goodbye check soon. >> indeed. >> that is all in on this wednesday night. the rachel maddow shows with alex whitener, good evening alex. >> good evening chris. good evening chris my kids would bang on pots and pans for a year after the start of the. pandemic >> it was very special, it felt like being part of something of resistance uninspired something. i look back on those day now and it's like, it feels a lot more -- >> were a long way from that moment. thank you as. always >> see. yeah >> and thank you at-home for joining us on this hour on december 1st of 2020 a few weeks after the presidential election are republican state representative in michigan had a very odd voice mail message. we played the recordings of his voice mail message on the show before and it was obtained by a small new service called the michigan information and research service. but now in light of new developments this voice mail has taken an even more

significance. >> hi, representative -- my name is angela mcallen i'm calling from trump campaign headquarters in washington, d.c.. i know you're very busy, but i didn't want to personally reach out to you on behalf of the president as you've got an opportunity to be a crucial part of his reelection. we just wanted to make sure that you knew how you could be helpful in ensuring that every american is represented and can rest assured that their vote will be fairly incorrectly counted in this country. the united states constitution provides the legal state legislators retained sole authority to designate the presidential electors. you do have the power to reclaim your authority and send this a slate of electors that will support president trump and vice president pence. >> you do have the power to reclaim your authority of a slate of electors that will support president trump. just a friendly reminder on

behalf of the president that you do have that power. obviously, this voice mail was one part of the trump campaign's fake elector scheme. where the assembled slates of fake trump electors that they intended to used to replace the actual electors in the states that biden won. last month, we've got reporting that it was rudy giuliani leading the effort for the trump campaign. but who else? well, angela mcallen the trump -- that you may herd making that phone call was subpoenaed at a january 6th investigation in november. and now, that language from her call about urgent state lawmakers, to reclaim their authority, well that language is now shown up in new subpoenas for the january 6th investigation. this is from a letter accompanying a subpoena to a guy named mike -- the select committee is in possession of communications reflecting your involvement in a coordinated strategy to contact republican members of state legislators of certain states that former president

trump had lost and urge them to reclaim their authority by sending an alternate state of electors that would support former president trump. it appears that you helped direct the trump campaign staffers participating in this effort. and then if you check out the footnotes in the letter the investigators say they're basing these allegations on quote, documents in the possession of the select committee. in other words, material they have obtained from other witnesses or other subpoenas. and who is this mike roman guy, that the january 6th investigation believes help direct trump campaign staffers and the fake electors gave? mike roman may have have the perfect resume for someone running to overturn the election based on false claims of voter fraud. because he was behind what you might call the o g republican stole an election narrative. do you remember this idea? back in 2010, this 80-second

video clip of a guy hanging around a philadelphia polling place with played wall-to-wall nonstop for fox news channel. it was just two guys outside philly polling place, but once fed through the fox news outreach and it was evidence of a massive campaign of voter intimidation by radical black activists that was being covered up by the obama justice department. elections were being stolen from obama and the democrats, it was shameless voter intimidation tactics. well that video, the video that launched 1000 fox news anchors, that video came from this guy mike roman. and that kind of achievement will get you far in today's republican party. by the 2020 election it really came full circle for mike roman. he was on the trump campaign watching teen spending a lot today accusing democrats of stealing the election. using as evidence photos,

videos of black voters in philadelphia. and after that, the january six invention committee, mike roman went on to help the trump -- he's one of several people subpoenaed this week in connection with that scheme as the investigation appears to be steadily building a work chart of how this plot was carried out. the investigation appears to be making progress on other fronts as well. today, president biden -- to block the investigation from getting lost logs from the trump white house. the national archives to handover those logs within 15 days. and trump and his allies are acting a little rattled. as the january 6th investigation subpoenas more and more people are tied to the fake electors plot. rudy giuliani reportedly ran. and the reporting that rudy giuliani may be considered actually talking to investigators. giuliani took to the right wing

pro trump news channel last night to round about how the investigation is illegal and can't subpoena anyone. he also spent some time peddling a brand-new conspiracy theory. that hillary clinton spied on the trump white house. you may have heard something about this if you ever dipped your toe into the right-wing media ecosystem. donald trump himself has cut out no fewer than five increasingly irate statements about. it i'm not gonna deconstruct this whole strange conspiracy for you right here, though i do recommend you had over two maddow blog.com for a great explanation or by our very own steve bennett -- i will say that to spy on the trump white house hillary clinton would've needed a time machine. because all the supposed evidence being waged around by trump and giuliani and company, the stuff that happened before trump was president. those clintons and those times jeans. but i digress. no matter how new shiny objects

throughout to try to show -- other imagine scandal. they cannot change the fact that the january six investigation is moving steadily ahead. and they can't change the fact that the january six investigation has already amassed so much damning evidence. today, the washington post published a feature on just one strand of that evidence. the thousands of text messages that the january six and that's the geisha came keep players around trump. in the days and weeks leading up to it. quote, thousands of frantic, ephemeral text messages that might have otherwise been lost to history are now key to piecing together the most vivid and comprehensive picture to date of the events surrounding the chaos at the capitol. text that go back all the way to the day of the election. like this one to chief of staff from rick perry, rick perry

previewing what would be one of the attempted strategies to overturn the election quote, here is an aggressive strategy why can't the states of georgia, north carolina, pennsylvania, and other republican-controlled state houses declare this has been as and send their own electors to vote. and have a go to the supreme court. okay now, rick perry. this is one of trump's chief of staff from an unidentified member of a far-right -- just a few days before january 6th, quote if potus allows this book to occur, or driving a stake in the heart of the federal republic. techs like those are just the beginning. the post reports that the committee so far has publicly revealed only a sliver of the thousands of text messages it has received so far. joining us now is the lead author on that piece washington post congressional correspondent, jacqueline

alemany, and as of today she is also now an msnbc contributor. jacqui thank you so much, thank you for coming to the family. let's talk about these text messages. >> so, you know in your reporting to the committee has revealed a sliver of the thousands of text messages. how many of those text messages do you believe were provided by former chief of staff mark meadows? >> yeah, alex, that's a good question. it was provided the majority of the text messages that the committee has received so far. we believe that number is upwards of 7000, but meadows himself provided 4000 personal text messages. those of which were actually -- the former president's legal team since they were retrieved from a personal device. meadows's text messages were actually viewed by the select committee investigating the january 6th insurrection as sort of a connective tissue that is really pulling all of the desperate threats about

planning, leading to january 6th altogether. these text messages especially if you are -- we pulled every text that the committee has so far released. it's really helping to paint a picture of what happened, especially since there's been such a chasm between public station bag, lawmakers in fox news, versus the concern in panic and put directly into mark meadows inbox. >> yeah, the releases of -- these it's like a serialized drama. how is the committee deciding which texts are released publicly and when to release them? do we have a sense that they're holding on to texts, that are maybe even more explosive in terms of public reception? >> absolutely, the committee is trying to ensure that they have the most -- public hearings possible and that means pulling back some of these text messages.

that being said the trail of bread crumbs they've left so far in releasing some of meadows's text messages with people like jim jordan, sean hannity, and as we reported this morning james o'keefe. have been fairly juicy. and we needed to release those in order to make persuasive markets to hold mark meadows in contempt. a lot of those messages were released in the contempt -- they put out a few months ago we're still waiting on whether or not the doj zogg gonna take up that contempt referral. but there is a fine line that were straddling to apply public pressure to get them to cooperate voluntarily with the committee. versus holding back some of these messages and trying to make a splash she has the public print it -- >> and yet some of the things

we have aren't splashing an explicit and they're drawing the american public. and the text messages sent from mark meadows from rick perry a day after the election just essentially a pitch strategery, aggressive strategy in typical perry fashion. but the strategy lays out in texas that state legislators and republicans -- that's basically the plan as it was laid out and executed, right? and yesterday we find out that the committees issued subpoenas to members of the trump campaign who it says had a role in directing that steam. i wonder whether you think the committee is ahead of the public, the public reporting we have, on that aspect of the campaign, do we effectively know what's transpired than we've digested in the press as yet? >> i think they do. i think -- done a good job getting out ahead of these stories. before the committee was previously aware of them. but when it comes to the

information that we've gathered so far, the volume of these text messages, documents, and records make it such that there is inevitably gonna be some news and reveals. it's also important to note about these text messages other than the content and some of these crazier in unexpected reactions to things, these frantic ephemeral concerns that were raised which of otherize would be lost to history. they were memorializing text message. is the forensic analysis that i believe that the committee investigators could do of a social networking. obviously, these text messages showed the direction between the white house since box news and also shows some of those relationships that are more personal that we've realized. for example, the fact that mark meadows had been texting relationship with james o'keefe. that is also helping piece together a lot of these various schemes that were concurrently

going on. yeah, it's the first beginning a flush worked out trump universe in its power grid, if you will. i have to ask about today, the white house is effectively clearing the committee to get access to the trump, -- what could be in those that might not be in the texan other communications that we have been privy to, thus far? >> yeah. that is a very good question. you know, i'm not that certain that we are going to get that much from these logs, just yet. as recording has worn out last few weeks, we know that this is a president that ignored and fail to follow those procedures. it is unclear if these white house visitor logs were meticulously and accurately kept. or, if the president was, sort of, again, sneaking past these processes that were implemented for a reason, to document and keep the most comprehensive picture of history in order for

the american public to look back and be able to, potentially, know who was visiting with the president at this crucial juncture in this -- it was unclear if trump was doing that. on the other side, any names that are on their if people going in and out of the white house that we don't already know of, would be extremely helpful. we know in those final piece of the president was trying to overturn the results of the election, there were fringe figures like michael flynn, mike lindell, sydney powell, going in and out of the oval ... and the white house residence. i think that, at this point, any documents that the committee could get their hands on, is a win. >> yeah. if the president was flushing records down the white house toilets, who knows whatever to those their lives. i'm sure that you're gonna be on some important stories in the near future. jacqui -- now, thanks for joining us tonight. >> thanks. alex. >> we have some breaking news

from the white house where one official now says that russia is actually sending troops to ukraine's border, not withdrawing them. ben rhodes joins us next. so you can breathe better. claritin-d. breathe better.

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the national sports complex in kyiv. as government employees marched 220 yard ukrainian played around the same track. [inaudible] saying that the country's national anthem. ukraine's across the country proudly displayed their flake from inside parliament to the streets of odessa, to western ukraine. roughly 70 kilometers from the border of poland, where military cadets raised a large flake, where they say when -- they did all of this because president zelensky designated today, ukrainian unity day. he chose this day, february 16th because it was, allegedly, the day that russia had planned

on invading ukraine. well, it is already the early morning hours of february 17th and ukraine. so far, fingers crossed, no invasion. it appears that for many, the feeling on the ground in ukraine's, let's just say, not necessarily want to panic. the washington post spoke to a 24-year-old who told the paper, everyone is talking about warren what will happen and blah, blah, blah. but for people who are working, it is all the same. just an ordinary day. a retail manager told the post, quote, i have to go to work, that is all. meanwhile, thousands of miles above the streets of kyiv, ukraine airspace remains open, nonetheless, no carriers are trying to fly over the country right now. as it has been four days, the situation in ukraine remains murky. very murky. late this evening, we got yet another reminder of that. even though many of the

citizens of ukraine are still just going about their business, the international community continues to sound the alarm. both secretary of state, anthony blinken and nato say that despite putin's assurances, there are no signs that russian troops are withdrawing. on the contrary, -- tonight, we have more details on that point from a senior biden ministration official. that official knows that russia has added as many 7000 troops to the ukrainian border, with some arriving as recently as today. that official, tonight, rejecting russia's assistance that there has not been a reduction forces. they received a lot of attention for that claim, both here and around the world. but we now know it was false. that official also noted a marked increase in false claims from the kremlin, including fake report of unmarked graves in eastern ukraine. citizens, allegedly, killed by ukrainian forces. it was thought that russia might use false claims like

these as a pretext for invasion. you should note that the official reporters -- i did not for the alleged a troop buildup. -- what is a incredibly -- overall desperate to make sense of. joining us now on this quest to make sense of what is happening is ben rhodes, former secretary adviser to obama. he was in that post when ukraine invaded russia in 2014. ben, it's always good to see you in catatonic this, my friend. >> thanks, alex. so, let's first talk about this latest assertion from the white house that contrary to what the russians are saying, we're actually seeing a buildup of troops on the border. do you we trust the u.s. government more than the russian government? this is just international gaslighting? >> here's what i think is happening, alex. russia tries to do what they have [inaudible] it's created

pretext and they're acting in defense. in 2014, when they annexed the crimea, they claim that ukrainian nazis were threatening russians there. when russia shot down the ukrainian airliner in 2014, they claim down that ukrainian shut down the plane. in your report, they are suggesting that, potentially, genocide is happening against ethnic russian population in eastern ukraine. i think the scenario that the biden team is worried about is that by saying that they are open diplomacy, that they are de-escalating, but they're pulling about troops, they are trying to create an international impression that, you know, they aren't really there to threaten ukraine. they're pulling back. and then, they will cite some pretext for an invasion. just as the biden administration has tried to deny president putin the capacity to do that, by publicizing all of these moves for the last several of weeks

and months, i think, right now, it is a tense moment, they're pointing, outlook, the russians are point out something can't believe. where look at the hard evidence. we look at the troops on the ground. we are not seeing any signs of a pullback. what we're seeing is a continued [inaudible] foreign invasion. it will be an offensive operation not a defensive operation. >> yeah. the biden white house is aggressively countering this russian strategy. i wonder, to another audience, to an international audience, does it become just a game of he said he said? it's anyone -- with information and it is being radically transparent about, does russia ... is their game working? do you think is possible that they will be able to convince anybody that they're off operating offensively, if they do launching military engagement? >> here's a thing i'd say, alex. i want sat in the white house

and i was responsible for this battle over international pinion. the russians probably assume that most americans trust the u.s. government over the russian government, in the sense. their audiences in europe. their audience is around the world. the united states, if russia invades, is going to have to convince as many countries as possible to go along with u.s.-led sanctions. to go along with u.s.-led pressure on russian response. what russia needs to do, from an information standpoint, is not necessarily convince everybody that they are correct. but is so enough doubt, it is a he said he said kind of thing. it is a situation where, russia claims that their forces were being attacked, people are being massacred in eastern ukraine. u.s. said there is a big [inaudible] who knows where the actual answer is? it's so chaos and doubt about this, now that they can create division for the coalition would have to respond first support for ukraine, sanctions against russia. that is all they need to do.

in some ways, alex. not that dissimilar from don trump needs to do here. he needs to convince people that everything he says is true, he just has to sow enough doubt, right? in people's minds that, it's all partisan, it's all he said she said thing. so, you can't really trust anybody. therefore, it is not worth your effort. that is, essentially, the russian information. they don't have to convince people they are, right just sow the seed that the night states isn't right. >> the confidence that they are lying. if you're listening to what the russians are saying in response to questions about western warnings of an invasion. today, russia's ambassador to the eu is asked by a german reporter whether russia was going to attack on february 16th, today, wednesday, he responds, wars in europe rarely start on wednesday. i mean, that is just the best international gaslighting i've ever heard. it is indicative of a country that ... they sound remarkably

confident in their position. it makes me wonder, feels like putin is a little bit of a chess master here. he sounds like he is ready to play a long game. one gets a sense that, to some degree, he enjoys the fact that russia is in the limelight. that we're talking about nato. that we wouldn't have even considered a few weeks ago. who's game are we playing here, right now? >> we are all responding to vladimir putin. i'm sure he likes nothing more than the rest of the world is wondering with vladimir putin is doing. i sat in the room with putin and [inaudible] these are people who can live very easily with a lie on their face. it's not something that is discomforting to them to tell lie after lie after lie. frankly, what we've seen is since putin is taking this aggressive stance, the lies have come more fast and furious. once you decide that you don't

have to abide by any rules, whether those rules apply to telling the truth -- or whether those things are annexing a part of neighboring country, like the crimea. once you decide you don't care about the rules, it gives you an advantage. i think you we have to recognize that putin has been building for this for a long time. these troop deployments clearly took a long time to plan. you don't have 150,000 troops from across a vast country like russia to surround ukraine, without planning for that for at least a year. we've seen russia stashed away reserves, cash reserves, of over 600 billion dollars, precisely because they probably anticipated the kind of devastating sanctions that biden has been threatening a response. it's quite likely that putin has been ramping up for this for a long time. the question is, whether the he wants to use that ramp up to, as you said, put a spotlight on the notion that he will not

accept further nato enlargement. ukraine is never gonna be a nato. people are going to have to respond to that, diplomatically. or, whether this has built up to the inevitable invasion of ukraine, he wants to topple ukraine government and control if years of a neighbor that he sees as a buffer state between russia and nato. that is what we have to wait to find out. the action on the ground, unfortunately, continues to suggest that it is the latter scenario. >> magic eight ball is highly unclear on this. ben rhodes, i'm glad to have you with us, my friend. former deputy national adviser to obama. always good to see. you thanks, ben. >> thanks, alex. >> still to come, it is no secret that air travel has gotten, shall we say, messi. during the pandemic. now, several republican senators want to stop the government from doing anything about all that mess. that is next. ess. that is next

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>> this morning another disturbing video showing another scare in the air. passengers on board a delta flight from la to atlanta pinning a man down. after the airline says an off-duty delta flight attendant tried to take control of the plains pa system. the captain took to the intercom asking passengers to help. >> strong males to the front [inaudible] passenger. >> air traffic control diverted the flight to oklahoma city friday night wore police took a passenger into custody. it's just the latest incident involving with the faa says is a surgeon bad behavior in the skies. earlier this month, another delta passenger was arrested after reportedly attempting to breach the cockpit and on this southwest flight from sacramento to san diego in late may. a passenger punched a flight attendant causing her to lose two teeth.

>> since the start of the pandemic it's been, incidents involving dangerous passengers on planes have absolutely skyrocketed. this past sunday to separate american airlines flights were forced to divert their flight from their flight path because passengers were causing a disturbance. on one of those planes passenger tried to open the plane door into flight. this uptick of in-flight disturbances has put flight attendants in a terrible spot. essentially turning them into club bouncers. who have to mitigate dangerous oftentimes violent and drunken situations at 30,000 feet. airline often keeps list of these unruly passengers and banned them from flying with the for the airline again. but nothing stopping them from hopping on a flight with a different airline and doing all that nonsense all over again. earlier this month, the ceo of delta airlines wrote to the u.s. attorney general posing a more permanent solution. one that would prevent unruly passengers from flying airline tickets. he prevent the asked for the

justice of degree and national no fly list. a list that would be shared among all the airlines and would ban people convicted of dangerous, violent behavior from all flights. it would work the same way as the no fly list for terrorists. who have found to be unruly or violent on an airline you'll be banned from flying again. not just from that one specific airline but the full stop. it seem like kind of a nonpartisan, no-brainer, totally reasonable solution for this problem. until a group of republican senators came out against the plan this week. the fact that this spike in airline services coincides with the pandemic is of course not coincidental. close to 6000 unruly passenger reports investigated by the faa last year 72% of them or because of passengers who refused to wear masks. and that's why these eight republican summit on against the no fly list.

they're worried that creating such a list might unfairly like in an anti mask or many of them republicans to a terrorist. the senators ranked this to the attorney general creating a federal no fly list for unruly passengers who are skeptical of this mandate would seemingly -- actually take the lives of americans and perpetrate attacks on the homeland. joining us now is sara nelson president of the flight attendants, miss nelson thank you for being. or >> thank, you alex. >> let's start with the suggestion of a of an actual no fly list. for what i would call dangerous passengers. does the union support the list, and were you at all involved in the i-ten ration? >> i actually testified three times in the -- on this very assertion courage in doj, faa to work together put this list together so that the government can actually control that, communicate that

in realtime. we can have a transparent process with due process, because a lot of people are concerned about that due process with good reason. but, we need to use this as a consequence for people who are acting out on planes. we already have fines, you've heard about the high fines from the faa, you've heard that the doj started prosecuting, although we have made all the way through those prosecutions with a conviction, and people landing in jail. but we have this other option -- along with all of us and other airlines are supportive of this. too we need to work together to resolve these issues to use the threat of losing your ability to fly if you are causing this much problems on a plane. because you are putting everyone at risk when you're doing that. and it's very much like the other no fly list that we have for -- >> yeah, i mean when we call them unruly passengers. these aren't people mad that there is no cranberry juice cocktail, these are people

trying to open flight doors in the middle of a flight. which is a hazard, a life-threatening hazard. >> yes, and access the flight deck. we had that just this last week. we had a flight attendant who used a coffee pot, the crew remember self-defense training that we worked so hard to get into place, that pfa manages. and made it available to flight attendants because of these issues. the spike in these. issues every single day, when flight attendants go to put on their uniform they think, is this gonna be a sign of authority and leadership in the cabin or is this gonna be a sign for someone to launch a vicious attack, a violent attack against us. that's very. different i'm a 25 year flight attendant, this used to be a concurrence that would happen on a bad day. one, two, maybe three times in a career. and every single day flight attendants are facing this.

and what's causing is people don't want to pick up as much time, they're having a difficult time staffing those flights because of that. there is a consequence all the way around. -- is that 61% of these and up are also committed by rachel, gender, or homophobic slurs. people are taking the brunt of this. we've got a stop it, this we can expect this to be the new. norm >> when you lay all of it out the new brainer, something needs to be done. but obviously we're running into resistance here. specifically partisan resistance. why in your mind are republican senators coming out against a nationalist? >> well, if they're making it all about masks but i want to be really clear that while a good number of the reports for the past year have been, have including mask issues, the vast majority of the violent events have happened had anything to do with masks. so, they want to set a certain narrative here. that are conflicts on planes in the first place people are at a

stress level ten all over this country because they have had -- not knowing what to believe. they've been told to different things throughout this pandemic. to totally opposite things. and now, they've been told that they're at odds with each other. and what we find when we get up in the air is that americans actually creep solidarity. they actually want to come together, and that's what we do is flight attendants. we bring people together. we're not there to tear them. apart but people are coming to the door of our aircraft, having told them to different things and those eight senators are directly responsible for that confusion, that anxiety, and the stress levels of everyone around this country because there have been two sets of information here that have been given to people. and people don't know what to believe. and specifically about masks. they have made a political issue, this public health device, that can keep all of us safe. they've made a political issue. and they have put people in harm's way.

more people have died, and the work space that i work in has become combative and has become a very difficult place to be. and as long as they continue to do that and make this the new norm, they're also putting our neck anomalous acuity at risk as well. because people at a certain point are not -- if this is gonna think they're signing up with. >> as someone who flies very often in my heart goes out to you and all the attendants that had to face these dangers network. let us hope that these eight republican senators -- where the rest of our party's gonna be on this very sensible seeming national no fly list. sarah nelson, president -- thank you so much for being here and up there. >> thank you. >> we know republicans spend every waking moment from now until november's midterm hammering democrats on their preferred topics like critical race theory, and open borders. but how much energy should be democrats extend fighting back. and what issues should

democrats be getting republicans on. simone sanders germans that's live. coming up next. germans that' live live coming hey google. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

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>> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ . . . you's. the new york times reported mitch mcconnell is quietly working behind the scenes to limit trump's influence on the upcoming election. the times reports that [inaudible] to other republicans that he [inaudible] got balls when republican primaries. mcconnell's house counterpart, mccarthy, has similar plans. the hill newspaper says that -- policy ambitions. we'll believe that when we see. it shift the debate away from the former president and

separating of the big lie and the january 6th attack on the capitol. that may sound like an effective plan for republican politicians heading into the cycle, where history suggests it bodes well. the former president and his allies have other plans. for the past few months, trump has been throwing his weight around in republican primaries. -- a majority of whom have openly questioned the results of the 2020 election. so, we've seen republican politicians across the country touting their anti-democracy -- interviews and even in political ads. >> i was one of the first to support on trump's president. he made america great. the democrats rig the election. stop the democrats from stealing another election. >> lie, waste your money, regulations. i'm [inaudible] president trump

says the election was stolen. he is right. >> as republicans argue amongst insults over the last election, democrats are gearing up for a fight this november. nbc news reports today that ron klain is headed to capitol hill tomorrow to talk strategy with house democrats. meanwhile, political rights that -- is developing a new strategy to push back against a host of culture war criticisms being pushed by republicans. the plan is to offer strong rebuttal to cut political hits on hot button issues like immigration and critical race theory. can democrats keep the majority while playing defense? should democrats focus on their own political messaging on kitchen table issues or train their fire on trump and the threat posed by the former president and his allies? can democrats to both of those things? do they have to choose? joining us now is simone sanders, former chief spokesperson for vice president

harris and former senior adviser of biden's presidential campaigns. thank you for joining me. >> it's great to see you. fab. >> thank you. simone, let's just start first with the democrats. on one hand, there is this push to engage with republicans and the culture war swamp around critical race theory and defunding the police. up until now, the party has largely ignored those attacks. is it a good idea to engage? does it just increase the amount of airtime of argue -- doesn't make it into a larger issue than it should be? >> it's a good question, alex. there is not one size fits all answer. the answer is, it is a good idea to engage. it is not a good idea to engage. basically, you have to pick your battles. democrats who are running on elections, whether we're talking about house elections, senate elections, or many of these governors races, governors who are up for reelection, we're running to

capture new governors seats like stacey abrams in georgia, they have to engage on their own territory. we have to understand the issues in their districts, in their state. president biden, for example, in his race for president, he largely shrugged off the defund the police narrative peak oz anybody who knows joe biden knows that that is not something that he himself believes and. frankly, it was a narrative that was taking hold in some places until the campaign had a counter at that says this is what joe biden is for. it matters where you are talking about engaging. >> i guess i just wonder. i was in georgia a lot before the runoff in january, january 5th. i was with now senators warnock, the discipline those campaigns have. they refused to engage and trump and all the election fraud, even the day that the phone call came out between

trump and raffensperger, the secretary of state, or overseeing the elections. that discipline paid off. they only wanted to talk about so-called, kitchen table issues. i wonder, don't you have to kind of have to choose it some point? if voters really want to hear about issues that matter to them, right? not democracy issue should matter to them, they want to hear about health care, they want to hear about the economy. they want to hear about jobs. they want to hear about student debt. it takes up a lot of airtime, in which you can't really talk about january 6th election stealing and the big lie. >> yes. it does. democrats have to run their races for their districts. pliant blank period. we are on the national level like to talk about, i think it is very important, talking about january six. remind people what happened that day. the people of the capitol that day, those insurrectionists, they went home. okay?

we can't let that slide. i think the committee is doing an amazing job, continuing to dig down to the core of what happened, peel those layers. back but if you're trying to win amid election in georgia, when reelection in michigan, and the governor's mansion, you have to talk to your voters. you have to be responsive, engaging with folks where they are. democrats don't need to preach to folks. they just have to go in there talk about the amazing things that they have done, why they should be reelected, to continue to do them. beth to talk about what they haven't been able to get done and their plan to address those issues. they should not take the bait. the last maternal action, i know that the democratic congressional committee had a lot to say about the last midterm election, where democrats did win a lot of seats, but it was extremely close. well, in that midterm election, democrats want to their districts. you are traveling around the country, alex. you know. when you don't get distracted. when you say focus on the

issues that the voters care about, that is how you do well. that is how democrats are going to hold out into this midterm election. for those people who do get distracted, for those folks who think don trump is some magic wand, news flash. there is no such thing as magic wants. voters and districts don't want to hear about donald trump. he is not the president. he is not on the ballot. they want to hear what democrats are for, but they are going to do to make their lives better. >> in the meantime, mitch mcconnell is going to focus on not electing goof balls. we will see how that experiment pounds out. simone sanders, former spokesperson for vice president harris, former senior adviser on president biden's campaign. great to see. >> thank you. >> we have one more story to get to tonight. don't go anywhere. tonight don't go anywhere. including nasal congestion, so you can breathe better. claritin-d. breathe better. we just moved. so there's millions of - dahlias in bloom.

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progress and the tools we know, have we are moving towards a time when covid is not a crisis. it is something that we can protect against and treat. >> a positive message out of the white house today, as covid continues its dramatic down tick across most of the country. also today, the white house made two key hires to its team of top science advisers. last week, the highest rank science official in the biden administration, eric lander, resigned after accusations that he had to meet a disrespected his colleagues. he held two roles as the presidents top science advisor and the head of the office of science and technology policy. tonight, president biden chose

a larger nelson, who was eric nelson's deputy, to lead the policy in his place. to fill the role of top -- francis collins, who until late last year, led the national institutes of health. the white house says that nelson and collins will perform these new rules on a temporary basis until permanent candidates can be nominated and confirmed. that doesn't press tonight. we will see you again tomorrow. now, it is time for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. w, it is there are no goofball candidates who get elected as republicans to the senate. but, does he have a plan for getting rid of the good balls who are already in the senate but have, you know, six year terms? >> it is an ironic proposition, right? someone should flag it for mcconnell. just in case he doesn't know. there are goof bulls already