steps right here on the 11th hour beginning next wednesday march 2nd. that is our broadcast for this monday night, with the thanks for being with us and on behalf of all of my colleagues, on the networks of nbc news, goodnight. >> in the hallway, there were gunman. this is inside a television station on ukraine, on the thursday morning of may of 2014. this was the last video taken by the journalists who work there. , before mass men with guns told him that they could no longer freely do their jobs. the government presented a journalist with this letter, saying that their tv station was under new ownership. including to these are man and tv stations in ukraine now belong to pro russian separatists.

and they didn't just take the tv stations. all over eastern ukraine in 2014 those pro russian militia man took over police stations. government buildings, and brick-by-brick the pro russian separatists took control of two entire cities in ukraine. don't ask and luhansk. and they declared them selves independent from ukraine. that's where vladimir putin joined the fight. those two city seized by those pro russian rebels were located in a part of a part of ukraine where a lot of russian speakers. lives so, russia spent weapons and their own man into eastern ukraine to fend off the ukrainian soldiers from taking back those two cities. to keep them in the hands of those pro russian separatists.

now this has been going on for the while. there's been attempts at cease fire and peace over the years but they're fighting over those two cities in ukraine has never really stopped. more than 14,000 people have died in that conflict since it began. and ever since then those pro russian separatists have maintained that they are the ones rightfully in charge of the donetsk and luhansk provinces in ukraine. those separatists have kept a laboratory, chokehold on a chunk of those provinces we. marked in the map here in pink. and it is into that part of the world today, into that active -- that vladimir putin just rule -- . today vladimir putin announced that he was recognizing those two parts of russia controlled by the russian separatists. donetsk and luhansk, putin said he was officially wrapped recognizing those two swaths of ukraine as independent. independent of ukraine.

again, it should be notice that the separatists do not control the entirety of those to regions. but putin is now unilaterally said that it all belongs to them anyway. in an hour-long speech putin said that ukraine a former member of the soviet union was creating by russia, he essentially delight the notion of russia as -- he accused ukraine without any evidence of carrying out a genocide against russian people. he said that ukraine poses a threat to not just the russians living in ukraine to all russians. and he said because of that threat he had no other choice today but to recognize those two separatist-controlled regions as independent. to try and protect russians. immediately after his speech biden signed a series of orders and decrees that allowed him to set a so-called peacekeeping troops into eastern ukraine. again for the sake of protecting the russian people. now ukraine the general consensus after putin's announcement today is that he's not laying out a game plan for

protecting russia. he was laying out a game plan for war. it gives them an excuse to put boots on the ground under the auspices of peace before launching an all out attack. we are a kid you checked your parents into letting you sleep over at their house to talk about math for, but really you guys like to stay up all night -- tell them what they want to hear him by the time you get it's too late for anyone to do anything about it. it's a bait and switch. it's been used many times throughout history. it's a playbook that is while. because it has worked. telling the world that you would try to protect prosecute june mittens in eastern europe is how adler convince chamberlain to give them a chunk of chicago's alakija. he invaded poland under the same pretense in 1930. nine that narrative of course started to fall apart when hitler invaded denmark, norway, belgium, and france. all those countries. but by that it was too late. this is not just the strategy of starting world war ii.

we saw happening again in realtime, this is putin's big lie. fortunately, most people are seeing right through it. u.s. officials not only believe that russia is planning a full scale invasion of ukraine but also what could be a human rights catastrophe. the u.s. says that it is obtained formation that russia is planning to purged ukraine of people who might oppose a russian takeover of the country including dissidents, journalists, and anti-corruption activists, religious an epidemic i minorities, and lgbtq people. the western leaders were put to condemn putin today by recognizing the sovereignty of those two pieces of ukraine. leadership in the european union and accused them of breaking international law. the united states today immediately issued sanctions on the two russian-backed separatists regions, the european union vowed to issue

sanctions as well. and just in the last hour the deputy national security adviser announced on msnbc that the white house will be imposing what he calls quote, significant sanctions on russia tomorrow. president biden i had a fury of foreign calls it with world leaders after putin's announcement, he spoke with ukrainian president volodymyr zelensky as well as our leaders from france and germany. despite the fact that it's the middle the night in the ukraine right now, this is still very much a situation that is developing minute by minute. the president of ukraine addressed his people actually am local time, just a few hours ago. he said he considers russia's actions today to be a violation of ukraine sovereignty in territorial integrity. call for united nations security council to convene an emergency meeting to discuss the situation. that meeting was scheduled to begin a few moments ago, we will bring you headlines out of that meeting as we get them. but as the world scrambling to respond to russia's recognizing

these two breakaway pro-russia regions in the ukraine as independent. putin continues to mull full speed. ahead tonight he's ordered troops into those pro russian parts of eastern ukraine, again under the false pretenses of maintaining peace. he's calling them peacekeepers. and u.s. officials believe those new troops could be on the ground in ukraine in a matter of hours. it's important to know, that russia has had military precious in that part of ukraine since 2014. but with more treats on the roll under false pretenses, will there be consequences? joining us now live from eastern ukraine's richard engel, nbc's chief correspondent, he's located in the port city of marion poll, near the russian border. it's adjacent to areas that are -- richard, good to see you i hope you are safe and tell us what the situation is as you understand it? >> so, it was just a few hours ago as you mentioned that president zelensky brave his speech. it was the first official

response we've heard from him. and he opened with a bit of a jab at vladimir putin. vladimir putin gave a long speech he referenced lennon, he referenced all in, it was only towards the end that he said that he was gonna recognize these two breakaway provinces. he said it's late, we don't have time for history lessons we're gonna talk about the future. so immediately the tone was one of defiance. he said that they are gonna call on all the allies around basically a diplomatic calls. he hoped that the nations that were friendly to ukraine would stay with ukraine. so, that's the latest that's happened now. here in the city and other parts of the country there is

calm. there's talk that it would be start of a major invasion but instead it seems that we're seeing a more phased approach with putin laying the groundwork for potentially further advancements to come. but the situation here in this city, another major cities is just one of calm that people want to bring. they're wondering what comes next, ali? >> it's a phased approach versus the world waiting for a massive invasion were 190,000 or more troops are surrounding ukraine. in your opinion what is different about this about the approach to vladimir putin's taking today? >> so, had he come in with 190 troops and cut up across the country and advanced on kyiv all in one go the world would be much more united. there would've been the immediate position -- sanctions that have been

described as crippling. instead people are now wondering will what has really changed. is there something really different. the u.s. and others are fully implement the sanctions are just slow roll them. it gives another opportunity for there to be divisions among nato partners and so far the united states and others have said that they want to impose some sanctions but not the major sanctions. and that if there was a further invasion than there would be additional sanctions after that it's a way for putin to take one big step put troops in position and put them closer to major cities like the one i'm in right now. without fully committing and triggering the wrath of the world. >> let me ask you about the city are in right now, is it technically disputed territory. its territory part of ukraine but separatists would like it

to be part of russia. so, how does that all play into this? >> well it means that the battle dynamic should never have happened in a city like this one. it's very complicated. you can have a large segment of the population that is either in some cases there's people who would welcome our russian intervention. so, it would mean that the battle here for soldiers would be very fraught. in some cases they wouldn't have entire support of the local population and i've spoken to commanders in some small frontline villages. and they openly told me that they didn't think that the 70 or 80% of the people were with the ukrainian army in the small villages that are right on the edge of the separatist areas. so this part of the country is divided. i think that vladimir putin has been playing on that and

counting on that. >> let me ask you richard you covered this in 2014. the world was paying attention to crimea, the takeover in crimea. but in that region that you're in right now, something similar happen as we were describing. they were russian bask militias, they may have been troops they were not wearing russian insignia. what's different now that in 2014? >> well, you remember that clip you just showed a couple minutes about the television stations been taking over by masked men. by men in sort of black clothing. i was in that television at the time. i was in that clip you just showed. you just saw the back of my. head i saw this happen as it played out. there was a revolution here in 2014. putin i think was shocked by, he was infuriated by, and he saw crimea and he immediately began to take eastern ukraine. and there was a movement there, a shadowing movement that was

backed by russia. there was a clear who they were how strongly weren't but they did appear quickly, they seem to be organized, they seem to have weapons, and they quickly took over the city. and sealed it off and ran out to the ukrainian forces. and try to have similar uprisings in many other cities. and there was not an attempt -- that have now been officially recognizes with the take the city and others. but some city stood up and rejected that attempt to break away in 2014. now that putin is giving recognition to these two separatist pockets, it will revive or potentially revive that movement. where other regions, or pushed into trying to break away. taken by putin or somehow descent into civil unrest.

i think with this approach, you asked what's different with this. approach this print this approach is putin's mits clear in that speech that he sees the ukrainian government as the threat. that ukrainian government since 2014 and his view is wrong and is incorrect and is against ukraine's kissed. really and is against russia. he sees it as an obstacle that needs to be removed and perhaps by taking this piece it allows them to get the wedge in to topple the government. by allowing him to further invade or just by causing enough internal problems that zelensky's government is somehow overthrown in a -- >> richard, it's almost sun up where you are thank you for staying up with us this evening. of course we'll be talking a lot in the hours and days to come.

richard engel, and abc's chief correspondent in eastern ukraine. joining us now is michael mcfaul former u.s. invited to russia, ambassador good to see you again. thank you for being with us. i think literature was just talking about is remarkable in terms of vladimir putin has basically today in his speech entirely delegitimized or attempted to de-legitimize the history of ukraine as a country and a culture and a people. he basically said, well they're not really a country, they never were a country. this was our. were you taken aback? >> that's right. that's what he said. he said it very boldly he said it very bubbly angrily. this sounds like a guy that's ready for big. war it's not the first time he said it by the. way for many of us we've been watching putin for. years he said it many times,

even published a 6000 word as say a couple months ago. but tonight to the russian people it was to get them ready for war, to correct in his view the wrongs that weren't done when the slavitt nation ukraine and russian were divided with the collapse of the soviet union. >> tell me you actually tweeted a little while ago that this was a very sad day. i want you to sort of elaborate on that? they're a lot of people in the world who weren't expecting an invasion, 190,000 troops may be more all around ukraine ready to come in. this was a little bit different than most people were thinking. -- >> well those most people are. wrong if they don't call an invasion. okay? one country accented soldier and taxing the country why uninvited, what else do you call it but an invasion? i'm sorry, russia was russia invaded ukraine today. let me be precise putin made the orders to invade ukraine today again. this is as you guys were just talking. it happened in 2014 and it's happening -- big or vision plan i fully expect that there's a bigger invasion to. combat today was a major moment in that when he set up i'm not interested in talking in the minsk agreement, the normandy

format, the stuff they've been doing for eight years he just won in. he didn't just invade he declared the two regions of ukraine as independent countries today. think about that, think about if president biden got up one day and said okay alberta's unintended pantry. i think the world has been waiting for this massive invasion, that when this little little relatively things happen we haven't been paying attention to what it up and. and tragically or don't think this is the last step in his plan. as he outlined rather clearly in his speech. tonight >> does it weaken the resolve of the world when it looks incremental like this? >> yes. that's a great -- the biden administration right now is trying to figure out how to respond to this invasion. tomorrow i expect there will be new sanctions. everybody is like, hey wait a

minute there's already semi independent. what's the big deal? i think that's a really dilemma for the biden administration. they have another big dilemma is that they need to leave something in the tank for when russia, is probably when putin does launch and even if -- they have to respond to that while. and therefore i don't think they can use their full arsenal up -- i want to be crystal clear this was an invasion of ukraine again today. it is not a quote unquote peacekeeping operation, he sent his tanks in and its soldiers in uninvited into ukraine. that's an invasion. >> let's go even further than that, the stagecraft of this is remarkable. you declare the country's is independent then he's proposing, and they're gonna examine treaties tomorrow between these independent countries. and russia requesting these

peacekeepers, requesting russian insistence, there's a whole smoke and mirrors thing going on the you and i know that is not true. who's the fooling with this? >> it's a great question, it's intended for the russian people. he was addressing the russian nation tonight. he wasn't addressing the -- he got a little ahead of the -- i watched all three interventions the other day. first the security council meeting, i can listen to russian and understand at. and then they said let's just like you reported. to approve this. he gave his address to the nation and the two leaders of the two peoples republics. by the way i want to focus on. that peoples republic's. that's what stalin called his regimes in eastern europe when he installed them after 1945. and then he just sat down and sign the decrees recognizing them as independent countries.

and then they signed another set of papers already, presidential decrees, talking about -- military assistance. >> i want to ask you because you know i've been talking in the last few weeks about. there's a new are advocating because you're a diplomat. you were advocating for a diplomatic negotiation -- up to 18 hours ago there was discussion about biden and putin possibly meeting. the white house has pulled what thrown cold water on that idea, what's the next step? because people like you think in -- never want things to go to war. you're always hoping that there is some way people can sit down and talk about it. but how do you talk about something without doing would vladimir zelensky said in munich looking like appeasement? >> well it's just not me thinking and diplomatic terms. i talk to ukrainians every single. day and they don't want war. either they're scared to. death mr. zelensky needs to

keep calm by privately -- keep people are moving their kids out it's very scary time. it's a very sad day for me because it feels like this war is gonna go to a much bigger phase. in the next couple of. days and that's why there's even a sliver of hope about a negotiation that does not lead to tens of thousands of people dying in the ukraine. by the way ethnic russians will also die. vladimir putin bombs the capital of ukraine, kyiv, he's gonna be killing a lot of ethnic russians that he claims -- but yes people -- i feel at the door is closing. it can be very difficult for secretary blinken after what happened today to just show up in a european capital, and say let's keep trying. if they did something serious they showed some credible commitment that they were willing to talk and have a negotiation then i would do it. i wouldn't just do it to keep

hope alive. that sends a terrible message. >> ambassador thanks for analysis tonight and every day -- michael mcfaul this former united states ambassador to russia, we appreciate your time tonight. we have much more to calm in a moment we'll be joined by the supreme military commander, of nato stay with us. nato stay with us. not all plastic is the same. we're carefully designing our bottles to be 100% recyclable, including the caps. they're collected and separated from other plastics, so they can be turned back into material that we use to make new bottles. that completes the circle and reduces plastic waste. please help us get every bottle back.

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happening in eastern ukraine today united nations qt council has, is conducting emergency meeting right now the request of the ukrainian president volodymyr zelensky. this is -- france of course from the united states is there. the security council is at the moment shared by russia and there's been the scene of some very intense arguments in the last few weeks. we of course very keep a very close eye under what happened at the security meeting that's underway at new york in the -- covering the breaking news that the russian bladder putin has declared russian troops will enter eastern ukraine that's part of what he calls a recognition, of that independence. russian-backed separatists have been fighting ukrainian forces there for about eight years in response to the russian provocation united states

secretary of state anthony blinken tweeted quote, kremlin recognition of the so-called genetic and luhansk peoples republics as independent requires a swift infirmary spots, and we will take appropriate steps in coordination with partners. well as russia takes more stance towards the invasion of a sovereign nation many are wondering just exactly what a swift and firm response would look like. just the past decade and a half the world has witnessed two similar russian incursions in the neighboring territory. in 2008, russia recognized in quotes but it also referred to as independent republics. that time with a neighboring nation of georgia. that decision was followed by a conflict that forced 200,000 people to flee their homes. six years later russia did the same thing invading crimea in the ukraine a that's resulted in many as 14,000 deaths. and hundred thousands of more displacements. now russia peers to be doing the same thing in the don't ask and don't launch areas of

ukraine. it's unclear whether it will be limited to that region. a large contingent of russian forces north of ukraine in belarus a separate question, pro -- following the end of the russian war in belarus. you never -- know wrong on the ukrainian border. ukraine is surrounded by the east and towards the south. so when should we expect to see in terms of russian military action. is it going to look similar in the past russian incursions is this somehow different. how is the response to ukraine in its western allies differently seen in the past. most people it's not what we saw in the past was insufficient to deter russia from doing this again. how does the world expect to -- crimea and georgia. joining me now is a retired nun estates navy the nun estates navy the

being here. i know you keep getting asked these questions over and over again. vladimir putin is playing three dimensional chess here. we were expecting something different and he has declared these two regions to be independent nations for all intents and purposes and moving troops into ukraine. how do you see this? >> i see it as an invasion. in addition to being supreme allied commander in nato, i was after that the dean of the school of law and diplomacy at the university, leading graduate school of international relations and international law. there's a definition for an invasion. it's the imposition of armed troops for political purposes and to a sovereign country without the consent of that nation, whether it's a squad of

12 or a squadron of tanks or an army of 190, 000, that's not relevant. this is an invasion. that's what's occurring. we need to deal with it as such, and that means a significant package of response from the west, ali. >> a significant package of response from the west and that means two things. i was talking to master mcfaul earlier, sanctions, diplomacy and it means something to do with nato. all these nato countries, let's put the map up of what nato looks like today. there are a lot of nato countries around ukraine. what are they planning to do? >> i think there are three things that aliens needs to do right now. number one, you alluded to, simply stand diplomatically, goes in alliance and for the united states.

put the weight of this alliance, 30 nations representing 55% of the world's gdp. 3 million men and women under arms, almost all volunteers. an incredible, powerful alliance. put the diplomatic weight of that alliance behind ukraine's. number two, perhaps more importantly, the sanctions, a need to be overwhelming. we need shock and awe economically. that's going to be hard. putin is gonna try to fireproof's economy but there are mechanisms to take russia out of the swiss system to go after individual oligarch fortunes and above all to go after oil and gas, which is the beating heart of the russian economy. number three, relating to the alliance, if putin is going to fully continue this invasion, expanded, more throughout the country, i think the logical response is going to be a resistance, and you may see the

zelensky government leave kyiv and move to the far west to lviv in the far west of ukraine -- government in exile, and then run and resistance. much like charles de gaulle did in france in 1940, in the 1940s. we need to facilitate that. arm it, train it, the quid it, make it a very difficult move on the part of putin. there's diplomacy, economics, military response here. all of that can be, i hope, sufficient to deter putin from further conquest in ukraine. >> let's put that map of ukraine again. i want to ask you something. there is this theory that these are independent -- with a lot of russian speakers who require the protection of the russians. but there's a lot of reporting about the fact that they're looking to take the government out in kyiv. we were talking about the fact that they might move zelensky

out. they might for government in exile. how likely do you think this escalates beyond the eastern parts of ukraine, which have large russian speaking populations into the rest of ukraine? >> i think it is about a one and three chants, ali, from where we sit tonight, that putin will go full blitz, shock and awe, take it to kyiv, one in three. i think it's a two in three chance that he will take a somewhat more conservative approach and really focus is for just forces on this region -- mainly russian speakers, ethnic russians. vladimir putin has done an airdrop of passports. handed out hundreds of thousands of russian passports to ukrainians who are sympathetic to russia in the section. he will try to build around that, but we need to not be fooled by that, not to be distracted by it. ukraine has been invaded here. it requires the absolute full worse of the response from the

west. >> you made that point strongly today. mcfaul made the same point. not to fall into an idea that something else has happened here, even though it doesn't look what you think and invasion looks like from the movies or tv. ambassador, thank you for your time tonight as always. retired united states admiral james stavridis, the former nato supreme allied commander. pulitzer prize-winning -- applebaum joins us live. she lived in eastern europe when the soviet union fell apart. she is insightful things to say about what is happening right now.

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campaign almost over, while some people got to vote in advance, the most will vote tomorrow, when the republic chooses a new president and if the polls are right, they were overwhelmingly cast their vote for for ukraine for most ukrainians, freedom. from moscow means going at it

along. >> we don't need a union. we are rich in resources, from it aerials. we consult others to survive. >> and that is one of mikael gorbachev's biggest nightmare. an independent ukraine, he says will doom his chances of forging a political union out of a collapse soviet empire. the ukraine is just too important to lose. used to feed the nation, now it feeds itself. an industrial giant, the ukraine builds the soviet military's largest ships, planes and nuclear missiles. -- the founder of the soviet state said without the ukraine revolution would be a futile enterprise. all indications are that 75 years later, mikhail gorbachev is about to learn the same lesson. >> that was nbc nightly news from november of 1991, reporting on the eve of ukraine's vote on a referendum that would decide whether or not a country would break from the soviet union and gain independence.

it's easy to understand why that referendum vote was such a nightmare for gorbachev, but at the time, ukraine accounted for 21% of the entire soviet population. called the bread basket of russia, it provided the soviet union with 25% of its food and coal. the country accounted for 21% of the soviet union's industrial output. sure enough, faced with a chance of sovereignty the vast majority of eligible voters headed to the polls and overwhelmingly voted for an independent ukraine. over 90%, in fact. and in all caps, on the day after the vote, the new york times above the fold story quote, ukrainian voters crowd to the polls to create nation. officials see big margin. holiday mood. amid balloting on referendum. the times interviewed an election worker in ukraine who told the paper in poetic terms quote, this is a great day. it is the flowering of our

soul. putin himself today made it clear how important ukraine is to russia or his philosophy, specifically, in a national address today the russian leader said quote, ukraine is not just a neighboring country for us. it's an integral part of our own history, culture, and spiritual space. putin continued quote, ukraine never had a tradition of genuine statehood. from the very first steps they began to build their statehood on the denial of everything that unites us. they tried to distort that consciousness. the historical memory of millions of people, entire generations living in ukraine. and quote. the pulitzer prize-winning historian and applebaum tweeted that putin's speech was full of historical nonsense. historical nonsense now, that now has ukraine and the were rest of the world pushed to a brink of a war. joining me is an apple bomb. author of twilight of democracy. miss applebaum, thank you for

being with us tonight. you are an important voice. give us clarity on what's going on. vladimir putin is trying to convince the world of a narrative that you know not to be true. >> ukraine has had a sense of itself as a nation, an ethnic group, and identity for centuries. ukraine was a company. many ukrainians were slaves, in fact. ukraine's national poet was born as a surf and bought his freedom when he moved to st. petersburg. it's a nation that has always had a sense of itself being opposed to nobility, the aristocracy, the empire. its identity was always very closely connected to rebellion. sometimes in a -- sense, but sometimes in a positive sense, ukrainians made several attempts to become independent to tie into the russian revolution in 1917, there was briefly a ukrainian state. and then lost a war with the

red army, the bolsheviks. but even in the early days of the soviet union, the bolsheviks knew that ukraine national identity had to be acknowledged and accounted for. ukraine had to have its own republic. [inaudible] as a federation. ukraine was always a challenge. it was a challenge for the unity of the bolsheviks, the soviet union, and they always had a different sense of themselves. they were a westward looking, they talked about democracy, even back then. and from the very beginning, stalin sought to destroy them. stolen organized an artificial famine in ukraine that killed nearly 4 million people. fast forward that story today, ukraine remains a problem for putin, because ukraine aspires to democracy and aspires to sovereignty. it does not want to be part of a new russian empire, and that is a challenge to putin's version of autocracy. the idea that only he is in

charge and only he decides everything around him we are watching the. development of a very old historical argument. putin's use of this. historical nonsense. it's designed to cloud the picture. >> in 1938 the british prime minister neville chamberlain met with adolf hitler to cut a deal who was thought to avoid with ended up being world war ii. you wrote something in the atlantic yesterday which said, there are no chamberlain's in this story, but no churchill's either. ukraine will fight alone. what did you mean by that? >> so the west is not blinded by what's going on. i think the biden administration has done brilliantly and it's anticipation of what's going to happen and it's revelation of intelligence. the vice president made an

excellent speech in munich where i was a couple of days ago, bringing allies together. other allies have shown solidarity. i think whence they agreed on what will trigger the sanctions i think the sanctions will be real. there's been real military help for ukraine and yet there's a line drawn as well and we know they will be any western troops in ukraine and we know there are limits on what will be done for ukraine because russian has nuclear weapons. people fear escalation. at the end of the day it's going to be the ukrainians and their bravery and dedication to this very old idea, the idea of sovereignty, freedom. it will be their dedication to that that determines what happens. >> vladimir putin has made the argument that the west has cornered him. that the west had some sort of agreement that they would not get that close to russia. and that is what this is all about. they need a promise that new kane will never join nato.

can see that picture there, ukraine is a non-nato country, a bulwark between eastern europe and russia. but that is not really true, this isn't really about ukraine in nato, is it? >> it's not, the german chancellor was in moscow, and he said as long as iron chancellor, he said that ukraine will never be in nato. that really had no impact and this is not with this is about. it is not about ukraine being in nato. it is about ukraine being, as i said, this sovereign democracy that does not want to be part of the russian empire. and who's democracy challenges the idea of autocracy. if ukraine could be a successful democracy, look, someday will be, that is a challenge to putin's system. his argument is that, i'm the only answer for russia, only a system like mike and run russia, but ukraine is close to russia historically and geographically and historically. and if ukraine can be a democracy, they look at and say that we can have that as well. the use of nato as the

retrospective conversation about nato, remembering things that weren't set at the time and trying to bring this into the conversation, is really just a way of manufacturing an excuse. putin has wanted to occupy ukraine and a story ukraine and democracy since 2013. that is what is going on here. nato is a secondary issue. >> we do not do justice to the amount of research and time that you've done on this, but i appreciate the time that you've given us tonight and i would recommend that our viewers follow your writings. staff writer at the atlantic, we appreciate your time tonight, we'll have more news, ahead stay with us. e tonight, e tonight, we'll have more news, stay with us ♪ ♪ ♪ (trumpet solo) ♪ ♪ ♪ (typing) ♪ ♪ (cheering ♪ ♪ (typing)

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ukrainian president zelensky by phone today for more than 30 minutes. the white house said that biden condemned putin's decision to recognize the independence of russia-backed separatists regions of ukraine. and biden updated zelensky on the united states plan to respond to russia with sanctions.

in recent weeks zelensky has claimed the u.s. and other western governments were overstating the threat that ukraine faces. but he's also been quietly preparing for a possible russian attack. the question now is he ready, joining me now is the retired lieutenant alexander vindman -- and a key witness in former president trump's first impeachment. he testified about president trump's call to the president of ukraine. colonel vindman thank you for being with us tonight. i do want to ask you there is a un security council meeting underway right now that was called, an emergency meeting that vladimir zelensky asked, the united states and flat -- linda thomas-greenfield as said quote, putin wants the world to travel back in time. time before the united nations, times were empires world the world. the rest of the world has moved forward it's not 1919. it's 2022. i want to ask you what you think about that?

>> it's exactly right, it somehow will return to the geopolitics -- of we're right mix right, where the powerful can do as they please. and it's very the age of empires, it's a throwback to centuries gone by. it's exactly the kind of world who thinks he can prosper. so this is what he's trying to do. -- by invading a peaceful neighbors and he setting the blueprint for the world wants. 11 >> are you a little bit puzzled at the responses coming from some right wing american media, and now members of the republican party that seem to be implying that maybe this isn't all that bad, give me a clear reason why we should be weary of a russian invasion of ukraine? >> it's part of the reason that vladimir putin had the opportunity to conduct this offense. we're seeing the first phase

we're just seeing the first kind of encouragement and recognition of these regions. don ask and luhansk, this is just the beginning. these photos these right wing pundits, the head of the gop that supports of it really frankly have blood on their hands. because they're encouraging and entice-ing this kind of opportunism from -- and it's not just playing rhetoric that you can say something without consequences. it too often happens in the united states, this is but has real consequences. and people are gonna die because of. this >> would has to happen here, what does the united states need to do at this point, you've been advising the right president from your former job? >> there's a whole host of things that we can still do. the first thing is that we need to actually start ruling out some of the significant sanctions. this might not be the maximalist scenario we were thinking about. we need some headroom for further sanctions and frankly

there is always more things that -- we can challenge russia at every place if it wants to conduct business. so, we should start to roll out significant sanctions because russia did invade its neighbor. there's no question about. that -- now it's operating overtly and that's a violation to international law. it has there has to be consequences. there's also more that we could be doing in regards with -- ukrainians to defend themselves because there will be, this is just the opening play there is going to be an enormous amount of violence. scenarios that the biden administration played out are more than likely to come in to pass. i give it 90%, not one third probability 90% probability that we're heading in that direction. we don't have this kind of four structures put on ukraine's borders just for putin to declare these locations independent and then throw back

troops. his problems with the. ukraine so there is one thing we need to do. and frankly we might get pulled into this regardless of what we do. >> colonel thanks for your time, lieutenant colonel -- we'll be right back.

>> that does it for us tonight. we'll see you again tomorrow. it's time for the last word with lawrence o'donnell. lawrence, rough times. >> yes, ali we're going to continue the breaking news coverage of the situation with the united nations tonight. but there are other things happening today. we will be covering the latest developments in the life of defendant trump. and there are important ones. more about with president biden is working on tonight in addition to ukraine, involving his supreme court nomination. >> i'm glad you're doing that, because we had hoped to have had that conversation. i'll be tuned in for that. >> listen, ali, your full hour on ukraine was very important coverage. i was listening to every word of it. i'm very glad that i have that