>> i really hope so. i really hope so. i really hope so i'm craig melvin. >> and i'm natalie morales. >> and this is ""dateline"." how far would you go? how long would you wait to get justice for a friend? >> he killed her. he needed to pay for it. >> they had been college roommates. super close, until that terrible night. >> that can certainly suck rage at the victim? >> yes, it could. >> who could have done it? her boyfriend? >> something just didn't seem right? her new friend? >> things weren't adding up. >> her ex? >> he was very obsessed with

angie smr the trail went cold for more than two decades, she was sure she knew who the killer was. even got a private detective license that helped prove it. >> i said, i'm a private investigator and i need you to tell me where is the evidence, all of that, it wasn't well received at all. >> finally, the great pain. >> we got the match. >> leading to one of the greatest twists of all time. >> it could not have shocked me more. >> hello, welcome to "dateline." when angie samota walked into a room, people noticed. pretty, vivatous. the college student had her choice of dates. late one night, she was murdered. a crucial clue pointed to one man.

but in this case, nothing was as it seemed. it would take decades and the tenacious friend to uncover the truth. here's josh mankiewicz with, "in the middle of the night." it was a saturday morning in october, 1984, when sheila wysocki's phone rang. >> it was a girl friend and she said, there has been an accident. >> an accident involving sheila's good friend, freshman roommate and fellow student at southern methodist university, angela samota. >> i initially thought angie had been in a car accident. of course, i went through, is she in the hospital? where is she? and i wasn't getting any information from her. and my girlfriend was crying. >> that's because it wasn't an accident. that same morning, anything just's sorority sister ev len sandy was given the news by two friends. >> they told me that angie had been murdered.

she had been found naked with a lot of stab wounds. it was absolutely shock. >> angie samota had not only been killed but butchered, repeatedly stabbed in her own bedroom with a bloody end to a life that had so much promise. >> she was the most amazing person. she was full of life. she could light up a room. she was very hard worker and she knew where she was going. she was very, very driven. >> angie had grown up in amarillo, texas and attended the exclusive all girl hockaday school in dallas. she just bought a condo near the smu campus. >> angie was this amazing shining star to so many people that she knew. she was absolutely brilliant before her time. she was a double major in

engineering and computer science at smu, a time when girls were not doing that. she had this amazing joy devie, this absolute love of life, was really life of the party. >> reporter: beautiful, intelligent, single. and 20-years-old. it's a combination that attracts men of all kind. >> she used to get notes on her car. she'd get flowers. she'd come in and show me who wrote her that day. she had a lot of attention, absolutely a lot of attention. >> am i right in thinking that she didn't always have the best taste in guys? >> like any other 18-to-20-year-old, she didn't choose wisely at that point in her life. >> some of those choices and some of those men would figure prom nentdly in the interlocking stories of angie samota's life and in her death. there was lance, who angie had dated back home in am rim lo and through her freshman year in dlaechls according to her

friends, angie said she was afraid of lance because he had a temper and had once pulled a knife on her. there was dan, angie's boyfriend at the time of her death. older, already out of school, he was a construction supervisor in dallas. >> it sound like he was kind of the opposite of lance especially would say he is the opposite of lance. >> and there was russell, a new friend of angie's who had gone out that evening be her and her friend anita, another female engineering student at smu. you saw her that last night? >> yes. >> how was she? smr she was angie. i mean, she was fine. >> that night anita accompanied angie and russell on an expedition to a series of bars and clubs. angie's boyfriend ben was not present. >> ben was aware of the fact that angie, russell and i were all going out together. >> at least to angie's friend ev len, dan didn't seem like the

type to get jealous or violent. >> you could never imagine dan hurting angie? >> i could never imagine dan hurting angie. >> reporter: the evening, angie dropped her off walking distance from her own and then took anita home. anita had thought about spending the night another angie's and decided against it. >> what was the last thing you said that night? >> see you tomorrow at the football game. she doesn't meet me there. very strange, angie is a woman of her word. i remember saying, i wonder what angie is. i came home, my roommate said, there is something i need to tell you, but you might want to sit down. she says, angie was murdered last night and the police are wanting you to call them back. >> what did you think in. >> i didn't want to believe it at first. beyond that, i started with the whole, would have, could have, should have, would i have prevented it, should i have

spent the night? would things have been different? >> but she was not the last person to see angie alive. it turns out angie's boyfriend dan was that person. she had stopped by his place on her way home after dropping off anita. later that night, it was ben who called police to angie's condo. and what got their attention was not just what ben said but how he sounded when he said it. >> her car is here and she can't, won't answer the door. >> does he sound frantic? panicked? investigators didn't think so. coming up, police start focusing on ben but soon the list of suspects gets longer. >> he's a pretty scary guy. he's creepy. >> when "dateline" continues. "dateline" continues

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. in the fall of 1984, smu college student angie samota had been found murdered. arriving officers walked in on a blood bath. >> they found one shoe in the den. another shoe somewhere else, all her clothes stacked up all in one neat pile and angie laying on the bed covered in blood. her chest area pretty caved in

with stab wounds. >> so this was a vicious assault? >> there were 18 stab wounds, ten of which punctured the heart, breaking the best bone and going through the body. >> they were assistant district attorney's in dallas at the time. they say, whoever stabbed an zwri was intent on killing her. that many wounds can certainly suggest rage, anger at the victim? >> absolutely. >> from what you can tell, did an zwri have enemies? >> it seems broken heart, enemies, she was the type person that didn't have enemies. everyone seemed to like her a lot. the only people that seemed to be mad at her were ex-boyfriend or people that. ed to be her boyfriend. >> reporter: police immediately no cussed on the man in angie's life, starting with ben her then boyfriend. ben told police a story that sounded a bit suspicious. he he says after stopping by

anitas, she stopped by, waking him up and drove home. within minutes of reaching her condo. he says she called him around 1:45 a.m. he says angie told him she let a man she didn't know into her home in the middle of the night. a man who asked to use her phone and bathroom. ben says angie then hung up, promising to call him back a few minutes later. she never did, ben said and she didn't answer his calls. concerned, ben told police he drove to her condo angie wasn't answering her door either. now ben was locked outside, calling police on the early generation mobile phone in his truck and sounding to them oddly calm. >> by frirlfriend called me and said there was a man in her apartment using her phone, i tried calling and she won't answer the door, karns can't answer the door.

>> he broke in? >> no, no. >> he didn't break in, she let him in. >> i believe so. >> police weren't sure what to make of ben and his verpgs version of events. >> so there was no way to tell whether the story that ben had told police on the 911 tape actually happened in. >> the only thing we have is ben's word. >> no cell phone records back then or local phone calls. so that phone that ben talked about, that may never have happened? >> that is correct. i. >> i would expect someone to be, i can't find her, i don't know where she, is she's not answering. it was a feelingless phone call, somebody who didn't seem too concerned. >> ben waited in the living room while police went in. they came out and told him angie was dead. >> the first respondingosis what he remembered most was that even after he had discovered the body and said so ben didn't even ask

what condition, how she was or anything like that. >> and sometimes people who don't ask that question don't skit because they already know the answer? >> exactly. >> they didn't ask how she was killed, whether it was gunshot, stab wounds. >> that's unusual. >> and there was something else. ben's story may have been suspicious but ben, himself, was squeaky clean. >> this was approximately 2:00 in the morning. >> he had been awakened from sleep and he arrived at the location in a clean, pressed shirt and he smelled of soap as if he had cleaned up. >> that tended to raise some suspicions with the first responding officers that something just didn't seem right. >> while police were trying to process the story ben was telling, they widened their investigation to include angie's ex-boyfriend lance.

the boy next door in amarillo. the boy angie had trouble with. it was something angie's friend sheila knew all about. >> he was very obsessed with angie. he was so obsessed with her, he would come down all time to school to see her. >> reporter: they had dated through an just's freshman year. >> one night i got a call from angie. she was crying. she said that lance had gone crazy and i needed to get over there. she was screaming. lance had taken a knife and shredded all of her clothes. >> did he threaten her? >> yes. yes, he did. >> physically, verbally? >> verbally and you have a weapon, whether it's a knife, scissors, he threatened her. he was pretty scary guy. he's keepy. >> suddenly lance was at the top of the investigator's list. >> prime suspect. absolutely. >> especially when we have an 18 wound stabbing. >> there was no forced entry in.

>> that's right. >> suggesting whoever had gotten in her apartment had either figured out some way of getting in undetected or angie knew them and let them in? >> gentleman. >> all of that pointed to the exboy friend laps or the current boyfriend dan or maybe to a new man in her life, a man she had been out with the last night of her life, russell. soon, police would ask sheila, then a college student, to help narrow down that list of suspects. and solve the crime. >> he killed her. he needed to pay for it. >> coming up, shela's nerve-we'll be right backing night with suspect number one. >> here i am sitting across from this man thinking, i'm eating dinner with a murder. >> and then versions get a break. >> they had their guy now. >> when "dateline" continues. n s

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who would want angie samota dead? an autopsy determined she had also been sexually assaulted just before she was stabbed to death. her friend shela. >> i find out she had been raped and i can't think of anything else. it was overwhelming, emotionally. >> it was hard for angie's friends to hear but the rape did

help law enforcement. because they now had the perpetrator's dna profile, but back in the mid-'80s, that wasn't the help it would be today. >> back in 1984, they could at least do a type of blood testing, where they can determine whether or not an individual is a secreteer or a fawn secreteer, basically narrow it down to 20% of the population. >> roughly 80% of americans are secreters, meaning their bodily fluids contain markers for blood type. the other 20% non-secreters don't have those markers. >> the killer was a fawn secreter? >> correct. >> that meant it couldn't be lance, the ex-boyfriend. she said lance threatened her with a knife. blood tests revealed he was a secreteer. heed a anal by putting him 300

miles away. >> he was staying with his parents, working at the local gym there. they were satisfied he was not in town when this took place. >> so he was eliminated based on that. >> and what about ben? angie's oddly unemotional boy? who officers thought acted strangely on the night of the murder. did police check to see if there were scratches or bruises on him? >> they checked that. they checked his vehicle. they checked his apartment for any type of blood, bloody clothes, things like that. >> nothing in. >> nothing. >> and tests showed ben was also a secreteer. whoever had raped and killed angie was not. so cross ben off the list. >> which leads russell. >> and he was a non-secreteer. so he could not be eliminated. >> his alibi is he was home in bed, not exactly the strongest. >> there was no witness that could confirm where he was after he was dropped off by angie and anita. >> no one could confirm he went

to bed, where he was after that. >> did he ever move off that story? >> in. >> and russell said, there was nothing romantic about the evening. it was just a night out for three young people. >> he continue to the insist that he didn't have any feelings for angie, he didn't perceive that evening as a date and he wasn't romantically interested in that. >> i get the feeling no one believed that. >> things weren't adding up. >> soon they were questioning about russell. >> was there some specific thing they wanted to know in. >> did i think he was romantically interested if angie was the primary question. i think they were sort of piecing together we went out that night. that he had some romanic interest in her and she had rebuffed him, since he lived within walking distance that he had committed the crime. >> what anita didn't know was the day off the crime, russell left town for about 24 hours. it seemed suspicious.

when he returned, police paid him a visit. he told them he didn't know anything about angie's murder, even though it was in the headlines and all of local news. it seemed hard to believe. police saw both motive and opportunity and while there was no witness placing russell at the crime scene, there was also no one to back up his alibi. angie's friend shela met with the lead detective who laid out for her the police theory. >> russell snapped is the word he used and then he grabbed a knife, took her into the room and proceeded to rape her. this is probably the one and only murder he will do, that it was just a passionate moment and he snapped and he's going to be back to his old, calm self interest investigators asked shela to have dinner and ask him about his whereabouts the night of the murder. she agreed. >> it was so uncomfortable. here i am sitting across from

this man thinking i am eating dinner with a murderer. i'm getting into a car with a murder. this guy murdered my roommate. >> even to she larks russell stuck to his story just a couple weeks after the mur when police asked him to take a lie detector test, in fact, he was found to be truthful when he was asked questions about angie's murder, about three months later, dallas police took a second look. >> and they looked at the polygraph again and came to the consensus, he was deceptive on those questions. >> that's a big question from the way the original polygraph were perceived. >> huge. they had their guy now. >> i did not want to believe it was somebody close to her. it was more than i can handle. >> did you think police were financial to charge russ snell. >> oh, yes. >> they didn't, russell hired an stoern attorney and stopped talking with police. >> they told me he lawyered up

and they couldn't touch him and russell was leaving the country, so, of course, he was leaving the country. he had lawyered up. he is hiding. it's done. he's going to fet away with murder. >> not so fast. russell buchanan is about to tell us a story that will make you reevaluate everything you just heard. reevaluate everythin . >> coming up, russell answers the tough questions. the police theory was you attacked her, had sex with her and stabbed her to death. >> and then will investigators finally have a way to know if he's telling the truth. >> he did have a sam 'le that in today's technology to try to find a dna standard. >> when "dateline" continues. s. >> when "dateline" continues

finally have a way to know if finally have a way to know if

hello, i'm darragh brown, former minneapolis police officer fatally shot daunte wright was sentenced to 24

months in prison. she will serve the last eight months on supervisors release. it's far lower than the seven years the prosecution sought. a classified national security materials were in the 15 books recovered from donald trump's mar-a-lago residence. the agency has asked the justice department to further investigate the matter. now, back to "dateline." k to . welcome back to "dateline." i'm craig melvin. detectives were convinced they knew who killed angie samota. russell buchanan had the means and the possible motive. but the evidence against him was circumstantial and soon the case went cold. russell had his own story to tell. the truth would lay dormant for decades only to be uncovered by an amateur sleuth obsessed with

the case. back to josh mankiewicz with in the mild of the night. >> several months after angie samota was raped and murdered, the prime suspect russell buchanan hired an attorney and refused to speak with police him several months after that, he left the country. it seems suspicious, but without enough evidence to arrest russell, police could not stop him. russell was not arrested or charged in angie's murder. he went on to become a successful architect. it had been nearly 30 years when russell decided to talk, once again, about what happened that night and about angie. >> her friends describe her as the kind of girl that guys get crushes on. >> maybe so. >> possible that you had a crush on her in. >> no no, not at all. i hardly knew her. >> but after questioning angie's friend anita about that shared night out, investigators wrote

that she told them that the evening centered around russell and angie and that anita in the as if she were along for appearances sake only. >> it certainly didn't occur to me it was angie and russ. it was the three of us. i remember anita and i sitting at the table visiting while angie was out on the dance floor dancing. >> russell had told police angie and anita dropped him off around 1:00 a.m. he then went to sleep. for him, that was the end of the night. >> your alibi was you were home in bed? >> yeah. there was no way to prove it, unfortunately. >> the police theory was that you after you were dropped off walked back to angie's house, knocked on the door, she let you in, because she knew you. you already had a thing for her. something went wrong, you attacked her. you had sex with her. you raped her.

and then since she knew you and she could identify you, you stabbed her to death. >> that's what they thought. >> and so in the days after the murder, police started picking up russell after work and bringing him down to the station for questioning. >> it seemed like two or three times a month for six months, as they got towards the five-to-six month time period, there was a significant shift in the tone and tenor of the interrogation. >> more accusatory? >> outright accusatory. i recall in detail the detective leaning back in his chair with an envelope, photographs of the crime scene that they were absolutely horrific. he would hold them up in front of me and his questions were, russell, this looks familiar, doesn't it? you remember this, don't you? because you did this.

>> we think you did this? >> no, it wasn't we think, it is you did this. you had sex with her, you killed her. you stabbed her 18 times. >> but russell continued to deny it. that steady drum beat of accusation and denial ended only with russell hired the attorney and refused any further free trips downtown. and the murder of angie samota then went cold for years. then in 2004, 20 years after the crime, angie's friend shela by then living in nashville decided to act on something she thought about for a while. >> i actually had felt angie around me for a while and then i was doing homework for a bible study class and all of a sudden i look up and as you are sitting there, there was angie. and then i thought, it's time.

and i called the police. >> and said? >> i wanted to know about the angela samota case, who was working on it, if they were working on it and if they weren't, would they reopen it? and at that point told me nobody in 20 years had called, not one single phone call. >> that prompted shela to take a big step. she decided to get a private investigator's license to see if she could learn enough about crime and criminals to actually help solve angie's murder. at the very least, she wanted dallas police to take her seriously. she earned her license in 2006 and called the police again. >> i said, i'm a private investigator, you need to send me all the information on angela samota's case and i need to talk to the detective and i need you to tell me what has been done, what hasn't been done, where's

the information, where's the evidence, all of that. it wasn't well received at all. >> but they met with you to talk about the case in. >> no, no. >> they gave you the evidence? >> no no. >> they gave you regular updates? >> no, no, no no none of it. >> it doesn't sound like me it helped to be a private eye. >> it did not. so after finding out they were not going to welcome me into the investigation, i started making phone calls to them and the first 50 phone calls went to the lead detective who had been moved to traffic. i got nowhere with him. and finally one day, six months into it, i talked to a receptionist who said, he's in retirement. he's not even working traffic. >> wait a minute, you left 50 messages in one month? >> yes. i'm a little obsessive. >> shela's persistence paid off. she eventually was put in touch with the investigator looking at

cold cases a. woman who dusted off the old angie samota files, took a look inside and found some promising evidence. >> in those six when she decided to reopen the case, she went of to the lab and realized they did have a rape kit, they did have a sample that in today's technology could be tested to try and find a dna standard. >> by 2006, of course, dfa testing had evolved. some of angie's other friend approached police about reopening the investigation. but it was shela who eventually made more than 700 phone calls over the years, trialing to move angie's case forward. she even offered to pay for the dfa testing herselfgy is said, okay, i'll send you a check. i'll i don't have night it. who do i make it out to? she said, you can't do that. we're not allowed. >> that's something the police department and fbi. >> right. >> finally if 2008, the dfa sample from angie samota's cold

case was entered into the national database. so shela wysocki the frightened co-ed turned mom turned private eye, the pieces were about to finally fall into place. >> you still focused on the theory that russell but dannon did it and got away with murder in. >> oh, absolutely. absolutely. i found out he was still in dallas that he was actually a professional and i kept thinking why is this man having a good life after he had murdered angie? it was going to be solved, russell was going to go to jail. >> well, just a minute. >> shela's per since breathed new life into a case that saturday cold for nearly 24 years. now, the investigation was about to take a stunning turn. coming up. >> the detective said, we got him. my mind immediately went to russell, who else could have done it? >> good question. but the last thing she was

prepared for was the answer. when "dateline" continues. trea. it includes the compassionate healthcare professionals, the dedicated social workers, and the supportive peer counselors we work with "dateline" continues.en change - people's lives. moving from mental illness to mental wellness starts in our circle. this is intra-cellular therapies. i have moderate to severe ulcerative colitis. so i'm taking zeposia, a once-daily pill. because i won't let uc stop me from being me. zeposia can help people with uc achieve and maintain remission. and it's the first and only s1p receptor modulator approved for uc. don't take zeposia if you've had a heart attack, chest pain, stroke or mini-stroke, heart failure in the last 6 months, irregular or abnormal heartbeat not corrected by a pacemaker, if you have untreated severe breathing problems during your sleep, or if you take medicines called maois.

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♪far-xi-ga♪ march 2008, the dna from angie samota's killer was entered into codis, the international database. finally police have the answer that elude them two 23.5 years. >> we got the match. >> i received the calm. it was the detective. and she said, we got him. my mind immediately went to russell. who else could have done it? >> and then she says to you --

>> it's not russell. >> it's not russell. >> it's not russell. you could not have shocked me any more. everything i had known my whole life was just gone. this whole time i thought, this guy had done it and it wasn't him. it wasn't him. >> good morning, everybody, lindsay riser live from world headquarters in new york, where we are watching and waiting for vice president kamala harris to address the deteriorating situation at the ukrainian border. we saw secretary of state antony blinken walk in. they are introducing the vice president. she is expected to give a message about what's going on currently in this situation as the president just said yesterday, they have intelligence an attack is imminent, an invasion on ukraine is imminent. we are waiting to hear to watch vice president horizon walk up to this podium.

we should hear her message to really the world leaders here of the world. we know that president zelensky of ukraine is expected to come today. let's listen in. >> thank you. good morning, good morning. thank you, ambassador. and to all of the very extraordinary leaders who are here today, i thank you for the kind introduction and your years of dedicated leadership. thank you,als to chancellor schultz for your kind words. so it is an honor to join all of the distinguished leaders from around the world this morning. i am certain we all recognize this year's gathering is unlike those of the recent past. not since the end of the cold war has this forum convened

under such dire circumstances. today, as we are all well aware, the foundation of european security is under direct threat in ukraine. let us remember, from the wreckage of two world wars a consensus emerged in europe and the united states. a consensus in favor of order, not chaos, security, not conflict. so by forging relationships and bonds, forging organizations and to institutions, laws, and treaties, we, together, established a set of rules, forms, that have governed ever

since. and europe has enjoyed unprecedented peace, security, and prosperity through a commitment to a set of defining principles. the united states is equally committed to these principles. that people have a right to choose their own form of government, that nations have a right to choose their own alliances. that there are inalienable rights which governments must protect that the rule of law should be cherished, that sovereignty and territorial integrity of all states must be respected and that national borders should not be changed by

force. [ applause ] we are here in munich together to reaffirm our commitment to these principles. these principles have brought us peace and security. the backbone of this, of course, is nato. the greatest military alliance the world has ever seen. as a defensive alliance, we have deterred act of aggression against nato territory for the past 75 years. and today let me be clear, america's commitment to article 5 is iron clad. this commitment is sacrosanct to

me, to president biden, to our entire nation. in fact, i am joined here in munich by a bipartisan delegation from the united states senate and the united states house of representatives. they are democrats and republicans. they have a wide range of political views. but they stand together in recognition of the value and the importance of our nato alliance. now, even in the most difficult times for our trans-atlantic community and even when our system has been tried and tested, we the united states and europe have come together and demonstrated our strength, and our unity. just as we do today. as we stand in this decisive moment, with all eyes on ukraine, as we have said all

along, there is a playbook of russian aggression. and this playbook is too familiar to us all. russia will plead and innocence. it will create false pretexts for invasion and it will amass troops and firepower in plain sight. we now receive reports of what appears to be provocations, and we see russia spreading disinformation, lies and propaganda. nonetheless, in a deliberate and coordinated effort, we together are, one, exposing the truth and, two, speaking with a unified voice. as president joe biden has made

clear, the united states, our nato allies, and our partners have been and remain open to serious diplomacy. we have put concrete proposals on the table. we have encouraged and engaged russia through nato, the organization for security and cooperation in europe, the united nations and bilateral dialogues. we have engaged in good faith. russia continues to claim it is ready for talks while at the same time it narrows the avenues for diplomacy. their actions simply do not match their words. and let me be clear, i can say

with absolute certainty if russia further invades ukraine, the united states together with our allies and partners will impose significant and unprecedented economic costs. [ applause ] we have worked intensively with many of you in this room to ensure we are prepared to move forward with consequences. we have prepared together economic measures that will be swift, severe and united. we will impose far-reaching financial sanctions and export controls. we will target russia's

financial institutions and key industries. and we will target those who are complicit and those who aid and abet this unprovoked invasion. make no mistake, the imposition of these sweeping and coordinated measures will inflict great damage on those who must be held accountable. and we will not stop with economic measures. we will further reinforce our nato allies on the eastern flank. in fact, together we have already taken steps to strengthen our deterrence and collective defense. we have deployed an additional 6,000 american service members to romania, poland and germany. we have put another 8500 service

members in the united states on a heightened sense of readiness. as president biden has said, our forces will not be deployed to fight inside ukraine, but they will defend every inch of nato territory. since russia launched its proxy war against ukraine, nearly eight years ago, the people of ukraine have suffered immensely. nearly 14,000 people killed. more than a million displaced. and nearly 3 million in need of aid. the united states has provided significant support to ukraine, security assistance, humanitarian assistance and economic assistance. and we will continue to support the people of ukraine.

i believe it is important for us, all of us, as leaders, to never forget the cost of this type of aggression. on human lives and livelihoods. so, the united states, our allies and our partners together we have achieved remarkable unity. it is evident in our shared acknowledgement of the threats. our united response and our determination to uphold international rules and norms. in the face of russian aggression, i have been reassured and heartened by the widespread agreement across the transatlantic community that these rules and norms will be

defended. and we should not lose sight of how rare it is in history to have a prolonged period of relative peace and stability. so let the past few months be a reminder to us all, defending the rules and norms, upholding our principles, this is the vital work of each generation. in recent years some have questioned whether the west is up to the task. some have wondered whether this system can endure. some have done so even on this very stage. indeed, the theme of this conference two years ago questioned the staying power of the west, whether or not the

transatlantic community was losing its cohesion, its influence, its appeal. so i will answer the skeptics and those seeking to test us. today the united states, our allies and our partners are closer together. today we are clear in our purpose, and today we are even more confident in our vision, our strength must not be under estimated. because, after all, it lies in our unity and as we have always shown it takes a lot more strength to build something up than it takes to tear something down. thank you all. [ applause ]

>> all right, everybody, we were just listening to vice president kamala harris address the munich security conference. seems like one of the business themes of her remarks is strength through unity talking about the u.s. and other nato allies and other nations trying to prevent any further russian aggression toward ukraine saying our strength lies through unity and also saying it takes a lot more strength to build something up than it does to tear something down. right now i want to bring in jack jacobs, an msnbc military interest and joel ruben, former deputy assistant secretary of state of the washington strategy group. colonel, first to you, kamala harris was calling russia out, talking about their playbook, basically saying they'll plead ignorance and innocence, create false pretext. we've seen all these things. what struck you, colonel? >> it's pretty much the same

message as we've been getting since the beginning of this crisis, but it's interesting to note that putin's been working on this for 20 years. almost since the beginning of his tenure for life now as head of russia. he's been working to resecure his western flank that is eastern europe, expand russia and russia's influence, he's been working on that continuously, in particular, ukraine. and as we already saw in crimea, it's something that's of vital importance to him personally and to those around him. what's really significant here is that we have embarked on a series of moves which will prove to be very much different than any conflict before. the russians have already been using disinformation, been using cyberattacks and they've been fine-tuning their ability to

make life extremely difficult and not just for ukraine, but you can expect also for the west. don't forget that if as and when we impose really draconian strictures on russia, and on the people at the top of the food chain in russia, you can expect that russia and its allies are going to counterattack in the cybersphere. we're very, very good at aggressive and offensive use of cyberweapons. we're not so good at defense and one has to hope that we are -- we're better now than we have been in the past because you can expect a counterattack from russia in this sphere. >> colonel, we'll go ahead and listen in. there is a question and answer period going on. let's listen. >> not just today as we sit here and even beyond the current administration, i think that is such an important