mccarthy looks to be training for the summer games as he is speed walking away from questions. >> just do it. >> yeah. >> just do it. >> about the fallout of the attack on the capitol. >> just do it. >> let's take a look at that again. ♪♪ >> it's exciting. there's that music. china this year. willie, i'm not sure where the summer olympics will be two years from now, probably north korea. i don't know. >> what is he thinking? >> i'm expecting to see steve there with his -- >> it's kevin. >> kevin with his speed walking. impressive. breathlessly saying, "i don't do interviews in the hall." after doing interviews in the hall for 20 years.

>> yeah. by the way, the summer olympics '24, paris, my friend. i will see you there. >> he'll love it. he'll be ready. >> that's a change, isn't it? >> exactly. >> i mean, where else could they go next? you have north korea. then, i mean, i don't know, hell? seriously. >> joe. >> look where the world cups have been held and where the winter olympics have been held. every, like, winter olympics or summer olympics, it's like, great, after this olympics, someone is probably going to invade another european country. come on. paris, yes. >> versailles, it'll be beautiful. >> we have paris. we have l.a. on the horizon. we have some australia mixed in there. >> okay. >> we're getting back to the good stuff here. >> getting back to the good stuff. >> so what i'm thinking in paris and l.a., i don't know. i don't know. i'm just guessing. i'm projecting.

i don't know these things. i'm not a dietitian. but perhaps they'll actually feed olympic athletes in paris and l.a., instead of making them go on these bone-crushing events and they're, like, oliver. remember little oliver? want some portage. >> it is kind of a serious story. >> these people, it's like oliver twist. they're not feeding 'em. how do you have -- hey, we want an olympics, but we're not going to feed your athletes. >> yeah. the chinese government tried to control the messaging out of these olympics, but athletes have instagram. they're posting pictures, some who are in quarantine because they've had a close contact or tested positive. the food they're getting is truly sub middle school cafeteria food. team usa, thank goodness, is bringing their own food. >> usa. >> yeah. >> it's been a bumpy road.

>> willie, let me check really quickly, i was not awakened in the middle of the night. >> i cry every day. >> i cry every day. mika's upcoming biography, also the headline. >> stop it. >> willie, i didn't get a great news flash last night from the "new york post." >> sorry about that. >> no giraffes, like, you know, commandeering a train or anything like that. what do we have in the "post" today? what's the cover? >> we have the late edition because we're here in the city. this is hot off, just dumped outside on 50th street, i believe. here's our lead story this morning in the "new york post." we have a hamburglar on the loose, joe. >> oh no. >> shoplifter walking out of a grocery store with ten steaks and no one stops him. it's our lead story. trader joes in the east village. a "new york post" photographer happened to be there, watched this guy grab ten steaks and

walk out calmly. it is on video, as well. the "new york post" is on it. >> explain something to me. i don't understand this. maybe you and lemire can explain this, and i'm being honest, i don't get it. you know, we were in new york city off and on for the better part of 10, 15 years. pre 2020. still go up there, but we're not l living in the city. and you tell me stories that every new yorker tells me. people just walking in and stealing stuff. >> yeah. brazenly. >> i'm sorry. i don't get that. it's just like the smash and grabs on the west coast. i don't get it. i just don't understand. this is basic stuff. how does this happen in an orderly -- what's supposed to be an orderly society? this would have never happened in new york a couple of years ago, pre-covid. when are we going to return to

normalcy, where when you go into a store, if you try to shoplift, somebody is going to stop you at the door and you're going to get arrested? >> yeah. >> i don't mean to be basic here. this is just -- this is insanity. >> well, it's these kind of crimes, like the one the "new york post" has on its cover today, and we've seen them with our eyes, i'm sure, all three of us here, being in new york, that eric adams campaigned, in part, on stopping. we have to bring order back to our city. we can't have this kindover kind of thing happening in a society. rev, you've probably seen it, too. i go into my drugstore, cvs, whatever, and almost everything is locked now. used to be high-value items were locked. but the toothpaste is locked. everything is locked. it is true, people are walking in and out with it. >> no doubt about it. i mean, you go to a local pharmacy, duane reade or rite aid, any of them, and you have to get someone to help assist you. i mean, they have the little

button there. you hit the buzzer, and the guy comes over and unlocks your toothpaste. i mean, we're talking about basic stuff here. i'm like, when -- what did i miss that we now have to lock up toothpaste? >> yeah. >> i'm just curious, rev, quickly. eric adams said he is going to do his best to fix this. i mean, he has a governor who is saying, well, i don't know that we want to give the judges any power to make decisions on whether they've seen the same bad guy in front of them, like, 12 times in the past week. then you have a d.a. -- i know you talk to the d.a. -- the d.a. is going, oh, we don't want to punish anybody unless it is, like, really bad. yeah, you can steal whatever you want to steal and, yeah, we won't do any jail time. then you've got, you know, a woke city council. i'm just curious, is eric adams going to be able to do anything while he is obviously surrounded by elected officials who want

new york to remain chaotic? >> well, i think he's got a challenge there. there is debate in the criminal justice system. there are those that are concerned, including me, about overloading the system and the jails with petty crime. but at the same time, you cannot have a culture where people are just, at random, robbing and stealing and it's out of control. it's put on the front page of newspapers which only encourages others to do it. in fairness to eric, he's only been mayor five weeks. >> yeah. >> but even as a fan of him, eric, they're locking up my toothpaste. >> come on, baby. >> i'll say that, you know, first, the hamburglar cover on the "new york post" makes me hungry. i've been up a few hours now. this points to a larger issue though. there is a sense that things aren't quite right. the city is out of control. crime is up in 72 of the 77 nypd precincts. it's serious stuff as well as

these minor things. obviously because of the pandemic and some of the fiscal impacts of it, we're seeing there's a lot of empty spaces in new york right now, a lot of offices where people haven't come back yet. homelessness is up and more visible on the streets. of course, there's the theory of policing, where the people committing small crimes, even if it is trader joes, stealing hamburgers or toothpaste out of a cvs, are the same folks who eventually do larger, more serious, more deadly and violent crimes. so this is an early crisis for a mayor who has had his hands full. a breakneck first five weeks for eric adams. >> yeah. this isn't about eric adams. this is just about a culture over the past several years, and it's not just in new york city. it is in every city. >> there are conflicting factors. >> there are a lot of -- >> it's not just politics. >> -- things going on. i will say this again, it won't be popular, but people decided they were going to do this great

criminal justice reform movement and they were going to launch it when crime rates were at a 50-year low. crime rates were at a 50-year low, right? so there was a false sense of security. they overreached. if you don't believe they didn't overreach, you just look outside your door in new york city or any other major city. two things can be true at once. we can have criminal justice reform, a fairer criminal justice system. one that doesn't have one system of punishment for white people, one system of punishment for black people, one system of punishment for hispanics. you know, one system of punishment for the rich. we can do that, but, michael steele, we have to protect our streets too. >> michael steele is with us. >> if we don't protect our streets, if we don't make sure that people can go into stores

without having crime swirling all around them, hey, let's face it, it's not going to be people like you and me that bear the brunt of the crime wave. it's going to be the truly disadvantaged, the people in neighborhoods where cops don't go as often. that's what happens. you know, people sitting here going, oh, joe, he is bitching about crime waves. i'm not bitching about it for myself. i'm worried about the people who voted for eric adams. there is a reason why eric adams, as a democrat, won brooklyn, won the bronx, won, you know, even staten island, won queens. there's a reason he won the democratic primaries there. because they want their streets cleaned up. they want it cleaned up. so i just -- again, what's a governor doing? what's the governor of new york doing, not giving eric adams what he needs and not giving judges the authority to look at

somebody who has been in front of them repeated times and at least giving them discretion on who gets to walk back out on the streets and commit more crimes and who actually needs to go to jail? >> well, presumably, the judges had that discretion. what the governor is responding to is the fact that those judges put those criminals behind bars. to jonathan's point made earlier, yeah, they were more petty crimes in many cases. you know, the mayor finds himself caught between two different views of the criminal justice system. do we reform it in a way, as you described it, joe, or do we reform it in a way that we try to appease special interests that are sort of buffeting around this subject matter, trying to put pressure on the mayor, the governor, and others to do it a certain way? at the end of the day, the people of new york are going to look to the mayor to solve the problem. he's got to figure out how he threads that needle so that you

don't over police in a way that you go back to what we saw in the '90s and the early 2000s, when, yeah, you had cops on the corner but they were stopping everybody. every brother on the corner was getting stopped. you also don't want to continue to allow this escalation to go unabated. and so with the mayor, granted, it's been five weeks, but the mayor's got to get in the governor's ear, to your point, to allow him the authority to move the pieces around in a way that, as a former police officer, he would know how to do, that would give some relief to the citizens in terms of their concerns about where this is going, and reinforce within the criminal justice system the authority of the judges and the police to do their jobs. that's not going to be easy if the governor continues to insist she wants to soft pedal on crime because she's afraid of a wokeness that, right now, is

allowing this crime to run amuck. >> because she has a democratic primary coming up. >> because she has a democratic primary coming up. >> people need to start protecting citizens and worry about, again, the most disadvantaged and those people that are on the front lines of these crime waves, and stop playing to others, special interests who they think are going to help them win democratic primaries. >> great conversation. not our lead story, but glad we had it. also with us this morning, columnist and associate editor of the "washington post," david ignatius. we have a lot to get to this morning, and we'll start with politics. this is pretty much the big story of the day. senate minority leader mitch mcconnell added his voice to the number of republicans criticizing the rnc following a censure vote against republicans liz cheney and adam kinzinger.

here's some of what he said yesterday. >> i'll give my view of what happened january 6th. we're all here. we saw what happened. it was a violent insurrection. the purpose, trying to prevent the peaceful transfer of power after a legitimately certified election. with regard to the suggestion that the rnc should be in the business of picking and choosing republicans who ought to be supported, traditionally, the view of the national party committees is that we support all members of our party, regardless of their positions on some issues. the issue is whether or not the rnc should be singling out the members with different views of the majority. that's not the job of the rnc. >> that would be putting the hammer down. joe, there's so many different lines to this. there was a message to the rnc. a much bigger message that i

think some could see this as a turning point. >> the thing is, people haven't wanted to hear mitch mcconnell since january 6th. he voted against impeachment. he voted against the january 6th committee. he is getting in the way of voting rights. so there are a lot of issues that mitch mcconnell detractors, a lot of issues that they're going to bring up every time he says something here. let's be clear, david ignatius, since january 6th, mcconnell has been clear and unambiguous. this was a volent insurrection. the people who committed crime should be thrown in jail. donald trump tried to stop a peaceful transition of power. he is a threat to democracy. mcconnell has said it time and time again. for people that were locked in the bunker, the most liberal of

liberals on january 6th, they said, if it weren't for mitch mcconnell, the voting would not have resumed on january 6th. he was enraged. he took it personally. others wanted to go home and said, we'll do it tomorrow. mcconnell basically said, over my dead body. the rioters aren't going to get their way. for people out there that can't handle two truths, you know, in the same space, that's fine. that's your problem. work on it. maybe do some dbt. david ignatius, on the issue of january 6th, mitch mcconnell, the most powerful republican in washington, d.c., far more powerful than these back benchers who were shock jocks and do rude, awful things every day, mcconnell could not be any more clear. by the way, donald trump's vice president this past weekend could not have been any clearer. that's two in a week.

i would say, something may be happening in the republican establishment finally. >> something just may be happening. it is awfully tough, based on the limited evidence, to know whether trump's hold over the core of the party is broken. as you say, mcconnell has disliked trump, hated trump, since before january 6th. he's been consistent in his statements about it. pence has been pretty solid in expressing his indignation about what happened. but those two and a few others have not been able to break through the broad mass of the party. the question i have is whether something really is changing in the fundamentals. are trump's poll numbers beginning to go down? is the mass of evidence that the house committee investigating this is gathering really becoming so significant that p

republicans know they've got to speak out and begin to change their alignment? for me, the question is whether mitch mcconnell is trying to save a party that still exists. is there a mainstream republican party left that mitch mcconnell can speak to? he's saying the same things he's said, but who is he saying them to? all we can do is watch and see what other republicans, who are a little more toward trump, what they have to say. >> willie, i think david is on to something here. i think there's mounting evidence that's being accumulated by the january 6th committee. i think these senators who have to run statewide understand that. they know the truth is going to come out, as the bible says. what is whispered now is going to be shouted from the mountaintops. and when that happens, when the truth comes out, when the timeline comes out, when all of america knows that donald trump was looking at police officers getting their brains bashed in by trump flags, and he was

rewinding the videotape to watch the most violent parts gleefully and just sat there while his closest allies, friends, everybody else, they were begging him to call off the rioters because someone might be killed, trump did nothing. i think there's a reason. mitch has been consistent. you're hearing lindsey graham and other republicans speak out. even the guy from missouri with the really thin bone structure. >> josh hawley. >> yeah, even josh hawley is saying the january 6th people need to go to jail if they were violent, committed crimes that day. that's, like, you know -- that suggests what david is saying. they're either seeing polls or they're knowing that truth is going to come out from this january 6th commission, and they want to be on the right side of history finally. >> yeah, we're seeing leadership from senator mcconnell, as you say. we heard it from former vice

president pence over the weekend as well. shouldn't be a courageous act to describe exactly what happened on january 6th as what happened on january 6th. but it is in this republican party. there is still, as you say, joe, a portion of the party that's holding out or willing to look the other way. mcconnell's comments, a marked contrast from house minority leader kevin mccarthy who has been dodging the questions, literally yesterday, when he was pursued through the halls by abc congressional reporter rachel scott. >> can i ask you about the -- >> it's not good to be doing -- >> according to scott, mccarthy did answer a question from her in a hallway earlier that day. >> do you think there was legitimate political discourse on january 6th? >> everyone knows there was. anyone who broke inside. >> scott tweeted that mccarthy's office later had to clarify what he intended to say there.

that anyone who broke inside was not engaged in legitimate political discourse, which again raises the question, michael steele, which part of the day was the legitimate political discourse? the attempt to overturn the presidential election? if you want to put violence to the side. but what's your read? we've always been hesitant, and we should be based on history, about republicans turning on donald trump because they always tend to turn back toward him. what's your read about what we've seen from mcconnell, pence, and others the past few days? >> i think the key thing to understand is the internal polling inside the rnc and other organizations that feed that information to them is showing that the gop is soft on this issue. despite good efforts to sort of undermine and take away from the january 6th commission, particularly in the space of going after kinzinger and cheney, that voters are paying a little more attention. they're not liking what they're

hearing. they're beginning to see and realize how impactful that day was. there was a lot more that was true about what was being said about january 6th than untrue. the untrue part is what trump and his minions were putting out there. what you saw in the leaders is a contrast in leadership. mcconnell is concerned about a senate majority for republicans. he is concerned about republicans taking back the house. he is concerned about republicans creating the beachhead to go into november. mccarthy is concerned about not offending donald trump and not getting sideways with trump. and that is the tension inside the gop that is going to get played out over and over again between now and november. it is not lost on anyone in town that mcconnell is fit to be tied of the candidates running in

republican primaries, that are pushing the narrative away from inflation, afghanistan, masks, et cetera, and focusing, as donald trump wants it focused, on grievance around the 2020 election and the january 6th commission. here's the rub for the democrats. they need to bring it home. they need to make very clear to the american people what happened. put that evidence out there. hopefully the justice department will do the right thing in looking at that evidence critically and pursuing it accordingly. but right now, you're seeing all of these pressure points in this political space around what's happening on the january 6th commission and what the polling is showing on the ground, that it is softening voters toward the democratic view, small "d" democratic view about january 6th. >> about january 6th. of course, democrats and michael

and everybody else would agree, i know, democrats, if they want to win in '22, they'll have to be talking about not january 6th. they'll have to talk about inflation, gas prices. they're going to have to be talking about the economy. they're going to have to be talking about keeping schools open. they're going to have to be talking about keeping businesses open. they're going to have to talk about extraordinary economic numbers that have happened over the past year in a lot of different areas. but those numbers mean very little if inflation keeps going up. jonathan lemire, finally, let's sort of dig down here a little bit. a tale of two republican leaders. you have mitch mcconnell who is obviously concerned about getting republican senate candidates elected. they've got to win statewide in '22, in states like pennsylvania, ohio, wisconsin. then you've got steve, the majority leader, whatever trump calls him, mccarthy.

he's got to worry about his members winning in gerrymandered districts. where, really, the more intense they are, the more money they can raise. they don't have to worry about winning swing states. they just have to worry about winning their gerrymandered district. of course, mccarthy is scared to death that trump may endorse somebody else for speakership, undercutting his chances to be the next speaker. so if people want to know what's happening and why mcconnell and steve are responding differently, the way they are, that's certainly part of that pressure, right? >> yeah. the steve thing doesn't get old. i laugh every time. no, you're right, that is the inherent tension between the two republican leaders here. you laid it out. mcconnell needs to find candidates who can win across an entire state. districts in a wisconsin or pennsylvania, some of them are deep red. the whole state is not like that. if you go too far to the right, if your senate candidate is too trumpy, you could be rejected by

so many of those swing voters or independent voters who broke, many of them, for trump in '16 but biden in '20. therefore, you lose. you wouldn't have a republican senator, and mitch mcconnell wouldn't be majority leader. for mccarthy, it is the opposite. right now, he is totally in the sway of donald trump. terrified of upsetting him and trying to recruit candidates and support candidates that would get trump's backing in these gerrymandered districts. but i do think, to michael's point about the role january 6th will play in this, we saw glenn youngkin in the governor race in virginia. they can't go january 6th on every race. some republicans who were trumpist or supportive of that, yes, january 6th works. but there is a hope among democrats that the january 6th committee, which will soon, they hope, to have primetime hearings, televised hearings this spring, will sort of resurface this and allow them to

really paint republicans as unfit for government. but they don't know what the attorney general is going to do. they don't know if the justice department will take the referrals and spring charges. there is growing frustration in the inner circle of the president about merrick garland and the attorney general being slow to move here. some very close biden advisers growing impatient, hoping for some action. >> fascinating. listen, still ahead, mika, there are a couple of op-eds in today's "wall street journal" that actually talk about the great job joe biden is doing, not only in europe but also on asia. we're going to read parts of both of those op-eds from people who have been critical of him in the past, and get david ignatius' input. we'll talk to committee chairman dick durbin about the search for a supreme court

nominee. plus, pete buttigieg will be our guest as the president renews his push to get build back better across the finish line. also, after weeks of criticizing governor glenn youngkin's efforts to end mask mandates, democrats in virginia join republicans to advance legislation banning school mask requirements. >> there it is. >> we'll take a look at the turnaround. and who doesn't want to live a little longer? how one new study says you can add a decade to your life. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. we'll be right back. my asthma felt anything but normal. ♪ ♪ it was time for a nunormal with nucala. nucala reduces asthma attacks it's a once-monthly add-on treatment for severe eosinophilic asthma. not for sudden breathing problems. allergic reactions can occur. get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. infections that can cause shingles have occured. don't stop steroids unless told by your doctor.

tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. may cause headache, injection site reactions, back pain, and fatigue. ask your asthma specialist about a nunormal with nucala. ♪ life can be a lot to handle. ♪ this magic moment ♪ but heinz knows there's plenty of magic in all that chaos. ♪ so different and so new ♪ ♪ was like any other... ♪ (music) ♪ s♪ i think to myself ♪w ♪ ♪ what a wonderful world ♪ ♪ (jazz drum intro) ♪ (how 'bout this?) (typing) ♪ (jazz music) ♪ (waves crashing)

(blinds clatter) (thank you. have a nice day.) ♪ (trumpet solo) ♪ (cheering) ♪ ♪ (typing) (bell dings) ♪ ♪ (typing) ♪ ♪ ♪ (trumpet solo) ♪ ♪ ♪ (typing) (bell dings) ♪ ♪ (cheering) ♪ ♪ (typing) okay. ♪ ♪ (various sounds) ♪ ♪ (typing) ♪ ♪ (typing) ♪ (trumpet solo) ♪ it's our ultimate sleep number event on the sleep number 360 smart bed. it senses your movements and automatically adjusts to relieve pressure points. (typing)

and it's temperature balancing so you both sleep just right. and now, save 50% on the sleep number 360 limited edition smart bed. plus, 0% interest for 24 months. only for a limited time.

32 past the hour. live look at washington, d.c. the traffic has started, but the sun has yet to come up. wake up, everybody. >> wake up, everybody. >> time to go to work. >> there were two editorials,

two op-eds in the "wall street journal," opinion page. from some people who have been pretty critical -- >> very critical. >> -- of the biden administration and how it's started. i will tell you, we're going to get to that in a second, mika, but you're starting to actually see joe biden and what people were hoping they would get from a bidenstarting to see the alliances come together in europe, also in asia, and that's what we'll talk about in a minute. first, let's get the news. >> intense diplomacy is under way in eastern europe, as russia shows no sign of pulling its forces back from the ukraine border. nbc news chief foreign affairs correspondent richard engel has more. >> reporter: possible positive signs from french president macron's marathon diplomacy. meeting for five hours with president putin. macron arrived in ukraine,

meeting president zelensky and sounding optimistic. saying putin had told him he won't be initiating an escalation of the crisis. and that russia will pull its forces out of belarus soon. though the kremlin says no deals were made. a breakthrough, maybe, but according to the pentagon, russian troops are still increasing on ukraine's borders, especially now in crimea in the south. intelligence estimates, ukrainian forces would fight back but likely have to go underground within days of an invasion to form a resistance. nbc's matt bradley is with ukrainian forces who are urgently preparing. >> ukraine is littered with these old soviet era tanks. the idea here is to refurbish them and turn them into sparkling, new, sophisticated weapons of war.

>> reporter: military and intelligence officials say russia is expected to have enough force in place to invade all of ukraine within the next two to three weeks. >> wow. >> david, what is your latest assessment of what's happening in ukraine? >> joe. we're in the period that winston churchill described as jaw-jaw, not war-war. it's obviously welcome if we're talking. the diplomacy the french president emmanuel macron has attempted in this long, five-hour conversation monday with putin and many phone calls prior to that hasn't, as far as i can tell, produce anything except discussion of the parameters of an agreement. but the limits are the same as before. what putin wants, the u.s. and nato allies simply are not willing to give up, which is a guarantee that ukraine would never be a nato country. i met this week with a former

senior ukrainian official who was visiting washington. he said, we have to think about the possibility that this isn't going to be temporary. in other words, this crisis is going to go a long time. you'll have russian forces on the border, occasionally launching missiles, staing provocations, making cyberattacks, but staying there. it is possible we'll have, for the first time since the soviet union, russian troops in belarus, which will be permanently stationed there. significant change for belarus. you'll have ukraine ringed by russian forces for a long time. essentially at the point of russian blackmail. putin loves this. this is putin's moment. he's got everybodyanxious. he delights in producing the

anxiety and suffering. once he starts a war, he pays big, big penalties. he may prefer to just, you know, kind of make the world as frightened, pliant, and play it out for a good while longer. >> right. maybe he does. at the same time, the longer he's there, the more openings there are for nato troops to build up along his border. it's a nightmare for putin. a nightmare to have more troops in poland, morehis border, more troops across central and eastern europe, more weapons systems across eastern europe. it's a game he can play, but it is not a game that he plays that, at the end of the day, he doesn't have to deal with more than just a few irritants. that's one of the things the "wall street journal" is talking about today. the cause of what vladimir putin has done, he has actually allowed joe biden to get his footing and get allies together

and put together a strong response. >> joe biden has a lot of consequences that he can choose from. here are two of those notable op-eds in the "wall street journal" this morning about biden and his foreign policy first. jenkins says biden is the right man for his times. >> by the way, that's a screaming headline, that that came from holman. >> president biden has a few flaws, but he was a krield of the -- child of the cold war. he has discombobulated vladimir putin by his un-obama response, including tensions over ukraine. on monday, whipping a german chancellor into line. by sending military supplies to ukraine. preparing sanctions. the biden administration has orchestrated a set of signals that even mr. putin can't misinterpret. whatever the russian leader is thinking, he hoped to find the u.s. and its allies weak and

divided. this is proving to be a bad bet so far. >> michael steele, i must say, i'm in the minority here. i think i'm in the minority with a lot of people on this front. i think all vladimir putin has done has invited u.s. troops and nato troops to go further east, closer to russia. if he was worried about ukraine being a member of nato, which let's just face it, it's not going to happen. they're not ready for nato. they're not going to be a member of nato for a long time. but if he was worried about encroachment, he has opened the door. >> created it. >> he's said, bring your troops. bring your tanks. bring your weapons. bring your planes. please, bring them right to the border of russia. he knows now in the not 2014.

if he moves further, the consequences are even greater. that's why this just isn't in his best interest or in the best interest of u.s.-russian relations. >> i agree with that, joe. and i think you're less in the minority on that view than you may realize. i think that is currently an underlying narrative that is an important element of what we see playing out. i think what holman has put his finger on in his op-ed is exactly the point. at the end of the day, if you're looking at this as a chess board and chess moves, biden's kind of boxed putin in. he's done it in a way that he didn't play the politics. he didn't play the political game on this. he actually played a geo strategic game with nato and his allies, to your point, whipping those folks into shape in a way that you have not seen done in

recent times. i think, for putin, the calculation was maybe a little bit of, you know, leftover intoxication with his boy donald trump, who was his be all and end all, and would manipulate the american political system in such a way that gave putin cover and gave putin -- >> michael steele, let's also go back to the previous president, barack obama. >> yup. >> in 2014, the ukraiians couldn't even get defensive weapons. >> exactly. >> the message was sent to putin, go in. there are not going to be any consequences. i think he's made the mistake that a lot of the people that were in the obama administration are now in the biden administration, and he made the miscalculation that they were going to act in the same way. my goodness, they have surprised him. >> i absolutely agree. that's why i say you're not by yourself in that realization. i think for putin, of everybody, he's realized that he may have been -- he may have out-foxed himself in the kinds of moves

he's been making. now, again, you know, there's still the troop buildup. there's the possibility of incursion. i think it is less likely now than it was three, four months ago. because i think putin was looking for a signal from the white house that he didn't get. a signal that he got from obama eight or nine years ago. i think that's, right, now, his biggest mistake. he is playing old politics. biden is saying, okay, you want to do cold war? let's do cold war. >> willie, sorry, just one other point i want to bring in really quickly. the terrible miscalculation that the russians have made is they looked at the move in afghanistan as a sign of weakness by biden. >> right. >> i oppose the move in afghanistan, but i knew when he was running this summer he was going to make that move because he's made no secret that he's

hated karzai since 2009. he's hated the afghanistan government since 2009. he thought they were hucksters. he thought they were stealing our money. he thought they were corrupt. he thought americans needed to get the hell out of there. he told barack obama that in 2009 and in 2010. so the russians see this as a sign of weakness. no. this was -- afghanistan was -- the die was cast on that for biden 12 years ago. if you're looking at that going, oh, he's weak,trying to generalize that, it is another terrible miscalculation russia made. >> shouldn't have been surprised by it. joe biden campaigned on it during the 2020 campaign. obviously, the way it went down was another matter entirely, losing 13 service members in the hasty evacuation. the other "wall street journal" op-ed is by william galston. president biden is off to a good start. in the asian-pacific region, administration officials have

shored up traditional alliances and made new ones. they're getting high marks in europe for its strong stand against a possible russian attack on ukraine and for its careful consultation with europe. this past week, mr. biden dispatched 3,000 u.s. troops to eastern europe and authorized an additional $200 million in defensive military aid to ukraine, which an emergency lift is delivering to kyiv. baltic states also sent weapons. poland and the czech republic will join them. last week, turkey agreed to allow ukraine to manufacture turkish-designed drones which ukraine already used in one region. two in one day from the "wall street journal," supporting on at least this issue, the handling of ukraine, the biden administration. >> i think we'll get re-tweets from members of the biden administration, pleased with the unlikely raise from the "wall street journal." officials i've talked to say, obviously, this is still a precarious moment here. but they do feel good about the alliances they've strengthened.

alliances that did get strained because of what happened in afghanistan, certainly. you know, four years of donald trump did a number of them. joe biden, as president, was supposed to restore traditional alliances, a sense of normalcy between the world capitals. analysts i've spoken to think that there is -- part of putin's plan here is, indeed, whether he goes in or not, is to provide a sort of sense of menace. to sort of establish, hey, russia is back. we are here. he's overextended himself, they believe. he doesn't think the russian economy can support this. there is a belief he'll need the window of the next few weeks if he is going to invade. you can't keep troop levels up that high for that long. morale sinks. but he may leave a presence, sort of daring the west or ukraine to try to do something, to remind them, we're a mier player here. any time the world is talking

about russia, it's a win for russia, as put season trying to establish the dominance as the other superpower in the world. right now, the biden team feel like the diplomatic efforts are making progress. every day they're not shooting is a day they're winning. >> and if, in fact, this progress leads to those troops getting off the border, a significant number of troops getting off the border, then the real diplomatic challenge begins. that is figuring out a way to help vladimir putin and russia get out of the corner. i say that only because we want to avert a european war. we want to improve relations with russia. that has not been easy to do over the past 12 to 15 years. but that should always be our stated goal. those troops on the border right now are there because of a sense of humiliation that many russians felt, going back to

1991. so we're going to have to be creative. we're going to have to figure out a way to let him get out of the corner, get those troops off the border, and avert war. that's going to be a hell of a challenge. we'll wait to see. and we hope, we hope that's a problem that the biden administration has. david ignatius, i'm curious what your view is on what galston and jenkins said this morning, not only about joe biden using a crisis with russia to shore up an alliance, alliances across europe, but also the growing crisis with china, to shore up some asian alliances we've certainly seen, especially with australia. >> joe, i think the "journal" writers are voicing what many -- i want to say most -- commentators feel. the most important thing the biden team has done is repair u.s. alliances and build some

new ones in asia. the way in which nato has been managed, the way in which intelligence information has been lowered in classification so nato allies can be briefed on as much of what we know as possible, have been encouraged to think about ways they can move troops if russia invades, that's really been well done. they're on the phone every day. i'm told european journalists get a call at least once a week for the nsc, with some senior officials wanting to keep them informs. in asia, it's the same thing. we have created some significant new alliance mechanisms, the quad that combines india, japan, australia, the united states, rising india, strongest force for check in china going forward. the alliance giving military power to the pacific because of the one weapons system the

chinese can't deal with. our quiet, very stealthy submarines. there have been a series of moves to take the one asset the united states indisputably has, good alliances, and make it a centerpiece of the policy going forward. the biden team, whatever they've done wrong, and there is a long list, they've done that really right. i think everybody is beginning to get that, including republican-leaning editorialists at the "wall street journal." >> david ignatius, thank you very much for coming on this morning. up next, we'll ask reverend al about his meeting with nfl commissioner roger goodell over the league's hiring practices. plus, an investigation in germany says retired pope benedict could have done more to stop abuse by priests. we'll have his response and get reaction from the vatican. that's ahead on "morning joe." v. that's ahead on "morning joe."

with my varilux progressive lenses i seamlessly transition from near to far. when you see no limits, there are no limits. book now at your local essilor experts to push the limits of your vision. varilux lenses by essilor. there's a different way to treat hiv. it's once-monthly injectable cabenuva. cabenuva is the only once-a-month, complete hiv treatment for adults who are undetectable. cabenuva helps keep me undetectable. it's two injections, given by a healthcare provider once a month. hiv pills aren't on my mind. i love being able to pick up and go. don't receive cabenuva if you're allergic to its ingredients or taking certain medicines, which may interact with cabenuva. serious side effects include allergic reactions post-injection reactions, liver problems,...and depression. if you have a rash and other allergic reaction symptoms,

stop cabenuva and get medical help right away. tell your doctor if you have liver problems or mental health concerns, and if you are pregnant, breastfeeding, or considering pregnancy. some of the most common side effects include injection site reactions, fever, and tiredness. if you switch to cabenuva, attend all treatment appointments. with once-a-month cabenuva, i'm good to go. ask your doctor about once-monthly cabenuva. welcome to the eat fresh refresh at subway wait, that's new wait, you're new too nobody told you? subway's refreshing with better ingredients, better footlongs, and better spokespeople. because you gotta you gotta refresh to be fresh i'm so glad we could all take this trip together, son yeah. and kayak made getting here so easy- ♪ ♪ here we go. you know i'm a kayak denier! you can't possibly believe kayak compare hundreds of travel sites at once! get out! i will do no such thing. and don't use kayak to fly home, because it's not real!

i'm going back to the room. compare hundreds of travel sites at once. kayak. search one and done. men put their skin through a lot. day-in, day-out that's why dove men body wash has skin-strengthening nutrients and moisturizers that help rebuild your skin. dove men+care. smoother, healthier skin with every shower. after my car accident, dove men+care. wondnder whahatmy c cas. so i called the barnes firm. i'm rich barnes. youour cidedentase e woh than insurance offered? call the barnes firm now to find out. yoyou ght t beurprpris

ci had no idea how muchw i wamy case was worth. c call the barnes firm to find out what your case could be worth. we will help get you the best result possible. ♪ call one eight hundred, eight million ♪

♪♪ welcome back to "morning joe." 6:53 in the morning. beautiful live picture. it's warming up here in new york city. at long last, days in the 50s this week. reverend sharpton is on set with us. you met with nfl commissioner rger goodell yesterday in the context of brian flores' lawsuit, who was fired from his job. nfl jobs are full now. one new black coach hired, lovie smith who had previous experience in the nfl before leaving for the university of illinois and coming back. houston texans hired him. brian flores and his attorney said, good on the texans for hiring him, but effectively, it should have been me, brian flores' attorney said. what is your message to goodell, and what do you hope to see going forward? >> i sent a letter with the urban league and president of the naacp, asking for a meeting. we met on monday, truly, for

over an hour. our message to him was that, first, the rooney rule has not worked. we've not been able to see a real, quality increase in terms of black ownership, which is still zero. there's no black owners in 32 clubs in the history of the nfl. and we only have had, at that point, monday, now on wednesday, we have two black coaches. so there has to be a different rule. i think mark drove that home. my point was, you have to remember, as we're asking you for timetables and goals, concrete timetables and goals, you are dealing with teams that are financed by public money. we laid it out. these teams are not just being underwritten by billionaires. municipalities and states are investing money in these teams, investing money in these stadiums. and if you guys cannot figure

out the way to represent the diverity of the taxpayers that is paying for your stadiums and paying for your games, we're going into the city councils and state legislatures and have them vote to remove their money. we have the right to say we're not going to finance a league that we can't own a team and we can't coach a team. you figure it out. and i think that was the message that really got to him. as well as, we'll go to advertisers. you'll have your super bowl sunday, but you won't have the same super bowl next year if we can't figure this out. we'll go to advertisers and say, you want to advertise with them? you're going to face our campaign against you in our community. colin kaepernick took a courageous stand. still not given a job. we're not going to see brian flores left out there like that. we want to see him not dragged through the legal hoops, a long arbitration, and we want to see goals and timetables. we want to work with you or against you. it is your choice, but you

cannot keep -- one team is 100% public funding. you cannot keep using public funds and not have a fair kind of diversity plan that is concrete. >> remind people, brian flores, 40 years old. won eight of his last nine games with the dolphins. they were on the doorstep of the playoffs. they were arguably the worst team in the league a couple years ago. hopefully he has a bright future in coaching ahead of him. how do you make sure, rev, because this is not your first romeo, how do you ensure there is followthrough on this, that rger goodell and the nfl didn't just say, okay, we met with the reverend al sharpton. we did our job. the rooney rule was put in place in 2003, and 20 years later, we have two black head coaches. >> we will be in front of city councils and city legislatures if we do not deal with this in a short period of time. and if they don't go to the table and deal with brian flores. including his charge that he was

offered money to tank games. so we're not talking about waiting a month. we'll be back there next week. that's why a collective of those of us in national civil rights groups are on this. we can get the votes in these city councils to say, we'll stop public funds. we'll see how much your exclusive billionaires want to operate without public money. >> the other part of the allegation is he was saying he was paid to lose games. therefore, making him the face of a dismal team. making it harder for him to get another job down the road. another african-american head coach made a similar accuaccusa. will we see evidence to back up his claim? >> a lawyer says they have the evidence. he is a good lawyer. i think that is going to raise all kinds of flags, even possible criminal investigations. clearly, you want them to tank games, it'll hurt their record as coaches while you're in a better position to go to the

draft. it's absolutely a catch-22 that we can't have tolerated. >> obviously, this is the story of the nfl right now, with the super bowl just a few days away. >> is there a super bowl? >> there you go. rev, thanks. keep us posted on this. appreciate it. good to see you. coming up next, is mitch mcconnell the one reason immune to donald trump's attacks? we'll explain why the senate minority leader is once again shrugging off the former president's criticism. plus, new polling suggests a shift among democratic voters when it comes to funding the police. a look at those numbers when we come back in two minutes. come back in two minutes for powerful arthritis pain relief. voltaren, the joy of movement.

it is the top of the hour. a live look at the white house, as the sun as come up over washington. welcome back to "morning joe." it is wednesday, february 9th. jonathan lemire and michael steele are still with us. joining the conversation, we have senior political correspondent for the "washington examiner," david trucker. with "politico," sam stein. and we just saw her, republican strategist and msnbc political analyst, susan del percio joins us. good to have you all on board this hour. let's launch right in. mitch mcconnell added his voice to the number of republicans criticizing the rnc following a censure vote against republicans liz cheney and adam

kinzinger. here is some of what he had to say yesterday. >> i'll give my view of what happened january 6th, and we all were here. we saw what happened. it was a violent insurrection for the purpose of trying to prevent the peaceful transfer of power after a legitimacy certified election. with regard to the suggestion that the rnc should be in the business of picking and choosing republicans who ought to be supported, traditionally, the view of the national party committees is that we support all members of our party, regardless of their positions on some issues. the issue is whether or not the rnc should be sort of singling out members of our party who may have different views from the majority. that's not the job of the rnc.

>> david drucker, you interviewed mcconnell yesterday in a piece, "mcconnell dismisses trump criticism, saying it's no threat to his leadership role." you write in part, this, asked if he was concerned trump might spark a revolt against his leadership or block his path to becoming senate majority leader again if republicans recaptured the chamber in november, mcconnell looked almost dumbfounded by the question. every reporter in this town, including, i'm sure, you, have been probing to find one for months, right, mcconnell said. regarding the presumed search by members of the press to find a gop senator who agrees with trump and wants to replace the senate minority leader. have you found one? >> david drucker, majority leader certainly has not shown any fear in calling out donald trump since january 6th. i find that challenge to you and

other reporters in town pretty striking when you compare that to how kevin mccarthy acts every day. literally yesterday, running scared. >> yeah. look, kevin mccarthy and mitch mcconnell are in different places. mccarthy's base is particularly loyal to donald trump. he is facing a vote for speaker if republicans win the house majority. he needs 218 votes in a floor vote. mitch mcconnell has never been opposed for leader in 15 years. it is really interesting to listen to republican senate candidates, and i know why they say this, not comment on who they would vote for for majority or minority leader, saying, look, i don't know who the candidate is going to be. it is going to be mitch mcconnell. in fact, all of his votes have been by acclamation over all these years for both minority and majority leader. of course, this is a private conference only vote. it's not a floor vote where you need 51 senators out in the

open. the reason mitch mcconnell has been secure in his leadership is, one, he does listen to his members and does make tweaks here and there when they start to signal to him they want him to either go in a particular direction or back off. the other reason is they just think he is very good at his job. they don't want to do it. he's good at it, from their point of view. and they are happy to let him play this inside game, even though the former president donald trump continues to bang the drum to try and get rid of him. >> willie, it's so interesting. we are seeing more and more republicans starting to speak out against donald trump in a way that we haven't seen since the summer of 2016. people can say, oh, well, you know, they're horrible human beings. they can say this and that. we're just reporting. more republicans, more powerful republicans are speaking out against donald trump than any

time since, say, may or june of 2016. mike pence said donald trump was wrong for claiming the former vice president could have overturned the election. several republicans have spoken out. among them, new jersey governor chris christie and senator marco rubio agreeing with pence. we reported on mitch mcconnell's reaction to the rnc censuring of cheney and kinzinger. asa hutchinson said it undermines the rule of law. alaska's murkowski. the censure was called a, quote, sad day for the party, according to logan. senator bill cassidy said, they're trying to figure out what happened on january 6th. huh? here's what we heard from some other republican senators.

>> i talked to ronna, she's a good lady, and the statement. she doesn't -- she was talking about things other than violence. and, you know, i think all of us up here want to talk about forward, not backward. >> we've got issues that we should be focusing on besides censuring two members of congress because they have a different opinion. >> do you agree with the action, actually censuring cheney and kinzinger? >> you know, it's not my job. but they said in the resolution they wanted republicans to be unified. that was not a unifying action. >> anything that my party does that comes across as being stupid is not going to help us. >> you know, mitt romney placed calls to his relative, mcdaniel, expressed his displeasure there, and then, willie, spoke out forcefully, again, number of republicans speaking out

forcefully. you're hearing, my gosh, even from josh hawley, saying people who committed crimes on january 6th, who committed acts of violence on january 6th should go to jail. that's something, again, we were not hearing a month or two ago from this many republicans. something's happening. don't know what it is, but something's happening out there. >> yeah, to hear it from the senator who gave the raised fist to the people who were about to significant moment. susan del percio, with the republican party, they step out on the ledge, criticize donald trump, the base rears up, and they step back from the edge. if you're lindsey graham at reagan national airport, people call you a traitor, you support donald trump again. but we are hearing more and more prominent voices on this issue because it is undeniable, as mitch mcconnell said, they've watched it happen with their own eyes. there are a ton of people, namely the man who can be the

next speaker of the house, mccarthy, running down the hallway to avoid this question. but some people in the senate are stepping up, at least on this issue. >> they are. i think one thing is clear, they know the only way they're going to be in the majority come 2022 elections is if they denounce this type of behavior. they all remember the special elections in georgia. donald trump is the reason why mitch mcconnell is not the leader of the senate. they all know it. it was no accident that leader mcconnell spoke with several u.s. senators behind him. he had thune there, joni ernst there. they weren't rebelling. he did it with them. there is a message out there, we want to be in the majority. i would like to think it was because they were so principled and they really believed it was the right thing to do. but not even mike pence has walked back his remarks from last week, which i find fascinating since that's the typical. you say something, you walk it back. we're not seeing it. because republicans want to win. the difference is with kevin mccarthy, he believes he is at

the timered -- tethered to donald trump in order to win. he needs that. >> michael steele, we noted the political calculation. mcconnell has space to be able to criticize this. mccarthy does not because he needs trump's backing. the other part of this is, is this, like, the one topic, the very extreme edges of january 6th, where republicans feel like, okay, this is a safe space to criticize donald trump? it would be more noteworthy, wouldn't it, if we see more full-fledged pushback to other parts of the trump persona, the trump record, or efforts for trump to run again? >> yeah, it would. i think the january 6th narrative is one that is so glaring because, again, we all watched it. we can have disagreements on tax cuts, or we can have disagreements on kids in cages, and the policy part behind that, and you're not going to necessarily get mcconnell to go

to a bank of microphones and really speak against that. but something that involved america watching with such clarity, what unfolded, changes the way they have to talk about it. they thought for a long time, and they were successful for a long time, at basically remaining mute, not saying much or saying as little as they possibly could, beyond what was said on january 7th and 8th. now, however, as the january 6th commission is laying out all the information, the supreme court has given them full access to presidential records, we're now being told that the president, former president donald trump, was tearing up documents. this creates a whole different narrative and understanding for the american people, in how they're looking at january 6th. at the end of the day, yes, inflation and afghanistan and other issues are going to be in the main for a lot of voters

when they go to the polls, but january 6th has the possibility of changing how they feel about republicans being back in power. and whether or not they want to give their power to a party that believes that january 6th was legitimate -- a legitimate insurrection. >> political. >> legitimate political discourse. >> sam stein, your thought on all of this? i mean, it is important to note again, that when kevin mccarthy turned the corner and was going -- kind of was cornered in the staircase, did say that those people who were volent on that day should go to jail, and then kind of squirmed his way out of it. when cornered, he did speak the truth about what needs to happen in light of a violent insurrection. >> yeah. look, i don't want to be the

skunk at the party, but we're overstating the amount the republicans are turning on trump. i'm with jonathan, this is a unique case. if you're talking about january 6th, the insurrection, republicans are fine, at least some republicans are fine saying, no, trump is wrong there. we've seen that over time with mitch mcconnell especially. if you look at the clips of the people that we played up top, who were comfortable saying that, none of them are going before voters this fall. they're all senators or governors who have notably decided against running for senate. in a case, larry hogan. none are going in front of primary voters this fall. there's a reason, the base of the party would not tolerate that disdissension, at least at this juncture. they wouldn't tolerate the dissension. if you look at candidates running in republican primaries in the senate, not just the house, the herschel walkers, jd vances, those people aren't walking away from trump. if anything, they're embracing

him triegttighter. we're at a cross-roads for the republican party, but i still think the party, by and large, goes with trump. >> you're not being a skunk at the party. >> realities. >> we're just talking about the reality that the republican party, most members of the republican party couldn't even speak the most simple truths about one of the most despicable acts in recent american history. so the fact that mike pence, finally, a guy that actually took his lead from donald trump on where donald trump placed his water during conferences, and the guy that would lead those grotesque, like, loyalty sort of roundtables inside of cabinet rooms, the fact that he called trump out, the fact that he did it in front of the federalist society, the fact he got applause from the federalist society, the fact that susan said he hasn't backed down is

significant. the fact that mitch mcconnell keeps saying what he is saying. the fact that other republican senators are saying this, this is a change regarding january 6th. regarding the insurrection. but, no, we make no -- i'm not mistaken for a second that mitch mcconnell's biggest problem is he has a bunch of trumpy candidates running in the senate races. if they win, especially in battleground states, it is going to be a problem for mitch. you have some fascinating -- did i clear that up? thanks. >> you did. >> you're not a skunk. okay. as george bush would say, headline, sam not a skunk. we wanted to make that clear. >> thank you. >> fascinating polling. first of all, pardons. do you think donald trump should have issued this pardon for all participants in the january 6th attack on the capitol? tell us what you found. >> yeah. i mean, this is something trump floated. he would do it.

many people don't want a blanket pardon of the insurrectionists on january 6th. 68% say don't. even among republicans, you can see on the data points there, there's not support. though 33% of republicans saying yes is somewhat significant. yeah, i don't think there's much of an appetite here to pardon these people. look, this goes to what we were saying two seconds ago. the country is not in the place that trump is on this issue. even republicans, especially staunch republicans, aren't on the same position trump is. not saying there isn't a portion of the politics that is on this issue. >> why so many republicans are speaking out on january 6th, you have to just look at the independent number. >> right. >> the independent number on whether the january 6th participants should receive pardons. 70% say no. yeah, there we go. only 13%, a little more than 1

out of 10, say yes. that is a message that has made it to republicans. i find this next polling question all the more fascinating and all the more relevant for the democratic party's problems in 2020 and what they need to do in 2022. to what extent, if at all, do you believe that giving cops, police departments, more money would make crime go down? boy, the democratic number is really moving on this one, sam. >> 59% may seem like an outlier. 82%, republicans. 63% independents. that number is up 13% from july 2021. you know, in terms of a shift in public opinion, that is a big shift. it gets to what's happening, you know, on the ground, essentially. people are watching crime rates rise, especially in cities. voters are reacting in obvious

ways towards it. whatever momentum was behind the defund the police movement, it is dissipating rapidly. republicans are already there. independents are definitely there. democrats are getting to the place where they say, look, we should probably send more money to police departments, not less, to fight crime. you see that in the election of eric adams in new york. joe biden has been, to his credit on this issue, ahead of the curve for democrats. he was advocating for enhancing police department funds during the campaign. he saw where the puck was heading, and he skated there quickly. >> yeah. no doubt about it. david drucker, if you look at these numbers from today, and the fact, 82 % of republicans want increased funding for crime. 59% of democrats want increased funding for crime. that is way up from july. and then you look at independents, 63% want increased funding for crime.

you can see, this is -- this is going to be a huge issue in 2022. from what i've seen, democrats are way behind the ball on this issue. of course, people get angry and will send tweets. i don't care. if you're a democrat and you're in one of those swing districts in the house, crime better be the top issue. one of the top issues you're talking about and getting crime down. because this is the issue that's on people's mind. another issue on people's mind in the swing districts that democrats don't want to talk about, don't shoot me, i'm only the piano player, the southern border. democrats never talk about that. that is on swing voters' mind. david, talk about crime and the southern border issue and how republicans plan to exploit that in 2022. >> to get you more hate mail, let's throw in masking.

masks for children in public schools, that's another thing in these swing districts that is getting the dander up of parents who are ready to start relaxing these pandemic-era mitigation efforts. look, i always like to say in politics, you can judge an issue by who is saying what, who is doing what, or who is feeling what. when you see independents, democrats, the democrats in particular, more and more of them wanting more resources for crime prevention, you know this isn't just some issue republicans are making up as a wedge issue. look, people are experiencing this on the ground, in stays in particular across the country. suburbs as well. but cities where, look, most cities are majority democrat, in terms of who lives there. i think that what you're seeing from members of -- some members of congress who are running for re-election. i've been covering this in senate and governors races. they're responding to what

they're hearing from their voters and what they're seeing. part of what, i think, the country is dealing with -- and, joe, you and i are old enough to remember this. we went through a period in the '60s, '70s, '80s, crime was rampant. people were moving to the suburbs. republicans were responding. biden helped with a crime bill in the senate in the '70s. as crime was reduced and under control for so many years, even republicans in congress got ant bandwagon of reducing sentences. legislation to overhaul how long people were in jail and for what reason. the country felt comfortable that they could make these changes. the past couple of years, we have seen crime on the rise. first republicans were responding. now, you're seeing democrats respond. like sam said, the president was ahead of the curve in his party on this issue. this is something that, if a politician doesn't pay attention

to and respond to forcefully, they're going to have a problem in 2022. it's always important not just to talk about and focus onnish issues that poll well in a messagingpriority. this is up there with the economy and the coronavirus. it is going to play a big factor in how many seats democrats can defend in the house and the u.s. senate. >> you talk about the issues that matter to people, that day in and day out matter to people. crime, obviously, right there near the top. masking as far as schools. schools staying open. moving past covid. again, these are things that -- it is going to get democrats out of the comfort zone. they have to get out of the comfort zone if they want to win in 2022. and i still am not so sure that some of those shock numbers that came in from 2020, especially in the state of florida, from

people i talk to in miami-dade, i'm not so sure that so much of donald trump's strong showing in miami-dade and across florida had to do with covid, had to do with school closings, had to do with lot of things that, again, were responsible health wise, but, again, made voters uncomfortable. it's just something that democrats, especially in the swing districts, are going to have to worry about. susan, this gives me excuse to repeat a story that mika has heard 87 times. >> oh no. >> i'm sure that our viewers have heard two or three times. but it is about the crime issue. i was a member of congress. i was flying up from washington, d.c. to new york city. i was seated next to somebody from one of the prominent democratic families on long island. one of the biggest fundraisers on long island. and i made the mistake -- she asked what i did. i usually don't tell people what

i do. i made the mistake saying i'm in congress. are you a republican or democrat? i was like, i'm a republican. for an hour, right, from then national to laguardia, she was yelling at me, "you are a fascist. you're going straight to" -- it was horrible. i was like, yes, ma'am. i'm sorry. yes, ma'am. you know what? seriously, i just wanted to drink my diet coke and read "sports illustrated." she wouldn't stop. as we're landing, i'm looking down, and i said, "so i take it you're voting for mark green, right?" she goes, "are you kidding me? i'm voting for rudy giuliani." i was, "what?" she goes, "my kids and i can go in and we can see a broadway play. we can eat at a restaurant without somebody urinaing on us while we're standing outside waiting at the restaurant. i don't have to worry about, you know, getting mugged. my husband getting beaten up.

no, i'm voting for giuliani." i just took that little conversation and, obviously, i filed that one away. obviously can remember it, like, 25 years later. that is the resonance that crime as an issue has, even for the most intense democratic voters who don't feel safe. >> that's right, joe. and what's important to recognize is that the democrats don't always have to be on defense on this. there are issues that can be addressed. for example, in new york, nassau county, one of the biggest suburbs of new york city, democrat control until this past november because of bail reform. bail reform is what allows for the "new york post" headlines of seeing people walk out with ten steaks or people not getting held over because they get released after bashing somebody in the face, because there is no bail required. so there are issues that can be

tackled that doesn't mean you're soft on crime. you have to rethink this. let's look what happened with the manhattan district attorney and the memo he sent out about not arresting people who commit petty crimes. that has an impact because it also goes into the psyche of the voter. they see that things are not happening. people are not getting arrested. people who have been arrested for hitting people or pushing people on the subway platform are out on the street 24 hours later. so this issue is very real. the thing is, as that woman 25 years ago said to you, they were all personal things that she felt. she didn't necessarily know someone who was murdered, but she knew someone who was mugged or someone's car who was broken into. it's those crimes that's allowing the mentality of new yorkers to really have their backs up. it wasn't just those ten steaks walking out of a supermarket the other day. on the upper east side, there's

a rite aid that a man just walked in, filled up a plastic bag, walked out, and had no consequences. people are feeling it. they're concerned. >> susan del percio, david drucker, sam stein, and michael steele, thank you all for being on with us this morning. now to this. retired pope benedict asked forgiveness for any grievous faults in his handling of clergy sex abuse cases. but admitted to no personal or specific wrongdoing, after a report criticized his actions in four cases while he was archbishop of munich. nbc news correspondent tom costello has more. >> reporter: from pope benedict's personal secretary, reading benedict's request for forgiveness amid allegations he failed to take decisive action against abusers decades ago. the pope emeritus denying any

personal wrongdoing. insisting he only served as archbishop of munich for less than five years in the late '70s and '80s. but acknowledging mistakes in how abuse cases were handled. offering his heartfelt request for forgiveness. i've had great responsibilities in the catholic church, he writes. all the greater is my pain for the abuses and the errors that occurred in those different places during the time. benedict's letter follows an independent german investigation that found then cardinal ratzinger failed to act against four abusive priests in munich. some survivors of clerical abuse say the letter isn't enough. >> how quickly he wanted to demonstrate that he was only an administrator in munich for less than five years. almost to say, this wasn't my problem. >> reporter: benedict's attorneys insist, at the time, he did not know about the predator priest criminal histories in munich. >> in the letter today, he speaks about the fact that,

quite soon, he believes he will be at judgment's door. he personally feels clear of conscience. >> reporter: nine years after retiring, a still evolving and controversial legacy. >> joining us live at the vatican, nbc news reporter claudio. you have details about the investigation of the former pope that prompted this letter. what do we know so far? >> reporter: well, indeed. it is a beautiful, sunny day at the vatican. that letter is casting once again a dark cloud over this place. why? because we know, as a matter of fact, that this refers to that statement, that spiritual testimony that pope benedict, retired pope benedict said yesterday. as tom costello said, four different cases the investigators in germany say he mishandled. we know the specifics, the specific details of at least one

of those cases. it refers to an incident in january 1980 when pope benedict xvi was the archbishop of munich. one priest found guilty of abusing children in another parish, in another city in germany, was being transferred to munich to undergo some sort of therapy. now, that priest was later allowed to continue to do pastoral activity and to be in touch with children, even though he was a non-pedophile. then he moved on to abuse more children even in munich. pope benedict xvi, then the archbishop. the archbishop is supposed to know everything that happens in his archdiocese and needs to make decisions, as this one. the pope first denied he was present in that meeting, that he knew anything about that or about the past of this priest. later on, when it became clear it was impossible he wasn't at the meeting, well, he sent a

letter saying that he was sorry. he made the mistake. yes, he was at that meeting. he attributed that mistake to translators of that letter by people who were helping him draft that letter. he made the reference to this specific episode in yesterday's letter as well. he said that was just an oversight. he was sorry. it was not intentional. at the same time, he said it was hurtful to see that that mistake or oversight, as he called it, was being used to cast doubt on his truthfulness and also to call him a liar, guys. >> yeah. claudio, so the pope asked for forgiveness. yet, he said, i did nothing wrong. i suspect no one will be satisfied with that statement, will they? >> reporter: well, at least from hire at -- here at the vatican,

they are defending his statement. there are no official words from the pope, but you need to listen to hear the mood here. the personal assistant or secretary who worked and lived with him essentially for a very long time, gave an interview to italian media this morning, saying that he thinks that the accusations against pope benedict xvi are part of a widespread smear campaign that is aimed at destroying the persona and work of the former pope. he said that we should not mistake a -- we should not compare a mistake to a lie. also, and i have it here, that a man can deceive another man but not god. at the same time, we've got the director, editorial director of all the publications here, who also wrote a long editorial on a vatican news website, saying that, essentially, we shouldn't forget that benefit xvi did wage

a struggle against clerical abuse versus the cardinal and then as a pope. if you combine all those things, you see that at least here at the vatican, they have pope benedict's back, for now. >> reporting live from the vatican, thank you very much. still ahead on "morning joe," new york joins several other democrat-led states that are rolling back covid mask mandates. what that move means ahead of this year's midterm elections. plus, senate majority whip dick durbin says labeling the january 6th capitol attack as legitimate political discourse is a shameful new low for the republican party. he will be our guest ahead on "morning joe." we'll be right back. ahead on "morning joe." "morning joe." we'll be right back. nutrients and moisturizers that help rebuild your skin.

dove men+care. smoother, healthier skin with every shower. ♪♪♪ my name is austin james. as a musician living with diabetes, fingersticks can be a real challenge. that's why i use the freestyle libre 2 system. with a painless, one-second scan

i know my glucose numbers without fingersticks. now i'm managing my diabetes better and i've lowered my a1c from 8.2 to 6.7. take the mystery out of managing your diabetes and lower your a1c. now you know. try it for free at freestylelibre.us my asthma felt anything but normal. ♪ ♪ it was time for a nunormal with nucala. nucala reduces asthma attacks it's a once-monthly add-on treatment for severe eosinophilic asthma. not for sudden breathing problems. allergic reactions can occur. get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. infections that can cause shingles have occured. don't stop steroids unless told by your doctor. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. may cause headache, injection site reactions, back pain, and fatigue. ask your asthma specialist about a nunormal with nucala. back pain, and fatigue. ♪ ♪ ♪

hey google. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ inner voice (kombucha brewer): as a new small business owner, i find it useful to dramatically stare out of the window... ...so that no one knows i'm secretly terrified inside. inner voice (sneaker shop owner): i'm using hand gestures and pointing... ...so no one can tell i'm unsure about my business finances. inner voice (furniture maker): i'm constantly nodding... ...because i know everything about furniture... ...but with the business side... ...i'm feeling a little lost. quickbooks can help. an easy way to get paid, pay your staff and know where your business stands. new business? no problem. yeah. success starts with intuit quickbooks.

welcome back to "morning joe."

7:37 in the morning. the sun is up over new york city. the governor of the state of new york, kathy hochul, is expected to announce an end to the state's indoor mask mandate today, allowing the mandate to expire this week without renewal. it is unclear whether governor hochul will decide to extend the school mask mandate, also set to expire in two weeks. virginia state senate is expected to vote today on a measure to end school mask mandates by july. nearly half of the senate's democrats signalled support yesterday for the amendment. after weeks of pushing back against an executive order from the governor to do just that. glenn youngkin gave parents the power to override school district policy and choose for themselves whether their children wear masks. it is temporarily blocked, pending the result of a lawsuit from seven virginia school boards. the measure is supposed to lift the measure in july, a youngkin aide said the governor may end

an emergency clause to end it as soon as this month. mika? now the latest from the january 6th select committee. the panel has learned that on the morning of the capitol riot, then president donald trump attempted to reach vice president mike pence by phone but was not able to until early in the afternoon. nbc news reports that according to the panel's subpoena to ivanka trump, which cited testimony from general keith kellogg, the president told pence in the call he didn't have the courage to make tough decisions and that he was count counting on pence to, quote, do the right thing. a source familiar with the talks said a ten-minute talk with ohio congressman jim jordan and trump occurred because the president asked to be connected to jordan's cell phone. nbc news has also learned the panel's investigators are examining protests and demonstrations as far back as a year before the capitol riot in

an effort to identify a broader network of planning for the attack. the focus includes covid lockdown protests, armed demonstrations in state capitols, and groups confronting racial justice protesters. let's bring in heather mcgee into the discussion. her book "the sum of us: what racism costs everyone and how we can prosper together" is out in paperback. you wrote, quote, the lie of the stolen election is not just a wild fantasy. it is anchored in our long history of zero sum racial hierarchy. that's where you'll find the big lie's racial common sense. of course, the winner of the white vote is the legitimate president. votes cast by people of color are, by definition, taking something rightful. white voters. the elaborate conspiracy theory, what's needed to say this

without actually saying it, seems plausible to 50 million people only because of the long-standing stereotype that people of color are inveterate criminals. to believe the big lie, you have to think that it's just as safe to assume that black and brown people are criminals committing fraud as it is to assume that they are eligible citizens exercising their civic duty. heather, if you can break that down for us and how that plays into the big lie, and also the long run-up, as some would say, to the january 6th insurrection. >> well, thank you so much, mika. you know, i finished writing "the sum of us" in november 2020. election results were clear, but so much hadn't happened. so for the paperback, i decided to write an additional chapter that would look at how the core themes in "the sum of us," the zero sum racial hierarchy, what president biden talks a lot about now. this idea, this fear that

there's only a little bit of good to go around, and that progress for colored people have to come at white people's expense. facebook messages and testimony was studied, and the fear, the fear that more is and more people of color in the united states means fewer rights for white people was the common denominator of the people who were sort of egged on to try to overturn the election. that's really what we're seeing across the board, is this sense of zero sum fear about voting. that, of course, it's a sense that if we can't have a multi -- if we have a multi-racial democracy, that, somehow, that's not in the interest of white people. you know, i like to remind folks that this fear, the sense of dominance, that the only way to co-exist is to dominate is not at all grounded in reality.

when black people in communities where they are the majority, you know, get into leadership in congress or in city councils, you know, they usually vote on education and health care and, you know, paving roads. you know, it's not a racial revenge fantasy. but if you turn on, you know, fox news, if you turn on conservative radio, that's all you're hearing over and over and over again, this fear mongering, right? they're coming for you, your way of life. the problem is that that has created the mainstreamingviolen. if you've been told that you're being threatened by some hostile enemy over and over again, is it no surprise now that a plurality of republicans, not january 6th folks, republican voters think that violence may be necessary to quote, unquote, preserve the american way of life. that's what's dangerous. >> so there's a lot to say about changes on the right in terms of

how race is discussed. and what about how progressives talk about race? >> yeah. so in my book, the overall message is that, ultimately, racism has a cost for everyone. we want to make sure that as we are advancing racial justice, that we're not accidentally slipping into this zero sum paradigm ourselves, right? by only focusing on the material benefits of a racist structure to the people at the top of that racial structure. because my argument throughout "the sum of us," is one of the main reasons why all americans, or most americans, don't have nice things, right -- and by nice things, i don't mean drive-through specials. i mean universal child care and a well-funded school in every neighbor and world-class infrastructure in the country, whose infrastructure used to be the envy of the world, is this phenomenon i call drained pool

politics. the sense we used to invest in our public and our people. that helped to build the greatest middle class the world had ever seen. excuse me, new york city. [ horns honking ] but that sense of the public being something to celebrate fell apart once the public became integrated in the wake of the civil rights movement. we saw a decline of public infrastructure, a willingness of elites to neglect the basic needs of the average american family, black, white, and brown. people can come together to find common solutions of common problems. much of the build back better agenda illustrates the list of nice things that would be smart investments, that would put this country back on top in so many ways. >> hey, heather. this is jonathan lemire. i want to pick up on that thread. the idea that joe biden came to office as president and said, we need to prove governments can still work, democracies work, so

we can do big, good things. certainly, the administration got a lot of stuff done. the build back better act, you know, remains stalled. part of -- there's also this -- concurrently, there is this idea that the nation is in this crisis right now, the pandemic. crisis used to be unifying measures for the u.s. now, they're not. we're only more divided and polarized. how can that change? how can the nation, which can't agree on the same facts, do big, good things together? >> that's the million dollar question. i think we need to do a few things. one, we need to remember that even though so much of this, you know, just incredibly anti-social activity that we're seeing on the far right, you know, has the sort of rubbernecking sort of car crash effect on us, right? we want to pay attention to it and understand, how could you threaten to blow up a school board meeting because your kid has to wear a mask a few hours a day, right? what is going on there? why are you so opposed to things that could protect your fellow

american? that's still not the majority, right? 70% of americans received a shot. 70% of americans agree masks are necessary when the cdc says they're necessary. even these laws that would fundamentally silence a large majority of the true american history, that would render or students ignorant of the land on which they live, that would make us more easily manipulated by propaganda, these attack on honest education, they're passing in states with gop rule but they're not popular. the vast majority of americans believe that we should teach all of american history, both the struggle and the overcoming. so i think we've got to, a, shine a spotlight on those moments, on those people, on those trends that are showing the best of who america can be. resist the temptation to sort of inflate what's going on in our most anti-social quarters. and to call out who is really

profiting from the anti-social behavior, right? it is ultimately, if you look at, you know, who is funding so many, what it is stop the steal or the anti-honest education bills, it is a codery of right-wing billionaires who are ultimately playing their long game of trying to shrink government so they can keep more and more profits to themselves and not invest in the public. ultimately, it's on what they depend. >> heather mcgee, thank you very much for being on this morning. her book, "the sum of us: what racism costs everyone and how we can prospect together," it's out now in paperback with some updates. we dive back into the high stakes diplomacy happening right now in eastern europe, as russian warships are now in the black sea for military drills. six warships yesterday sailed from the mediterranean to the black sea where they will take part in military drills. this comes as presidential

advisers from russia, ukraine, france, and germany will meet in berlin tomorrow to discuss the next steps. joining us now, deputy national security adviser john finer. first of all, are we confident that russia is pretty much surrounded here, in terms of its encroachment on ukraine, its threats toward ukraine? and, if so, is there a strategy, is there a plan to sort of pull russia out of its corner? what is the strategy? >> well, thanks, mika. what you've just described in your opening here are really the two tracks that we are pursuing in trying to address this situation. one is russia's continued buildup, which we are responding to in a number of ways, by telling russia in very direct terms that they will face severe costs if they continue down the path of military escalation, and showing total unity and resolve with our allies, as well as deploying u.s. forces, and we

believe eventually nato forces, to nato front line states to ensure support for allies. should russia choose to avoid what we think would be a costly mistake of a military intervention, there's the dill diplomatic partners and allies meeting with the ukrainians and russians in europe, shows the door is still opened should russia choose to do it. everything on the ground and at sea that we see is say that are continuing down the path of escalation. >> what is the assessment among national security staff in the white house as to why russia is behaving in such a brazen fashion? >> reporter: well, i think on some level you take what the rugs are saying at face value. they say they have fundamental concerns about the security, architecture in europe. that they feel to some extent threatened by steps that other states are taking. we do not believe that any of

this architecture, the nato alliance threatens russia in any meaningful way. we believe nato is a defenseful alliance. we do not believe it is in anyway threatened by ukraine. we believe if russia feels this way, shea should address this diplomatically. not by destabilizing and decreasing europe with its military buildup and potentially with a military invasion. >> hey, john, good morning. great to see you. new reporting this morning that russian commanders had flown to belarus in order to oversee some military drills there, there will be two key dates on the calendar right here. there are military exercises ongoing and, of course, the winter olympics drops to a close february 20th. there is a sense putin would wait until that's over for fear of upsetting xi jing ping in chosen in upstaging those games. my time table, how long do you have a sense he can keep these levels of forces and troops at

the border? is there a certain window to act one way or another? how do you wait him out? >> reporter: it's a good question. we said a buildup of troops arrayed on the perimeter of ukraine, they could take action any time. it doesn't mean today, tomorrow, necessarily. it means it could be and we need to be prepared. the belarus buildup as you referenced is an important part of that analysis. in terms of how long they could maintain this posture, i don't believe they are under intense pressure to draw down any time soon for reasons related to resource constraints or anything else. we think they can maintain this posture for a period. now over the much longer term, this gets costly for russia. but we believe we are now in the window where they could take action, which is why the diplomacy is so intense and we are so focused on trying to find another path. >> and we will be watching closely. deputy national security adviser, thank you very much for coming on this show to update us. up next, new developments on

the push to ban law-makers from trading stocks, a powerful law-maker who once opposed the measure is now reportedly on board. we'll explain next on "morning joe." we'll explai i see them bloom fr me and you ♪ (music) joe. so i think to myself ♪ ♪ oh what a wonderful world ♪ at vanguard, you're more than just an investor, you're an owner with access to financial advice, tools and a personalized plan that helps you build a future for those you love. vanguard. become an owner. as a struggling actor, vanguard. i need all the breaks that i can get.

at liberty butchumal- cut. liberty biberty- cut. we'll dub it. liberty mutual customizes your car insurance so you only pay for what you need. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

. some breaking news this morning from republican i punch bowl's jake sherman who tweets speaker nancy pelosi is moving to ban stock trading on capitol hill. congresswoman zoe lofgren is reportedly working through options and is suggesting suggestions to leadership. this is big news this morning, jonathan, do we know more about this, at this point? >> it's complicated legislation to draft. kudos to our friends at punch bowl for noting it. speaker pelosi previously opposed things like this she is supporting stocks that have

momentum. it's something that has support on both sides of the aisle. democrats and republicans support this. certainly a new light was shined on this issue in the early reports of the pandemic when there were reports they were trading healthcare and stocks when they recognized we were about to hit this global crisis. there does seem to be momentum to get this done. they still have issues to clear thorny ones. it feels there is momentum here and it feels like an election area winner for both parties. >> the new york sometimes i times columnist tom freeman and transportation secretary pete buttigieg will also be our guest. plus. >> the republican party's whitewashing of the insurrection isn't just a pathetic capitulation to donald trump and his big lie. it's a dangerous revelation of the mindset of the leadership of america's republican party. >> majority whip dick durbin speaking on the senate floor

yesterday. he joins us live. we are back in two minutes. your eyes! compare hundreds of travel sites at once. kayak. search one and done. age is just a number. and mine's unlisted. try boost® high protein with 20 grams of protein for muscle health. versus 16 grams in ensure high protein. for immune support. boost® high protein.

there are some days that nothing can prepare you for. but being ready— it's about how you react. so when new challenges come up, you find a new way forward. when you meet other people facing what you faced, you start a business dedicated to helping them. and after you've achieved all that, you take on what's next.

. >> it's the top of the hour. it's turning out to be a pretty morning in washington. >> beautiful, isn't it? >> as we launch into the third hour of morning joe. welcome back. it's wednesday, february 9th. pretty day. the latest from capitol hill with the second-ranking democrat dick durbin. he chairs the judiciary committee, which plays a major role in the process to fill the supreme court. he is also still working on expanded infrastructure, something pete buttigieg is hammering home. the cabinet secretary joins our conversation in just a moment. plus a full recap of the oscar nominations and what could be a c-change for women in hollywood. how those in their 40s are stepping into powerful new

roles. but first, more on the white house' effort to unite the free world against vladimir putin's aggression. joining us now, new york time's pulitzer prize winner tom freeman. >> tom, it's great to have you with us. you're suggesting we may have missed the most important part of joe biden's statements about vladimir putin. what are we missing? what do we need no focus on? >> well, the point i was making, joe, is that just on a side and by the press conference last week, he noted that russia's tundra, basically, is melting. and that's going to be a much more long-term security interest for russia. it's potentially the whole world if russia's tundra melts and releases all that methane. you know, i was trying to get to the point, joe, that putin's interested in spheres of influence and what not. but you know, mother nature, she's got all the spheres of

influence and ultimately, he's financial to have to tend to a whole set of issues that will force him or the next leader of russia to decide, do i want to be a resistance leader? do i want to build my authority on resisting the west, nato, whatever? i will basically be someone who builds authority by making russian workers, young people, educational opportunities and russia's environment more resilient? >> we know, tom, you focus so much and spend so much of your time trying to better understand middle challenges this country is nation and the world is facing. we find ourselves, though, in a very difficult position geopolitically. we have to figure out how to deal with china and we have to figure out how to deal with russia in a way that we can all work together on averting an environmental crisis and there is just no two ways about it, and so it's going to require

political touch in the years and decades to come. >> well, you know, joe, this -- there's probably better or worst times to be secretary of state. this is one of the worst. because so many problems. are you dealing basically not with strength but with weakness and managing weakness is just like hell on wheels. so i have a lot of sympathy for biden on that, i think with russia, you know, i have been thinking, joe, lately that maybe what we should say to putin is forget ukraine and nato. we'd like to invite you into nato on one condition that you hold a free and fair election monitored by international supervisors and let them, putin, reject that and say to his people, boy, we could have averted this war, but i wouldn't have an election monitored by, you know, international election supervisors. i don't want with the thing i am afraid of here is we go to war in ukraine, in america's case,

indirectly, because we are not going to war there. in order to avoid doing something we sponsor no intention of doing yaeng anyways. there was no interest in getting into nato. i think putins concern is not nato. it's ukraine and the european, ukraine joining free marks and free democracies that would stand every day as a critique of putin's russia. i think that's real issue for putin. >> tom, as you've watched putin over the last decade or more, he's been elevated by his meddling in the 2016 election. he was the center of the election. he got western leaders to sit at that long table opposite of him and have these conversations. this is what he enjoys, sit not, being on the world stage, being in the conversation, being

elevated. if that's true, what is his end game? is it actually war and to let this play out and to be at the center of the world's conversation? >> reporter: that's the $64 million dollar question. we don't know. what we know is russia's economy has been in the tank for almost a decade now. he's got a presidential election coming up that he has to win because putin can't really retire gracefully on the black sea. he's stolen way too much money. for him it's a rule or die situation. at the same time i was someone who opposed nato expansion in the early '90s, because i thought we had an opportunity to bring russia into the doctrine nations. but at the same time so much of this feels to me like the kind of aggressive nationalism that leaders often time around adopt around the world when their domestic political base and economy is failing at home. so i'm ready to be sensitive to

putin's security needs. i don't think he should be in nato. but this is not a way to go about it at all. in fact, this is the way he's chosen go about it really suggests to me that, you know, this is about domestic politics. putin is a guy who is looking for did he go myty always in all the wrong places. >> hey, tom, jonathan le mere. certainly putin hosted european leaders. by he mooid made the trip, the striking image with xi jinping. talk to me about that relationship putin and xi and what support china could be offering russia during this crisis and beyond? how strong is that alliance? >> i think it's not very strong at all. because the one thing that the chinese, you know, are not in favor of is basically countries seizing other countries, or taking a bite out of other countries.

that would come back to haunt them. russia has a long hostility to the west, this long hostility and fear of china is ten times more you know what it is to the west. basically russia's eastern pole, splashing of the country is depopulated. it has relatively full of people. china is burst with people. they make things other than cafia and dolls and that is not a natural alines, if anything, just the opposite. if there was a nix into china, if we could pack up with the patch up with the russians, there will be key players in the iran negotiation, i think that's still the diplomatic play. a war in ukraine would be a disaster for everyone, but most of all for putin.

because ukraine is a country of 40 million people and they since the 1990s have been trying to become independent. there would be a lot of body backs tragically coming back to moscow if they go to war. it would not be a cake war. >> i love your column on neil young and liz cheney, thank you for sticking your neck out. you say this bud's for you. it's so fascinating watching the hypocrisy of the social warriors on the right who say, oh my god, how dare somebody complain about joe rogan? how dare they suggest people can sell spotify accounts, when these are the same people 15, 20 years ago, were screeching about the dixie chicks, the same people that were enraged that sousa's family, and people were trying to get books taken out of

libraries all over the country. it is to say it is rich that they're suggesting that americans should speak out if they're offended by speech is again, it's so hypocritical. >> you know, joe, just exactly what i have been trying to say, having a can sell culture on the left or the right, i would not advocate as a journalist, throwing joe rogan off a platform or anybody else right now. i praised neil young for calming him out. the real issue, i wrote about in my column this morning is we are living in a day where everybody has rights and nobody has responsibilities. it's like an epidemic. everybody is claiming rights, but what got lost and is so pernicious to me about what rogan is doing when he is advancing misinformation about vaccines is what is actually it is doing to the doctors and nurse who's have been on the front lines. one day i was completely missing

his interview, worried to the bake data, if are you vaccinated, you are fully vaccinated and boosted. you are 20 times, 17 times, all these statistics less likely to be hospitalized let alone die. when you ignore that and end up in the hospital and you do it over and over again, we do it on a national scale, we have crushed the nursing industry if this country. two-thirds of nurses have expressed their desire to get out of nursing. every hospital now is scrambling because their nurses are overworked. many leave and go on to become traveling nurses. that requires those who stay at work overtime even more. why not think about them for a second? especially because so many people before they die say they wish i had gotten vaccinated. the only one that has to listen to that is the nurse. >> tom, think about the world that we grew up in, i was born

after jfk was inaugurated. still those words from his inauguration rang i think through a lot of american's childhood, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country. when we were kids, we saw the close-up shot of those nasa rockets going into space. the country coming together. you know coming together in a cold war. our parents grew up at a time where there was rationing to win a world war ii, where everybody had to come together, enjoying the great depression and that's now evolved into i'll say it on the left and on the right, just these frail people who, you know, they're so consumed by this hyper individualism, which, of course, the right always attacked the hippy culture. the late 1960s for this hyper

individualism. and now, as kevin williamson writes, the -- it's conservative who's are now having their quote hippy moment. hyperindividualism. do what you want to do. no common good. nothing that's spelled out even in the preamble of the constitution. there is nothing about the common good. it's all hyperindividualism. i have my right to do what i want to do. i don't give-a-damn about anybody else's, what they're saying. yeah, maybe i get five vaccinations to go to school and i gave my kids five vaccinations because that was for the common good. but now post-trump, i don't have to do anything. i don't have to care about my neighbor. i don't have to care about anybody. that is what you are writing about and it's something that is tearing this country at its seams. it's unamerican. it goes against 240 years of american tradition and custom.

>> you know, joe, i ask myself the question you are asking precisely when i grew up in minneapolis and had a wonderful time of that city. even though there was that wonderfulness, i know, it covered a lot of racism. here's what i ask myself. you know, really, why is that going on? and you know one of my life-long sayings, joe, there is no place like home. no place like home. we live in a country today, joe, where so many people are asking, whose country is this anyway? i don't feel at home in my own home. i think that's because we are going through multiple transitions, going from a minority, from a majority, white country to a minority dominated country of different minorities. that's a huge transition for people. we are going through a cultural transition around issues of gender and we're going through a huge technolodge cam transition. as a result there, all these people in america today who just

don't feel at home in their own country and when you don't feel at home, when you threaten someone's sense of home, it's like stepping on anent hill of reddants. there is nothing that makes people more viscerally angry than the sense of you are taking away my sense of being home n. a giant sensation, we have to go from a country of many one to many we. a richer form of pleuralism. i believe we are right in the middle of that transition right now. actually, i'm optimistic. i was busy in school in minnesota a couple years ago that gone incredibly diverse. i was asking the principles, do have you diversity classes for these kids? he said, freeman, please, what the kids tells us, we got it. because juan is dating jol. the kids are growing one this. we are the generation transition between that and where we need to be.

i think ultimately we will get through it, we have in the past. where we are this troop -- transition everything you do makes me not feel at home is very, very volatile. >> out of many one, it is everybody's country, blue have been here 400 years or whether you are being sworn in today. >> yeah. >> as an american sid, it's everybody's country. that's what makes this country so beautiful. that's why people like albert einstein came to this country. this is why in part we won world war ii, why we have destroyed the rest of the world in silicon valley and the tech race, tom. this shour freedom. again, this is what republicans used to think. you look at robert reagan, his farewell address, reagan said, if we stop welcoming immigrants to this country, we will become old. we will become tired. we will lose the very essence of

what makes us america. >> it's our secret sauce. the fact that anyone can come here and start a new company, start a new idea. it revives us. by the way, the lower skilled end and the higher skilled end, joe. we benefit enormously from both. but it takes people to stand up and defend that now and remain us of that. the only one thing going on that strikes me is maybe i'll pose that i learned in the middle east, there is one good thing about extremists, joe, they don't know when to stop. i feel with this rnc over the weekend, mcconnell has come out against it. i think they're a party that's led by marjorie taylor green, the republican party. that's a party that won't know where to stop. maybe they will bump up against their limits as well. we will see, i am hopeful. >> tom freeman, thank you so much for being on the show, we appreciate it. joining us now chairman of the judiciary committee democrat

make majority whip senator dick durbin of illinois. tom was speaking about how someone needs to stand up and defend this country sand it core values. senator mitch mcconnell yesterday has blunt, plain, spoken words about the january 6th insurrection. do you think that will be important as the january 6th committee tries to close in on the truth about what happened that day? >> well, i think so. let me start by saying that was a wonderful exchange between joe and tom freeman. every political party, politician, should listen to it. they touched some of the elements essential for bringing this country together. i was heartened yesterday when mitch mcconnell spoke the obvious. the obvious is the party shouldn't be cen shsureing liz cheney and adam kinsinger of illinois and should act knowledge the obvious, that was an insurrectionist mob that came down on this capitol january 6th. it was not a political discourse

by any stretch. maybe it's the indication that the heart and soul of the republican party is moving ever so slightly towards sensibility. the ship is leaving the sink rat and we are leave ac new party with new values that reflect abraham lincoln, the republican leadership which we've seen over the last two decades. >> good morning, it's jonathan lemire. obviously, the global headlines, ominous reports from u.s. defense intelligence analysts over the last few days saying russia has 70% of the man power and equipment it need to go in. if it goes in, kyiv could be toppled in a matter of days. give us your sense of the six here and are you heartened by the moves the administration is saying, the biden administration is taking to shore up alliances to try to blunt putin's aggression? >> i was in a meeting, a

bipartisan meeting, we had senators from both political parties, mitch mcconnell and chuck schumer. the reason for the visit was to show solidarity with nato and meet with the president and demonstrate that. joe biden has brought nato back together to stop the aggression of vladimir putin. i think the shutened diplomacy by macron in moscow is a positive sign. i can't believe putin will go through with this madness, he prepares to do so on the border. he has to realize if he wants to be respected in the body of functioning nations, what senior not a tool you use regularly or a threat of war in your tool chest. that seems to be his recourse to every challenge in russia. >> senator durbin, i want to ask you a question about your role, supreme court nomination process, where it stands right now, obviously, president biden made that campaign promise he would put a black woman on the

supreme court, judges chiles, drirg and brown seem to be the front in the runners. can you offer what the president is thinking about here? layout the process, how long do you expect it to take? >> well, i can tell you, we've seen those three niems i names and looked at them carefully. each of these black women have achieved things in life which very few have ever achieved. they are the first in their class in so many respects and that tells me that we're going to get a remarkable nominee. but i am not confining it to thosely the. the president may have others he is interviewing and considering. we have urged him to do it in a thoughtful way but in a timely way. we'd like to get this done before the easter recess, if the president reports a nominee to us soon, it will make it a little easier to achieve. >> do you expect, senator, to get republican votes? judge brown last june got a

small handful of them. have you talked to your republican colleagues, people like lisa murcowski, lindsey graham if they are opened to the president's nominee? >> it's in the best interest of the senate as well as the supreme court to have bipartisan support, particularly the first black woman on the court. i haven't ruled that out. i don't think many of my republican friends roll it out either. they are open mind, ask the important questions. that's our responsibility f. we can achieve a bipartisan roll call, it will be a step forward in moving us in the right direction. >> i am curious, senator, where are we on voting rights? we were, of course, reminded this past week with the supreme court decision regarding alabama, a desperate need to pass the john lewis voting rights in the house and pass a similar bill in the senate. now do we get there from here?

>> i can tell you the disappointment i felt. i sense it in your comments, the supreme court voted 50-4, roberts joining the three liberals on the court and basically decided they would not stay the alabama congressional map, which was found to be discriminatory against black voters. the panel decided that, two of the three judges were trump appointees and they reached that conclusion and yet the supreme court by a 5-4 decision with no explanation decided not to stay any implementation of that map. it's an argument, the strongest possible argument for restoring the voteing rights act and reversing the heller decision. unfortunately, two democrats voted against our rules change and stopped us in our tracks. we shouldn't quit. this is a fundamental right to vote in a democracy. >> and unfortunately, the court moving away from basic voting

rights. roberts' court traditionally deferred to states in matters like this. no more, which makes your work all the more important on an issue that every single republican voted for 15 years ago. senator dick durbin, as always, thank you so much for being with us. we greatly appreciate it. >> thank, joe. thank you. and the nominations for the 94th annual academy awards were announced yesterday. the "power of the dog" leads the pack including best picture. the other best picture nominees are king richard, west side story, drive my car, don't look up, koda, dune, licorice pizza. the "power of the dog" jane campion the first woman ever nominated twice in that category. lady gaga's film "house of gucci" was left off the

nominee's list, all but one category, best hair and makeup. also snubbed the arethra franklin biopic "respect" leaving jennifer hudson out of the best actress and song categories. beyonce and billy eilish earned their first oscar nominations in best original song category. the awards ceremony is sunday march 27ing. >> much to get through here. we did mention quest love's documentary soul. yeah, i hope he wins that. we are homers there, rooting for the home team. it's so extraordinary. i know that you have, obviously, like me, are you blown away by belfast. >> yes. >> what an absolutely beautiful, your interview, was so great and

touching. but this is kind of a strange year, right? >> yeah. >> because people aren't going to the movies because of the pandemic and so, i saw belfast at home. i saw dune at home, an extraordinary, actually movie. it's much better than past efforts. there are some really good movies here. king richard, same with that, gra what a great film. these are things that everybody kind of saw at home and are you going to, you kind of get the feeling that a lot of americans haven't seen most of these movies. so they will be watching academy awards going, huh, what? >> yeah. that's been true the last several years, certainly accelerated by the pandemic when people aren't going to the movie theaters. they didn't go out to see it. but it is a great collection of movies. as you said, i thought "belfast"

was one of the best movies of the year. i would have liked to see jamie dornin and katrina bell, they were great. best actor, you only get five in each category. you can make a case for 20 people. just absolute a-list heavyweights in both of these categories, all deserving of nominations. lady gaga is shut out, also jennifer hudson shut out for aretha franklin bio pick. i would say we are bias because we love the man. but bradley cooper was phenomenal in nightmare alley and licorice pizza. you could make the case he was nominated. he was so good, her essential ali, another for the movie "swan song" could have been nominated. there are only five slots. great performances. are you right, it's an interesting mat smattering of

small movies. the public at large hasn't seen most of them. >> leak west side story, i heard spielberg's remake at least from friends who i didn't expect to like said it was absolutely wonderful, exciting movie. that's something i haven't had a chance to go out to see. but the numbers have been disappointed for west side story. people aren't going to the movies as much as they have in the past. hopefully, they will. as we return to normalcy over the next month or two. but it's going to be an interesting year looking at the academy awards and seeing who wins. >> yeah, people went to the movies to see spiderman, that was about it. it is a different time right now. this is the pandemic accelerated it. it is a trend, the oscar ratings have fallen off.

these are wonderful films. they're smaller films, people haven't seen. it doesn't drive the same sort of interest around here. i will speak of myself, a father of two young kids and the pandemic, the only one i saw, don't look up, i thought was already. but i need to see "belfast" and some of the others. i do think it's right now movies don't trigger the same widespread conversation that frankly precedes television shows. that's what people are home walking and talking about. >> very good point. still ahead on ""morning joe", 80s why hollywood discovered the middle-aged woman. the author of that piece will join us to does her take. how they are talking about discrim fakes, reverend al sharpton with his meeting with roger goodell. you are watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. goodell. goodell. you are watching "morning joe.

dove 0% aluminum deodorant is kinder on skin and now it's refillable for life. we'll be right back. from the beginning, newday has been the mortgage company for enlisted veterans, helping thousands buy a home, get cash, or lower their mortgage payments. we start by asking one simple question: how can we help that veteran? with more ways to help more veterans, no bank,

no lender, no one knows veterans like newday usa.

with unitedhealthcare medicare advantage plans, there's so much to take advantage of. like $0 copays on virtual visits... - wow! - uh-huh. ...$0 copays on primary care visits... ...and lab tests. - wow. - uh-huh. plus, $0 copays on tier 1 & tier 2 prescription drugs. - wow. - uh-huh. unitedhealthcare medicare advantage plans. including the only plans with the aarp name. most plans have a $0 premium. take advantage now. wow!

reverend sharpton is with us on set, he met with nfl commissioner roger goodell yesterday in the lawsuit against the lead, brian flores, former dolphin coach fired from his job. nfl jobs are full, one new black coach hired lovee smith he had previous experience, coming back, the houston texans hired him. blien flores' attorneys put out a statement, good on the texans for hiring him. but effectively it should have been me. brian flores' attorney said. what was your message to roger goodell and what do you hope to expect going forward? >> i sent auto a letter to the naacp and melanie campbell asking for a meeting. over the weekend, he called. we met on monday virtually for over an hour. my message to him was that the first, the rooney rule has

worked. we have not been able to see a quality increase in terms of black ownership, which is still zero. there is no black owners in 32 clubs in the history of the nfl and we only have added that point monday now on wednesday we have two black coaches so there has to be a different rule. i think mark drove that home. my point was, you have to remember, as we are asking you for time tables and goals, concrete time tables and goals, you are dealing with teams that are financed by public money and we laid it out. these teams are not just being underwritten by billionaires, municipalities and states are investing money in these teams, in these stadiums and that if you guys cannot figure out the way to represent the diversity of the taxpayers that is paying for your stadiums and paying for

your games, then we're going into these city councils and state legislatures and have them vote to remove their money. we have the right to say, we're not going to finance a league that we can't own a team and we can't coach a team. you figure it out. and i think that was the message that really got to him as well as we will go to advertisers. will you have your super bowl sunday. you won't have the same super bowl next year if you can't figure this out. we will go to advertisers and say, you want to advertise with them, are you going to face our campaign against you in our community. colin kaepernick took a courageous stand is still not given a job. we're not going to see brian flores out there like that. we will not see him dragged through the legal hoops, a long arbitration. we want to see goals and time tables. we're willing to work with you or against you. it's your choice. but you cannot keep one team is 100% public funding. you can not keep using public

funds and not have a fair kind of diversity plan that is concrete. >> coming up, hollywood discovers the middle-aged woman. our next guest explains how stars in their 40s are finally getting interesting roles. that conversation is next on "morning joe." that conversation is next on i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire "morning joe." is now a good time for a flare-up? enough, crohn's! for adults with moderate to severe crohn's or ulcerative colitis, stelara® can provide relief, and is the first approved medication to reduce inflammation on and below the surface of the intestine in uc. you, getting on that flight? back off, uc! stelara® may increase your risk of infections, some serious, and cancer. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you have an infection, flu-like symptoms, sores, new skin growths,

have had cancer, or if you need a vaccine. pres, a rare, potentially fatal brain condition, may be possible. some serious allergic reactions and lung inflammation can occur. lasting remission can start with stelara®. janssen can help you explore cost support options. imagine a world where we have the tools janssen can help you explore to sell things that mean something. like a sunscreen made for melanated skin that blends in. proof that things don't have to be the way that they've always been. the world's been waiting for what you do. [inspirational soul music] [inspirational soul music] [inspirational soul music]

we're hoping things will pick up by q3. yeah...uhhh... [children laughing] doug? [ding] never settle with power e*trade. it has easy-to-use tools and some of the lowest prices. get e*trade and start trading today. i'm so glad we could all take this trip together, son yeah. and kayak made getting here so easy- ♪ ♪ here we go. you know i'm a kayak denier! you can't possibly believe kayak compare hundreds of travel sites at once! get out! i will do no such thing. and don't use kayak to fly home, because it's not real! i'm going back to the room. compare hundreds of travel sites at once.

kayak. search one and done.

. >> since 2021, companies have announced investments totaling more than $200 become in domestic manufacturing in america. iconic companies like ford building out production to tesla, the largest vehicle manufacturer, we're seeing the beginnings of an american manufacturing comeback. there is not hyperbeam. this is real. this is genuine. you heard me say all along when i was running, the world is an inflexion point. things are going to change in big ways. thisone of those transition

moments. >> president biden celebrated a move by an australian electric vehicle-charging company to build its first factory on u.s. soil. the tridium company is going to come to tennessee and create 11,000 electric vehicle chargers per year. joining us to talk more about this, secretary transportation pete buttigieg. is this opening the door to more, secretary pete? >> we think so. we're really encouraged to see not only more and more electric manufacturing of the vehicles in the u.s., also the chargers will you use to fill them up. you know this goes back to one of the fundamental things the president has been talking about from day one, which is made in america. we got to make more thing in america. obviously, a child of the industrial mid-west, i have always felt that way. it's exciting to see we talk about u.s. auto and auto-related

manufacturing, it's not just nostalgia, it's getting to the future. the future is clearly electric. yesterday's announcement, 500 new jobs in tennessee, making ev chargers is one more example. i think we will see a lot more next to the investments int president's law. >> willie geist, good morning, you got to the answer in my question. that sounds like to a lot of people working in the country like you are closing my old way of life. you are closing my town, shuttering my factory, which we've seen so much across the mid-west over the last couple of decades, how do you get across the point this progress towards electric vehicles and clean technology means more jobs? >> yeah, look, i literally grew up in the shadow of a giant auto factory in south bend, indiana, the reason that factory wasn't making cars anymore is the country hasn't kept with the times, the studebaker car, by

the '60s they were falling behind. here in 2020, to tweet and win, we have to make sure we are ready for the electric vehicle revolution. it's happening with or without us. it is happening around the world. the question is, will it be led by china or the united states? that's why we have to make these investments. by the way, it's not just electric cars and pickup trucks. also the heavier-duty vehicles. one thing as you can imagine we're excited about trains, train sets, transit cars. we didn't have much manufacturing industrial ase to clean and transit heavy equipment. we weren't buying that much. now that's changed, that is a demand signal that tells american manufacturers, there will be a lot of business if you tool up and hire up to get a work force ready to do that across the 2020s. >> jonathan lemire, great to see you again, inflation is a challenge and probably the

biggest political crisis right now for the bind administration, prices up in numerous sectors, including food and other things and part of the inflation problem can be linked to the supply chain issue. can you give us an update right now where things stand? >> yes. so a lot of good work in areas like the ports. that's part of why the ports are able to move the most goods they ever had last season. but this continues to be an issue with the pandemic this continues to be an issue with the infrastructure upgrades that 23 are now finally able to do, thanks to the law. let's me sigh one thing that ties back to our first discussion people ask me when will the supply cane vulnerabilities end? probably the best answer is they will end when we make things in the u.s. when you want that chip, that car, whatever it is, you don't have to wait for it sitting on a boat in coin. this is exactly why the president has been relentless in pushing buy america, made in america.

the bills sound technical and the senate xournt part about u.s. manufacturing -- counterpart about u.s. manufacturing are geared to this. building the industrial base. if everything we need is coming on a boat from somewhere else, of course, we will be vulnerable to supply chain issues, no matter how good the courts are. >> all right. secretary pete buttigieg, thank you very much for being on the show this morning. it's always good to see you. up next, flipping the script opening up more roles for women in their 40s, keeping it here on "morning joe." .

nobody overtly tells you, but there are signs. you know how sally field was tom hank's love interest and then was his mom? >> or you might get a rom com where you are competing with another woman. i just had an audition for mrs.

claus. >> i read for that part. >> i did too. >> who got that? >> j. lo. >> she'll be good. or you go to a movie set, you go to wardrobe and the only thing that they have for you to wear are long sweaters like cover you up head to toe. >> or the poster of your movie is picture of a kitchen. >> and with these vague titles like whatever it takes or she means well. >> she means well. the sketch comedy show "inside amy schumer" with its take on the kinds of roles available to actresses as they get older. but a new piece explains why this could be changing. quote, at 20, women play four-fifths of leads, hollywood is very interested in them at their nubire prime. fast forward to 40 and that statistic is reversed. men utterly dominate the juiciest parts. and the split then hovers around

80/20 until death. thanks to the streaming wars, stars in their 40s are finally getting interesting roles, a chance not to be pigeon holed as the wife or mom or conversery the career woman free of domestic responses. the author of that piece ellen lewis is joining us now. also with us the founder of all-in together. lauren leader. >> this is such a fascinating topic. it seems not too long ago it that rene russo was getting headlines like she was 40. and starring in a movie. at the time the headlines might as well have said rene russo from mars. and she is a romantic lead in a movie. things have changed so much. >> yeah, and i think a lot of that is about tv. it has really been the case that you have these brilliantactors who have been able to move between roles in film and roles

in television. but tv is very expansive. we make these big sprawling operas and the problem with films has always been that you just have one character at the center. so in the james bond films for example, everything orbits around james bond. so if you have a male character at the center, the women's roles are the mom or the love interest. they have to be at the center of the stories as people have jobs and lives. and these are two things that women have at the same time, but it is something that has taken the industry a long time to catch up with. >> so interesting. i've seen it especially in the online streaming tv shows, i think of a show with women much older than 40 as their characters about who are having, you know, romantic relationships, they have incredible story lines.

and they are seen as multidimensional as any other human being. >> yeah, i think that is the thing that i really wanted to capture in this piece, this idea of the dry decade, the idea that when you are in your 40s, you are too old to be a love interest but too young to be a hag. meryl streep said that the roles she was getting offered were gargoyles. and the bit in the middle which was the mom years has been left out. and that has changed. >> let's look at the nominees. jessica, nicole kidman -- an amazing collection. and i'll ask you must have changed your life to have won that oscar. but they say in many ways, but the doors didn't fly open. it is objectively more difficult for a woman. >> and i think that speaks to

this bigger question that i want to ask helen about, did -- how has the industry really changed. is it greater diversity of older women a reflection of the industry or is it partially that lot of these women have pushed the doors open. you spoke about television. there is a list of dozens now much well-known actresses who have started their own production companies because they couldn't get the roles that they wanted. obviously you look at big little lies and so many of the other shows that have brought back a lot of women's careers. they did them themselves. is this a reflection that the industry is changing or is it that women are really pushing the doors open? >> i think that you are right to talk about the fact that people behind the camera really matter. you have the best director for oscar has been dominated by men and that is finally starting to change. and women do have production companies and so their interest in telling stories about them, this has always been the

argument about representation, is that we're all let's be honest quite interested in ourselves and the things that happen to us are often the things that are most viv individual to us. and if you are a working mom, that is quite an interesting thing too. if you are somebody who has could from a journalistic background, you love watching shows about journalists. mostly so you can complain about all the things that they got wrong. but we bring our own experiences to the things that we write about. and more women behind the camera definitely affects more women in front of the camera. >> and i think olivia colman is a perfect example of this phenomenon. i remember seeing her in the night manager years ago. but what, who is that? she's really good. and then suddenly, you know, she's in "the crown" and she is in "the favorite." and then of course this year "the lost daughter." so suddenly i'm going, olivia

colman is in this, i have to watch it. so we sat down immediately to watch it because of olivia colman. that is something that wouldn't have happened again 10, 15 years ago most likely. >> yeah, as a british person that is quite funny to me because i remember her 20 years ago in a low budget british comedy. and then five years ago she's the queen and now she's hollywood royalty. and that speaks to a big structural change i think in the industry about the fact tv is no longer seen as the poor relation. and that is helped by the fact that writers love tv. there is a great line that says i'm feeling useless like a writer on a tv set. i think the energy in the industry at the moment is really with that. and as you were talking about earlier, also where the audience is. >> we've been talking a lot about the nfl and putting the people in power who can make decisions to hire black

coaches and things like that. same thing for hollywood. are the people who are making the decisions who recognize the strength and the power and box office potential the women you are talking about? >> that is part of it, but there is fundamental economics. there are feminists but a lot of people who are good at looking at the bottom line. and the other thing about the streaming wars, i think movie-going has become a young person's passtime. but what you now have got is mom and dad quite tired at the end of an evening but they will watch a film that has come to them through hbo max or netflix. >> so before we go, lauren, just on the economy side of things, you see some warning signs for women and their role in the economy looking ahead. >> right. and we've been talking about this over the last few minutes. obviously the jobs report this month was extraordinary, 467,000 jobs added. but female unemployment remains

very far from where it was pre-pandemic. we are still down 2.8 million jobs from february 2020. and that will be a problem. and as helen and i were talking about, this is not happening around the world, it is happening in the united states because the u.s. has failed to pass the core infrastructure that enables women to work and other countries that have invested in basic things, child care, paid leave, have been able to keep women in the workforce. we have to focus on this because the recovery will be slowed, our economy cannot come back if we are leaving huge numbers of women out of the workforce and keep an eye on those numbers for women of color, they remain exceptionally high and up acceptably so. >> that was a shocking data report, how few women are re-entering the labor force and child care is often at the center of it. thank you both. fascinating conversation. joe and mika, as we close the show, we wish a very happy milestone birthday to our dear friend the great carole king

celebrating this morning. we love her, she is the greatest songwriter who ever lived and we wish her a happy birthday. >> she is so great. incredible songwriter, incredible artist. >> environmentalist. >> and you talk about a woman who was a trailblazer in rock 'n' roll from the start and she just continues as a songwriter, a performer. and she would tell you the most important work she does is fighting for the environment every single day. we love you, carole. happy birthday. >> that does it for us this morning. chris jansing picks up the coverage right now. hi there, i'm chris jansing in for stephanie ruhle. its wednesday, february 9 and we have a lot to cover. breaking news, later this morning new york governor kat