white house and in that vein of new that is more of that indisputable black and white evidence may soon find the way into the hands of the january committee in the form of visitor logs. president biden once again rejected the ex-president's claims of executive privilege and ordered them to hand over logs citing the urgency of the work ordering them to do it in the next 15 days. "new york times," white house counsel remus said that the documents needed to be disclosed in a timely fashion because quote congress has a compelling need and constitutional protections of executive privilege should not be used to shield from congress or the public information that reflects a clear effort to subvert the constitution itself. "the new york times" adds this, quote committee investigators

have made some progress in recent weeks putting together a better portrait of trump inside the white house on january 6 and who vuz itted with him. in doing so they relied in part on lower level staff members. document requests and the testimony of hundreds of witnesses is allowing the committee do an end run around the trump dead enders. and in the case of the latter text messaging including of meadows to the committee before that sudden about face revealed that the white house chief of staff was a clearinghouse for half-baked ideas how to go about overturning a election. "the washington post" is

reporting on a text message. texted on january 4 with fraud of the vote in atlanta churches. it says is liberal bisz in the mainstream news media and meadows had tixs with other figures vofrled in the effort to overturn the election results. and messages show meadows briefed on the speakers on the ellipse. the january 6 investigation learning all about the inner workings of the trump coup plot is where we start. mike schmidt is here of "the washington post." also joining us betsy woodrowswan. national correspondent for politico and tim mill iris back.

writer for the bull work. mike, take us through what you are reporting. >> so this is a letter from day -- dana remus. the issue is what she is saying is that not only should the national archives hand over these logs but the national archive should do it in a more timely fashion. to me almost as significant as the disclosure about the phone records. let me try to explain why. the january commit tee doesn't have a lot of time to do its work. it's trying to get all the of this done before it could potentially -- the democrats would potentially lose power in the fall and in this letter what it says is that the national archives should hand over

materials in which biden said are basically okay to hand over because of executive privilege within 15 days. and that cuts in half the amount of time that was normally there for handing over documents and if you're the january 6 committee and ask the nets as wide as possible and trying to go down all of these different paths little pieces like that just a few weeks of time to get new pieces of evidence and information are important and potentially helpful to move things along faster so it is not surprising that the biden white house is saying to the national archives hand over these things. what may be more significant is saying do it faster. there is an immediate, huge issue that congress is taking on and need the documents as soon as possible. >> let me show you something

that's stephanie grisham used to describe how porous the border if you will to the white house residence and west wing really were in those weeks. >> there were meetings taking place up there. i don't have visibility into what was discussed and the people there but i can say that mark meadows would have been there and the legal team working on all of the bonkers little plans. the former president did that with a lot of paranoia in the white house and would have people up to the residence. >> betsy, i saw that differently after reading mike's reporting. there were the wackiest and fringey folks with the president's ear by the point and the pillow person and somebody from overstock but what's

interesting is being reminded of the extreme paranoia and avoiding logs and the normal structural things of a white house. phone logs. he was picking up the different phones. visitor log. meetings in the residence. talk about getting things on paper in black and white. >> yeah. it is important because when you have documents detailing the fact that the meetings were arranged or the substance it harder for witnesses to act like they don't remember things. we know that that's a standard tactic that people in trump world took in his administration coming to any of the vast number of scandals that percolating saying they didn't remember the conversations or phone calls and why the written records are so vital and also why this investigation is uniquely

challenging for investigative body that doesn't have the same resource that is the justice department has. it is challenging because the records are incredibly decentralized. they're all over the place. with the written records sent to marlo ga and for a while not in the possession of the u.s. government and spread to the four winds and bringing the bulk and most of the documents in one place to try to make sense of them is something that's really time consuming and labor intensive and part out reason that the letter from the white house's counsel office is so consequential. what they're urged to do is to move expeditiously. the clock is ticking with the

time to figure out the totality of what happened on and before january 6. >> tim, the other thing that strikes me, you interviewed congressman kinzinger and not only is the clock ticking but they have a massive production. i want to read what nbc news is reporting about what those will look like. members of the committee envision hearings too pivotinging to ignore. there's a churn over so i believe media. tell a story stretched out over two to three weeks. suited to an audience that has not breathlessly followed the saga. we have talked about this gap

between shows covering the developments and the public that's not necessarily paying attention to every move of the committee. >> no doubt. they face a challenge. it's worth revisiting. so much of this happened out in the open and so there's so much of people as consumers and not endorsing this view but consumers like i'm sick of this. i get it i think. i think i know what happened. i'm ready to move on. so the committee's aware of the challenge and talked to them about this and they know that they need to present a really compelling vision about what happened. tell a really compelling story of what happened in the weeks leading up to january.

and the thing going for them is unknown things that are at the highest moments of drama. what was the president doing as the capitol is getting stormed? we don't know. was the president standing in the way of efforts of resources there to the capitol? the bulwark we broke the story that mike lindell the pillow person telling the president that he should declare marshal law. how did we break that? watching mike lindell brag about it on the instagram. these are not the smartest criminals in the world. right? but point being that there are other examples that we don't know about who exactly was in those conversations, what did they advocate for. i think the committee by pulling

this altogether is hopefully able to paint a picture to get attention that moved on to other stuff. >> that's a great point. we know so much about the crazy people in the oval office. what are they looking for? mike flynn was there. the pillow guy was there. who are they looking for that they don't already know about? >> i think the commit tee is trying to come up with the base account of what happens leading up to january 6 and during it but what i have wondered about the white house documents and trump in general how helpful will they be? here's why. what we have seen are disclosures about how the president didn't follow the

presidential records act and made it harder to figure out what he was doing. the white house didn't function like a normal white house. we can imagine the obama white house. obama's time mapped down to the minute. if you wanted to meet with him book it months or weeks in advance. the trump white house run in an ad hoc way and ab normal way that in some ways old washington hands would say oh wow, this is great. such a trove. that assumes that they follow the rules and the laws and that assumes that people were actually being badged in or waved in or brought in as visitors in appropriate ways and not just opening the door for mike flynn and friends to come right on in to run up to the residence. i think it remains to be seen how helpful the documents are

and trump could be helped by the fact that they didn't follow the basic norms and laws of the presidential records act in office. >> that said, they didn't communicate in morse code. the colleague kyle cheney with reporting of the phone records category. the january 6 panel seeks phone records. the january 6 select committee issued a subpoena for phone records of alex jones. a sign of the panel's deepening interest in the jones contacts. which proceeded the vie lightning attack on the capitol. late tuesday jones revealed that timothy enlow was notified by at&t that the select committee subpoenaed his phone records.

jones marched from the ellipse with a rally calling for the results not to be certified to the capitol. what are they looking for? >> that's a good question. they didn't detailed in these court filings the specifics but the fact they look at a security guard to alex jones tells us that they're interested not just in jones but the people around him and leaning hard on phone companies to provides phone records from a vastly wide variety of people who had visibility into what happened on january 6. we learn ds that laura cox, the former heads of the michigan republican party next to rudy giuliani making incendiary

comments of fraud and she said that the select committee sought out her phone records. cox is someone not a household name in the wake of being subpoenaed by the select committee. going after the phone records and of a number of other people connected to this shows that they're drawing webs between who was talking to who, what calls were happening, how long was the duration of the calls? trying to find the connections between people with visibility prior to january 6 into the efforts that trump and allies rolling out as it involved trying to reverse the election results. they're not scooping up the contents but looking at the meta

data. that and of its can be eye opening. >> i see it as an ex-president's escape hatch and this is not a criminal investigation or criminal prosecution. there's no evidence of one from the justice department. this is in its entirety a political exercise to show people how in bed with the people doing bad things at the capitol the trump white house and we know what he was directing doj do do and rudy. i wonder if you can imagine what liz cheney and bennie thompson and the investigators are looking for. >> i think trying to paint the color. certainly is not going to be meticulous breakdown of minute by minute of everything

happening on january 6. one in addition to stephanie grisham there are other people. mike pence's chief of staff testified. i think there should be a lot of pressure on mike pence himself to testify. i don't know if he's committed to do that. i think that there are people that despite that trump has loyalists to lie there's birdies who have been and will continue to be willing to participate. and so, i think that between the meta data and the logs, what the committee is looking for is how much more color can we paint? during this time between when the country and the capitol was under attack and when he actually put out a mealy mouthed statement talking about the

patriots attacking it and i think the phone logs shed light on that. >> the stipulated to not be the most useful forensic documents. talk about where the committee is in terms of everything it had fought and going to the supreme court to get the hands on. is there more that they're seeking? is pretty much everything they asked for delivered to them? what is the sense of where the requests and the asks for documents stand as compared to what's delivered and outstanding? >> i think we should make something clear. they have not received the phone logs yet. they went to trump today said that biden said we have to hand the things over and unless a court tells us in 15 days that we can't do that we're going to hand the over to the committee

and donald trump may try to jump back into federal court here to slow it down. it is a play that he's run time and time again and could do here. granted, he just lost an incredibly similar case going up to the supreme court in which the courts basically said it's up to biden. biden can hand these things over. so we're not even at the point where the committee is like sitting there looking at these visitor logs today and trying to piece it together with the other information that we have. we're still two weeks away from what information being handed over, in which trump can try to mount another legal defense. probably won't be a successful one but seeing anything from the trump side it is the stonewalling and the stalling and trump in some ways can be predictable and not surprised to see that in this period of time

but that gives you a sense of what we talk about earlier which is the time issue. how much time does the committee have? is committee is looking at all sorts of different things happening in the weeks and months leading up to january 6. this shows one of the on obstacles they have is the white house saying speed that time up and try to get stuff to the committee faster. >> so fascinating. a look behind the scenes. mike and tim, thank you. betsy sticks around. one of the more noteworthy january 6 defendants in court right now. the founder of the oath keepers is making the case to be let out of jail until trial.

remember spy-gate? trump never let it go and they're back this week again. alleging hacking and intercepting. noun is true and not stopped the story from taking off again. later, tense remains high in ukraine. the u.s. maintains today that there is zero evidence that russia is really doing what they say they're going to do. we'll bring you the latest on that. stay with us. stay with us [bacon sizzles] [bacon sizzles] ♪ [electronic music plays] ♪ [bacon sizzles] ♪ [electronic music plays] ♪

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now to the already charged in the insurrection. today the highest profile defendant the leader of the oath keepers stewart rhodes will get a judge's decision on whether or not to be released from jail before the trial date this year. the attorneys arguing in a 41-page brief no evidence he conspired to block congress to certify the election. his lawyers argue that the oath keepers there as security teams and only entered the capitol quote after learning of a shooting and that there were people in need of medical attention in the capitol building. rose is facing a seditious conspiracy charge. joining us now is frank

figluizzi. betsy woodrow swan is back with us. frank, lawyers have a job and make a deal with whomever their gods is to defend the client as best they can but the argument to go in for medical attention as they maim and disfigure law enforcement officers seems audacious at best. >> everyone is entitled to representation in court but seems to me they do what is called arks in the alternative. he is trying to say, yes, we were waiting for the president to call up the militias with the insurrection act and ready because we had quick reaction forces and weapons and troops in hotels and locations around the district of columbia. yes, we were ready waiting for

the call. by the way, we are only here fehr medical assistance and went in hearing that ashli babbitt was shot. the timeline shows that ashli shot at 2:43 and the oath keepers entered minutes before she was shot and then trying to say, look. we were there for security for certain high-profile people and an executive protection team. you can't argue in the alternative to the point of ridiculousness. i don't think this is going anywhere. i think rhodes is going to be detained and the prosecution made an argument for risk of flight and threat to others and saying by the prosecution we don't think we've found all of his storage facilities.

threat to democracy. i say he stays in detention. >> the public statements of rhodes' attorney and wife, i don't know, a current or former wife, make sure in his mind or describing was an idea acting on orders from the president. i wonder how important that is or has a bearing on this. >> actually, we hear reports from the courtroom that the judge is keenly interested in this line of thinking and wants to hear more about this waiting to be called up by former president trump, then president trump. tell me why you think that would be legal. because he says to the defense attorney you know it is illegal

to have weapons inside the district of columbia? because you say you're a militia doesn't make it so. right? we have a judge seems fascinated by the fallacies in this arguments. i can't wait to get the full debrief of reporters inside the courtroom. >> betsy, i push on this because i've asked reporters who was sitting atop the chain of command of military. it is not a question with a clear answer. no evidence emerged that pence or trump tells the guard to get to the capitol to save lives but the militia members saw trump as atop their chain of command. i wonder how much that is in focus by the 1/6 committee. >> there's no question that investigators across the board and multiple federal judges are

deeply interested in this topic to what extent did the comments that president trump made in the weeks leading up to this january 6, to what extent is a direct line between the comments and the violent actions that supporters engaged in on january 6 and most voices are the people who themselves engaged in the violence. this is a question coming up over and over. did you think that the president out united states was ordering to do it? it is an important way to capture the impact of the words that trump had in the days and weeks leading up to the january 6 attack. to the point of the question of the military that day. not only is something that -- not only a question that's interesting right now and unclear to senior d.c. national

guard officials in the attack. a former top official wrote in a memo saying that ryan mcarthur was not reachable in the january 6 attack. that problem, that communications issue perhaps to be euphemistic highlights how significant the delay was of the national guard arriving at the capitol building and how consequential it was that you had the heavily armed people surrounding the capitol and assumed perhaps that what they were doing somehow had this stamp of approval from the president of the united states. >> betsy, what is your sense of how the justice department sees the stakes of a successful prosecution on the most serious charges of seditious conspiracy?

>> it's something that's of tantamount importance to doj. the basket of charges and the case against bannon. people at the highest level of the department signaled they track both prosecutions closely. care deeply about the outcome. we have trials and juries weigh in. what's really important as the cases are being managed is that there's no unforced errors, no misconduct or overreach to make it so that prosecutors themselves would fumble the ball and something that has happened in prior very high profile doj cases and we know it's something of tantamount importance to managers in the department now making sure they don't do anything that would somehow keep them from being able to win

these cases in court. >> we'll be watching. betsy, thank you so much. frank sticks around. the spreading the disinformation by right-wing media is not new but they're at again misrepresenting a court filing and running wall to wall coverage about that misrepresented depiction. and the effort to reverse it is next. reverse it is next

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over the past few days donald trump and his allies in conservative media totally consumed by a story they say -- wait for it -- is bigger than watergate. we may have missed it. they insist a new court filing from the bill barr appointed special counsel still at it john durham on the origins of the original russia investigation is conclusive saying this. trump was spied upon by the hillary clinton presidential campaign. new york city reporter savage reports this. when durham priled a pretrial motion on friday night he set mock a furor about spying on forler president trump and the

narrative mostly wrong or old news. charlie savage, "the washington post" correspondent is with us. frank is here. this is notable for a couple reasons. you got right at the disinformation peddled about the still ongoing work of durham and if you don't tune in to the events on earth 2 you don't know that it is a big deal on the right. trump being spied upon. take us through the reporting. >> so the filing on friday night said that the -- involved a case of the lawyer that durham has indicted for lying supposedly to the fbi whether he was workinging for the campaign of

clinton. he worked for the democratic party in russia's hacking of its server. it's in dispute if he was working for the party and the filing unrelated to -- largely unrelated and slipped in a paragraph he had gone to the cia in february of 2017 and told them about data suggesting that russian-made smartphones rare in the united states in proximity to the trump tower and white house and connected essentially to the networks. this is something that "the new york times" reported in september, october. and so our initial reaction is we knew that. it had set off in right wing media a firestorm basically saying that this filing has said

that hillary clinton's campaign had paid a technology firm to infiltrate the trump white house servers a ten problem is the filing itself never say it is campaign paid for this. the filing does not say -- use the word infiltrate and doesn't say when the data associated with the white house network came from. they claim that it was trump white house data. the people who -- the cyber security specialists have said this was 2016 data. obama white house data that they were working with. and later in a court filing by this lawyer saying the information presented to the cia involved obama white house data and seem to have two problems. we have the strange russian-made smartphones that are in internet

related data showing up with people surrounding donald trump. that's not clear what that means. someone with a smartphone in the pocket in trump tower and the obama white house. may not be related to each other. but it is a complicated and different story than the notion that hillary clinton paying to infill yate the white house servers with the narrative. >> because the data happens when obama was president. so the most honest effort to strain the facts would be that obama's white house was spied on my hillary's associates? i can't follow the thread out the window from where the good faith efforts and the outright lie starts. >> the whole spying on things is torqued way to put analysis of

the data. this data exists around the world. it is like phone books that when your computer or smartphone looks a -- it has to ping a server to say what's the digital address of the thing of nbc news.com and then that data called dns data is an echo. someone was looking up this server. it exists and the data analyzed by the researcher at georgia tech darpa asked them to look at it for signs of hacking and malicious activity after russian malware was found in the white house and then 2016.

they were looking for signs of a malware pinging weird russian websites in networks in the government. they found this stuff and wrote white papers. involve in the research takes it to the cia. the obama white house era data, might be two issues here. maybe someone had a weird smartphone in the white house. totally unrelated to trump and then a russian phone in the trump area and concerning in their own way and worthy of investigation. was the ask to the cia in february of 2017. but these things have been conflated now into a narrative

of hillary paying to spy on the trump white house which is a number of leaps that are not in the filing and yet have become the narrative in the right wing media ecosystem. >> frank, when i read charlie's story and had to read it a few times to get it straight, i remembered shep smith taking apart the conspiracy theory with no basis in fact and i want to read this from charlie's piece to you. the narratives are based on the misleading present taegs of the facts or misinformation. they tepid to involve dense issues so it requires asking readers to expend mental energy and times.

yet trump allies say it's a cover-up if they don't. what do you make of the effort to say here's this filing, it is dense and confusing but it doesn't say what they say it says? is that important in this age of rampant disinformation on the right? >> well, not only is it important but it is also at risk of peril to yourself. you cited shep smith. what happened to him at fox news trying to explain the truth too much? he is no longer at fox news. so it's really important to take the time to break this down and get the truth out to people. why? because as we're learning there are platforms out there all too happy to provide the simple explanation to an incredibly complicated story. when you do that, when you default to the simple, you're

allowing yourself to go to disinformation. it is pointing a finger at hillary clinton. it is lying about her. it is claiming she may be engaged in criminal activity. in some ways there is another way to take this on. let me do something else. let me say what's not in the john durham filing. if there's fox viewers stopping on this and wonder what this is, let me do this quickly. there's no spying to speak of in a traditional sense of the word in the filing. there's nothing in the filing about hillary clinton paying to infiltrate the trump white house or trump tower. there's nothing in there that speaks to wiretapping. i hear that on the right wing fringe platforms. they had wiretaps. what are you talking about? there's no content.

wiretap is intercepting content of a phone call, an email communication. a microphone in an office. no wiretap in this file jeff gordon there's a legit cyber security firm recognized by the u.s. government trying to study the problem of russia, cyber and allegations of campaign interference and finding a yoda phone pinging in this. it is rare. what do they do this information? they go to the attorney presenting it to the cia and or the fbi. that's where we are right now. i expect the behavior of fox news and continued to be perplexed is the conduct of john

durham. he should have known that the filing would light fire to disinformation echo chambers and put it out there and has a responsibility to say this is really misconstrued. i didn't say this, this, and this and then walk away. will he do that? no. should merrick garland come in and seen ask where he is headed with this particularly with friday hearing coming and sussman to ask the judge to toss the case against him? a good time to say to durham what are you doing and when are you done? yes. >> we're going to have more on what durham is doing and why this story matters. it is important to show you the absolute finger in the electrical socket it caused.

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which is completely disingenuous, misleading and yet took root. >> that was pete strzok on the lasting damage, in his view, that has been done by former ag, bill barr, who of course appointed mr. durham who is still hard at work investigating the investigators. charlie, what does durham still have left to investigate. >> he's got two open cases. this false statement case against the lawyer who brought this information to the cia and who he has said lied about representing the clinton campaign when he went to the fbi about a related matter. then he's got an open case against also making false statements to the fbi in that case. he was the primary source of information or researcher who

gathered the information that went into the notorious steel dossier and he's accused of lying to the fbi about several of his sources for that information. fairly discredited document at this point by far, actually, i would say. so both of these are cases not about government officials who are involved in the official investigation into russia's election interference and whether they were, or the nature of any ties to the trump campaign. these are both outside efforts to understand and put forward subsequently disproving allegations about possible links to trump and russia. and so he's got to finish those cases. both of those cases, although they're narrow in terms of what the charge is, have involved very lengthy narrative indictments and broader chunks of information that he uncovered

in his investigation and it appears that he is, has a theory that he hasn't been able to prove or at least hasn't charged yet that there was a conspiracy involving the hillary clinton campaign to frame trump for collusion with russia to create an impression that trump was tied to russia in some ways that you know, led to the steel dossier, led to the cybersecurity researcher's information coming to the government. what he's not been able to show, at least so far, is that there was a, this was a bad faith. that the cybersecurity researchers didn't believe what they found, what mr. sussamann took to the government. their communications suggested they were more enthusiastic. sort of an insinuation he isn't backing up with actual charges.

i think we're not sure, maybe he's not either. he may be attempting to flip these people. he thinks maybe there is this conspiracy and he hasn't been able to prove it, but michael sussamann will flip and tell him about it. possibly that's where he thinks he's going and he doesn't know if he'll succeed. but from the outside looking in, this is how i understand the theory he's pursuing and what he's not been able to prove so far but has insinuated. >> i guess i'm old enough to remember that robert mueller didn't close all of the cases he had opened. they went back to doj and were handled there. so that seems like a flimsy reason to remain at the full blown investigative office there. i know about both cases because contrary to laura ingram's conspiracy theory about "the new york times," they were written about in "the new york times." thank you so much for spending time with us on this. you can catch more on that interview with pete strzok.

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we continue to see not only these forces, we continue to see critical units moving toward the border, not away. so what we need to see is the opposite. we need to see those forces moving away. we heard what the kremlin said about this as president biden said yesterday, we'd welcome that. the bottom line is this, we're

prepared either way. to engage in diplomacy with russia. we're also prepared for russia aggression. >> a dose of reality there this morning despite russian claims that some of its troops are being withdrawn from the border. that is in fact not the case. at least not now. secretary of state blinken was there on "morning joe" echoing a statement made by the nato secretary general in brussels and state department spokesman ned price reiterated this is how russia operates. >> we know the russian playbook. we know the russians engage in misinformation. in an effort to hide the truth. the threat is very real as you've heard from us for several days now. we are well within the window where putin were he to choose to do so, could order an attack

against ukraine. that has not changed. >> now despite deep concerns of a potentially imminent invasion, the u.s. and our allies remain hopeful that a diplomatic agreement can be reached. today, ukraine held a day of unity in response to recent intelligence that suggested a russian invasion was likely to launch today. "the new york times" is out with a new analysis, a signaling of the high price of war in order to avert it. the times writes this, quote, traditional diplomacy is just one component of this dance. troop movements, sanctions warnings, and legislation, embassy closures, leaders summits and leagues are all aimed in part at proving each country's willingness to carry out certain threats or accept certain risks. it is a form of high stakes negotiation conducted in actions as much words meant to settle the future of europe just as

conclusively as if decided by war would play out. this is not a conflict with just any autocrat. the times also out with new reporting on the obstacles putin poses to the u.s. intelligence community, quote, knowing the intention of any autocratic leader is difficult, but putin, who began his career as a kgb officer is a particular challenge because he oftentimes bans note takers and tells aides little. there's a limit as to how much the intelligence agency can learn. also this, calculus is also likely shifting as he weighs the changing costs of invasion. putin has a history of waiting until the last possible moment to make a decision, constantly reevaluating his options. the still very real threat is

where we start this hour with some of our favorite reporters and friends. michael crowley is here. the diplomatic correspondent with "the new york times." also mark jacobson, a combat veteran who served in afghanistan in 2006 and was former senior adviser to ash carter and kimberly is back. boston globe senior columnist and msnbc political analyst. i want to read something to you, mark, that top friedman writes today. is sleepy joe biden making putin blink? putin has been on such a run about maneuvering the west that it is easy to overwrite him. it's also hard to believe a word that comes out of his mouth. but if putin is sincere when he said tuesday he's ready to continue on the negotiating track to ensure ukraine never joins nato and was also pulling back some of his menacing forces. officials say there's no sign of that yet.

it is because biden's state craft has given putin pause. what do you think of that? >> i think there's good, bad, and a little uncertainty here, too. the good news is we've seen ukrainian resolve. that's going to be key although as what i'm not sure is going well, unity amongst the allies. i think we'll see over the next couple of day, it's going to be important to see the public statements made by european and u.s. leadership. here's the uncertain. has the u.s. done anything that has given putin pause? anything we've done or said in private or signalled quietly to putin in terms of sanctions and how we're going to hurt them that's made him take pause? i don't know the answer to that. we're going to see in the next couple of days, but there's an argument to be made that putin simply wanted to create a crisis

in order to solve it and that's going to make things much more difficult because then we can lose the battle of the negotiations as well. >> i want to play something that you pointed to watching president biden's address to the nation around this time. let's play it. we'll talk about it on the other side. >> i will not pretend this will be painless. there could be impact on our energy prices so we are taking active steps to alleviate the pressure on our own energy markets. we're coordinating with major energy consumers and producers. we're prepared to deploy all the tools and authority at our disposal to provide relief at the gas pump and i'll work with congress on additional measures to help protect consumers and address the impact of prices at the pump. >> you drew our attention to that with your tweet saying that it's new, biden's talk of a national sacrifice.

he has been at these issues and dealing with some of these issues his entire career and it was notable to hear him offering that straight talk. some folks like michael mcfall have been eager to hear him do this. he certainly laid it out yesterday. >> that's right, nicolle. and that was really the pretty much only new thing i heard in those remarks. a lot of it was assembling things we heard before, but it jumped out at me because i had not heard that note from him telling the american people to brace themselves for what may be to come. but part of what that tells me is how seriously the administration takes this. you know, there's a lot of games manship going on. you quoted a great piece that max fisher at "the new york times" wrote about how there's a lot of signaling and messages on both sides trying to warn each other not to cross the line here, but i think the fact that he's willing to say that

suggests that president biden thinks this is very real. it's also a reminder that although we have a lot of economic power to try to punish russia for any kind of military or destabilizing action they might take in ukraine, we don't know exactly what the reverberations of that could be in the global economy. they're likely to hit europe harder than us, but it's quite possible the global financial system will be shaking. energy markets will be shaking and if the crisis escalates, it could get quite serious for average americans. >> this idea of sacrifice and potential pain was something that surprisingly mitch mcconnell came out and endorsed. let me show you that, kim. >> it was much in the president's remarks that i appreciate it. he was right to candidly remind the russian people that neither the united states nor nato nor

ukraine want a war. he was right to emphasize that the world will not shrug or stand idly be if putin tries to invade his neighbor or redraw the map of europe through deadly force. i'm hopeful that president biden will rise to the occasion. a bipartisan group of colleagues and i made clear yesterday, the president would have overwhelming support to use his authority for tough sanctions against russia in the event of conflict. >> so, let's listen to mitch mcconnell isn't something i say often in these two hours as you know, kim, but it is notable that be it through the rapid analysis and desemination or briefings and i imagine they go on at all hours, the president has not only at this point

united the allies in a way that exceeds expectations, but has managed to unite an almost post fact republican minority. at least in the senate. we shouldn't sort of throw a parade for anybody because that's how it's supposed to work, but it is notable in these times. >> it is notable in this moment and of course members of the senate are also working in a bipartisan way to try to pass a bill for additional sanctions that are aimed directly at this conflict in addition to the powers that president biden already has to impose sanctions. and perhaps this sort of unity is exactly what may be making putin rethink his calculus. just think the end point of what putin wants to do is destabilize the west and increase his own influence in eastern europe and elsewhere and it seems so far that what this threat to invade

ukraine has done is unify the west. really solidly against him and leaving him very isolated i guess except for china. and that isn't what he wants and this is part of what we're seeing here. so it's important, it's an area where there is strong bipartisanship. make no mistake, i think if gas prices go up as a result of all of this, there will be republicans trying to point the finger at biden in a political way but in this point right now, it is an important bipartisan unity that is being displayed that is really important as we face this crisis. >> and we highlight it because it may very well turn out to be fleeting, but it just makes me want to ask your thoughts on whether putin miscalculated. >> i'm not sure he miscalculated if again you look at his broader foreign policy objectives. keep the u.s. out of european

affairs. keep weakening the united states by attacking us internally then slice off the piece of the ukraine here and there. what i see is a potential opportunity for him to play off the old minsk agreement and try to sew some disunity between the europeans, ukrainians an the united states and say let's sit down at the table. this is unsettled. let's spend some time settling it and he could end up with an agreement that favors russia, hurts ukraine, but preserves the peace. i think even though there's political unity in the u.s., the longer this goes on, the more putin tries to find ways to breach any sort of unity, i think that there's a risk that he could get what he wants without war. >> michael crowley, take us inside what looked like sort of feverish preparations, any outcome, any choice putin makes, he still is the wild card here

in everyone's analysis. >> well, that's right, nicolle. it's interesting to me that biden white house has been open about the amount of planning it's doing. they have these, they call it a tiger team that has been running scenarios of how they would respond to different actions putin would take. they've been happy to talk about that with the media and you know, here i see a little bit of a correction from how things happened with afghanistan where at least there was the perception that there had not been adequate planning. they had not anticipated all the things that could go wrong and how quickly and i think among other things, in this case, they are determined to be ready for pretty much anything. so good news. there are eyes on the ball. they're looking at anything that putin could possibly do. the problem is you know, putin really does have a way of surprising the united states and i think there's a sort of a reasonable paranoia about what he's capable of because in 2014,

in crimea and in donbas, u.s. officials and u.s. officials really underestimated how far he was willing to go. similarly when he intervened in syria, the u.s. really didn't see that coming. so the biden white house is trying to show us we're ready for anything, but also worried what is it we may be missing. >> kim, ambassador mcfall and others make the point on this show every time they're here, nobody knows what putin's going to do, not even necessarily putin before he does it. i take michael's point, the planning is plenty to showcase what i think folks around biden believe is one of his strong assets. these decades of experience on foreign policy matters. decades long relationships with some of the other leaders on the world stage, but the unpredictability of putin does always leave everyone reacting and responding to putin. >> that's true and there are

additional threats against the u.s. and other western allies that we haven't even talked about yet. the threat of cyber attacks that can happen. whether or not there is an invasion in ukraine so long as these tensions are high. there are the rising gas prices. there are other things that putin can continue to do against ukraine and elsewhere. this is one reason why there are discussions about additional sanctions are taking place in the senate are so important and the need to press all those things. but he is unpredictable and that is what makes this crisis high. we are right that he could still be trying to plan ways to get what he wants out of this and emerge as a victory. it's a really critical point. it is delicate but the unity at least that we see so far is important. it will be even better if congress could act in a bipartisan way to pass an

additional package so that there's another arrow in the president's quiver. >> michael, mark, thank you both so much for starting us off today. kim sticks around. when we come back, alarming new reporting about how the country's top election officials are no longer just overseeing voting in their states, but confronting a growing and frightening level of disinformation aimed at democracy itself. both at home and abroad. that new reporting is next. plus, the recall of three school board members in san francisco. further evidence that 2022 is shaping up politically, potentially, to be the year of the angry mom and dad. and a $73 million settlement. the lead attorney for nine sandy hook families involved in that lawsuit against remington will be our guest later in the hour. stay with us. n will be our guest later in the hour stay with usour past for

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as we inch closer and closer to the '22 midterms, the pressure is on for election officials in states across the country to make sure the vote the fairly counted and accurately counted. especially given the unprecedented assault on elections and election workers since the 2020 campaign by the trump right. however, the job responsibilities have drastically changed. politico spoke with ten top election officials and found that they see their jobs not just as location overseers, but as full-time myth busters on the

front line of defending democracy, fighting against the conspiracy theories and misinformation from those who promote the big lie and sew distrust. these high stakes come at a time when faith in the election systems reaches critical levels. a recent poll found that 64% of americans believed democracy was in crisis and at risk of failing. joining us now is katie hobbs. kim is still with us. we've been talking to you since it all started. since the days after the 2020 election. what has changed? what has gotten better? what has gotten worse? >> well, i think we've gotten certainly better at responding to the misinformation, but i still see it as one of the biggest threats to our democracy. we are working in coordination with secretaries of states across the country to ensure folks are getting their election related information from trusted sources, but as you're well

aware, a lot of the misinformation actually targets those trusted sources and tells peel not to trust them. so it is really a constant battle and it's increasingly difficult to combat. >>the idea that the purveyors of disinformation are running to have jobs like yours really feels like the scariest escalation from the big lie adherence. what would happen? what would have happened in arizona? >> there are several safeguards. elections are administered largely at the local level, not the state level. certainly not the national level. but also we have checks and balances on the process. counties certify the results. the state certified the compiled results and that involves not

just one elected official, but myself, the governor, the attorney general. so there's checks and balances and what we're at risk of losing, we have an actual insurrectionist running for secretary of state here in arizona who has said if he was secretary of state that trump would still be president. you know, with absolutely no basis for that assertion. but it clarifies how important all of these offices are and that democracies on the ballot in 2022 at every level, it's part of why i'm running for governor to help ensure we still have those checks and balances and i hope folks will join me at katiehobbs.org. >> we cover the ferver on the sort of disinformation on the right, that's why they act as crazy as they to and as loyal to trump. is there an actual intensity around the prodemocracy side?

>> i think foams i talk to certainly are aware of what's at stake in this upcoming election and further down the road and are certainly continuing to mobilize to fight the misinformation, to fight the attacks from the other side and to help protect our democracy in the future of free and fair elections in our country. >> you know, kim, we've been talking to secretary hobbs. to secretary benson and others who have been on the front line who have seen the tactics of the sort of election deniers in the trump base and i wonder what you make of this sort of wild, wild west of someone ending up in one of these jobs who is not faithful to the rule of law, who is not rooted in the truth or not loyal to the votes of the constituents of their state. it seems like all bets are off if that comes to pass. >> it really does. it seems evident that those who

are purveying the big lie and attempted to do it from outside of the system have realized that it would be a lot easier to do from inside the system and so you have officials like secretary hobbs that don't just have to fight the misinformation coming from outside but from other people who are becoming in these local and state offices election officials themselves and that leads to my question for secretary hobbs is does she have the resources that she needs? democrats are asking for additional funding to try to bolster to give state officials the ability to make sure they have enough polling places. that they are able to have the tools to keep people from being kicked off voting rules and such and actually expand access to voting in the way that coronavirus aid was done did that in 2020. the money has dried up.

but the likelihood of that getting passed republicans in washington is slim. what do you need to be able to do your job and protection the elections in november? >> well, certainly funding is important and we have consistently underfunded elections both from the federal level and the state level. you know, the cares act included a lot of money to help with covid-related expenses that would be added on to elections, but most of us saw it as a down payment then there was private funding. in arizona, it helped tremendously with publication, ensuring that voters had access to the information and tools they needed to exercise their freedom to vote and do that safely and now our legislature has tamped down on the ability for the use of private dollars to help fund elections. certainly we never rely on that as our first plan, but when elections are underfunded, we need resources to help voters

vote and now our hands are being tied there as well. >> what is the sort of, is there a help line or hot line? is there a nationalized effort to capture all of these requests and all of these needs and does it extend to security? i mean, do you hear from local election officials who feel targeted by hateful voice mails or people that don't trust them or like them? what is happening on the ground? >> yeah, i think we are continuing to see the increased threat environment as something that election officials are concerned about, but we're in constant communication with them about what their needs are. we coordination on election security issues across the state to ensure that those resources are there and that if we can provide assistance from our office, but there is certainly heightened scrutiny and threat on election workers and we're

concerned about the impact that might have on recruitment for those temporary workers we need through the election season. >> i ask you this i think almost a year ago, whether you feel safe or face threats and obvious you've taken the whole experience and it's fuelling your run for governor. so i'm curious if it just fortified you, if it's still part of the job or if you feel like the audits as bogus as they were, sort of added some credibility in some corners. just take me inside what you confront as a candidate for governor there. >> i mean kind of all of the above, right? certainly it does, i'm going to continue to do my job despite whatever threats or attacks come my way. my office continues to be under sort of a barrage of attacks through whatever avenues are available to people through social media, through e-mails, voice mails. and we're soldiering on because that's the job that i was

elected to do and oversee the office that does that and we're going to continue. it is one of the most daunting things about being in politics right now is just the level of attacks and harassments that we're subjected to. but i'm going to keep doing my job and i'm going to keep working to lead the state of arizona. >> arizona secretary of state and kim, thank you both so much for spending some time with us today. the recall last night of three school board members in san francisco is underscoring a crucial observation some have made about politics heading into this year's midterms. that 2022 may very well be the year of the angry k-12 mom and dad. that conversation after a quick break. and dad. that conversation after a quick that conversation after a quick break. real people with psoriasis look and feel better with cosentyx. don't use if you're allergic to cosentyx.

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last night, san francisco parents voted to remove three school board members who they say pursued progressive policy changes during the pandemic like the renaming of dozens of schools rather than focusing on students and returning to in-classroom learning. the reaction in one of the country's bluest cities is setting off alarm bells for democrats heading into midterms and it's part of a much broader backlash from parents who are making education and covid protocols in schools a top priority at the ballot box. in virginia, governor youngkin capitalized on the frustration

of some parents on the right signing a bill into law that bans school mask mandates outright. walters says one gop strategist calls it the year of the angry k-12 parent and writes this, quote, democrats hope if the election is a question of who you would rather have in charge of the pandemic, republicans still come up short. for much of 2021, democrats enjoyed much public support for their work on the pandemic because of how poorly americans thought trump did. today though, it's democrats who have the burden of getting the job done. let's bring in amy walter, national editor of the cook report and a.b. stoddard. i know this is out there, not just in sfsz, it's out there everywhere. they're mad, says a veteran gop strategist and cofounder of the center right group into america and they want to hold someone accountable. they feel as if their kids have

been forced to shoulder the pandemic even as adults have been able to enjoy dining out, attend sporting events and essentially go back to living their normal lives. the most recent ad takes aim -- that has driven parents to the brink. >> yeah, so a lot of the discussion about education and the campaign at least what we saw in virginia seemed to center around issues like crt and race issues and what was being taught in the schools or were certain books going to be banned. even this. the idea that parents didn't want to see masks on their kids anymore. i think what happened was over the course of these last two years, parents have watched, and this is hickey's contention, parents watched as their kids were forced to undergo many of the sort of mitigation efforts

that adults decided were no longer important to them. so wearing masks every minute of every day including when they're eating. being forced to stay at home for more extended period of time if they were exposed to covid than adults who were. mostly what they saw were their kids who were having academic, emotional, social challenges after what was a pretty horrific year and a half or more depending on where you went to school, of remote learning and these effects continued to take hold. i think what parents said in san francisco, your job when it comes to schools is to education our kids is to help our kids in any way possible and when the focus is on all these other things instead of doing that one thing, we're not happy about that.

>> you know, a.b, it seems like a really important time to be having this conversation. democrats had time to get themselves on offense if that's the choice they make. but it would be foolish to paint this with too broad of a brush. most people i know still work at home. most people i know have not gone back to the office and just speaking from my team, they're not working in the office. they're performing brilliantly from home and most everyone with kids has kids in a classroom. teachers have heroically worked through the omicron surge. if democrats lose this fight, it will in part be because they gave up. it seems like there is a counter to everything that i know is out there and that i am sure amy is right in seeing republicans eager to jump on and make hay of. >> but they've about this for a while. there were democratic biden

voting mom's groups in virginia who went to the mcauliffe campaign when he was running for a second term as governor, he was not the incumbent, but running a weak campaign. youngkin was capitalizing on this anger. he not only ignored this issue about learning loss and how much it was scaring parents who would watch their kid have to learn online for so long he doubled down and said something in defense of this debate over critical race theory that parents shouldn't be involved in what the curriculum is. it's school. so it emboldened republicans -- but of you know, what the books are in the library and everything else are. democrats are silent and defensive. the president has not leaned into this. in his presser a month ago, he said look, 95% of schools are open. but the party as a whole has not

leaned into this message that you're children's education, the damage that online learning did, is a serious matter. learning loss is terrible. this has to be, this threat has to be mitigated. we have to be ready for the next variant, but we have to stay in school and make sure their social, academic and emotional needs are being met and that is something that the party, until now, really has been silent on and it is a terrible electoral vulnerability for them. >> amy, go ahead. >> well, that's the bigger challenge right now. just politically. is that republicans are totally united on the issues about masking and being not being mandatory on this idea that it is much more dangerous for our kids to be kept out of school rather than to risk going to

school and potentially spreading covid. they're completely unified and democrats are divided. this is especially true when you look at voters of color, who they are pretty evenly divided on what is riskier. sending your kids into school and the risk of covid spreading or keeping them at home or having them pulled out of school or doing remote learning, which could risk their educational achievement. so it's a topic that is really easy for republicans to go on the offense about because they're completely united. now independent voters, as obviously we know they are a key group, they side much more with republicans. they're not 100% united in the way that republicans are, but there has to be a way if you're democrats, to be able to hold both of those things. yes, you are anxious and nervous about the safety of your children. we all are. yes, there are teachers who were nervous about this. and should be. but at the same time, we've accepted that restaurants can be

open. that bars can be open. that people can go to the super bowl and not wear a mask and that political candidates can go back on the road and hold fundraisers and it's that juxtaposition i think that is the challenge right now for democrats. if kids are still wearing masks in the classroom, what it says regardless of how you feel about it is we're not back to normal yet. we're not back to the place where we thought we would be once we got trump out of the white house and have a president who said he was 100% focused on nothing but defeating the pandemic. >> you know, a.b., sometimes people look back at a political force and say oh, why didn't we see that coming and sometimes the signs are everywhere. and the signs of sort of the covid moms are everywhere. all over the city in which i live. all over san francisco. they're all over deep blue areas

and one of the i think signs of a tsunami, not just a wave, is that when people who have never been involved in politics, they're suddenly e-mailing other parents, writing to local health boards. they're putting together groups to go meet with candidates and i wonder if you think that people on both sides are aware of the power of this emotion? the intensity of emotions every single parent has about their kids well-being. >> right, i don't think -- i mean, this is bringing out new voters, nicolle, as you said. when in 2016 when donald trump was a candidate and he was dismissed, people who saw the early signs of how much he was galvanizing a certain sector of the population and they were going to vote for the first time kept saying you don't, you're not seeing this coming. you're not listening. these parents who are either

already angry and intend to listen to the republican argument or democrats who supported joe biden thought that the pandemic would be contained, it is now his burden, as amy wrote, are really angry that the party has not been listening to their concerns, that republicans are sort of raging about rhetorically and staying on offense about. that their concerns are real. that their lives were turned upside down. their children suffered. that career suffered. women dropped out of the workforce to make sure they could be there to help their kids learn online and their lives were full of a lot of pain and struggle as a result. so it's really incumbent on democrats to hear the siren that they should have heard in november after the mcauliffe campaign and address it as soon as possible. >> we'll stay on it. we'd love to hear from you.

tweet at us. we'll listen. we'll do this regularly. thank you so much for having this conversation with us. when we come back, a landmark settlement for nine families who suffered unthinkable, unthinkable tragedies and losses at sandy hook elementary. with that $73 million settlement could mean for the fight against gun violence and gun makers. that story's next. gainst gun violence and gun makers. that story's next. >> woman: what's my safelite story? i see inspiration right through my glass. so when my windshield cracked, i chose safelite. they replaced the glass and recalibrated my safety system.

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we'll never have true justice. true justice would be our 15-year-old healthy and standing next to us right now. but benny will never be 15. he will be 6 forever because he is gone forever. today is about what is right and what is wrong. >> those are the parents of ben, call him benny, wheeler. one of the children who was murdered when 26 people were killed during the sandy hook school shooting ten years and one month ago. yesterday, remington arms, the manufacturer of the gun used in the shooting, settled with ben's parents and eight others killed that day in landmark $73 million settlement. joining us now is the lead attorney for the families involved in the lawsuit.

josh, i think the wheelers capture the emotions, right? this isn't justice. it doesn't bring their children back, but it is important. can you expand on that idea? >> sure. the pain that that story could be told to me 1,000 times and it will always bring me sorrow just like i'm sure it does you, nicolle. as a matter of fact, can't bring benjamin back and the money is complicated when it's considered in the light of this is what benjamin's life was worth because of course his life cannot be reduced to an amount and if it could, it wouldn't be this one. so it's a conflicting feeling for the families, but the important part is that the families set out all along to do whatever they could to prevent the next sandy hook. and the money is way more important to the gun industry

and to the underwriters of the industry, namely insurance and banking industry. so i think that the settlement, what the settlement speaks to is you can't get enough insurance to insure the kind of devastating and catastrophic damage that was carried out and the the sandy hook shooting. and that you have some protections under the law. the immunity affords you some unnecessary gifts, but it isn't bullet proof. so it's time to get over the perception that you don't have to act responsibly. >> describe the legal strategy because it's my understanding that the legal strategy you purr pseudowas about marketing guns to young men s that right? >> i mean, the legal strategy, first of all, was that if you took the complicating factor is it involves a weapon that is not

only is a firearm a weapon, but it's a notorious weapon. that's somewhat distracting, but the legal strategy we ended up really going with because it was the clear path up this mountain was would have appied to other situations as well. like if they marketed a baseball bat in this way or an automobile. all we really did was just if you look at the marketing, it doesn't take a lawyer or a rocket scientist to see that the marketing is abhorrent. it is immoral and unethical to most people. and it actually incentivized or raised the risk of a weapon designed to kill in a battle fooled of being used in our streets. that's irresponsible. it's irresponsible and happens to be against the law in connecticut. >> the "new york times" reporting on the settlement

suggests that potentially helping the case is remington's obligation to release thousands of pages of internal company documents that the sandy families contend could reveal to market firearms to young men. there's some echo to the tobacco industry finally being outed for their intentional plan to make people addicted to cigarettes. i wonder if you think this is an important moment in the effort to hold gun manufacturers responsible and accountable for the heinous things done with their products. tz. >> i read the articles, and i understand this is a very important moment in terms of at least i would say a few things. number one, it shatters a perception that is dangerous, which is that there's no holds barred and the gun industry is untouchable. so to the board rooms of the gun industry, it sends the message that for the first time, you

need to consider the public safety implications of your decisions. there will be accountability for your wrong doing. that allows them to consider their bottom line as part of the equation. to the insurance industries, it says this is not free money. the premiums you collect come at an enormous risk and it's time to crack down on these kinds of risk-inducing conduct and in terms of big tobacco, i understand why people say that. there are similarities to big tobacco. at the end of the day, the weapon kind of overshadowed a real kind of something that was really under underway here, which was greed. both the tobacco industry with when they did, it was greed.

it was greed. what what the gun industry, this particular gun conglomerate did was greed. they wanted to make a billion dollars. it's really important for the viewers to understand that the ar-15 has been available on the commercial market for about 40 years. and it had a very niche market. in 2005, there were 100,000 approximately per year were sold. by 2012 the year the shooting, there were over 2 million. it would be like if all of a sudden there was an explosion in baseball bats and as a result a lot of people were getting clobed over the head with baseball bats because of their marketing. so it all comes down to something very basic, which is greed. >> what would the families like

us to think about when there's this really important settlement, this moment where their greed is highlighted and they have to pay for it literally and figuratively. what do the families want people to know about this? >> first of all, the families have gotten my sympathy and empathy by well wishing people than anybody could have imagined if they lived a thousand lifetimes. it's extremely welcome, but what they would really like is for people to show some engagement in helping them with their goal of preventing future mass shootings like this. and in some ways, that's by educating people like through your program and having discussions about it. on what really is going on and what isn't. so i think that's what they want is they want to make that statement to have this case stand for the fact that the

financial industry that is underwriting the gun industry, lets the free market work on getting us to a place of sanity and so that our communities and our schools and our cities are safer than they are should be in a free country. >> jonathan, i hope this conversation we can continue to have. really important. thank you for spending some time with us today. >> thank you. quick break for us. we'll be right back. > quick bres we'll be right back. ♪ i see trees of green ♪ ♪ red ses too ♪ ♪ i see them bloom for me and you ♪ (music)

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these extraordinary times. we're so grateful. "the beat" starts right now. >> thank you so much. welcome to "the beat." it is a packed show. there's a leaked memo about a plan to actually thwart the culture war attacks we're seeing from fox news and the right. also something i'm really excited to share with you. jim gaffe began has some thoughtings are not only funny but insightful about where we go forward with covid. but we begin with this loss for trump. this is something he's been trying to keep secret. the white house visitor logs. president biden rejecting trump's privilege claims over the logs. biden, who is president, is doing what presidents do, which is exercise presidential executive privilege. that's something this donald trump cannot do, his own appointees to the supreme court reminded him of that with that stinging loss. the news tonight is that biden is o