they're frantically working on last-ditch options on the table to stop vladimir putin from invading ukraine. >> while the die may be cast, until it actually settles, until the tanks are rolling and the planes are in the air, that we're going to try everything we possibly can to get president putin to reverse the decision we believe he's made and dissuade him. part of that is the prospect of massive sanctions. >> in a moment i'll talk to congressman garamendi who is in brussels to attend a nato summit. also this hour, the january 6th committee moving ahead with even more subpoenas and a focus on the fake elector scheme. so, when will public hearings begin? i'll be talking with committee member zoe lofgren as well.

we're following breaking news out of england. the queen has, in fact, tested positive for covid. at the scenes of anti-vaccine protests in canada, familiar to those of us in the u.s. there's a very good reason for that. at "the daily show's" jordan klepper pointed out. >> oddly enough, that wasn't the only thing canadians were appropriating. >> i hate to use that slogan, but make north america great again. >> make north america great again. i don't mean to use that guy's word. >> maga tactics at the heart of a confrontation that has fox news cheering on demonstrations hurting the u.s. economy, begging the so-called freedom convoy to come to a neighborhood near you. more on that. we want to begin with breaking new information on biden'sassertion that --

biden's comments came after intelligence showed russian military was given the go ahead on invasion. it is coming as president biden wraps up a rare sunday meeting with his security council moments ago in the situation room. discussing the latest buildup of russian troops along the ukrainian border. let's go to josh lederman at the white house. a couple things to tick through. you and i spoke in the last hour. a lot has changed since then, especially the president's tiktok over the next 24 hours. we're getting a short, a brief, but a readout on the national security meeting. talk us through it. >> reporter: let's start with the president's schedule. the last time i spoke to you, i let you know the white house had abruptly announced president biden was no longer going to stay here in washington as planned today. he was actually going to go home to wilmington tonight to spend presidents' day at his home

there. the white house now saying, that's no longer happening. that the reason he was going to go to wilmington tonight in the first place was because of some type of family issue, but now the president will no longer leave and will stay here at the white house. so, make of that what you will. in the meantime, we are getting our first details about this meeting that the president held with his national security council in the situation room today. the white house releasing a very brief statement, simply saying that they discussed russia's continuing military buildup along the border. as you can see in that photo we were showing, the array of top officials who are now front and center on this. you see bill burns there, the cia director, indicating the intelligence aspect of this. and then on the right-hand side of the screen is janet yellen, the treasury secretary. you might be wondering why the treasury secretary would be at a ukraine meeting. it is her department that is

responsible for enacting those unprecedented sanctions the u.s. for weeks has been threatening against ukraine if it were to go ahead and invade. secretary of state blinken, who also was at that meeting today, we saw him leave the white house just a few minutes ago. he was on "meet the press" this morning where he laid out how everything the u.s. has predicted would happen, in his view, is now happening. take a look. >> it certainly looks like everything we said was likely to occur in the leadup to the actual invasion is happening. we're seeing false flag operations taking place in eastern ukraine. the manufacturing of provocations and justifications for russia to go in. all of this seems to be following the script that i laid out at the united nations security council and that president biden talked about to the nation the other day. >> reporter: now, we know be that the next diplomatic step here, yasmin, is going to be a meeting that blinken is planning for later this week in europe with the russian foreign minister, sergey lavrov.

the white house saying that will only take place if russia does not invade. we also heard from russia's ambassador to the united states, who was on another network, saying we never had any plans to invade. we still don't have any plans to invade. once again, accusing the u.s. and ukraine of being proceed provatue. are you s in this conflict. want to bring in john geramadi from brussels attending a nato summit. thank you for joining us. nbc news learning, of course, this intelligence report handed over to the president just a few days ago, essentially saying vladimir putin has made up his mind, that he is going to invade. want only has he made up his mind, he has instructed the russian military to invade. it's been 48 hours or so it seems this directive was given.

what do you make of it? >> i can tell you what's happening here in brussels. that is the parliamentarien from the nato countries are gathering, some are in the hotel already. there's quite a buzz going on about how russia will and when do this. and solidarity, recognizing this is an incredibly different situation than anything europe has seen in, perhaps, more than 70 years and extraordinarily troublesome for the nato countries and those that are not nato, but are up against the russian border. there's a lot of talk here, a lot of concern, and enormous amount of, we've got to be together about all of this. >> expand on the topic for me, congressman. you can't just say they're talking and not tell me what they're talking about because we think about the nato countries involved if not affected by this directly. boris johnson saying at one point this could literally be the greatest war we've seen in

europe since world war ii, since 1945, i believe he said. so, what is the talk, how worried are they? >> well, i would say both worried that it would happen or will happen, and if it does, what are going to be the results? first of all, all of us understand there has to be very strong economic sanctions. those sanctions are going to be severe to russia, but there will also be consequences for the rest of the world. the delegates here are just saying, we have to deal with that. we can't let russia be allowed to do this without any pushback, without any severe consequences. there seems to be a strong willingness to accept whatever the unintended or the ancillary consequences might be. beyond that, they want, particularly the eastern nato countries, they want more presence of nato troops in those

countries. that's certainly the case in the baltics and in poland, romania and that area. also, many of these countries continue to supply defensive armaments to ukraine. not all of the countries. there are some that have not done that. germany, principally. but other countries are. certainly the united states is doing it. also there's something very important going on here, and that is an appreciation for the way in which the biden administration has rallied nato and the european union. far different from what i heard a year ago when trump was in power -- more than a year, i guess, 15 months ago, when trump was in power and there was dismay, disunity, and the parliamentarians were concerned there could be consequences from that. well, there are consequences. whether it's directly related to

the effort -- four-year effort of trump to dismantle and degrade nato remains to be seen. but now there's a desire, almost a puffing up of their shoulders saying, yes, we're nato, we're going to stand strong. that's really important. certainly we're hearing that from the bipartisan delegation from the united states. >> so, let me ask you this. when we talk about consequences here and these sanctions that would be leveled against vladimir putin and moscow in general, zelensky obviously appealing to people around the world and saying, these sanctions should start now, you should level these sanctions against vladimir putin now. is there a concern of doing this because of the economic effects it will have against the rest of the world? is that one of the reasons why it's not happening yet? >> no, i don't think so.

it's that it might be considered by russia to be a provocation and excuse for them to invade. so, the administration has been very, very careful, as have the europeans, to not signal or to not give a provocation that russia could then use as an excuse. whether the sanctions are imposed now or shortly or immediately after an invasion really doesn't make much difference in the impact on russia. other than the provocation issue that i just said. i would expect that the united states congress, when we return on march 1st and 2nd, actually the day before the state of the union, that the congress will take up, the house of representatives and senate will take up in their committees and pass a very, very strong sanction -- list of sanctions against russia that the president can then impose. it may be that the congress would demand they be imposed.

either way, they should be imposed if there's an invasion. that includes strong economic sanctions against the export of oil and gas as well as defense materials that russia needs, banking and other sanctions, recognizing that when that happens, there will be an economic effect on europe and on the united states. and this, in my opinion, is something that we'll simply have to accept as part of what is necessary to prevent further incursions from europe. if those incursions were to take place in any way in a nato country, we're into an all-out war. so, america and nato has to step up now, be very strong, very clear that this is not acceptable, that there will be serious problems for russia should there be an invasion. now, we also need to recognize that the united states is going

to have to backfill the gas that is lost to europe. it is winter here. it is cold. and europe is going to lose those gas supplies so the united states and other allies are going to have to immediately turn the lng ships around and send them to europe so that that gas would be available in europe. >> it's going to be a global effort to get through this thing, it seems. >> indeed. >> we are also learning the president also just wrapped up a call with french president emmanuel macron. so, when we get reporting on that conversation, we'll bring it to you. for now representative, we appreciate your time, for you take the time to speak with us today. later on this hour, we'll look into the mindset of vladimir putin and discuss what he has to gain from invading ukraine. the former adviser to the president of georgia will join me on that. up next, do any of the documents taken by the national archives from former president trump's home relate to the capitol riot?

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what turned out to be a bad week for former president trump could lead to a big week for the january 6th committee. the national archives has confirmed that the 15 boxes that trump took to mar-a-lago included classified national security information. some of which could possibly be tied to the insurrection. this is coming as the president has directed the national archives to, in fact, hand over trump white house visitor logs to the panel, ignoring the former president's claim of executive privilege and as the committee prepares for a number of potential depositions from the more than 20 fake electors that have been subpoenaed over gop efforts to overturn the 2020 election in favor of the former president. joining me now is one of the members of select committee on january 6th, democratic congresswoman zoe lofgren of

california, also chair of the house administration committee. thank you for joining us, as wells we appreciate it. it's great to see you on a sunday afternoon. let's talk first about the national archives material you're receiving from florida. have you seen it yet? how important do you think it is to the investigation? >> well, we don't know because we haven't seen it. but we did ask for everything in the national archives related to january 6th and events leading up to the 6th. the process is the archives identifies that, president biden reviews whether he thinks it's suitable to be turned over. the former president has an opportunity to object, but the courts have already dealt with the executive privilege issue. so, we don't know, but i must say, i have my suspicions. i mean, why -- why would he violate the law and take these records and hide them at

mar-a-lago? we don't know. but i certainly would like to know what were in those boxes. >> are we sure that these were the only boxes, materials taken from the white house when the former president left? >> no, we're not. and we know that his adherence to the records law was pretty limited. we've already received material that he'd ripped up, which is in violation of the law. and we've now had reports -- i don't know if they're true, that he was flushing documents and clogging up the plumbing at the white house. so, who knows if there's more there. certainly we don't. >> right. learning of those reports from maggie haberman's reporting. there are certain things they need to fill in, some gaps that exist. i'm talking specifically of the

former president's call log on january 6th, the phone calls that he was making from where he was. we know that he was receiving messages. we know he spoke to people on the phone but, of course, there are those gaps in those call logs. are you worried about filling in those gaps? >> well, we know quite a bit. if he was using his cell phone, we wouldn't necessarily know about that, but, you know, we've had reports from others, people who were in the room or people in the room of the people that he was calling. so, we'd like to know everything. we'd like all the records, but we're piecing it together. there's usually more than one way to get information, and we're examining all of those ways. >> what are you hoping to learn from the fake electors that have been subpoenaed? >> well, it's clear there was a nationwide scheme to have these

fake electors is astonishing. and it's obvious that we didn't have just random individuals decide on their own to do this. the fraudulent documents they had were very similar. we want to know who organized this, who paid for it, and what was -- what was the plot, and we know we'll find some of that out from the fake electors themselves. we also will -- we have other inquiries out that will shed further light on this. but it's just astonishing effort to overturn the election with completely bogus -- i mean, fake electors. it's really amazing. >> we learned, obviously, of a plan by the january 6th committee to televise public testimony, of course, from individuals in which you were going to be gaining information

from. there may also be an end date when it comes to the january 6th committee. that's dependent on what happens come the midterm elections. that being said, is there a timeline at this point, congresswoman, as to when that testimony would begin? >> well, we don't -- we've not set a date yet. we hope to have at least the first set of hearings this spring, but obviously there are variables beyond our control. the primary variable has been the frivolous litigation that the former president and his associates have engaged in to try to keep information from the committee. if they are successful in delaying, then it delays us. but we've had a remarkable string of victories. they have won nothing in court. so, we're hoping to pick up the pace on this frivolous litigation and have our first set of hearings this spring and, of course, we won't have

everything done by then, we expect, but a large -- a large enough portion to start telling the story to the american people. >> congresswoman zoe lofgren of california, thank you. >> thank you. when we come back, the latest on queen elizabeth's condition after testing positive for covid. despite that concerning news, we have good news in the pandemic. covid optimism is running pretty high across the country. the details on that all ahead. c. c. the deskin at 4 monthsl ahead. r after just two doses. skyrizi may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. before treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms, such as fevers, sweats, chills, muscle aches, or coughs or if you plan to or recently received a vaccine. ♪ nothing is everything. ♪ woman: talk to your dermatologist about skyrizi. learn how abbvie could help you save. (burke) this is why you want farmers claim forgiveness... woman: talk to your dermatologist about skyrizi. [echoing] claim forgiveness-ness, your home premium won't go up

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for strength and energy. woo hoo! ensure, complete balanced nutrition with 27 vitamins and minerals. and ensure complete with 30 grams of protein. ♪ ♪ men put their skin through a lot. day-in, day-out that's why dove men body wash has skin-strengthening nutrients and moisturizers that help rebuild your skin. dove men+care. smoother, healthier skin with every shower. let's get back to breaking news out of buckingham palace. queen elizabeth testing positive for covid. want to get to nbc's molly hunter who is there with the very latest. talk us through it. >> reporter: yasmin, we don't have that much information, to be honest. this morning before noon, local time, we got a statement from buckingham palace saying the queen tested positive today. it said she had mild cold-like symptoms. the good news is, apparently

she's feeling well enough to be at her desk. she expects to continue light duties at win sore. she's receiving this country's best medical care. she says she will continue to abide by any government guidelines. the palace is not sharing any details about where she might have caught it, yasmin. to catch you up in the last two weeks, we know camilla and charles have both tested positive for covid. we saw the queen on wednesday, after her son and daughter-in-law had both tested positive, and she was looking healthy on wednesday. she was greeting military leaders in person without a mask. the other big things we don't know, though, from this statement today, yasmin, we don't know when she first started presenting symptoms. we don't know where in the last few days she may have caught it. really key, we don't know whether or not she's been boosted. we have asked the palace. we know they announced she's been double vaccinated but they have not confirmed she's been boosted. we assume she has but this is not like the president of the united states. we don't get physicals of the queen. the palace is very clear they don't give rolling health

updates about her majesty's health. anything we find out, whether today, tomorrow, this week, we are hungry for more information, anything that will be information they directly want us to know. the only way to find out information about the queen's health is going to be have official press releases from buckingham palace. yasmin? >> molly hunter for us, thank you. meanwhile, everybody, here at home, optimism is growing as americans are more eager than ever to travel and they're spending big to do it. americans are emerging from the pandemic, ready to splurge, everything from travel, sports, cruises, theme parks as well. with me now to talk more about this is "wall street journal" reporter will fuhrer. this is a good news story, right, because despite the fact that the omicron variant was raging just a few weeks ago in this country, it seemed like everybody and their mother tested positive for covid, we at mns specifically have been talking a lot about the concerns

americans have with inflation, that being said, they're spending and businesses are reflecting that. talk us through some of the numbers. >> yeah, that's right, yasmin. thanks for having me. you know, look, what businesses have been saying the last couple of weeks is their report fourth quarter earnings is americans have been stuck in their home for two years. they look outside, they see covid cases falling, restrictions coming down across the country. on top of that, you have the economic layer of people's personal finances generally, especially among wealthier americans, are better than they have been. people have been saving throughout the pandemic and now looking for a way to spend it. that converges for the perfect storm for an explosion of travel early spring and summer, at least that's what travel experts would like to have you think. >> it's interesting because travel right now is sky high. it's super expensive. you want to get a flight going somewhere, you want to stay in a hotel, for instance, it's a lot more expensive than what we were seeing pre-pandemic, it seems

even with that, people still hitting the roads, hitting the air waves. it seems as if people resistant to travel, will, you write in your piece, it's not because they're afraid of getting covid. in fact, it's just the restrictions. they're more worried about that, or they just don't want to deal. >> exactly. and i thought that expedia, the travel software company, they put it really well. they called it the inconvenience factor. they're seeing people cancel flights, sure, this december and january because of omicron. but it wasn't like the delta wave where people were canceling because they were genuinely afraid of getting infected or spreading the virus. they were frustrated with the fact they didn't know exactly if there were going to be new restrictions. and the labor shortage partially caused by the omicron variant. they didn't know if staff would at hotels and bars and if flights would take off on time. people thought, i'll wait for,

five, six months and travel this summer. >> we talked about inflation. inflation at this point is outpacing wage growth. we have job growth in this country, wage growth as well. the economy in that respect is doing well. inflation at this point is outpacing it. is there a moment we feel as if inflation could catch up to spending? >> yeah. and i think that's one of the biggest things people will be watching over the next year. so far, you know, consumer sentiment survey after survey has shown it's hitting all-time lows because of inflation, because of general worries about the pandemic, perhaps, because of potential conflict in europe. at the same time, though, spending keeps on hitting record highs. so, so far there's been kind of a disconnect between how people are feeling about, at least how people say they're feeling about personal finances and what they're actually doing, which is spending a lot of money. >> yeah. will, thank you. we appreciate it. coming up, everybody, make canada great again.

the quantity have country's so-called freedom convoy of truckers has adopted the maga tactics to protest vaccine mandates. why is fox news celebrating this group, even though it's hurting american workers? tucker carlson even selling i heart trucker shirts. g i g i heart trucker shirts or fist bump there, or...oh! i can't wait to go there! or reunite there, ♪ ♪ start here. walgreens makes it easy to stay protected wherever you go. schedule your free covid-19 booster today.

welcome back, everybody. the same aggressive tactics fueled by former president trump and the maga movement here in the united states have now been on display in canada for weeks, just across the border. the so-called freedom convoy, they have blocked everything from roadways, downtown city centers, disrupting life for residents in the capital ottawa. it began as a trucker rally against vaccine mandates. take a listen to what happened during our show yesterday when i tried to speak with a ctv reporter about this demonstration. >> the maga movement in the united states, we have seen a

lot of this kind of thing but protesters, the occupation of the city for three weeks, increasingly turning their anger. [ bleep ] kinder, gentler canada -- [ bleep ]. >> he even apologized, if you didn't hear it, for not necessarily showing the best of kaddah. that chaotic scene we've seen since donald trump instilling this false idea that the left is out to get you and the media is fake news. all canadian protesters have to do to hear the same rhetoric, by the way, is listen to fox news. >> the canadian trucker convoy is the single most successful human rights protest in a generation. >> send us solidarity, love and, well, support for all of the brave people that are there. don't give up. >> nothing terrifies the elites more than a public that is well organized, well informed and standing for their god-given freedoms.

>> want to bring in my panel, rick wilson, republican strategist and co-founder of the lincoln project and matthew dowd, msnbc political contributor and former strategist for the bush/cheney presidential campaign. rick, let me start with you. i want to be clear here, first, as we covering these protests, cal perry was up there for quite some time. it was a small group. 85% of the truckers were actually vaccinated. this is not the majority of canadians that actually believe in what was happening up there. millions of dollars were being lost because of these protests. the city of ottawa was essentially put on hold, so many things disrupted in that city, and yet these folks were painted as heroes and champions by fox news. do you see this as a reflection of kind of the maga era of donald trump? >> absolutely. thanks for having me today. i think what you're seeing here

is the performative nature of what used to be conservativism. now it is just the objection to power, the objection to expertise, the objection to anyone they call the elites. what you're seeing in a thing like this is essentially they're always looking for any wedge between working people and norms and institutions in the modern era. they want the disruption, they want the chaos. their idea is not about vaccination. it's about destroying the infrastructure politically and socially that keeps people like steve bannon and the folks at fox news from assuming more power. they believe in chaos. they believe in -- they believe in disorder. they're the same people, by the way, who absolutely lose their minds when black lives matter protesters peacefully assemble. the same people that lose their minds when folks say, you know, maybe george floyd shouldn't have been murdered in the street. their double standard is wired

into their dna at this point. >> matthew dowd, i want to play for you some sound from jordan klepper for "the daily show" who did coverage. >> i hate to use that slogan, but make north america great again. >> make north america great again. i don't mean to use that guy's word, but it's true. >> to be honest, it wasn't even his. he stole it from another guy before him. >> i see the q army on your head. q, the american thing, trying to find jfk jr.? >> exactly, yes. >> matthew, what do you make of that? >> well, if it wasn't so dangerous, it would be laughably funny and we could joke about it, but i agree completely with rick. i would actually -- i think all of this is a seamless thing, including adding to fox news' stand on ukraine and russia.

i think it's all part of the exact same pattern, which there is a segment of society, and fox news seems to be infiltrating it. it's not just america and us lending our worst ideas to our foreign -- our northern neighbor, but it's happening in other countries in the world. and this is the danger. the danger is that there is a group of people that no longer believe in the we. they no longer believe in the common good. they no longer believe in the first, you know, seven words of the constitution of the united states of america, which is we the people of the united states. so, they -- what they've done is they're putting i over we. it's why people don't get vaccinated. it's why they say, don't stand up for ukraine. it's why we're doing all of these things and fighting over so many things, and fox news is the leader of the me movement. it's all about me. it's all about what's best for me. it's all about what's only in my interest. and if society as a whole or the common good somehow infringes on what i perceive as some -- of

some restriction, then me is more important than we. and that's a troubling thing. it's incredibly troubling because democracies depend on the ability to get to the we. >> let me ask you this, rick, is there a way to get those people back, to bring them back from the dark side, right, or are they past the point of no return? >> you know, it's -- >> as we get further and further away from -- sorry. i just want to say, as we get further away from a trump presidency, and if he doesn't run for re-election or loses in 2024, can you pull them back? >> at this point, they exist in a bubble created by fox news, talk radio, the right wing sort of ecosystem of hermetically sealed facebook pages and far-right blogs that tell them they are under assault, that tell them that george soros and the globalists are coming to

sterilize them, that tell them all this exotic, bizarre conspiracy every day. it's hard to pull them back into the small d democratic principles that founded our republic. it's hard to draw them out of that, in part, because outrage is an addiction. outrage triggers something every day that makes them feel special. it makes them feel like all the craziness that they're being told all the time has some sort of broader context. and it really doesn't. it's a cruel trick by people like fox and bannon and trump that these people are so far into this. they can't really extract themselves. >> okay. so, last thing to you, matthew, and it's about essentially former president, has his luck run out. george conley wrote an op-ed for "the washington post" saying, now the man who long has had trouble finding decent legal representation may have a hard time finding tax accountants.

we have seen what's taken place over the last few weeks from now being called -- or deposed by the new york a.g., not only the former president but his children as well, and finding out those 15 boxes obtained from mar-a-lago were, in fact, classified information he took from the white house when leaving the presidency. has his luck run out? >> well, i think we've all been in this situation for five or six years when we keep thinking -- trump because he's done x or discovered y, his luck has run out. it doesn't seem to have taken place. listen, me more than anything else, maybe not more than rick, would love to see donald trump and his children in orange jumpsuits. i would love to see it. i have doubts i will ever see that. i hope they're held accountable because i think it demonstrates our society that the most wealthy people can get held

accountable. as of february 20, 202 after various things that have happened, it still hasn't happened yet. i think what we really have to concentrate on is will we get to the truth? whether or not he's behind bars and held accountable and another thing. my goal is the truth. if we can get to the truth, that's a successful thing. >> rick wilson, matthew dowd, thank you both. appreciate it. coming up, eric trump's dream dinner date. an answer you have to hear to believe. inside the mind of vladimir putin. his motivation for a potential attack on ukraine. we'll try to get that answer coming up. ukraine. we'll try to get that answer coming up.y to go fishing? i got the bait. i also earn 5% on travel purchased through chase on this rental car. that lake is calling my name! don't you get seasick? we'll find out! con. and i earn 3% on dining including takeout. so much for catching our dinner. some people are hunters.

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as incompetent as joe biden running the country? i might use this to show him the difference between about that. >> all right. enough of that. now that we know the content of that conversation, i think i can confidently say he's pretty busy that night. my high five of the week goes to a video getting new life on the internet that speaks to so many of us. the radio reporter kevin going viral with his hatred for the month of february. a two-minute diatribe six years ago, detailing why the shortest month of the year is also the worst. >> look around downtown on a february workday. this looks like a place where people who are being punished are sent. if you notice the way people cross the street in february, it is different than the summer. nobody is tap dancing or

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welcome back. i want to get to more on the swaigs in ukraine. russian troops remain ready for invasion. what happens next is up to this man, vladimir putin, has a history of invading soviet republics. can we get a look into the future by looking at his past? i'm joined by someone who has insight into that. molly mchue is an adviser to the president of georgia, invaded by putin in 2008. she is also the lead writer of great power.u.s. it is great to see you. thank you. so for joining us on this. so let's look back in order to look ahead. if we're looking at what took place in georgia in 2008, what took place in crimea in 2014 is

an invasion at this point. is it all but inevitable? >> i'm not sure that it is inevitable. it certainly seems like momentum is tipping over the edge when anybody trying to pull it back will be extremely frustrated in doing so. it seems fairly certainty point that the message putin has gotten is, he uses hard power to achieve political and strategic objectives. no one has an answer to how he does that yet. we saw in it 2008. we saw in it 2014 and we're seeing it now. and i think this is the space in which he operates. it gives him more power than he would otherwise have, given russia's economic status and everything else going on in the world. >> i want to talk about putin's motivation here. i'm hoping you know some of it. so it seems as if putin is now saying that ukraine is committing genocide, right?

and in a piece in the "new york times," he says putin's baseless claims of genocide reflect sincere belief in a world dominated by a hostile west, it is the rightful protector of russian populations throughout the former soviet republics. is this part of his motivation? it is within his right to do what he is doing or about to do to ukraine? >> certainly, this is construct that the russians have made in the modern era. they started advancing this narrative in the mid '90s, the russians abroad had to be protected as russians at home. putin has made this a central piece of his foreign policy, of the new way that russia has explained why it is doing in the world, whether you accept this as a legitimate way of building power or not, of why he projects power into his neighbors or not is up for grabs. but certainly, this is the way

they have tried to explain it to people. we need to be in georgia because we're protecting the interests of russian citizens there. we need to invade ukraine because crimeans want to be in russia. i think there's a lot of debate about whether or not that's true. >> okay. so two things here before you let you go. one is, what is he going to do with a country if he invades ukraine? a country full of people that actually hate him. and what should the u.s. and nato allies be doing to stop him? is there anything that can be done to stop him? >> i think there's a lot that can be done. we're not using appropriate imagination and how we're approaching this problem set. i think the two questions you asked are essentially the same one. it is really great that our intelligence is so fabulous and we think tomorrow is the day or whatever, and the invasion will happen. what about six months after that? what is the plan for the 12th month after that? are we really aware of how much this will change for the west,

its security, its economics, and everything else going forward? and it seems like there hasn't been a lot of thinking about that. we need to get out of this. we only have sanctions as our tool kit mentality. and really look at responding to hard power with hard power. >> yeah. i keep wondering that. what happens in day two, day three, day ten? how do you de-escalate? do we have a plan in place to do that? what does a cease fire look like? >> a lot of people will die if this happens. >> yeah. and so many questions, of course. and thinking about the loss of life. just devastating here if this actually happens. molly mckew. thank you. we have breaking news before i let you go in the world of college basketball. you're looking at video of chaos break out during a university of michigan versus wisconsin basketball game. you can see the two coaches there getting into some sort of argument. the michigan coach jawan howard hits the assistant coach in the

face. then a brawl ensues with players from both teams going at i. the big ten has released a statement. the conference is in contact with both member institutions and is currently assessing the incident and will take swift and appropriate disciplinary action when it completes its review. all right. quite some drama there on the basketball court. that wraps it up for me, everybody. i'll be back here next saturday and sunday 3:00 p.m. eastern. i'll turn it over to my friend and colleague, reverend al sharpton and politics nation. good evening. welcome to "politics nation." tonight's lead, on the edge. right now, the world is hoping for the best and fearing the worst as we await new developments from ukraine. as pnt