hi there, everyone. it is 4:00 in new york. the crisis in ukraine and the looming possibility of the largest ground war in europe since world war ii has quickly become an historic test of the united states and the western alliance with a steady drip of developments that suggest vladimir putin is intent on redrawing the map of europe by force. a senior defense official tells nbc news that russian forces are poised for a full scale invasion, that russia is, quote, as ready as they can be. earlier today a round of cyberattacks targeted ukrainian government sites and banks which are consistent with ones that took place last week that the u.s. blames on russia. preparations are under way in ukraine for an all-out conflict. the president declared a state of emergency and is urging all ukrainian nationals to leave russia. from the biden white house, a massive diplomatic effort to

unite the world against russian aggression, that effort includes sanctions. just today a new round targeted the company building the nord stream 2 gas pipeline from russia to germany, as well as some straight talk. here is linda thomas-greenfield in a meeting of the united nations general assembly just this morning. >> russia's actions have only confirmed what we and other nations have been warning about. other u.n. member states must recognize the threat before us all today, before it is too late. colleagues, there's no middle ground here. calling for both sides to de-escalate only gives russia a pass. russia is the aggressor here. history tells us that looking the other way is ultimately the more costly path. this is 2022. we're not going back to an era

of empires and colonies or to the ussr or the soviet union. we have moved forward. and we must ensure as the permanent representative from kenya said in the security council on monday night that the embers of dead empires do not ignite new forms of oppression and violence. >> with so much at stake, for the united states, for the west, for europe, for the whole post world war ii world order. it is notable that sizable chunks of one of this country's two existing political parties has effectively become a cheerleader for vladimir putin and his goals. of course, they're all led by the disgraced ex-president and the most watched host over on fox news, donald trump, whose admiration for russia and russia's dictator is well known and highly publicized at this point. his own turn on the world stage will forever be marred by his

decision to side publicly with vladimir putin over his own intelligence agencies on the issue of, again notable, election interference at the 2018 summit in helsinki where he called putin's invasion this week of ukraine genius, smart, savvy. those comments come after months and months of around the clock rhetoric by fox news host tucker carlson, explicitly questioning nato and america's commitment to nato and to ukraine. here is what carlson said last night. just hours after our current president, joe biden, described russian actions in ukraine as the beginning of an invasion. >> hitting putin has become the central purpose of america's foreign policy, the main thing that we talk about, what is this really about? why do i hate putin so much? has putin ever called me a racist? has he threatened to get me fired for disagreeing with him? has he shipped every middle class job in my town to russia?

did he manufacture a worldwide pandemic? is he making fentanyl? is he trying to snuff out christianity? does he eat dogs? >> that really happened. millions of people saw it. january 66 select committee member and congressman adam kinzinger lays out exactly what that kind of rhetoric means tweeting this, tucker carlson basically said putin isn't your enemy, your fellow american is, this is beyond dangerous to say the least, and it should be no surprise to any of us that tucker carlson's endless undermining of decades of american foreign policy comes as music to the ears of not just vladimir putin, but kremlin propagandists. the daily beast is reporting this, translated clips of fox news host tucker carlson have been making the rounds on russian state television.

that's where we start today, with some of our favorite reporters and friends. msnbc political analyst peter baker is here. also tim miller, former rnc spokesman, writer at large for the bulwark and msnbc contributor. and msnbc political analyst, former senator claire mccaskill is here, a member of the senate armed services committee, and retired army lieutenant colonel alexander vindman is here, former director for european affairs with the national security council. we're going to dive into the propaganda piece of this, because i think we have to dispel the notion that the fever can be broken or that there is something else going on. it is clear we're on the precipice of what you feared most, and i wonder if you can tell me your understanding and your sense of what the next 12 to 24 hours hold. >> predicting within 12 to 24 hours is tough. but what i see is that russian forces are poised for a major

offensive. for those folks that were thinking that this might somehow end with a limited campaign, russia is now pushed almost an entire force to assault positions, these are the last positions before they jump off across into ukraine. they are prepared to do this and have built all the pretext for this offensive by recognizing the breakaway regions, rug russian controlled regions as independent states. he's now kind of empowered those leaders, those puppets to request help from russia, to defeat this supposed offensive coming from ukraine. so all the pieces are in place, all the assets to conduct this major earthquake offensive. this is my worst fears, this is the thing that i've been hoping we could avoid for two months is all but certain to pass now. >> and i want to establish a couple of things with you, the cyberattacks suggests that a

warfare is already happening. can you talk about that? and what a counteroffensive look like from the ukrainian side. >> so in u.s. terms, this would be the shaping operations. the next stage is a major combat operation. in the shaping operation, they're looking to degrade the command and control of the ukrainian armed forces, to frankly be as disruptive as possible with regards to emergency responders and crisis planning, telecommunications will be knocked out, either through cyberoperations or kinetic strikes. these are the things that we have done repeatedly in our invasions, you know, in iraq and it is the same kind of playbook, these are the things that are likely to unfold over the next several hours and days. >> and then tell me what an invasion will look like, where will it start, and how many

troops will be targeting one another and what is this scenario, best, worse and middle ground? >> there is a whole science behind how our own military would identify what is the main avenue of attack, how it would be sequenced and so forth, and i haven't done that analysis. there are certain outlines that pretty clear. there is a scenario in which russia first expands the russian-controlled territories in these donetsk and luhansk regions. right now the territories consist of a third of the entire province or the combined two provinces. pushing through to consume the entire territory would triple the size of the russian-controlled regions. that would also consume ukraine ian forces looking to defend them, pulling off forces in other parts of the country, including around ukraine, that's what they might be counting on

and i can see pincers, encirclements of ukraine and probably large swaths of if not the entirety of the eastern portion of ukraine to the river, you can see it in that map, kind of dark line running north to south, crisscrossing back and forth. that part of the operation looks pretty clear, based on how they're postured. i think there is also something to be said about the naval forces, the maritime forces, that are positioned to the south of ukraine and threatening the major port of odessa, which is basically the gateway to the seas and the oceans. i think there is a good chance there will be an effort to seize that part of russia -- ukraine too. there is a larger cross section of russian speakers. ukrainian citizens, but russian speakers. so i think there is a chance that a ukraine -- the objective of the operation is to have a much, much smaller ukraine, if any at all, and part of this is

also going to play out in this non -- not necessarily clearly military space with regards to assassinations, sabotage, there is enormous special operations presence targeting the political leadership of ukraine is also very, very likely with some contingencies in place to puppet pro russian leadership to run the country or the rump of a country that is left over. this is the way the russians conceded. i hope that ukraine can hold out. they have activated their operational reserve, which consiss of another couple thousand troops. the problem is it is coming pretty late and the things that you need to do to defend, the demolition, preparation of demolitions for bridges and roads, obstacles, those types of things are -- there is just not necessarily enough time if this lands in the next day or two. but these forces will be in the

fight and prepared to defend ukraine. >> and you predict that in a ground war, loss of life is likely, can you talk about how many troops we lined up against one another? >> so on one side, the defender side, we're looking at somewhere, this doesn't include the home guard, territorial defense forces, there is likely to be a full mobilization of the population. but in terms of the folks that are likely to be called up, it is somewhere between 450 to 500,000 troops on the ukrainian side, somewhere close to about 200,000 troops on the russian side. so we're talking about 700,000 troops in combat. in a country of about 45 million people, with fighting in cities, this is going to be -- this is an ugly, ugly metaphor, but a meat grinder. and that's why when i hear folks like donald trump praise what i

hear folks like donald trump praise putin and tucker carlson, i see it as the beginning of the end for them. they are -- they are stepping into a trap. it is okay for them to cheer lead outside of conflict and say putin is such a great guy, biden is not doing what he should be doing. but when you have tens of thousands of casualties, the republicans are going to own it. tucker carlson is going to own this. he's basically digging his own grave, so to speak, political grave and so is donald trump and so are the other folks that are on the record cheerleading for russia just days before they conduct this major, major offensive. >> let's stop right here. this is where we're going to spend and spend our time. you made clear that what vladimir putin has planned is political assassinations targeting the leaders of ukraine, 700,000 human lives will be on the line almost immediately on the ground war,

450,000 to 500,000 troops from the ukrainian side and at least 250,000 in forward positions on the russian side backed up by hundreds of thousands more, i'm sure. so this is what with 700,000 human lives on the line, and political assassinations in the works for vladimir putin, this is what mike pompeo who would like to run for president some day thinks of vladimir putin. >> very shrewd, very capable, i have enormous respect for him. i've been criticized for saying that. i have enormous respect for him. he was also an interlocutor that was always well informed, and deeply clear about what russian interests were. i appreciated that. it required the same from us, from me, from my team, we had to be equally prepared, and equally protective of the interests that mattered to the united states. he's very savvy, very shrewd. >> i wish john mccain were alive to call mike pompeo what he is.

but lest he is not. vladimir putin used to be known by republicans as the most visible and prominent ones, ones with all their body parts as a killer. there is now a real sense among former investigators and prosecutors, colonel vindman, this may have more to do with what they want to do in the next presidential election. is it possible that all this -- you think of what mike flynn did, imagine the calls that could go on with vladimir putin for the next three years about lifting these sanctions. what do you make? what adds up in your mind to calling someone who puts 700,000 human lives, 450,000 to 500,000 ukrainian lives, america's allies, russian lives and political assassinations of leaders online and describing

that murderous dictator as very shrewd and very capable? where are we? >> so there is -- yeah, so it is interesting, sometimes politicians hedge and they could have a viable discourse with their opposition. somebody like pompeo with his enormous ego thinks that he wants to be able to have a conversation with him when he becomes president. the problem is he is in dream land. these folks failed to realize the size and scale of what is about to unfold. it is going to be enormous. it is going to be a meat grinder. and he just went on record, tucker carlson, donald trump, basically encouraging this. that's why i say, look, i'm not, you know, by any means like a swami or anything of that nature reading the tea leaves or anything like that, i saw the way things were shaping up and called this the way i thought it needed to be and i tried to raise the alarm so we could take

actions to prevent it. but i'm going to call this one. i think this is the beginning of the end of these, you know, completely far right whack jobs that are basically encouraging putin to take this action. that's what they did. in creating these massive discord, hyperpolarization, they encouraged putin to believe there is an opportunity to act with little cost. and blood is on their hands. i think, you know, i think i have a good sense of this country and its people and when we start seeing these casualties unfold, and the way this affects our national security interests, there is go to be a toll and it is going -- and these guys are going to pay that toll. >> peter baker, i would like to show you what the ukrainian foreign minister said today at the united nations, the warning of what the man that mike pompeo is very shrewd, very capable, of what he's going to do after

ukraine. >> it is with a heavy heart that we all need to admit the grim reality of a new aggressive rule rising over europe. the beginning of a large scale war in ukraine will be the end of the world order as we know it. russia will not stop at ukraine. >> peter baker, you know more about russia and about vladimir putin than i do. you have the experience of covering the last i'll say three, put probably four american presidents, right. have you seen a shift this abrupt in terms of how the united states of america or at least one of its two political parties, not just flatters a dictator, but eggs him on, on the precipice of a war that

immediately endangers the human lives of 700,000 people, 500,000 of them u.s. allies? >> no, i think that you have to go back to preworld war ii to find anything like this. the republican party of the world war ii era was skeptical of the use of force to rewrite boundaries in europe this way. and one of the potential, former president who may run between for president as well as another candidate for president seemingly, you know, praising putin at this very moment, it is rather remarkable. hard to think of an exact parallel in the last few generations. and i think it says something about, you know, this era and this moment in time, you can certainly argue about how president biden has or hasn't handled this, you can say he's done a good job or bad job, those are certainly, you know,

certainly room for debate there. but to basically choose to praise president putin and say nothing critical at all about what he's doing there is a rather remarkable thing on the part of the major and much less more than one major political figure. >> that's the point that adam kinzinger makes. he takes this house gop tweet, i guess, tweeted by a person that runs the house gop account, and attacking president biden and to peter baker's point we should have policy debates in this country, that's not what the republicans are doing, not a policy debate, not about whether we should or should not stay in nato. trump wanted to have that debate. i think every chief of staff described it as their greatest accomplishment that he managed to keep trump in nato, the big debate i think they fought and fought and fought with trump over days and days to get him to commit to article five. trump wanted to leave nato and

they kept him in it. his party now clearly was where trump was. and i want to read kinzinger's tweet to you, tim. he writes, still technically a member with house republicans, let me with all my might condemn this awful tweet during this crisis. you can criticize policy this is insane and feeds into putin's narrative, but, hey, retweets, am i right? what do we do with, like, adam kinzinger and liz cheney as the only people left with a pulse of moral clarity in terms of u.s. foreign policy? >> the tweet, the trolling, the unseriousness, the hatefulness that i thought the earlier tweet was right to the point about targeting our fellow man, targeting domestic political foes like biden or whatever teachers who are treating -- teaching them that racism is bad

and making them worse than vladimir putin, this is at the core of what the party wants. and this is -- there is this contrast happening right now. some of the old guard, who know, you know who follow the traditional rules and you don't see mitch mcconnell out there doing these kind of childish trolling in the same way and, but you see, like, a ted cruz will tweet that joe biden is a surrender monkey. classy. for not being tough enough with the sanctions or whatever. meanwhile you have trump and j.d. vance and the populist maga right arguing biden needs to surrender hard. and the only thing that they can agree on is that the person that they're mad at is joe biden and not vladimir putin. and the darkest part about all this, i'm so honored to be on with colonel vindman and grateful for his optimism about the american people, but the thing that worries me is that i think that trump has a better

pulse on what republican votes want than tucker does than what we would have or for our highest hopes. i remember in the 2016 campaign de souza and others going out and saying putin is a stronger leader than obama, and, you know, the jabs of the world were like, this is a silly talking point, this is ridiculous. but trump echoed that. and that was the message that republican voters overwhelmingly wanted to hear. if you look at polls now, there is a disturbing trend of republican voters having more affinity for putin than they do for biden or having more affinity for his supposed strength as a leader because he kills political foes or whatever. so i think that is the most alarming thing about all this, is that the politicians and the party that have their -- the closest pulse on what the voters want are the ones doing the most despicable things. that has some really concerning, you know, medium term trends of

where things are going, they can be worse now. i hope alex's optimistic view is correct, but i'm concerned about that. >> and i think it is undeniable that with u.s. troops, claire mccaskill, moving into the region, to our nato allies, they're not in ukraine, obviously. not a part of nato. but there are families watching. there are lives on the line. there is a war potentially, most likely, about to break out, in europe. and half the country is cheering for america's adversary. >> it is startling about this is the lack of due diligence by tucker carlson and josh hawley and j.d. vance and trump and all of the ones that are kissing up on putin for his authoritarian march against a democracy next

door. he's been planning this for a long time. he's buffed up his reserves in anticipation of sanctions. and he's rushed into the arms of china. and the irony is these far right maga types want to make china the bad guy and they don't realize that putin and xi are kissing cousins. they see the world the same way and the one word that is absent from the republican party right now with the unified voice is respect for freedom. i remember when the republicans were so angry at the french, we couldn't serve french fries in the capitol hill dining halls. they had to be renamed freedom fries because france wasn't showing enough obedience to the concept of freedom. freedom is a big deal to americans and the democratic party needs to start talking about freedom because what this

is all about, whether taiwan or hong kong or the ukraine, it is about two guys, with a lot of resources that are joining up together to try to freeze out western democracies, and putin is going to do it on the ground and there will be visuals and they will be brutal of people being killed because all they want to do is have democracy and freedom. >> no one is going anywhere. there is much more to talk to with all of our guests in just a moment on this unfolding crisis in ukraine and the political divide that has been exposed here at home. two top prosecutors involved in the manhattan district attorney's investigation into donald trump and trump org have resigned from the d.a.'s office. what this might say, this early point about that probe. and later in the program, a witness who is as close as it gets to donald trump is in talks with the january 6th select committee. former president's own daughter ivanka trump. all this and more when

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i said, here's the problem with nato. it is obsolete. big statement to make when you don't know that much about it, but i learn quickly. >> didn't know much about it. of course, that was him as candidate, one of his -- what became like an applause line, frequent, repeated, attacks over the alliance that has for decades underpinned u.s. foreign policy and global national security. we're back with our panel. colonel vindman, i want to come

back to you, and ask you an uncomfortable question. this is the poll number that i think tim's talking about, putin's unfavorability, the number of republicans who don't like putin is 39%. i thought that was a little high. biden's is 89%. frankly i thought that was a little low. but my question is did -- did six years of blasting america's allies and i don't even know the right verb to use for what he did to putin, russia, are you listening, he enlisted him in his general election campaign against hillary clinton, the helsinki moment, of course, when jonathan lemire asked him the question in front of the world sided with putin, not the u.s. intelligence agencies, at every turn, not just elevating putin to our level, but above american

foreign policy, is it possible that it worked and we now can't as a united country participate with our allies or is it just a divided america? is it -- what do they think? >> no, it didn't work. i don't believe that about this country. i don't believe that about these people. the bottom line is what i see is based on my perspective, having served this country for more than two decades, in combat, in some very, very difficult locates, is a perspective from the american public. we have been in the cocoon of prosperity for a long time. the fact that there is a growing divide between the haves and the have-nots, we're the most prosperous society ever in the history of the world. and because we're in this cocoon, we have lost perspective. we're about to get perspective real quick. what is about to unfold is going

to be a catastrophe. this is the kind of precombat jitters or something of that nature, thinking about what is about to unfold. it will be a wake-up call for the evil in this world. and the people that have been bandwagoning or had a rosy-eyed view and led down the primrose path by donald trump, and tucker carlson and mike pompeo are going to wake up to a whole different world. a world in which we are under threat. and i think based on that basis, it is -- maybe there is a little bit of wishful thinking because i think american -- the american people are good fundamentally. but in reality, i just understand the severity about -- of what is about to unfold, and i think it is going to be a massive wake-up call, and it has the -- this is maybe something -- we have seen this unfold over the course of the past couple of months amongst the elites between us and our allies, this consensus, this

unanimity of thought and action that is between us and our allies at the elite level based on the recognition of where we're headed. we haven't that effect on the u.s. population yet. we're about to face something very, very difficult and very, very stark and really there is almost no opportunity to avoid it. there is a question of whether china could weigh in and i don't have as pessimistic a view. they don't want to up end a system that allowed them to be a rising power and sat out on the sidelines of it. maybe they're the only ones that could stop it at this point. it is a big deal. it is going to change the way the populations thinks of the world and based on these visuals and i think it is going to -- it is going to kind of reformat a little bit how the american public thinks about things. >> i hope so. i appreciate, look, colonel

vindman's service as the passion of the converts, the passion of immigrants, makes me want to wave my american flag. i just know that tucker's been doing this for months now, and his audience isn't going anywhere. it is not like he's turning people off. he's actually more watched than the relatively more responsible people over that other network. what does that say to me? it says that the types of people that are highly engaged, you know, are responding to this old style father coughlin to peter's point preworld war ii isolationist conservatism. i would have thought four years of donald trump, storming of a capitol, a pandemic that he managed incompetently that led to hundreds of thousands of deaths, i would have thought would have woken people up, it hasn't. i don't share colonel vindman's optimism on this point but it is

inspiring and i'm hopeful he's right. >> what about the conversation from a former prosecutor that russia is not going anywhere in terms of participating in and trying to influence through all means possible either by expanding, divides in our politics, or meddling more directly, this idea that everyone that is out front is a major political player and not in the last two elections, but in the next one? >> yeah, i do think that russia has been calculating that they have a better chance of steam rolling, bulldozing, killing tens upon thousands of ukrainians in the name of putin expanding russia into a larger territory that at first america is not united. there would have been a time and not too long ago, nicole, that this would unite our country, this would get everyone together in the name of what is right and

good in american values. but instead, putin is banking on the fact that he's got tucker carlson cheering him on and a former president cheering him on, and other people who want to be president cheering him on, appealing to the lowest common denominator and that is it is all about america, who cares about the ukraine people. so it is -- and i want to say too how much i respect colonel vindman and how much i want to agree with his optimistic view that this terror that is going to unfold will do what it takes to bring us back to sanity in this country. but i guess the silver lining i see right now is what a good job biden has done uniting nato. you can see these sanctions imposed today were among various nations and everyone took a different piece of it, trying to begin to encroach upon the wealth of trump's inner circle

and how important that wealth is to them, the oligarchs and all the hangers on, so we'll see, and i do think it is interesting that colonel vindman points out, he has a role here. he could be the hero and say the international monetary system or he could throw in with the devil and do what's necessary for authoritarianism and no more freedom of speech, no more freedom of religion, no more freedom. >> peter baker, the mueller investigation found this. on august 2nd, 2016, trump campaign chairman paul manafort met in new york city with his long time business associate, the fbi assesses to have ties to russian intelligence. he requested the meeting to deliver in person a peace plan for ukraine that manafort acknowledged to the special council's office was a back doorway for russia to control part of eastern ukraine. both men believe the plan would require candidate trump's assent

to succeed were he to be elected president. he did ascend and succeed. why do you think putin didn't engage in this operation while trump was president? >> well, it is a good question. he said yesterday this wouldn't have happened when i was president, or somehow he was too tough. i think a number of things, one, he didn't need help, putin didn't need help trying to drive a wedge in nato because president trump was doing that. president trump as we talked about in this program repeatedly badgered and berated the western allies, especially germany, for not paying enough in his view for defense spending and in fact he continued that theme just yesterday in that same radio interview. he recalled with great glee how he threatened not to abide by the article five commitment to defend nato allies if they didn't pay up. to use his phrase. he already had in president trump somebody who was accomplishing something that president putin wanted to accomplish, which was to drive

divisions among nato. it is a good question whether president trump was volatile enough that president putin didn't know how he would react to, you know, something more aggressive in ukraine, but also getting what he wanted in ukraine, in the sense that nobody was trying to reverse what he had already done. he had already seized crimea, already annexed it, already had taken in effect to some extent parts of luhansk and donetsk to the separatists, you know, enclaves in effect, without anybody in the united states doing much about it during the four years of president trump was in office. it is a fair question to ask why he didn't do it while trump was in office given what close relationship the two had and a fair question to ask why he chose to do it now. i think he's at a point in his career, 23 years in power, about to turn 70, two years isolated in the pandemic where he stayed apart from most other human beings, more than most world leaders, he seems to be thinking about his legacy a lot now and the legacy he seems to want is to be the leader who brought

russia back together, who reunited some of the empire, reversing the great injustices he sees as they happened in 1991 when the soviet union broke apart. that has less to do with us and more to do with him and more to do with his sense of his own historical mission and drive. >> didn't go to war because he didn't need to. that's amazing. peter baker, lieutenant colonel alexander vindman and tim miller, thank you all so, so much for starting us off this hour. claire sticks around. when we come back, what are we learning about the resignation of two top prosecutors investigating the trump org here in new york? where that probe goes from here is next. in new york? where that probe goes from here is next.

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there is a major development to tell you about this afternoon in the investigation focused on donald trump's business practices, the one being conducted by the manhattan d.a. a spokesperson confirmed to nbc news that the two top prosecutors with leading roles in the case have resigned. two people familiar with the discussions adds this, without the commitment to move forward, the prosecutors late last month postponed a plan to question at least one witness before the grand jury. one of the people said. they have not questioned any witnesses in front of the grand jury for more than a month. essentially pausing their investigation into whether trump inflated the value of his assets to obtain favorable loan terms from banks. let's bring in nbc news

investigations correspondent tom winter, also joining us msnbc legal analyst dan goldman, former assistant u.s. attorney for sdny, former lead council for the democrats during donald trump's first impeachment trial, claire is still here, tom winter, what do you know? >> so i think this is important for a couple of different reasons. first off, terry dunn was the prosecutor who led not once, but twice this fight for trump's tax documents and indeed his tax returns through the supreme court in victorious on both occasions eventually getting the documents. he was the lead prosecutor last july when the charges were dropped against allen weisselberg and the trump organization and he was the one who spoke out in court and went through this whole chronology in detail about the allegations that the office was bringing against them. kerry has been the man on the front line and spearheading this investigation for quite some time. mike pomerantz was an

interesting addition, we have been told on several occasions that he was one of the primary people who was interviewing witnesses, either -- well, i should say just in the office and in the course of conducting this investigation, so these are two big names on their own, they're two significant players, not the only prosecutors and investigators in this, but two significant players, so i think this is a relevant development, there had been not been any activity since the end of late last year when there was a flurry of activity, some of that before the grand jury. we were told. it is not unsurprising in first few weeks of the year as a new district attorney, bragg came into office and would review this case, there would be a slowdown. that would be expected. what was unexpected is that over the past month or so, we haven't heard about anybody being interviewed. >> dan goldman what do you make

of this? >> let's step back for a second. this was always going to be a very difficult case to prove. on the criminal front. right, you need direct knowledge of wrongdoing to be -- to show that donald trump or someone else made material misrepresentations about their financial documents, that were relied on by banks, insurance companies, or tax entities. and the problem in getting to donald trump has always been that he doesn't email or text, so you basically need a cooperating witness and allen weisselberg wasn't cooperating, they took a run at him and he said no. notwithstanding everything he said on twitter and elsewhere, michael cohen is pretty much an unusable witness because he would be subject to such withering cross examination that his credibility would be so undermined. so we don't know of any potential witness against donald trump. so -- and that makes this case very difficult. that all being said, there is

something rotten when the two lead prosecutors, both of whom are extremely experienced, seasoned prosecutors and lawyers, publicly resign, reportedly because of disagreements with the d.a. and to me, the only conclusion i can reach without knowing any more and we don't know what the evidence is, but to me it wreaks of kerry dunn and mike pomerantz thinking there is a case here and then deciding that there is not. i can't figure out why else they would resign in this public of a way, if they agree there wasn't a case, they wouldn't need to resign, and if they were all in agreement that they should be charged and they wouldn't resign, so the clearly there is serious disagreement and a public resignation by prosecutors is a very, very

unusual event. >> and you make this distinction about this burden, criminal case, we covered i want to say last week, the covid time warp, three weeks ago, two weeks ago the developments in the civil case, and i wonder if it is that in a civil case the burden of proof is different. these resignations, do these resignations have any bearing on that case? >> no. these resignations have no bearing on the attorney general's civil case. that is running in parallel fashion to the criminal investigation. and it is very easy to think, oh, letitia james outlined all of these flagrant misrepresentations in her brief, therefore it is criminal. but it doesn't work that way. she clearly has a very strong potential civil case. and that could, you know, do serious damage to the trump

organization. but in a criminal case, you have to show that the individuals knowingly made these misrepresentations, so it is not just enough to show that there were these misrepresentations made, you have to show that a particular to show that particur individuals who were charged knew about them and made them and so donald trump needs to be, you need to show that he was involved in making misrepresentations and it's not good enough to just say, oh, he was the boss. of course he knew. you actually need direct evidence in court, admissible evidence, to be able to show that he did knowingly make those misrepresentations. so this is completely separate even though the subject matter is very similar. and to me, it's a tailor made civil case and if they get some breaks on the criminal side, it could be a provable, criminal

case. as i said, we don't know the evidence. i have a lot of respect for mark pomeranz and kerri dunn. i don't think they would do this if it was not good cause and they think there's something amiss. they think there's more here than what alvin bragg is crediting in this case. >> if you hear from any of them today, tell me i'd love to hear them out. thank you very much for spending some time with us. when we come back, there's new reporting this afternoon on ivanka trump in discussions about cooperating with the january 6th committee, but she might tell investigators about the plot to overturn the election. that's after a quick break. he election election that's after a quick break a serious chair for a serious business woman! i'm always a mom- that is why you are smart and e the durable fabric.

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her legal team have been in talks with the panel about potentially cooperating with their inquiry. joining us now, one of the reporters who broke this story. so, luke, ivanka trump is already part of what they've learned, right, from other senior officials, i believe it was mr. kellogg, mike pence's very senior counselor who said ivanka went to him a few times and he wouldn't listen. talk about what she adds by agreeing to talk them on what i imagine would be a narrow basis. >> sure, yeah. so we've had a couple of updates with two key witnesses. both ivanka trump and rudy giuliani. first, with miss trump, the main reason the committee wants to talk to her is the offense of january 6th. she was sent in once if not two times to speak with her father as the mob is rampaging through

the capitol and to try to get him to call off the attack, to issue a statement to call off the mob of his supporters who are beating police. she is unsuccessful, at least the first time. eventually after time goes on, there is a statement from donald trump, not a very helpful statement, even makes another one after that. they want to hear exactly what ivanka and donald trump talked about. so right now, the latest we've heard from people close to her is that she is in talks to voluntarily cooperate. there's not an agreement on when she'll come in, on the term of that testimony, but it is a matter of discussing her. >> and you mentioned developments on the rudy giuliani front. explain. >> yeah, so also today, people close to giuliani let it be known that he had informed the

committee that he would not speak against donald trump himself during his testimony, would not violate attorney client privileges, but he might be willing to talk about his conversations with members of congress and that is a key avenue the committee wants to explore. the connections between the trump legal team and those members of congress who have been who were involved in the attempts to object the election on the floor of the house and to pressure mike pence to overturn the election. >> the attorney general, this attorney general, what does it mean that ag barr has confirmed that doj was conducted by the archives regarding the classified information that you and your colleagues reported found at mar-a-lago, but didn't confirm or deny whether doj was investigating. can you do nothing if classified information is handled inappropriately? >> you know, i really, i don't

have any window into what merrick garland is doing or isn't doing. i know that there are many on the hill who believe that the justice department does need to be more aggressive with concern to the classified information that was at mar-a-lago. we know that the chair believes it is a violation of the presidential records act. we know there are several criminal statutes where lower level people charge nd the past with taking classified information from taking the appropriate places in the federal government. so we don't know if there's an investigation or not. we know the archives has contacted the justice department. they've asked them to look into it. there's probably statements from merrick garland to see what he's actually doing about it. >> so interesting. the rule of law doesn't just die when it's stomped on. sometimes it dies when no one does anything.

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show up, however you can, for the foster kids who need it most— at helpfosterchildren.com as russia contemplates its next move, we have our next move prepared as well. russia will pay an even steeper price including additional sanctions and there's no question that russia is the aggressor. so we're clear eyed about the challenges we're facing. >> hi, again, everyone. it's 5:00 in new york with no signs today to suggest that anything but imminent war is on the horizon. the biden administration announced a new round of sanctions. these aimed at the company building the nord stream 2 gas pipeline between germany and russia. it comes as new reporting reveals the extent to which

russia is prepared to attack. an official says putin has everything ready for a large scale invasion and that russia is quote, as ready as they can be. ukraine today beefing up preparations for violence, declaring a state of emergency. calling up military reservists and issuing a draft law that would allow citizens to carry firearms for self-defense. those of the number of ukrainian banks. the white house is pointing the finger at russia saying it considers these incidents to be consistent with the type of activity that russia would carry out. while the prospects for success, diplomacy are looking less and less likely, yesterday, we saw secretary of state blinken cancel his meeting with russian foreign minister lavrov saying quote, russia has made clear its wholesale rejection of diplomacy and it does not make sense to go

forward with a meeting. which brings us to the key question, how do you stop a war from breaking out when one side isn't afraid of engaging in one? here's michael mcfall yesterday. >> he believes his own propaganda. he thinks he's got a mission from god to do these things and he's moving towards doing it and it's i think therefore very scary. one other thing i would remind you about in terms of getting into putin's head. he's been to war. many times. georgia, 2008. ukraine, 2014. syria, 2015. every single one of those wars he believes that he won. with some justification, by the way. so he is not afraid of war. we keep thinking he's afraid of war. he is not. and he thinks he'll win the next one. >> responding to the sanctions imposed, russia remained defiant

saying the penalties will not affect our resolve to keep standing up for our interests and it warned of a quote, strong response. that is where we start this hour with two national security experts and good friends of the program. jeremy bash is here. and msnbc military analyst, retired four star general, barry mccaffrey. general, where do you see things this hour? >> well, i know it's on ap wires just reporting 18 minutes ago that both separatist provinces have requested in writing from the russians military forces for protection. so i think what we ought to anticipate is these so-called peace keeping units will now confront the bulk of the ukrainian armed forces who are facing them along this line.

150,000 troops, air, land, sea capability looks as if putin is proceeding deliberately. >> you were the second person since we've been on the air to anticipate that combat is imminent. can you say more about that? >> well, one of the things i noticed richard engel was reporting, there was light armor moving through the streets of these two separatist provinces last night with the markings painted out. really incredible the hybrid warfare that putin has learned in his multiple invasions of other countries. the bulk of the troops now, i'm reading reporting, some 80% of them, have moved into their attack positions. they're within five, 15 kilometers of the border. i'm sure they've all got their

orders. i'm sure we're listening to their tactical nets. it's hard to imagine that at some point where they pull the trigger and go after the ukrainians who are dug in, world war i fashion, don't have a significant mobile reserve force, it's hard to imagine the russians wouldn't also then come in from the north and belarus and encircle or seize kyiv, probably a two, three, four-day operation to get into the city would be street to street fighting. but i think once the bulk of the ukrainian armed forces would be defeated, along the line of contact from then on, most of the country will be vulnerable to them moving freely all the way to the west. >> and then what happens? >> well, they'll have ukraine. there's a pro moscow party in

the parliament. the gru and others. special operations units are believed to have infiltrated ukraine. they're in kyiv. we ought to anticipate they'll pull the electrical grid down. they control a lot of the carbon energy for ukraine. the russians do. so destabilizing impact on the economy we've already seen the start of cyber offensive operations. by the way, one comment, nicolle. over the years, jeremy knows more about this than i do, we the u.s. and the u.k. have enormous offensive cyber warfare capability. it's astonishing. i've been concerned about the discussion all day going on warning the u.s. to watch out. there's an element of deterrence to cyber warfare and we, the

u.s., can respond if kind if they use surrogates to go after our dams or whatever. >> i want to make sure everyone hears what you're saying. it's your sense that combat is imminent and that russian intelligence forces will infiltrate kyiv as soon as they make their way there, which it sounds like you think could be a matter of days. it's also been reported that political assassinations are expected. the colonel said 450 to 500,000 ukrainian troops would be ready to fight. 250,000 russians would be there in those first early days. how, what are your thoughts about the numbers of lives at risk and involved here just as this commences, general? >> well, there's a range of estimates that are out and obviously it depends on the fighting will and the degree to

which the russians can stun the ukrainians in their initial onslaught. there's a lot of very well equipped missing forces, attack aviation, attack helicopters. i think it will go very badly for the ukrainian ground forces along that line of contact. i mean, they're dug in trenches. they've been there for eight years. they're combat hardened, but this is going on a mobile war if the russians intervene with substantial elements and they've got to do it. they've got 100 combat there. i think they're going to punch through that line of contact and places, try to encircle the ukrainians from the rear and we'll have to see to what extent they can stand up to it. then the notion of guerrilla war, a regular war throughout

ukraine, sustaining it from nato countries. that's down the line. i don't even think it's worth speculating on. the russians can dominate ukrainian armed forces during onslaught if they go in all out a violent assault. the gru elements aren't headed to kyiv. they're there now. and there's a lot of, you know, collaborators throughout ukraine who will help them. >> jeremy, how do you see it at this hour? >> well, i agree that we could be in for a very violent several days then to your question of what happens then. so imagine the russians in control of the entirety of the land mass of ukraine. a russian puppet government in effect inside the ukrainian parliament. then i think we see an era in which russia has to pass fi and

ultimately govern ukraine under the theory of you break it, you buy it. then a very proud ukrainian population supported by the west, and i hope they are supported by the united states and the west in terms of arms training and equipping those elements. i think will launch an insurgency. it could either be the mother of all madons, an uprising in the street to demonstrate against the russian puppet government or you could see as the general was alluding to, insurgency and asymmetric warfare attacks. all along the way, the united states and our allies are going to remain united. we've had three days where the u.s. has rolled out three waves of sanctions and i think there's still more to come. i think this is going to be a very dark, dangerous, difficult period for the russians if they think they're going to have a success on the battlefield, i

think it's going to be followed by an absolute travesty. >> jeremy, let me read you this reporting on sanctions, the limits of sanctions in dealing with putin. times is reporting putin's decision to press ahead suggest that he has concluded the cost of new sanctions are tolerable despite u.s.' talk of con kwenss. the biden administration might find it has to impose the harshest sanctions, ones that would inflict suffering on many citizens or look for a noneconomic option such as giving military aid. biden said he will not send american troops to defend ukraine. where are we on that continuum and what options remain available for president biden? >> yeah, in my discussions with folks inside the u.s. government, i think all options are on the table short of sending ground combat troops in to face the russians and ukraine. what is on the table is sending

arms, training, and equipment and clandestine forces. diplomatic support is going to be in the cards. in terms of sanctions, i think we've taken significant steps. there's more to go. we could sanction spur bank and vtb bank. other banks that are very critical to russian elites. to the russian governing state. once we engage in these export restrictions, probably about six months time, we'll degrade the russian industrial manufacturing capability, their high-tech capability. that's going to be a significant blow to the russian economy. so i think putin's going to have this fundamental choice. an economy in decline is going to do into steeper decline, then govern ukraine, which will be very bloody and difficult for

him. >> jeremy, you understand this better than i do, but one of putin's tools for uniting his own country is playing an endless loop of republicans like mike pompeo and tucker carlson cheering him on. taking his side over the side of the american president. are we at the point now where you can offer any analysis of the impact in terms of how that strengthens putin's hand in this conflict? >> well, general mccaffrey knows this as well as anybody. one of the ways that the united states prevailed during the cold war era is that for the most part, partisanship ended at the water's edge. not to say there aren't debates about how to pursue this capability or that diplomatic effort. when it came to showcasing american resolve on the global change, we didn't have one democratic position and one republican position. we had just team usa. i think that helped us defeat

the soviet empire and i think ultimately, the only way we're going to prevail as a country as the west as a community of nations is if we put partisanship aside and stop trying to game this out in terms of you know, republicans trying to attack the president for this decision or that decision. i think it's time frankly to close ranks. i think anybody who doesn't back the american position is just helping putin because part of putin's game is information warfare. we've seen him try to engage in this hybrid phase zero graze on warfare. plays exactly into putin's playbook that i don't think anybody on the political scene of the united states should countenance that. >> ranks have been closed around putin. i don't know if you watched any fox news last night. i took in quite a bit. >> i did. >> tucker carlson was a guest on other programs because his views are either so popular that they boost the ratings of other programs or so prevalent among

their viewership. i guess what i'm asking you is how does an american president deal with the task of uniting a coalition, dealing with an adversary, then with whatever the white house has left, deal with the 40% of its own population that's cheering the adversary? >> well, i don't know if it's 40% or what it is, nicolle, but i think frankly the president's got to be commander in chief. to some degree, he's got to tune out the domestic political noise. he's got to focus, i think he is focussing on making the right decisions, talking to our allies and doing the work of the diplomat in chief, the command in chief, during what in effect is wartime. if there's going to be a cooky political dissension just for pure politics, frankly, i think we just ignore it and let it flame out. >> i want to read some of the sort of sound or reaction coming out of ukraine today.

this is the foreign minister -- - jeremy, the white house has made clear that it won't stop using sanctions. it seems like they've shut the door to some diplomacy. the secretary of state canceling the meeting with lavrov. but at who point is the inevitability that the general is describing, are we in that now or do you expect more sanctions to be announced? >> well, again, i think u.s. officials have been very clear eyed, nicolle, as we've talked to them. what they've said is we know that at the end of the day, sanctions may not ultimately deter putin from launching a total invasion of ukraine.

a blitzkrieg all the way to kyiv. i think there's hope that the sanctions will, over time, drain putin of some domestic support, that they'll isolate putin from the entire world. that they will hurt the russian economy and over time, this pressure will build and make it more intolerable for putin to continue to occupy ukraine. now again, he may go off a cliff. he may do something totally insane and pursue it in any event, but i think we have a strong set of tools to cut him off from the global economy and make it extraordinarily painful. and painful not just for the kremlin officials, but as one official noted last night. to their families. the people who they care about most. it's going to be very financially painful to them and that may change the russian calculus. i think that's what the united states and the west has to bank on. >> jeremy and general mccaffrey are staying put.

when we come back, we'll have live reports from moscow and ukraine following the report that russia is ready to go for a full scale invasion. and president biden narrowing down his list for possible picks for the united states support. we'll have the latest reporting on the finalists and washington, d.c. is bracing for the same kind of trucker convoys that ground the canadian capital to a halt. deadline white house continues after a quick break. stay with us. se continues after a quick break. stay with us

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what's important note here is that we have been saying imminent for days now and what i'm conveying to you is that we're also seeing adjustments by president putin or the need to adapt to what our response has been. so what the president has been doing has been continuing to work with partners and allies to ensure we remain united. to leave the door open to diplomacy, but to make very clear to president putin and to our partners around the world that there will be significant consequences beyond what we have done already should he invade further. >> white house press secretary jen psaki this afternoon on the administration's ongoing efforts to stave off war in ukraine. joining us now live is my colleague, cal perry, and from moscow, matt bodnar. cal, i start with you. jen psaki makes a very valid

point about the use of the word, imminent. these are people's lives in their home country that we're talking about. tell us what the right word to use is. does it feel imminent to them? >> reporter: so, until today, i don't think the ukrainians viewed it as imminent. what's changed here, and it's important, is the state of emergency that's been announced. it's a country that is very much preparing for some sort of wide scale invasion. making sure they know who's traveling where. for the ukrainians, you had the cyber attacks. the banks got hit. i was listened to richard engel where he was talking about the city of maripol where 20% would fight for the russians, 20% for the ukraines would leave.

it's starting to sound here like it is in washington. washington has said here's how it's going to play out. you could have commanders in this region to -- that has happened. you could have a false flag attack. there is word of a false flag attack. so if you were suspicious and you have kids or you have elderly parents and you don't want to stay and fight, it's starting to sound as real here as it has in washington and i think that is a new development. >> tell me whether this graphic nature of what general mccaffrey described at the top of this hour, of ground war and of russian intelligence officials already in kyiv. what that means for that country. what are they bracing for? >> it's horrifying. i've covered wars and you know, some folks will stay and fight, but people will flee. if there's a wide scale invasion, and it's not happened and nobody is fleeing yet, but

there will be artillery and air strikes ahead of time. they will hit civilians because civilians live here and millions will be on the move. you have the foreign minister say today here in ukraine, it's a new world order. if there is a wide scale invasion, it's hard to see how it's not a new world order. i'm closer to poland than kyiv. 90 kilometers way, there are 90,000 u.s. troops. normally, we don't talk about forward movements. we don't talk about operational security issues. where folks are deployed. we know almost exactly where they're deployed and how many there are and that's a message to russia. in many ways, that's a new world order, especially if your viewers will know that in the last administration, we were talking as a country, or at least the former president trump was talking about the usefulness of nato. >> general, i'd like to ask you to respond to that. we've talked about this since

we've been on the air today. several ex chiefs of staff to the ex-president would say or have said their greatest accomplishments were keeping trump in exiting nato. pick up on cal's reporting about the proximity of our nato allies and u.s. troops. >> well, we've clearly got enormous naval and air power that can be moved into the region rapidly. attack helicopters come in. the f-35s are starting to move into the region. some of it is symbolic, but the important one parachutes deploying to the baltic states. we're telling putin if this expanded to an article five action, we will fight and from the first hour, you'll be facing u.s. ground and air forces. that's a great deterrent message. we're clearly not going to fight in ukraine.

i don't think we really are needed. the u.s. military, to deal with the millions of refugees, which cal clearly and correctly says will be fleeing ahead of a major outbreak in ground combat. but the nato alliance has started to come together. the germans have partially disarmed. they're not a great military presence. they used to be in the 1980s. the french don't still have significant military capabilities, so does the u.k. putin's put russia in a streejics, vulnerable position. for god's sake, his economy is less than that of apple's annual revenue. this is not a great power. he's modernized his nuclear forces, but he has very little strategic naval and air power. so he's making a big mistake on the verge of it and i think the

biden administration properly has brought people together to try and deter him from taking the next step. looks to me like it's about to go down in the very near future. >> matt, "the new york times" over the weekend had some front page reporting on really reporting out putin's instability. two years of isolation, only meeting with people across a larger than normal table and now what the general is describing as horrific, strategic choices that he has made for his country. i'm guessing the story being told on state tv is very different. explain. >> that's correct. i mean, we've seen quite a show. you just have to imagine it's choreographed. it all kind of fits together far too well, really. a week basically since we first

saw the russian state media flip the switch. putin start to really get out and sell the narrative on what's going on. we saw the evacuations from the two breakaway states last friday. by monday, you had putin convening this really, really surreal taped session by the way of his national security council, about two dozen or so advisers where he sat on one side of a large room where they're arrayed like school children in an assembly hall asking them to stand up one by one and sound off on whether they would support the recognition of donetsk and luhansk as independent states. they all did it. a few seemed to waiver, but they were pointed in the right direction by putin and they ran this on state television. they've run this on state television by the way not long after they ran video messages from the heads of luhansk and

donetsk asking for recognition and the night ended with now i would say the infamous speech, where putin essentially laid out a deeply paranoid and grievance filled view about the west. about addressing what he saw as a laundry list of wrongs committed against russia that need to be addressed. and he really kind of whittled away methodically at the idea of the concept of ukrainian state hood and left it at saying russia created ukrainian. this is russian territory. and ukraine is now a threat to russia. it points to a man who has a very specific read of russian history, ukrainian history. i brought up the security council meeting because it also paints a picture of a man who's very isolated. it's historically not a great mixture. >> matthew, let me ask you about this protection of the show. the stage craft and everything's

taped, nothing's live. russian people are dupes. do they see through it? are they convinced by him? tell me the mood of the russian people and if there are any divisions or what the divisions look like among his own population. >> it was an interesting moment. i think it's really just setting in for russians now that this is not just something the western intelligence agencies have been making up that have been supercharged by the western media and leaders. there's this sense now that their leadership, and i can't speak for all of them, but it's something i've felt in conversations i've felt, this sense of this resignation that something serious is happening that they may not have direct control of. we've seen some polling that put out numbers like 73% approval for recognition of these two regions, but the conversation is different now.

the mood is different. it's no longer a joke. this is starting i think the sink in for russians that something is happening and of course we still don't know what specifically is going to happen. all the indicators are negative, but there is starting to become a little bit of a sense of anxiety. especially in circles that we're very much in denial. the moscow analytical community is kind of now you know reckoning, facing the facts of what their president has said. the stakes he's laid out. and it's just, it's a very different mood than it was a week ago. >> so interesting. jeremy, sort of put on your most senior staffer, the most senior staffer at the pentagon, the rules they had and tell me what's happening in those agencies. >> first at the pentagon,

undoubtedly the focus is on the u.s. force posture. how we can ensure our forces are postured in the european theatre to maximize the deterrence against putin so he doesn't take one step into nato territory. as general mccaffrey referenced, there have been a number of troop movements the joint staff is orchestrating along with the supreme allied commander of europe who commands all forces for the united states in the european theatre and is the nato commander. that's the dominant issue at the pentagon. with respect to the intelligence community, they're scrutinizing every piece of information they can get their hands on from clandestine reporting, human reporting, signal reporting, overhead imagery, to understand the exact posture of russian forces, but also what are the regime intentions. what is putin thinking. who has influence in his inner szeryk l and what is going to be to the game plan as they move into kyiv. i want to note this is going to

be an enduring mission for the defense department for months. maybe even years. i mean, if you think about what general mccaffrey described in terms of this swallowing up the country whole, there's nothing that's going to eject the russian forces in the near term from ukraine unless they decide to leave for themselves, they're going to be there for a while. which means we're going to have maintain this heightened posture. which means the united states is going to have to be focused on essentially a second cold war. people don't like those terms, but we are entering this phase of a second cold war. there's going to be a line of control. the nato country's line. we're going to have to have a massive military build up. we'll be superpower and russia will be a weaker power, but weaker power can be very dangerous just as much as a strong power, so this is going to be an enduring feature for a very long time. >> okay. mind blown.

jeremy and general barry mccaffrey. to cal and matt, thank you. please, please, please stay safe over there. we're very grateful to you. thank you for staying there for us. when we come back, president biden is zeroing in on his nominee for the united states support. when he will announce his decision. that's next. suorppt. when he will announce his decision that's next.

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president biden homing in on his supreme court pick, narrowing down his short list to three final candidates. federal judges brown jackson and michelle childs and leondra krueger. the white house has said president biden will make his pick known by monday, one day before the state of the union address. joining us now, former assistant u.s. attorney, maya wily and joyce vance. these folks have been talked about since the seat became open. i wonder your thoughts since it's now officially these three. >> my first thought is that it's excitement. it's so deeply meaningful to bringing not just intellect to the court, but an intellect with a common sense experience about what the lives of so many people are that these decisions touch.

it also shows that the president has made a decision to zero in on candidates who are currently sitting on a court. right. two of them on federal courts and one, california supreme court. that doesn't mean the other candidates are not highly qualified and able to do it, but it may signal he believes that is the best route for a nominee, an historic nominee. when we have heard attacks against these candidates even before their formally nominated. in general. just attacks against them. because he said he wanted to make sure he had a supreme court that looked like the country and reflected the experiences of her people. all i can say is i am tremendously excited. >> and the white house i think still believes that all three of these women should garner bipartisan support. i don't want to ask you to do any horse racing or handicapping, but can you just tell us a little bit about each

of these three justices? >> yeah, they're fascinating because they are also very different from one another. i mean, obviously, you have a judge brown jackson who was a public defender, which is a very different profile. but she also has over seven years on the federal bench so she's a seasoned juris. childs, what's interesting is she does not come from ivy league schools. she has a long history on the bench as well and was up for a circuit court appointment. and with justice krueger, who actually served in a very high position in a solicitor general's office of the department of justice, so she has that federal government experience as well as sitting on such an important court in such a large and important state. so these are all very different

candidates, but they are all so incredibly impressive and qualified and any single one of them would be an exciting addition to the bench. >> i don't have to tell either of you this, but any one of them will join supreme court in crisis. it's approval rating among the public is 20%, percentage points lower than it was in the year 2000 after many americans on all sides saw the supreme court as basically putting itself in the middle of a presidential election. it is 20% less popular now than then. i wonder, joyce, if you can just speak to this moment and what this nominee will step into? >> well this nominee clearly will step into the breach on the court. this is the most divided we've ever seen the court. we've even had these spillover sort of arguments about the wearing of masks that have become public.

so the court represents i think where america is. it's politicized. it's divided. and whether that's the actual reality of what goes on inside of the building, that's the public appearance. of course, that perception is what's been so damaging to public confidence in the court. this gives the court a little bit of an opportunity to reset. that happens every time you have a new justice who joins the court and this will clearly be a very different sort of justice. as you said, nicolle, the white house believes that any of these nominees is a judge who would be able to command bipartisan support because there are senators even on the republican side of the aisle who typically their practice is that they will vote to confirm a qualified nominee. lindsey graham is on the record having said that on many occasions. they're all well qualified. they bring different experiences. the notion that there will be professional diversity, not just

this spectacular historical moment where the first black woman becomes a member of the supreme court, but also their jurisprudence, this notion that one of the nominees comes out of the solicitor general's office, commands the respect of the court. yet another one has federal defender experience. another would bring a very different view of the law, coming from a part of the country that's underrepresented on the court. no matter what happens, this is a moment for reset. the question is, will it make any substantive decisions on the court different and that seems very unlikely with this 6-3 super conservative majority at the moment. >> while i have you, i need to ask you what we should read into the resignations of two very skilled and high profile prosecutors on the criminal case looking at donald trump's businesses. joyce, do you have any insights into what happened there? >> i think that in some ways,

this is a straightforward read, nicolle. it's very clear that this case was drawing to a close. the grand jury presentation with the grand jury due to expire in april. two prosecutors, one of whom had come out of retirement. highly respected, lots of defense experience. which matters when you're looking at this kind of case. you want somebody with a defense perspective who will beat town down the case and point out its flaws, but it seems in this situation, the two prosecutors were ready to indict. the new district declined to commit to let them get that result so they have now resigned. i think it's important to say that people can look at a case, particularly this kind of a case that turns on intent in a fraud situation and reach different results. people of good faith can look at the evidence and come out different ways, but when you've got two prosecutors who have been in the grand jury, who have looked at the witnesses, who

have seen the whites of their eyes as they testify, those are the folks who know the case the best. so i think we'll learn more about this, but it is a discouraging development for people who believe the former president must be held accountable for at least some of his wrong doing. >> maya, last word. >> my hope is that this is not over. that this is something that will be revisited. we still have the state attorney general's process moving forward and she's gaining evidence. she's going to be deposing the president and his children. that is something that i think should suggest whether or not there will be a continuing path. >> and we will look out for those. they're not always the most willing to share in the moment, but we hope to hear from them eventually. thank you so much for joining us today. when we come back, washington, d.c. is bracing for the same kind of trucker protests that have snarled canada's capital city for weeks

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our country's capitol. 700 national grard troops will assist with handling traffic in anticipation of the protests which will attempt to copycat those that protested against the government of justin trudeau's covid restrictions and mask mandates. within the u.s., the protesters have become more than just anti-covid, according to researchers, the conversations are much broader and include baseless claims that the 2020 presidential election was stolen from ex president donald trump, falsehoods about coronavirus and pushback related to how students are taught about race and racism and myths about human trafficking, the fox news prime time rundown. let's bring in correspondent garrett haake. so, it is good that it is not about the vaccine mandate because d.c. doesn't have one. tell us what is happening and why? >> reporter: right. and the man dates are being rolled back across country as we speak and that may be part of the reason that these convoys

haven't really exactly taken off just yet. at least not the way they have in canada. look, nicolle, as a reporter it is hard to figure out how seriously to take these reports of convoys. today is a good example. we had one covered by d.c. local media that was supposed to come here from today and it was one guy in a semi-truck and six or other people following him in pickups and corolla driving around the beltway. and a group left california today but they're not expected to get to d.c., if they get here, until well after the state of the union. as a reporter, i've got the luxury of some time to figure out how to take it seriously, but the capitol and the d.c. police don't have that luxury. post january 6, they're taking it extremely seriously, part of the reasons you see the trucks over my shoulder ready to block incoming traffic around the capitol. >> well, i guess i have a couple

of follow-up questions for you. i mean, there were trump supporters in trucks running biden/harris buses off the road in anticipation of the general election and trump supporters and trucks are kind of a thing. there is also an insurrection that took place behind you. what sort of dots are being connected between a hallmark of sort of trumpism and a deadly event that happened behind where you're standing? >> reporter: i think the challenge here is this, this is a good test for the capitol police and intel to listen to what is out there and decide what is a real threat and what the kind of background chatter sort of low grade talk about violence that has existed going back years, existed around january 6 and existed since. not more than a few months have gone by that i haven't been reporting sometimes on this show about a bomb threat at the capitol or somebody getting arrested with guns at the capitol or the attack that happened on good friday of last

year here at the capitol. so violence around and connected to the capitol hasn't ever stopped really in any meaningful sense after january 6. it is not like it was that day. but the capitol police are always dealing with some kind of threat and it doesn't take 50 truckers in semis to bring it here. it could take one person with a mind to cause trouble to do so and i think that is the background challenge that all of these different law enforcement agencies are facing as they look ahead particularly to next week and to the state of the union. >> you know, we all got to know folks like d.c.'s head of homeland security and ned harland saying that the hospital should have blood to prepare for a mass casualty event on january 6 and you look back at 9/11, dick clark is the example there. who are the people in charge of making sure that they are listened to this time?

>> reporter: well, look, i think where i stand now, it is going to be the new capitol police chief tom manger who has put his reputation and his effort news making sure that the capitol police is an intelligence organization not just like your local police force back home. also i think it is d.c. authorities, it is the d.c. ems, and mayor bowser who again in the lead up to january 6 warned people in d.c. to stay home and not come downtown because they knew that, you know, that there was risks of violence on that day. i think the challenge, again, here is separating the violence from the noise. think about the event in september here of last year, the justice protest for january 6 folks, that turned out to be less of a thing. figuring out how to warn people without crying wolf is the challenge for law enforcement as it relates to next week. >> garrett haake, it is safe to say you'll have a very busy 7

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thank you so much for letting us into your homes during these extraordinary times, it is great to be back. "the beat with ari melber" tarts right now. >> thank you for the toss. i'm ari melber and we're reporting on a big development out of the new york criminal case against the trump organization, both under investigation, i'm going to get to that with legal experts. but we begin with the escalating tensions between the russia and ukraine. the pentagon said that russia has all abilities to launch