recession to the tremendous damage to a lot of people. i'm glad that we disposed of this. this time around i'll be on the ideological victory in jurors. zach carter, the price of peace book on canes is a ministry. check it out. thanks, zak. >> thanks so much chris. that's all in on this monday night. the rachel maddow show starts now. you did it >> you did it again. again chris. you did it again. >> you're talking economic. for saving our velshi block from the last lot. >> i love it, have yourself a great night will see you tomorrow. oh thanks you at home for drove-ing us for this next hour. rachel's on hiatus, but as she told you before she left she will be here in a few weeks for the state of the union address. and that is scheduled for march 1st. it will be joe biden's very first state of the union address as president. not to be confused with the address last year which was made to a joint session of congress. and that's because when a new president gives a speech to a

joint session of congress, shortly after taking off, it's technically not a state of the union address. so next month, will be his first state of the union address as president. obviously, it's not gonna be the first one that was intended. in addition to being in congress for decades, as vice president. he sat behind president obama for seven state of the union addresses. so he's very familiar with the view from up on the -- in fact, he may be the most memorable thing about obama's 2014 state of the union address. when one of his signature pointing and dreaming and the oddest went viral. -- freezing have nothing to do with what was said by the president. harry truman's 1914 47 state of the union address was the first one to be broadcast on live tv. ronald reagan's 1986 address was the first ever to be

postponed because the challenger space shuttle disaster happened the day it was originally scheduled. after barack obama's 2010 state of the union, almost anyone can talk about was the moment when i sitting supreme court justice appeared to visibly disagree with the president while he was speaking. bill clinton state of the union addresses are largely remembered for being very, very long. not only does he hold the record for the longest state of the union address ever, but of the seven longest state of the union addresses in history, bill clinton delivered four of them. the other three by the way or donald trump. but trump's final state of the union address in 2020 will to be remembered for something having to do with nothing he said. in fact, nothing to do with him at all. it will be remembered for this. house speaker nancy pelosi at the end of trump's address

sitting right behind them and ripping up her copy of the speech into. immediately afterwards reporters caught up with her as she left the house chamber. >> madam speaker, what did you think of trump's speech tonight? >> i don't know. >> why did you rip up the -- >> it was a courteous thing to do. it's >> zinc. as you may remember the republican party immediately then fell into a hysteric pearl clutching of standards of decency at the core. which was pretty rich. given the standards of decency and decorum generally observed by the sitting republican president. when donald trump himself was asked about it a couple days later he took it even further. >> well i thought it was a terrible thing when she ripped up the speech. first of all it's an official document, you're not allowed, it's illegal what you. did she broke the law. >> it's illegal. she broke the law. that happened two years ago

today. and friends those comments have not aged well. first of all, a case that needs clarifying nancy pelosi did not break the law. she ripped up a photocopy of the president's speech that he gave her. destroying a photocopy of any presidential speech handed out to anyone with -- the prisons would be overflowing with washington lawmakers and staffers. but there is someone with a well-known history of actually destroying official presidential records. politico is the first to report back in 2018, that president trump had a habit of ripping up documents. and that federal government records specialist found themselves rescuing trump's hand shredded papers and trying to scotch tape them back together. even some that were torn into confetti sized pieces. because there is a law, the presidential records act, requiring as you, know presidential records be properly preserved and stored by the national archives.

sure enough on the january six investigation started receiving trump white house records that trump had fought for months to have them blocked from getting. some of them had indeed been ripped up and taped back together. and this week, the washington post reported that quote, trump shredding of paper was far more widespread and indiscriminate than previously known. throughout his presidency, staffers made a habit of coming in behind trump to retrieve the piles of torn paper left in his wake. and then quote, jigsaw-ing the documents back together using tape. and it went beyond just tearing things up quote, one senior trump white house official said that he and other white house staffers frequently put documents into burn bags to be destroyed, rather than preserving them. and we decide themselves what should be saved and what should be burned. the january six committee asked for certain documents related

to trump's efforts to pressure vice president mike pence, for example, some of them no longer existed in this person's files because they had already been shredded. a former senior trump official set of anything, he didn't want to record of anything. now i guess one simple straightforward way of describing that might be this. >> it's an official document. you're not allowed. it's illegal what you did. she broke the law. >> apparently not content to violate the -- just by ripping up documents into pieces or by putting them into burn bags or shredding them. or burning them. donald trump apparently took hold of a -- presidential records with him when he left the white house. and just stuck them at his golf club in florida. the washington post reports today, but the national archives had to go retrieve 15 boxes of documents and records from mar-a-lago. that should've been turned over

when trump left the white house. the national archives says, that trump staff are quote, continuing to search, and quote four additional records. that may have been thrown into trump's you all when he left the white house for mar-a-lago. and don't forget to check the clubhouse for any more letters from world leaders. make sure a box of presidential memorabilia or memorandum didn't get stuck behind the wet bar pool. the post, and now the new york times, both reports that the contents of the 15 boxes include, correspondence from trump and the north korean dictator, kim john. as well as a letter that president obama left for trump when obama left office. according to the times tonight, also in the box was his amazingly this. the national weather service map that he altered with a sharpie during a hurricane briefing in 2019. now you will recall that he used a sharpie to change the projected path of a hurricane in order to match what he had incorrectly said about the

hurricanes path in a tweet. dear leaders, tweet obviously couldn't be wrong. so an entire weather system had to be altered by sharpie to match it. yes, that sharpiegate map definitely belongs to in the national archives. we need a record of it, mostly because the people of the future will not believe that something so ridiculous ever happened. as for how those 15 boxes end up in mar-a-lago instead of the national archives, the times reports that it happened during a hasty exit from the white house when instead of packing up like a president planning to leave office in accordance with the law should have been, quote mr. trump spent the bulk of the presidential transition trying to find ways to stay in power. at the time mr. trump's age were either preoccupied with helping him overturn the election, trying to stop him or avoiding him. we're speaking of trying to overturn the election, there's no word yet on the question on everyone's mind. is there anything in those 15

boxes that might be of interest to the january six investigation. let's find out. joining us now is the reporter that had the original scoop today, that the national archives had recovered multiple boxes from the former president's mar-a-lago estate. washington post congressional correspondent, jackie alameda, jackie good morning thank you for being here. this is definitely one of those stories that you cannot make up, i'm sure you are never expecting that you would have to report on. but at fact we have had hints of this from the past. we are known for a while that donald trump has some sort of habit of destroying documents that he not shouldn't be destroying. >> yeah. like so much of what trump has done over the course of the last five years, he, did all of this pretty publicly and flagrantly. with -- four political had a brilliant story that the president had a habit of ripping up documents that he carried from his past life as a businessman into the white house despite it being

unlawful. and despite being warned by his former chief of staff, white house -- the entire apparatus archiving the and the whole process of the white house records management. and the transfer to the national archives had completely -- their approach because of the former presidents habits. he was riding up everything in sight. it was almost involuntary and pretty habitual. but this actually continued throughout 2021, right until he left office which we found out in the post -- about the january six investigation that we were not. we really had no idea it was gonna lead where -- the national archives telling us that actually it resulted in 15 boxes being retrieved from mar-a-lago after they were failed to beat properly trans from the trump white house to the national archives. this is in violation of the presidential records act and

perhaps even more importantly the archive said in their statement to us that this week, that trump's lawyers are still actually searching for additional documents that might be handing even more document nation over. >> -- so we know shredding we, now heard of burn bags. i don't know if that means that bring back stuff actually got burned. i spoke to omaha so manigault, who alleges that one point that she saw jonnel trump eating something. like ripping something up and eating paper. which she found odd even though he's a germaphobe. he doesn't put things in his mouth. what do we know about what we don't know, that's not their. is it possible that there are documents entirely missing that we may never find out about? >> so, we do know that the career sent at the management -- around the presidents tendency to sort of throw things at his own personal individual discretion into the burn bags regardless of whether or not they should be burned. the presumption is on an operating base under the presidential records at that

every document is a presidential record. it's fed to the people of the career staff around him to decide whether or not certain classified documents should be incinerated. so thrown into a burn bag and then take into the pentagon were ultimately those documents would get burned up. it's unclear if any documentation or maybe lost in that period when people haven't quite realize that this president was not abiding by the normal processes. but this recent development does cause some more questions about what don't be, what does the president still have at mar-a-lago. and what are they, what is actually in those 15 boxes. we're not actually sure -- the national archives to realize that they were missing a lot of documents that the would soon recover. they recovered last month from the mar-a-lago. but we do know that some of these documents have come out

we're -- real, letters with kim jong-un, and a letter from president obama that he left for president trump as he took office in 2016. that these were documents that were very publicly and widely in extensively reported unknown. and if the archives had decided that they were being potentially looking for a document, and because it was publicly recorded on they wouldn't have been able to find it intel this past month. >> well jackie, in part because of your fabulous forgive too much knows in the show tonight. and were overflowing with that so we can't discuss it with you now. but definitely next time we are we need to talk about that. cupcake. on the table. that's quite remarkable. -- but that is definitely a first for me. jackie alam 80, nice to see you share the congress guzzle correspond for washington post. congratulations on a very important story. today we're joined now by michael schmidt, washington correspondent in the new york times. giving new details tonight on the 15 boxes of records rescued

from mar-a-lago. michael also has a new reporting on the january six committee, he writes that their goal is not just to hold hearings and right reports they are hoping that their work will lead to criminal prosecution. investigation is quote, bahrain techniques from federal prosecutions, employing aggressive tactics typically used against mobsters, and terrorists as it seeks to breakthrough stonewalling from former president trump and his allies and develop evidence that could prompt a criminal case. the committee which has no authority to pursue criminal charges is using power as wet it has been hope inexpensive ways in hopes of pressuring the attorney general, merrick garland, to use the justice department to investigate and prosecute them. michael, good to see you. thank you for joining us. and your reporting tonight gets into a question that i think is every viewer's mind. what can this committee do given the running of the clock, the stonewalling that it continues to get from some

people around the trump orbit, and what's your priority to scrap is very much what i'm used to as a business journalist. when you see the government go after a company, where they start and then move their way up and they figure out ways to get the central character, even though the central characters will participate. >> i think that's. right the committee has done -- is taking an aggressive stance for several reasons. one of them is a lot of the attempts to hold donald trump accountable whether it was the -- investigation, the two impeachments, the other congressional investigation. those all while they all did political damage trump the ultimately lost the election. donald trump's tool moves. and it hasn't changed his behavior. it continues to push, push his brand of trumpism down into the country ways that it really concerns democrats and anti trump republicans. they're taking the most aggressive stance that we've

seen in any recent congressional investigation and going out and getting phone records. personal data of a lot of different people and they're using -- >> -- analysis a tool that the fbi uses years after. to identify terrorist networks to see who is talking to. they've looked at the -- chart of the white house and who was around the president. and they said okay, if mark meadows isn't going to talk to us and if there's other senior official won't talk to us who were the aids that were right underneath him. and who are the aids under that. and what did they know. because they notice when they went down the ladder the same way you go down the ladder looking at a mob organization those people can be more vulnerable and less loyal to the person at the top. certainly the younger you are the less money you have to hire

a high-end white-collar criminal defense attorney to defend you if you try to stop the committee from getting your phone records. or stop the committee from questioning. so the committee, is doing this -- to one to get to the bottom of what happened on january six. and everything that led up to. it but also, they're trying to come up with this -- damning evidence as possible to pressure merrick garland. they see this as their best opportunity to try and get the justice department to do something. garland has given no indication that there is been no public indication that he's investigating trump. or that the investigation into january texas head in that direction. and with the january six committee, if it could have its way, it would develop as much damning information as possible. and be able to tie it in good faith. in the good faith argument to

the criminal code. and say to the justice department, okay, we went out into this investigation here is what we found. these are the criminal laws that we think have been violated. you should do something. he would probably make something like that public. we and that with the very least, force the justice department to at least publicly address the question of what they're doing in regards to donald trump. now, merrick garland has shown immense independence in a short period of time. as attorney general. he may just try to ignore it. but there is a democratic party is being pushed the democratic leader is on the hill are being pushed by their base. which wants trump held accountable. and at the center of this is liz cheney, who wants to use the most aggressive techniques possible. she's considered on the committee to be the most aggressive member. she says, we're gonna get criticize no matter what we do.

they're gonna come after us matter what we do know. and they're not gonna cooperate no matter what we do. so we need to use every tool possible and that is why the january six investigation looks different than many, many other investigations that we've seen. >> so there's great reporting the new law today, there's also one big asterisks in which you say the committee's aggressive approach carries with an obvious risk, that it could fail to turn up compelling new information about mr. trump's efforts to hold on to power after his defeat or to make a persuasive case for a justice department prosecution. after all, mr. trump survived years of scrutiny by the special counsel and the russian investigation. robert as mueller the third and two impeachments. despite a swirl of new investigation since he left office the former president remains the dominant force in republican politics. in fairness, we are learning new things that we didn't know during the impeachment.

what's the point here, that we're not learning new things that fundamentally change everyone's thinking about what happened. we just have more details but we already know. we >> well, in many ways i think january six may be one of the most important historical that's to happen in my lifetime. that i've witnessed. in other ways, and because of that we need to learn as much as we can about it. how did it happen. who is behind. it who were the intellectual people coming up with the underpinnings of. it the plans of. it who of executing thinks, how did this all happen. how did thousands of people end up on the steps of the capitol in a violent attack that led to deaths, and to the interruption of one of the most sacred parts of our democracy. on the other hand, what else do you need to know about january six. to change your mind about what happened. donald trump said, everything

out loud. he still defends what he did. he is as open about it as possible. so there are two sort of competing issues here. and look, we're gonna get to the bottom as much as possible. it is a highly important event, i think the committee runs into difficulties when the report comes out because they haven't made a lot of news. they put subpoenas out there, the ones that put the subpoenas out every week generating the stories about the people that they want to question and get documents for. and all that has a beat to it, a momentum, that shows that this investigation is moving forward. now, when that report comes out and when you are done. where will that momentum have left the committee? will the committee have all the need, the narrative the entire newly-appendage of the efforts

to overturn the election that changed the way that we look at january six. or will it just be an evidence based version of media and book accounts of it. we don't know. but the expectation is high because the committee has put so much time and effort into this and has generated so much news. so, it will be interesting to see where they end up. what do they know. that we don't know. and any investigation that's the real question. you >> have said it as very well will. be talking to a member of the january six committee right after this. thank you for your great reporting,, michael see you again. michael schmidt at the washington post and the new york times. we've got a lot to get through tonight including breaking news out of the supreme court that says it's gonna have an impact on this year's all-important midterm election. we've got that hadn't as i said adam schiff, from the january six investigation joins us next. stay with us. januar x siinvestigation joins us

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republicans including many former republican members of congress released a statement criticizing the rnc for last week's ensure of representatives liz cheney and adam kinzinger for investigating the january 6th attack on the capitol. the republicans argue that the rnc's decision to describe the violence that day as legitimate political discourse we -- made clear that it would rather be the big lie party and the big tent party. still, despite the backing of only one of the two major political parties the january six investigation continues undaunted. the committee is also interviewed more than 475 witnesses and issued more than 100 subpoenas. with more depositions and revelations coming every day. joining us now is congressman adam schiff, one of the members of the january 6th select select committee. congressman, good to see you. thank you for being with us

this. evening i want to pick up a bit from the conversation that we were just having with michael schmidt, who says what happens when -- lots of information where more and more certain of the plot to overthrow the election, possibly democracy. it wasn't simply an attack on the capitol. that would've been bad enough. what happens if there isn't a cause donald trump to be held accountable through the midterm election. >> our goal is really to fully analyze what went into this multipronged effort to overturn election and how we protect our democracy going forward. that kind of recommendations we need to make sure we never have another january 6th or anything like it. it isn't really our role to prosecute the former president over to develop -- for the justice department to do so. the justice department should be doing their own investigation. they certainly are vis-à-vis the violence of january 6th. but they should be doing it investigation of these other

multiple lines of efforts to overturn the election. we will consider our work successful if we write the comprehensive report that took place. if we make a series of seven recommendations and if we inform the public about what went on in that respect, i think the series of public hearings were going to do will be every bit, if not more important than the ultimate report. >> when you make the point and you made it before that it isn't your job. not your role to do certain things and that the committee by nature of the type of thing it is does not have the ability to prosecute criminally, and that the justice department should be. what's your sense of -- it sounded a little like dissatisfaction from you. do you feel the justice department is pursuing this as vigorously as it should be? >> i feel they are pursuing the violence of january 6th vigorously, including people that were not present but nonetheless were involved in a seditious conspiracy. when i have less confidence

than's other efforts to overturn the election such as the former president on the phone with the secretary of state in georgia, trying to coerce that secretary into finding 11,780 votes that don't exist. i think if you or i or any of your viewers were on the phone recording the conversation like thought we would be under investigation. it shouldn't matter that this was a former president of the united states. those issues i'm concerned but in terms of our role and, we're going to get to the bottom of all of these efforts and we're going to make them public. and we're going to try to legislate -- to protect us from any recurrence. you >> make an interesting distinction from your book, whether you look at january 6th as a day and an attack on the capitol, a violent attack on the capitol or whether you see that remarkable, dangerous, dark attack on the capitol and on the process that was underway in congress as being the fruits of an effort to

overturn the election itself and to undermine democracy. it is that bigger second issue that is probably of greater long term concern to us as americans. >> i think that's exactly right. tragically, when we look back on these last few weeks at the anniversary of january 6th, or in a worse position than we were a year ago, because the republican party has decided rather than repudiate wet went into that violence of january 6th, rather than repudiate the big lie about the elections that drove people to that violence, they're using that line all around the country to disenfranchise people of color, to attempt to subvert the next election. their lessons seem to be if they couldn't get a secretary of state in georgia to find 11,780 votes that don't exist, they want to make sure they have so many in opposition and others the next time who will, and that threat goes on and in

that sense the work of our committee is not just looking backward, it's very much looking forward. >> congressman, good to talk to you again. thank you for being with us this evening. california congressman and member of the january six committee, adam schiff. we appreciate your time tonight. up next we've got breaking news out of the supreme court tonight. johnny nelson from the naacp legal defense fund joins us in just a moment to make sense of it. stay with us. in in just a moment to make sense of 7,000 dahlias, vegetables, and brisket for dinner. it this is my happy place. we've been coming here, since 1868. stay with us stay with us my grandmother used to say, don't call me, don't bother me. i'm going out to mow. there's a lot of cushy desk jobs out there, but i make the earth take the shape that i want it to take. there are millions of ways to make the most of your land. learn how to make the most of yours at deere.com realtor.com's draw a map feature helped us find what we wanted, where we wanted. so we could finally buy our first "big boi house." big boi house. big boi foyer!

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into seven congressional districts. the one outlined in red is the seventh. it's the only district in which majority of the people who live there are black. in 2020 when the united states collected census data, the number of african americans living in alabama had increased. meanwhile, the number of white people living in alabama decreased. yet, when republicans in alabama updated their congressional maps based on the new census data, they did not account for the change.

under the new alabama maps, the state would still only have one majority black congressional district out of seven, despite the fact that roughly one quarter of alabama residents are black. now the new maps were subsequently challenged in court and a free judge panel ruled that the new alabama congressional maps violated the voting rights act and to fix it, alabama would need to redraw the lines to create a second majority black congressional district. the state of alabama would appeal that ruling to the supreme court asking the supreme court to put a halt on the lower courts mandate. that they had a second majority black district. today, the supreme court did that. in a 5 to 4 ruling the supreme court reinstated the old alabama congressional map. the one with just one majority black district. they essentially put that lower court ruling on ice until the full case could be heard before the supreme court.

however, that's not gonna happen, probably until the fall. which means for now elections in alabama will be held according to the old map. the ruling has the potential to erode voting rights, not just an alabama, but it could have lasting implications for the entire country. joining us now is janai nelson, the associate director and counsel of the naacp legal defense and education fund, which is representing the plaintiff that brought this case. miss nelson, thank you for being with us this evening. this is a bit of a liars and a truth teller statement, because the supreme court justice kavanaugh's opinion of this suggests that they are acting in the interests of the citizens of the voters of alabama by not allowing changes to the maps as they say to close to an election. tell me what's wrong with that argument. >> there's a lot wrong with that argument. it allows a map to stay in place that a three judge federal court found to be

discriminatory and black alabamians. we have illegal funds that represents a co-counsel -- we represent individuals and black organizations and alabama have filed a lawsuit under the william rights act alleging that the new map that you just displayed is a dilution of black voting power, and we went through an entire seven-day hearing with 17 witnesses with a panel of judges with two of whom were trump appointees. that means the majority of the panel for trump appointees and after hearing the record evidence decided, in a 225-page decision, that a map that you displayed on the screen was racially discriminatory. it did not reflect the population in the 2020 census and it did not reflect the state's ability to draw a second district that would enable black alabamians to

elect candidates of choice. that is a violation of the voting rights act. it's clear the record supported that. in a district court saw fit to in joint implementation of those maps. unfortunately, the state of alabama petitioned the supreme court to state that injunction and the supreme court, based on a principle, not even actual law and precedent, but on a principle that was articulated in a case out of 2006 called purcell. the court, the concurring opinion is all we have to gives some sense of the courts thinking and reasoning on this, decided that allowing the maps to be redrawn within seven weeks of the earliest date of the kickoff of the election would somehow be disruptive and violating a principle that, as i said, it's not in fact law but a notion that has come to govern election law cases in the past several years. we are deeply disappointed that

the court erected this barrier, this barricade to voting rights and to political participation for black alabamians. the upshot is that this does not conclude our work. not by any stretch. we will continue to litigate this on the merits and that same record that allowed us to win before the district court should, if law is just, allow us to win in the supreme court. >> it means you'll go and argue it before the supreme court and it will be a real case. is there some sense, though, given the way the supreme court has been acting? i should point out the chief justice voted with the minority today against the decision that was taken. is there some sense that things will change because people like you make a better argument? >> we can only hope that that's the case. we can only hope that the supreme court is still a court that follows the rule of law, that when presented with a decision that is well reasoned and that is thorough as the one

we have seen in the 225-page decision from a court that heard seven days of evidence and spoke to 17 witnesses and evaluated all of the evidence with the lid -- deliberation, unlike with the court did hear where decided this on the shadow docket without any arguments. when the supreme court finally gave this case a full hearing, which black alabamians and every person in this country deserves, we expect that the court will do the right thing and recognize that this is a clear and blatant violation of voting rights act. >> janai nelson, we need to have more discussion but thank you for giving us your analysis for tonight. janai nelson is the associate director counsel of the mandible acp defense an education fund. >> the resignation in the biden administration. eric lander, head of the office science and technology policy who had a seat in president biden's cabinet has resigned

after a white house investigation found that he had mistreated employees. remember that biden had pledged early on that anyone in his administration who was caught mistreating colleagues would be fired on the spot. today, politico.com wrote the news that the results of the two month investigation had found quote, credible evidence that the lander had violated the white house's workplace policy. tonight the white house released a statement saying the president accepted his resignation quote, with gratitude for his work at ostp on the pandemic, the cancer moon shot, climate change and other key priorities. we will be right back. key priorities key priorities welammatory gel for powerful arthritis pain relief. voltaren, the joy of movement.

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ukraine. and that russia could be fully ready for an invasion by next tuesday. i'm starting to look at whether not this is a situation in which the dog may chase the bus, but wouldn't actually know what to do with it if he caught it. the dog being vladimir putin if it wasn't clear. the same u.s. official told nbc news this week that the u.s. assessment believes an all-out invasion by russia would likely cause significant casualties. killing or wounding up to 50,000 civilians and weeks. and making up to 5 million people refugees. and today president biden vowed that if russia invades ukraine they could say goodbye to their new massive natural gas pipeline from russia to europe. which is a huge potential blow to the russian economy. which gets most of its foreign currency from oil and gas sales. -- levied on russia by western nations if russia invades ukraine. president biden met with the chancellor of germany where the russian pipeline ends as a show of unity and force.

they both vowed that nato countries would respond harshly and swiftly if russia chooses to invade ukraine. so, what's in it for russia to move forward with this? and is there and a viable off ramp for russia if it decides not to. the other major diplomatic meeting today was between president putin himself and french president emmanuel macron. in moscow. we are chunk of yesterday on the phone with president biden to talk about putin today in person and tomorrow he heads to kyiv. so the situation is definitely a powder. taken it seems every day we're surrounding that powder kick with extra layers of dynamite. but there is a certain effort to find diplomatic solution here. and a very real consequences for russia if it chooses to invade. so what i want to know is does it really make sense for russia to start this war right now. joining us now is ann simmons, moscow bureau treat for the wall street journal. and, thank you for being with us, for joining us it's early

morning for you over there. let's just talk about. this is there enough teetering building for vladimir putin to think twice about this, or is the already thinking twice about this. is it possible there's no intention to invade and there's a real intention to get the intention of the last? >> thank you for having me. this nation remains really tense with ukraine. and there's very much a crises. we're very much in crisis mode. but the fact is that president macron came to russia today and met with president putin. president putin actually said that president macron presented certain suggestions that would indicate that there's a possibility that they could move forward on negotiations. there is a possibility that they could be some kind of concessions made. at this particular time it seems that russia is buying its

time. this buildup of 100,000 troops around ukraine is extremely troubling. but nevertheless negotiations are not off the table. >> how do you discern between negotiations, with emmanuel macron being there, with germany having said it's not so big on this idea of killing the pipeline plan. and what a lot of people referred to as neville chamberlain's appeasement of hitler, at what point do you draw the line. you can't just invade another country and you can't get concessions for threatening to do so. >> well, certainly, russia is going -- to they have not moved into ukraine yet. and they're still in their own country. yes, there is a buildup of troops that the kremlin has argued that look, we're in our own country were allowed to leave our troops wherever we wish. there is a way out of this in terms of negotiations. and it has been really clear

the one thing that they would like to see possibly is ukraine a dear to the minsk agreement. which would mean cease-fire, which would mean the possibly gone basque region, a region that's been ruled by separatists. ukrainian separatists. that area gets kind of special status. now, having said that this is a threat. there are 100,000 troops around ukraine. and, they are in a position where they couldn't move at any day. >> the russians, as you've indicated have taken the position that they can move troops as they wish. and that these are exercises and things like. that there's evidence in the last few days that it is more than what you just do for exercises. they're setting up hospitals, field hospitals, blood supply the kind of thing that is not logical for exercises.

but they're not actually stating that they are going to invade ukraine, they actually in fact say that that is hyperbolic. what is your sense of what's really going on to the extent that you or anybody can know that? >> it's really difficult to tell, ali. one of the stress between putin has been to keep the world guessing. keep people. gassing keep people on their. toes and that kind of gives him the. edge now there is no way to know whether or not the kremlin is indeed going to invade. russian officials have been insisting that they will not. but again, time will tell. these troops are still at the border. and there is a great price that mr. putin and russia would pay if they were to invade ukraine. it's not only going to be a loss of life, it's gonna be a huge hit to the russian economy if they are faced with these punishing sanctions that the u.s. has promised. and russia's very aware of

that. the one thing that the kremlin has said it is a red line, if ukraine is allowed to join nato. now nato has said that it continues to have this open door policy. and has said that it is in a position to invite membership whoever it wishes. russia has said that's a red line, if ukraine is allowed to join this alliance. >> and that is a subject for a very long discussion which hopefully will be able to have, and thanks, for being up with us tonight. and since the moscow broke through for the wall street journal we appreciate your time. all right coming up next something to keep your eye on tomorrow. stay with us. ye o tomorrow stay with us stay with us

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gunman held a rabbi and three others hostage in a texas synagogue and claim that america only cared about jewish lives. and spend two weeks since a group of neo-nazis and boston protested outside a local hospital and held up signs saying that the hospital kills whites. it's been one week since the neo-nazi group took to the streets of orlando to waive swastikas that antisemitic signs and scream about how jews are behind it all. and it got violent. the group attacked, pepper sprayed, beat up and spit on a jewish college student, reportedly because he had an israeli flag icon on his license. on the same day of that neo-nazi protest, another

different neo-nazi group showed up on an orlando interstate overpass waving a giant swastikas flags over. it's been nearly a week since the latest round of bomb threats have been -- over 50 historically black colleges and universities or hbcus across the country. in florida and arkansas authority said three of those hbcus received bomb threats from neo-nazis who threatened to blow up and shoot up their schools. just today the department of homeland security issued a new bulletin warning of a heightened threat of terrorism. the alert states that there are quote, continued calls for violence directed at faith-based institutions and racial and religious minorities. the recent attacks on a synagogue in texas highlights the continuing threat of violence based upon racial or religious motivations, as well as threats against faith-based organizations. threats directed against hbcus and jewish facilities cause concern and may inspire an

extremist -- to mobilized violence, and quote. recognize a pattern here? it's against that backdrop that republicans had blocked president bidens pick to be the special on -- monitor and combat antisemitism. biden nominated world renowned holocaust historian and professor deborah litt stack for the role, more than six months ago, lips that is respected around the world as one of the leading holocaust scholars, but because the position carried the title of ambassador it required senate confirmation. president biden nominated lip stat in july and tomorrow she is finally going to get a confirmation hearing. her nomination was stalled for months and during that time neo-nazis have continue to terrorize and threaten jewish people and people of color. now just might be a good time to have a special envoy to combat antisemitism. that does it for tonight. we will see you again tomorrow night. it is time now for the last word with my friend lawrence o'donnell. good evening, friend.