i never saw -- that's not quite true. when i think about some of the things they do in the diplomatic space, some of the things they do in this space where they go off people, i think that's counterproductive. i shared that with him directly. i said, you're trying to find a way to connect it. it makes it hard for western leaders to engage with you because it lights up the human rights issues and the like. there's not much game in it. he would smile at me with a look that reminded me it is a tough world out there. no, i consider him an elegantly sophisticated counterpart and one who is not reckless but has always done the math. we may disagree with his priorities, may disagree with his math, we certainly disagree that the interests he seeks are reasonable for his country in many cases, but we should never

underestimate that he is doing this in a way where he is exhibiting his capacity to control and his deep desire of his most important objective. his most important objective is that he continues to run the deal, first and foremost. he is about power for himself. making sure his place as the leader of russia continues. >> that was former secretary of state mike pompeo late last week, offering praise for vladimir putin. and it was a message his former boss, donald trump, echoed yesterday, if you can imagine. good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it is wednesday, february 23rd. we've got willie and joe here this morning. >> yup. >> wow, listening to those comments, joe, in light of what is happening now, but come on. what is going on? >> willie, we are so far from having a republican party or having conservatives that come

out of the lineage of ronald reagan or jean kirkpatrick, or conservatives out of the mode of margaret thatcher. cold warriors out of the mode of dr. bbrzezinski. he has enormous respect and says he is elegantly sophisticated, a counterpart. he's talking about a man now who has threatened nuclear extinction on nato, on the united states, the world, if he is not allowed to invade yet again for the third time over the past 13, 14 years. someone who -- he says, elegantly sophisticated and said there's not much gain in him assassinating journalists. >> offing people.

>> not much gain in him assassinating political opponents. that it lights up the human rights light and makes it hard for them to work together. it was -- it was as pro-putin has you could see. but this is happening all over the place. this is happening on fox news. you have people on fox news who are openly, openly running down ukraine, a country that's striving to move toward the west and move toward democracy. you see it happening with the republicans in the house. you see it happening, of course, with donald trump, who just, you know, we had people asking, what would donald trump do if we had this crisis? oh, donald trump would never put up with this. donald trump is actually saluting vladimir putin for invading a sovereign power. it doesn't stop, willie. you just have to ask, what is it with this party? i don't think it's about -- some

people are saying, oh, it's because russia is a christian nation. no, it is autocracy. they worship at the altar of awe autocracy, then you have vladimir putin. donald trump and his fellow travelers respect the fact that vladimir putin can just kill anybody that gets in his way and invade countries whenever he wants to. >> yeah. the comments we just heard were not from some podcast or even a cable news host. that was the former secretary of state and director of the cia, mike pompeo, calling, in this moment, vladimir putin shrewd and savvy. the former president of the united states, donald trump, calling putin a genius right now in this moment. we should point out that all these comments, including others made by hosts on fox news, are being picked up by russian state tv and played on a loop. let's listen. you mentioned it, joe, the comment made by donald trump when he called into a show

yesterday. >> i went in yesterday and there was a television screen, and i said, "this is genius." putin declares a big portion of the ukraine, of ukraine, putin declares it as independent. oh, that's wonderful. so putin is now saying it's independent, a large section of ukraine. i said, "how smart is that?" he's going to go in and be a peacekeeper. that's the strongest peaceforce i've ever seen. there were more army tanks than i've ever seen. this is a guy that says, you know, "i'm going to declare a big portion of ukraine independent." he used the word "independent." "and we're going to go out and we're going to go in and we're going to help keep peace." you have to say, that's pretty savvy. >> perhaps, joe, not surprising from donald trump, given his relationship and his previous fawning over vladimir putin. i grew up in the 1980s during the cold war, watching ronald

reagan and republicans talk about the soviet union and eventually win the cold war. this is disorienting to hear republicans and self-described conserv conservatives, though they're probably just trumpists now, praise russia, praise the dictatorial leader of russia as he invades a sovereign country. >> liz cheney says the adulation of putin today aids our enemy. >> in the process of an invasion. >> trump's interests do not align with the united states. mike pompeo's interests do not align with the interests of the united states of america or the nato alliance we fought so hard as a country to continue to work together with. it's so unbelievable, willie. you actually have house republicans now in the middle of the greatest crisis, european crisis regarding war since world

war ii, hopefully attacking and bashing the president of the united states. saying that he is, quote, weak. he's weak? this is what weakness looks like on the world stage. house republicans, you should bow your head in shame, as we move into one of the great crisis on the global stage since world war ii. you should bow your head in shame. you are a disgrace to america. especially if you look at the fact that you have the russian foreign minister, one of the toughest diplomats on the world stage. >> lavrov. >> sergey lavrov said he conceded nato's unity. remember nato that donald trump blew apart over the past four years when he was president of the united states? remember the nato that he constantly ridiculed and mocked and said he was going to undermine? the leaders of nato in germany, whether it was angela merkel, in britain, theresa may. of course, women. of course, women.

whether it was macron in france. nato was at its weakest point since its founding in the 1940s. lavrov conceded nato's unity. >> yeah. >> that's because joe biden has been working with allies, advising putin this past weekend, quote, every western representative has come together. can i see that quote again, please? put the quote back up there. he said, every western representative declared their absolute commitment to a unified approach, which confirms, we need to negotiate with washington. of course, whoever the clown was that tweeted that out obviously doesn't understand geopolitics, doesn't understand what strength is. i'll tell ya what, nato is united. now that nato is united, you have trump republicans actually elevaing and lifting up vladimir putin in this time of

crisis. it is -- it is absolutely disgusting, willie. >> let's bring into the conversation news director for new line's magazine michael weis, who covers russia closely and has for many years. i want to get into the sanctions, to ask if they went far enough and what the impact may be on russia. let's start where we began our show this morning. vladimir putin couldn't ask for better propaganda then the former president of the united states, the former secretary of state and cia director take his side here. >> it is one thing to say you respect your adversary. mike pompeo over-egged the pudding there. that was in an interview with the national interest, an organization that has had an interesting relationship with russia, also picked up on russian television. the irony of this, the war party that putin surrounded himself with, they believe this is the time to spoil for a confrontation with the west. because they think the west is in terminal decline. people who think that by flattering vladimir putin, by

going on talk shows and primetime television shows and basically saying, "well, putin never ate a dog. why should we pick a fight with him," they think this is going to be met with respect and admiration on the part of russian strong men. no. useful idios are that. they're seen as convenient until they're expendable. they're held in contempt by the people in moscow right now, who are plotting this strategy. statin took fellow travelers cooling their heels in moscow in the 1930s and sent them away. that's how they treat people who flatter them, okay? it is really important to emphasize that this sort of trope in american politics coming from the far right and also parts of the far left only feed into moscow's grand strategy here. >> i'm so glad you used the word "useful idiot." that's what we called people in the cold war who were constantly

apologizing for soviet leaders. in the '40s and '50s, they were apologizing for joseph stalin. we now have useful idiots on the trump right that are apologizing for vladimir putin. the term fits them tightly, like a glove, mika. >> you have to wonder why they jump into that position so easily and openly. when you hear former president trump using the word "savvy" about peacekeepers, the, quote, peacekeepers, nobody on earth saw that as savvy and saw them as peacekeepers. it was as stupid as it comes. for trump to call that savvy, again, shows his stupidity and his willingness to be stupid on the world stage for vladimir putin, which makes you wonder. meanwhile, the man they're criticizing, president joe biden, imposed new sanctions on russia as he denounced moscow's actions in eastern ukraine this week, saying it

beginning of a russian invasion. he didn't see it as peacekeepers, not savvy. in a speech from the white house yesterday, biden condemned president vladimir putin's decision to formally recognize the two breakaway regions and send troops there. he warned that more sanctions would follow if putin went further. >> who in the lord's name does putin think gives him the right to declare new, so-called countries on territory that belonged to his neighbors? this is a flagrant violation of international law and demands a firm response from the international community. i'm announcing the first tranche of sanctions to impose costs on russia in response to their actions yesterday. these have been closely coordinated with our allies and partners, and we'll continue to escalate sanctions if russia escalates. none of us will be fooled. there is no justification. further russian assault in ukraine remains a severe threat

in the days ahead. if russia proceeds, it is russia and russia alone that bears the responsibility. >> none of us will be fooled, maybe except for the two people we've been talking about. the sanctions announced by biden target large russian financial institutions and moscow's sovereign debt, cutting off the country from western financing. they also focus on five wealthy russian elites and their family members but do not go after putin directly. the president also said he was moving additional u.s. troops to the baltics. >> let me be clear, these are totally defensive moves on our part. we have no intention of fighting russia. we want to send an unmistakable message though, that the united states, together with our allies, will defend every inch of nato territory and abide by the commitments we made to nato. >> let's bring in pentagon

correspondent for the "new york times," halleen cooper. >> thank you so much for being with us. the president put those sanctions out yesterday. many people didn't believe he went far enough. he said, "i may be coming in with further sanctions." we were talking about how the president had brought nato together and, of course, with the help, of course, with our nato ally, it was a collective effort. the president starting sanctions the way he did, doesn't that really just tip -- isn't that the president tipping his hat to the fact that there are other nato members that don't want to move as quickly as perhaps some members in the house or the senate, but they want the sanctions in more of an integrated way? >> they do want the sanctions to be integrated. just a few hours ago, australia and a couple other countries, australia and japan, who are not formal members of nato, joined

in the sanctions. what president biden is trying to do, they impose their own sanctions on russia, as well. what president biden is trying to do is hit russia as hard as he can early, but he's still reserving a little bit. he's holding back a little bit for the rest of ukraine. the white house was hugely happy on monday night when germany came forward and olaf scholz said they were halting the nord stream pipeline. that was a direct message to vladimir putin. russia was hoping they could peel germany off. germany was the country that russia most thought they could drive a wedge between nato. the fact that was immediately taken off the table was very helpful to what president biden is trying to do. it's interesting that the "washington post" column that

you showed earlier, comments by lavrov and his concession, that, you know, it's best to negotiate with the united states. well, tony blinken, the secretary of state, has now canceled his talks with -- his scheduled talks with sergey lavrov because he doesn't want to be seen as negotiating while they're invading. there's a lot going on right now, but i think joe biden has played a not very good hand extraordinarily well. so far, he has done -- given the fact that ukraine is not considered to be america's, you know, national security interests, you shouldn't be able to get an american president willing to go to war over ukraine, and he's taken that off the table. but he has still managed to cobble together a pretty strong western response to this so far. >> michael, cutting russia off

from the western banking system is no small thing. uk and eu imposed sanctions. germany pulling back nord stream 2, the pipeline vladimir putin so badly wants. those are all important steps. >> yeah. >> he shrugged off sanctions in the past because his goals are so big. what do you make of the sanks, -- sanctions, and will it take more to deter him? >> it is a good start. two of the most hawkish people on sanctions are basically giving the thumbs up. that's a good sign for those of us who have been saying for many years, it's time to go after russian money. not just, by the way, their energy sector, banking sector, but the way they export their corruption all throughout europe. this phenomena -- i lived in the uk three years. russian oligarchs who own sports teams, newspapers, dirty rubles spoken from the russian people in the west. the way to hit vladimir putin himself, go after his money.

the most interesting thing that ever came out of sanctions with respect to the ukraine crisis was, i think it was the first sanction packet passed five months after the annexation of crimea. it said a swiss commodities trader, putin had direct access to cash, personal investments in this commodities trader which was held in reserve for him by an oligarch friend. we know he is vulnerable with respect to his personal fortune. why do we know that? look at his reaction to the panama papers in, what was that, 2016, i believe. within days, he called a meeting of the russian national security council, started making weird illusions to things that later came to light in hillary clinton and the democratic party emails that had been hacked. there's a very good case to be made that the reason that putin decided to interfere in our election in 2016 was he believes that this investigative expose that went after his money was a u.s. government, cia, state department conspiracy. he said as much in st.

petersburg that year. his money is the key here. >> all right. let's bring in our reporters. nbc news white house correspondent carol lee and senior international correspondent keir simmons, live from moscow. carol, this first round of sanctions out of the box, what's the most piercing among them, and what else does biden have as options moving forward? >> reporter: mika, the sanctions on the banks are among those that the administration thinks are the most piercing. also on russia's sovereign debt, it's another thing that they're pointing to. and what they did here is say that they're starting out with significant sanctions but left a hot of running room to ramp things up, so they could dial up sanctions on the banks. they still didn't implement those export controls that everyone has been talking about. that's something they've left on the table that they could dial up, as well. and they are saying that they are still leaving on the table the option to cut russia out of this swift banking system, which

would be significant. what they're trying to do here is balance a deterrence, a punishment for the steps that putin has taken so far, but make maintain some deterrence to try to stop him from going further. while doing that, the officials i talked to and the president essentially said this in his statement yesterday, they still expect russia to fully go forward with what the president called a massive military campaign against ukraine. while they're holding out some hope that if they leave these other sanctions on the table, they can punish putin further. if he goes further, escalate for escalate, they really don't think it is going to happen. in the meantime, there is pressure from congress and from ukraine, saying it is time to implement those tougher sanctions now. the white house's position, though, is we're not going to do that at this particular time. >> so, keir, give us, if you will, the mood in russia. we've read reports over the past several days that there's not

widespread support for this war of choice among rank and file citizens. yet, we also get reports of people on state television asking where the champagne is that they can pop, fireworks going off in moscow after president putin's speeches. what are you gleaning there from being on the ground in moscow? >> reporter: joe, actually talking about the fireworks, it's a holiday here in moscow to celebrate the military and president putin giving a robust speech overnight, celebrating the military as part of that holiday. i would describe the approach of the higher echelons, if you'd like, of the russian government society as bullish toward sanctions. so we heard president putin's spokesman yesterday asked about president biden's tv announcement of sanctions. he said, well, we didn't watch

it. in the past hour, the woman who runs russia today has tweeted, i have my tissues ready to cry when they sanction me. that's the overt attitude. we talked yesterday, joe, about the potential impact of sanctions. the fact, frankly, that president putin tried to build an economic fortress. we have to be realistic about the -- someone earlier said president biden doesn't have the best hand. i think that is the case. i think sanctions do have limited impact. let me give you an example of why that might be. naryshkin, the head of president putin's foreign intelligence service, the svr, there's a lot of talk continuing here in moscow of something that happened at the security council, where president putin -- keep in mind, naryshkin is inside putin's inner circle, one of the few seen to be around him who can advise him. on national tv, president putin interrupted naryshkin and dismissed him, dismissed him to

sit down again. that treatment of someone who is very senior and very close to him, i think, gives people an insight into president putin's approach to everyone. and speaking of president trump, one focus, of course, of the trump administration, which we haven't talked about enough, and that's china. what is china's attitude toward sanctions? we know china worries about sanctions. we know that they will be reluctant to have chinese banks do trade with russia and get caught up in those sanctions. we saw the chinese at the security council earlier this week call for restraint, say these things should be resolved by peaceful means. we do know also that in the past, china did not vote at the u.n. in favor of russia's annexation of crimea, trying to abstain. so i think it is very much worth keeping an eye on how china

navigates this current crisis and exactly how close is that relationship between russia and china i think that is going to be crucial. it also underscores, of course, that nothing is simple in international politics. >> well, keir, it has been fascinating over the past couple of days, that that relationship hasn't been quite as tight as vladimir putin would like with china's foreign minister actually saying that ukraine's territorial sovereignty needed to be respected. we're going to be going to beijing in a minute, but, keir, let me finish with you because you brought up that fascinating, some would say chilling, meeting that putin had with the head of his security, his spy chief. you had that open questioning of the invasion and the wisdom of the invasion. you also had sergey lavrov coming back to him, his foreign minister, saying the west is united. nato is united. we really don't have any other choice but to talk to washington here. not the sort of language for

those of us who followed sergey lavrov through the year, through the years. not the sort of pronouncements we're used to hearing from the very able, very tough foreign minister. >> reporter: that's true. you know, look, i think -- how can i put it? everyone under president putin is just constantly trying to figure out what president putin thinks. then toe the line, honestly. i think that's actually what you saw at the security council with naryshkin. he was trying to say the right thing and got slapped down, frankly. foreign minister lavrov isn't considered to be in the inner inner circle with president putin. quite often, you'll speak to russian officials and ask for a comment or an interview, and they'll say, "well, we want to wait to find out what the president has to say," which translates as, "we want to work out what the president thinks."

we talked about president putin being more isolated through the coronavirus. again, just to reiterate, we're not in the room, and they were very careful to keep secret and away from prying eyes the conversations they're having, but there is talk of a picture of president putin very much over the past few years, one commentator said he's had a lot of time with his own thoughts. president putin, someone who has been leading russia for decades, who really believes most of all in his own opinions. everyone else's opinion is interesting but not necessarily to be listened to. >> nbc's keir simmons, great points. we need to show that exchange a little later. carol lee, thank you, as well, for your reporting this morning. great to have you on. let's wrap up this block with pentagon correspondent for the "new york times," halleen cooper. final thoughts? >> i think we're just entering really uncharted territory at

this point. it's been fascinating to see how the world is reacting. i think mike mentioned a little earlier, you know, the fact there are these russian oligarchs who own sports teams in britain, for instance, who are worried and are going to be hurt, about the potential for being hurt. you have the potential right now, prodding the uefa champions league. to bring this back to how this affects ordinary people. uefa's champions league -- this is a very good football -- soccer, sorry, soccer game the world over. their final is supposed to be in st. petersburg. britain is prodding them to take it away from st. petersburg. i think it is going to be interesting to see the chain reaction. we're right now at the very open -- you know, we're at the mouth of the volcano, and i'm

really going to be interested to see whether the world, the western world, can actually harness enough of a bite with the repercussions that they make this felt throughout russia. people at the pentagon believe they can. they believe president putin is going to sorely regret what he is doing. every time you talk to pentagon leaders, they say, it is going to open a world of hurt for him. i'm curious to see how that plays out. >> michael, putin has crossed the line. he's done what a lot of people predicted he'd do. the west responded with its sanctions, as it said it would. does putin care about that criticism, about those things that helene was ticking off that may happen to him? does he care about the implications of this? what happens from here? >> i think he calculated or factored this into his planning, right? you heard about this naryshkin thing. to put this into perspective, naryshkin is responsible for foreign intelligence gathering. he will play a crucial role.

he already played a crucial role in shaping the landscape and informing the president of russia about ukrainian will to resist and all that. my suspicion is he told him, look, the ukraiians are putting up a fight. this is not a cakewalk. putin dressed him down in a savage manner. the equivalent of this is a slap with a fish on the eve of afghanistan. if i'm in the pentagon or u.s. intelligence, i'm looking, how do you exploit these fissures more? in many respects, putin is the man in the high castle. this is all down to him. the state is putin at this point. >> news director for new line's magazine, michael weis, great to have you in. thanks for being here. >> sure. how is china reacting? we'll have a live report from beijing. plus, former defense secretary leon panetta will join our conversation to weigh in on the biden administration's new

sanctions against russia and whether they are enough to deter vladimir putin. also ahead, trucker convoys like we've seen in canada could start to arrive in washington this week. how the pentagon and others are preparing for those possible protests. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. you're watching "morning joe." you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. then pso. even walking was tough. i had to do something. i started cosentyx®. cosentyx can help you move, look, and feel better... by treating the multiple symptoms of psoriatic arthritis. don't use if you're allergic to cosentyx. before starting...get checked for tuberculosis. an increased risk of infections some serious... and the lowered ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor about an infection or symptoms... or if you've had a vaccine or plan to. tell your doctor if your crohn's disease symptoms... develop or worsen. serious allergic reactions may occur. watch me. ask your rheumatologist about cosentyx. men put their skin through a lot. day-in, day-out that's why dove men body wash has skin-strengthening nutrients and moisturizers

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34 past the hour. beautiful shot of lower manhattan as the sun comes up over new york city. china is working a delicate balancing act between xi jinping's support of putin and their self-interest in the west. xi joined putin before the olympics this month, in calling on nato to curb expansion. they showed some unity there.

now, with the rising tensions on the russia-ukraine border, china has not outright endorsed putin's latest actions but is still recognizing moscow's security concerns. china's foreign minister said at a european security conference on saturday, quote, the sovereignty, independence, and territorial integrity of any country should be respected. adding, quote, we hope a solution can be found through dialogue and consultation that will really guarantee security and stability in europe. joining us now from beijing is nbc news foreign correspondent janis mackey frayer. >> thanks so much for being with us. it's been fascinating, reading between the lines over the past several days, whether at a u.n. security council meeting or in munich, the very muted support -- i don't know if it is support or criticism -- of beijing. there is no doubt, beijing's made the calculation that

western markets may be a bit more important to them right now than russia's $2 trillion economy. >> reporter: well, the crisis presents this diplomatic dilemma for beijing. there was the summit with vladimir putin and xi jinping standing side by side at the opening ceremony of the winter olympics. they had released this incredible joint statement that was more of a manifesto, where they were talking about no limits to their friendship. no forbidden areas of cooperation. it didn't name ukraine specifically, but for putin, this was open support from xi jinping. maybe not a formal pact, but certainly an alignment of common interests, as they call it. now, with what's been happening in ukraine, china is now in this very awkward position where it's having to decide its loyalties. it is walking this fine line

because there are high risks to the economy, including the very real possibility of u.s. sanctions extending to china if it is seen as backing putin. earlier today, i spoke with a think tanker here, adviser to the government, and he believes china is more interested in protecting what it has with the u.s. and with the eu, that it doesn't want to burn any bridges, so to speak. it has trade ties with ukraine. $15 billion in trade deals. there are also significant chinese investments there. remember back in 2013, china bought up 11,500 square miles of eastern ukraine to use as farmland. it owns farmland there the size of belgium. so there are very big stakes, as well, with 19 european nato countries signing on to xi's belt and road initiative. at this point, there is no

straight and unfettered line that goes from beijing to moscow. yes, the relationship has deepened with these two men since they've assumed power, but it's still a very complicated relationship between china and russia. >> for our viewers, simplifying it perhaps for china, the united states and the eu combined have $40 trillion economies. russia has a $2 trillion economy. i would guess with china struggling through covid, with their economy down compared to where it's been over the past five, ten years, the last thing they'd want to do is absorb another economic hit because of sanctions from the united states or the eu because of a land gap -- grab in ukraine. >> reporter: well, the leadership all but disappeared here for about a week, so there is, no doubt, rigorous debate going on about the long-term

costs of aligning with russia. there's no doubt some debate going on with washington on whether there is some sort of window for the u.s. to leverage the chinese position. not to expect beijing to break with moscow but certainly to, perhaps, nudge it toward reconsidering an alternate path if russia were to invade ukraine. >> nbc's janis mackey frayer in beijing, thank you so much for your insight this morning. coming up, we dive into the federal hate crimes convictions for the men who killed ahmaud arbery. why the verdicts are significant, even though the men were already facing life in prison for murder. msnbc legal analyst charles coleman joins us with more on that, next on "morning joe." that, next on "morning joe." before nexium 24hr, anna could only imagine a comfortable night's sleep

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i told the doj there was one thing they didn't have, they didn't have a son lying in a cold grave. and they still didn't hear my cry. >> i give all glory to god. we got justice for ahmaud. >> we got a victory today, but there's so many families out there today who don't get victories. >> the parents of ahmaud arbery reacting yesterday to a guilty verdict in the federal hate crimes trial for the three men who killed their son. a jury ruled against father and son, gregory and travis mcmichael, and their neighbor, william bryan, yesterday, one day before the second anniversary of arbery's killing. a judge rejected a plea deal from the mcmichaels on the hate crimes charges before the trial, after arbery's parents protested against it. they argued a deal would be disrespectful and allow the men

to serve their sentences in a federal prison instead of a state facility. the three georgia men were given life sentences earlier this year after chasing down arbery in their trucks and fatally shooting him in 2020. >> let's bring in civil rights attorney and msnbc legal analyst charles coleman. a lot of people looing at this would say, they already have life in prison. what is the importance of this conviction? give us insight on that. >> joe, the easiest way to explain this is the civil right dealt with the why and the criminal trial dealt with what. there was a need to establish on a criminal level whether the individuals were, in fact, guilty of what we now know was a modern day lynching with the killing of ahmaud arbery. the trial for hate crime was needed because there was not, at that time, a hate crime in the state of georgia, a hate crime statute. that did not exist. so the prosecution for the racial animus and for the reason and for the motive behind what

it was these men did needed to be done on a federal level. that's why christian clark and thedoj hate crime unit decided to pursue it and prosecute it on that level. we got a verdict yesterday. >> what is the purpose? i can certainly understand if there wasn't an underlying verdict and so you needed a hate crime conviction to pin something on people. what is -- what's the purpose of stacking hate crime conviction on top of an underlying conviction? >> well, joe, the biggest issue there is that we want to, supposedly as a society, discourage people from taking action that is racially motivated, that is motivated by someone's membership in a protected class. that is why hate crime statutes exist. it's to send the message to the public that it is bad enough when you commit a crime, but when you're motivated by racial animus or animus against a particular group or a person who

is a member of a particular group or protected class, that there are additional penalties that exist. so in this case, were it to be, for example, overturned or appealed, which i find to be very, very unlikely. if a criminal trial somehow was appealed and it was overturned, we know the federal case will still come in and they will be liable for that and be convicted on that and have to serve that time, as well. >> okay. on another topic for you, charles, brian flores says he left a lot of money on the table when he refused to sign a separation agreement in his dismissal by the dolphins last month that would have kept him from talking about his treatment in miami. here's what flores told bryant gumbel of hbo's "real sports," in his first interview since taking on a new role as an assistant with the pittsburgh steelers. >> i was surprised to learn that when you were let go by the dolphins, that you were asked to sign an nda, a non-disparagement agreement, and you declined.

>> yeah. i think just signing that, you know, separation agreement would have silenced me. >> how much money did you wind up leaving on the table by choosing to not sign that agreement? >> a lot. >> a good amount? >> a lot of money. >> there's millions of dollars. >> it was a contract. to coach flores' credit, you know, he wasn't going to sign that because he wanted -- it wasn't about the money. it was about the money, he would have signed it. what he did instead was he filed this lawsuit so that he could help other coaches now and in the future. >> so the dolphins responded to the comments yesterday evening, calling the claims categorically false. but attorneys for flores quickly disputed the team's denial, posting screenshots of what they said was the draft agreement and payment termination notice. flores is suing the nfl and three other of its teams over allegedly discriminatory hiring

practice. this is getting ugly. >> charles, what is the legal impact of this latest back and forth, this latest falling? >> in the court of public opinion, this is going to go very, very poorly for both the league and for miami. with respect to the legal implications here, you know, it's not uncommon that, in a separation agreement, a company or an employer will look to have a non-disparagement agreement oftentimes. i've negotiated them on behalf of employees separating from their employer. often, it is something both sides seek. in this case, brian flores was not interested in signing the nda. while the dolphins apparently were. from a credibility standpoint, it'd seek to bolster what flores is alleging, in terms of the different things that happened with him. it gives him the clear path to have a litigation that he has right now. were it for the nda, had he signed it, had he chosen to go

forward, he wouldn't have been able to bring in litigation. it may have been with the foresight of making that decision in advance, that he knew he'd pursue these claims and decided, i want no parts of this nda. >> charles coleman, thank you very much for being on this morning. still ahead, more on the impact that the crisis in ukraine is having on the economy here at home. we're going to talk to department u.s. treasury secretary about that and the sanctions being imposed against russia. "morning joe" is back in just a moment. joe" is back in just a moment

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the d.c. national guard will assist the metro and capitol police forces during their planned trucker protests this week in washington. defense secretary lloyd austin approved the request for approximately 400 national guardsmen to assist from this saturday through the state of the union, until march 7th.

d.c. mayor bowser's office wrote, quote, we appreciate the approval of our d.c. national guard traffic support request as we pull together the resources to support our public safety personnel. several trucker protests modelled after the recent canadian convoys are planning to travel to washington. >> i don't really understand, to be honest with you, as we look at this. i don't really understand what prime minister trudeau was doing. it seems they went out for the first several weeks, knocked on the windows and said, "what's this about?" seriously, it's just not that hard. you get police officers to go out, and they bang on the window. roll it down and say, "hey, you need to move this. if you don't move this, we're going to arrest you. we're going to charge your company, and we're going to impound your truck." that would happen in new york

city. that would happen in a lot of cities across the country. i'm not exactly sure why it didn't happen in canada. if you're an american mayor, if you're a conservative, again, if you are a conservative -- >> this is important. >> not a conservative that actually is supporting vladimir putin right now or a conservative who thinks put putn is brilliant or a conservative who doesn't care about the invasion of a sovereign country who we had a treaty with, not one of those conservatives. but if you're a conservative like me who really doesn't think streets should be blocked, so working americans and working canadians can't get to their jobs, the small business owners can't get to their work to open up their shops, if you actually believe in what conservatives used to call law and order,

let's just call it sanity, common decency, if you don't believe that, you're not conservative. when this comes to america, i hope the mayors -- you may not want to call yourself conservative, but i promise you, citizens in your community will thank you if you don't allow anarchy to break out in your streets the way it broke out in canada. and when -- you know, these people, and it's usually from the left, it has been in the past, protesters will go and march across the bridge. they'll stop traffic on a bridge. people can't get to their jobs or they can't get back at the end of the day, to get back to their kids. to let the babysitter study his or her homework. this is chaos. for some reason, you have

trumpists who support vladimir putin -- >> they're kind of fueling it. >> -- and invasions of countries and chaos in our street. this is what conservatives fought against in the 1960s and the 1970s. what the hell? i'll say it again. kevin williamson, read this article. i'm going to keep bringing kevin's name up until you read this article. how the trump right is having its hippie moment. and, no, that's not a compliment. >> they're not conservatives. they're confused. >> they're trumpists. >> so-called conservatives have reacted to the trucker protests that shut down canada's capital. their reaction to putin's invasion of ukraine. it is connected. matt lewis joins us to explain the twisted world view of the american right. and for what president biden has labeled the beginning of a

russian invasion of ukraine, we'll bring in retired army general barry mccaffrey. we're back in two minutes. o min.

all right. a live look at a dreary day starting out in washington, d.c. a live look at the white house. welcome back to "morning joe." it is wednesday, february 23rd. it's the top of the hour. with us, we have staff writer at the "atlantic" with us. senior columnist for the kbt daily beast, matt lewis. and mike barnicle is here. >> also, retired, four-star general barry mccaffrey. barry mccaffrey graduated from the u.s. military academy at west point, class of 1964. can we show general mccaffrey, please? class of 1964. his combat tours included action in the dr with 82nd airborne

division in 1965. he was stationed in vietnam a year later, where he would earn two distinguished service crosses. two silver stars. and three purple hearts. you'll remember that during operation desert storm, mccaffrey commanded the 24th infantry division. at the time of his retirement in 1996, mccaffrey was the youngest general in the army. general mccaffrey, i want to start by saying, god bless you for your service to the united states of america, for your service in wartime, and also for you being a champion of a strong america in peacetime. i bring all this up because you've been attacked by elitist, rich -- did he go to harvard in i don't know where he went. i think he went to an ivy league school, made a lot of money, and

is now attacking american war heros. i want to expand this out from you. you have this so-called right, the trump right, that are attacking american heros like you, that are attacking the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, that are praising vladimir putin. let's see here, pompeo calls putin elegantly sophisticated. donald trump said this is genius, the invasion. the person who attacked you, the republican, trump republican said, quote, i don't care about ukraine. we're hearing this time and time again from the so-called right. we used to call these people useful idiots on the right. what do you call them now? >> well, it is a shocking situation where you end up with more support out of president xi of china than you do from the domestic political opposition of

biden and his team. we're faing one of the greatest crises in national security of u.s. interests since world war ii. putin has done step one. battalion team, seized the separatist areas. that's not it. he's trying to reintegrate ukraine into mother russia. the next step, undoubtedly, will be to expand these areas, which will require confronting 250,000 ukrainian soldiers. we're on the verge of a massive, violent event in the heart of europe. billions of ref you dpu billions of ref you gees fleein the west. the biden team is doing a remarkable job in trying to unify nato and signal through economic tools, at a minimum, their opposition to national aggression. we need domestic support. it is really a shocking situation. >> let me ask anne applebaum the

same question. we're going to show you some other clips of trump-supporting republicans that continue to praise vladimir putin. trump secretary of state, mike pompeo, said he was elegantly sophisticated. donald trump said of the invasion of ukraine, this is genius. you have fox news personalities that are bashing american generals and saying the u.s. military is going to bring helicopters over from afghanistan to attack americans. you have republican political candidates who were attacking an american hero like general mccaffrey. you have other people who are attacking, constantly, our chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, another american military hero. what's going on here, anne? >> so these aren't conservatives anymore, and that's really the wrong term for them.

a part of what used to be the conservative movement in america is now radical. it's aggressive. it seeks violence. i'm afraid to say that it is also, ironic as it sounds, has become anti-american. it doesn't like america as it is. it doesn't respect american institutions. it's now seeking radical, violent change. the admiration for putin's russia, which is a violent, brutal autocracy, and hungary, a more sophisticated but repressive society, these are signs that a part of what used to be the republican party, a part of what used to be the conservative movement, now admires autocracy more than democracy, and that sets them themselves 250 years of american tradition. >> let's look at this disturbing trend unfolding right now, where some of these far-right, on the far-right, are opening siding

with president putin. it's not just back benches in congress or radio shock jocks. it is the former president and his secretary of state. here's mike pompeo late last week, followed by donald trump's comments last night on fox. >> very shrewd. very capable. i have enormous respect for him. i've been criticized for saying that. i have enormous respect for him. he was also an interlocketer that was always well-informed and deeply clear about what russian interests were. i appreciated that. it required the same from us, from me, from my team. we had to be equally prepared and equally protected by the interests that mattered to the united states. he is very savvy, very shrewd. when i think about some of the things they do in the diplomatic space, some of the things they do in this space where they go

off people, i think that's counterproductive. i shared that with him directly. i said, "you're trying to find a way to connect with us. those things make it hard for western leaders to engage with you because it lights up the human rights issues and the like. there's not much game in it." he would smile at me with a look that reminded me it's a tough world out there. no, i consider him an elegantly sophisticated counterpart, and one who is not reckless but has always done the math. we may disagree with his priorities, may disagree with his math, we certainly disagree that the interests he seeks are reasonable for his country, in many cases, but we should never underestimate that he is doing this in a way where he is exhibiting his capacity to control and his deep desire that he is most important objective.

the most important objective is that he continues to run the deal, first and foremost. he is about power for himself, making sure his place as the leader of russia continues. >> i went in yesterday and there was a television screen, and i said, "this is genius." putin declares a big portion of the ukraine, of ukraine, putin declares it as independent. oh, that's wonderful. so putin is now saying it is independent, a large section of ukraine. i said, how smart is that? he's going to go in and be a peacekeeper. that's the strongest peace force i've ever seen. there were more army tanks than i've ever seen. they'll keep peace already. this is a guy that says, "you know, i'm going to declare a pig -- big portion of ukraine independent." he used the word "independent." we're going to go out and go in and help keep peace. you have to say, that's pretty savvy. >> that was not from fox news. that was from a radio show.

>> yeah. >> anne applebaum, i want to underline this because you've got donald trump talking about, again, how brilliant vladimir putin was, his invasion, and admiring what putin is doing here by lying about calling his troops peacekeepers. we also remember he gave xi the sign off on concentration camps for uighurs, said that sounded good. you have pompeo, again, enormous respect. it is not just here. you have donald trump talking about love letters to the north korean dictator. when he brought that up in a speech with bill o'reilly, you actually had people in the audience cheering. these are the very people, these are the very tyrants that ronald reagan, margaret thatcher, jean kirkpatrick, the big brzezinski, pope john paul ii spent their lives working against, pushing

back against in the name of freedom. again, forget this is from a group of people who used to be conservatives. this is just not talk we're used to hearing in the united states of america. >> no. as i said, this group of people represents a real break with american tradition, both american conservative tradition and american traditions of rule of law and respect for rights more broadly. we have a constitution that enshrines the idea of rule of law. that you don't -- that you -- you know, when you come to power, you obey the rules. this is a group of people who have now come to admire political leaders who obey no rules and who murder their opponents wherever they may be and whatever country. who defy borders and their own laws. you have to look back to maybe some of the most radical, most violent '60s radicals.

you have to look back to the era of the civil war in order to find comparable echoes in american history. it is something new and quite dangerous. >> general mccaffrey, as you sit here, i'm wondering what you're thinking about all of this, what you're seeing and what you just heard. not about the field of battle in which you are, sadly, too familiar with over the course of your marvelous career, but the intelligence of what we're looking at. secretary pompeo, who was formerly head of the cia, former president donald trump speaking about russia and about putin as if they are admirable figures. my question to you is, if part of this battle is perhaps strengthens or, in our case, losing democracy among western democracies, is not putin winning at this stage, given the allies he has and people like pompeo and trump? >> well, he may be winning

inside the u.s., but that's hardly the case in europe. look, this is the world turned upside down. there is no question about nat extend article v protection to, are apprehension about the next steps. putin has invaded georgia, seized crimea, invaded eastern ukraine, fought and attacked u.s. troops in syria, killed his opponents domestically and abroad. these are dangerous people. so poland and romania and the baltic states and europe are looking with apprehension. they remember the devastation of combat from the nazi regime in the '40s. they're looking at russia now, rearmed with strategic threats from nuclear weapons. the end of the day, the only thing the russians have that anybody cares about are nuclear weapons and oil and gas. we're trying to unite nato to

deter further violence. we have a visible -- 60% of the russian armed forces are parked around ukraine. they're probably a three-day attack from encircling the capital of kyiv, which i've been in and out of over the years. we're in great danger. we need to speak with one voice. right now, we've got former president trump and my fellow west pointer mike pompeo being played on russian tv as supportive of this political genius putin, who is a murderous thug, essentially. >> this is a time when truths and our american values really need to be a common theme and, yet, matt lewis, your latest piece for the "daily beast" is entitled "twisted: conservatives feel trudeau is more evil than putin." you write, if you want to understand someone's values or world view, take a look at who

and what provokes outrage and who and what evokes sympathy. the two dominant news stories right now, russia menacing ukraine, and the canadian trucker protest, compare and contrast people's comments. if you find something willing to defend vladimir putin for threatening to kill his neighbors, while simultaneously calling justin trudeau a dictator for shutting down a lawless protest after three weeks, you have found someone who is either intellectually dishonest or has a warped sense of reality. if you thought the gaslighting would end with trump, you were wrong. the american right is getting in the habit of calling evil good and good evil. it's a truly twisted and perverse perception of a dangerous world. the scary thing is it is catching on. >> it is grotesque. you just wonder where the principles are in this.

why they aren't taking control of people in their party, on the networks. you have people who are praising vladimir putin and saying it doesn't matter if ukraine is invaded or not, in the most good addy invasion likely since 1945. so, matt, we talked about this before. about our former republican party, at least in the house. obviously, there are senators who have been shoulder to shoulder with democrats, trying to push back against putin. let's be very clear there. but we have radicals. we have people who are attacking western style democracy. it's not just trudeau. remember, who did donald trump always blast? it wasn't orban. he loved orban. he would blast theresa may.

he would blast angela merkel, macron. it was always those who were elected in western style democracies. it was the autocrats, the tyrants, the dictators that he was writing love letters to. talk about how twisted the ukraine crisis and this canadian trucker chaos, how this really clarifies where so many on the trump right are. >> yeah. look, joe, i think that we've known for a while that things are really inverted. i mean, maybe we don't call them conservatives today, but a not insignificant portion of the right today believe in things the exact opposite of the things that conservatives believes in not that long ago. i mean, whether it's, you know, standing up to russia, certainly when they try to invade a sovereign country, whether it's not allowing protesters to shut

down traffic. you know, we could go on and on with, you know, tariffs or whatever. there's so many examples of the things that i grew up as a conservative believing, that now people who are my bretheren who are on the other side now. the blame america first route is really on the right, certain hi certainly as much as it is on the left. i felt that the -- when we juxtapose what's happening in canada with the truckers protest, with what's happening in ukraine, it is a microcosm of this problem. you have people on the right -- again, these are not fringe people. these are prominent commentators and even politicians in some cases on the right who are calling justin trudeau, who allowed this protest to go on for, like, three weeks before he finally -- >> way too long. >> -- shut it down.

>> too long. >> they're calling him a dictator and authoritarian. meanwhile, they completely turn a blind eye to vladimir putin. not only that, but they defend him. i mean, if you listen to what -- you played the pompeo clip a few minutes ago. if you could imagine that being said about hitler or stalin. well, he's a pretty -- i mean, hitler is a charismatic guy. he's a vegetarian. he's doing the same thing we would be. i mean, they are providing aid and comfort, certainly intellectually so, to our -- to what i think are going from adversaries to enemies, certainly enemies of liberal democracy. >> yeah. >> terrible. >> that's why they're playing all of these people on russian state television right now, mika. to prop up support for vladimir putin's invasion of ukraine. everyone, stay with us. there's much more to discuss with this amazing panel. also, what impact will

biden's sanctions have on the russian economy? we're going to talk to the u.s. treasury department's number two official about that. plus, former defense secretary leon panetta will be our guest. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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live look at the white house. 24 past the hour. let's get more information on the new sanctions president joe biden imposed yesterday on russia. the sanctions target large russian financial institutions and moscow's sovereign debt, cutting off the country from western financing. they also focus on five wealthy russian elites and their family members, but do not go after putin directly. the european union also imposed new sanctions that will blacklist russian lawmakers and

target imports and exports. the eu said the target financial institutions are designed to hurt. joining us now, deputy secretary of the treasury, wally adeyemo. i'm curious how these sanctions impact the russian banks, russian officials. what is the hurt being imposed on them and also the impact on the u.s. economy that we should expect? >> thanks for having me this morning. yesterday, the sanctions that we imposed were significant actions that had an impact on russia in multiple ways. the banks we went after, one of them was critical to vladimir putin's ability to project power within russia. it is money the kremlin uses to pay for things within the country. the second bank was critical to their defense industry and their ability to project power outside of russia. we've cut those banks off from the u.s. financial system.

today, their assets are frozen because of the actions we took. in addition to taking that step, we cut off russian elites. these elites are close to the kremlin and close to putin. the reality is that vladimir putin gains a great deal of his wealth by taking money from these elites and the russian economy. by cutting off these economies and their children, we cut off the ability for vladimir putin to use their resources to further his lifestyle. finally, the action we took to cut off sovereign debt means that, over time, russia's economy will be starved of the resources they need to project power within the region and around the world. one of the most important things we did was we didn't do this alone. we did it with our allies and partners around the world, which meant that russia was cut off from a number of western financial institutions. europe makes up 40% of russia's trade, so being cut off from europe will mean their economy will grow slowly over time. you asked about the impact here in the united states and what the president has told us is to take actions that will severely impact the russian economy and

to mitigate the impact on the u.s. and europe, which we have done. but there will be costs. our goal will to be make sure we mitigate those costs over time. >> mr. secretary, on the last point that you made about the private individuals and sanctions who are close to vladimir putin, as you know, places like london and manhattan are full with russian money. full with russian money. what is the degree of difficulty in imposing sanctions on private citizens, basically private citizens, in places like london and manhattan, in miami, places throughout the world where money is parked? how do we penalize them, and can we? >> yes, we can penalize them. what we learned is while we'll usually go after the named individual and sanction them, what they've done previously is they've given money to their family members and known associates. what one of the things we did

yesterday is in addition to going after the namd individuals, we also went after their children. we'll target the individuals around them to ensure the money they're sending to places like london and new york through those individuals can no loner flow. we constrict the ability of the money to flow back to president putin. >> deputy secretary of the treasury, wally adeyemo, thank you very much for being on the show this morning. joe? anne applebaum, let's talk about nato for a minute. we'd shown earlier this morning house republicans attacking joe biden for being weak when, in fact, we've put together a nato alliance. the president and our allies have come together in a way we haven't in quite some time. so much so that lavrov is telling putin that they need to negotiate with washington because the west is unified. i'm wondering, what is your take

on nato's response to this? has it been united? has it been strong? are you surprised that nato has come together as much as it has? >> given how badly nato morale was damaged by the trump administration, and given how angry so many american allies were at the united states and the u.s. president, i think biden has done very well to bring people together, to get an agreed on sanctions package. it hasn't been said yet this morning on your program, but one of the most important sanctions is the germans will now not open a pipeline that was built for billions of dollars from germany to russia over the past several years. all of that, putting that together is evidence the biden administration has been doing a lot of great diplomacy. the question is, can these sanctions work long term? can we make sure people don't evade them the way they were able to do before, using, as the deputy secretary said, friends

and relatives and cousins. if we're able to keep up on top of that, they may have more impact than in the past. >> general mccaffrey, i'm curious, getting back to the sanctions, do you think the sanctions are strong enough as the president outlined yesterday? do we need to go further? do we need to actually wait and see how putin's future actions unfold first? >> you know, i have a lot of experience trying to use economic sanctions to change some adversary state's foreign policy. normally, it doesn't work very well. you end up affecting the general economy, but the elites still have large screen tvs, et cetera. probably within a year, we could substantially harm the russian economy if the europeans stay with us. but, you know, the european foreign minister couldn't bring

himself to say this was an invasion. he'd say, no, foreign troops on ukrainian soil, yes, but it is not an invasion. germany has only temporarily paused nord stream 2. so the question will be, can the united states go after russian oil, energy supplies, by ramping up u.s. domestic production, saudi arabia production, to get foreign oil? putin is hitting on that. it is a long, difficult winter in europe. to be frank, the president has brought together nato in a manner we haven't seen in 20 years. they're scared, and they ought to be. >> retired four-star army general barry mccaffrey, thank you for being with us this morning. more importantly, thank you so much -- >> very much.

>> -- for your service to this country and to freedom. we appreciate it. >> staff writer at the "atlantic," anne applebaum, thank you for being on, as well, for your insight. from y2k to "survivor" to the bush-gore contest, a lot happened in 2000. our next guest called it the year that broke america. that's ahead on "morning joe." e. e. that's ahead on "morning joe." ♪ "how bizarre" by omc ♪ no annual fee on any discover card. ♪ ♪

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would allow the season to start as scheduled on march 31st. i guess, mike, the one positive you can say about the past couple days is that the two sides, instead of talking at each other, restating their positions, seem to be finally getting under the hood and trying to figure out what a deal might look like. what are you hearing on the inside? >> well, i mean, joe, to your point that you raised, 84 days until the work stoppage. 84 days. they just began really talking substantively, both sides, four days ago. they wasted 80 days. they've not yet even addressed the critical components of the game in terms of the fan, the pace of play of the games, revising instant replaywatching there four, five minutes to see if someone is safe or out at second. the start time of games. are you starting at 7:15, 7:30, or sensibly at 6:00 or 6:30 so you can take your child to a game on a school night.

stuff like that. at least they're talking, that's what i'm hearing. both sides are really dug in. i think, maybe, mlb, the players association are a little less dug in than some of the owners are. the players, most of them, i think, want to play. it looks right now, unless they get a deal done by the end of this week, opening day is not going to be march 31 st. probably april 15th, given the need for spring training and everything like that. the disgrace is, again to your point, 84 days ago, the work stoppage began. they just really started talking together in jupiter, florida, four days ago. >> yeah. you know, the billionaires need to start giving a little bit since the millionaires and some kids who aren't millionaires are trying to find a path. let's hope it happens. mike, how does this work, if they go ahead and come up with a

deal by the owners deadline for the march 31st start for the regular season, what is spring training looking like? obviously, there are a lot of towns across florida, and small businesses across arizona that have been absolutely devastated by missing spring training over the past couple of years because of covid. a third year of a truncated or completely wiped out spring training would just destroy a lot of these towns and a lot of these small businesses. if a deal is struck so they can begin regular season by march 31st, what does spring training look like? do we still have it? >> yeah, you'll still have it. it'll probably be three weeks long, which will mean that once the season starts, you'll have a series of games for about two or three weeks, maybe a month, where the pitchers go no longer than three or four innings because they won't have their arm strength the way you would with a normal spring training. but there would be a spring training. again, the larger point you

raised, the number of people, largely senior citizens, who depend on the income they get from working for clubs during the course of a six or seven-week spring training, that's been done. small businesses around ballparks, close to ballparks, they've been diminished, badly hurt, and they've been hurt for two years in a row now. it is a tough situation. also in the sports world, the big news we brought you yesterday morning, that after unprecedented success on the global stage, a six-year battle for equal pay has finally come to an end with a landmark settlement. players on the u.s. women's national soccer team say the federation will pay $22 million to the athletes, plus another $2 million for post-year goals. nbc news correspondent emily akeda has the details. >> reporter: u.s. soccer stepping up to close the gender pay gap after years of legal

pressure from u.s. women's soccer players. >> it is really what we set out to do, equalize on all fronts. >> reporter: in a landmark agreement, u.s. soccer pledging to pay the women's and men's team an equal rate, while handing over $22 million to athletes in backpay and another in $2 million for post-career endeavors and charitable efforts. the deal settling 28 players' gender discrimination lawsuit, as long as the team's next contract is ratified. >> we not only right the wrongs of the past but set the next generation up for something that we can only have dreamed of. >> reporter: the gender wage gap, a point of contention across the country, where the average woman ends 82 cents for every dollar a man makes. the difference larger in sports. male athletes are paid from 15% to 100% more than their female counterparts. the players and federation admit getting to this day has not been easy. megan rapinoe amongst the first to file a complaint in 2016. efforts escalated after winning their fourth world cup three years later, filing a lawsuit. >> tv ratings are there. the revenue is there. the support is there.

what more do you want from us? >> reporter: a judge largely dismissed that suit. today, a game-changing agreement athletes are deeming a "w." >> how momentous of a win is this? >> it is big. this fight has the potential to translate into other areas and to help us build momentum elsewhere. >> all right. up next, 2020 was a tough year, but our next guest says it was the year 2000 that broke america. he'll explain. plus, former defense secretary and cia director leon panetta joins us to discuss the latest on the crisis in ukraine and his thoughts on whether the west is doing enough to deter vladimir putin from pushing further into ukraine. we'll be right back. ♪ if i go crazy will you still call me superman ♪ still call me

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i made my decision. i'm not going to be running. the party is, as you know, self-destructing. jesse has left, and that's a problem. so i will not be running. >> the plane slams into a hotel on the edge of the airport. all 109 on board killed instantly. four others inside the hotel also killed. >> gonzalez, the 6-year-old cuban boy at the center of a dramatic tug-of-war is in the custody of his father tonight. armed federal marshals took the boy by force from his miami relatives home in a surprise, pre-dawn raid. outrage from the cuban-american community. >> bush versus gore. the case will decide the next president. >> wow. that was just a small sample of some of the major political and culture-shifting events of the year 2000. those and more are the focus of

a new book entitled "the year that broke america." joining us is the book's author, contributing editor at "new york" magazine, andrew rice. congratulations on the book, andrew. i can't believe all the different, major events that transpired in that year. but i would think most prominently in my mind is the battle for the white house the year 2000. can you tell us how that impacted the breaking of america, if you think it did? >> well, i think, you know, "the year that broke america" is a book about 2000 and also how we got to where we are today as a nation. i think that, you know, when we're talking about bush v gore, the election that year, it was really -- you can see the seeds of our present day political polarization coming to the floor in that battle for the presidency. you know, we think of 2020 as

this, you know, incredibly unprecedented event in american history, but it is really one of several times in american history where we've had fights for the presidency that somehow seemed to go beyond the bounds of the imaginable or the previously imaginable. 2000 was the first time that that really happened in recent american history. it was -- i trace the breakdown of trust in american institutions and all sorts of other sort of societal factors that we see now to that year. >> and the beginning of the putin reign. the day before the year 2000 began, vladimir putin came to power. >> yes. i mean, one of the remarkable historical kind of eerie coincidences is if you go back and look at the coverage of the millennium celebrations, december 31st, 1999, you know, that news shares the front page

of the shocking resignation of boris yeltsin in russia and an unknown former kgb operative, vladimir putin, taking power. initially, he was said to be a president. and, of course, he proved to be much, much more than a caretaker. i think that's part of a broader theme of this book, which is that people in 2000 thought it was going to be this significant year because it was the beginning of a new millennium. this time of optimism, prosperity. america's government was running a several trillion dollar surplus, geopolitical dominance was unrivalled and its military was largely sort of a useless appendage. the seeds of the future were being sown. >> you know, andrew, it's shocking in retrospect to think about all the things we take for

granted today that did not even exist in the year 2000, from iphones to twitter to the expanse of the wide world of the web, the internet and everything that that provides us. but i'm wondering what you think about the culture we have today and the idea that some of it, some of our difficulties began in the year 2000, leading up to 2016 and the creation of a toxic political culture that is slowly eating away at the core of our democracy. >> well, i mean, i think that, you know, one of the things that's very significant, you showed a little clip at the beginning of this segment. you know, a lot of people don't know that donald trump ran for president one time before 2016. he ran in 2000 briefly to be the candidate of the third party reform party, which was the third party on the ballot that year. very significantly he mounted a very similar campaign in many

ways to the one that he mounted in 2016. you know, he attacked his rivals, ironically he attacked pat buchanan, his principal rival from the left, calling pat buchanan a hippie lover. he wasn't able to get traction. he was widely ridiculed. he was a big joke. he went on jay leno and they played "hail to the chief" as if it was a big gag. the only person who didn't take it seriously was trump himself. he didn't have a platform. he literally -- he didn't have an idealogical platform. we see that again today. doesn't have a platform. he's been kicked off twitter and is trying to figure out ways to communicate with his public, which is why the whole launch of this new media company that he's trying to do, truth social, is

actually quite significant, i think, in terms of his future political ambitions. what we've learned is that if you deprive donald trump of attention and oxygen, he starts to wither away. that was something we first learned in the year 2000. that's a major subplot of the year that broke america. >> the runup to 9/11. in 2001 we had the 9/11 pilots taking flight school in florida. >> well, this was sort of the core irony of the book that i explore. you know, i think that one of the things that, you know, i want to get across is, the book is -- there's a lot of fun stuff in the book. the year 2000 was a time of kind of prosperity and lightness and a lot of -- a lot of people were having a lot of fun during that

time period. reality television was coming into the fore. meanwhile, above it all, serenely flying over the state of florida, were the 9/11 pilots. they were here, living among us in the united states, in the state of florida during the year 2000, learning how to fly. in fact, i actually learn how to fly myself in the course of doing this book. i went -- i talked with many of their former classmates and some of their former instructors and even went on a flight lesson over the gulf coast myself just to get their perspective of how those individuals saw the united states and saw the state of florida literally from the air during that year when they were, you know, plotting to do the unimaginable. >> the new book is "the year that broke america." andrew rice, thank you very much for coming on the show. congratulations on the book. one headline on the

coronavirus to tell you about. the number of new reported covid-19 cases around the world has fallen 21% in the last week, according to the world health organization. covid-caused deaths also fell about 8% worldwide. the first time weekly deaths have fallen since january. the announcement yesterday marks the third consecutive week cases have dropped. the health agency says omicron cases, omicron remains the overwhelmingly dominant variant worldwide, but noted a booster shot of the vaccine substantially improves protection. still ahead, belarus says some 30,000 russian troops will remain in the country indefinitely after the end of joint military drills. we'll hear from the exiled belarusian opposition leader who says the move surrenders the country's independence to moscow without a shot being fired.

plus, u.s. defense secretary -- former u.s. defense secretary leon panetta is standing by. he joins us next on "morning joe." joins us next on "morning joe.

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there's still time to avert the worst case scenario. the united states and our allies and partners remain open to diplomacy if it is serious. >> president biden is calling russia's actions in ukraine, quote, the beginning of an invasion. this morning there are growing fears in that country over whether russian president vladimir putin intends to deploy troops beyond the pro-russian territories he already controls. it comes as world leaders hit back with new punishing

sanctions. nbc's keir simmons has more on that but first richard engel from the latest on the ground. >> reporter: this is what it's like to live at a ukrainian village next to separatist areas backed by russia. the ukrainian interior ministry says separatist fire killed at least one man here. the separatists have dramatically increased their attacks over the last several days. goading the ukrainian military to fire back, now that they're protected by russian president vladimir putin and the 150,000-plus troops he has near the border. armored vehicles without markings were seen on the move in the pro-russian enclave after putin observed their independence. russia already has thousands of troops there. nato says more russian forces have arrived. but putin is now signaling he's interested in more than just

territory russia already controlled. on russian television, putin said he recognized the independence of areas firmly held by the ukrainian government, including a major somewhat rusting industrial city of 450,000, mariopol. protesters in the city gathered to support their government and denounce putin. do you think he's going to stop? >> i think he wants to keep going. >> reporter: if he does keep going, what does that mean for you, for the people here? >> it means that -- it doesn't mean it's a time of peace. it means that it's a time of sadness, it's a time of war, of death. >> reporter: living in a nation putin says doesn't and shouldn't exist. the world again left wondering what vladimir putin has planned. we know what he thinks. on television again saying

ukraine could end the crisis by renouncing its ambitions to join nato. and his hour-long unscripted appearance, a more extreme echo of speeches he has made for 15 years. railing against nato in a famous 2007 speech, stunning western leaders. just this past july, writing russians and ukrainians were one people, a single whole. >> he's been in power for 22 years, so he doesn't think that anybody has any advice to give him anymore. >> reporter: and we know what he's capable of. with thousands of russian troops on ukraine's border, russia's lawmakers approving the use of force. president putin so far apparently undeterred by threats of sanctions and dismissing criticisms, including in our interview last year. do you worry that your opposition to nato actually

strengthened it? for six years nato has spent more on defense. >> he's gone to what are four times. chechnya, 2009. georgia, 2010. uk, syria, 2015. in every single war, he's won. and that makes him more dangerous. i think he thinks he can win again. >> let's bring in right now former defense secretary and cia director leon panetta. mr. secretary, what do you consider to be at stake in this ukrainian standoff? >> i think what's at stake is whether we've learned the lessons from world war ii, that we can't allow a tyrant to invade a sovereign democracy and get away with it. that's the most important lesson we've got to learn at this moment of crisis. >> mr. secretary, former russian

ambassador, ambassador to russia, michael mcfaul said we americans continue to try to project our values on putin and russia, but what we don't understand is, unlike americans who detest war, who have a sort of isolationist streak deeply embedded in their character, putin actually likes going to war. it's usually a good policy move for him and we should always keep that in mind. what are your thoughts about ambassador mcfaul's views of putin? >> i think he's right in the sense that putin, his whole history is using military to get his way. that's what tyrants do, that's what bullies do. he uses it obviously because he

thinks it's not only good for him in power and also it's good politics in russia. on the other hand, i've always felt very strongly that the american people, as much as we detest war, recognize that we cannot allow a bully and a tyrant to be able to suddenly take over sovereign democracies. that was the lesson that came out of world war ii. if you don't stop a tyrant now, that ultimately you will have to face him later. >> and history seems to be rhyming, if you look at the two territories that he's claimed as his own. it sounds an awful lot like germany and the sedatin land. i do wonder, joe biden has said, understandably, that we can't introduce american troops into

ukraine because that could trigger world war iii. do you agree with that assessment? if you do agree, what's the next best thing? >> i think -- i think it is obvious that we stand with nato. that ukraine is not a part of ukraine at this point. and i think for us to deploy our forces into ukraine would put us in direct conflict with russia and probably be the beginning of world war iii. having said the that, i do believe that it is critical for the united states and our allies to be unified in saying that we are not only going to impact and force russia to pay a price if they invade the ukraine, but that we will reinforce nato's positions to make clear that we are willing to go to war if he

tries to invade a nato country. >> mr. secretary, you use the word tyrant for vladimir putin. i would add not just a tyrant, but he's emboldened at this point, and he's been propped up by our own former president. and you had said earlier in this interview that we can't let him get away with it. how far should the united states go to meet that? >> i think it's important that the president and our allies stay unified and stay strong and tough at this moment in time. i think it is important to apply these sanctions. they should be tough and crippling sanctions that we apply against russia to make clear that we can make them pay a price for this aggression. number two, that we provide

military aid, continue to provide military aid to ukraine so that they can defend themselves as best as possible during this crisis. thirdly, that we reinforce our nato positions with u.s. troops. to make clear to russia that we are not going to continue to allow them to invade democracies in the world. >> have president biden's sanctions gone far enough? are there more sanctions you would like to see him implement at this point? >> well, my sense is that this is the first trough of sanctions being applied. there are tougher and stronger sanctions that can also be applied. i think it probably makes some sense to see what putin's next steps are, but i do believe that ultimately we are going to have to apply some very tough and crippling sanctions against russia so they understand that when we say he will pay a price,

he will pay a price. >> mr. secretary, former secretary of state mike pompeo has called and former director of the cia, your old chair, has called president putin savvy, skillful. donald trump has called him a genius. you just called him a tyrant and a bully. i'm wondering from your old seat in langley, a psychological profile that would be prepared on vladimir putin. what would be the descriptions given to you then about vladimir putin? >> well, as former cia director, we had some very clear profiles on putin that started with kgb, kgb, kgb. that was his background. that's what he's about, is the

exercise of power. and he is somebody who really believes that russia has the right to not only expand its borders and to kind of re-establish the old former soviet union. but he's somebody who has spent his life trying to undermine the united states of america. for those that would praise putin, they need to know that putin's first priority is to undermine the united states of america, to weaken us, and to do everything possible to try to cripple our democracy. that's what putin is about. >> mr. secretary, david ignatius writes in "the washington post" that he saw some surprising cracks appearing in the kremlin's support for putin on ukraine.

and david writes this about a staged meeting putin held with his top officials earlier this week. putin asked each of his ministers for their recommendation about recognizing donetsk and luhansk. the big surprise came when putin quizzed sergei naryshkin, the head of svr. he advised threaten to recognize donetsk and luhansk would be useful leverage for implementing the 2015 minsk agreementings to settle the conflict in the eastern region. in response, putin got antsy. what followed was a rare kremlin moment. speak clearly, do you support recognition, demanded putin, i will, answered his spy chief. you will or do you, demanded putin? when naryshkin waffled and said

he would support, putin shot back, that's not what we're discussing. do you recognize independence? to which the vexed spymaster answered, yes. putin is very far out on a limb with the huge invasion force he has assembled, poised for action. he runs a one-man show in moscow. in the ukraine confrontation, anything can happen, but that limb has never looked shakier than it did on monday. so, the support within the ranks, i mean, does it matter if it's not there, mr. secretary? >> it sure as hell matters in russia. when you have somebody who's willing to stand up and make the points that were made at that meeting. it indicates that there are those in russia that understand the risks involved with russia

invaing ukraine. and i believe that in the end, there are russians who understand that they are going to pay a very heavy price for what putin is trying to do. this is all about putin. this is his decision. this is about his power game. and russians understand that ultimately it is they who will pay a price, not only in terms of the impact it will have on russia, but in terms of lost russian lives on the battlefield. for that reason, i believe there probably is an element of dissent in russia that is not supportive of going to war. >> mr. secretary, we've seen over the past several weeks president biden and nato allies

lining up, shoulder to shoulder in a way they have not in quite some time. i'm curious what your thoughts are about the strength of the nato alliance and what you've seen over the past several weeks? does that hearten you that, perhaps, we are once again shoulder to shoulder with our closest allies? >> i think it's absolutely critical. look, we are at a dangerous point in the 21st century, but it also happens to be a very pivotal point in terms of determining what happens in the 21st century as far as this conflict between democracy and autocracy. if the united states and our allies can represent a strong and unified force, that can confront this kind of

aggression, by a tyrant like putin, it sends a message to china and taiwan, it sends a message to north korea, and it sends a message to iran that the democracies of the world will, indeed, confront aggression in the 21st century. this is a very pivotal moment for the united states and the world. >> former secretary of defense, leon panetta. thank you very much for your insights this morning. we appreciate it. now to our next guest. back in 2020, svetlana was thrust onto the world stage when her husband was arrested as he campaigned to run against

belarusian president alexander lukashenko. they went on to stage the biggest protest against lukashenko. she took her husband's place on the ballot, the mother of two, and she took his place and galvanized her fellow citizens who overwhelmingly took her side against the regime. but shortly after the election, lukashenko declared himself the winner and detained svetlana, which sparked mass protests in the streets of belarus. ultimately, she was forced to leave her homeland while last year her husband was sentenced to 18 years in prison after a closed door trial. she continues to fight for its homeland, outside its borders, and it mirrors the deteriorating

events in ukraine. she said the only difference in ukraine, the state is opposing the occupation. in belarus, it embraces it. and the belarusian opposition leader joins us now. it's great to have you on the show. i would like to ask you right out of the box here, first of all, what your thoughts are continuing to what i already said, what your thoughts are on what happens right now in uk and what you hope the world community will do in response. >> first of all, i'm here to say that some people don't want to oppose ukraine. they have always lived in peace and our people are not afraid to be threat to ukrainian country. but, of course, we see that lukashenko, because he lost the

trust of those people, he is illegitimate in the eyes of the countries is very bleak and his weakness is used by the president of russia. they put russian troops in belarus and their presence created direct threat not only to ukraine but primarily to our serenity. today not only our democracy and security but our independence is at stake. therefore, we ask the international community to stand for belarus these days and clearly state that attempts to undermine independence will not be tolerated. >> russian troops were due to leave belarus on sunday. but the country's defense minister announced 30,000 russian soldiers would remain indefinitely. what is your response to that.

>> the manipulate be center of foreign affairs said they believed soldiers would leave belarus the next day, and i have to communicate with kremlin and then rebuild the site. it seems that he doesn't control the situation and he lost -- you know, he lost this opportunity to make decisions by himself. >> are you in any contact with your husband? and what kind of support are you getting from around the world? >> in belarus, relatives can communicate with their imprisoned beloved only through lawyers. it's very limited information about state of health, about necessary things they need.

no intimacy between -- communication between lawyers and prisoners. so they're in prison very tough attitude to political prisoners is much worse than to ordinary crimes, towards criminals. and in this difficult situation, we are asking for solidarity from any democratic countries, any statement, is very crucial and important now. it's important to give assistance to democratic forces, to new initiatives that create -- regime for them to understand there's no way out of the situation, only negotiation with belorussian people because everything we want is release political prisoners, stop violence in our country and bring belarus new elections

where people can choose leadership by themselves. >> i mentioned your husband. you're also the mother of two. i'm curious how you're coping. what drives you to keep going, to keep fighting? >> every day i'm looking into the eyes of my children asking, where is our daddy? and i understand that thousands of families live in the same situation as i do. and, you know, i continue my fight not only for my husband, of course, but for all those people who are suffering on the ground, who are suffering in exile and want to come back home. also, i'm really happy for the support i get, people from democratic world, we see unity, we see consistency, though i'm sure that much more could be done in our situation. >> thank you so much for coming on the show this morning. thank you for what you're doing. belarusian opposition leader

sviatlana t sikh anouskaya, thank you. still ahead on "morning joe," it's not just russian military raising alarms. there's also its army of hackers. how cyber warfare poses a real threat here at home. as we go to break, a shout out to the ap's phillip krauther, reporting from ukraine in six different languages. take a look. >> there's a war with russian-backed forces -- [ speaking foreign language ] [ speaking foreign language ] >> wow. that looks -- very good. great job. >> now, that looks impressive, but if you translate it, he's just repeating the phrase, where is the library?

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front lines of the war to america's front door. with ukraine already under cyber attack, the european union has activated its own cyber security team to help fight off the attacks. now new york has opened a new statewide joint operations command. >> know if that attack is coming. if it comes and you're not ready, it could be devastating. >> reporter: recent cyber attacks shows the potential impact. last year russian cyber gangs launched a crippling attacks on colonial pipeline, forcing a total shutdown and long lines at gas stations. russian-linked gangs also targeted jbs, the world's largest meat processing company, forcing it to reduce operations at 13 flants the u.s. the kremlin denied involvement in either of those attacks but experts warn the kremlin may work with cyber criminals. homeland security says government offices at every level, u.s. businesses and

organizations, should watch for russian online activity and immediately shore up their cyber defenses. verify all remote users' access, use multi-factor authentication, keep security software up to date and monitor any traffic with ukrainian offices or organizations. >> the united states has the largest and most technologically advanced in the world but that means we have the most points of attack. >> reporter: a cyber war could quickly escalate, affecting citizens worldwide. if we target their infrastructure, they could target ours. >> that's right. there's a snowball effect. i don't think we want to go down that line and see how civilians and organizations are going to get extremely hurt by this. >> that was nbc's tom costello reporting. coming up, one of the biggest names in golf is taking time off after sparking serious controversy. why phil mickelson is apologizing for what he admits

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♪♪ welcome back. phil mickelson is apologizing over some controversial comments. the fallout has already cost him a sponsorship and now the golf superstar is stepping back from the sport. nbc's kerry sanders reports. >> defeats. >> reporter: one of golf's most popular players, phil mickelson, has long been a fan favorite for his go-for-broke style of play. but off the course, mickelson's recent comments have landed him in the rough.

speaking to alan shipnuck, the golfer explains why the golfer was interested in a new golf tour, sponsored by saudi arabia. saying, in part, we know they killed washington post reporter jamal khashoggi and have a horrible record on human rights. they execute people over there for being gay, knowing all of this, why would i even consider it? because this is a once in a lifetime opportunity to reshape how the pga tour operates. mickelson, who has nearly $100 million in career earnings, also accused the pga tour of manipulative, coercive, strong-arm tactics and said saudi money would give players leverage to gain concessions from the pga. >> i think it made him look like an amoral mercenary. >> reporter: mickelson believed his comments were taken off record and taken out of context.

mickelson also apologized for his comments, calling his choice of words, reckless. the golf great adding, he needs some time away from the game. at the same time, mickelson seemed to double down on his criticism of the pga, writing, golf desperately needs change and real change is always preceded by disruption. >> are you kidding me? >> reporter: the controversy has cost mickelson a sponsor. the professional services firm, kpmg, saying they mutually agreed to end our sponsorship effective immediately. other top players distancing themselves from mickelson's comments. >> i don't want to kick someone while he's down, obviously, but i thought they were naive, selfish, egotistical, ignorant. >> that was nbc's kerry sanders reporting. coming up, when it comes to criticizing world leaders, you would think vladimir putin would

be at the top of the list, but some so-called conservatives seem far more upset with justin trudeau, while giving the russian strong man a pass. "morning joe" is back in a moment. "morning joe" is back ina "morning joe" is back ina moment [copy machine printing] ♪ ♪ who would've thought printing... could lead to growing trees. ♪

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respect for him. i've been criticized for saying that. no, i have enormous respect for him. he was also an interlocutuer that was very well informed and clear about what russian interests were. it required the same from us, from me, from our team. we had to be equally prepared and equally protective of the interests that mattered to the united states. he's very savvy, very shrewd. >> i went in yesterday and there

was a television screen, and i said, this is genius. putin declares a big portion of the ukraine -- of ukraine. putin declares it of independent. oh, that's wonderful. so, putin is now saying, it's independent, a large section of ukraine. i said, how smart is that? and he's going to go in and be a peacekeeper. that's the strongest peace force i've ever seen. there were more army tanks that i've ever seen. they're going to keep peace all right. here's a guy that says, you know, i'm going to declare a big portion of ukraine independent. he used the word independent. and we're going to go out and we're going to go in and we're going to help keep peace. you got to say, that's pretty savvy. >> it's really unbelievable. savvy is a word that donald trump used. the secretary of state also said. >> trump's secretary of state. >> trump's secretary of state. talked about his respect for

vladimir putin. said he was elegantly sophisticated. we're seeing on fox news people who are running resistance for vladimir putin. we're seeing republic candidates who were trashing u.s. military heroes while elevating vladimir putin, while saying they don't care about the largest land invasion that's about to happen since world war ii. we had earlier, we had former secretary -- defense secretary and former cia director leon panetta on. he said a quote that really cuts through all of this, this chatter by useful idiots. he said for anyone offering support for putin, they need to understand his goal is to undermine the united states, to weaken us and to cripple our democracy. there is no doubt, you can listen to him -- >> like they need to be told that. >> -- over the last 22 years,

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let us be aware that while they preach the supremacy of the state, declare over individual man that and predict its domination of all peoples on the earth, they are the focus of evil in the modern world. >> this is genius. putin declares a big portion of the ukraine -- of ukraine, putin declares it as independent. oh, that's wonderful. >> what i'm describing now is a plan and hope for the long term,

the march of freedom and democracy, which will leave marxism, leninism which stifle the freedom of people. >> very capable, i have enormous respect for him. i have enormou him. i have been criticized for saying that. no, i have enormous respect for them. >> mr. gorbachev, tear down this wall. >> if you want to look for somebody who is responsible for what's going on in russia and ukraine, look at joe biden. but we have been saying you have got to do more in your own defense. >> joining us now matt lewis and tim miller. good you have to both with news matt lewis here again a rare twilight doubleheader where he is pitching the first and the ninth inning. tim, we came up on reagan, on

thatcher, on buckley, on jean kirkpatrick. jean was the type of diplomat and u.n. secretary that we had great respect for. on the democratic side, dr. briz enski, cold warriors, all, who warned us about, well, russia. pompa quote saying enormous respect this last week. donald trump saying of this invasion, quote, it's junious. this is disorienting. this is what we used to call useful idiots on the far far left. what do you make of it now? >> it is disorienting. but i would like to turn the clock back before 2016. we saw the embers of this during the obama administration. you remember, there was rhetoric from conservative commentators talk radio talks who hadn't

broken in with the establishment: but on the commentary side talking about how biden was so weak and we needed a strong leader like vladimir putin. you saw that as a discourse during the second obama term. i think that was why they turned to donald trump, somebody who is weak if his personal characteristic traits but presents strong and was willing to fight the left, fight the things they didn't like. now with trump winning that primary, that feeling that we needed a strong leader like putin turned into kind of the gross admiration for him at the expense of, you know, what we are asking for in america. now what you do not see among republican voters is the cold war mentality of anybody that is

wearing the u.s.a. jersey is better no matter what their political stripe is than what's happening over there. you see a lot of republicans, the voters, that have a reference for putin to biden, to democrats, to the woke left. and they are feelings are bubbling up to the politicians and the tucker carlsons of the world who are reflecting it. >> i don't understand, tim. this did bubble up before n. deefs 2015 we had donald trump on this program. he kept talking about how we kill a lot of people, too. we americans kill a lot of people, too. and vladimir putin is strong. >> he kept saying, he kills journalist, political opponents. >> donald trump would say, we are no better. we kill people people. i didn't understand it then. i don't understand it now. what's their game. why are they doing this? when i say they, i am including donald trump, former secretary of state mike pompa, senate

candidates in ohio, fox news. what's their game in supporting these tyrants? >> it is simple. it's all about owning the left, undermining their political enemies. any cudgel that can be used to make them look weak, evil, you saw in the last segment comparing trudeau to putin since he's fighting the truckers who are in league on the right in the protest against covid. anything to undermine serves this broader ideology. that is, the undermining -- costume, underlying free people, free markets that animated the right's ideology in the '80s and '90s isn't anymore. what animates their ideology is wanting to defeat the aaccidentant cultural left. putt nguyen some senses in their ally in that.

i think there is a range to people like tucker and trump who literally see him as an ally, and then others who kind of use him to just serve those ends when convenient. >> donald trump always has a reason for what he does. there's always something he's getting out of it. so i still wonder what it is in this case. matt lewis, we earlier discussed your new piece entitled twist conservatives feel trudeau is more evil than putin. here's just a bit of what you mean. >> we need to stay the heck out it. i have heard biden and even some senators threaten economic sanctions. i wouldn't get into an economic war with russia either because we import a lot of stuff from russia. >> why would we engage ourselves in a border dispute thousands of miles away in eastern europe when we can't control our own southern border? >> trudeau introducing this

emergencying act is out of line. it is an attack on people who want to peacefully protest and protection at the end of the day our freedom. >> to our north a dictator, yet the mainstream narrative keeps insisting we need to pay attention to russia. >> matt lewis explain how, again, a democratically elected person who is trying to help workers get to their jobs, trying to help commerce flow in canada, is called a dictator and a dictator's actually called an ally of conservatives. >> it's really stunning and infuriating, joe. that is kmktly what it is. i think the fact that these are the dominant stories right now, canada, and ukraine really give us this opportunity to do a case study observation like the same people on the right who are literally calling trudeau a dictator for, again, after three

weeks, finally restoring law and order in canada -- the same people who are calling him an authoritarian and a dictator saying we should send troops there, vladimir putin is a good guy. doing what we would do. you would do the same thing. he's shrewd. it's an indictment on the modern american right. its opposite of everything we grew up with, joe. and i think actually this is an interesting point here. i have really tried to study what happened, what went wrong. because, you know, when i came of age in the reagan era -- you showed that clip of him a couple of minutes ago. here he was talking about moral clarity. we are the good guys. we win. they lose. now you have people like donald trump who are having moral relativism, hey, everybody does bad things. so, how did we get here?

and i think what's really interesting is i think we were the product -- i think when we came of age, that was the anomaly. if you go back and study the right, the old right, before world war ii, it's eerily similar to when we are seeing today and i think lindbergh actually mightite fit in very well. you had isolationism. and i think the blame america first crowd is now on the right. and there was a brief few decades, joe, of reaganism. and i think i'm out of touch because that's the -- that's the conservative i grew up with. >> exactly. mike barnicle, quick question? >> tim, why does it seem that the far right of the former republican party, their voice, their pull horn, has more resonance than anything on the left. >> i think it is about the diversity of the coalition.

the left wing coalition, the joe biden coalition went all the way from joe all the way over to ocasio cortez. i think there is a homo jennaity to what is happening on the far right. you look at about 60%, really, of the republican party is in line with the most extreme views being put forth by donald trump and those in the freedom caucus. they were in line with the fact that the election was stolen, and you know, anti-vaxx, these other conspiracies. so that gives them this base of support to animate that it's harder to do on the left because the coalition is more fragmented. >> tim miller, thank you. we are hoping maybe you can come back tomorrow. we want to talk to you about this extremely troerl so-called don't say gay bill making its way through the florida legislature.

we would like to bring you back. >> matt, you never to know, we may call you at 5:45 in the morning. that does it for us this morning. chris jansing picks up the coverage right now. >> hi there, i'm chris jansing live at merchandise headquarters in new york. it is wednesday, february 23rd. we've got a lot to get to this. morning, the u.s. is bracing for russian retaliation. businesses preparing for possible cyber attacks one day after president biden hit the kremlin with a new wave of sanctions in response to russia's invasion of eastern ukraine. russia's ambassador to the u.s. wrote this. sanctions introduced against us will hit global financial and energy markets. the united states will not be left out with its ordinary citizens feeling the consequences of the price increase in full. this morning, even after ordering troops across the border president putin said he was still open to talks. but u.s. officialsre