everything. and how it hasn't, like, derailed us. >> you think about what -- how she would want you to live and how she would want you to keep going. that's what i've just been trying to do. >> that's all for this edition of "dateline." i'm natalie morales. thank you for watching. r watchig ♪♪ welcome to the show. i'm zerlina maxwell. we begin with president biden's pending decision on who should replace justice stephen breyer on the supreme court. the president has said he will announce his nominee by the end of this month. thursday night, he said this to nbc's lester holt. >> short list are nominees who are incredibly well qualified and documented.

>> what's the number you're at, four, five, six? >> i've taken four people and done the deep dive on them, meaning the thorough background checks and see if there's anything in the background that would make them not qualified. >> nbc news is reporting that there are three top candidates who are all judges, federal appeals court judge ketanji brown jackson. california state supreme court justice leondra krueger, and michelle childs. the longer list includes other judges as well as a leading civil rights lawyer as well as a law school professor. it is really, really exciting to see so many highly qualified black women under consideration for the supreme court. and it is very long overdue, i should say. look, this decision is a crucial one because the issues coming before the court are crucial and as existential, like voting

rights, abortion rights, and efforts to address climate change. a group of 14 black congresswomen say biden needs to pick a nominee who has, quote, a record of working to advance racial justice and eradicating entrenched white supremacy. the question is, who should it be? who should join forces with justices sotomayor and elena kagan in the court's liberal wing? joining us to discuss is the senior ed for of law and policy for rewired law school and podcast of "boom lawyered." also with us is the director of democracy policy at indivisible. i want to play something else that president biden said on thursday to lester holt, and i'll get your reaction on the other side. >> i'm not looking to make an id logical choice. i'm looking for someone to replace judge breyer with the

same kind of capacity judge breyer had. with an open mind, who understands the constitution and interprets it in a way that is consistent with the mainstream interpretation of the constitution. >> what does he mean by mainstream interpretation of the constitution? is that a play for republican votes? what is that? >> it was the a very odd answer to that question. i'm not sure what he said. someone who could replace breyer and has the same capacity. okay. this woman is going to be a jurist. this woman going to be intelligent. this woman is going to be somewhat liberal. then i guess i don't understand what it is he's trying to say. what i would hope he is trying to stay with respect to the mainstream interpretation of the constitution is perhaps it's time to look at how the people feel about these important constitutional issues that are going to arise, right? we are looking at a world where roe versus wade is going to be decimated, and the polls for abortion rights is above --

let's just say the majority of the country does not want roe versus wade to end. i would hope that the mainstream interpretation of the constitution would be moving away from this originalist point of view, from this textualist point of view, saying we have to look at the words and think about what the framers would have thought. frankly, the framers weren't particularly friends to black people, particularly to black women. so i'm not particularly interested in looking at the constitution from that framework. and i think that it is bizarre that we have to pretend that that's what we need to do. that these white men, who were slave holders, by the way, somehow knew what was going to be necessary in terms of the constitution in 2022. >> what's funny about the whole textualist, originalist position, i point out i'm a black woman and not an originalist. surprise, surprise. because i wasn't a full person or even a consideration, a thought. i wasn't even an afterthought

when they wrote that. i was property. our conservative supreme court is viewed by many as partisan and out of touch with the majority of the american people, as imani said. we're talking about abortion rights. we're talking about voter protections. majority of american people support that. even gun safety, majority issues. when they go through the conservative courts, of course, we know how that turns out. lay out for us why the court's legitimacy could be at risk in this particular moment and how you think this nomination, depending on who the president selects, can help to restore at least some faith in the court? >> well, it certainly will restore some faith. as you said, this is well past due, to have a black woman on the supreme court. the great news is we have this wonderful list of highly qualified nominees. it is an embarrassment of riches, how many great nominees we have under consideration at the moment.

but something that sonia sotomayor said earlier this year, will the court survive the stench of the partisanship we've seen going on in that institution? she was specifically referring to an abortion case they were hearing, about whether or not a mississippi ban on abortion after 15 weeks could continue. it sounded obvious from the oral arguments that the conservatives were ready to ditch roe or make it no longer recognizable to those of us who support abortion rights. will the court survive the stench? one nominee, even an extraordinary, highly qualified black woman nominee is not going to help the court survive the stench. you would need four more justices. we would need to expand the court if we really wanted to fix that problem. because these conservative justices, it's not just that i or progressives have sort of petty grievances with the decisions they make. the decisions they are putting down, either on the shadow docket or those that have been fully briefed and argued, are not rooted in any sort of real interpretation of the law or the

constitution. they're tenuous. they're disingenuous decisions aimed at helping republicans score the objectives of helping conservatives secure political outcomes beneficial to republicans. this is not a difference in opinion of how we interpret the law or constitution. the only way to fix that is not just to confirm the first black woman to the supreme court but to pass a law in congress that adds at least four more seats, so that we can make the partisans -- partisan conservatives on the supreme court irrelevant, basically, to how the rest of us want to live our lives. >> that's a lot of steps. they're all important to know. it is important to know what they are. imani, the first black federal judge down in alabama is asking president biden not to appoint ketanji jackson. he points out a case when she declined a settlement that would have benefitted thousands of black workers at lockheed.

the white house is defending her record. there are similar concerns about michelle childs because of her past work as a corporate lawyer. what is your take on the criticisms as names come out? people are free to examine and critique their records. >> i think that as someone who used to work in corporate law, you know, i was a big -- i worked in big law. i worked for banks and corporations. i don't now. so i think it is a little bit unfair to saddle someone's prior work history, to sort of hang it around their neck and say, you're not really qualified or you don't have the same idealogical objectives that we're looking for. by the same token, i think it would be fatuous to ignore the fact that michelle childs seems to be a centrist, middle of the road judge. she's been known to be anti-worker in a state that is ranked very, very low when it comes to worker protections.

she has ruled against, for example, incarcerated people looking for justice when it comes to cruel and unusual punishment. when i'm thinking about someone who is going to be the first black woman on the supreme court, i'm thinking of someone who is going to be in the thurgood marshall style of ideology. i'm not sure michelle childs is that person. but, you know, i have to say, i am a little bit, i guess, hesitant to sign on with anyone lindsey graham favors. lindsey graham and the republicans have shown themselves to not be good faith actors, right? so when lindsey graham comes out and says, i really like michelle childs, it makes me think, why do you really like michelle childs? is this because you think she's centrist enough to get past the republicans and, therefore, won't be a problem, won't be the sort of person that's going to make sure lgbtq people still have rights, that abortion rights are somehow able to make a comeback? if the republicans are pushing a

candidate, i think that is reason enough to look at the candidate. i don't see the same thing with ketanji brown jackson. she has not sort of generated that same level of, look at me, we're so excited about this person, that michelle childs has, i think, from clyburn and lindsey graham. >> it is exciting. i actually like the exercise of looking at these extremely qualified and impressive black women. i think we should, i don't know, make more lists of impressive black women and just go through them weekly. i feel like it is an important exercise. meghan and imani, thank you so much for joining us, to start us off. please stay safe. coming up, the disastrous week in presidential documents. before you ask, it has absolutely nothing to do with her emails. we'll be right back. we'll be right back.

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this has been quite a week when it comes to investigating the insurrection and the former president donald trump. remember this image? when speaker nancy pelosi ripped up a copy of president trump's state of the union in 2022. now, former chief of staff mark meadows wants to use it as a way to avoid the awful truth that his former president, president trump, possibly ripped up historical documents and

possibly shoved some down the toilet. >> when we talk about, well, this was ripped up, it was taped back together, obviously, that was preserved. it's supposed to show a nefarious purpose. though, they'll ignore nancy pelosi ripping something up on national tv behind the president. we couldn't find those documents either. somehow, she got a pass. >> i want to be really clear here. speaker pelosi ripping up a single copy, a copy of a speech on a document, the contents of which were already made to the entire public and the press. it's just not the same thing as violating the law. specifically, the law i'm talking about is the presidential records act. because the former president's decision to rip up documents and even flee with some of them to his estate at mar-a-lago, the house oversight committee is opening an investigation. despite all of this, we haven't

heard a single peep out of the people who used to stand behind donald trump and chant "lock her up" with regards to my former boss, hillary clinton. and the silence is deafening. but there is one woman who is not silent right now. she's speak out, or should i say, wearing out. hillary clinton is now selling hats that say "but her emails." if anyone deserves to be getting the last laugh out of this, it is hillary rodham clinton. joining me is susan del percio. can republicans dig themselves out of this hole? it is hilarious for mark meadows to sit there and say basically the pdf printout of the state of the union, which everyone has a copy of, that's the same thing as donald trump flushing actual documents or potentially classified documents down the toilet or taking them off to his resort at mar-a-lago. >> well, you can't make this up. just like you can't make up the

fact that mark meadows is the one who called his own book "fake news" when the president didn't like the recount of one of his stories. there's nothing mark meadows won't say to make the former president happy. let's be clear about that. i mean, it's just ridiculous. you know, i did some googling today, and i just came across so many statements by mark meadows, demanding that people testify in front of his committee back in 2018 when it was abouthillary clinton's emails. now, he won't even testify in front of the select committee, january 6th select committee. i find, you know, him just laughable, frankly. but the deafening silence from other republicans is disturbing. because this is, frankly, a layup. this is easy to say. if there were classified documents, that is wrong. there should be an oversight

investigation because, on a serious note, there's a lot of things to consider. how did those documents leave the white house? what was the -- there are procedures for things like this. were they not followed? were they ordered not to be followed? what protocols will be in place to prevent it from happening in the future? lay it out. yes, the initial donald trump tearing up documents, completely not allowedly ststatute. he's been called out on it. i think he'll get into a little trouble but probably not a whole lot. >> you make an important point about the normal procedure. just to be clear, for the folks at home, like, it's funny he was flushing documents down the toilet when paper shredders exist. he was weird he was ripping up documents the end of every meeting when paper shredders exist. but there could be national security implications because of what is in some of these documents that he's taking off in a box that's, like, not boxed appropriately or whatever, off

to mar-a-lago. so the procedures are in place to protect the information because there are national security and policy implications. so just to be clear, it's funny, but it is also very serious. i want to also turn to another thing that happened this week, which is that the rnc censured liz cheney and adam kinzkinzing. then mitch mcconnell yelled at the rnc. molly fast said, this week has been an exercise in performative trumpism. which i think is exactly what's happening here. it's not a real rift. it's more like, be a little quieter about it. we still all support trump and the big lie, but don't go out here censuring people and saying that the insurrection, which there is video of, was a legitimate political debate. so is it a real rift? do you think they're really in a fight, or do you think it's just about how they're performing

their loyalty to donald trump? >> well, what the rnc did in censuing liz cheney and adam kinzinger and using that, you know, there was just a typical day of public discourse at the capitol on january 6th, is completely absurd, wrong, and we know that wasn't true. but what mitch mcconnell did, you know, a lot of people are saying, oh, he stood up. he's fighting against trump. i don't think that's the case, zerlina. what i know about mitch mcconnell is he likes to win. his focus is on winning. he knows he is not the majority leader today because of donald trump and georgia. he does not want donald trump with this message for the next eight months because he knows it will cause him to potentially lose being the majority leader. it is pure and simple. mitch mcconnell, only thing on his agenda is to win. does it cause a potential rift? yes. but it is not one based on

principle. >> it is an important distinction. i think, you know, for all the folks who are like, oh, they're in a fight. the gop is having a battle. i'm like, actually, they're not. mitch mcconnell was like, what you're doing is bad politics. stop it. be quiet. stop doing that. what do you think is, you know, a compelling narrative going into the midterms? because with -- there are so many revelations this week, just this week, about donald trump potentially violating several other laws. i mean, we've just been -- for the last five years, people who didn't go to law school, they feel they went to law school because they learned about on obstruction of justice in a way you never thought you know, or about the impeachment process. what do you think, based on what we learned this week, there may need to be a narrative push over holding donald trump legally

accountable. we impeached him twice, and he was still the president. >> yeah. i think that's an argument that can be made at 30,000 feet by the dnc, for example. that works. coming out with on zinger ads which will be very easy to do, given the former president just loves to riff. but at the same time, i don't think that members of the house or senate should really focus on anything to do with donald trump. they need to focus on their districts. they need to start flipping the script on republicans about joe biden's successes. talk about what they're doing. you know, there is an imagery to be had, that we're working for you and this is what these guys do, and show some of the horrible imagery from january 6th. but they've got these folks running for election, they need to stay on their message. that's the economy. people are sick and tired of donald trump. that's not to say the work that's being done and the things we found out this week and prior

and probably what we'll learn in the next several months to come isn't critical and an important part of our history. but that's not how people vote on midterms. i hope they stay focused on their good news they can deliver to their voters. >> susan del percio, one of my favorite people to talk about politics with. thank you so much for being here today. please stay safe. coming up, big setback for parents with children under the age of 5. but could there be a silver lining? we'll talk about it when we're back. back wahoooo! (vo) you can be well-groomed. or even well-spoken. (man) ooooooo. (vo) but there's just something about beinwell-adventured. (vo) adventure has a new look. discover more in the all-new subaru forester wilderness.

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the debate over when to declare the covid-19 pandemic over and done with so we can move on with our lives intensified this week. a number of democratic governors facing growing public pressure began announcing the rolling back of their state's mask mandates. the policy shifts, however, don't support one basic fact. the pandemic isn't over yet. hate to tell ya. these decisions to begin lifting mask mandates are ones president biden believes are, quote, probably premature. >> are you afraid, though, that some states and cities are moving too quickly to loosen indoor mask mandates? >> well, you know, it's -- i committed that i would follow the science. the science is put forward by the cdc and the federal people.

i think it's probably premature, but it's -- you know, it's a tough call. >> president biden is sticking by the cdc's guidance. in case you needed a refresher, the cdc still recommends people mask up indoors and in public spaces, regardless of their vaccination status. meanwhile, we learned today that pfizer has postponed its application for fda approval of its vaccine for kids under the age of 5. the vaccinemaker is awaiting new data, expected to come in april, that would show three doses may provide a higher level of protection for kids in joining me now is dr. ebony hilton, an anesthesiologist at the university of virginia and msnbc contributor. dr. hilton, i want to start with the pfizer news and we'll go to the masking maybe with the pandemic news. let's talk about this pfizer vaccination for young kids and babies. what's your reaction to pfizer

delaying the approval process for expanding use of the vaccine to young children, and what does it mean? >> right. you know, it's one of those things i always say, if the science says to wait, the science says to wait. i hope this, again, will prove that parents that things are not being rushed through. that we want to see the data. do i expect to to be delayed more than a couple weeks, within the next month? no, i don't expect it to go further than that. but it shows, again, that the process is true. again, to the parents, because we know for the age groups of 5 to 17, we have lagged in vaccinations of those children. it has shown. the omicron variant has really targeted our children, to the point i'm now calling it the pediatric pandemic. because we know they are largely making up the cases by which we have these positive covid cases. i do hope parents see this as a benefit that we are following the necessary steps to say this

is actually safe. that is not in question at this point. really, what they are looking at is the efficacy. does it boost the immune system in the way we hopes the vaccines will? what i anticipate is they're holding off because we'll need three doses for the children, just like we need the three doses of the adults. >> why are you calling it a pediatric pandemic post omicron surge? what made that surge different from the previous surges, where this one gets a new name? >> right. you know, it's one of those things, we see with each variant that a different age group is being targeted, right? beginning of the pandemic, everyone said, oh, kids are safe, which i absolutely hated. we know there's more consequences to covid than just death. but what we do know is that the omicron variant has shown that children are not safe from covid-19. in fact, now 12 million children have been infected with covid-19. 6.4 million being positive since september of last year. so we see the numbers are just truly growing. in fact, within the last 26

weeks, we've had no less than 100,000 children each week being diagnosed with covid-19. so when i say this is a pandemic of pediatrics, it's because at this stage, where adults have been largely able to be vaccinated for over a year, now all of a sudden politicians and those persons in leadership positions are saying, let's remove the masks because we are now safe. what about our children who are now literally less than 5 years old, they cannot be vaccinated? have we forgotten they actually do matter, right? so we do the intersection of masklessness in a pandemic. you know they are unvaccinated. the most vulnerable persons are going to be those children. that's why i'm calling it the pediatric pandemic. because we have not gotten over covid-19. covid-19 is not done with us. apparently, the adults in the situation have said that we are tired and we want to move on with life. meanwhile, our 5-year-ol5-year- 3-year-olds, 2-year-olds are

left to fend for themselves, and it is shameful. >> it is such a good point about the -- putting these kids out here with no vaccine and no mask. i mean, we started off by talking about the news everybody is talking about throughout this week, which is a variety of states throughout this week have announced they're removing mask mandates. president biden said that's premature. you just articulated why it puts those young children particularly at high risk. i mean, is it too soon? is this going to be a problem we or a decision we may regret in the short term or even in the long term? >> absolutely. you know, instead of calling it the boomers and generation-x and generation, you know, y, this generation is supposed to be the generation-a. you can call them, possibly, the long covid generation. because what we do know, long covid does impact children. at this point, if we are removing these mitigating factors that keep them safe from infection, then we are saying that we are okay with them developing this condition. we do know that studies are

showing between 10 and upwards of 50% in some studies, but roughly they kind of fall between the 10% to 20% of all children who get diagnosed with covid-19 can develop long covid. what does that mean? we've already seen studies that show these children who are exposed to covid-19 have a highly likelihood of being diagnosed with diagnosis. that's oneorgan, the pancreas. are the children going to have myocarditis, and what will it mean? the possibility of arrhythmia and interventions adults have to consider. what does it mean for the child when they complain of being fatigued? is it because they're developing covid brain, as we're calling this with adults? we know that studies are now showing that covid can interact and impair the receptor which is shown to be also impaired in alzheimer's. are wewe setting up our childre

for a pathology that will affect them the rest of their lives when we don't have to? we have not addressed the ventilation in classrooms or the overcrowding in classrooms. we have not addressed the fact that many communities depended on mobile vaccination stations that now largely disappeared. who is going to vaccinate those children? we have not addressed the fact we don't have school nurses in every single public health system. so who exactly are these children supposed to turn to when the leadership is saying, you want to remove masks. we don't care about vaccination status at this point anymore. we'll just carry on with life because we're tired. the children don't have the luxury of being tired because they're not protected. that's why i need adults to start thinking and acting like adults. >> it's such a good point to end on. i feel -- i feel so bad for parents of young children or

even parents of immunocompromised children. people are like, i'm annoyed by the mitigation steps i have to take or i don't want to wear a mask. do you have diabetes? do you have a condition where covid-19 could be potentially severe for you? so be quiet. just put the mask on to help your fellow neighbor. i doesn't make any sense, why this has become such a big deal. it is not this way in every country on the planet. dr. hilton, thank you so much for being here. please stay safe. coming up, anti-abortion activists are doubling down on trying to eliminate a woman's right to choose. next, we'll tell you about a really disturbing bill out of the state of oklahoma that includes an abortion database. get into it when we're back. get into it when we're back. hey google. ♪ ♪ ♪

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the supreme court is likely to either gut or overturn roe v.

wade when it rules on a mississippi law banning abortion after 15 weeks. so you would think anti-abortion activists would be preparing to pop the champagne and celebrate the end of our constitutional right to reproductive choices, right? but no. no, they're not doing that. instead, the anti-abortion movement is doubling down. in the state of oklahoma, one of many pending anti-abortion bills sounds like it really could have come straight out of the "handmade's tale." the pregnant person could call a hotline and be connected with a person who is legally not allowed to refer the patient to an apportion provider. the bill's republican sponsor says the purpose is to connect pregnant people with resources. reproductive rights advocates point out if oklahoma really wanted to help pregnant people, it'd work to reduce the black women who die during pregnancies and childbirth. oklahoma's rate of maternal

mortality is three times higher for black people in the state than white people. it feels like priorities are off. grace howard, assistant professor at san jose university, and the author of "the pregnancy police," which feels aptly timed. it'll be published by the university of california press. lay out what this bill would do and why you said it would expand the state's surveillance apparatus. >> sure. so when i look at this bill, i just see so many red flags. you know, each pregnant person is going to call this hotline and be asked a series of invasive questions. they'll be assigned a number which needs to be in the patient's medical records. what is the enforcement mechanism here? the government says they need to be able to pair a name and a number. otherwise, clinics could write any random number, and there would be no way of ensuring compliance. the bill said they'll be screening patients were coercion

and abuse, which is something abortion clinics already do. oklahoma has an ugly track record when it comes to punishing abused women. just today, an oklahoma woman is being sentenced for first degree murder after her boyfriend murdered her baby son while she was at work. hundreds of other women in the state have faced a similar fate. at least 70 pregnant people in oklahoma have been arrested and charged with crimes against their own pregnancies. i can't help but wonder if the screening on these phone calls would be used for similar purposes. to me, this bill reads as a surveillance video beta test in a state gearing up for a post-roe world. >> why would they want to track people who seek out abortion services? what is the purpose of expanding the surveillance state in oklahoma? >> sure. i mean, i think that there are a lot of things going on here. a lot of -- i'm not sure how much i want to get into their heads. is this about some, you know, vision of ideal family and motherhood they're trying to impose by making it harder to

access abortion? are they literally testing out something that they might use after roe falls, to try to track people who end their pregnancies or who have miscarriages and stillbirths? is this about ensuring the existence of an impoverished underclass? is it driven by racist views of, like, white extinction, which drove the criminalization of abortion last time our country did this, you know, over 100 years ago. >> it is fascinating to think of the reasoning. all the things you listed are bad. so any of those reasons would be bad. >> exactly. >> explain why you new book is called "the pregnancy police." it makes me think of the texas law where vigilantes can sue anyone who helped someone get an abortion from literally any part of the country. they don't even have to live in texas. from maine, they can sue you because you drove your friend to seek out an abortion. >> sure. so i call it the "pregnancy

police" because there have been so many different kinds of cases where pregnant people have been surveilled and regulated and controlled. people who are seeking abortion but also people who want to continue their pregnancies and give birth. i have analyzed arrests of many hundreds of pregnant people who were charged with crimes against their own pregnancies. law enforcement has used internet search histories and surveilled people's mail. they've looked at text messages and emails, among other things, to build cases against folks for these pregnancy-specific crimes. i'm talking about things like surviving a suicide attempt. self-managing an abortion. testing positive for drugs, which is not generally a prosecutable thing, right? unless you're pregnant, i guess. or even trying to have a vaginal birth after caesarean. one of the most concerning things i found is, in most cases, it is the health care providers who are the ones reporting their patients.

depending on the state, health care providers may be required to violate the medical privacy of their patients if a fetus is a child. we know turning doctors into detectives damaging patient trust and drives people away from seeking care. >> i definitely don't think my health care provider should be a detective and try to find out all of the details about my reproductive health care choices. that's not their role. i mean, what do you think is the most effective messaging at this point against bills like this? i mean, often -- i mean, everyone out there should know, in oklahoma, every session the legislature even pre-introduces anti-choice bills, oklahoma is known for this. help people at home understand how they can push back against this movement to strip pregnant people of their reproductive freedom. >> sure. one thing that i think it's really important to do is not just caught up in this anti-abortion pr stunt

rebranding, that this is about protecting women, right? they learned it was a bad look when you only censure fertilized eggs and embryos and fetuses. now, every matter matters. if every mother matters, create a voluntary database, expand the social services, and work on your high infant and internal mortality rates. they're not doing that. it is hard to believe they actually care. another thing that i think it's really important to keep in mind is they are not just coming after you if you are seeking an abortion. right. if you look at the cases that have been coming out from states all around the country, we're not just talking about the deep south here, pregnant people are getting child protective services called because they test positive for opioids when they eat a poppyseed cake. that's a case out of chicago. so we really need to be vigilant about this. we need to make sure that we are doing the work of connecting all of these related conditions

together. right. all pregnant people are made vulnerable when we're surveilling them and taking their rights away. >> it is such an important point. i'm so glad we ended on it because people need to understand, it's not just people who are seeking out abortions. it's people who have miscarriaged or complications. it's all of the things, the whole list of things. everyone is at risk when these laws pop up and become law. grace howard, thank you so much for being here and helping us understand what's going on in oklahoma. please stay safe. coming up, closer look at the lives of newly freed black americans post civil war. how freedom towns were created during reconstruction and some that are still around today. we'll be right back. n and some that are still around today. we'll be right back.got the bai. i also earn 5% on travel purchased through chase on this rental car. that lake is calling my name! don't you get seasick?

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msnbc contributor and host of the "into america" podcast jermaine lee has been taking an intenth look at the establishment of black towns across the south during reconstruction. thursday i spoke with him about conversations with descendants and residents of the still standing free tom town, promised land, south carolina, as well as new leaders trying to establish a similar day modern experiment. jermaine has more on their stories in a brand new report. >> along highway 10 in rural south carolina, there's a town called promised land.

it was founded in 1870, a safe place for and by formerly enslaved people. after newly-elected black lawmakers created a commission that would sell land and by extension, independence to black people, when others wouldn't. what year does this is a? >> 1883. >> reporter: reverend willie neil norman, jr., is a descendant. >> people ask me where i'm from. i'm in the promised land but en route to the promised land. >> reporter: 4 million african americans emerged from the civil war, finally free, determined to reunite with family and build new lives from scratch. i know during reconstruction there was a big effort to reunite with family. >> absolutely. >> reporter: an exhibit at the national museum of african american history and culture focusing on reconstruction and legacies explores their journey. this month, msnbc and the "into america" podcast are teaming up

with the museum for a rare glimpse behind the glass. >> some of the items part of the history and reminds us these are everyday people who just are trying to survive. >> reporter: from the late 1900s through the early 20th century, free black people established more than 1,200 settlements in towns across the deep south and west, promised land, south carolina, is one of the few that still exists. >> it's a very much american credo. you want to have land and make your own choices. >> reporter: the reverend's wife is another descendant of early settlers. >> the longing of being able to have your own and that's what was instilled from the generations on down. >> reporter: deep in rural georgia, about two hours southeast of atlanta, ashley scott is leading a group of 19 black famiies in modern day black town building. >> we want to create a community where people are not just making

it, but being able to thrive versus just survive. >> reporter: the dream is freedom georgia. the families purchased 500 acres of old timberland they hope to turn into a black mecca, where all residents share an economic stake and instead of a traditional police force, a peace force offering social services first, handcuffs second. >> we hope freedom will be a foundation for building our own institutional structures so that racism is not there from its origination. >> reporter: a new generation of black families, rooted in the hopes of yesterday, but reaching toward the promises of tomorrow. a new generation of folks looking for black freedom, using the past, combined with the present to create a black future. jermaine lee, nbc news. >> how do i sign up to move to freedom, georgia? that looks cool. thank you so much for that.

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but it was sped up and took only under three years. the vice president, alongside epa administrator michael reagan and new jersey governor murphy conducted the project as to why the project is so important and why it impacts the health of americans. let's take a listen to that. >> it's hurting our babies. over half of the children of our nation who are under the age of 6 are at risk on this issue. it is well documented and at this point, without debate, what this does in terms of impeding the god-given capacity of our children to learn and to thrive. it is a public health issue. it is an equity issue. it is an issue of education. it is an issue of whether we are willing to invest in our future in terms of investing in our

communities. >> that does it for me. i'm zerlina. find me monday through friday at 6:00 p.m. eastern on peacock on "the choice from msnbc." follow us on facebook, twitter, tiktok and youtube. more news is coming up right here on msnbc. breaking on msnbc, major developments in the russia/ukraine standoff. president biden and vladimir putin set to talk this morning, amid a significant increase in russian troops outside ukraine. the u.s. ordering non-emergency employees to evacuate the embassy in kyev as a biden administration warns russia could launch an assault at any moment. >> we are in the window when an invasion could begin at any time. any american in ukraine should leave as soon as possible. >> former president trump was relentless in his attacks against hillary clinton over her emails and now she's