up with us on this friday morning. enjoy the super bowl. have a great weekend. "morning joe" starts right now. 18 devices possessed by secretary clinton she used to do business as secretary. how many of them were turned over to the fbi? none. >> lot of reporting about the national archives and the national archives having concern about former president trump's removal of papers. >> well, i'll look into it. >> would you have any concerns about papers being -- >> i don't know anything about it. i don't know if he did anything, i don't know what the rules are. all right. anything else? >> rules were in 2019, lindsey graham really knew the rules. he was shocked, stunned, deeply saddened by hillary clinton's e-mails. >> deeply saddened. >> but when it comes to donald trump taking top secret documents to florida, along with all of the other reports like putting them in the toilet and

eating them, the senator is quite literally shrugging his shoulders, joe. he just doesn't know the rules. >> yeah, you know, he's denying that. he's denying that about putting it in the toilet. some people say that most of his phone calls with kim jong-un he did while he was on the toilet. i don't know. some people say that. i don't -- i don't say that. >> come on. it is friday morning. it is so early. >> i'm just saying. some people say that, and so this toilet thing, there's a toilet obsession with this guy. i don't understand why. >> joe, stop it. >> you don't understand why. >> stop it. >> you know, no, but kim jong-un, i mean i get -- i don't know. willie, help us out here. >> stop. >> because i don't get what his obsession is. >> yeah, the phone call on the toilet just as a general matter is really offensive. you ever walk into a bathroom say at 30 rom and there's a guy in the stall having a long -- >> yes. >> what are you doing in there? stop it. >> guys, it is too early.

>> a phone call from president trump came to light when he was complaining about toilets and water flow and he said some of the toilets you have to flush 10 or 15 times before it all goes down. perhaps he was having trouble with some of those documents he allegedly attempted to flush. >> exactly. sometimes when he fired people, he would be -- that's where he would go to do it. >> okay. >> no, he was projecting when he said that's how he fired rex tillerson. >> with us we have -- >> no, we have -- we have a lot. i'm just -- mika, i'm just telling you what some people say, that's all i'm telling you. >> i know the game you're playing. >> no, no, but -- but this is -- this classified stuff, willie, is so rich. you have remember, for a year or so with the hillary thing and we were reporting, "the new york times," everybody was reporting it, but the republicans on the hill were like is it classified?

they had like their magnifying glasses out like ellery queen. is that a classified? and they just freaked out. and now they're like, oh, i don't know the rules. i don't know. he literally has classified papers that he took to mar-a-lago that, you know, probably reading on the toilet, and he's got it in mar-a-lago instead of in the white house. now, how in the world could you be upset with hillary clinton and her e-mails and not be upset that this guy has taken america's top secret classified papers to mar-a-lago for bathroom reading? >> yeah, and that's just what we know from media reporting right now. imagine what the select committee, the january 6th committee is going to unearth when it finally does its job and has everything it needs, that the former president of the united states had packed up against the advice of advisers,

had packed up and shipped to mar-a-lago top secret classified documents. this according to new reporting just out this morning. my gosh, in contrast to what hillary clinton did with a home server, which was actually at the center of the 2016 campaign, and came back ten days before the end of the campaign to haunt her and the clinton campaign believes why she lost that campaign ultimately. my god, it is not even comparable. >> which, of course, people in the trump white house did left and right. mika, because i know you want to keep talking about this trump toilet open session. >> no, i really don't. >> here is this. >> people are flushing toilets 10 times, 15 times as opposed to once. >> we won't talk about toilets. you know, that's the only subject we ever talk about is toilets. i don't mention it. >> the headline was trump with the toilets. toilets. >> sinks, right, showers. what goes with a sink and a shower? ten times, right?

ten times. not me, of course, not me, but you. >> i don't say it because every time i say it they only talk about that one because it is sort of gross to talk about, right? so i won't -- i won't talk about the fact that people have to flush their toilet 15 times. >> gross, he's talking about it. yeah, there's just always this weird obsession with the mosquitos and toilets. i don't know why. >> okay. >> but, mika. >> yeah. >> i think at this point we've clarified this issue to the degree that we want to on this show. why don't we see what -- >> i think we can -- >> let's see what our columnist and associate editor for "the washington post" david ignatius thinks about it. >> i think we can put toilet talk aside. david ignatius with us. nbc news capitol hill correspondent garrett haake is

with us and eugene daniels is with us as well. sorry about all of that. >> we had a classified toilet joke. >> oh, my god. david ignatius, please, do not add to this. do not go to him. i'm moving on to the news of the day, but that is funny. i was seeing on twitter like golden toilets. people were having fun with it. okay. two sources tell "the washington post" that some of the white house records retrieved from mar-a-lago by the national archives last month were clearly marked as classified, including some records that were top secret. the records are reportedly being stored in a scif, a place where sensitive information can be held and discussed until justice department officials skid how to move forward. yesterday we reported the national archives has asked the doj to examine donald trump's handling of white house records after retrieving 15 boxes of material from the president's florida residence. and after receiving records that

were ripped up and taped back together. in a statement to "the washington post", a trump spokesperson writes, quote, it is clear that a normal and routine process is being weaponized by anonymous, politically motivated government sources to peddle fake news. the only entity with the ability to credibly dispute this false reporting is national archives and is providing no comment. joe, it is just another kind of little mini scandal in a long line as trump leaves the white house, a trail of them. >> that is the thing, david ignatius, that a, quote, mini scandal, this would be a mini scandal for donald trump. i mean i was on the armed services committee. if either myself as a congress person or anything else on the committee took top secret records and took them from

the -- that we saw at the armed services committee and took them home, especially after we got out of congress, the fbi would come after us. i would guess the department of justice would come after us. they have come after other people who have been charged for taking classified information. ask general david petraeus, ask other people that had classified documents on their computers at home or taken materials home. this would not be a little scandal for a member of congress or a senator who did the same thing. this would -- they would be lawyering up right now, knowing the doj would be coming after them. i guess the question is, does donald trump continue to live by a different standard than even senators and congressmen on capitol hill? >> so that's been the takeaway for me, joe, of this latest set of revelations. he was as sloppy and contemptuous of the rules leaving the white house as he was during his time as

president. you're right. the rules about handling classified information are clear and specific and they're well enforced. there are security officers in every play where classified materials are handled in government, the procedures are elaborate. if you violate them you get a wrist slap or worse. sometimes if it is egregious you do get prosecuted. i think while it sounds nitpicky, he's got this stuff, it isn't in terms of the rules. but to me, joe, it just reminds us of the way he governed, the way he carried himself, the contempt for any kind of rule, including now we know the rules on what you can take out of the white house when you leave as president. >> yeah. one of the big questions that the january 6th committee also is looking at is what was donald trump doing in the hours of the riot on january 6th, of the attack on the capitol, who was he talking to. well, white house records obtained by the committee do not show any phone calls to or from the former president for several hours after his speech on the

elipse dha, including some the panel knows he made with republican lawmakers but just didn't show up in the logs. the committee is aware of calls between trump and at least two lawmakers during the attack, including with minority leader kevin mccarthy. the gap could be because trump was in the habit of using his personal cellphone or the cellphones of people around him. it is unclear whether it could also be the result of incomplete or altered white house records. "the new york times" which first reported this story writes, the sparse call records present a major obstacle to a central element of the panel's work, recreating what mr. trump was doing behind closed doors during the assault on congress by a mob of his supporters. a trump spokesman did not immediately respond to a request for comment. gary, you and leigh ann caldwell confirmed this story, that the calls don't show up on the white house logs. what is the committee looking at now? is it possible those were altered or is it more likely that donald trump, as he was known to do, was using a personal cellphone to make these

calls? >> well, i think the operating assumption is the latter, that donald trump was using either his cellphone or the cellphone of anybody around him who might have just handed him a phone in the moment of crisis. this was, you know, fairly well-known habit of his to talk on his personal cellphone or on the cellphone of anybody else around him when he needed to get hold of somebody. this shows the pieces the committee has and the pieces they still need. you've got the knowledge they have of all of the people who have spoken out publicly or interviews in committee about the conversations they had with the former president. they're going back and saying, wait, this wasn't on the log, this wasn't on the log. there's the possibility the national archives has more material they've not handed over to the committee, so that might fill in the missing pieces. but it does speak to what i think is the biggest challenge, going all the way back to the impeachment here of filling in exactly what the president was doing. i think what is key to the january 6th committee's case, what he wasn't doing during the

attack. liz cheney has talked about this. other members of the committee have talked about this. they really believe he was sitting in the dining room watching television and refusing to engage with any of the people who were trying to tell him to step in and shut this thing down. they need eventually that clear picture of everyone he talked to to prove that point if, indeed, that's what they're going to be able to prove. >> joe. >> and as trump staffers who were actually in there with him on the day of the attempted insurrection, because that's what it was, it is what we will call it here, attempted insurrection. they said that he was watching the television, he was rewinding back to the most violent parts, reveling in the violence his supporters were showing and thrilled they were doing that. it does seem to me, garrett, this should not be much of an obstacle for the january 6th committee, if he's on his cellphone or using other people's cellphone, subpoena the carrier, whether it is verizon,

at&t, t-mobile, whoever, and you can get the phone records from any phone carrier, right? >> right. that's one of the things the committee is looking at. again, you've got such pushback, particularly from the lawmakers who were involved here. you think about the three republican lawmakers who the committee has invited to testify, scott perry, jim jordan, kevin mccarthy. we know there are other lawmakers the committee wants to talk to, but they're worried about the political sensitivity here of being accused of trying to pull back the curtain and get lawmakers' phone records, especially their own colleagues. i mean this is a politically sensitive issue for them. they may find, and perhaps they have found -- you know, we don't know exactly what they've gotten out of some of the recent depositions, but we know they've spoken to several mid level trump staffers, either communication staffers, someone like ben williamson who was mark meadow's top aide. these were the kind of people that would have been in and out of the oval office potentially on the 6th and might have been

the owners of the offending missing cellphones here. there are other ways to get at this that may have less political blow back potentially than going after the carriers. >> it is a matter of time finding those details. but, eugene daniels, if you look at donald trump's response to all of this, there's lots of -- you know, we sort of know his sort of m.o. some of these statements are written by lawyers and some just show his hand. >> they read like his old tweets, right? anybody misses a tweet, you see them in the statement, exactly, exactly. so much of this and what has been interesting about the investigation the entire time is so much happened in public or people talked about it themselves. you look at kevin mccarthy, how he shared with other members of congress and that obviously leaked to reporters about how he talked to the president that day. so we know that he did that. you look at what peter navarro talked about, about the green bay sweep, we know that was happening. he wrote it in his book. so so much of this has happened

in public. >> right, in real-time. >> in real-time shall and they've been proud of that, right, talking about the way that they tried to overturn the election, president trump's words. so the investigation is continuing to look at stuff that we've kind of already heard and seen. so they're hoping as they start doing the open hearings, and hopefully in primetime they've been saying, that the american people get to see the actual timeline. >> yes. >> get introduced to it in a different way. >> and a lot of it, joe, they will recognize because they saw it happen in real-time, but it needs to be unnormalized. >> yeah, it most definitely does. david ignatius, before we go to break, let's shift topics just a minute here. i want to talk about ukraine, talk about our reaction to it. i want to talk about something very interesting that's happening out of great britain. of course, jeremy corbyn when he

ran the labor party was not a close friend of the united states, certainly not on issues like this. but the "wall street journal" editorial page has headline, "british labor leader steps up on russia. kier starmer sees putin clearly, unlike some in the american right. they quote him saying, no -- and this was an op-ed, by the way, that he put in the german newspaper. nobody wants war. at first glance some on the left may be sympathetic to those voices who condemn nato, the labor leader wrote in the "guardian." but to condemn nato is to condemn the democracy and security it brings and which all allies in eastern and central europe are relying on as the sabre rattling from moscow grows even louder. in britain now at least you have the left and the right unified,

and as we continue moving forward on this crisis i just can't help but think again and say again that vladimir putin is doing something that would have never been done without these troop deployments to the border. he is not only unifying nato, he is unifying republicans and democrats in america, and he is uniting torys and labor members in britain. it is quite remarkable really. >> it is remarkable. it is a testimony to just how far overreached putin's position is. he's uniting people in ukraine. as you know, i was there three weeks ago. it is amazing. ukraine used to be a country that had pretty divided feelings, some pro-russian, some anti. you don't find that now.

people really hate putin. raise it, first thing people talk about, he is uniting, as you say, republicans and democrats here, people in britain. i have talked to several european ambassadors this week, and although there's talk about disarray in nato, i'm not finding that. >> no. >> if putin invades he will find a united nato alliance, he will find a united ukraine. i think this is, if he does it, a mistake that will be consequential for him and for russia for decades. it will be a little bit like, i hate to say, our invasion of iraq in 2003 that we're still struggling to get over. it will be a big mistake, but putin doesn't seem to get that. >> garrett haake, let's talk about the sanctions directed at russia potentially. there had been some bipartisan work going on, there still is between bob menendez and jim risch of idaho, talking about

what to do with russia and what could be implemented in a rare moment of bipartisanship in washington. but we were told "politico" reported first they hit a snag and risch saying we are at a moment of truth whether or not we will get this done. where does this negotiation stand? >> impasse was the word we kept hearing from lawmakers before they left town. the sanctions package was moving along quite well, and they really did get stuck. the big question here is when to impose some of these sanctions. there are some, particularly republicans, who would like to see some sanctions imposed right now for the destabilizing activities that russia has already done, and there are others who feel like anything that is imposed now before there are russian boots on the ground in ukraine could be a provocative action. there's a real debate about the timing question. also, earlier in the week mitch mcconnell kind of undercut the negotiators here. he said at his weekly press confidence that president biden already has all of the tools he needs to go after vladimir putin if he wants to put sanctions in place now. that didn't exactly help light a

fire under the negotiators on the senate side. we will see if they come back together on this or if, you know, real world events intervene and force their hand. all right. still ahead on "morning joe," president biden appears to split with the growing number of democratic governors who are lifting covid mask mandates. we will show you his new remarks about that. plus, thousands of municipal workers in new york city could be out of a job today. the latest on the fight over the city's vaccination ultimatum. also ahead, democratic congresswoman abigail spanberger will be our guest on the heels of her appearance with president biden in her virginia swing district yesterday. plus, inflation hits a 40-year high and prices are still on the rise. steve bratner joins us next with charts. and we are counting down to the super bowl. we will have a live report outside sofi stadium. you are watching "morning joe." we will be right back.

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let's look at the reason for the inflation. the reason for the inflation is the supply chains were cut off, meaning that the products -- for example, automobiles. the lack of computer chips to be able to build those automobiles so they could function, they need those computer chips. they were not available, so what happens? we have a number of cars reduced, new cars reduced, one-third the price of inflation because the price of automobiles were out. i went out and made sure we made those domestically. we got $20 billion to build new facilities. a number of organizations doing the same thing. >> president biden discussing the rising inflation rate in an

interview with nbc's lester holt. it is a whopping 7.5% over the past year, joe. >> yeah. with us now former terrificure treasury official steve rattner. we listen to the president blaming the supply chain. if you have tried to buy a new car, prices have skyrocketed. when you talk to dealers they will tell you that they have problems with the chip. you hear it with a lot of other technology. people are having trouble and the prices are going up because of that. he always talked about the $2 trillion people saved during the pandemic because they weren't going out spending the money, that's been on the side. it is now starting to come out into the economy. a lot of force is going. this morning the "wall street journal" is blaming build back better and all of the spending. you have warned about that along with larry somers and some other

democratic economists. i'm curious. is this just a confluence of events, a perfect storm that's leading to this inflation, or from the way you look at it is there something that policymakers could do to lessen the impact of inflation? because they sure as heck can't -- can't do anything about the $2 trillion that's been on the sidelines and this pent-up demand that i don't care who the president was, that would be pushing inflation upward. but i'm wondering, with all of these outside things happening, what can lawmakers do? what can biden do? >> sure. well, first of all, joe, they're not really all outside factors or things that -- a perfect storm or things that just rained down from heaven. this is highly a self-inflicted problem, not just by us but by the rest of the world. i say with regret that everything president biden just said in that news clip you just showed was basically wrong in terms of what is causing inflation. the problems with the supply line is to not cause

inflation -- i mean inflation, excess demand caused the problems with the supply lines which then caused inflation. we are actually buying more stuff than we have ever bought before. imports were up 20 percent last month, and that creates -- you try to import 20% more things through the port of los angeles than you did before the pandemic, that causes supply problems. so it has left us in a really twisted-up situation. i can go with further examples like that. the answer is in the short run there's really nothing the administration can do. they've tried to talk about a lot of small things like hearing aid prices. that's obviously not going to have an effect on inflation. i think the lesson learned is we have to be much more careful with our policy actions, both at the congressional level where more spending, more deficits would not be a good thing, and at the fed where, unfortunately, interest rates are going to have to go up. >> and you say it is not the supply chain, it is not the shortage of chips and the things that the president talked about

there. you are saying people are buying more stuff than ever before. obviously you and i have talked about this for decades, about, you know, increasing deficits, higher debt, the inflationary pressures that that could put on an economy. but let's figure this out. in your mind, how do you balance -- again, the $2 trillion people kept on the sidelines and didn't spend during the pandemic and the trillions of dollars that were flooded into the economy by the last administration and this administration on covid relief bill, infrastructure bills, the $5, $6, $7 trillion into the economy, how do those match up and where do you put the blame again for the inflationary pressures? >> there's no question that the $5 trillion, $6 trillion put in

the economy by the last two presidents, and obviously it was a good idea. you had to keep the economy moving, you had to put purchasing power out there, but then we piled one stimulus on top of another stimulus and ended up with $2 trillion and people trying to buy a lot more stuff than they used to buy, and that clogs up everything. part of it is something we didn't anticipate, none of us anticipated, which was that people would move from services, where it is hard to go on vacation, hard to go to a restaurant or you are scared to or uncomfortable doing that, to buying goods or trying to buy a new car. why are new car prices up so much? yeah, there's a chip shortage, there's complicated reasons for that, but people have been trying to buy a car. why are used car prices up? people are trying to buy used cars. we will talk about housing prices where you will see interesting numbers on that as well. >> steve, to completely destroy your day on twitter, let me ask you one final question. does it seem that joe manchin's refusal to spend first $6

trillion on build back better and then $3 trillion on build back better and now dragging his feet on $1.75 billion on build back better, does it seem to you the best to wait before you pump that into the economy? >> joe is on the right track. but the wisest economic move would be to adopt both spending and tax policies that don't add to the deficit and, therefore, you can raise money from wealthy people, from corporations, things like that, and spend it on our critical needs. we do need to do something about climate for sure. we certainly need to do something -- it would be great to do something about the tax credit for families that don't make much money. there are plenty of good policies out there but they need to be paid for, and the build back better bill was not really paid for. they said it was paid for, but it would create something like $600 billion of new deficits in the first four years and then pay for it later in theory by

tax revenues and various other structural problems. i'm not against new policies, i'm not against new spending but it needs to be paid for, and we didn't do that at all with the $1.9 trillion at the beginning of the biden administration and now the cost of that in inflation terms is coming home to roost. >> so, steve, i read in i think it was "the times" or "the journal" a couple of days ago, there were charts that had the costs of housing in different markets and talked about where it was hardest to get a new house, where the shortages were the greatest. it really is -- the gist of it is that it is becoming nearly impossible for middle class americans to get into the home market right now because there is, again, a massive shortage and inflation is skyrocketing on these homes. you brought some charts with you to explain how tough it has become for middle class americans. >> absolutely.

this has been a problem for a while, and it has been a problem for a while and what has happened recently has simply exacerbated. if you go back to the financial crisis really, i will show you what the trend of house building has looked like. you can see here that house prices, which kind of were bouncing around after the financial crisis, really they were pretty quiescent until the pandemic him. they were up 20%, highest in november, not up quite as much. when you are talking about house prices escalating on a record of 20%, something we have never seen before, obviously it will feed into inflation. you can see it is not split evenly. in places like phoenix house prices are rising 30%. in places like new york they have been lagging although there

are reports prices are going up even faster. why is it so hard for americans to buy a house? it is simply because going back to the great financial crisis, we under build housing. you can see here what the housing rate was over 2 million houses a year into the crisis, plummeting to 500,000. it has been gradually catching up, but the dotted line is household formation. these are people leaving home from their parents and starting their own household. that under building over a long period of time created a gap of 4 million houses less than the number of households we would have had, and that's what happened on the normal trend. that collides with a fact an increasing number of people are trying to buy them as well, and it has a big effect on cost. when you look at financing, that's the other thing that may make it easier to buy a house but it also has a big effect on

costs because the lower the interest rates, the more house somebody can afford, the more they're willing to pay the costs go up. the costs were up 5% before the pandemic. they dropped to 2.56% mortgage rates at the bottom. they're now up because of what we've been talking about with the fed to about 3.7%. still very low by historic terms, so it is inexpensive to buy a house. but look at the cost of building a house on the right. the cost of construction materials is up 43%. lumber at one point was up four times, now it is two-and-a-half times. copper is up 65%. a lot of that, joe, has occurred because we've given people money to buy houses, interest rates are low and they're all out there trying to buy houses. inventory is at an all-time low of new houses, and so prices go up and that feeds into inflation. >> inventory, it is just crazy. one town after another, one city after another, there just doesn't seem to be inventory. let me ask you really quickly

about -- get you to clarify on build back better. the white house says the $1.75 trillion build back better plan they've negotiated out with joe manchin or that they had a handshake deal on, said that that's paid for. first of all, do you agree with that? and if bbb is ultimately paid for, are you not concerned -- you are obviously not concerned about additional inflationary pressures there if it is paid for, right? >> correct. the build back better -- look, it is a little bit in the eye of the beholder. honest accounting, build back better was simply not paid for, for the reason i said plus another reason. reason number one is that there were deficits and i think the white house would acknowledge this. this is in cbo numbers. there were substantial deficits in first four years where the last thing we need right now are more federal deficits. in theory, the money comes back in the later years and it takes longer than the time period that the money is spent for the money

to come back. you tell me if that is paid for. the second reason why, and this is at the core of joe manchin's argument for why it is not paid for, is you had a series of programs like the special tax credit for families that don't make a lot of money that was only there for one year. in the numbers and in reality. then the congress would have to renew it next year, and you tell me if congress would take it away or -- >> yeah. >> -- and you tell me whether congress would raise taxes to pay for it. congress -- the president and the congress were putting themselves in this box of all of these programs that are theoretically paid for except a year for now you will have to pay for them again. >> all right. steve radner, thank you so much for coming on. thank you for your straight talk. good luck on twitter today. don't expect any invitations to the white house easter egg hunt. >> he's not invited. >> you won't be on the invite list for the easter egg hunt. >> no. >> we'll take pictures and send them to you. thank you so much. very -- great straight talk and

it gives us a lot to think about. all right. coming up, we are going to go live to l.a. ahead of sunday's big game. we will get a look at how covid is impacting the super bowl experience. and speaking of covid, connecticut is about to give local officials more leeway on mask mandates. governor ned lamont joins us to talk about that at the top of the hour. "morning joe" will be right back. "morning joe" will be right back

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homer simpson, we work for the commissioner of football and he wants to see you. >> i want to see him, too. maybe he can tell me how to get this off. it soaked through to the other side. >> go bengals. we never miss a chance to get in a simpson's clip. on sunday the los angeles rams and cincinnati bengals face off in super bowl lvi in sofi stadium in englewood, california. nbc correspondent shaquille

brewster is up early joining us from outside the stadium. good to see you. for one thing i hear it will be almost 90 degrees on game day sunday. luckily they will be tucked away in the air conditioned stadium. how is it looking so far? >> reporter: there's a lot of excitement. you mentioned the weather, yes, it is going to be high 80s and we will see you thereto the weekend, which is different than i'm used to when inside chicago and reporting from the snow. here in l.a. there's a lot of energy and excitement, not only here in englewood where the game will be played in a couple of days but also when you go downtown to where they have the large-scale events with the fan experience. you know, there was a big backdrop to this in terms of the pandemic. just about a month ago, there were open questions and speculation over whether or not the super bowl would look as a normal super bowl with lots of fans, with that packed stadium as the omicron variant really surged its way through the country and through the state. but there are those pandemic considerations that you see here. there's proof of vaccinations that's required.

there are masks that are being worn inside the stadium and also at these fan events. it was something i asked many of the fans yesterday at the downtown nfl live experience where many of those fans who can't afford a ticket to the game go to have a little bit of fun. i want you to listen to what they told me about the backdrop and the lingering pandemic concern. >> i'm fine with it. as long as it keeps everybody safe, it is perfect and this is an experience for all of us to have that can't even afford a super bowl ticket. so i'm excited. >> i think they control it pretty good. they check the vaccination, everybody wears mask for the most part. i feel comfortable. i'm very serious about it so i feel comfortable. >> we want to enjoy the best, it is l.a., it is a lot of people, a big city. it is better to be safe. >> reporter: big city, better to be safe. it is not just the pandemic, but there's also the normal security concerns that come with such a large event like this. we are talking about ten different federal agencies working with more than 13 local law enforcement groups. it is an all-hands-on-deck

effort as they are handling the super bowl and making sure people are safe not just from the pandemic but also make sure they are safe once they get inside. willie. >> so much going on around the game before we even get inside the stadium to play it. nbc's shaquille brewster outside sofi stadium where they will play the super bowl on sunday. shaq, thanks so much. joe, let's talk about the big game. >> yeah. >> we should point out only one person around this table played division one college football and his name is eugene daniels. the great -- >> oh. >> -- colorado state defensive lineman in the legendary 2009 team that came out hot, one its first three games, including one in boulder at colorado where he starred in that game. let's start with you. who do you like on sunday? >> i think the rams are going to take it. it seems the most obvious to me because i love an underdog, that's who i'm thinking. the smart choice and everyone says this, is the bengals. that will be very clear.

but i'm going to go with the rams. >> rams for eugene daniels. okay. all right. he has got knowledge and experience, joe. >> yeah, yeah. well, of course he does. you know, the thing is it is interesting, willie. if this game weren't being played in l.a. the bengals would be my pick. i am a big believer in teams of destiny. you saw the bengals from the very beginning with their win over the titans. joe burrow is a guy. you also bet on quarterbacks. you know, warren buffett says you bet on ceos and you look at them more than you look at the companies they're running to see how they lead it. well, you also look at guys like this, whether it is joe burrow or whether it is, you know, it was montana in the past. who were the guys that can will their team to victory? and he's done it time and time again, and i got to say on the other side the rams, not great

in the clutch. they blew a 17-point lead against the 49ers the last game of the season. they've been shaky in the playoffs as well. but this game is being played in l.a. they should have a massive home field advantage. all of that said, i'm still going to pick the bengals. david ignatius, what about you? >> you know, i got to go with the bengals. my wife's from ohio, so she would be angry if i wasn't for the bengals. >> good call. >> but, you know, i think it is just their moment. how cool -- you know, i rarely say this. how cool the super bowl is coming up. it looks exciting are shaq's report. >> l.a. has the talent. i love matt stafford, he is a dallas guy, but i'm with you. the bengals might be a team of destiny. they got hot, they snuck into the playoffs. they started beating people who they shouldn't beat. l.a. has a home field advantage. l.a. didn't have a home field advantage against san francisco

the other week. l.a. fans are still sort of getting used to having football again. so i think the bengals are the hot hand right now. >> willie. >> i think it was cone o'brien who tweeted the other day it will be interesting to see if l.a. rams fans travel to the super bowl if it is in l.a. we'll see if they do. yeah, i have been on the bengals all season and not just because joe burrow and ja'marr chase carried me to a fantasy football league title this year. i'm grateful to them for that, but i love burrow. two years ago, are you, the bengals were 2 and 14. last year they were 4, 11 and 1. in the space of about a year they've totally turned around the super bowl. so i will stick with them but you have to be happy for matthew stafford. he toiled in detroit more than ten years. he was beloved in detroit, put up huge numbers there, they went to a playoffs a couple of times. got to be happy with them but i'm sticking with my pick that's been through the playoffs and

that's the cincinnati bengals. >> mika, who are you going for? >> whoever your son jack picks. so -- >> i'm lonely. >> we'll see. >> i think jack's got -- i think jack is going to be a bengals' guy, too. >> okay. then it is the bengals for me. >> we've been enjoying following that. do we still have shaq or is he gone? >> he's gone. he's gone, joe. >> okay. very good. placing his bets probably. >> yeah, the super bowl is on nbc. later this morning we will be joined by the mayors of los angeles and cincinnati, who are putting more than just bragging rights on the line for sunday's big matchup. also ahead, censured but not silenced. congresswoman liz cheney continues to defend her work on the january 6th committee, saying lawmakers trying to find out what happened that day will not be intimidated. we'll read from her new op-ed ahead on "morning joe." "mornin.

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certain words creeping into his conversation, words like swell. so's your old man. it's on, my friends. >> the hugely anticipated revival of meredith wilson's "the music man" made its broadway debut last night. grammy, tony and emmy award winner hugh jackman stars as professor harold hill, alongside tony award winner sutton foster as mary ann peru. a-list stars and political names attended opening night including senate majority leader chuck schumer and new york city mayor eric adams along with diane reynolds and die on-von furstenberg. "the music man" is subsidizing tickets at just $20 to new york city students, families and their teachers to help foster a

love and appreciation for the arts by making broadway more accessible. this effort is built around partnerships with the new york city department of education and a dozen local new york city youth nonprofit groups. how fabulous. we have to go. i absolutely love it. >> oh, yeah. >> it is so, so great to see things coming back to somewhat normal, joe. >> yeah, no, it is fantastic seeing broadway come back to life. obviously the super bowl this weekend. >> yeah. >> it is going to be wonderful. i think maybe we can all collectively exhale and hope we don't have another variant coming around the corner. >> let's hope. >> so we can go out -- >> this looks fantastic. >> whether it is going to broadway or going to your local movie theater or, again, sporting events without restrictions or concerns, let us hope one day soon.

david ignatius, thank you for being with us. what are you looking at? what are you working on right now? >> so, joe, i'm looking at another crisis that we are kind of forgetting about, and that is the rapid move by iran toward having enough material to make a nuclear weapon. we are very close, it is said, negotiators in vienna to getting a deal that would replace the jcpoa, the iran nuclear deal that donald trump dumped. after trump dumped that deal the iranians raced to produce material. there was a briefing given this week, a classified briefing for members of congress, and senator chris murphy came out of it shaking his head and said he found what he heard shocking about how close this threat was. so i have my eye on that. you know, just to take my mind off ukraine, i'm going to worry about iran. >> i'm glad you are doing that. we will be following that. david ignatius, thank you so much for coming on this morning.

have a great weekend. coming up, connecticut is among a number of democratic-led states now easing coronavirus restrictions. governor ned lamont joins us to talk about that straight ahead on "morning joe." on "morning joe. ♪♪ you poour heart into everything you do, which is a lot. so take care of that heart with lipton. because sippin' on unsweetened lipton can help support a healthy heart. lipton. stop chuggin'. start sippin'. ♪ (mail recipient 1) thank you. that's open. stop chuggin'. (mail recipient 2) all the mail is open. (mail recipient 4) so this one's open too. (delivery man) yeah, that one's open.

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i need to return this book. >> i'm sorry. we can't take this book back. >> why not? >> it's been flagged. >> flagged? >> it's been in the bathroom. . >> it says that on the computer? >> please take it home. we don't want it near the other books. >> well, you just lost a lot of business because i love to read! >> george costanza tried to return his bathroom reading. donald trump may have flushed his down the toilet. that's nice way to start the hour. >> people say -- people really do say he does a lot of -- he does a lot of work, willie,

that's just what people say, there, you know. every time he talks to kim jong-un. >> why do you do this? >> i'm just saying some people say every time he talks to kim jong-un for some time, that's what he does. some people say that. i don't understand why. i asked these people and they don't know why, but it is very interesting. >> willie. >> that's what some people say. >> you know, we all do our best work in certain places. we have a peaceful corner of a room. >> i guess. >> maybe down in the basement, up in the attic. for this president it appears to have been on the can. >> okay, guys. >> that's what some people say. that's what some people say. >> that's what some suggest, yeah. >> that's what he did, he said that about everybody. some people say this person is a loser or whatever. okay. well, you can do your toilet talk. no more toilet talk now. garrett haake and eugene -- >> you know what, we report, you

decide. that's all i'm saying. we report, you decide what some people say. >> okay. garrett haake and eugene daniels are still with us. you guys happy to be with us? >> no toilet talk. >> joining the conversation we have the host "way too early," jonathan lemire and poor former chief of staff, adrian elrod is here, not sure she wants to be here, senior aide to the biden and clinton campaigns. it is good to have you all. >> arkansas, big upset this week. >> huge, huge. >> the arkansas razor backs are on fire, as we would say in northwest florida. talk about it, adrian. >> first of all, i was in arkansas on tuesday evening and i'm upset i didn't go to the game. it was a dumb decision on my part. this is a big deal. it was the largest turnout ever at barn hill arena where the razor backs play. we beat the number one team,

auburn. everyone loves our coach, eric musselman. we are on the muss bus in arkansas. i hope we can continue this winning streak. >> so cute. all right. i like that analysis. anyone else want to -- lamire, do you have a choice? >> for the muss bus? >> you know, i will now happily hop on the muss bus. i will avoid the commode talk, i'm sorry i missed out on the super bowl talk but i'll take the bengals. they have never won it before. let's go, bengals. >> yeah. >> sources tell "the washington post" some of the white house records retrieved from mar-a-lago by the national archives last month were clearly marked as classified, including some records that were top secret. the records are reportedly being stored in a scif, a place where sensitive information can be held and discussed until justice department officials decide how to move forward. yesterday we reported the national archives has asked the

doj to examine donald trump's handling of white house records after retrieving 15 boxes of material from the president's florida residence. after receiving records that were ripped up and then taped back together. in a statement to "the washington post", a trump spokesperson writes, quote, it is clear that a normal and routine process was weaponized by anonymous, politically motivated government sources to peddle fake news. the only entity with the ability to credibly dispute this false reporting is the national archives, is providing no content. willie, so they ripped it up. is this more than going through a shredder, like personally ripping it up, and some people say like eating it? >> well, he's got a history of ripping up documents, so it wouldn't be surprising if he had. this all figures into the work of the select committee. congresswoman liz cheney, the vice chair of the committee investigating the capitol attack, has a new piece in the "wall street journal" titled

"the january 6th committee won't be intimidated. the congresswoman writes this. republicans used to advocate fidelity to the rule of law and the plain text of the constitution. in 2020, mr. trump convinced many to abandon those principles. as the select committee will demonstrate in hearings later this year, no foreign power corrupted america's voting machines and no massive secret fraud changed the election outcome. almost all members of congress know this, although many lack the courage to say it out loud. mr. trump knew it, too. those who do not wish the truth of january 6th to come out have claimed the process is tainted and political. our hearings will show this charge to be wrong. we are focused on facts, not rhetoric, and we will present those facts without exaggeration, no matter what criticism we face. garrett haake, it is extraordinary that this is extraordinary. in other words that a republican has to come out and state the obvious about what the party used to stand for and what the job of this committee is. >> no, but liz cheney really

wants this fight, willie. she more than any other member of the committee feels like this is a battle, not just for the country and for democracy but for her party. she has leaned into it farther than any other member of that committee. to me actually i thought the most interesting part of that op-ed was right there at the top, the idea that they're not only going to demonstrate what happened on january 6th and what their investigation has shown when we finally get to the public hearing phase of this, but they want to prove that there was no widespread voter fraud. they want to go through and actually debunk these things that a lot of trump supporters potentially still believe about the way the 2020 election was conducted. i mean this is not just a redux of what we saw in the impeachment and trying to show the events of the day, but you hear from cheney there. they kind of want to have an exorcism of all of the demons in the 2020 election and the way it was portrayed on the right. i thought that was the most interesting part of the op-ed. >> that's a good point, garrett,

they're trying to undermine the lie that undergirds everything that happened on january 6th and everything that followed. she comes to this with clout and power because she is still running for election. she has a tough fight, we know there may be a brewing primary process, but also the family she comes from. adrienne, there's been a debate about the committee. they want to get to the bottom of what occurred that day and prevent it from happening again, that's one thing. there's also the politics of it. not every republican is vulnerable to being linked to donald trump. what is the approach here for democrats? they look at november to, to try to tie republicans running for house or senate with the events of january 6th and with the president? >> i think it is simple. the majority of the american people including a lot of independents, a lot of swing

voters, suburban voters want to understand what happened, they want to get to the bottom of what happened on january 6th and they don't want it to happen again. we all watched it with their own eyes. they are seeing republicans going out and saying, oh, these were peaceful protests, this was not a big deal, a lot of americans watched what the rnc did. i think continuing to make sure that the facts come out. >> yes. >> continuing to make sure this committee, even with the lopsided democrats versus republicans on the committee, which, by the way, was the decision of kevin mccarthy, not anybody else. >> right. >> they make sure we get to the bottom of this. it is as simple as that. no matter what party you belong to, and i think a lot of pro-trump people believe this deep down. they may not say it to their neighbors, they may not say it publicly, but they believe that what happened on january 6th, the insurrection, was horrific. >> right. >> that should never happen in our nation's capital. i think getting to the bottom of this and proving we are at least coming out with, you know, some remedies to ensure that nothing like this ever happens again, that will be in the favor of

democrats. >> while that's all good, joe, is it a political winner? >> well, obviously it would be -- being a coward right now in this environment in republican primaries is probably more a political winner, it is the wrong thing to do though. liz cheney is actually finally doing something that other republicans just haven't done before. it has always surprised me, i said it here from the beginning, the rise of trump, why people didn't take him on directly. i mean i know donald trump, obviously president, and he has had this incredible sway over the party, but i will tell you when -- when we went after newt gingrich after he had been the first republican speaker in 40 years, "times" person of the year, was the most influential in republican politics, the attitude was in for a penny, in for a pound. if you are going after them, you

go after them 100 percent. as i always say, nobody stops when you are going 90 miles per hour. that's exactly what liz cheney is doing. she is not apologizing for wanting to defend this country. she is not apologizing for going after seditionists. she is not apologizing for going after a president who actually whipped this mob into a frenzy, who lied about the election for a year, who tried to subvert democracy, who tried to stop a peaceful transition. she is not apologizing. you know, it is like the cheneys. they've just never put up with you know what. they just don't put up with it. i think, you know, adrienne, there's a certain guy from arkansas, your home state, that says better to be strong and wrong than right and weak. well, liz is being strong and right and she is a cheney. so she can say, hey, we've never

put up with this. i would use more colorful words on the campaign trail. whether it is people that were attacking my dad or whether it is people attacking me, because we are trying to defend this country. >> yeah, that's right, joe. it is so ironic that the republican party is turning against liz cheney when her father, in particular, used to be the absolute face of the conservative movement. but, no, that's exactly right. history will write this in the favor of democrats. history will write this in the favor of preserving democracy and ensuring that something that happened like january 6th at the capitol never happens again. joe, i spent a decade working in that building, and every time i walked into building i felt like i was in the safest place at least in washington, d.c. i think most people who work there and most americans who have visited there don't feel that way anymore. we need to get back to a place -- >> that is so sad. >> -- where we feel that it is safe and that members of congress continue to do their

job without risk of their life or without risk of another insurrection. >> it is such an honor to work there. it is just sad to hear that. >> right. >> it is sad to have seen all of that gone down, and for people to be denying it is painful. >> uh-huh amid a drop in new covid-19 infections, nevada is the newest state to lift its mask mandates. a series of other democrat-led states made similar decisions earlier in the week, despite the cdc still recommending mask wearing indoors. president biden was asked yesterday about those conflicting policies in an exclusive interview with nbc's lester holt. >> mr. president, in recent days we have seen numerous governors from blew states roll back indoor mask requirements, essentially getting ahead of the federal government, the cdc. are those governors wrong? >> well, it is hard to say whether they're wrong. here's -- the science is saying now that masks work, masks make

a difference. look, it is confusing. it is worrisome to people, they're trying to figure out. but what i've tried to do, i tried to make sure we have all of the vaxes needed, all of the boosters, needed, all of the protection that's needed. >> are you afraid though some states and cities are moving too quickly to loosen indoor mask mandates? >> well, you know, it is -- i committed that i would follow the science. the science as put forward by the cdc and the federal people, and i think it is probably premature, but, you know, it is a tough call. >> so connecticut is also making that tough call. governor ned lamont says the state's school mask mandate will be lifted starting february 28th, after which local officials will be able to decide whether masking is necessary or not. governor lamont joins us now. it is great to have you back on the show. good to see. if we could begin by telling us what was behind that decision.

>> good morning, mika, joe. this is the time because people now have the ability to keep themselves safe. you are not going to get -- the referees aren't going to throw up the flag and say "all clear, zero infections, everybody back on the field." that's not the way it works. we do know that we can deal with omicron or zombie cron or whatever comes next and keep people safe. our schools have been the safest place to be for the last two years and we are going to keep them that way. >> good morning, governor lamont. it is willie geist. it is good to have you on the show today. so many are breathing a sigh of relief that masks are coming off in the schools. you have said schools have been among the safest places over the last two years in your state and in other states. can you talk about the decision to pull back the mandate now and why not sooner when many doctors said it could be done? >> look, i got together with kathy hochul and charlie baker

and neighboring governors because we found early on it is better when you work together as a region, you send a clear message out there. the biggest metric is hospitalizations. our hospitalizations are down by three-quarters. it was a little bizarre, willie. i am sitting there in the legislative chamber at the state of the state, saying there's hundreds of protesters outside saying, "unmask our kids" and i'm inside saying, "time to end the statewide mask mandate." everybody is saying, "what did he say? i couldn't hear him." >> obviously they're relieved they're coming off. my question about why it didn't happen sooner. in the early days of the pandemic we wanted our kids masked, the kids were on zoom, all of those things because we didn't know much about it. a year ago or six months ago we knew much more, that it was, as you said, safe to be that school. so was there a time previous to this one where you considered taking those masks off? >> look, i thought about it in november, december, then omicron

hit. you maybe remember, willie, five or six weeks ago people were waiting in line for five hours to get their rapid tests, they wanted to get tested every day. so you have to give people confidence. i needed to make sure the teachers and educators had confidence. it wasn't appropriate a month ago. it is appropriate now. >> governor, let's talk about connecticut's economy. it has been through a couple of tough decades. there have been recoveries that have passed connecticut by, but things seem to be going well. i know the housing market up there, absolutely crazy. it seems that people are getting out shopping, eating, getting reengaged in the economy. where is the economy sitting right now and how badly is inflation impacting connecticut residents? >> hey, joe. i think we're in as strong a

position as we've been in a long time, hiring tens of thousands of people over the next years. the moving vans are turning around. more people moved into connecticut than out of connecticut over the last three years. have to get you and mika back, by the way. but there's a trend line there which i think is positive. >> yeah. can you explain that? because when i left everybody was leaving and you -- in my hometown, which i absolutely love and i am coming back, there were for sale signs everywhere. now, as it is across most of the country, it is hard to find a house. there are in most parts of connecticut -- and this was really right after covid broke. is that because a lot of people

are leaving new york city and deciding to go back to connecticut? >> look, that's some of it. let's face it. during covid the idea that you could have a little backyard outside if you had to quarantine, i think the connecticut lifestyle took on a new meaning. as you know, we kept our schools open while a lot of other schools were closed. i think that made a difference. we have as big a tax differential with new york city as we had before the income tax. it is a good time. look, we are only as successful as new york city, so we're part of the same ecosystem. we are cheering each other on. >> connecticut governor ned lamont. you just may get joe back in connecticut. he loves connecticut, he loves it, but i can't move again, at least not for now. >> you love it too, mika. >> we move too much. i do love it. i started my reporting career there. my god, i was in local at

channel 3 eyewitness news. i anchored eyewitness news with dennis house. remember that? >> he's still there. >> i know. thank you for joining us, governor. at least 3,000 municipal workers in new york city must show proof of covid vaccination or face termination starting today. that equates to less than 1 percent of the city's workforce but is still believed to be the largest worker reduction in the natio in response to a vaccine mandate. new york city mayor eric adams says if people who choose to remain unvaccinated lose their jobs, they won't be fired. they will effectively be quitting. so far about 95 percent of the city's 370,000 workers have received at least one dose of the vaccine. all right. garrett haake, thank you very much for being on this morning. what are you looking at today? >> congress is out. we will see if they're able to

salvage anything of the russia sanctions. that's probably the one piece that could still come together later. >> i like it. keep us posted. still ahead on "morning joe," what is the true market of a leader? our next guest says abraham lincoln's ambition for the greater good overrode his ambition for himself. we'll compare that to what we've seen from senate minority leader mitch mcconnell this week. as we go to break, earlier this week i was thrilled to announce former secretary of state hillary clinton will headline next month's "30/50 summit" in abu dhabi. it is weeks away. the global event from forbes in partnership with know your value will bring together generations of women to mark international women's day. on that day i will interview secretary clinton as she receives the forbes international women's day lifetime achievement award to honor her voice on the global stage in advancing the cause of women. the forbes 30/50 summit begins in just 23 days. you can register yourself or

send members of your team. visit forbes.com for more information. also, submissions are open now for the annual u.s. 50 over 50 list. we are looking for women who are actively stepping into their power in their sixth decade or well beyond. this year's list is open to women whose residence or work is primarily based in the u.s., and you can be lie up about your age. nominate someone today at forbes.com or, better yet, advocate for yourself, nominate yourself. we will be right back with doris kearns good win. kearns good win. from unitedhealthcare. medicare supplement plans help by paying some of what medicare doesn't... and let you see any doctor. anywhere in the u.s. who accepts medicare patients. so if you have this... consider adding this.

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♪ ♪ ♪ ladies and gentlemen, some of you may have heard of him. >> his story has been passed down from one generation to the next. >> four score and seven years ago -- >> he felt that democracy in its purest form is for all people.

>> all persons held as slaves shall be thenceforward and forever free. >> but there's something deeper than what he did. it is about who he was. >> lincoln grew up in poverty. >> haven't done anything to make anyone remember i ever lived. >> he is living proof someone can rise from obscurity into power. >> with that wit, that charm, that intellect. >> it is better to stay silent and be thoughtful than to speak up. >> he takes the declaration of independence. >> all men are created equal. >> and turns it into a nation's moral compass. >> as the country is breaking apart, there's a turning point where he is going to have to take a stand. >> charge! >> blood will be on your hand. >> blood is already on my hands! >> he had to learn how to be a commander in chief. >> i can't have a war on two fronts. >> he was willing to admit he was wrong and to change. >> we can attack immediately. >> he was the right person at

the right time. >> if we let this stand for one minute longer, we might as well say goodbye to the whole thing. union, democracy, all of it. >> wow. >> just extraordinary. >> i'll be watching that. >> that was the trailer for the history channel's upcoming docuseries "abraham lincoln" which premieres president's day weekend. with us, the executive producer of that, presidential historian doris kearns goodwin. it is based on the best-selling book "leadership in turbulent times." we will note tomorrow would have been abraham lincoln's 213th birthday. we will apply this to more current times, but, you know, doris, i think we are taught a simple version of abraham lincoln's life. abraham lincoln was born, he grew up, got elected, he freed

the slaves. that cuts off about three decades of political torture where he's constantly having to tack back and forth, upset abolitionists, upset conservatives, being pulled at by all sides, and yet he was willing to do it but it was a tortuous process whether he was in the illinois state legislature, whether he was in the u.s. congress, whether he was running for senate or whether he was sitting in the house. talk about it. >> i think you are so right. you know, i think one of the things we were hoping to do with this film is to go back to when he's young so that you can show him not as an icon, you know, not with everything worked out. you are going to see him making mistakes. you are going to see him learning from failure. you are going to see him having to develop humility, get rid of

some of the chutzpah he had when he was young, make people feel a sense of relish and humor. as you say, he has to make decisions that are so tough and he is against all sides being pressured. so he is a man. in some ways it is abraham becoming abraham lincoln. when i hear he is 213 years old, or he would have been, i can't believe it. i lived with him for so long, he's only 40, he's only 50, i lived with him so long. god, that scared me. >> you talked about other historians on the way to emancipation and lincoln would do things that seemed horrible, inexplicable. a good example would be when he was the first president to call black americans in to the oval office. he lectured them. he was talking down to them.

he was angry, basically saying, you know, after you are freed you need to leave our country, and he cynically had in the corner of the office a newspaper reporter to make sure the entire country knew that he wasn't doing this for any great moral crusade, he was just going to do it to win the war. obviously no politician would have the nerve to be that cynical and that tough, but he knew he had to convince americans that he was emancipating the slaves for their good because in a racist country that would be the only way that he could get to where he was going. i mean no politician then, no politician now would make such a move. >> i mean you are so right. he knew then when he met with that group of black ministers that he was going to emancipate the slaves. he had already made his decision that he was going to issue the emancipation proclamation. the next step was you had to create public sentiment. he always said that, with public

sentiment anything is possible. without it, nothing is. he was making sure that the people who were not in favor of doing it would understand the union was the thing that they cared about, that the union would only be saved by doing this. you know, the moment that i think is so important for him and really for us right now, we talked about ambition at the very start of this. in 1864 when the war was still not over, hundreds of thousands were dead and there was a sense of exhaustion on the part of the north and the south, the republicans leaders came to lincoln. they said, you will not win the election in november unless you are willing to compromise on slavery. just let people know you will put emancipation off later and just restore the union. he said, i would be damned in time and eternity if i turned my back on the black warriors. his ambition for the greater good was greater than his ambition even to win the election. then atlanta falls, the mood in the south and north changes and he is able to win that election, but with union and emancipation

intact. that's the kind of person we need in public life today, who see not just their own ambition for themselves but for their legacy and what they're going to leave behind, how history is going to regard them. we are at the turning point in democracy now when that's what we are looking for, and maybe we are seeing some of it break right now with what has happened in the last week with mcconnell and liz cheney. i was not hopeful after the year that went by after january 6th, i was so sure everything would break and there would be a dividing line. i'm beginning to feel maybe it is happening now. >> doris, you are so right. you talk about mcconnell. i will say, there are many things that americans can look at and disagree with mitch mcconnell on in the past and in the present, i'm sure in the future as well. it was very clear on january 6th, you even talk to progressives, they will tell you it was mcconnell that dragged everybody back to the floor to vote. it would have never happened if he hadn't insisted on it. you're right. he made the strongest, toughest

statement that any republicans made. last week mike pence went before the federalist society and delivered a message that i'm sure the federalist society, a lot of people there did not want to hear as well. so, again, very human, very human politicians, but, you know, we look -- we look to times such as these to see when people get out of their comfort zone. it is a challenge doing what lincoln would often do, and that is being willing to anger your own side, being able to anger your own base. >> and having the moral compass to know where you want to go. you know, you would think after people have been in politics for decades and they're looking at the future, what do they want to leave behind? don't they want something that their children and their grandchildren will be proud of that they did? this is one of the moments when one has to be willing to maybe go beyond your own political base and decide what is right and what is wrong.

clearly anybody trying to destroy the peaceful transition of power, the whole mark of democracy, as the attackers were trying to do or any of the people who support them and claim it was legitimate discourse, that cannot be right. that is wrong. that's one of the things that lincoln in early debates, he made a distinction. this is right and this is wrong. maybe it is hard to move in that direction and to bring people with you, and that's what we see in the film as well, which is so interesting. fed rick douglas as an agitator, he can afford to be right. he doesn't have to worry in a certain sense about making the whole country agree with what he is doing. but then he makes a partnership in certain sense with lincoln, and he understands at the end, frederick douglass did, as you talked about the last time we did this, you knew this perfectly, if you are an abolitionist you may not see him as anything other than slow and not moving fast enough. but if you have to form the sentiment of the country as a whole, you have to bring people

along, he is swift, determined and resolute. that's the partnership between the two i think is so interesting and essential in terms of the documentary. >> doris, we cannot wait to watch this next weekend. we will be glued to it. we love having you on, we love having john meacham on, historians who serve, who take the long view of things and can look at the wide scope of history and don't have to get mired in every detail of the scrums in washington. i'm curious for our viewers on a friday where you think we are in history right now. there's been so much talk we have never been more divided. of course, right now you are talking about the civil war, we have talked about 1968. there are all of these moments in the country where we are tearing at the seams and there's no way to put it back together, yet somehow america has has in some form. what is your sense of where we are in terms of our divisions and how we might be able to stitch this back together? >> you know, it is such an important question. i think when you look at what happened in the 1850s and one

event led to another and it deepened and deepened the divisions in the country, and yet we're at a point where they're very deep but we still can write the chapter where it is going to go. when i look back at the 1850s i think, if we had done this, maybe done this, the war would have been inevitably undone. we have to realize we are at a similar point. i think it is a serious moment for democracy, but history has shown sometimes citizens show up, leaders come by, a new generation forms, and we are able to somehow pull ourselves together. we got through the civil war. we got through the late 1960s, and i believe we can get through this. you have to have trust we have done it before, but it will take a lot of work on a lot of people's part. it is going to take maybe new parties being formed. it is going to take new ways of looking at things, new ways of coming together, but we can write that chapter. that's the key for us right now i think. it is not inevitable what is going to happen unless we make it inevitable, and that's why i feel encouraged with what

happened this week. i guess as a historian, any kind of hope that comes, i have to keep this optimism that's part of my basic temperament. >> i love that. what great timing for this. the history channel's three-part documentary event premieres a week from this sunday, february 20th at 8:00 p.m. eastern time. doris kearns goodwin, thank you very much. thank you for the optimism. we need it. coming up, inflation sticker shock. the sharpest increase to the consumer price index is being felt in grocery stores across the country. stu leonard jr, the ceo of the grocery chain stu leonards joins us next. n stu leonards joins us next. t sure... -it's a nail fungus infection. -...that's gross! -it's nothing, really... -it's contagious. you can even spread it to other people. -mom, come here! -don't worry about it. it'll go away on its own! -no, it won't go away on its own.

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okay. we've been talking about inflation and the crunch for many americans everywhere from the gas pump to the grocery market. joining us now is stew leonard jr, ceo of the world's largest dairy store, stew

leonard's. he runs seven stores across connecticut, new york and new jersey. i have been to many of your stores because i lived in connecticut and new york. >> thank you. >> yeah. it is nice. yeah? >> mika, you know, my daughter interned with you for the summer. >> that's right. i remember that. >> yeah, madison. >> speaking of daughters, when my daughter was 2 and i took her to stew leonard's, you know those cows you had walking around talking to the kids. >> moo! yeah. >> well, it was a problem for my daughter because she was very -- and then the cow went upstairs on the of the rafter because you have all of this stuff going on in your stores and took its head off and my daughter went nuts and i had to leave. >> oh, they're not supposed to take their heads off. >> it stayed with me forever. >> oh. you got -- you got a real

behind-the-scenes tour of stew leonard's. >> i did. a lot of music going on. it is very sensitizing inside stew leonard's. we're going to talk about super bowl parties, but let's talk about inflation. stew's has its own way of presenting food very fresh and in a different way. how is it going? is it impacting what you are hearing? >> well, the customer is back to pre-covid letters which is good. people are getting out right now. the mask issue is still big. if i go into one of our new york stores, customers don't have to wear it if they come in. in the connecticut stores, you do have to wear it. the mask issue is still big. we hearing from suppliers every day that the cost of them to produce milk, eggs, chicken, it is going up. you know, they have to fill

their tractors up with fuel, and you see what has happened to fuel prices right now. >> hey, stew. good morning. jonathan lemire. it is, of course, super bowl weekend. take us through what consumers, what fans should expect to be paying for some of the staples this week. we know chicken wings have gone up. avocados. there we go, right there. hold that up, send it to the studio here in washington right away, please. >> okay. >> what should football fans expect to pay this weekend? >> well, you know, you can buy these -- we didn't raise the price of these at all on chicken wings right here. this is something you can get a deal on right now. we have had to raise the price of things like this, these are the pigs in a blanket we are making in the store. we are taking our fresh croissant dough and wrapping it around a frank. this takes labor and it is time

consuming. we had to raise these a dollar a package due to that. this is another big one. i just talked to one of your producers who will be buying pizzas. so this is going to -- this is the same price, the same price as it was last year. this is a biggie here with guacamole like this. these have gone up 50 cents a pound right now because of transportation costs coming up from mexico. so you are seeing transportation and labor affecting a lot of this at the store. one thing we are table to do, we buy local. we have some flyers for a long time, and that cuts our transportation costs down on local things. so also we are a family business, so we can hold a little bit on the prices. i have been saying to our suppliers, i'll go 50/50 with you on the price increase right now. let's wait a month or two and see if the supply chain bump

gets smoothed out and we'll talk later. >> okay. >> hey, stew. it is willie geist. i will add my name to the list of fans of stew leonard's. >> hey, i love it! >>. >> i know you are at the flagship. i tend to be a danbury stew leonard's guy. i respect your decision to be in norwalk this morning. what changes the dynamic on the prices from your point of view? i think a lot of people who shop at any grocery store want to know when this is going to come down. when you check out at a grocery store these days it is pretty shocking. what changes for you and then down the line to the customer, these prices? >> well, you know, willie, we are just dealing with this day by day right now. we just got a call from our dairy farmers yesterday that they want to bump the price of milk a little bit like that. so we are talking maybe 10 cents a gallon, 20 cents a gallon, but, you know, what can i tell the farmer, we've within dealing with him for 30 years. so the customer right now is going to see some price increases, but i would urge

everybody to buy things that are on special right now. every single super market has things on sale. buy it, freeze it. you will save money. the second thing is go to a store brand. you know, there's land o' lake cheese. we also have stew leonard's, same thing. you can save money on that. switch to store brands and i think you can ease this inflationary bump we are having in food prices right now. >> hopefully it is just a bump. i am sorry, all of the memories are coming back from my trips to stew leonard's. do you still have the banana lady singing and the button low enough for the kids to press it again and again and again and again? >> yes. >> mika! >> my little grandson, my little 2-year-old grandson is in front of all of the animation shows at the store and having fun. >> all right. >> one thing i want to recommend, i just want to

mention, this is the first year in many, many years where the super bowl is going to hit right next to valentine's day on monday. >> oh, wow. >> we are not -- >> good point. >> we are just not talking about the super bowl. what i would like to do is recommend all the guys out there, because i have been married 38 years now, don't forget the chocolate covered strawberries and the roses. >> just press the banana song. joe, don't forget. stew leonard jr, thank you, i think. i'm getting some really bad ptsd from taking my kids to stew leonard's. >> great stores. we're all fans. don't listen to mika. >> no, it is lovely. just don't bring the kids. >> i mean it is an incredible place. mika, you had a bad experience. the cow took his head off. get over it. that was like 30 years ago. >> the cow took your head off and you should see the dance i did to the banana song my kids had me do every time the banana

song was pressed again and again and again. >> well, we don't do that. >> and then one more time. >> okay. adrienne, i don't know exactly how we get this truck back on the road, but we're going to try it here. talking about inflation and what a political challenge it is, i remember my parents as a kid when i was driving in the '70s i would hear about it, hear about gas prices that went from 33 cents a gallon to over a dollar a gallon. i remember milk going up, bread going up, and i remember my parents talking about it and really had a big impact in their lives. that's where we are right now, inflation growing faster than any time since the early 1980s. how big of a challenge is this, not only for the white house but for all the democrats that are running this fall, and what's the game plan? >> yeah, joe, it is certainly a challenge because as we have talked about many times on the show these are literally the

kitchen table issues that american families are feeling. american families are seeing an average of $250 more in expenses per month because of inflation. it is something the administration is taking very seriously. you know, the president has made it very clear if we pass the build back better act, if we extended the child tax credit it would put more money in pockets of families and address inflation issues, but it is a real issue. the administration is working diligently on supply chain issues and trying to get legislation passed to address it. i think the most important thing for democrats to do on this is to acknowledge there's a problem. this is to acknowledge there's a problem. >> number two, trying to do something about it and republicans are trying to stop everything. it is important to show we are trying to get something done. >> i think it is a winner, eugene, for democrats to focus on the economy in a big way. ocus on the economy in a big way.

>> when concerns started to be talked about they scoffed that it would be a big issue. now you see president biden talking about it more, more importantly talking about how it is hurting people, being honest about that. they know that they have to do something and people have to see them doing things. there is a frustration in the white house that are blaming president biden for a lot of this when they look at what happened during the trump years and the amount of money spent then that republicans signed on to. they are trying to figure out how to deal with the frustrations. we know bbb is not going to happen in the way it was put forward. e way it was put forward.

>> we were speaking of super bowl parties and before the rams and bengals hit the field on sunday, the mayors of l.a. and cincinnati are facing off right here on "morning joe." this is going to be fun. we will be right back. we will be right back. it's a once-monthly add-on treatment for severe eosinophilic asthma. not for sudden breathing problems. allergic reactions can occur. get help right away for swelling of face, mouth, tongue, or trouble breathing. infections that can cause shingles have occured. don't stop steroids unless told by your doctor. tell your doctor if you have a parasitic infection. may cause headache, injection site reactions, back pain, and fatigue. ask your asthma specialist about a nunormal with nucala. first psoriasis, then psoriatic arthritis. it was really holding me back. standing up... ...even walking was tough.

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wrapping up another hour of "morning joe",daniels, what are you looking at? >> the pressure on masks and we saw how the president had to tip toe around that if democrats are starting to say publicly in public spaces, tafk the masks off. but the administration is in a tough spot. they've talked about how they are following the utscience, th cdc has not changed any of the science or talked about how they are changing the mask requirements or recommendations.

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welcome back to "morning joe." it is friday, january 11th. jonathan lemire still with us. >> coffee. >> we will start this hour with a beautiful look at sofi

stadium, getting ready for the super bowl. also, president barack obama spoke in a virtual meeting set up by the caucus chair hakeem jeffreys. obama reportedly stressed the importance of the party, staying unifying and did not complain about its shortcomings. as democrats press into the manied terms. he encouraged them that the country is the on a much better path since taking over the house and senate in 2021. joe, i first want to hear your reaction to that. i mean, there is an argument that we are on a better path, isn't there? >> oh, my gosh, yeah, of course there is. there have been challenges, challenges with inflation. we talk about inflation an awful lot. you look at the surge in the jobs numbers, the surge in our gdp. you compare us to european

countries. america is doing well, it is a tough time as we've said for a lot of working class, middle class americans with inflation but again, i will respectfully disagree just a little bit with steve ratner, the inflation we are facing right now certainly is not just because of the bills that donald trump and joe biden passed on covid relief. again, have you people locked up in their homes for over two years, who haven't been going to work, who haven't been going to theaters, who haven't been going to restaurants regularly, who haven't been able to go to sporting events regularly in a large part of this country. guess what, they're starting to go out now. they're starting to spend their money. they saved a good bit of money over the pandemic, over $2

trillion saved. i don't care who the president is and what party they're in, that would have been the case. by the way, if donald trump and joe biden hadn't passed the covid relief bills, we would be talking about destitute americans, evictions, we would be talking about things that we as americans don't want to the talk about. so the economy is roaring, people are going back to work. people are starting to spend their money. yes, the economy is heating up, so there is inflation. the big question is, when does that inflation burn out? joe biden is not going to be passing any other big bills for a while now because of joe manchin, if what steve ratner is saying, the op-ed editorial pages are saying is correct, well, that's going to burn out, inflation will burn out. we'll have a roaring economy

what about the 5, 6, 7% inflation. >> let's hope. president biden made a short trip to cull pepper, virginia, yesterday, he stressed the need to lower prescription drug prices. >> we paid the highest prescription drug prices of any nation developed nation in the world the highest of any. this is the united states of america, for god's sake. that's just wrong. it's simply wrong, especially since it doesn't cost the drug company nearly, nearly, nearly, nearly as much to make the drug or the research that went into it. the idea you can charge whatever you want is just not going to happen in the united states of america if i have anything to do with it. >> the president appeared alongside democratic congresswoman abigail spanberger, who has made drug costs one of the key issues in her re-election campaign and

congresswoman spanberger joins us now to talk about the day yesterday and that fight. >> congresswoman, we haven't talked about a lot of things, a decision to stand next to joe biden when others haven't in the past. first i want to talk about something that's very important to the my family, something that's very important to a lot of families. you underlined it yesterday, one of my sons has been a type i diabetic since he was 11-years-old. the price for insulin skyrocketed let me say no reason at all, no other reason other than massive profits. can i afford the pay that, to carry that but so many people with know i have a son with type i diabetes comes up to me, they just feel despair. we're having to use old insulin. we're not able to pay some bills. we're in financial straits because our budget is so high for insulin.

it's let me say it, it's a crime and i just want to know what is joe biden going to do? what are you going to do? what is congress going to do to stop this theft from families who are already suffering with diabetes? >> well, my priority and certainly since i was first elect has been to lower the cost of prescription drugs. in the house, we pass numerous pieces of legislation. i've had bills focused on transparency because so much of what happens with drug pricing happened sort of behind some curtain. i worked on legislation related to the 234b program to ensure health clinics and hospitals that serve uninsured and under insured to treat their patients. but the specifics of what you are talking about, diabetics who require insulin is across the

board, no matter where i am what i am doing, people le pull me aside. anecdotally a couple months ago, i was at a parade, i introduced myself saying, hello, one of the gentleman followed me a way toy say, participating in the republican quote floeled me to say please keep doing what are you doing, my child is diabetic. what we are working on, what i'm working on, one, i will continue to push on hr-3. that's the bill to allow med kate canadian to apply and convey those cost savings based on competition to private insurers. then the elements of lowering costs for prescription drugs that we pass is a part move a larger build back better framework. certainly, this has been a lot of consternation what could or could not get passed in the

senate. the one thing we haven't seen debate whatsoever whatever was passed in the house, would also put a cap on medicare prescription drug co-pays for seniors and tut a cap on the co-pay that americans across the country pay for their insulin from so why in the world has this not been passed already through both chambers? why hasn't the president been able to sign it? why hasn't it gotten into law? i can't believe anybody and any party would be for pharmaceutical companies price gouging die bettics and their families? what is the delay? >> well, so i take any of the possible routes forward on this issue approach. and what that means is that if we key do this as a stand-alone piece of legislation, let's do

it as a stand-alone piece of legislation. if we move it to garner the votes, let's do that. i think we saw the framework for the build back better act, we didn't have the vote in the senate and because it didn't have the votes in the senate for the other elements in that package, these incredibly important life-saving elements focus on lowering the price of prescription drugs are also on the table. i say let's pull off from the table what we can all agree on, make sure there is not a single constituent like the ones that came with me to meet the president and were able to tell their stories directly to the president sopt no family is deciding whether or not to put food on the table, no families structuring insulin or cutting their dosage using pumps long after they are exposed to which are the stories my constituents have been telling me my entire time in congress and certainly

had the opportunity to tell the president yesterday. >> a good topic for you, that is members of congress trading individual stocks. you introduced legislation two years ago after you saw what was happening around the pandemic, people profiting off of that it's got new momentum. it's kind of happening at a break neck speed. you have people coming around to your position about this ban. do you think it's going to make it through? there are still opposition out there from members of congress? do you think there will be a ban on members of congress trading individual stocks? >> we're working on it. we're certainly doing the work to make it happen. we have seen forward momentum with the bill we introduced. it's bipartisan day-by-day, more members, republicans and democrats join onto the piece of legislation in the house. we are working with our senators in the senate and i have been

sort of fanning about talking to people about our legislation, why it's the bill we believe should move forward and day-by-day, it's picking up momentum. so there is a final date in sight for a vote. but we're doing the work to continue building the coles, frankly, the american people are helping us, matt. people have been responding so positively to bill, it makes perfect sense to people. i can't believe this is already a thing we are hearing. so individuals have been reaching out to their offices and members offices. so we're getting people contacting us because they have been hearing ab i want through their constituents. thank you for that push to pay attention and dig into this bill. >> congresswoman, good morning. it's jonathan lemire. we should note your team passed on the idea that yesterday's visit by the president was not a campaign event but rather an

event on prescription drugs, that comes whether or not people want to have the president on the road with them considering at least for now not great poll numbers. obviously, you today next to him. talk to us about the challenges democrats do face including for now a president who had suspect poll numbers as you head into this november's mid-terms? >> i think the introduction that you all gave talking about how things have been hard, talking about the ongoing impact of the pandemic is the feeling we have on the ground here in virginia. there is a lot of up ease, there is a lot of challenges my constituents are facing. certainly the opportunity to put constituents advocating and talking and telling me their stories related to prescription drugs, the ability to put those individuals face-to-face with the president, it's representativive, it's the pinnacle of representation, for me to say not only am i taking

your story to capitol hill every single day. when i know the leader of the free world knows how egregious it is between putting fad on your table and giving your child insulin. i talk to him about the unese that exists on the ground, certainly among local law enforcement. i talked to him about the cops legislation. fund it nearly triples current funding. this is a program that certainly president biden worked to create decades ago. i talked to him about the challenges of overdoses, the need to invest in recovery resources, in fact, the issue of fentanyl in our communities, with we are seeing more and more people overdose, creating families losing loved once and need to be aggressive in fighting fentanyl smuggling across our borders. so to be able to speak to the

president face-to-face and say these are the things every time i have a town hall, these are the issues people are bringing to me. you know, that's an opportunity i'm going to take every day and twice on sunday. >> all right. congresswoman ab gym spanberger of virginia, thank you very much for being on this morning. have a great weekend. still to come this hour, we need to talk about cosby. that's the new title of the showtime series from documentary filmmaker and comedian kamil bell. why he almost walked away from it before it was finish morning joe -- "morning joe" is back in a moment. joe -- "morning joe" is back in

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you're dealing with a showtime documentary entitled, we need to talk about cosby. it takes an unfiltered look at the 84-year-old comedienne's legacy and attempts to answer

the question, can we separate the art from the art st? i sat down with w. kamil bell and was joined in the conversation by associate professor of political science fordham university. nbc national affairs analyst john heilemann and pulitzer prize winning columnist and associate editor of the washington post eugene robinson. here is a part of that conversation. this wasn't exactly a labor of love for you. you said at times you wanted to walk away from the project. it was so frustrating for you. explain why. >> it was more than frustration. i don't know how to say this, it was soul rending. we were taking on a lot. in some sense to talk about the good parts of bill cosby's legacy or the painful parts, the criminal parts he engaged in. to put it altogether you few you

were crossing streams that aren't crossed in these kind of projects. >> there are so many parallels when you talk about good parts and the pad parts. we talk about it on our show, especially 1619 versus 1776. two things can be true at the same time. well that's something, maybe it's because bill crosby and the crimes are so close in point that we really don't feel like until now we've had space to talk about how this guy is probably one of the most influential cultural figures over the past 50, 60 years especially think these conversations when they happen, they happen in private between trusted parties, the other one will not tweet out the thing the other person said. we had conversations behind closed doors a lot. we don't have them out in public. i think the only way we change the industry, change america, is

by having these things out in public. because we need the learn something from this. >>ion john heilemann and i were talking on a podcast and then about cosby. my parents in the whitest part of upstate new york on friday nights would be having a dinner party, bill cosby record would be on, a lot of white people would listen to him and i'd be waking up saturday morning and watching "fat albert." you hear him being like wall paper for america. he was kind of all of our wall paper in the '60s, '70s, '80s. again it was an incredible reach. talk about it is a great quote you say that bill cosby helps explain america more than anybody else.

>> yeah. as far as i can tell. this is what i have learned through this process, there is basically two forces that are run away trains in this country. one is racism and the ought is the way in which we treat women. you can't talk about american history how were they treating people not white at this point and women at this point. then black women and women of color. so bill cosby's career involves all those things, the ways in which he talked to people to overcome racism or black team e people to be smarter and do food in your community. there is the other part he is accused of sexually assaulting and raping over 60men women the country does not do a good job hoff women assaulted of rape. >> let's talk about the cosby show in the '80s, by that point,

a lot of us had nope bill cosby for 20 years or so so this show comes on, i guess we should have all seen it as being revolutionary because there was nobody, there was a black family. nobody was running through the door screaming dy-no-mite or shut up, dummy. >> it's all a good show. >> exactly. nobody will say anything bad about red fox. those shows. i am saying this is the first time white america saw a black family living in america and oh, yeah, those are all the things that we deal with and hollywood had not shown that before. >> yeah, bill cosby at that point had over 20 years in show business to prove he was the buy the. the first time he comes on tv he is a part of ind e integrated.

and black people knew it was revolutionary from the start. it was not about their relationship to the get tow or property. it highlighted black excellence week after week. black people knew it was revolutionary. white people were like, i didn't know black people did that. for a lot of black people, we tried to tell you, talk about a hit show, it was a way bigger hit show than the shows today. >> it was massive, it was number one. the fact that again it took about five or six years to say, wait a second, we've never seen a depiction of a black family like that. again, it was cosby, cosby was bigger than so many other people. >> let me commend you on doing something really difficult, which is, this is a tough project. it's a hard subject for me to talk about. i remember cosby when he was

first on "i spy" in the '60s, he did network television that electrified black people, at least in my family and certainly throughout the country and i've had a little bit of personal experience with him. i met him. emceed something which he was the headliner in 2014 and saw his commitment to black colleges and universities and so this is, we're not talking about jeffrey epstein. we're talking about a one dimensional sex offender, not a complicated person. when you went into this, do you know that you would inevitably get blasted from both sides, from, because it's kind of no grounds here, even though you know the tore is about nuance and people love cosby or hate

cosby don't recognize the middle ground. so you went into this with your eyes opened. how did you justify going through with it? how did you keep yourself going? >> first of all, i understood we were walk ac fine line. some people were going to blast me. i understood the ones that would hate it the most weren't going to watch it. i accept people who call at this time hate piece without watchingiment. it's more nuance than a hate piece. when i realized how good it was financial to be, i got all the people i know, this is more difficult than i thought it was going to be. the thing that got me through is the women that saturday down and told their stories, i couldn't turn my back on them after they spent hours talking to me about their lives and stories with bill cosby. that ultimately kept me going. >> my question is i wanted to know more about bill cosby growing up. you really layout the fact that we were looking at a serial

predator for a long time. so what, do we know anything more about his parents, why it is he dropped out of central high school? why is it that he dropped out of germantown high and temple and chastise white people of dropping out of college and high school. what of his back story gives us a window into who he is as a man and why it is he chose to target women for decades? >> i mean so this is the difficult part. none of the people who knew bill cosby at that point wanted to talk to us. there is an official biokaygrapher. can you trust him one line says bill cosby being flirtatous or having roving eyes. the upbringing, we'd be putting

things together without any real source. for us it came about this is when america met bill cosby. i don't want to be an armchair psychologist. it's about no matter where he came from, this is who hes a and this is how it affected the world. >> there is a fat albert for white kids of my generation was maybe the most influential television show of change attitudes at all. i think it's a profoundesque. so you grapple with cosby who was a great comedienne but who changed the culture in these profound ways. what do we do about that? i think it's not just the cosby question, it opens doors of what to do with influential or great artist who's did it really bad stuff? >> i mean, you know, this is the versus the artist question. we didn't realize the question was bigger tan that how do we

create safety in society. the artist question i would say, we separated all the time personally. it has to be about music. there are a lot of musicians you listen to and enjoy and don't think they're good people. but i really like this song. it becomes a problem you expect people to separate art the way you do. that's where the fights happen. i think the thing we're saying is it is fine for you to separate when we payed a clip in our doc about nighttime is the right time, the ray charles lip sync clip. you see people with cosby become children again. that's a part of their dna. am i unhappy to connect it when i saw it? i can't forget to the side of it and people say this is great. we show people looking at it who aren't fans of it.

i i think we have to stop expecting everyone to have the same lines. >> do you have aically? >> bill cosby? >> huxtable, he was a pediatrician. that's right. he delivered babies. oh, my god. oh my god. >> do you remember where his office was? >> it was in the house, wasn't it? >> in the basement of the house. his office was in the basement of the house. >> oh god. >> bill cosby controlled every single aspect of that show. so i have no doubt in my mind that he chose what dr. huxtables medical specialty would be. >> he could have been a dentist for crying out loud. you weren't, you were an ob/gyn. >> this character bringing women to his home, where he examines

them, it's outrageous. >> i don't have da to for this, it's probably due the cosby show the sit-com as another influential and successful show. i'm certain that that show is not in syndication in the way that it would have been had cosby, the way it was prior to the accusations and the conviction against cosby, i am pretty certain in the culture we live in, it never will be again. it will never be the simpsons, people make the descriptions and watch woody allen movies, there are actors that won't perform with woody allen. there is a big sek segment of hollywood think i can't work with this guy and distributors that don't want to play the movies. if we should separate the art from the artist and his bad behavior, would you be comfortable with the cosby show all over america in sipped indication, on cable, where

people like is that the kind of desirable outcome or should it be the case that those crimes that he committed make it now kind of verboten to put him on and elevate the work that he did while he was committing these crimes? >> this is a sort of a two-pronged actor. as a comedian i can say this, all comedy dies on the vine. when i turned the channel, you couldn't turn the channel to see a "i love lucie" rerun. now you can't find one. now we understand everything doesn't air forever, especially comedy the other thing is this, i like the way that disney has done it all on disney plus when they have things that they know that shift things that shifted the consciousness from where it used to. there is a simple warning, hey, this is what you could get into. the same thing on tv, we can hold on to what we want to and

be clear of how we share it. you can get it from lots of different plarms, not necessarily tv. >> i want to ask you, i am curious, feel free to follow with any questions. how have you sort through the legacy of cosby as a man that grew up if orange burg, south carolina and at the same time civil rights struggle was going on there, bill cosby records were being played and he you know fat albert, kids like me were were watching "fat albert" saturday monks. he kept supporting as you said black colleges and a so mother important issues. how were you sorting through it right now? >> i'm not finished sorting through, but really coming quite put it together. to me i guess it's two separate

things. it's what he did, all the important stuff that he did. again for me it goes back to "i spy" certainly "the cosby show," and "fat albert" the comedy was sensational back in the day. there is all that. then there is what we learned about him and his bad behavior and the trial and the person and so for me, it's difficult to re-visit that look it's too soon for me to re-visit. so i don't go searching for the cosby show episodes, even though i know them olympic verbatim. it will be time before i can put those two things together. that's why i so admire you for trying to give us a way to start

trying to synthesize the way we feel about this really towering important figure in our culture with vermiel to be a serial such predator in a way that is just shocking. and that is for me still impossible to reconcile with all the good stuff he did to our culture. >> and professor, i ask the same thing of you, right now as you are going through this seeing the documentary. talk about trying to reconcile the two, how we should appropriate cosby. >> yeah, it's so difficult, joe, that's why i'm so thankful for kamil starting this

conversation. do we watch the cosby show still? do we introduce our kids to the cosby show? for me it was a reflection of our reality. my parents went to galas. we did performances for the grandparents. i mean this was so much of that show is a reflection of my life. then i come to all the data we see used. so even if we had conversations about a different world, how important for so many people who didn't have family members go to college. they when to the hbcus or university because they saw a different world. to say nothing of all the other projects, little bill and other projects that he did, how important they are not just to the black community but to american culture, i would argue in international culture. i think i am with you, i am still trying to negotiate these feelings, especially you know as a woman who talks about sexual

violence amongst friends and family members. so many women have been affected by sexual violence in their lives. so to talk about bill cosby now, it's difficult to detangle the man bill cosby from the art he created for the culture. so we are still sifting through it. that's i think is a four-part documentary is so important. not to put more work on your plate. we need another four to continue to excavate what we are feeling. there is a lot of a racial element that has gone on in this country about white women lying ability black men, that is real. about white supremacy patry arcy and we're trying to have someone

a a hero so long really betray our trust. i think my question is, you know, what were some of the reasons people gave to declining to participate in the documentary? >> as to, first of all, i want to say if there is more to come on this, i'll let you direct and i'll produce. so. >> i'll be happy to chit chat. we can break it together. >> we can do this offline. so, but i would say this, is that it's four hours, which sounds like a lot of time. it really was not enough time to cover what we want to get into. i think this project is about inviteing people to the conversation and there is way more parts of the conversation than we cover in the doc. as much as it seems like it's the whole story, it's not about his childhood. it's not enough about a different world. we had to struggle about that different world. we didn't have enough time. the idea this is the table setting for the conversation

that people should be having right up now generally appreciate. i think a lot of people said no because of the same reason, it's hard for us to talk about it now. going on the record about this, especially if you are a person that worked with bill crosby or are a prominent black intent tainer, you know you will alienate your audience. people, i'm a fan of yours, up until now, i'm done now, i think it's super hard and we're not conversing to talk about this in school, no matter what school, you talk about strictly as a man about sexual assault and rape. it feels like stepping on a mine. i appreciate a lot of people told me no over long phone calls i appreciated. they understand it and couldn't get to it. i understand. >> i have two questions that rises out of this is, i can

totally understand why you would get crap from people whose attitude is, the sexual assaultless are so terrible, how dare you try to take an even-handed look at the bad things he did but also at the positive impact he had on the continue bewks as an artist, a comedian, a social innovator. i can understand that. my question is whether you have gotten crap from people from the other side whose attitude is they think he's innocent. they think he was railroaded. that you were too hard on the sexual assault side of the ledger. that relates to my second question which is back in the days, i hate to use another analogy, back in the days the of oj, we all recall there was a large contingent, a lot of traction in certain parts of the world that oj was set up, he wasn't guilty. cosby and his lawyers right now seem to be trying to play on that i was set up, railroaded, i

didn't do these things. i'm going out on a tour that there will be fans out there. i am interested in whether cosby, there is a constituency out there that feels like kozby is wrongd, he's an innocent man and they're mad at you for hitting him that hard on sexual assault and pay money to get him rehabilitated? >> i feel all the black people can answer this question, are there people out there that believe cosby didn't do these things? i'll invite you to check out my instagram comments. you will find those people exist. there are people out there -- >> is that a large content gent, though? i am curious if it's a few outliers? i'm trying to get a sense, i'm aware there are some people like that. how big, is that a large contingent of people?

>> you ask these questions all the time, is qoanon, a large contingent or vocal. is it large? i don't know. it certainly is vocal and they certainly come ready when they get upset. a lot of them show up. it's hard to know how many out there. i will say overwhelming the fieldpack has been positive, what i heard from survivors in general, they understand there is a need to have these conversations in a different way and they appreciate that. some, i don't want to sit through any of this, it's triggering. i understand people that think he is innocent. you haven't done the reading. >> episode three of the four-part documentary, we need to talk about cosby 3:00 p.m. pacific on showtime, up next, two days away from super bowl sunday, one state is so

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. ae young guy finds success are able to eliminate those distractions. >> any time you play in the super bowl, you don't forget about it. i'm about to play my first. it's never easy, this team sacrificed a lot to get where we got where we are. >> two great super bowl quarterbacks, reflecting. up now the mayors competing, eric garcetti in los angeles and cincinnati mayor. great to see you both.

mayor garcetti, you always have the number one finger up there. mayor from cincinnati, you have to pay off after the game, since are you the host city, mayor garcetti, i'll let you start. >> well, first of all, i care deeply about the education of our cincinnati students. so we will do everything we can to make sure they can go to school on monday. the two of us decided to do a traditional bet and untraditional bet. the traditional part is the winner has to wear the opponent's jersey at a press conference. i was so moved by the buffalo bills, the winning city we'd give a do nation to the children's hospital of the losing city. we have two amazing children's hospitals, one in cincinnati, the best of the west. here in lay, the best of the west. we decide to do something good.

>> chiefs after that they beat the bills donated like $400,000 to a children's hospital in buffalo afterwards. mayor, school students? cincinnati schools get day off on monday. is that win or lose or contingent on the bengals winning the game in. >> look, your question is irrelevant. we're going to win. the school will have the day off for planning super bowl parade already. we did land on this bet. other ideas we had was to change los angeles name to loss angeles with the bengals name. garcetti, he's just wrong. the bengals are american's team. we are emblematic of city, dunk u young, diverse, hungry, we got that cincinnati swagger. i am very confident we will succeed on sunday. >> wow, joe, there is a lot of

confidence on this i like when a guest starts with willie, your question is irrelevant. something we like to hear around here. >> yes, something we hear an awful lot. >> it is. >> for the question, after the show on twitter, you name it. so, mayor garcetti, the questio that was asked by a late-night comedian is will los angeles fans make the long drive to actually show up? >> we're going to dominate. we'll be gracious in every way except one. we'll have the trophy. this is why clooney and spielberg's hometown is cincinnati but their home is los angeles. this is chile versus chilly. the real west versus the midwest. we'll have a great experience. it will be safe and enjoyable. but i'm sorry, you'll have to go home empty-handed. >> mayor, mayor, look at the

numbers here, man. come on, there were like 150 people that showed up at your pep rally. we had 30,000 people show up at ours in freezing temperatures. rob lowe is rooting for the rams. everybody else in the country is rooting for the bengals. willie around joe, you're both fans of nfc teams, the eagles and the giants, but you've got to show love to the bengals. jump on to the bandwagon. we need that david tyree helmet. >> mayor, you know, i was just going to say that i was partial to the bengals because i'm a patriots fan and they beat the rams at the super bowl twice in the last decade. but you made the david tyree reference. sorry, that won't happen anymore. cincinnati as we know has never won a super bowl. to be fair, the l.a. rams haven't ether. that was in st. louis when they got their title. what would it mean to folks in

cincinnati? it's synonymous with decades of failure. what would it mean to region if they win on sunday? >> look, the last time we won a playoff game was 31 years ago. the last time the bengals were in the super bowl is 1988, 1989. i was 6 years old. this is not your grandparents' bengals or your grandparents' cincinnati. we're dope. we have incredible institutions bike procter & gamble, g.v. aviation, kroger. we have the third best children's hospital in the world. we are the capital of sport with our college football playoff cincinnati bearcats, our super bowl-winning cincinnati bengals, and we're a finalist to be a host city to host the world cup in a couple of years. if you are not applying to uc or investing your dollars in cincinnati, you are crazy. if you can live and work anywhere in the country, i want you to choose cincinnati. >> i love a guy with a light touch. >> yeah. >> there you have it.

mayor garcetti, there's a reference to the st. louis rams. of course we love st. louis. everybody loves st. louis. god bless st. louis. but come on. i'm a falcons fan. it's been a long, arduous ride. but i remember back to the old nfc west days when it was the rams and the falcons and the 49ers and the saints. and for me growing up seeing the rams every weekend, it was really strange when los angeles lost their team, which, i mean, heck, even, you know, heaven can wait was based on playing for the rams. we grew up with the l.a. rams. i'm wondering for you as a kid, born and raised in encino, an l.a. guy, how exciting is it for you to have the super bowl come back to los angeles, have the rams in there? it's got to be -- this has to be extra special. >> it's a dream come true, joe.

i feel like an 8-year-old all over again. i was at the rose bowl where we unfortunately lost to the steelers, and i've been waiting for this moment. i think we've been waiting for 20 years for a team. i love cincinnati. i've been to cincinnati. i have family from ohio. i've helped cincinnati out with its transportation measure recently. but i don't have to do a long pitch. all i have to say is 88 degrees in february, and this is going to be an amazing game. this is the most beautiful place in the world to live. it's america's team in some way, the rams, because we have brought together people from all around the this country, and we are waiting for 20 years for this moment and l.a. is going to not be cocky, just confident. we're confident of what we've got and what talent we have here. we invite everybody to celebrate afterwards with the l.a. rams. >> mayors eric garcetti and mayor puredal, bay the way, the pain inflicted on me growing up,

the cincinnati reds, pete rose, you all would beat the brains out of my atlanta braves when we were losing 100 games a year. good luck to both of you. you have to final world, mayor. >> thanks so much for having me on. i really appreciate it. i'm so grateful that people are starting to see how special cincinnati is. mayor garcetti, i look forward to hanging out with you for the rest of the weekend. >> nice. >> all right. >> all right. thank you both very much for being on this morning. this could be fun, this weekend. by the way, kind of nice way to end the week, an 11-year-old in texas had a very special day to her church's father/daughter sans. audrey lost her father in march and her grandfather who would have been her stand-in date to the dance died just five weeks later. audrey still wanted to go to the dance, so her mom tried to think of someone to take her. her daughter's favorite nfl

player came to mind, the philadelphia eagles anthony harris. she took a chance and sent him an instagram message. to her surprise, harris answered right away saying if the eagles didn't make the playoffs, he'd be happy to be audrey's date. when it was clear the eagles' season was over at the end of january, harris flew to texas to take auld rhee to the dance. he also paid for audrey to get a new dress and shoes as well as have her hair and makeup done, saying he wanted her to, quote, feel like a princess. harris said, quote, i just want to try and help her cope through that experience without her father being there. i had people in my life sometimes, complete strangers, that were very supportive of me, so i wanted to do the same for her. you don't have to know somebody to help them. what a great, great message to end the show with, joe. >> a beautiful message.

willy, that was her favorite nfl star. i think i have a new favorite nfl star too. just a beautiful, beautiful story. >> i was just thinking the same thing, and i'm a giants fan. i guess i have to root for the eagles or at least one guy on the eagles now. what a beautiful gesture by him to go out of his way to do that and make that such a special moment. should be a fun game this weekend. jonathan, i am sticking with my bengals pick. you going to ride them to the super bowl as well? >> i am as well, willie. i think it will be a good game. i think relatively low scoring, but the bengals have a little magic and never have won a title. i think joe burrow is rising and their kicker, so clutch. >> on the muss bus? >> i hope we continue our winning streak and also supporting the bengals this weekend. >> that dulsz it for us this morning. stephanie ruhle picks up the coverage after a final quick break. the coverage after a final quick break.

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i'm stephanie ruhle. it's friday, february 11th. buckle up and let's get smarter. the january 6th committee is meeting as we speak amid a ton of new developments surrounding

donald j. trump. white house records from the afternoon of the 6th show a huge gap with no phone calls going in or coming out from donald trump. the problem is we already know he spoke to at least two republican lawmakers during that very period. so the big question is, why aren't those calls in the official record? speaking of records, the "washington post" is reporting some of the documents that trump took back to mar-a-lago in florida were very clearly marked "top secret," potentially opening the door to legal problems for trump and more of his staff. let's bring in nbc's leigh ann caldwell on capitol hill, neil cotay, msnbc legal analyst, tim miller, writer at large for "the bulwark," and yamiche alcindor, mold ray or the of "washington beat. "leigh ann, what is going on with the january 6th committee meeting right now? i mean, there's a lot that came out this week. >> reporter: good morning, stephanie.