for some reason there seems to be this attitude of not accountability. like, i can say or do anything i want. today we are standing together. it stops today. >> after the press conference, congressman rodgers updated repeated his apology in a tweet and congresswoman beatty accepted the apology. that is our broadcast for this tuesday night. with our thanks for being with us, on behalf of all of my colleagues at the networks of nbc news, goodnight. f my colleagues at the networks o if you are regular viewer of the show, and then you will probably recognize this. this quite nutty thing that happened at the state capitol in lansing, michigan, back on december 14th of 2020. a group of 16 michigan republicans came to a side door at the state capital and tried to get in. . you now, inside the capitol at

the time, michigan was going through the official process by which the states presidential electors were sent up to the electoral college. joe biden, kamala harris, won the vote in michigan in 2020. so, that meant the electors for biden and harris were casting their votes in the electoral college, inside the michigan state capital that day. but, these republicans that just showed up were trying to get in because they said they were real electors for trump. >> the capitol is closed, unless you have an office here to conduct business today, anyone else here is not meant to come in here. >> we are part of the electoral process. but the electors are here, they were detected. >> not all the electors are inside. >> the capitol is--. calls all 16 electors have already been advised by the governor's staff were -- ready here. >> but these are the rest of the electors.

>> i understand, but the capitols closed. >> when these michigan republicans did this, at the time, it kind of seemed like play acting. like they were playing some fed to see off a trump victory. but they didn't just disperse after they couldn't get into the states capitol, they created and, all of them, signed a forged document, claiming to be the official slate of presidential electors of the state of michigan, and claimed that they were the states duly elected and qualified electors. and they sent that fake certificates to the united states senate and to the national archives, as though it was legitimate. republicans did this in a number of different states that day, in what we now know was a scheme orchestrated by the trump campaign and trump allies of the government to try to falsify the election results, and keep donald trump in power. the plan was that, ultimately, when vice president pence presided over the certification of the election in congress on january 6th, pence could use

these fake slates of electors to overturn the election results and declare donald trump the winner. as we know, mike pence declined to do that. and just last week, pence said that donald trump is, quote, wrong to say that pence had the power to overturn the election. but the more we've learned about the fake elector scheme, the clearer it's become just how well the ground we had been prepared for mike pence to overturn the election if trump, or the violent mob that stormed the u.s. capital on january six, had managed to pressure pence into doing it. for instance, those fake republican electors in michigan, why were they trying so hard to get into the state capital that they-- it wasn't just because they wanted to play acted being the real electors. michigan law actually says that the states presidential electors must meet inside the capital at 2 pm on december 14th. they wanted to fake forge certificates to appear legit enough to win and overturn the

election, they had to get inside the capitol and the votes are there. they had to take some selfies to prove they were inside like the law says they have to be. but look at this forged certificate that the michigan electorate submitted to the united states senate. quote, we convened and organized in the state capital, in the city of lansing, michigan, at 2 pm eastern standard time on the 14th day of december, 2020. that was the required language. but it was a lie. they never got in, making the certificate fraudulent, in more ways than one. they were lying in the middle of lying. now, while the broad outlines of the scheme have been coming into focus in recent weeks, how the scheme was organized, the actual nuts and bolts of the logistics has remained a bit of a mystery. but now, a reporter in michigan has made a major advance in our understanding of how that went down. craig monger at the detroit news has obtained emails sent

to rudy giuliani, and his buddy, bernard kerik, both of whom were investigating voter fraud for the trump campaign. the emails were updates on the fake elector scheme in michigan, sent by a lawyer involved in the trump campaign's efforts to overturn the election. crucially, in these emails, this lawyer is telling the trump campaign that he's been working with one of the fake michigan electors. this is one of the emails. it was sent by this lawyer. his name is kenneth chavez, he sent this email on december 11th, 2020. so, three days before the electors needed to cast their votes, you can see that rudy giuliani 's campaign, as well as another campaign official. quote, mr. kerik, thank you for your call. a touch the memos i mentioned which should help the michigan people get up to speed on some of the reasons for having all electors vote in all contested states. last night, i emailed to michigan grassroots vice chair marion sheridan a draft packet

of materials to use for the voting. i will have an updated package later this afternoon, which i'll forward both to you and her. and quote. mary and sheridan was one of the fake electors. with three days later, she would sign the fraudulent certificate asserting that she was one of michigan's duly elected and qualified electors. the detroit news reports that less than two hours after that email, quote, just broke sent an other message that included a seven document package for michigan, including a checklist for voting. the email said he would leave it to kerik and to trump campaign officials to determine who should receive these materials. now, the fake michigan elector that this lawyer claims to have sent the material to would not answer any questions from the detroit news. rudy giuliani didn't respond to a request for comment, and bernard kerik's attorney told the detroit news that he probably received such an email but he doesn't know the lawyer. but those memos that the lawyer was forwarding to trump campaign officials, and at

least one fake michigan elector, we've seen what we believed to see those members, or at least some version of it. the new york times last week published two memos offered by mr. chess bro in which he said to a trump campaign lawyer in wisconsin, in november and december 2020. one memo outlined all of the specific steps that fake electors would need to take in each of the states where the trump campaign was planning the scheme, and all of the potential hurdles that fake electors would need to overcome. the memo noted for instance that, quote, michigan is more specific about the location in which electors must meet, which could be a bit awkward. and quote. well, yes indeed! that was a bit awkward, wasn't it? but because we've seen those memos before, these memos -- these emails reported by the detroit news are the first concrete evidence that we have seen of the coordination between the trump campaign and the fake electors on the

ground. here's a trump campaign connected lawyer, putting together all the materials, the fake electors in michigan will need to pull off their part of the scheme, claiming to have sent those materials to one of the fake electors, reporting his efforts up the chain to the trump campaign. and here's the thing, the effort to overturn the election in michigan is still not over. trump supporters held a rally on the steps of the michigan state capital today. demanding that the republican state legislature orders a so-called forensic audit of the 2020 election. that election, if you are keeping score at home, was 15 months ago. today's crowd heard from a state senate candidate who is advocating showing up to polling places armed at the next election. and a candidate for governor who suggested the poll watchers unplug voting machines. another, different republican governor candidate told the crowds today that if elected, he'll arrest and prosecute anyone involved in sending out absentee ballots. one michigan political -- on block voting xin's. another different republican governor candidate told the crowd today that if elected, he'll western prosecute anybody

involved in sending absentee ballots. one michigan political reporter tweeted this -- at the michigan capital seem to be getting considerably smaller, but the conspiracy board is getting bigger. it's not just michigan, of course, in arizona, for example the trump endorse republican candidate of state has just introduced a measure in the state legislature to set aside the results of the 2020 election in certain counties. the measure doesn't look like it will get, far but if he is elected, the secretary of state, he will be in charge of arizona's elections. this guy. it's not just the top level state jobs, the secretary of state, the governor, that stop the steal advocates have their eye on. trump allies are appointing members to election canvassing boards, in michigan. they're winning races to become low double coal voting judges and inspectors in pennsylvania. urging election deniers to apply for jobs in election offices in colorado.

then, there is wisconsin. rolling stone this week called ground zero for the maga effort to steal the next election. quote, republicans convince trump won, are pushing to decertify his 2020 loss and lay the groundwork to overturn the next election, if it doesn't go their way, and quote. republicans in wisconsin have been moving toward a legislative takeover of the states elections, potentially putting the power to decide election outcomes in the hands of the republican legislature. they've also spend hundreds of thousands of dollars in an investigation into the 2020 election run by a guy who says the election was stolen, and who hired former trump officials to be his investigators. and the thing to know about wisconsin is that they have gotten an election coming up one week from today. primaries that could have huge implications for the midterm elections later this year. and the 2024 presidential elections.

because next week's elections are for local offices across the state. and stop the steal election conspiracy as a running in a number of them. now wisconsin has the most decentralized election system of any state. elections are run by nearly 2000 clerks have the local municipal level. which means that local elections in wisconsin can have an outsized impact on how elections are actually run. and with one week to go until those elections, whether wisconsin democrats, i want to say democrats, i mean big d democrats and small d democrats who are in favor of democracy, doing to protect that democracy in the state of wisconsin? joining us now, then when, clark he's the chairman of the wisconsin democratic party. mr. wikler, good to see. you thank you for being with us. we have tried our best to explain the complexities, the differences in wisconsin that some of our viewers may have, from their own state. but this occurrence of these stop the steal advocates at the local level is disconcerting for a number of reasons. >> absolutely, and i'm so glad that you are covering this and i'm glad to be with you.

wisconsin was the tipping point state in 2020. it's a state that handed the presidency to trump, i'm sorry to say, and then to joe biden. and in 2022, we're going to elect our governor who ultimately certifies the states election results in november. if governor reverses a reelected, he will continue his vowed to protect the right to vote to make sure our elections are secure. the republicans running, like rebecca crayfish, has refused to lay out sunny bills that were -- deciding who want. and what happens in november in that all-important governor's race will be seeped by what happens in wisconsin in these local spring elections. you have people like melinda echo who organize the stop the steal protests outside of city hall in green bay, our third largest city in our state, she's running for city council on a slate of conspiracy theorists stopped the steelers

in that city. and the primaries coming up in one week and we are organizing the living daylights out of these local races because they're often decided by just a few votes. if you get on the vote right now and call voters and green bay, you can help turn out the voters to make sure that the stop the steal team doesn't take over that city's city council which has enormous control over the municipal clerk could ministers the election, the budget for election administration, and a dozen other things. >> you make an interesting point here. because i'm thinking, prevents -- looking for candidates who are gonna deal with policing and roads and schools and garbage collection, and things like that. so why would anyone care to vote for someone who's a stop the steal advocate? your point is valid, turnip or local elections is very low, so the ability to win a local election can be with very few voters. >> wisconsin elections, over and over, come down to a harrods breath, four out of the six presidential elections came down to less than one percentage point.

our governor's race in 2018, governor evers was elected with a 1. 1 percentage point margin. that's two or three voters per precinct in our state. if you look at deeper wisconsin, smaller city, kelly rue is one of the fraudulent electors. she's on the city council into pierre. she was just subpoenaed by the january six committee and she is running for reelection. running against her as a candidate who is actually a poll worker who believes in free and fair and secure elections. so these races could shape, you, know whether voters are turned away, whether if someone has an error on their absentee ballot, they get a phone call about it so they can fix it. that can shape statewide outcomes and -- statewide outcomes can shape national outcomes in 2024. if we want to stop the coup in 24, we have to obsess over local elections right now. >> i want to underscore this point because you are saying this cause ezra klein to write not bad for the new york times in which he sided, you if you want to fight for the future of american democracy, he should spend all day talking about the

future of american democracy. these local races that determine the mechanics of american democracy are the ventilation shaft and the republican death star these races get zero national attention. they hardly get local attention. turnout is often lower than 20%. that means that people who actually engage have a superpower. the point you are making tonight, the point that our viewers need to hear, wherever they live in the country, particularly if they live in wisconsin, is that you have that superpower. literally, registering to vote, literally showing up to vote, think attending school board meetings, a standing city council meetings and knowing who's on the ballot, could be the mechanism for saving democracy in this country. >> that's absolutely right. and i would underscore something. no matter where you live in the country, you can join our virtual phone banks. we are calling voters all this weekend, and we'll be calling them through the primaries on february 15th through the local elections on april 5th.

if you go to west indies dot org slash volunteer, you can sign up and volunteers across the country can make those reminder calls. we don't need to persuade a hard-core trumpist to but for pretty much as he candidates. if we just remind people who voted for joe biden in wisconsin in 2020 that there are local elections coming up in the next few weeks, that can make all the difference. and if they vote this spring, they are definitely voting this fall, so you're helping throw out ron johnson and reelecting governor evers. it's such a powerful act, and it's so powerful because so few people on either side to it. when talk radio right now in wisconsin is pushing the slates of candidates, like melinda green bay, who are opposed to our democracy. and we need to organize harder than they. are we have to care about more. whoever works harder in these elections winds. they are not millions of dollars of tv ads, it's just person after person making phone calls when it gets a little warmer, knocking on doors. that work will determine what happens in our democracy at the local level with skills that up to the whole country.

>> i'll pause and leave it there because that is the point that i think people need to understand. ben, thank you for making it so strongly. ben wikler the chairman for the wisconsin democratic party. i appreciated. so democrats have to figure out how to beat the republicans at the local level. and washington, republicans are turning on each other. new reporting tonight -- january six -- the reporter who broke the news joins us right after this. be kinder to yourself and tougher on your cold sores.

mission control, we are go for launch.

um, she's eating the rocket. ♪♪ lunchables! built to be eaten. ♪ ♪ ♪ hey google. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ do i need to pretreat my laundry? nope! with tide pods, you don't need to worry. the pre-treaters are built in. tide pods dissolve even when the water is freezing. nice! if it's got to be clean, it's got to be tide.

yep, it's go time with wireless on the most reliable network. ok, that jump was crazy! but what's crazier? you get unlimited for just 30 bucks. nice! but mine has 5g included. wait! 5g included? yup, even these guys get it. nice ride, by the way. and the icing on the cake? saving up to 400 bucks? exactly. wait, shouldn't you be navigating? xfinity mobile. it's wireless that does it all and saves a lot. down. like a lot, a lot.

he's just tom brady now. hold on. why are they talking about joe burrow? why are they talking about matthew stafford and not me? that's how it goes. that's how it goes. they met up in a parking garage, eventually, you will just be almost as if they were cause one of those greats that people playing deep no longer talk about on a daily throat. on basis. january 5th of last year, the day before the attack on the tom, enjoy retirement. capitol, there was go sit your butt down. a meeting in a random d.c. parking raw, now, in a week or 2, he will between the leaders of two of the most release an instagram post, him radical right wing extremist with the football, him groups in america. throwing in the speculation is the proud boys, going to go all again. and the in other words, although they oath keepers. we've known about this have one to say, he's a lot meeting for a little while now, no one involved has more aaron rodgers than we been particularly think. forthcoming about the >> do you think he can play purpose next year? of that clandestine you think he's capable? meet up, but >> i didn't say he couldn't now we know that the play. fbi is trying to figure it out. reuters, exclusively reporting today that federal do i think he's being selfish by doing this right before the super bowl? investigators are yes. looking into the meeting do i think he's like aaron, between the rodgers and loves the attention two extremist groups, which took place? 24 hours before the he did what he did on draft members of both groups orchestrated day, the day of the draft a coordinated aaron rodgers devoid he did, 3 attack to try and or 4 days before the super bowl overthrow the results of the, tom brady is doing what he election. did. now to stop something like

january six from ever happening again, part of the this is not about you. complicated granular you had 10 moments like this work that has to be done, and everybody let you have your it's to really understand how these kinds of extremist moment. groups operate. this is the first time for because, matthew stafford and joe burrow. until that shoe leather work is done, let them have their moment. it's just kind of like, pulling up >> what if he just decided i weeds, more and more made a mistake for the first threats for more and more extremist groups time in my like, i jump the will keep popping up. you have to dig gun. deeper. you have to pull the whole my hand got force by espn. system up by the route. and like he said, i try to make in the best possible decision i tandem with this new line of inquiry by the fbi, it can in the moment, which i did seems there is some last week. other team of well that was the best investigators that are possible decision at that doing just that. moment when they had forced my reporter ben hand. collins, here at nbc news is >> skip, all day, they did something of an extremist expert. he operates in among those not force your hand. weeds and he's out with fresh so buy them leaking reporting, about how information by force you to investigators in the january six investigation in retire, they said you are congress are trying to piece thinking about retirement, so together the origin you had already decided what stories of those two extremist you are going to do. groups, in the hopes that it will shed the light on the capitol someone in your circle like riot. that information to them. they did not force your hand. quote, the committee's investigators are zeroing just like you were keeping in on events attended by members of secrets for the entirety of the the proud boys season that you are and oath keepers, in contemplating, you could not 2020. have kept a secret for other those events include covid lockdown post month or 2?

tests, >> maybe he slept on it for 2 or 3 nights and realized i counterprotests, to messed this up. some racial demonstrations, armed protest i don't want to stop, i want activity, focused to play. on state capitals i need to send the message out across the u.s., while everybody is on high and stop the steal rallies, alert, because it's super bowl that occurred prior to week, hey i'm in business, i january 6th. the investigators will come in play. >> i don't know if anybody has ever sold something in that had decide to the extent domestic stretch -- to teams. the red team is regrets about selling it, but concentrating on the events that i have. took place on january 6th. and then there's you know, you retire, is this the right decision? a whole separate team, the purple team, looking then. into how these >> but you said you had no 2nd anti-democracy thoughts. factions form, in the months before >> once i got past, but skip, january 6th, and how they evolved in the year when i made the decision to since. the goal behind this is pretty straightforward. quote, the goal, according to several of the investigators, who spoke with nbc news, is to determine whether these earlier events were proving grounds. opportunities to network, or places to encourage one another to cross red lines into future violence. joining us now is nbc senior reporter, ben collins, who covers disinformation and

scream-ism. he both this new report today. my friend, it's good to see you. thank you for being with. us ben, what kind of things are they looking for that will demonstrate what you report in your reporting? that they're looking to see what they were doing at these things, and the connections that the january 6th. >> yeah, they're looking for hard and fast connections between groups like the oath keepers and the proud boys, and qanon conspiracy theorists, that happened over the last year, before the january 6th riot. that includes things like those state capital protests, in oregon and michigan, that kind of pre sage what happened on january 6th. you know, if you think about the one for michigan that ended in the idea that they were going to take the governor, it was a similarly violent rhetorical protest. so they're looking for hard and fast connections. they're also looking for ideological similarities between some of these groups.

the proud boys and qanon people, they don't necessarily have a lot in common. a lot of proud boys look down on to a non-people. it's still kind of unclear how they came to the same conclusion, that january six, they all had to storm the capital, and they all had to do -- fight back for president trump. some >> of these people have been charged in the litany of charges that a lot of the administrators face. some of them has been -- but not a lot of them are cooperating. is there is some idea that they can get people like you would in the mob, get people who are lower down who don't have the resources or the gumption to hold out to start telling authorities what's behind some of these organizations? >> of course. and some are cooperating, by the way. some roads who is a member of the oath keepers, he dialed into a video conference. he was indicted by feds, but he's still dialed into a video conference for the january six committee. and he did completely take the

fifth he answered some questions. and there's a lot of trees to shake here. you're going to see a lot of that over time. and they also have both the feds and the january six committee, they have data and it has nothing to do with people's testimonies, it has to do with people wear on the day, and the days before, social media posts, things like that. so they are going to get to the bottom of this, it seems like. it's just gonna take a while. >> you're right, this was actually published in welfare, but it's about the fact that the proud boys role on january six was more affirmative than the oath keepers and more violent and momentous. just one among the 21 accused oath keeper conspirators have been charged with assaulting a police officer, where many of the proud boys have been. where is their connection, the proud boys and the oath keepers? >> they are kind of two disparate ideas. the oath keepers were created shortly after barack obama took office. to keep an oath to defend the role of the united states. that's one thing. the proud boys were created by the trump era. they're kind of like milton street gang basically that was created to fight back against what they believed to be

leftist violence in the streets. that's why they were constantly in these racial justice protests trying to stir up more agitation. the proud boys are inherently more violent group. it takes getting into physical fight to be initiated as a high level problem. whereas the oath keepers were not planning a much larger thing. they largely feel with people her ex military, ex police. they had a plan. these people where we earpieces and talk to each other in the day. they had this idea for q r if squads which are basically bring ammo in, bring out the weapons and later in the day that they start at the hotel room. so one was -- the proud boys are basically like a street gang wanting to fight on command. the oath keepers are kind of

like a military. those are the two big differences there. >> one of the things in your piece that was interesting as you talk about the revelation of details from the house committee's investigation comes as federal law enforcement agencies remain on alert for domestic terrorism. the department of homeland security issued an advisory monday saying the u.s. remains in a heightened threat environment field by several factors including an online environment fill with false or misleading narratives and conspiracy theories and other forms of miss, diss, and mullin formation. introduced or amplified by foreign and domestic threat actors. so there's a bigger piece to this which you have been studying for years which is enveloping this current matter. >> yeah, i talked to some people on the committee, some investigators of the committee on this, and they are similarly worried about this. whatever report they wind up producing, it would be like a mother report or warren commission at the end of the day. but they are really worried about this anti elite sentiment

that is the pushed by these groups that used to be pretty separate. proud boys, the oath keepers, qanon people, the anti vax community, they're all kind of coalescing. all of them seem to think there's a new world order out to get them. they all seem to think that there is this hand above the united states government that is pushing people down. this is a, you know, the parallels of history in this are very scary. this is the stuff that you get before very grim times in history. deeply antisemitic, deeply racist, that's how you get to this moment. but all of them are coalescing around this. you see this in europe with the anti vax protests over there, they're a little more violent than the ones that have been here. you see that in canada with the trucker convoy right now. this is a global movement of, you know, i think they wanted to be called populism. but it's a global movement of anti elitism, anti authoritarianism -- sorry, anti authority in

general. anti -- authoritarianism. it's basically anarchy. and that's what they are rooting for so they can revenge a system that works better for them. >> it is not easily discounted because of the way it's spreading around the world. you can't now just sort of shove it into a corner and ignore it. and i appreciate the reporting you do this. ben collins is a senior reporter for nbc news. we always appreciate your time my friend. coming up next, the growing spin and republican party about january six and what voters are gonna make about it come election day. we will be right back. wahoooo! (vo) you can be well-groomed. or even well-spoken. (man) ooooooo. (vo) but there's just something about being well-adventured. (vo) adventure has a new look. discover more in the all-new subaru forester wilderness. love. it's what makes subaru, subaru. one of my favorite supplements is qunol turmeric. turmeric helps with healthy joints discover more in the all-new subaru forester wilderness. and inflammation support. unlike regular turmeric supplements

qunol's superior absorption helps me get the full benefits of turmeric. the brand i trust is qunol. age is just a number. and mine's unlisted. try boost® high protein with 20 grams of protein for muscle health. versus 16 grams in ensure high protein. boost® high protein also has key nutrients for immune support. boost® high protein. it's 5:00 a.m., and i feel like i can do anything. we've been coming here, since 1868. there's a lot of cushy desk jobs out there, but this is my happy place. there are millions of ways to make the most of your land. learn more at deere.com mission control, we are go for launch. there are millions of ways to makeum, she's eatingr land. the rocket.

♪♪ lunchables! built to be eaten. if you have type 2 diabetes or high blood pressure... ...you're a target for... ...chronic kidney disease. you can already have it and not know it. if you have chronic kidney disease... ...your kidney health... ...could depend on what you do today. ♪far-xi-ga♪ farxiga is a pill that works... ...in the kidneys to help slow the progression of chronic kidney disease. farxiga can cause... ...serious side effects including dehydration,... ...urinary tract or genital yeast infections... ...in women and men,... ...and low blood sugar. ketoacidosis is a serious side effect... ...that may lead to death. a rare, life-threatening bacterial infection... ...in the skin of the perineum could occur. stop taking farxiga and call your doctor right away... ...if you have symptoms of this bacterial infection,... ...an allergic reaction,... ...or ketoacidosis. and don't take it if you are on dialysis. take aim... ...at chronic kidney disease by talking to your doctor...

...and asking about farxiga. if you can't afford your medication,... ...astrazeneca may be able to help. ♪far-xi-ga♪ realtor.com's draw a map feature helped us find what we wanted, where we wanted. so we could finally buy our first "big boi house." big boi house. big boi foyer! big boi marble. big boi quartz. word? realtor.com to each their home. i had no idea how much i wamy case was worth. c word? call the barnes firm to find out what your case could be worth. we will help get you the best result possible. ♪ call one eight hundred, eight million ♪

when a truck hit my car, ♪the insurance companyed, wasn't fair. eight million ♪ i didid't t kn whahatmy c caswa, so i called the barnes firm. i'm rich barnes. it's hard for people to k how much their accident case is worth.h barnes. it's been five days since the t ouour juryry aorneneys hehelpou national republican party officially condemned the january 6th mob attack on the capitol, calling those attacks, "legitimate political discourse" while censuring two of its members for having the temerity to get to the bottom of what actually happened that day by joining the january 6th committee. now we are actually starting to see some republican senators offer some qualified pushback. >> i think the rnc is out of its frame, quite honestly. >> i think all of us want to talk about forward and

not backward. >> we've got issues that we should be focusing on besides censuring two members of congress because they have a different opinion. >> they said in the resolution that they wanted republicans to be unified. that was not a unifying action. >> anything that my party does that comes across as being stupid is not going to help us. >> each of those republican senators showed some willingness to distance themselves from what is now the official position of their own party. that itself is actually remarkable thinking these days. it's a message being embraced by the top senate republicans. moments after leaving his weekly meeting with republican senators today, mitch mcconnell made his feelings clear to reporters. >> let me give you my view of what happened on january 6th. we are here. we are here. we saw what happened. it was a violent insurrection. a violent insurrection with the purpose of trying to prevent the peaceful transfer of power,

after a legitimately certified election, from one administration to the next. that is what it was. and the issue is whether or not the rnc should be singling out members of our party who may have different views from the majority. that is not the job of the rnc. >> a person who spoke to mcconnell tells "the washington post" tonight that the republican leader is, frustrated that with the party was focused on "the only liability we have", when he believes republicans are otherwise well positioned to win the november midterms. but not all republicans agree that the party's official downplaying of january 6th is in fact a political liability. an rnc spokesperson tells "the post", "outside of the d. c. bubble, our grassroots are very supportive of the decision to hold cheney and kinzinger accountable." that statement was backed by missouri senator josh hawley, who made clear he would never apologize for

objecting to biden's 2020 win. he told reporters today, "listen, whatever you think about the rnc vote, it reflects the view of most republican voters." joining us now to discuss this is former rnc chairman michael steele. michael, it is good to see you my friend. i need you for a fact check tonight. because on one side, we are kind of excited that a few republican senators said the most obvious thing they could say. that you cannot call what happened on january 6th legitimate protest. nobody is going too far out on a limb. in fact, it was interesting to see mitch mcconnell probably going further than most. but they're not going too far. this is the most obvious thing you could say as a republican, that this was an insurrection. >> yeah. look, i think a lot of folks are sitting here and saying, thank you, thank you for acknowledging what the rest of

the country acknowledged a year ago. and i get it. i understand a lot of the politics and everything. but this is beyond the politics, ali. and i think a lot of us appreciate mitch and on republican senators now coming out and stating the obvious. how much damage has been done? how much further have we allowed this -- to continue inside the party? if these comments and this acknowledgment had been made over the past seven or eight months, do you have a moment like you had with the rest of the clips showing the craziness of josh hawley saying, oh, our base, this is what we want. well, our base wouldn't be this base if the leadership acknowledge the facts and truth at the very beginning, after the election. >> so, let me ask

you -- what is the trigger, then, for mcconnell to do this? because that's as forceful as he has been about this issue. maybe there is not a ton of debate going on in the republican party. but there is one around whether embracing the january 6th rioters is a liability or advantage come november. some, maybe mitch mcconnell himself, but someone has decided it is a liability. >> it is a liability and it is probably reflected in their internal polling. mitch is nothing if not calculating. mitch is nothing if not dialed in. and so while josh hawley thinks, yes, this is where the republican base is, it's a small portion of the republican base that buys into what the rnc did, relevant to the potential loss come this november. why is that important? because yeah, you still need republicans to turn out and vote. you still need them to support the candidates. and you don't want to continue to add fuel to that fire. so the internal conversation in mcconnell's world is focused on how we navigate the space, clear the lane and the debris of january 6th and stay focused on talking about biden, talking about the economy etc. this

takes away from that in a major way. and to the broader question about this being the only thing that republicans have as a problem going into november -- no, the problems are a lot bigger than just this one issue. so, there are a lot of other pieces that come together that mcconnell is looking at that now put him in a position to stand very clearly in opposition to donald trump. and in opposition to the trump wing of the party. >> it's interesting you mention the polling that mcconnell may be relying on. i want to show you a new pew research poll, between the 10th and the 17th, asking americans whether they think trump bears a lot of responsibility for january 6th. one year ago, right after january 6th, 52% of americans thought he wore a lot of responsibility. and i would've thought that, with everything we learned, it would have been greater. but according to pew,

it has gone down. fewer americans think trump bears a lot of responsibility for january 6th. what do you make of a poll like this? >> that is where leadership comes in. you beat the drum, you create the confusion, you depress the narrative. yeah, people tune out. they then begin to see everything to a political lens. and this is the risk, ali, that i think the biden administration and the january 6th commission have to deal with. the question of how to deal with pulling out of that purely political space. and get the american people to focus on

what we had happen. it was real, it was threatening to our democracy and now people need to account for it. and that is the part that, over the next few months, is going to be the challenge. that is why those numbers show that number at 43% versus the 52% that you showed. because of the lack of emphasis of just how important this is. >> why is the rnc out in front of this thing? i mean, you are a former rnc chair. why did they get themselves into a

position where they would be perhaps not thinking they would be having this discussion? >> this is all what trump wanted. this is all about what trump wanted. the bosses from my great state of maryland, bless us, they go traipsing down to mar-a-lago saying, oh, there was no conversation to beat trump. but yeah, trump is still sitting there, orchestrating and dictating the terms. bossie is one of his acolytes and there are trump fingerprints over and the chairwoman is a a reality is that we hav two ins with all of the trump acolytes who have elected is beg trust me, the mcconnells of the world and others will start t feel that pull. that is why some members are retiring. because they do not want to be caught in this any longer. it is going to be a real tug of war between now and november, given also, ali, the fact that you have republicans like myself and others who are going to make sure, darn sure, that this pull happens. because we want this party to move off of the stupid and back into a position where can govern the country and not run it into the ground by a pending its democracy. >> michael, i am always much smarter for listening you, thank you for joining us, my friend. >> thank you. >> former rnc chairman michael steele there. much more tonight, stay with us. th us. (music)

♪ so i think to myself ♪ ♪ oh what a wonderful world ♪ one of my favorite supplements is qunol turmeric. turmeric helps with healthy joints and inflammation support. unlike regular turmeric supplements qunol's superior absorption helps me get the full benefits of turmeric. the brand i trust is qunol. it's time for the ultimate sleep number event on the sleep number 360 smart bed. what if i sleep hot? ...or cold? no problem, the sleep number 360 smart bed is temperature balancing so you both sleep just right. and it senses your movements and automatically adjusts to keep you both effortlessly comfortable. so, you can really promise better sleep? yes! you'll know exactly how well you slept, night after night. we take care of the science. all you have to do is sleep. and now, during the ultimate sleep number event, save 50% on the sleep number 360 limited edition smart bed. plus, 0% interest for 24 months on all smart beds. only for a limited time

when our daughter and her kids moved in with us...

our bargain detergent couldn't keep up. turns out it's mostly water. so, we switched back to tide. one wash, stains are gone. [daughter] slurping don't pay for water. pay for clean. it's got to be tide. we just moved. so there's millions of - dahlias in bloom. over nine acres. when we started, we grew a quarter of an acre. now i'm taking on new projects on the regular. there are millions of ways to make the most of your land. learn more at deere.com one of the worst things about a cold sore there are millions of ways to make the most of your land. is how it can make you feel. but, when used at the first sign, abreva can get you back to being you in just 2 and a half days. be kinder to yourself and tougher on your cold sores. (judith) in this market, you'll find fisher investments is

different than other money managers. (other money manager) different how? don't you just ride the wave? (judith) no - we actively manage client portfolios based on our forward-looking views of the market. (other money manager) but you still sell investments that generate high commissions, right? (judith) no, we don't sell commission products. we're a fiduciary, obligated to act in our client's best interest. (other money manager) so when do you make more money? only when your clients make more money? (judith) yep, we do better when our clients do better. at fisher investments we're clearly different. [♪♪] if you have diabetes, it's important to have confidence in the nutritional drink you choose. try boost glucose control®. it's clinically shown to help manage blood sugar levels and contains high quality protein to help manage hunger and support muscle health. try boost® today. paul lawrence done bar senior high school invited. president kamala harris's husband, the second general don have cough to visit for black history month commemorations today. the d. c. high school was named

after the noted poet that was founded in 1970 as the nation's first public high school for african american students. dunn bar high has very many notable alumni including eleanor holmes norton. this is her picture from the school's 1955 yearbook. so was a funny place to hold an event to celebrate black history month. but the event was cut short. he was only there for five minutes before his security detail told him he had to go. photographers in the room called these images of the secret service rushing him to safety over what the vice president's office called a, quote, security threat. students and faculty were also told to evacuate the building. we later learned that the security threat of the school was a bomb threat. the secret service says it does not believe this bomb threat was linked to the second gentleman's visit. and a d. c. police spokesperson says the fbi does not believe that this threat right now is linked to several threats to hbcus. but this claim came hours after classes were disrupted at spelman college, a famous

historically black university in atlanta after another bomb threat to that school. the campus was on lockdown for four hours as police did a thorough sweep of the campus. this is the third time this year that spellman has faced a bomb threat. and it follows a disturbing pattern last week at the start of black history month. black bomb threats on the campuses of at least 17 historically black colleges that force administrators to cancel classes and lockdown buildings. the fbi says that it's identified six juveniles as persons of interest in these threats and is investigating them as racially or ethnically motivated violent extremism and hate crimes. one of the collars to one of the schools claim to have ties to a new nazi group. and it's against this backdrop that the -- digital roundtable with several hbcu presidents and an official with the department of education about the impact that these threats are having and

how to move forward. joining us now is laura lumped in, a reporter for the washington post who has been following the threats against hbcu, she attended the roundtable today. thank you for making time for being with us tonight. >> we thanks for having me. >> what happens at a roundtable like this, other than people conveying the fact that this is bad, it's disruptive, it's frightening, it's probably emotionally di the j yo >> what happens at a roundtable like this, other than people conveying the fact that this is bad, it's disruptive, it's frightening, it's probably emotionally disturbing for the students and the faculty? was there any sense of a plan or support that goes out to these hbcus to deal with this? >> right, so, like you said, a lot of these we people were coming together and talk about how the campuses have been over the last couple days. it's a very scary time, at this point, they haven't found any bumps on these campuses. but just a threat can really rattle a campus. but at this point, you, know

the department of education, dr. michelle up phuket was, there the department offered support. the fbi has put the investigation at the top of their priority list. so there's just a lot of talk about public safety and how the government, state, law enforcement is gonna be. there we also heard from the university presidents being patient, obviously, but also want to get to the bottom of this and figure out who is making these threats and remedy the situation as quickly as possible. >> one or two you can't discount it, it's now at 17. we don't know if they're copycats or if it's the same people. are there any good working theories right now? >> well, it's hard to speculate at this point. you know we know the fbi is investigating this as a hate crime. so clearly, there is reason to believe that these are racially motivated threats. and i think it's clear based on what the fbi said that these colors --

obviously institutions that are being threatened, these are all historically black universities. and they thought these threats on -- the first day of black history month, a time when students are celebrating their history and places of hedgehog higher education, a bomb threat is definitely not a great place to start. >> of course, the strain that it puts on the students which, you are reporting and you heard the university presidents talking about. what kind of resources are available to students who are worried about going to universities where they are getting bumped threats going? >> we mental health is a very big part of it. i think was on morgan state university, and baltimore, students -- imagine being a college student right now, this pandemic, your ready kind of anxious about what's going on and are school is getting threats.

so officials are often will [inaudible] suicide a day off, the president called it a mental health day for people to be fresh and take some time, to take a break honestly. those -- counselors are available to students and we see a lot of these officials that are repeating over and over, we're here for you we support, you let us know if you need our help. so i think people are kind of being lenient and trying to be understanding because of everything that's going on right now. >> that's already enough stress being a student in this country without having to be worried about bombs going off. laura lumpkin is covering issues at local universities and colleges. we appreciate your time tonight. coming, up he's been out of office for a year now, all of the former presidents grifters seem to keep popping up again. we'll have more on that ahead.

...so i can du more of the things i love. dupixent is not for sudden breathing problems. it's an add-on-treatment for specific types of moderate-to-severe asthma that can improve lung function for better breathing in as little as two weeks. and can reduce, or even eliminate, oral steroids. and here's something important. dupixent can cause serious allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis. get help right away if you have rash, shortness of breath, chest pain, tingling or numbness in your limbs. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection, and don't change or stop your asthma treatments, including steroids, without talking to your doctor. are you ready to du more with less asthma? just ask your asthma specialist about dupixent. ♪ ♪ ♪ hey google.

♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ it's 5:00 a.m., and i feel like i can do anything. we've been coming here, since 1868. there's a lot of cushy desk jobs out there, but this is my happy place. there are millions of ways to make the most of your land. learn more at deere.com mission control, we are go for launch. there are millions of ways to makeum, she's eatingr land. the rocket. ♪♪ lunchables! built to be eaten. one of my favorite supplements is qunol turmeric. turmeric helps with healthy joints and inflammation support. unlike regular turmeric supplements qunol's superior absorption helps me get the full benefits of turmeric.

the brand i trust is qunol. one more thing before we go,

let's call it a trip down memory lane. here is it you know that trump campaign manager, paul manafort, received 11 days after the 2016 election, from the sixth a go banker. subject, quote, stephen am call, candidate for sack army. the attachment says, perspective roles in the trump administration in rank order. that is roles as in job functions and not the things in which i put my chicken salad. he lets them, one, secretary of the army, two, deputy secretary of treasury, three, secretary of commerce. that email about stephen cult by the way, was by steven

called, the ceo of a midwestern bank called the federal savings bank. and that was not any ordinary pitch email from someone trying to curry favor with the incoming administration. it wasn't fact a bribe. you see, in july of 2016, paul manafort who was at the time trump's campaign manager, came to the bank seeking a multimillion dollar loan. the one glaring problem was that manafort had a lot of red flags on his financials. he was deep in debt, he had multiple was facing foreclosure. and he needed money, he needed it fast. so he struck a deal. calk ignored the red flags, and ended up securing manafort for the loans. $16 million. calk was appointed to the trump campaign's economic advisory campaign adviser. well this time calk approved it

and shortly thereafter, sent manafort a list of administration jobs that he wanted. manafort did and up getting calk and interviewed him a trump tower, but calk never got the job. he did eventually get indicted for that scheme by federal prosecutors in new york city. he was convicted in july of financial institution bribery and conspiracy, and yesterday, nearly six years after the start of that bribery scheme, calk was finally sentenced. the department of justice aptly puts the news and it's headline announcing the news, quote, bank ceo stephen em cobb sentenced to one year and one day for corruptly soliciting a presidential administration position in exchange for approving 16 million and loans. in addition to spending 366 days in prison, calk must pay one point $2 million in fines, complete community service, and

undergo two years of supervised release. as for manafort, he too was convicted of multiple felonies and other schemes, including bank fraud and filing false tax returns. but he is free. of course, because donald trump pardoned him right before he left office. but nice work if you can get it. that does it for us tonight, we'll see you again tomorrow. now it's time for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. that's not our world, we just have to keep on working, we can't just do that stuff and get away with. it their new definition of what they call legitimate political discourse. i really want to hear which steve schmidt has to say about that. he gets to work with those people, not the same people who are there now, but a lot of them. so, i'm really eager for his reactions. thank you, ali. sometimes in