when you want -- what regulation are you looking for? look, howard stern was fined -- the companies that ran howard stern were fined millions and millions of dollars almost constantly, he was sort of dirty, essentially. because the fcc was regulating it. and the so the question is, can

it be regulated? i'm not so sure, but there is a thing called editing that media companies are supposed to be doing and they're not doing that here. and then they are throwing up up a of these words like silence and cancel culture, which is the lazyiest things that you can imagine, instead of saying, oh, we didn't listen to it, and now that we've listened to it, we're talking with him -- they can't do plain talk because they would rather fight these culture wars. >> it's lazy, it's messy, and gets people talking, but certainly doesn't make anything better. kara swisher, thank you so much, always, for your brilliant insights. and finally this morning, we've got some news about this hour and me. it is hard to believe it, but for almost six years you and i have been meeting this way at the same time, monday through friday. and over these years, our goal in this hour is to help all of us get a little smarter and a little better every single day. i want to announce this friday

will be my last day and we have loved starting our day together at 9:00 a.m., what i consider to be a really critical hour of news. but i'm not leaving you entirely. soon, you will find me at the 11th hour to end your busy day and hopefully help make sense of the most important current events and news that really impacts our lives. we'll continue our goal to try make you better and smarter from the morning to night. so, from the beginning of the news day to 11:00 p.m. is where i am going to be moving starting march 2nd. in the meantime, my fantastic msnbc reports colleagues will bring you the information and news you need to know from 9:00 a.m. but until friday, you are stuck with me right here at this hour. and i'll be with you across the network and all of our platforms covering all things business. but from the bottom of my heart, i want to thank you for watching, today and always, you have made me better, and i have appreciated every minute i have gotten to be with you. jose diaz-balart picks up breaking news coverage on the other side of the break. thanks again. coverage on the other side of the break. other side of the break. thanks again more fresh and delicious taste.

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out of convenience, or necessity. we can explore uncharted waters, and not only make new discoveries, but get there faster, with better outcomes. with app, cloud and anywhere workspace solutions, vmware helps companies navigate change-- meeting them where they are, and getting them where they want to be. faster. vmware. welcome change. good morning. it's 10:00 a.m. eastern/7:00 a.m. pacific. i'm jose diaz-balart on a busy monday morning. as the united states warns russia could invade ukraine at any minute, western nations are ramping up efforts to avert a russian attack. here at home, more fallout after republicans censured representatives liz cheney and adam kinzinger for serving on the house january 6th committee. we'll also look at the extraordinary tactics the committee is using to get