>> dan deluce, clint watts, admiral stavridis, i'm grateful for your time this morning. i know it is early, it has been a long night and it will be a long day. "morning joe" starts right now. ♪♪ condemn the aggression that you launch on my people. there is no purgatory for war criminals, they go straight to hell, ambassador. >> they go straight to hell. ukraine's ambassador to the united nations with that message to russia's leadership as russia launches an unprovoked invasion of a sovereign nation. >> the lamps are going out all over europe. we shall not see them lit again in our lifetime, so sir edward gray lamented to a friend right before britain's entry into

world war i. this morning the pronouncements are less shakespearean. instead, "the washington post" writes of a ukrainian teen ager calling his girlfriend, you need to get up, the war has begun. as citizens of this besieged european nation scramble for atm machines, gas and grocery supplies, russian troops are coming ever closer to their cities and their homes an they're invading with rockets and raining across the country. as vladimir putin puts his own country in jeopardy economically and politically in a vein glorious effort to reconstruct an evil empire that killed 30 million of its own people before its own demise. now the only question is how will america and the west respond to this brutish use of power. >> the attack began early in the morning about 5:00 a.m. local time from neighboring belarus. moscow's ally, with explosions

in several cities across ukraine including the capital kyiv. air raid sirens rang out across kyiv and ukrainian forces reported ballistic missiles targeted military control centers. dozens of ukrainian soldiers have been killed so far, officials say mostly from airstrikes and rocket launches. ukrainian president zelenskyy declared martial law, closing schools and placing hospitals on high alert. there was a mass exodus as thousands tried to flee. the invasion began just minutes after russian president vladimir putin said in a public address that he authorized military action because the west had pushed too far in trying to draw the country into nato. he also warned other countries against any retaliation, saying, quote, the response from russia will be so severe that no foreign nations have ever

experienced it before. all decisions have been made. willie. >> president biden spoke to president zelenskyy of ukraine last night, and this morning president biden will meet with g7 leaders. he says he will announce new sanctions against russia this afternoon. the statement from the president reads in part, the prayers of the buyer world are with the people of ukraine tonight as they suffer an unprovoked and unjustified attack by russian military forces. president putin has chosen a premeditated war that will bring a catastrophic loss of life and human suffering. russia alone is responsible for the death and destruction this attack will bring and the united states and its allies and partners will respond in a united and decisive way. the world will hold russia accountable. a statement from president joe biden. joining us now from ukraine, nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel. richard, what does it look like on the ground there this morning? >> reporter: so there have been

airstrikes and what appear to be missile strikes in numerous parts of the country, mostly targeting military facilities. i think we are still in the early hours of what could be a long campaign. i'm in the southeast and there has not been much damage in the center of the city, but i just came from the edge of the city, and a military communications facility had been struck, the military satellite dish was smoldering and tipped over. the ukrainian military has just put out more video that it says are russian attack helicopters attacking a military installation outside of kyiv. according to the ukrainian president zelenskyy, the attack which began eight hours ago came from three different locations, from north from belarus, from the east where russia had troops built up on the border, and from

the south. here in maripol there is an uneasy calm. people are clearly nervous. the government has imposed a state of emergency, calling it martial law. many people are lining up for gas, lining up at atms, crowding into supermarkets, but we have seen also more ukrainian troops and tanks pulled closer into the city. so for now it seems that the major urban centers in this country are still under government control and at this point in time the airstrikes carried out by russia and at least one helicopter strike have all been on military facilities. >> richard, stay with us. we want to turn to nbc news senior international correspondent keir simmonds in moscow. keir, for weeks the world has wondered will vladimir putin do it and if he does it how will he do it. we learned last night, yes, he is happy to cross that line and that he has gone big in the early hours here.

>> reporter: that's right. just picking up on what richard was saying there, the kremlin spokesman just now briefing russian journalists and he has just said that russia's goal is to, quote, neutralize ukraine's military potential. so question marks through the morning about exactly what the russian aim is here. clearly we need to take these things with a pinch of salt because, bluntly, there have been so many lies. right now demitri peskov saying it is the goal. i suppose you could say it appears to fit with what is reported by correspondents on the ground like richard that it is military targets that are being hit. in fact, on russian television military leaders are telling the russian public and have been telling the russian public that all morning. russians woke up here, willie,

to the state tv replaying president putin's announcement. but i have to tell you, i have been out on the streets of moscow this morning to speak to ordinary russians. they are stunned. many of them did not expect this, even despite the messaging from the kremlin. there were people coming up to us to try to tell us how upset they were. take a listen. >> it is a disaster. i don't approve it. i don't like it and i don't want it to be like that at all. >> i'm scared. i'm scared of this situation because i'm afraid that something will happen here and i'm afraid of people who live in ukraine. >> reporter: you're afraid for them? >> yes, i have some relatives there and i'm afraid of them. >> it is horrible, yeah. it is horrible. it should be done by diplomatic way. >> reporter: we should just be clear, clearly, willie, russians who speak english are more

likely, i think you could say, to be opposed to this action. the one man spoke to us in russian said that he was in favor of it, but i think don't underestimate how shocked the russians are. one more point before i leave you. at banks the dollars have run out in many parts of moscow. we are hearing from one of our producers here, joe, that the dollars have run out. what that tells you is that russians are really frightened for their economy, they're frightened for watching the ruble plunge in value. they're going to try to get dollars and they're not able to find them in some of the banks. that may be an indication that president putin still struggling to bring his country with him on this. >> thank you, keir. richard engel, let me ask you. what is the mood of the troops you've been reporting on the front lines in ukraine? >> reporter: they were bracing for this and they knew this was coming.

some people were living in a kind of suspended disbelief that it wouldn't happen, that vladimir putin wouldn't go all the way, that he would go deterred, but i think starting yesterday and the day before when we saw a dramatic increase in the fire from the russian-backed separatists, many of the troops that i spoke to thought that russia was preparing the ground, that it was softening its targets. i think at this early stage we are still seeing that. there was not a massive shock-and-awe campaign like some u.s. officials anticipated. there was a devastating cyberattack. there haven't been the beach assaults that some people had been speculating. so it seems at this stage that the russian military is still probing. it is knocking out communications. it is knocking out the military's ability to defend the country and launch a counterattack potentially. but the soldiers do believe that this is still an early phase and

you have been seeing -- i was watching just this morning the soldiers are mobilizing, they're setting up more check points, they're trying to maintain civil order, and they're also on the lookout for sleeper cells. they are very nervous that russia could have organized or infiltrated groups of locals who are sympathetic who could suddenly come out and try to carry out acts of sabotage or try to take control of the streets. >> so, richard, i guess my question is regarding their attitudes. there's been some question as to whether they will actually fight the russians when they come in. can you tell me what their attitude was toward that resistance? is there a sense of determination, that they are going to push back on the russians, or do you expect a speedy retreat? >> well, it depends what the russians throw at them so far. so far we have been seeing airstrikes, missile strikes,

some helicopter assaults but we have not seen, at least as far as i'm aware, the full-on tank-to-tank battles that could be coming quite soon. i think we will have to see what happens then when the ukrainians are not just facing airstrikes at military facilities on the outskirts of cities but when they are facing the full brunt of a russian ground offensive. but many soldiers i have spoken to are committed. they do want to fight. they realize that their nation is at stake. vladimir putin made it very clear that his goal is to topple the government, which he describes as fascist and neo-nazi, and ukrainians are determined to -- the ukrainian military, i should say, is determined to the best of its ability to keep this going. but ukraine's foreign minister has called for more sanctions and more weapons for the troops, and just a short while ago

president zelenskyy said there are injured soldiers in hospital and he called for a national -- he issued a national appeal for people to donate blood. >> keir simmonds, yesterday madeleine albright, the former secretary of state, wrote an invasion will leave russia diplomatically isolated, economically crippled and strategically vulnerable. that's been the clear-eyed assessment of most western diplomats, western leaders and western observers. this is an attack that does not make sense economically for russia, diplomatically for russia, and, quite frankly, in the long run militarily for russia. so it has caused a great deal of concern in the west that putin would move forward against his own long-term interests. i'm curious, have you picked any of that up in moscow from any military officials, any government officials, from any

leaders, that concern? >> reporter: well, joe, i have just been handed more of what dimitri peskov, the kremlin spokesman, has been saying in his briefing to journalists in the past few minutes, in the past hour. i'm just looking down to read it for myself. he is saying no one talks about occupation. this word does not apply here. so clearly, again, the russians saying they don't plan to try to occupy ukraine. again, just repeating, russia's aim is neutralization of ukraine's military potential, and then kind of cip talally saying a country like russia cannot fall behind the iron curtain. well, okay, but we clearly know the kinds of sanctions and economic implications that have been threatened and are very likely now for russia. i just reiterate, one thing we have been talking about, joe, in

the fast few mornings has been the impact on russia. one thing we haven't talked about is the economic fall-out. the stock exchange here in russia had to be suspended in the early hours of the morning. as i mentioned the ruble is falling. what will it do to the russian economy. frankly the uncertainty and the uncertainty of how the war will play out. what will it do to the russian economy and to the views of ordinary russians? then, of course, will that leave president putin feeling more vulnerable and perhaps threatened? i will mention one thing i found chilling in president putin's statement which, again, has been replayed on russian television through the morning because we are talking about the threats of sanctions from the west. president putin in that speech talked about russia's nuclear capability and then went on to say russia has advantages in the -- has some advantage and the latest types of weapons.

he says in this regard no one should have any doubt that a direct attack on russia will lead to defeat and dire consequences for potential aggressors. that appeared to be president putin mentions russia's nuclear capability and threatening western leaders. just before the beginning of this military operation we did hear from the french, who obviously have had a good deal of contact from -- with president putin and one french official describing him as erratic. a close contact with president putin has said that he will be ahead of this operation, very much in charge. i think in that sense we kind of depend on that he is acting rationally, that is something that we depend on even though what is happening right now for many russians looks pretty

irrational. >> well, and what you have just underlined is the grave concern here along with the invasion of ukraine that makes absolutely no sense, is the erratic nature of this attack and his continued use of a nuclear threat, which he and russian state tv and russian diplomats have been doing for the past two months. >> and so far his threats seem to be coming to fruition. nbc's keir simmons in moscow and nbc's richard engel reporting from southeast ukraine. thank you both. we will be checking back in with you. >> be safe. >> throughout the morning. let's bring in the president of the council on foreign relations, richard haass. former u.s. ambassador to rurk, now director for the institute for international studies at stanford and an nbc news international affairs analyst michael mcfaul. and former nato supreme allied commander, retired four star navy admiral james stavridis, chief international and security

analyst for nbc news. >> ambassador, let's begin with you and pick up where we left off on the erratic nature of vladimir putin, the erratic nature of this attack, the illogical nature of this attack. i quoted madeleine albright who said that it will leave russia economically and strategically vulnerable. all of these things are fairly obvious. this is an irrational attack. one european country invading another european country in 2022. and his response to that attack and any threats is, do not defend ukraine, i will employ nuclear weapons. he has been saying that for the past few months. they've said it on state tv about reducing the west to ashes. you have had diplomats making the same threats. this is not by any stretch of the imagination a rational man even by the old soviet communist

standards when -- >> exactly. >> -- we actually had back channels and there was some rhyme and some reason to what the old soviet empire did. >> i agree. it is tragic. it is irrational. it is also evil. let's just call it for that. there is good and evil in the world, and this is an evil act. you know, i have been saying this forever, joe. i mean i hate to say this, but, you know, my last call with "the washington post" was putin does not think like we do. we keep thinking he is going to do some cost-benefit analysis, think how sanctions might affect the prices, bear bank and stock market next week, but that's how vladimir putin is. he has proven it today on this incredibly tragic day. it is erratic, it is irrational. i actually think it will come back to haunt him.

i think -- overreacted in afghanistan after a series of wins in the '90s. i think it will come at a terrible price and cost to the ukrainian people, and i do not think there is rationality there. he is motivated by crazy ideas, i want to emphasize that. i listened to his speech on monday. i listened to his speech last night. he is talking about de-nazification. there is no nazis in ukrainian. he is a democratically elected leader, he is jewish, not a nazi. i'm sorry i'm so emotional, but we have to get over that we can deal with this guy as a cost-benefit analysis.

we have to treat him as leader who attacks ukrainian. >> we also heard from president zelenskyy addressing his nation yesterday, but speaking to the people of russia as well and making a last-ditch plea with them to tell putin, to tell their government, we don't want war with ukraine, we don't want war with our neighbor. you have led nato troops as supreme allied commander, you know europe very well. what is putin's objective here? richard engel said so far it doesn't quite look like shock and awe, but it is the early hours here. what would you expect to see next and to what end for vladimir putin? what does he want here? >> well, i'm with mike mcfaul. i think we all to listen to vladimir putin, go back and read his speech from last night. what he is after is essentially occupying ukraine. i find it laughable his spokesman this morning is saying there's no intent to occupy. that's the 975th lie that's come out of the kremlin going back

to, we're not going to invade. clearly he intends to subjugate ukraine. i think it is the beginning of a significant campaign and it is starting as a military planner would put it together, which is to say take out the air defense systems, take out the command and control, terrify the population to put a huge refugee burden on the outgoing government, terrify the international community. if that's not shock and awe, i don't know what is. i think the next thing you are going to see are going to be pretty serious movements of troops and tanks led by -- and there go the air raid sirens in real-time. we are watching the history channel unfold in real-time here, by the way. we are on a rocket ride back to the 1930s. >> geez. richard haass, you have a piece out, the west must show putin just how wrong he is to choose

war, but so far, so far he is listen to no one. all predictions of just how bad things can be are coming true. what is the worst option at this point and what can the u.s. do? >> well, the worst option, mika, is to allow mr. putin to succeed with his unwarranted, unjustified, illegal, immoral war of choice. there was no necessity that russia do what he has now done, but it is not axiomatic, what madeleine albright and others have been saying will come to pass. that's our challenge now. we need now a response of necessity to his war of choice, and there has to be to raise the economic costs at home, to raise the military costs on the ground. i hate to be so blunt, but, you know, the most vulnerable thing that putin is vulnerable to is dead russian soldiers so we have to make sure ukraine has the means to resist. we have to raise the political costs at home. we have to reach out to russian

journalists, to russian civil society to begin to try to influence what goes on back there. diplomatically we need to isolate russia. we can't do a lot in the security council, we saw that last night. reach out to china, see if we can bring daylight between russia and china. we need to think about it with every tool we have but history offers comfort. wars of choice like this one often begin well but end badly. we saw it for the united states, we saw it for russia in afghanistan. the two keys are, one, to raise the costs on the ground for the invading country and, two, to build opposition at home, to basically feed the weariness and wariness of the home population. that's what we need to do here. >> admiral stavridis, we have tried diplomacy all along. we were concerned it was going

to fail. the french, the germans, everyone in nato has tried diplomacy. it is not going to work here. we have known that but you still have to do that with a nuclear power. so we have entered into a new phase. if the united states and nato wants to throw everything they have at vladimir putin short of sending american troops into ukraine and starting world war iii, what do we do? >> you start by fully activating what is called the nato response force. this is about 30,000 troops, airmen, seamen, soldiers obviously. you flood them forward to the borders of the alliance. look, if you are waking up in europe this morning i hope you are a member of nato. you want to be inside this alliance this morning. by the way, if you are waking up in stockholm, sweden or helsinki, finland, two very capable nations that are outside of the alliance, i would be thinking about how quickly can i

get inside this alliance. what the alliance will do this morning, joe, in brussels, the north atlantic council will hold sessions. all of the military leaders will convene. my successor, general todd walters, will be talking to all of the counterpart leaders in the military. i think you are going to see nato bring that nato response force right up to the borders of the alliance, not as an act of war. i like richard haass's phrase. it is a response of necessity. we need to show putin what the alliance is capable of, and doing that in the air, on the sea, moving our ships forward, and our troops to the border to me makes a lot of sense. i will close by saying, you know, putin is going to look pretty powerful and pretty strong as he rolls over for the third time a very weak neighbor militarily. but, you know, the alliance outspends russian ten-to-one in

military spending, we outnumber him in troops on the ground three to four to one. we have thousands more capable aircraft, many more warships. he is not going to try to cross a nato border in anger. this is the moment to emphasize that point with him. i think it will help clarify his mind as he deals with the consequences of what is going to happen inside ukraine. >> as the admiral has been speaking the secretary general of nato said this. peace on our continent has been shattered. we have war in europe on a scale and type we thought belonged to history. ambassador mcfaul, you know vladimir putin, you sat across from vladimir putin, you understand this man. more sanctions we hear are coming from president biden, from the united states. i suspect it will not have putin call the troops home from ukraine. what will get his attention? what can nato do? what can the west do? what can the united states do to prevent this from becoming as bad as so many people are predicting it can be?

>> well, first of all what admiral stavridis just said i support 100 percent. we want to make sure mr. putin understands any attack on any nato ally is an attack on all of us, and we want to make sure that goes to a zero probability event. number two, i hope and expect that president biden and the free world will today -- today, not weeks from now, but today impose the most intense sanctions on russia ever. there's no waiting, no incrementalism, it has to be everything today. shock and awe in terms of economic sanctions. number three, we need to massively, massively increase our military and humanitarian medical assistance to ukraine today. just a few hours ago i was on a zoom call with many ukrainian friends. we have been training ukrainians

here at stanford for decades. one said something soberly. i am ready to fight, i bought my kit, but my knee pads aren't very good. there's a shortage of knee pads in ukraine because you will be on your knees when shooting. i hate to sound so blunt but he said, send us more knee pads, mike. we have to do everything we can to supply the military, first and foremost. i worry they're going to run out of ammunition, they're going to run out of stingers, they're going to run out of javelins. that will give the russian army an advantage. we have to do everything we can to support those that are fighting on their own because at the end of the day it is fantastic we have nato. thank god we expanded nato, this incredibly stupid debate we've had for the last several weeks. imagine a europe without nato expanded. that's great, but as one of my

ukrainian friends e-mailed me a little while ago, mike, i can't believe we are facing this -- alone. at the end of the day the ukrainians are fighting putin alone. we have to do whatever we can to help them in the fight. >> how important is it for us, admiral stavridis, just as ambassador mcfaul said i'm sure we will all agree here, the sanctions get put in place can't be incremental? we have tried that. i understand why we tried it and i think any reasonable, rational leader would have tried that, but just as we have to implement every tool that we have in our tool kit in terms of sanctions today, how important is it today that we start the movement of our troops into our nato allies' countries, into poland, into estonia, into every country that we can that is close to russia

and that borders ukraine? >> it is vital. i think you will see that. you know, the nato alliance often gets knocked for a lot of bureaucracy, a lot of committees, a lot of talk, talk, talk. it can also move very, very fast. i think you are going to see that. you are going to see troops, tanks, armor, warships, all of it flowing toward those russian borders. again, give putin what he doesn't want here, which is an expanded, unified, serious nato all around its borders. defensive, of course, but show it to putin and show it to him today ought to be part of our strategy. just to add on to what ambassador mcfaul said, in addition to the massive aid, humanitarian and military, we ought to be helping the zelenskyy government plan its next steps. do they have satellite phones? what kind of convoy protection

do they have if they have to move out of kyiv? do they have a setup in lviv? do they know where they can form a government in exile as charles de gaulle did for france in the second world war? how are we going to finance that government in exile. richard haass and michael mcfaul talked about it. it is to have ukrainians know they have a functioning ukrainian government. that zelenskyy team has to be protected and they have to be capable of setting in place the resistance and directing it. >> you know, richard haass, the chinese have a decision to make. obviously china is having trouble economically. they're struggling with covid, bad outbreak in hong kong. they have very little

resistance. it is going to sweep across the country. they're not in position to flex their muscles right now and they have a choice to make. they can either get in bed with a country that has a gdp that's smaller than the state of texas or they can side with the united states and our allies in the eu who have a $40 trillion -- between us $40 trillion in gdp. it is $40 trillion to russia's $1.5 trillion. yet this morning china's foreign minister refused to call the actions invasion and rejected a comparison to thaiwan. they called on all parties to maintain restraint. i understand the game of try angulation that russia and china are playing right now, but you look at it economically, you look where china is economically, you look at where

china is with covid, it doesn't seem to be a wise play, especially since they are trading partners with ukraine. by the way, side note, please respond to this, too. israel, also a country whose neck this country has stuck its -- a country who we've stuck our neck out for since 1948 refusing to condemn russia, refusing to call this an invasion. talk about china, talk israel. >> china wants to have it both ways. like they often do in these situations, joe, is they abstain. you're right, we ought to basically force them to take sides. what russia has done, let's just be clear, it has violated china's, not just the world but china's most basic tenet of international relations which is noninterference in the internal affairs of other countries. has been a basic of chinese foreign policy since 1949, since the end of their civil war. so normally they would oppose it. plus think about it, think of

the precedent for taiwan, which is what the chinese are nervous about. imagine someone decided to recognize a movement by taiwan to be independent, apart from the rest of china. that's just what russia did in recognizing these republics in eastern ukraine. china has to be uneasy. we want to tell china it is going to make a bad situation worse in terms of our bilateral relationship if you come out wrong, plus you will be caught up in bad sanctions. if you keep doing business with russia as normal sanctions will hit china. that's the last thing china needs coming out of covid at a time their growth rates are one-third what they used to be a decade ago. we ought to have a heart-to-heart with china but talk about the possibilities shoe horning them away from

russia. israel sees china as the most important country in the middle east. the united states no longer plays the role. israel is concerned about russian jews and they have to be careful. we need to tell them it is one of the moments they have to step up. it is fundamental to the united states, it is fundamental to the western world, you are part of the western world, we have to be able to count on you here. >> those conversations have likely intensified given what we have seen in the last eight hours. ambassador mcfaul, before we let you go i want to take a step back for the audience. some cynical politicians have said who cares what happens in ukraine, we have our own problems at home, americans going about their lives are probably saying why is it so important. could you articulate why you believe in this moment it is so important to turn back vladimir putin? why is it a moment in history so worthy of the world's attention?

>> willie, this reminds me of september 1st, 1939 when hitler invaded poland. remember, in the '30s lots of americans said, "why do we care about czechoslovakia? where is poland? this is not our war, this is not our problem." that's what they said, american firsters, an echo of a sentiment we have in this country today. but what has happened now is that it is an assault not just on ukrainian sovereigty. it is an assault on the system of the international order that we created in 1945. if the free world doesn't stand up for independent, democratic free ukraine here, it has consequences all over the world. what richard was just saying about china, it has major consequences all over the world. that's why we have to -- there is good and evil in the world. there is right and wrong in the world, and that's why we have to stand for the right side and for

the non-evil side. that's why we have to stand with independent ukraine. we are not going to go to war over ukraine. the president has made that clear, but we need to do everything else we can to stop putin's evil, illegitimate invasion of this sovereign democratic country. >> so, richard haass, before i came on the air i was surprised, as you know, i have been a long-time supporter of israel. before i came on the air i read a report in "the new york times" israel had not -- was not going to condemn russia, but for the same reasons you said. it is 6:07 a.m., about 30 minutes before, i guess israel decided they weren't going to have it both ways. the russia attack of ukraine is a severe violation of international order. israel condemns the attack and is prepared to provide assistance to ukraine. israel is long experienced in war. the war is not the way to

resolve conflict. >> that's 28 minutes ago. >> yeah, that's 28 minutes ago. obviously israel not calculating, and i suspect, i will say it again about china, i suspect because china is in such a weak position right now, because you look at their gdp, it is falling. you look at the fact that again they are facing the challenges that they're facing, are they really going to side with a country that has a gdp smaller than the state of texas or are they going to side with the united states and the eu and the rest of the world if, in fact, they need their economy kick started? >> quite possibly. again, that's where sanctions could really come in, if the chinese continue to conduct certain types of transactions. my hunch is quickly they will get caught up in sanctions. can i expand on something the ambassador said here, joe, and i totally concur. what is at stake here is the principle that countries ought not to be violating the

sovereigty of others, ought not to be changing borders by force. if there's a tenet of international order, there's that. one other thing. ukrainian was pressured or persuaded to give up their nuclear weapons and what has happened now? they're being invaded. it is a lesson after libya and saddam that giving up your nuclear weapons can be perilous to your health. i do not want countries around the world, such as iran, to fear giving up nuclear weapons, i do not want them to believe that nuclear weapons are guarantee. look what happens to countries when you give them up. we have some though that giving up nuclear weapons does not mean you put your lives, your country at stake. >> president of the council on foreign relations, richard haass. former u.s. ambassador to

russia, michael mcfaul. former nato supreme allied commander, retired four star navy admiral, james stavridis. thank you. up next, stock futures have plunged following the attack of ukraine. stephanie ruhle reports on the economic impact across the word. you are watching "morning joe." we will be right back. "morning. we will be right back.

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and ask how to add securityedge™. or, ask how to get up to a $650 prepaid card. 44 past the hour as we cover this breaking news. president biden it meet with fellow g7 leaders this morning and says he will announce new sanctions against russia this afternoon. joining us now nbc news senior

white house correspondent kelly o'donnell. what are you hearing from administration officials? will he throw the book at them, full-on, all sanctions? >> reporter: we have asked that question, mika, and we have not gotten a response about how far the president wants to go. what we expect is that he is getting briefings. he certainly was overnight and will this morning, having nose direct communications with fellow leaders, and trying to get an assessment of what is happening on the ground. it is a combination of trying to get a sense of what european leaders are prepared to do and then preparing to talk to the american people, probably around noon today, early afternoon we are told. so trying to get an assessment of is this the moment to go as far as possible or do they want to hold some things in reserve with the presumption that putin is not yet finished. clearly there will be another layer of sanctions and trying to bring more economic pain and consequence and cost to putin. part of the challenge for the

president here is to find a way to describe to the american people what is at stake, to put more american resources into this in terms of military equipment, personnel and so forth, bolstering the eastern flank. again, not u.s. personnel inside ukraine but trying to support our partners and allies who are in nato who could become vulnerable depending on what spill-over there could be. always in war there are the unintended consequences and it is not clear exactly how far vladimir putin wants to go. he has not been truthful about his intentions thus far, and clearly now we are in an active, kinetic phase. that's part of it. there will be an economic piece to this that americans will feel in gas prices and there's a larger, sort of existential question about the cost of democracy and what the american people are willing to do as far as supporting a partner like this. it has been a couple of generations since americans have

been tested in this way and being asked to put it in those terms. so there are real leadership challenges for the president to try to get europe on the same page and keep them. of course, it is their neighborhood we are talking about. and also trying to communicate this to the american people. we will be watching all of that closely this morning and as we learn about meetings and phone calls we will bring that to you. >> please do. nbc's kell will kelly o'donnell. thank you. joe, obviously not a lot of time at this point. this is happening all in real-time and there are a lot of options for president biden. what do you think he should do? >> everything. he needs to go all in, everything that we can do. joe biden has said from the very beginning, and any member of congress that suggests otherwise is just being reckless when they say we should send troops into ukraine. anybody that has followed it understands that u.s. troops being introduced into ukraine. >> a world war. >> triggers a world war, triggers world war iii, but we need to do everything short of that.

we need to send as much aid and coordinate aid with nato allies and people outside of nato. if you are a friend of democracy, if you are a friend of freedom, if you are a friend of the united states of america then you are going to help us help our friends in ukraine. secondly, of course the sanctions i understand, and most rational human beings understand why the eu, why nato, why the united states has offered limited sanctions. now everything is on the table. you have to throw absolutely everything at the wall, the harshest sanctions possible. there can be nothing left in reserve. >> no daylight. >> nothing. no daylight. they have invaded ukraine. they are attacking ukraine. so every single sanction that is possible, they need to do it. the third thing is we need to move troops forward. they need to go -- they need to go east, they need to go into

poland, they need to go into estonia, and nato, our nato allies need to show the power of nato. we need to send those troops into every country that we can, as far east as we can. finally, mika, let's face it. people have been saying this for weeks. if vladimir putin wants to run through russia, chances are good that in the opening stages of this war he will be able to run through ukraine. the problem comes after that, as it did with russia when they went into afghanistan. the same thing with the united states, when we went into iraq, when we went into afghanistan, the initial stages went off without a hitch. it was the occupation where we were opened up. >> right. >> and just as the russians tried to undermine us in savings, gist as your father led the efforts to undermine russia when they were in afghanistan in 1979, our allies need to do the

same with russia and ukraine and help the ukrainians help themselves. >> and the fifth thing is messaging this to the american people and why this is of vital interest. this might help. markets are reacting with oil hitting $100 a barrel, the highest since 2014. stock futures fell sharply with dow futures dropping more than 700 points. joining us now senior nbc correspondent and anchor stephanie ruhle. what is going to be the economic impact to americans. >> in the immediate, not so good. the markets, no surprise, are reacting sharply in the negative. the one place you are seeing a positive is obviously gold, a flight to quality. oil is what people are concerned about. the president said two days ago he is very sensitive to the price we are paying at the pump. jen psaki reiterated that last night. brent we saw hit over $100 a

barrel, wti hovering around 95. we have people in california in some places paying $5. beyond that we have to think about the supply chain. we are living in an inflationary environment. inflation is a top concern for the american consumer. this is only going to worsen it because of supply issues. this is not like when china had to shut down their plants, their transportation routes during covid, it was a bigger problem, but it is going to impact the global supply chain and that's a big problem. one other place you have to pay attention is the grocery store. wheat and corn. ukraine and russia are among the biggest exporters of wheat and corn. it is going to impact what we pay at the grocery store and it has americans concerned right now. >> steph, we have another

problem on our hands and that is china. when you look at what is happening in hong kong, a massive outbreak of omicron. that's because they have the zero covid policy. they don't have vaccines that worth. so when you talk about supply chain problems, this war breaking out and you look at what is happening in china, it is the country that's not going to recover for a year or two and it is going to cause chaos to the supply chain. talk about that and what that's going to do for americans as well. >> it absolutely is. remember, we have a labor issue here and this supply chain issue. when you can't get things on the shelves it pushes prices up. the other issue, joe, is when americans see all of the headlines, when they understand what is going on in china and russia it could spook us and we could suddenly say, i'm not going to book that trip, i'm not going to buy all of the things i was planning on. when consumers stop spending that slows economic growth and we need to keep the growth happening.

remember, march is around the corner and the fed is planning to raise interest rates. if consumers stop spending what is it going to do? >> yeah. >> stephanie ruhle, thank you very much for joining us this morning. willie. there are several elements to this attack. before the explosions in ukraine, several of the country's government and banking websites were hit with a cyberattack on wednesday. many of those sites reportedly still are down this morning. ukrainian cybersecurity officials say it was a type of attack that shuts down a network's server, similar to what happened last week when hackers hit ukraine's ministry of defense and local banks. russia has denied involvement but the biden administration believes russian government hackers are responsible for the attacks. joining me now nbc news investigations reporter tom winter. good morning. we have been talking this morning about michael mcfaul about 1939 and the start of another war in europe. obviously something very different now is the element of a cyberattack, which is creating the panic among the people, that

the websites they use don't work, the banking websites don't work, their wi-fi may not be functioning right now. what are we seeing in terms of cyberattacks in ukrainian this morning? >> when you look at the totality of the picture the focus is on images of helicopters and explosions and what you are seeing at different airports there, all of the images we are getting in on social media, but what we have seen leading up to this, the malware attacks, the government websites going down, more importantly the psyche of the ukrainian people and the things that affect them day to day, access to banking accounts, not necessarily losing money but they check the banking account and when it comes back up they see it at zero. we haven't seen that kind of thing. but when trying to get access to your funds, when you need to flee your home, whether or not to buy more supply, when you can't get access and transfer

the funds it has an impact on somebody's psyche. here in the united states, a division of the department of homeland security, they've been putting out warning consistently about this. we are seeing over the past several days here in new york state a new operation center being planned and put into play in brooklyn, a real marriage of the private and public sector, information that's being shared back and forth. i think you are seeing that people really realize there's an entirely new front to war unfortunately here in 2022. >> yeah, tom. as you say, the united states is bracing for cyberattacks as women. it is not just ukraine. what are you seeing in terms of what could happen here and whether russia may be involved with that as well? >> i think the setup, speaking with kelly and stephanie before this, was perfect because between the sanctions expected to be announced around noon or 1:00 today, how does russia respond to that, do they respond to that through some sort of a cyberattack or incident? here they have these advanced

persistent threat actors set up to do these types of things. if they want to pull that lever that's an option for them. also the capital markets here in new york city, you know, the ability to move funds, to trade, what is going on with respect to oil, what is going on with respect to gold, how are those markets operating. when you look at it, you know, we did an interview back on september 11th or leading up to it for the anniversary. the focus for time was afghanistan and terrorism with the nypd. one of the things we talked to them about was cybersecurity, and that's area they're getting involved with. that's an area new york state is paying close attention to. over in new jersey they have a public/private partnership. i get weekly e-mails as far as critical updates to put in play to help the smaller businesses and schools, again, hoping to keep them online so people don't get too concerned at home. >> cyberattacks, obviously something putin has deployed in

the past and a part of the invasion of ukraine as well. nbc's tom winter, thank you for updating us. what does it mean? ukraine's foreign ministry said moments ago the enemy is suffering losses, speaking of russia. we continue to follow this story of war in eastern europe. "morning joe" is back in minutes. "morning joe" is back in minutes. at chevron's el segundo refinery, we're looking to turn plant-based oil into renewable gasoline, jet and diesel fuels. our planet offers countless sources of energy. but it's only human to find the ones that could power a better future.

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declared war, and he is playing with words and you ask me to interpret it? it is lunacy. it is lunacy. absolutely. >> ukraine's ambassador to the u.n. yesterday responding to a reporter as russia's campaign of disinformation spirals into a full-on military assault. >> i just want to talk about the disinformation for a while. you know, willie on the homeland there is a moment when saul is talking to a russian counterpart and he said, i am so sick and tired of your bs. all you ever do is lie. it sounds harsh. but i will tell you, reality, of course, borrows from fix because the russians have been lying every single day, one lie on top of another lie on top of another lie. these are -- we are supposed to believe these are peacekeepers, the world is supposed to believe it is peacekeepers. it is like donald trump telling

lies, he doesn't even believe. i think it is telling that donald trump was saluting putin for his peace keeping lies. it is one lie after another lie after another lie. vladimir putin has proven, despite all of our best efforts, despite the west's best efforts, despite the united states and france and germany's best efforts, he has proven he is going to do exactly what he wants to do. he is going to violate every international norm, every international law, and he is going to lie every step of the way while he's doing it. >> and that's what ambassador mcfaul was saying in our last hour. it is time to stop treating vladimir putin like a rational actor, as if he can be deterred, as if he can be negotiated with, as if a trip to moscow to sit across that long table will somehow prevent war. his mind was made up. to your point about misinformation, western intelligence, specifically american intelligence, has been warning for months that this day was coming.

what did we hear again and again from putin and from the russian government? it is alarmist. this is not going to happen. they're trying to provoke a war. well, here we are. we have a war and it is not because the united states or american intelligence provoked it. it is because vladimir putin had his mind made up a long time ago to do this and we are seeing it right now. one note, joe, you were talking about china in the last hour, this would be a moment of choosing. we are hearing that china has talked to russia's foreign minister and says it understands its decision to protect its security on the border of ukraine. so it appears china at least in the early stages casting its lot with russia. >> well, in so doing china makes yet another short-sighted move that will hurt them in the long run. it is hard to imagine a country making more short-sighted moves over the past year and a half, two years, than the moves china has made. >> unless you are russia. >> well, yeah, unless you are russia. if they want to choose to be on

the side of a country that has a smaller gdp than the state of texas and go up against allies that have 40 times that, that's fine. that's their decision. it is a stupid decision. >> yeah. >> it is short sighted, but you look at what china has been doing over the past few years and i guess it just goes in line. they really don't care if their economy continues to spiral downward. so it is what it is. but, mika, make no mistake of it. russia is going to be able to move with a crude attack straight out of 1956 or 1968. they're going to be able to move across ukraine, much like we moved very quickly across iraq in 2003 and afghanistan in 2001, 2002. the problem, the rub? it comes after that.

this is something, again, this is what is most concern to me. it is not that russia is going to be able to hold ukraine. my greatest concern is as ambassador mcfaul said and as this morning was showing, vladimir putin is not a rational actor. we've known for some time he is not a rational actor. we just didn't know how irrational he was going to be. he continues to threaten nuclear war against anyone who gets in his way. >> right. and the worry is that he won't stop at the full menu of sanctions. despite his lies over the past several weeks his actions have spoken louder than words, and president biden has tried to be transparent about the intelligence he was receiving saying this attack was coming despite what putin says. the attack began early in the morning, about 6:00 a.m. local time from moscow's ally belarus, with explosions in serl cities

across ukraine. air raid sirens rang out across kyiv, and officials reported cruise or ballistic missiles sergeanted control centers. the "new york post" with this headline today, "war in europe." the ""los angeles times"" ukraine under attack. and "the new york times" a photo with the headline "russia attacks as putin warns the word, biden vows to hold him accountable." joining us live from lviv, ukraine, nbc news correspondent cal perry. cal, what are you seeing and hearing on the ground there? >> that tiktok you gave is how the country woke up. that split screen between the u.s. security council meeting, the speech by vladimir putin and explosions reported by my colleague erin mclaughlin happening at once.

here in lviv, in the western part of the city it is quiet but the concern will be quickly a refugee crisis. most of the people in this country will try to flee the fighting. we talk a lot about people that will stay and fight on one side of the other, but majority of the folks will try to flee the fighting. the plan has always been this city, the one i'm in now, lviv, is a fall-back point. it is a fall-back point for the diplomatic missions, it is a fall-back point for the humanitarian missions. we have heard from the international committee of the red cross and irc they're here to help with whatever crisis unfold. the population of kyiv is between 2.5 million and 3 million people. as the airstrikes started and we are startling to receive reports an air field 18 miles from the capital has been taken by russian forces. as the news spread the roads filled up. there was a run on the atm machines. it is all going to raise questions about why the government was for so long was down playing the threat. we heard details from washington what was going to happen and it

wasn't until yesterday when we saw the state of emergency, all of this happening in the shadow of nato. i'm only 90 kilometers from the polish border where u.s. forces have doubled their force and they've said they will set up whatever needs to happen for rfrgs. if you are an american and in ukraine right now you can go to that border and you will be allowed entry into covid even without a covid test. they're dropping the requirement for americans trying to flee ukraine. the question, of course, will be what happens to ukrainian civilians fleeing the fighting. >> that's the question, cal, how are the ukrainian civilians feeling. we are looking at a run on banks here, people taking money out of atms, getting whatever they can. we know they've been under cyberattack a couple of days, so many of their technology, the connection to the outside world is not working at this point. what is the feeling on the ground now that vladimir putin has crossed the line and launched missiles and rolled tanks into a sovereign nation? many observers worry there's no

telling how far he could go. what is the feeling among the people, the ordinary people you are talking to there? >> reporter: i think the feeling has moved from a sense of surprise and shock -- i think there was an understanding or expectation this this would be contained to those eastern-most parts of ukraine. now reality has set in. you walk to the cafes, even though it is normal in lviv, i was out this morning and people are not only talking about that but trying to prepare, whether it is stockpiling food or money or communicating with relatives. this city only has a population of 750,000 and the hotels are already full. you will have a mad dash of civilians trying to get out. again, you know, i think your point is key here. we talk about the fog of war. so many reports that we haven't been able to confirm, so much information that russia is putting out intentionally to frighten civilians here in ukraine, intentionally to get people on the move. that is part of the warfare we are seeing here, that information warfare that is

incredibly effective. when you talk about the cyberattacks, i think anybody can relate having a family, looking at your kids, looking at elderly parents and suddenly not able to get cash out of an atm, not able to get on the road, running out of gas, these are the things people will think about. as people move, it is incredibly destructive. that's the cost of war when you have millions of civilians displaced from their homes with nowhere to go. borders will be shut. this is the reality on the ground here. we often talk about the military aspects of this, but it is so important to remember, 44 million people in this country, the majority of them are civilians. there is a sense here that european history is changing. look, europe went through a refugee crisis of unimaginable proportions in 2015 when you had a million syrian refugees literally change the face of this continent and now we will see that again. >> nbc's cal perry reporting live from western european. thank you, cal. joining us now, the chairman of the renewed democracy initiative, former world chess

champion gary casperov. former chief of staff at the cia and department of defense, nbc news national security analyst jeremy bash is with us. msnbc contributor katty kay live with us in london, and contributor mike barnicle is also with us. welcome to you all. >> under estimating vladimir putin one time after another, george bush looking into his eyes and seeing his soul, barack obama's reset, donald trump saying he trusted vladimir putin more than he trusted his own intel community. now here we have a situation where actually our intel community called it right all along, and still putin moves forward in an extraordinarily irrational way. please give us your insights, your take this morning. >> i don't think that putin is

acting irrationally for him. he has been lying all the time. he has been shedding blood. he has been attacking anyone or any country standing in his way. kasparov. he believes he can get away with it. he believes from his perspective it is a rational move. this parallel has been made many times. he has been preparing this war in plain sight. in 1999 we didn't have technology to monitor the moves to prepare the war, though we knew it was coming. now days it was all in plain sight. it is almost tragic that the free world at the very last moment believed they could negotiate with putin. now we are all paying the price. i'm waiting for a response because we heard many words, but

right now it is time to see action. >> let me ask you. what could have been done before this invasion that was not done? you don't think united states troops could go into ukraine, right? >> no, i never argued for american tanks, but i always said banks, banks was a key to stop putin aggression. every aggressor needs money. he needs resources, and putin controls more money than any individual in the history of human race. so it has got late now just to start using this, this weapon effectively. if you want to help ukraine, you don't have to send boots on the ground. it is bankrupt him. america and the free world are in power of doing it. >> so former secretary of state madeleine albright writes and app ed for "the new york times" that putin is making a historic mistake in, quote, the 20-odd

years since we met, mr. put inl has charted his course by ditching democratic development for stalin's playbook. he has collected political and economic power for himself, co-opting or crushing potential competition, while pushing to re-establish a sphere of russian dock nance through parts of the former soviet union. like other authoritarians, he equates his own well-being with that of the nation and opposition with treason. he is sure that americans mirror both his sin civic and his lust for power and that in a world where everyone lies, he is under no obligation to tell the truth. because he believes that the united states dominates its own region by force, he thinks russia has the same right. instead of paving russia's path to greatness, invading ukraine would ensure mr. putin's infamy by leaving his country

diplomatically isolated, economically crippled and strategically vulnerable in the face of a stronger, more united western alliance. ukraine is entitled to its sovereigty, no matter who its neighbors happen to be. in the modern era, great countries accept that, and so must mr. putin. that is the message undergirding recent western diplomacy. it defines the difference between a world governed by rule of law and one answerable to no rules at all. but, prosecutor kasparov, he hasn't seen consequences in the past, this is why he's emboldened, this is why it appears to be his rational. from what we're hearing from the white house and from others there will be consequences imminently. will that stop him? >> we are hearing, we have been hearing for many, many years, we have been hearing about

isolation after crimea, but nothing has happened. now i am tired of hearing. i want to see. america can do a lot. european allies can do a lot, but, you know, we still have to see this political will. step number one, immediately recall ambassadors from moscow. step number two, start identifying and freezing the assets of russian oligarchs. step number three, help ukraine with cyber capabilities and satellite intelligence. again, start counting move after move. again, nobody is talking about boots on the ground, but ukraine can be helped in many ways that will bankrupt the putin military machine and we will see the consequences. the consequences should be compatible to the damage, to the tragedy that putin's troops bringing to ukrainian cities. by the way, i'm not so sure putin's troops will walk through ukrainian the same way mens

walked through afghanistan or iraq. the first reports are not showing that russian troops are successfully going through ukraine as probably putin planned, but it doesn't mean, you know, that he will be capable to undermine ukrainian military forces because of russian enormous military power. >> jeremy bash, let's tap into your experience at the defense department, at the cia just on what we've seen over the last few hours from russia. as i said earlier, russian intelligence predicted this. they warned this for the last several weeks, that vladimir putin was ready to go in, that it was imminent. many were called alarmist at the time. now this event has begun. what is your assessment based on what you know, based on the intelligence you have seen, based on people you have talked to about the early hours and what may be coming next? >> well, for about two months, willie, the u.s. intelligence community has been showcasing

the fact putin had mafs military buildup on the borders of ukraine and it was inconsistent with any innocuous exercise or an effort to merely intimidate ukraine. it was clear, it was evident from the bill yuld that he wanted to attack, that he wanted to invade, that he wanted to conduct combat inside ukraine and last night as we saw those precision strikes struck military targets around the country including in the capital city. i think this morning it is definitive. we can call it the post-cold war era is over. the united states now will be in a prolonged conflict with russia and it appears russia has an ally in china. the world is now dividing along the lines many analysts have been suggesting. i think the first objective, willie, will be to bolster and fortified defenses in nato so putin doesn't dare think he can take one step into an article five nato alliance country. that's job number one. second, i think we have to impose significant costs on

putin. we have to make this not a fair fight. we have to arm, train and equip the ukrainian forces. this is not going to be easy. it is going to require a lot of over capability but also clandestine capability. we will be rolling out significant sanctions against the financial institutions that fund putin's war machine. there's a lot of work to do here today but it is playing out exactly as the biden administration called it. >> we are gauging reaction from world leaders. british prime minister boris johnson said putin has chosen a bath of blood said and destruction. the uk and our allies will respond decisively. germany's chancellor called russia's attack a blatant violation of international law, calling this a terrible day for ukraine and a dark day for europe. australian prime minister scott

morrison said the russian government launched a brutal invasion, unprovoked, on ukraine and should be condemned for doing so. japan's prime minister also con denied the attack, saying the country will respond speedily in cooperation with the u.s. and other western nations. >> mike barnicle. katty kay, you are in london today, you are in paris earlier in the week. you are intimately familiar with europe. war has unintended consequences and here on an early thursday morning we are witnessing a war in ukraine, but the world is very small compared to what it was even a decade ago. so it is a global war some would say immediately, it is a global war right now today. the spine of nato, it has been strong thus far. is there any sense that you get, especially with regard to germany, that an intensive and elongated war in ukraine would cripple parts of europe's

economy, there's no doubt about that, cripple parts of the american economy, there's no doubt about that. what is the future? what is the immediate future in terms of the strength and unity of nato against this confrontation with russia? >> mike, i mean this is a day i never thought i would see in my lifetime. i just travelled from paris to london today, everybody looking at their phones. there was silence on the train from paris. it is a gut wrenching day for europeans. ukraine is 1,300 miles away from where i am in london, yet it feels like a european war. we will feel the consequences on the continent. boris johnson, you had him on the screen just now, also said he is going to announce a package of sanctions in coordination with allies. he said, we in the world cannot allow that freedom just to be snuffed out. we cannot and we will not just look away. this is what mika's father spent

his whole career struggling to avoid, fighting to avoid, another war on the european continent. we don't know the ramifications of this, mike. we don't know what happens next because war once it is started is horrible and unpredictable. will nato stand strong? at the moment, yes. we heard jens stoltenberg about an hour ago saying, reinvoking article five, making it very clear. he said, had is a message to mr. putin, an attack against one is an attack against all. i expect you will see a step-up on security on nato's eastern border, but today the plates have shifted. around the world we saw the reaction, but particularly here in europe. we are feeling it. this is something we hoped would never happen, and russia is taking a whack at democracy and the world needs to understand that. >> garry kasparov, this was tweeted. i suspect history will brutally

praise those who voted not to convict trump over ukraine. as i went down the list what george w. bush said about putin and the way obama was talking about a reset and being able to do more after his election and talked about donald trump, i overlooked the fact not so long ago he was blackmailing ukraine and zelenskyy, saying he would not deliver military weapons unless zelenskyy delivered military dirt on his political opponent. it shows you, again, just how botched and mishandled the united states's dealing in confronting vladimir putin has been. it has just kept getting worse through donald trump. >> i couldn't agree more. donald trump's four years, they were instrumental for putin to gain more confidence. for those who say that putin would never have attacked ukraine while trump was -- if

trump was in the oval office, they simply ignore the fact that donald trump always wanted america out of europe and he would never lift his finger to help nato allies. again, it hasn't started with trump. you pointed out it goes all the way back to george bush, bush 43. because in putin's speech when he talked about the sphere of influence that was delivered 15 years ago in 2007, and after the speech that for me was a clear indication putin's strategic plans to reinstate russian control of the so-called -- most of the part of the former soviet empire, it was vastly ignored. next year he attacked the republic of georgia. let's not forget syria, he propped up assad and bombing of

strongholds of rebels and no consequences. after annexation of crimea it was clear putin would not stop with the annexation because he never accepted ukraine as an independent state. of course, we can talk about trump, and recently he confirmed our worst expectations about his presidency by calling putin's decision to recognize so-called break away regions in this so-called genius move. it is not just about trump. i would say it is about the ebenezer of the free world and the unwillingness of western leaders to take putin seriously and to recognize that this man, this man meant business. nobody wanted to believe him. you know, he started his presidency with bloody war in chechnya more than 20 years ago. it is more than two decades of

blood shed, lying and total destruction of democracy in russia and covert operations around the world. he has already attacked america. why do you think he would stop of using whatever, including nukes, if he thinks that he is under threat. again, it is time to impose not just sanctions but crippling sanctions, something that will bankrupt the russian economy, including oil and gas embargo. make sure that the putin war machine is no longer supported by western cash. >> he has certainly shown himself time and time again, as you say, garry, over the last couple of decades. jeremy bash, we are getting reports of attacks on military installations about ten miles outside of kyiv. we have seen other installations and positions attacked, we know about the cyberattacks. appears to be softening the ground. the question is softening the ground for what?

what is reasonable to expect out of the russian military as it moves into ukraine? >> well, willie, i think the objective of the russian forces here ultimately is to depose, overthrow, topple the zelenskyy government an drive him out of kyiv. in order to do that they have to break the command and control nodes he leverages to command his own forces. so i think a lot of the targeted attacks, whether by cyber methods or kinetic methods meaning dropping bombs are designed to diss corrupt command and control for the military. that's the way zelenskyy communicates with his military forces, with other elements across the country. that's way think you can expect. once the russians assess they've degraded the command and control apparatus, they can roll on the ground and take control of physical territory and ultimately government buildings. >> thank you both very much for

joining us on this important morning. we will continue to cover the breaking news here on "morning joe." the russian invasion of ukraine. we will be right back. f ukraine. we will be right back. ou've been your copd,... ♪ it's a new dawn, it's a new day,... ♪ ...it's time to make a stand. start a new day with trelegy. ♪...and i'm feelin' good. ♪ no once-daily copd medicine... has the power to treat copd in as many ways as trelegy. with three medicines in one inhaler, trelegy helps people breathe easier and improves lung function. it also helps prevent future flare-ups. trelegy won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it. do not take trelegy more than prescribed. trelegy may increase your risk of thrush, pneumonia, and osteoporosis. call your doctor if worsened breathing, chest pain, mouth or tongue swelling, problems urinating, vision changes, or eye pain occur.

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"the new york daily news" leads with "russia launches ukraine attack." "the new york times" with a photo of a ukrainian soldier alongside the headline "russia attacks as putin warns the world, biden vows to hold him accountable." new this morning the union of football associations will no longer hold this season's champion league final in st. petersburg after russia attacked ukraine. the ap reports a meeting of the uefa executive committee will be held tomorrow to discuss the geopolitical crisis and confirm the removal of the may 28th match from russia. it is just the beginning. coming up, we will go live to capitol hill as senators scramble to come up with new sanctions against russia. we are back in just a moment. t t

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it is 37 past hour. we are following the russian invaccination of ukraine. a live look at kyiv, ukraine, at this moment. you know, nearly eight years ago just a few months after russia's military seize of crimea, my father, dr. brzezinski, spoke before the senate foreign relations committee and his testimony was adapted into a piece for "the washington post" entitled "putin's three choices on ukraine." it reads in part, putin could invade ukraine, exploiting russia's much larger military potential. such an action, however, would not only prompt retaliation by the west but could also provoke ukrainian resistance. if such resistance were sustained and intense, there would be growing pressure on the members of nato to support the ukrainians in a variety of

forms, making the conflict much costlier to the aggressor. for the kremlin, the consequence of this third option would be not only a permanently hostile ukrainian population of more than 40 million, but also an economically and politically isolated russia facing the growing possibility of internal unrest. if the issue of crimea will remain unresolved for now, but it will serve as an enduring reminder that shoef fanaticism is not best for russia itself. >> the insight is keen and they are still relevant eight years later. katty kay, two great differences

between when the doctor wrote that. nato unity blue into a million pieces when donald trump was in the white house, but nato has gotten shoulder to shoulder. so share response will be aggressive and they are unified. the second thing is and perhaps it is a reason for the invasion. over the past six, eight years ukraine has become decidedly more pro western throughout most of the region and anti-russian sentiment continued to grow. i wonder if that's why putin decided he had no choice, that he was going to lose ukraine to the west if he let events take their natural course so he decided to move before that eventuality happened. >> yeah, i mean just listen to putin over the last few days. he is not sounding like a soviet

leader. he is sounding more like a czar wanting to expand the russian empire and speaking of it in these very nationalist, personal terms. it sounds like he over the last few months has decided it is his legacy issue and he absolutely must have his territory as he conceives it back together again. nato has been revived by this aggression in ukraine. the challenge now for nato is what to do about reish as it moves into the country. the sanctions seem to be the only option. that's where there's less unity. you look at the european union and they're discussing sanctions. boris johnson's sanctions have been deemed to be weak. members of the italians want to carve out luxury goods, they don't want fehr aerie as and

guccis not to be exported to russia. that's not going to work. there has to be a solid unified response. they have to be imposed in coordination and they can't be carve outs, with belgium wants a carve-out for diamonds. the world has to realize putin has got away from this ever since dr. brzezinski was writing about georgia, ever since the u.s. election and the brexit campaign and a string of other elections since, and we didn't do enough because we thought russia was weak. russia is clearly no longer weak, clearly capable of this. the question for the world is how do they make sure this doesn't become a first in a series of moves he might make on other areas of the world that he feels should be part of his fantasy ideal of a russian

empire again. >> michael barnacle, we heard the frustration in the voices this morning saying, now do you believe us about vladimir putin. he was always willing to do this, whether or not many people in the west believed that was true. we know that president biden is going to announce further sanctions this morning. to katty's point, how far do you suspect the white house is willing to go here to cut off russia from the rest of the world? >> oh, i think they're going to go very hard, even beyond hard on russia today. it is interesting, the conversation we've been having all morning about what has happened and dr. brzezinski's piece mika just read from, written eight years ago. things have changed drastically eight years. eight years is not a long time in terms of history, but the interconnectedness of the globe is far advanced than it was eight years ago, so we are this morning talking about a global

war. we keep repeating it is russia that invaded ukraine, but actually it is putin who invaded ukraine. the interesting thing to me, willie, is over the weekend i was talking to someone who was very, very well connected with the american intelligence community, and he was talking about the latest psychological profile that was done on vladimir putin and the adjectives to describe him are frightening. paranoid. he has an inferiority complex. he is totally isolated from people that he had as advisers just few years ago. he is a megalomaniac. this is what we're dealing with this morning. it is putin's war. it is putin's invasion. what steps he might take next we do not know, but i think we do know that the united states of america along with other european countries will inflict severe, severe penalties that russia is totally unprepared for, but putin doesn't have to worry about that in the

immediate sense because he doesn't really have to report to the russian people. he doesn't really have to care about the russian people. it is not like here. he is not looking at overnight polls. seas that what we're dealing with. it is a volatile and increasingly dangerous situation. >> yeah. we'll see if sanctions do anything to vladimir putin. they haven't in the past, but if they can go far enough perhaps we can stop this escalation of this war that is happening even as we speak this morning. coming up next, jail opposition russian leader alexei navalny is reacting to russia's invasion. remember, he was poisoned, survived, but a thorn in the side to vladimir putin for a long time. he is speaking out this morning. plus, another live report from eastern ukraine. nbc news foreign correspondent matt bradley says now he is hearing a series of explosions. he will join us with the very latest next. s with the very latest next. ♪a pair of jeans that fit just right♪

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we're back at 10 before the hour as we continue our coverage of russia's invasion of ukraine. at a court hearing today jailed opposition leader alexei navalny condemned vladimir putin's invasion of ukraine. "the new york times" reports it this way. quote, the war with ukraine has. the "new york times" puts it the war with ukraine has been unleashed to cover up the robbery of russian citizens. navalny went on to say, this war will lead to a vast number of victims, destroyed lives and continued immover itchment of russian people, catty to remind our audience, alexei navalny is a critic of the kremlin. he was poisoned in 2020, placed into a medically-induced coma, taken to berlin, where he recovered. upon his return to russia, he was jailed by vladimir putin and the russian government. still, though from prison speaking out against putin. >> yeah, the reason we are

hearing from him, he is actually on trial at the moment. his lawyers are with him. his wife has been with him on trial in that personal colony and so, i guess he used one of those court appearances to make this condemnation of the assaults on ukraine. nobody understands how much vladimir putin is committed to ending democratic freedoms in russia. nobody understands that better than alexy navalny, who is paying his attempts to oppose putin with a very long sense and a harsh prison, both at home and now abroad and in ukraine, vladimir putin zermd to remake the world as he wants it to be. if that includes attacking, invading a democratic neighbor democratic for 30 years, and independent for 30 years, then had he has showned he is prepared to do that.

>> navalny continues his criticism even though he is serving a prison sentence imposed. we appreciate it. still ahead, the president of ukraine has this message to his citizens and to the people of russia. two ukrainians, he says, we will give weapons to anyone who wants a weapon. and to the russians, president zelenskyy says it is time to go out and protest this war. we have a fast moving story from eastern europe, next on "morning joe." ing story from eastern europe, next on "morning joe. ♪ “all i do is win” by dj khaled ♪ ♪ everybody's hands go up! ♪ karaoke singer: and they stay there. and they say yeah. and they stay there, up, down, up, down. never lose confidence in how you run your business.

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condemned, russia you launch on my people. there is no purgatory for war criminals. they go straight to hell. >> straight to hell. that was a stunning moment for the u.n.

ukraine's ambassador to the united nations with that message directly to russia's ambassador as the kremlin watches an unprovoked invasion of ukraine. the military invasion inside that country started about eight hours ago. ukrainian officials say airstrikes and rockets have killed dozens of soldiers already today. the kremlin reporting this morning, the goal is to quote neutralize ukraine's military potential. president biden called the attack unprovoked and unjustified. he is meeting with fellow g-7 leaders this morning. he says he will announce a new round of sanctions against russia this afternoon. the european union held an emergency meeting overnight. it says it is preparing the most harshest package in history. joining us from kiev, matt bradley and in ukraine, nbc correspondent kyle bradley. matt, let me deal with you in the eastern part of the country. you are about 25 miles from the

border with russia. what are you seeing there today? >> reporter: yeah, we're not seeing much of anything. the street will almost entirely empty. the stores are shuttering up. they are lining up at atms rushing to get cash before it runs out. but we haven't seen troops rolling through the streets. we did, we started hearing bomb blasts. it was a quick percussion that went on for a couple of minutes, intermittently throughout the rest of the day, we have been hearing steady bomb blasts. they are all to the north of where i am, hitting mostly military installations or strategic targets around this city. this is the second-largest city in ukraine. unlike what's going on in kiev, where it looks like people are fleeing the city. people are mostly hunkering down. this is i believe because this is a majority russian-speaking

city. these people feel that vladimir putin probably won't hit a lot of civilian targets because putin considers them to be russian. these are the people that putin claims he's going to be saving. these are the people that putin says are the victims of oppression and even genocide by the government that vladimir putin announced lasted night he intend to denazify, which is a busy ar way of saying, i don't know what he is trying to say. there are no nazis in the government in kiev. but it sound as though he wants to go and create a regime change. for the people in the this city, the russian-speaking city, they said they are determined to stand up and fight and the president vladimir putin says he will give a weapon to anyone who will stand up and fight against the russians. that may come to it. we seen the russians have breached the border 25 miles north of where i am. we've seen images passed around on social media of russian tanks

that have been blasted out. at least four of them on the road to kharkiv where i am now. we seen some simply stopped, create check poirnts on the highway and are guiding traffic and stopping traffic and basically setting up what looks to be like the beginnings of an occupation force. but, guys, i got to tell you. we don't know much. a lot of this is fogged in the mire of war obscured by a really constantly shifting reality on the ground that is really hard for us to see. we are just watching this right now through a peephole, providing by the state government, images on certainly media and whatever we can hear. we haven't yet seen these tanks, russians walking through the streets of this city. all we are seeing right now, all we are hearing is an eerie panicked calm. guys. >> yeah. that strange rhetoric about nazis repeated again this morning out of russia. some irony there as we've had

experts, including ambassador mcfaul this morning saying today reminds him of september 1st, 1939. cal perry, let's go clear across ukraine. you are not far from poland in the west of the country. what are you seeing there? >> reporter: well, we are seeing similar scenes playeding out in kiev, there is lines at atm machines, people using this city as we expected as a fallback position. matt bradley is in the front. i am in the case considered people hope will be a safe haven. we are keeping our eye on an increasingly concerning refugee situation, internally displaced people. this was something we were anticipating. it is interesting to hear the ukrainian president speak in russian on telegram, not on tv, telegram, directly to the russian people responding to what state russia has been putting out that the naziification of ukraine as he

put it is not true. they are not enemies of the state, reaching out at least to the russian people to try to head this off in the early morning hours as it was started. as we look towards the border, we do see that americans will be able to cross into poland relatively easy, according to polish government. we are, of course, in the midst of a pandemic as well, where there will be a test requirement. the polish government has dropped that requirement. the biggest question is how europe handle what can be an influx of refugees. this is a conditiont that has dealt with an influx of syrian refugees. this will be clearly a very different situation as you are going to see europeans playing this scene. it is worth mentioning, matt bradley, absolutely, laying it out. you have this fog of war, the russians are putting out this information and they are again refugee crisis changes politics here in europe,.

it changed the face of government, europe dropping out because of a misinformation campaign, that is a concern here on the ground. unhcr saying they will do everything they can. the international red cross, whether here or in poland where we have 10,000 u.s. soldiers from the 82nd airborne who said they will be with the polish government trying to help anyone who is trying to flee the country. >> nbc news' cal perry and matt bradley. we will check back in with you throughout the day. joe. as willie mentionled earlier this morning, we spoke with former u.s. ambassador to russia michael mcfaul, who had this to say about vladimir putin's invasion. >> it's tragic. it's irrational. it's also evil. let's call it for that. there is good and evil in the world. this is an evil act. putin does not think like we do. we keep thinking he will do some

cross-benefit analysis, think about how sanctions might affect you know the prices, bear bank and the stockmarket next week. that is who vladimir putin s. he's proved that today on this incredibly tragic day. there is no rationality here. he is motivated by some crazy ideas. i want to really emphasize that. i listened to his speech on monday. i listened to his speech last night. he is talking about denaziification. there are no nazis in ukraine. the leader of ukraine is not a nazi. he's a democratically elected leader. he's jewish. he is not a nazi. and for just to -- i'm sorry i'm so emotional. but we got to get over the fact we will deal with this guy in some cost benefit analysis, we've got to treat him as an irrational evil leader. i hope and expect that president biden and the free world will,

today, today, not weeks from now, but today, impose most comprehensive sanctions against russia ever. it's fantastic that we have nato. thank god we expanded nato. this incredibly stupid debate we have been having the last several weeks, imagine a europe without nato expanded. that's great. but as one of my ukrainian friends e-mailed me a couple hours ago, i can't believe we are facing this basstard alone. >> let's bring in two russian experts the founding partner and washington correspondent. julia, we heard ambassador mcfaul talk about what an irrational player vladimir putin is, as we always as americans try to project our views, our attitudes on to him. that has proven to be a terrible mistake, once again, hasn't it?

>>. >> i think mike is absolutely right, we often try to project our american frame of logic on to russia and other countries. we often get it wrong. other place don't think like us. they have different histories, different cultures. i do think vladimir putin is rational but in his own, you know, framework of rationality. his logic is tern e internally consistent. he is consistent every time, every time i go on tv, what does vladimir putin want? what does vladimir putin want? like it's a big misstory. it's not. he has been saying the same thing for well over a decade, since he came to power 22 years ago. he doesn't like the fact that the cold war is over. he wants a new cold war where the u.s. and russia are the two superpowers who determine the course of events in the world and counterbalance each other.

he does not, he wants to renegotiate the terms of surrender. you know, actually while we were having this flurry of diplomacy in december, we missed the fact that it was the 30th anniversary of the collapse of the soviet union, which is a very big and traumatic event for him. he has always said he doesn't believe ukraine is a real country. he thinks ukrainians and russians are one people. he told it to george w. bush when he was president. he told them then he doesn't want it to expand. everything he is doing is internally rational. he has never given a crap about sanctions. he thinks that the west is going to sanction him anyway and it's still worth it. the economic pain isn't pain that he is feeling. it's the pensioners in russia who cannot afford to buy things to make soup with. he is going to be just fine. the people around him will be just fine. he is on a historical mission.

he thinks he is restoring russia's greatness. he is restoring russia's empire and place on the world stage. if we have to suffer a bit, that's okay. the other thing i think we get deeply wrong about russia is again by projecting our american logic onto the place, we liver in a society where ostensibly, at least formally and on paper, america says it's a government for the people, by the people. that is not the case in russia. that has never been the case in russia for hundreds of years. the people exist for the government. the people exist to help make the government great. the governor's glory is reflected back on them. so the idea that russians would get upset because their gas prices go up and vote somebody out the way americans do? it's never going to happen. there are a lot of people in russia who would rather live in an empire and pay higher prices for sugar, potatoes and noodles than to live in a prosperous

democracy. this is what a lot of people want. they want to live in an empire and they're willing to suffer hardship and putin is very happy to make that decision for them. it's not like he is asking for something else. >> of course, it's logical, he has had four invasions and never paid for any of them. despite vladimir putin has been warning us 20 years, despite his speech in 2007, saying exactly what he was going to do, one administration after another has underestimated him, george w. bush looking into his eyes seeing into his soul saying he was a good guy and the obama reset, whispering, hey, i can do a lot more after the election. if donald trump blackmailing ukraine, i'm not going to give you military weapons until you give me dirt on my political opponent despite again one

warning after another that we've had one administration after another continue to underestimate vladimir putin. what does joe biden need to do now the invasion has begun to break that streak? >> well, there is not much biden can do. that's the reality of geography and power right now, i think. the united states hasn't had a coherent russian policy since the early 19 -- i would argue since about 1992. on the other hand, let's be a little forgiving of previous administrations. you know, i was one of the people that just didn't think that any russian leader was literally going to try to roll across ukraine and inflict this kind of hardship on his people and on people they think of as brothers and sisters. i think some things happened where i think putin has become unstable. i agree with julia, that his internal logic is consistent,

but you know there is another way we think about rationality, that is the ability to process information and to accept and understand information and the kind of things that putin is saying suggests that he just completely lacks that ability. now, i mean, if he genuinely believes and i'm not sure that he does, if he genuinely believes he is denazifying ukraine or averting some kind of ukrainian nuclear program, these are phrases that are right out of the time that putin loves best, which is the late cold war soviet union, like julia, when people said to me what does he want? i answer what he wants is for it to be 1975 again with the united states on its, you know, on its butt after vietnam, the correlation of forces to use a soviet term turning in favor of

moscow. moscow sitting at the center of a great empire. he wants it to be a time he remembers fondly. and unfortunately a time that a lot of russians who didn't live through it remember fondly. i mean, you have younger russians who are saying, walking around talking about how great it must have been to have been in the soviet union and, of course, they're saying that while they're watching 15 can else and texting their friends on smartphones and traveling at will throughout europe. one thing i think biden can do and i think this is something we were always -- to do we have to make this hurt not on putin but on the people around putin. the people who might be able to you know, i just know who can stop him at this point. that national security meeting the other day was unnerving, more like an audience with a

demi god. there must be people around him who don't want to be under sanctions, have their money disappear or be unable to get children september back from the european capitals, that they would prefer their children to be in, who don't want russia ruined by an insane war for some sort of, you know, nationalist glory by this unhinged former secret policeman. >> right. >> there must be people who i think who are rational in that they can process information and understand what's going on in the world and to take a line from the untouchables that i used in an earlier piece, the one thing about this is if you are going to open the ball on these people, you have to go all the way. they are, these are -- this is not hashtags and huffy denunciations are not going to do it. these are tough people. some of them are murderers.

some of them are stone killers. if you go up against these folks, you have to commit. putin has. >> yeah. >> i think biden is doing this well and taking it seriously. it would be nice if we had a more united american front. that's also the unfortunate nature of our current politics. >> yeah. well, you know, mike barnical, there are people around vladimir putin who are deeply uncomfortable. you saw if that meeting with his spy chief. you also saw sergei lavrov telling him the west is united. we have to deal with america, with the west. david ignacious wrote there have been cracks in support for vladimir putin, of course, that doesn't team to make much of a difference. >> joe, i would agree, there are people around putin who is

deeply uncomfortable with what's going on, but are they frightened enough? that's the issue. a couple of things that tom just said, there is a view according to my reporting in the american government that when putin looks at the landscape, he sees a series of western democracies who have been weakened by various events over the last five-to-ten years and he senses that ukraine invading ukraine is a tool to further weaken them and even the landscape, the political landscape for him and for russia. do you agree we that? >> i think it would be a secondary goal, an official byproduct. i think she invading ukraine, he thinks it is a part of the historic russian homeland. he has never believed it as a country. he condition comfortable with it being a western democracy stretching further and further

away from him. of course, he's done everything to drive it into the arms of the west since 2014, accomplishing the polar option of what he wants to do. i think that's his primary goal. but i think he's been destabilizing these democracies in europe through other means and actually i don't know if you recall during the again flurry of diplomatic meetings. you had the president of hungary who aligns with putin on a lot of things. strong man leader who has copied a lot of putin's domestic agenda in terms of rooting out dissent and bringing business under control and making it divvying up to his cronies. he came to moscow. they made a gas deal. as the west, you know, hung sari a nato member and u.n. member and they cut a deal with the russians while the rest of the block is talking about sanctions. so he's been picking them off

one-by-one for a while. this has been happening for a while. i will say, though, back to your original point, joe, or your question about various administrations, various american administrations. it's not really fair to compare them if you look at putin, he's on his fifth american president. he has been doing this for 22 years. sergei lavrov is on his 20th american secretary of state. they just wait it out. they're on a different schedule and i think actually for all the criticism that joe biden is getting for being weak on russia, i think this is the first administration we've had that actually sees this buy the for what he is. he is russia under him for what it is, you know, the irony of this is that the biden administration came into office planning to basically park russia. they were very clear-eyed about the fact that nothing would change for the better as long as

putin is in power ie as long as he is alive. they were willing to entertain him and give him a summit and give him some phone calls so that he just doesn't get everybody in trouble and so they can pivot to asia. and in the words of the brilliant angela scent, he had other plans, this administration extremely clear-eyed. these are veterans of the obama administration and joe biden dealt, you know, ukraine in 2014 became his portfolio when he was vice president. people like torrea newland, tony blinken. they have all worked on these issues. they know this guy, so putin is on his fifth president. they're on the second round with him. so at least it's a little more even playing field. but i think for once we have an ad min straition to gets it when it comes to russia. >> there is no doubt joe biden is the first american president since putin has been in power

that has come into office, gone into the oval office without any illusions of who the man was. >> and did an entire reset, right? >> he did not try a reset and understood the importance of unifying nato. let's talk about russia's motivations. because again speaking of dr. brezinski, i remember a pulitzer prize author was bemoaning american's great anguish to the people of pakistan who wanted to emulate america. dr. brezinski laughed and said, you fool, other countries do not want to have what america has. you bring the same point up, that we have to look actually at what the motivations of this invasion of ukraine actually are. i was speaking to a russian diplomat over the past month who said you americans don't understand. this isn't about ukraine. this is about re-ordering the

world, since 1991, you americans have thought that you controlled the world alone. we, if we go into ukraine, if we don't go into ukraine, regardless, we're going to show that you the world doesn't center around you and along with china, we're going to reorder the world they said at the united nations. good luck with that. fred, i get the larger point, that this isn't about ukraine, this is about changing the world order. >> absolutely, again, it's something putin has been very open about. he talked about this at the famous munich conference speech in 2007. he, you know, we in the west think of the cold war as a bad thing. we celebrated it when it was over. putin you know as tom pointed out, he wants to go back to 1975. he talked about this at munich. he said, we used to have a world with two centers of gravity.

we had washington and we had moscow. and there was a kind of a balance there. an equilibrium. they balanced each other out. in putin's mind, he said it provided for global security. of course, that belies the fact that we had bloody proxy wars in afghanistan afghanistan, vietnam, angola, nick iraq and mozambique. and in his mind everything was hunky dorie because there was this balance of power. he thinks that once the u.s. started calling the shots, everything went sideways and he would like to fix that. also, he thinks russia should be at the table, that russia should be a great empire calling the shots. you know in his speech as that he was giving as ukraine, as russia was invading ukraine by air, by sea and by land, he was saying, you know, this is a

re-ordering. and he was saying that -- sorry, i lost my train of thought. i've had to sleep. >> we'll give you a break. you have been on tv and reporting around the clock on this story for several weeks now. tom, let me go to you. and as you both have said senior eloquently this morning, this is a crusade in some ways for vladimir putin, which is to say whatever sanctions president biden puts on russia today, it will be added to the list for vladimir putin. he's got his money squirrelled away. he's okay. his idea is to sort of redraw the map, to redraw the lines and bring back in some of these countries that were lost after the collapse of the soviet union and to bring back what he believes really is historic russia. what it should be. so with that in mind, how do you deter a man who believes that he is on a mission like that? what show of force? what sentencing reverses that

mentality? >> you can't. sometimes foreign policy is just i think something that's very characteristically american is that we think there are solutions to everything, everything can be negotiated. you know, we're americans are a deal-making, you know, kind of contract sort of culture. that's not this situation. sometimes in foreign policy all the options are bad. some are just really bad and worse tan others. we are, you know, the biden administration is facing a very limited set of options that are all terrible. i don't think he is deterrable in this. i think he will be limited by internal factors including body bags and the fact that the russian military as good as it is, will become overstretched in

relatively short order, but i don't think there is really anything that you are going to be able to do about this. and i think it's important to re-emphasize that point about remaking world order. i had a piece yesterday in the atlantic where i said, this isn't just an attack on ukraine. this is about ukraine. these are slavs attempting to practice democracy, which putin was never going to allow to happen if he could stop it. but also, it's an attack on the global order that emerged from the rubble of the cold war. you know, we, walk, the whole world, created an air of international cooperation and free trade. that benefits even benefitted russia, whether the russians like putin want to say that it did or not.

but what putin would gladly go back to eating you know sausage and chicken necks and living in poverty if it meant feeling like part of a great power again. this was something that in my time in the soviet union in the '80s was always there. that no matter what you would say to societies about you know standing in line for shoes or bread, there was still this sense that you know being a great power, a mighty state and putin has shot through with that nostalgia. he lives for it. this is again something that while hess preferences are consistent. he's not irrational in the sense that we have no idea what he will do from moment-to-moment. this is running on pure emotion. it's very hard to deter someone who is running on emotion.

i've said before if a way we are facing the post-dangerous middle life cries, from this aging man who sees to restore the only place he was happy. >> you talk about vladimir putin wanting it to be 1975 all over again you can look at the map and understand with nato pushing deep inside former warsaw-packed countries, obviously, somebody whose life was shaped by the soviet union and shaped by their dominance on the world stage is going to be focused on getting back some of that glory. julia, final thoughts? >> it came back to me, so he was also talking about you know he was talking about the post-cold war order that benefitted russia, like tom said. mostly russia was shut out of it. russia was the loser, it was

relegated to the sidelined and kind of marginalized. in his speech, ukraine was invaded by his forces, he was talking also about yelta pact. it was negotiated if yelta february 1975 by winston church hymn, fdr and joseph stalin, where they basically carved up europe into spheres of influence. it held that way until 1989 and 1991. that's where their rocks going off all over ukraine. he is thinking of 1945. >> yeah. >> when is soviet union was at the affirgy of its power. >> we grew up learning what a dreadful mistake fdr did in yelta. as to stalin, the tanks were

already in eastern europe. so i'm not sure what fdr's options were. we are all talking fine 45. julia, thank you so much for being with us. we greatly appreciate it. tom nichols, thank you as well. russia's attack set global marks predictably spiraling. let's bring in cnbc's domenic chu. you know over the past several days, actually, we have been moving into correction territory. russia has been on the verge of the invasion. the invasion has begun. markets continue to drop into bear territory. how bad is it going to get? >> so right now, the dow will be implied lower at the opening bell. if these futures moves hold into the 9:30 opening bell, the dow will fall 850 points. yes, this is going to be severe. but to your point, joe, this is something that's been in the making for you mentioned days, i would argue weeks at this point. not just the ukraine-russia situation, but uncertainty about what the fed reserve policy will

be about raising interest rates in the coming months and years possibly. all of this is coming to a head right now. with the invasion today as it happened overnight, the immediate reaction was seen in probably some of the most predictable places. beyond the broader markets, we saw a flight to safety. people are buying in the safety of u.s. government bonds specifically. they are buying the safety of gold and silver, specifically, what they are tell e selling off right now are things that are tied to maybe a slowdown in corporate or global travel. think hotel companies, think airlines, those stocks are going lower today, meanwhile, defense contractors are 'cutch ac bid. the real complication, joe, at least for markets, obviously, the military and geopolitical aspect will be front and center. right now what investors around the world are trying to figure out is whether or not the implications of this particular invasion will have an effect on what the federal reserve does with our own policies here in

mortgage the reason why i mentioned it, is the fed is increasingly in a very difficult spot. what this invasion has done has seen oil prices shoot up again, that's going to reverberate into gasoline prices. what we have seen are corn and wheat prices skyrocket again and that's going to filter into consumer prices. the fed is now fighting even more inflation at a time when they have to figure out how to conduct interest rate policy. all of that uncertainty is the reason why you are seeing a lot more, this general risk aversion overall, joe, into the marks right now. >> all right. cnbc's dom chu. thank you so much. willie, you look at nasdaq futures, nasdaq is taking a really big hit. these tech stocks that have done so well, giving back a lot of their earnings today. >> yeah, we will be watching that closely, probably to be expected with the uncertainty right now, in europe, we will be watching oil and gas closely,

getting the players involved here. nbc chief war correspondent richard everything el back with us from mariople, ukraine. what's the latest there? >> so we are now 10.5 hours into this military campaign. it seems at this stage russia is targeting ukrainian military installations. the major cities, population centers have not seen any significant fighting. there has been no reports of street fighting. there are no reports of house-to-house clearances or anything like that. now, this is consistent with the what russia has said, dmitry peskov, the spokesman for the kremlin and putin, himself, both said they have no intention of occupying this country, they want to take away its military capability. that is perhaps what we are seeing now in this first phase. they are attacking quite

deliberately and consistently in an area that is spread out all over the country, radar stations. they are attacking airports. they're attacking airbases. they are attacking intelligence locations. they are trying to take away the ukrainian military's ability to organize and fight back. now, that could be a prelude to moving onto the cities, taking control of the ukrainian population. but for now, ten hours in, we are seeing a predominantly air campaign directed against the military, with russia putting a lot of its troops and military hardware into positions for a potential future stage. >> all right. nbc news' richard engel in the southeastern part of ukraine this morning. thanks so much, richard, we'll be back to you. now to moscow, senior international correspondent keir simmons is there. keir, good morning again. what more are we hearing from the kremlin since we saw you

last? >> reporter: well, willie, we've now heard that there will be no public appearances, at least that's what we are told, by president putin. there was to be a news conference, we believe, with the italian prime minister who is here in moscow on a pre-scheduled visit. now that appears not to be happening anymore. that news conference, that kind of traditional news conference that you would expect when two -- a leader visits the president of russia. at the same time we are hearing that president putin is meeting his oligarchs there. they face sanctions from the west so clearly president putin is likely to be laying down the law i suspect. because when you look back now

on the speech that was broadcast by russian television in the early hours of the morning here, the speech by president putin is astonishing. i have been going through it in the morning. it is so long and rambling and you look at it and you just realize that this isn't written by a speech writer, a kremlin team, carefully crafting the arguments that president putin will make for such a historically momentous decision. in fact, it is just president putin speaking, talking, the thoughts that come into his head. there are some details in here which do, which are interesting, en lightening. so he says in the speech he made the decision to carry out the special military operation on february 22nd. so that is on tuesday. so, that tells us then that when the u.s. and secretary blinken

cancelled the meeting with his counterpart, minister lavrov a foreign minister when the french counselled that potential diplomatic meeting, when it became clear to the russians that there would not be a further meeting between president putin or president biden, according to president putin's own account, he had made the decision. the diplomacy not breaking down. he had made the decision according to president putin, himself, in that speech. he also said, it has been replicated by the spokesman dmitry peskov, our plan is not to occupy ukrainian territory. i think there is a crucial question here for president putin. who we are told is directing this, himself. he is very much the one-man band, the man in charge. he has a group group of koshery around him, knowing how he treats them, he did that on

monday, dismissing his foreign intelligence chief an interrupting him. i think a big question for president putin at this stage is while he says his plan is not to occupy ukraine. it is clear his plan is to try to bring down the government if kiev. if he is not able to do that, if, as he may think, or made half thought, if the ukrainian people do not rally to russia, which clearly they will not or large numbers the of them will not. then what does he do? that is the nature of an invasion like this. it's been seen again and again, historically, willie, once you break a country, you own it, if you like. clearly, russia doesn't own ukraine. it's the same principle i think from officials that i have been talking to with close contact to the kremlin, some of this is being decided by putin as the days go by and i this i that putin, himself, has strategically, tactically,

militarily, will face very difficult questions in the days ahead. >> yeah, putin claims he is not prepared to occupant ukraine, bear in mind it was just days ago, a day-and-a-half ago, actually, he claimed he was not going to invade. in fact, they were peacekeepers headed over the border into ukraine. now a full-scale invasion is under way, keir simmons is in moscow. thanks so much. still ahead, we continue to cover this breaking news, a bipartisan group of senators is working to reach an agreement on a new set of sanctions against russia. we will go live to capitol hill for details on that when "morning joe" comes right back. for details on that when "morning joe" comes right back

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kiev, ukraine. george b. bush issued a statement of the invasion of ukraine just out, it read, russia's attack on ukraine constitutes the greatest security crisis on the european continent since world war ii. i join the international community in condemning put on unjustified and unprovoked invasion of ukraine. the american government and people must stand in solidarity with the ukrainian people as they choose freedom. we cannot tolerate the authoritarian bullying danger putin poses. ukraine is our friend and democratic ally and deserves our full support during this most difficult time, a statement from former president george w. bush. talking to him this morning about president bush if 2001 looking into the eyes of vladimir putin seeing into his soul an believes he was trustworthy, that was two decades ago, now it feels like a lifetime ago. >> it does feel like a lifetime

ago. i talked about that. the goal is when you first meet a new leader as you move into a new era. you want to encourage that leader to do all that he can do to move into the community of nations. i suspect president bush knew then he and many russians had a massive inferiory complex because the way that cold war ended. that was a lifetime ago, what is important is what the republicans, nom, sought all, acting reckless and irresponsible. it is good for this republican party this nation and the international community to hear a former president speak out and be shoulder to shoulder with the rest of the democratic nations and the democratic president in standing up to this aggression. so very positive important statement by president bush. >> no question. we seen a similar statement, by the way, from senator mitt romney, obviously, a republican

nominee for president as well, joining us now senior capitol hill correspondent garrett haake. congress out of session, but working on a package. we understand president biden will unveil if you sanctions, perhaps crippling sanctions this afternoon. what do you see on capitol hill? how are these negotiations being conducted? >> reporter: we are hearing of the most consensus to most controversial. first congress and the administration want to go further after russian oligarks, the folks in vladimir putin's inner circle, whether it's nor traditional sanctions or an idea like lindsey graham said the other day, pursuing their assets. there is broad consensus, that needs to be done. secondarily, what can congress do to further disarm this first phase? we seen that effort begin pre-invasion. now there is more bipartisan

interests in making sure ukraine's militaries that weapons and the material it needs to keep up the fight in whatever form that takes in the weeks ahead. then finally, probably the most controversial part, the unsettled part. of what congress is talking about and the president might have to impose, is what can you do if terms of sanctions that might have more bite and effect on the world economy and u.s. economy, things like secondary sanctions, not going over those banks, going after any entity, including in friendly nations, there is going after what's called the swift system. you can think of the international finances venmo and slack rolled into one, a system that allows international banks to communicate, send transfers back and forth, kicking russia out of that system would have enormous effects on their economy. that's one of the things advocated by folks like bob menendez, they are unknown, so there is still i think

significant debate whether that's a step that needs to be taken or not. >> all right. nbc's garrett haake, thank you so much. let's bring in the senate intelligence committee senator mark warner of virginia, you run the intel committee. let's talk about the united states. i was struck during the moeller investigation by the fact that we talked constantly of russia's hacking of the dnc then information came out that we were not, we were able identify where the base, where the attacks came from, the buildings where the attacks came from. the officers that were working on the attacks, the key strokes that were used in the attacking. it showed how extraordinary our intel services are worried. we don't talk about it a lot. let's fast forward, 2022, the intel community has gotten it right time and time again. that has to send a chilling ma edge to vladimir putin whether he's swept up in the glory of this preliminary invasion or

not. >> absolutely. the intelligence has been totally correct. and i think the intelligence community, not just ours, but the british and others, have been very forward-leaning saying if you see a coup, it is russian-inspired, if you see a video with dead people, russian cadavers, sent specific tames, this is playing out exactly as our intelligence community projected. i think that has helped. i wish the you caneians, president zelenskyy would have mobilized his forces a little bit earlier. we are seeing he only decided to call up his reserves 48 hours ago. i think that was too little too late. the two concerns, not only are what's happening on the ground is i think these 190 troops will roll over the ukrainian defense quickly. although there will be an armed insurgency afterwards. we seen images often your show and others, ukrainian citizens

training on weekends to resist the russians, so they may beat the ukrainian military. i don't think you will beat the people. the two gravest immediate concerns i have is if russia launches its full cyber attacks, further against ukraine. those cyber attacks, once you unleash them. no geographic boundaries. we have reports that system of the cyber attacks launched again ukraine have results in latvia and lithuania. if the russian decide to shut down all the power in ukraine and in eastern poland, where our troops are, you are getting pretty close to what can be an article 5 violation. i do expect you will see later today from the president serious, serious sanctions, including sanctions from all of our allies and again we can then see putin actually launch cyber attacks directly against the west and against the united states. we are in uncharted territory and i think we all ought to buckle up. >> you know, i talked about a

preliminary invasion. i meant to say an initial invasion. they are going after military bases right now. then, of course, we believe they will be going after population centers, these cyber attacks, you sucked they may reach all the way into poland, may put cyber attacks targeted against the united states. the question is, when does the united states act against russia? what is a triggering point for us to launch cyber attacks? we certainly, we have the capability f. when wanted to shut down every one of his oil pipelines, we can do it today. not that we're going to, but what is a trigger that would move this administration to start the cyber attacks against russia. >> well, joe, this has always remained a grey area. it added a position, strategic ambiguity, because you don't want to draw those lines, i actually think we need international cyber norms. we have as a country always

said, we choose the option to respond in other domains, not tit for tat in cyber escalation. the truth is once you unleash the cyber pal ware, these weapons in cyber space. you malware you don't know what will fully happen. a few years back there was a famous russian attack against ukraine. it not only shut down systems in ukraine but literally shut down hundreds of systems across the west, shut down parts of the british health care system, cost billions of dollars, even shut down systems in russia. that was one cyber weapon. russia has hundreds if not thousands of cyber weapons. the united states has as well. so it's a domain where even the experts don't know all the ramifications but it's one more tool we've got in our arsenal, but it's down an uncharted path. let me add one other thing in

terms of the earlier report. i think the biden administration has done a very good job of moving all our allies along. we've got sanctions coming not only from nato but hearing sanctions from japan, south korea, australia, other nations as well. i think the president has done a good job, for example, on nord stream 2. he wants sanctions against nord stream 12 but allowed the germans to go first, i think an important sequencing. when we talk about the swift financial system, an exclusive tool, but swift, which -- i hope we do kick the russians out, swift is actually a european entity, so it will be a lot more effective if we can bring our european allies along. i hope now them seeing the dramatic attacks, the provoked attack that russia is bringing to ukraine, the first kinetic warfare of this level in 80 years in europe that the europeans will move with us on

kicking russia out of the swift system. i think this moving our allies in tandem has been an awful lot of work behind the scenes, and we are stronger and our united front is stronger because of it. >> senator warner, as you know, history of war is limited with the unintended consequences of war. so my question to you is what is your assessment? what do you think would happen if we shut down russia's ability to export fuel, gas, gasoline, to other countries? what would happen? >> well, i think we have to have all those tools available e. i think we need to ratchet up this pressure in a systemic way with our allies. i think the president noon today will announce a number of these unprecedented sanctions. but as we get into this back-and-forth, and my background as a tech guy is a

lot focusing on the cyber domain, you know, we've never seen a full-fledged cyber conflict between nato and a tier 1 cyber power the way russia is. you go down that rabbit hole, and nobody know where is it may lead. >> senator warner, than for your time this morning. i know it's a busy day for you. we'll see what kind of sanctions come out tlater this afternoon. thanks for being with us. we want to go back to kyiv, ukraine, where we find erin mclaughlin. i understand you've had to move to a new position after there was a siren and warning that perhaps there was some incoming rocket fire. what more can you tell us? >> reporter: yeah, that's right, willie. we were in our hotel. we heard the siren go off, and an adviser to kyiv text med saying that the city had information that the russians were firing a missile from belarus towards kyiv, which is, you know, just a 3 1/2-hour drive away and that he suggested

we go to ground, so that's what we have done. i'm currently in a parking lot of the hotel. this hotel does not have a bomb shelter as so many places here in kyiv do not have bomb shelters. there's about 2.8 million places for people -- the capacity of bomb shelters. there's 3.3 million within the city, during the evening, more during the day. this is an illustration of how people are making do when there are sirens and missiles. we have gotten some confirmation from military officials in kyiv that four ballistic missiles were fired about 15 minutes ago towards the direction of kyiv and we are waiting for all-clear. i'm told the city is communicating with the military and once they say the situation is calm, then we'll be able to leave this parking garage, willie. >> we're glad you're down there and hope you're safe, erin.

this does, by virtue of you having to move down with the siren, it speaks to how on edge the country is, particularly the capital city. we've heard so far from our reporters on the ground and from intelligence that so far it's been military targets, military installations that the russian military has gone after. but is there an expectation in kyiv, in the capital city, this international capital, that there could be an attack on that city? >> reporter: well, you know, willie, the city is already under attack. everyone here in kyiv woke up this morning to the sounds of explosions and followed by sirens. and according to officials we've been speaking to, they have been primarily going after military installations. i know there was a national guard base that was struck in kyiv. also four miles from where this hotel is, they also hit the headquarters for the military

intelligence. that was struck by a missile four miles away. so, you know, they're striking targets that are in the middle of civilian areas. and whenever you have that, you also have the possibility of collateral damage. i think that at this point is what people are primarily concerned about. but keep in mind there are warnings from authorities about potential terror attacks. they're worried about people launching attacks from within. they're asking everyone to stay home and listen to the sirens. if you hear the sirens, go to ground. that is the advice from authorities. however, we are seeing a large number of people wanting to get out of kyiv, which is why we're seeing that traffic jam for those roads leading to the western portion of the country. you're seeing people line up trying to get out of the city. but the problem, again, is there's over 3.3 million people in kyiv. you can't evacuate the entire city, it's impossible, especially in a short period of

time. >> we'll check back in. nbc's erin mclaughlin for us. thanks so much. joe, this is day some people doubted would come. a lot of people said it was hysteria to suggest that vladimir putin was going to cross into ukraine, that he would go into a sovereign nation. american intelligence, western intelligence we promise this is imminent and it's coming. and today it did. >> well, mike barnicle, putin's apologist to america kept saying we were overhyping this. we weren't. the world watched, hoping diplomacy would keep vladimir putin in check. but it didn't, any more than diplomacy stopped the soviets from going into czechoslovakia in '56 and hundred dpary. those occupations ended in failure. this one will, too, mike. >> you know, joe, i'm shocked and totally disappointed at the behavior of a few republicans,

not all republicans, in their lack of support for the country, for the american people and what we're dealing with, with a global war in the ukraine. it's never happened in history, really, that a president of the united states is attacked by politicians. >> not only that, by politicians, you have an awful lot of people in the media and some politicians who have openly been siding with vladimir putin. >> yeah. >> disinformation in russia, disinformation in the united states. and a war now in ukraine. stay with msnbc all day for the latest on this breaking news story. chris jansing picks up the coverage in 90 second. have a good day. have a good day. together. wait! who else is known for nailing threes? hmm. can't think of anyone! subway keeps refreshing and re-

♪♪ hi, there. i'm chris jansing live at msnbc headquarters here in new york city. it is 9:00 a.m. on the east coast, 4:00 p.m. in kyiv, 5:00 p.m. in moscow. it's thursday, february 24th, a date that will go down in history. as we speak, we are in the opening hours of a massive invasion. overnight, russian troops launched a full-scale attack on ukraine, pushing across the border from multiple directions. we saw pictures of tanks crossing into ukraine from belarus in the north and crimea to the south. take a look athi