been reports of more explosions. nbc news reports that the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff told house members today that russian troops are now 20 miles outside of the capital. russia's war on ukraine is now in its second day. after an offensive that began 24 hours ago. moscow is now unleashed europe's largest ground conflict since world war ii. across ukraine, the invasion set off a desperate rush to take shelter. or somehow escape the attack, as others stocked up on cash. and supplies. ukraine's president volodymyr zelenskyy said at least 137 of his soldiers have been killed. he has ordered a full mobilization of the military. and he says while his family is now in hiding, he will remain in the country. although he says quote, the enemy has identified him as target number one. vladimir putin remains defiant, threatening severe consequences for anyone who tries to stop

russia. tonight he is facing a new harsher sanctions that frees russian bank assets in the united states. and cuts off access to high tech imports. >> putin is the aggressor, putin shows -- chose this war. the won't limit russia's ability to do dollars, euros, pounds, and yen. to be part of the global economy. >> the envisioned rock the financial markets which were sharply down most of the day. but didn't up closing higher. for more on sanctions and the worst potential devastating impact, with stephanie ruhle coming up. the pentagon meantime has ordered some 7000 troops, more troops to germany, to support nato forces. i want to get right to the ground in eastern europe, i want to bring in erin mclaughlin who is nbc's correspondent in kyiv, ukraine. and matt bodner is and moscow, good morning to both of you. erin 24 hours ago, you were

reporting the first action in kyiv what is the situation now? before the sun rises this morning. >> hey ali for a second day this citizens of the capital kyiv are waking up to the sounds of explosions just over one hour and a half ago. we heard very large explosion here in the center of the city. among the largest and fact that we have heard so far. according to an adviser to the minister of the anterior, a ballistic missile was fired from the direction of belarus to the capital. ukrainian officials are claiming that the city's air defense system intercepted the missile. video shows what looks like an explosion over the city. and according to the state emergency service, something struck a multi storied residential building. video shows a building here in kyiv on fire. this followed to other sort of blooms that we heard further in the distance earlier.

in the morning. but right now the situation here in kyiv is calm, calm has returned to the city. not a single person on the streets of the capital that i can see. there is a curfew that expires and about seven in the morning, local time. >> with erin what is the story to reports that troops are now within 20 miles of the city of kyiv? what does that mean? will they surrounded, are they intending to come in, do we know? >> it's unclear at this time, we know that since yesterday russian troops have been making their way in the direction of the capitol. we know earlier in the earlier morning hours yesterday. that russian troops, about 50 tanks were seen at the time crossing. crossing an intersection at the countries of ukrainian, belarus, making their way toward kyiv. there was intense fighting and the area of the true noble nuclear reactor.

there are reports that the russians have seized at that site there are also reports of intense fighting in other areas surrounding the capital. and now we are hearing from u.s. officials that there are 20 miles away. but that's as much information that we know at this point, about russian forces intend to do. will they be entering the capitol, and how the ukrainian military will interact with them? those are open questions at this point, ali. >> let's go to matt bodner in moscow. do we have any sense of russian intent on that front? there has been russia's -- american intelligence that the russians would go for kyiv and other parts of ukraine. not just those parts of eastern ukraine that they claim to be independent states. obviously we've had a full day of news reporting and moscow. and some protests around russia. what do you know about the intent of the russian forces? >> thank you ali, i think it's obvious at this point that kyiv

is their target. it's obvious at the very least that this is a much larger operation than it was initially sold 24 hours ago even to the russian public. let's not forget that what they said they were going to do was very clearly linked to the recognition of donetsk and luhansk. and their efforts to retake their claimed territory, that would be the entire region of donbas. where until 24 hours ago, most of our attention on the story from a day-to-day reporting perspective was actually focused. erin it's talking about these reports we're seeing reports of action, of strikes all across the country. russian armor formations moving in various places. so that coupled with the rhetoric. vladimir putin is saying they need to de-nazify ukraine. they need to demilitarize ukraine. this implies a large-scale operation that's basically

amounting to regime change. they're not going to use that language themselves. they won't even call this a war. we kind of have to fill in the blanks a little bit for them. with what we can just see is actually going on. their goal does appear to be no less of kyiv at this point. we will see as they actually make that move. because that would be a significant move, i think we all understand that. but regime change seems to be at the other end of this. >> thank you for your analysis, erin mclaughlin thank you for your reporting in kyiv. we will stay close to two of you for the evening. let's bring in the national political correspondent for politico. their former spokesperson for terrorism, and financial intelligence at the department of treasury. where she handled all public affairs related to sanction policies. and the retired four star u.s. army general, a decorated combat veteran of vietnam. and a former battlefield commander in the persian gulf. i am so glad that we have the three of you to help kick us off tonight. general, last night, 24 hours

ago, you are saying to me this is not shock and awe. this is not as viewers were expecting to see the skies above ukraine lighting up. that's not what they are going to see. it is highly targeted but as matt bodner was just saying, they can't do that, the russians can take kyiv without this looking like a ground war. at least in the beginning. >> first of all, there's no question that this is a massive complex air ground, the combat action by the russian armed forces. coming into ukraine on multiple axes, it looks to me as if it's assuredly an attempt to seize the entire country. restore the ukrainian armed forces, put it under a different government. the russians are being a lot more deliberate and slow pace that i would have imagined. it looks like they're trying to be discriminate in their targeting. this is not massive employment of ordinance in kyiv, and

hopefully won't be. and i think at the end of the day, the ukrainians will fight this alone, and putin is likely to achieve his military objectives. perhaps in under 90 days. but will be in a strategic disaster for having taken on this mission. the sad tragic day will be a lot of refugees in abject misery. >> betsy, what's the general says there others have said. that in the end for whatever historical reasons, ukraine is not part of nato. it has struggled with what it is as a country. despite what vladimir putin says, that is not a country, it is really a country. but it has struggled with its political system, its future, over the last 20 years. there are people who can say we can give them stuff, but ultimately they will fight this alone. evaluate that for me. >> it's a young fragile

democracy. and ukraine has gone through, and is still very much going through many of the acute growing pains that democracies go through as they emerge and come to thrive. one of the signs and ukraine that democracy was working, they have suspenseful elections. the fact that several years ago they elected a comedian, in a way that surprised a huge number of people. points to the fact that democracy in ukraine is not perfect, but it's working. and that is something that is so important to the folks that i talked to in kyiv on a regular basis. this deep sense of ownership, this deep connection they have to a system that is imperfect, a system that is flawed in the case of their country. but a system that is very much there is, and that they are very proud of. i spoke to one former zelenskyy adviser this morning, near the end of the day in kyiv yesterday. we were chatting, he said when a huge concern he has. there is going to be a massive level of slaughter on the part of the russian government --

russian military personnel. as they try to move into kyiv, as they tried to move into these large cities throughout ukraine. he doesn't see a way that putin gets to be -- gets to the objectives he wants to seize without kid killing tons and tons of people. it's just the prospect of horror it's immense. >> i think you bring up a very interesting point, that no matter how flawed a country's, or their government, or their economy. we have some conservative journalists in america saying that ukraine is a corrupt country, zero question there is a lot of corruption in ukraine. people deserve the right to self determination, they get to decide who their government is. even if they have a bad government. >> i heard -- >> i heard you talking earlier on tv with rachel about the fact that there is something on the table now that wasn't on the table 36 hours ago. that is removing russia from the swift system. we're going to talk about that later in the show. you felt that that might be a bridge too far, given what's

happened so far. i'm curious about that. what is it one has to wait for before imposing the mother of all sanctions? >> you aptly named it, it should be called the mother of all sanctions. a pretty much would be. so all financial transactions go through the swift service right. and so when you have an economy like rushes that is still integrated into the international financial system. you have europe importing 40% of their oil and gas from russia. you have hundreds of millions of dollars, i think billions of dollars of trade between the united states and russia. these are not things that we can switch off overnight. if you were to exclude russia from swift that is exactly what would happen. it is not ever, regardless of the situation, it is not a move that could be taken overnight, without ensuring that every potential backlash has been prepared for. so for the case for europe, for example, they would need to already have set up other sources for oil and gas, and

the infrastructure to support that. before making a move like that. the backlash from that would be too severe. and the thing i have been saying, if we want to be able to heat our homes right now. then we cannot exclude russia from swift so quickly. >> general, i want to ask you more about the idea of ukraine fighting this on their own. i want to put up a map of the nato alliance. ukraine is surrounded by nato countries. nato countries are by treaty compelled to defend each other. but no one is compelled by treaty to defend ukraine. >> well no question neither european union or nato member. it does have a considerable self-defense capability, i quarter of 1 million troops, a lot of reserves. we have invested -- in equipping them. not very sophisticated, almost no air force, no air defense, not a lot of mobile units. and their military has fought

quite bravely for the last eight years, 14,000 killed in confronting these separatists regimes. i think the only good news out of this, is that nato has come together. the biden team, secretary blinken, secretary austin, treasury, all of them have managed to get the germans, the french, and the brits to come aboard for the common defense policy. but look, our problem will be in the coming weeks, as the russian armed forces extremely mobile, well armed, self propelled artillery, attack helicopters, aircraft. they will confront the 50% of ukrainian armed forces, who are concentrated in the line of contact facing the two separatist regimes. they're sort of in world war i trench systems. what will happen when that battle ensues? and i think that will be the decisive moment. i think the russians will stay

out of combat in cities. i can't imagine the president of the ukraine saying we are going to go inside the city, and defend the last person in kyiv. it would be block by block fighting, we have seen a lot of that. so he declared an open city i would assume. rather than fight in the middle of a 3 million person urban area. so the decisive point is can he defeat the ukrainian armed forces in the coming weeks. >> betsy it's been kind of remarkable that everything is unfolding is exactly as the biden administration said it would unfold. they actually four months have been sharing more information with our allies in nato and non nato allies and europe. than would typically be expected for them to share. there was in fact feared that if you share that much intel it could leak but they agreed to do it nonetheless but it's been very very accurate. and the administration seems to

be willing to go out there. and tell you what will happen next. so what do they believe will happen next? >> it's a grim the proud moment for the intelligence community, these are the type of predictions that people don't want to be correct about. what we are learning tonight is that congress have been briefed. that russian troops are appearing to surrounding kyiv. with the aim of decapitating the head of ukraine. that the kremlin will ultimately control. that's a very frightening prospect. as far as the predictions that the u.s. intelligence community has made in the regards to your crane. that's the most disturbing and the most grave one. and we all have to hope that the icu could be wrong in this case. but just given the facts on the ground, given the extensive satellite imagery of the movement of russian military equipment and personnel. given just how much open source information is available about what russian troops are doing.

it certainly seems to be beyond questioning the fact that that is the direction these troops are moving towards. and it's something of course that is a existential crisis for kyiv, and ukraine. that is up. that is good for vladimir putin. it's not actually good for the people of russia because their price actually goes up. it's bad for everyone is still in the world who consumes oil, because if you don't get your gas or order from russia, which europe actually does, the price of it all goes up globally. so people filling their tax today will already have been felt the -- that is the kind of things that turns people against these wars. >> it does, except if you compare it to the cost of the medulla terry in the u.s., engaging the russian military, which president biden has said that is not an option, and i personally agree with that decision.

the cost does not seem as bad. and he said this in his speech, when he said that's the cost of freedom. so that's what he meant. and soon, there is going to be a cost on the republic. it's something that we're gonna have to publicly massage, and explain why this is important. only steps that the u.s. government seems to minimize that pain. because americans, this matters to them. these are things that they think about. that affect voting. that you, don't want to hit the pocket. when you put it in context, for why this is important, and why this matters, when i understand is -- we were talking here about a maneuver that shakes international order the way we've known it since the mid 1940s. a system that has been set up to prevent this. with the united nations and other institutions, they're basically feeling us.

and the united states can't be the world's police. this is the cause that we're gonna have to pay. the thing that i hope biden communicates and i hope you can see this in the speeches, is that this takes time. sanctions take a while. it takes a while for these global market forces to release and isolate russia further so they can feel that pain. they can be used to be bargaining chips for future negotiations. and for the ability to financially crippled the russian military. to prevent future aggression. >> time is not something a whole lot of people in ukraine feel like they've got on their side right now, but well stated. thank you for all three of you. betsy winter, serve our, and bill we appreciate that. coming up, and msnbc has confirmed that the president has decided on their pick. a white house correspondent standing by.

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you just have to stand up for a kid who isn't fluent in bureaucracy, or maybe not in their own emotions. so show up, however you can, >> today, the president rolled for the foster kids who need it most— at helpfosterchildren.com out a new round of sanctions against russia. we were talking generally about them. joining me now is nbc news white house correspondent mike melanie. mike, good to see you again tonight. the white house stopped short of expelling russia from what is known as the swift system. in which we transfer money

around the world. it is a punishment that a lot of lawmakers have called for. tell me what the thinking was, and what is happening now? >> well ali when i talk to white house officials, i really hear two things and what we have seen so far. first, they believe the sanctions that the president has already authorized on the banking system in russia on state owned enterprise in russia, on to the nord stream 2, under the oligarchic's. go far and above anything anyone expected that this administration was able to pull up. not just on the u.s. side, but in concert with our allies. i think these are severe, and will have a real impact on russia. the other thing i am hearing is that we tend to overestimate the political impact of this crisis on president biden here at home. while under appreciating the potential risks for vladimir putin and russia. i was in the white house briefing room today, as we heard, the point person on sanctions. obviously the white house press secretary, highlighting the very real effect, we have seen the stock market tumbling in russia.

the currency value dropping, the fact that foreign investment has been drying up. and pointing to the organic protests that we saw throughout rush and cities. and the independent assessments that russia's military is encountering resistance, much -- they are taking a longer view here. they want to take options like swift and reserve, as they watch for putin's next move. but they think there is a vote here among the russian people that might be stronger than the deterrence efforts from the west. >> mike memoli, i want to ask you about the decision we have been reported, that the president has determine who he will appoint to become the next associate justice of the supreme court. >> incredible to think that the president has been weighing this momentous decision, while preparing for his state of the union address. while being with this ukraine crisis. but two sources familiar with the matter tell kristen walker and i had that the president has made this final decision. as we heard from jen psaki earlier tonight, no formal awful had been made at that point she said it was not final final, but we could see an

announcement as soon as tomorrow. you can understand the white house eyeing the developments overnight in ukraine. but tomorrow is two years to the date that then candidate joe biden made that pledge on a south carolina debate stage. that he would, if he had the opportunity, nominated black women for the high court. joe biden is a student of history, and -- >> you are a student of joe biden's, and what jen psaki said. you said it here a moment ago. she said it's not final final. >> that was what she said several hours ago. we have confirmed that it has been made. the decision has been made, final final. >> final final. >> it is now final final. >> we will talk to you in the course of the night, mike memoli for us. we talked about the swift system, coming off russia from the swift system would effectively cut off most international transactions and profits to the country. it also has the potential to hurt other economies, including right here at home. here to break it down, none other than my friend stephanie ruhle. in her capacity as nbc news

senior business analyst. stephanie ruhle whom you are likely to see a lot more of and in this new time slot. because starting next week it's hers. it's good to see you, thank you for -- do i thank you? thanks for being on your show. >> thank you, ali, you're only going to see me next week if my head doesn't explode between now and then. because if i hear one more time people saying to the president why didn't you turn the swift off. or refer to it like it's a bank. it's not ours to do. you said it just a moment ago, it's not like it's a. banquet it really is is sort of a secure email network. between 200 different countries and 11,000 financial institutions. and they use this network so they can move money legally. it is a member owned, it is not owned or controlled by the u.s. government. and while the president was being peppered with questions

of why isn't the u.s. government doing this. people would realize he also said, some of our allies -- >> don't want. to >> countries that rely on it, they don't want it. >> so let's be clear. >> why would somebody pay for gas exports. >> so there is gas exports, there's people who buy things from russia and they need to be able to pay russia. then there's people who sell thanks to russia. whether it's everything from phones to computers, to aircrafts, to other sorts of technology. they also then could not sell it. in other words, if russia is off the system. can't buy, and they can't sell, which is not an argument that they shouldn't be taking off in the swift system. but the explanation as why the companies and countries are not supporting this move. theand ali, there is another issue. russia actually has its own swift rate system. it's not as good as swift, but it is okay. they suddenly weren't around to be part of swift, what would

that do? it would -- would strengthen their system. we do not want that. we do that, and the west stops to lose central control of global finance. we do not want to do that. >> so for oil prices, we still see them up. they have moderated a little bit. but brent crude, web trades in europe, is up over $100 for the first time since 2014. we have our west tech -- at the 96 to 97 cents raise. everybody in the world, including russian oil consumers are going to feel this. but it doesn't benefit russia to have a higher oil prices. >> it certainly does. and i was just listening to a previous segment, while i appreciate her guard saying that gas prices are up, it is a small price to pay in what you're thinking of what we have to pay for a military, if there was a real crime. we are not facing off democracy

versus autocracy. i hear all that. the problem is that we are in a country with millions of millions of people who are filling their tanks every day. and sadly, they are not watching us on the news at night. they may not be watching the president this afternoon. they are thinking about, how much does my life cost? how do i take care of my family? so politically, this is very difficult and this is the same people that are saying it doesn't matter what happens on the other side of the world. though it should. i'm paying for gas. and pollution is an issue. everything in my world cost more. he can only do so much, the president. we want to use our own reserve, that's a short term fix. you want to work with oil companies? that could be a solution long term. right now we're gonna have to brace ourselves. because we need to work on the nuclear deal, stuff going on in iran. there has to be a solution here. >> stephanie, last time we were

looking at stock markets that we're opening 100 points lawyer, it did actually materialize this morning, the plum in stock markets. and then it came back. you and i have all been talked about the fact that one should not often try to figure out the logic of traitors. but why do you think we ended up with green numbers at the end of the day and not bad? >> listen, at the end of the day, you will get long term investors who say look at this giant dip. long term, we're still in economic growth, even though we're dealing with short term pain. and if you look at a day like today like maybe now is my chance to bite some of those stocks that look cheap. but people should remember, we are investors, all investors want credibility. investors don't leave house within umbrella, unless they know it's raining, and they want to know if it's sunny. with vladimir putin, it's unpredictability. you heard biden say it today. he wants war in ukraine.

we don't know what to expect. and when you don't know what to expect, what do investors do? they take their chips and go home. so the capability leads to volatility. so yes we're in the green today, or higher, but we'll be right back in the red tomorrow. a time like this is going to be volatile. >> for regular people, don't trade on markets like this. stephanie it's gonna be very enjoyable next week to watch you in the slot every night. i'm so grateful to be here every night but rest here we're gonna need you for the next night. >> i can't wait to see you. thank you. ali >> reminder, look for stephanie back here every night starting next wednesday night. coming up? the impact of the russian all out a start, when we look at the crisis in ukraine as it continues. when we look at when we look at the continues. good for you, but shingles doesn't care. because 1 in 3 people will get shingles, you need protection.

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sunrise, by the way in kyiv right now. it's 6:35 in the morning there. one thing you don't see, in compared to this sign yesterday, is anybody on the street. no cars moving, no people. this is downtown kyiv, the capital of ukraine situation here. you can see one car in this distance. people in ukraine are on high alert as the russian invasion into their country continues. we reported that explosions have been recently heard in the capital of kyiv. i want to go to moscow though. this is our nbc correspondent who is standing there for the

second day of news coverage as it continues. one thing that you are telling us yesterday at this time in moscow, is that the story that russians are getting what's going on in ukraine, may differ substantially from what's actually happening in ukraine. >> that is right, ali. it's basically, the exact opposite of what we are hearing from ukrainians. it's something we can see on the ground. so, they are not calling this a war. they are assisting over and over again, the official narrative is that this is a special midler terry operation. some say that this is just a defense of the donbas region. not the actual extent of this operation's country wide. all the way into the west. into lviv, into the capital in kyiv. and they're hearing all kinds of things about how extraordinarily well it is going. that's one of the things that it is really saying. the last thing we heard,

actually from the russian health ministry was, last sweetening here. it made it a very optimistic picture about how the operation is going. putin did not acknowledge any casualties anymore. he doesn't acknowledge any casualties, something about a helicopter. but just quite recently exist saying that they've done more damage to the russians. this is something to keep an eye on. they have to sell this to the russian people as they go past -- it's not involving civilians. it's not having too much damage. it's a liberation message. they're not gonna occupy a frame that basically, russian troops believe at some point ukrainians will be able to choose their own leadership. so they did already choose the leadership they have now. we'll see what's actually going

on here. it all makes a difference in an interesting picture on wet we're seeing here. >> matt, thank you for your reporting. matt lapierre, in moscow. they're saying ukraine has likely to crime in the few days as they seek refuge across the border. for those seeking their homes, the horror is the math. >> how do you feel? >> just shattered. not myself. i don't care about my safety. i care about ukraine. and ukrainians. to see this happening to the country is just devastating. ukrainians stay strong. they need to. they're stronger than me. >> with us is clint, fbi agents and distinct research fellow at the -- , and matt. author of --

he's worked on counter-terrorism and intelligence for 35 years. and he was gathering intelligence just until today. he just returned from ukraine. where you are getting a sense from talking to people, and looking at military capabilities, what was going to happen. what is your sense of having this coming back from there now? >> it's a terrible fact, that literally everything that we saw, over the last month, has played out precisely as we thought it was going to play out. we saw precisely the routes, we drove down every route that we suspected, or knew that the invasion forces would have to take with the exception of, the donbas region around the haves. but this played out exactly as we saw. particularly, the catch on kyiv. this is what's viewers should understand. just because you don't hear about combat, and they have it move to contact, that does not

mean that russian forces are not on the move. one of the major cities that we suspected would be targeted of the six combined are -- in the northeast. major combat is going on in the middle of that city. their forces moving to block, to take positions at the crossroads. what we also advise that, the air campaign is not unfolding to be what we thought it would be. we thought the cruise missile and the ballistic missile would be much more devastating, that they would be sustained air power over ukraine. to the point of total air supremacy or air dominance. that means that ukrainian air defenses weren't taking them down the way they wanted to. and the russians are very surprised that the ukrainian army. and they're fighting, and they will fight to the end. >> the point you have been making is that every piece of intelligence that we've been getting from the u.s.

intelligence committee has been correct. and that intelligence includes what we were just talking about. that the russians would like to take kyiv, or they would like to overthrow this government. and they would use remarkable language like the not suffocation, for a president that is jewish. but they are determined. they're not using the term, regime change, but that is the goal. >> that is absolutely right. if you remember back a couple of weeks ago, there was a man in the white house about an intelligence committee about the crew to replace zelenskyy. it was a part of the plan to take ukraine, yes, the military invasion you see was a top of the government almost simultaneously, making chaos where they would need to go into kyiv and try to seize them militarily. i think what you're seeing now is literally presidents the lewinsky saying there are saboteurs inside. and he is target number one

inside ukraine. that they need to remove the political leadership to completely destabilize the country. try to make them submit. so they don't have to do full mile by mile, block by block, military invasion of ukraine. that is gonna play out in a very interesting way. i think the u.s. intelligence in the middle intelligence partners, we'll have ukraine prepare. and part of the reason why ukraine was able to really sustain today, and keep things going, they were underestimated from what i have seen so far. i think that was an important parcel the way, a televisions kept the morale, and help them prepare for that fight. today >> malcolm, yesterday when vladimir putin announced this, he made a strange reference. something that everybody knows but was surprised that he said. he remind the world that they are in nuclear power. it's enough some alarm bells around the world. the intelligence and defense workers say, why do they do that?

why do you think he did that? >> because he wanted to remind everybody that russia was a nuclear power. and they have the capability to come to an ultimate defense. if it came to that. mutually assured destruction. i've seen a full scale assimilated attack of russia, destroyed not just the united states, but the world. but the threat that they could use theater or tactical ballistic met the that would have a nuclear capability is also a blessing, mainly towards nato. you have to understand, back in the 70s and 80s, there was a huge fear in western europe about united states and russia getting into an exchange of the other level ballistic missiles, and, the russian assets 20. there was a huge anti nuclear movement for that. i think putin is nostalgic for that movement in germany, and

other countries. but the threat is there. that's not gonna help them in ukraine. let me tell you, one of the questions i had while i've been running around the country, was meeting with soldiers and members of the armed forces. and the military command was, tell us about those ieds in america in america afghanistan. these guys went to fight for ever. and they are gonna make every russian, and russian tank there -- . it's gonna be a javelin festival. they're gonna destroy any tank ambushes. and they're not gonna surrender. even if the lewinsky was incapacitated, i met the general surgeons and commander of the armed forces. this guy is not gonna surrender. they're gonna go full -- . >> i get the sense of the enthusiasm of the russian fighters. but, clint, as you look at their preparedness, and they're going up against the russian military? one of the most trained and

populated militaries in the world. malcolm is right, they're prepared to fight! but what happens in the end of nato cannot come to the fence. we keep sending troops to these nato countries around ukraine, but none of them are in ukraine, and they cannot go into ukraine! >> that is exactly right, ali, day one of -- . it's about motivation and morale, it's about who wants to fight and who wants to when. day 14 it's about math and it's about logistics. that's one thing we're gonna see unfold. no matter what happens. unless ukraine gets assistance from outside. just look and the run on oil and fuel that just happened just this week. you can see people screaming out of the countries. where the fighter is gonna come from to replace? where is the ammunition gonna be replaced from? it's just basic humanitarian surprise evil to be conducted. even though we're in the ukraine -- . i just think throughout all of this, the one thing that just

brings them right to the point where they could match sibley matchup against these military members. one thing i do want to know is that i have a question about the russian military in there today. they knew how long they were gonna be, there they knew how long they were going to invade even in 24 hours, you can see the confusion of some of the tapes that come out of their. i don't think the moral -- but even if you're russian, and you stack those that are on it for the long haul, the -- and the really heavy harder hits behind it. it's gonna be a tough fight for ukrainians. i think across the board, they're gonna have to find a partnership, or a way to get food, fuel, ammunition, and weapons back into the country soon so they can sustain the fight. >> between the two of you you have military and intelligence experience which is useful to fat what's going on. i appreciate you both.

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putin's upper hand. and some of his ideas, they are just so far gone. the idea that you're going to de-knots a fire neighbor, who everybody knows has a democratically elected jewish president. i do think they're hard to understand, and i think that people are getting across their heads a little bit about what is going on. >> presidents of history, reacting to the shocking claims from the president to justify the attacks on ukraine. historian michael, his work is more relevant than other. his book is presidents of war.

obviously, joe biden is president during a war. but the u.s. is in a precarious position here. joe biden is trying to piece back the alliance that donald trump has weekend, so that the world can have a unified approach to russia. how is he doing with that? >> he is trying. but his presidents are said for years with a crowbar to try to break up nato. and dedicated around the world. maybe it was a mystery to people when donald trump was president, while he was trying to do that. if you are now looking at what he did with the full knowledge of putin's attack on ukraine, which we could've only expected at the time that trump was president, maybe it makes a little bit more sense that trump was trying to make it easier for him. >> i want to put up time magazine cover called the return of history. how putin shattered europe streams. and the picture here looks like

tanks of old. historians like you will look to some incidences in 1938, tibetan land in 1939, in poland. which hitler used very similar language and justification to go into countries that were not germany, to protect ethnic germans within that place. that of course led to world war ii. >> that is for sure, and i don't think biden or putin are a big mystery of history. but they do use history to try to get power, and keep it in their hands. but just as you're saying ali, just as you said in 1938, hitler was trying to make a point that there were german speakers and german ethnics that were being infiltrated. and therefore germans should get that land. sounds familiar. just what putin has been saying about those two areas in eastern ukraine. that is not a coincidence. and the other favor that putin

has had extremely closely, for obvious reasons, is joseph stalin. and all of the lessons you will find stalin, he felt that if you exercise power ruthlessly, it will make people fear you and admire you more. one of the things that stalin was noted for saying, he said, one murder is a tragedy. 1 million murders is a statistic. that's classic stalin. sounds, once again, like someone we are watching. >> on the current term of the not suffocation yesterday, and for those of you watching the 2013 protests in ukraine, and the claiming of crimea. they were also of thirds to undermine the protesters, that were suggesting that they are nazis or neo-nazis in that crowd. the presidents of ukraine's jewish, the former prime minister is also jewish.

tell me about this denazification thing? >> not only jewish, but as you know, his father, he has three family members who are lost to the holocaust. and his father fought with the russians in world war ii, because the russians were fighting against the nazis. this is how orwellian this is. but that's very much -- not so much in russian history, but putin's addendum irie student of soviet history. things we thought were discarded after 1991. when the soviets rolled into prague in 1968, or when they committed those bloody acts in the streets, putin is pulling down another revolution. in 1956, they did so by claiming to the people that they were trouncing for something other than that they were. i have to assume also that the people around putin, perhaps putin himself, there's some sort of perverse joy they take

in slamming president zelenskyy. saying that this person who had gone through the holocaust -- his family have gone through the holocaust, jewish himself, was somehow a nazi. >> i want to put back with the nato alliance look like in 1978, versus what it looks like now. while we're mid busting let's talk about this. for a while, and what we're talking two, vladimir putin -- 's is that you pushed back russia into a corner, because these countries that were not nato countries that have now become nato countries, this is what it looked like in 1978. now look at what it looks like when you put all these nato countries into it. russia is making the argument that, you force us into this. >> well, number one, that is totally a star analyst argument. he was entitled to have countries that were -- and that is why at the end of world war ii, he said he was

entitled to eastern europe, to have a quarter of, at least friendly or even in neutral nations, to be protected. once again, the stolen language is being used here. but the other thing is here, that the revolutions of 1989 in the eastern europe. the end of the soviet union in 1991. those countries chose freely to go to nato for protection. and you said earlier in the program alley, one thing we stand for in the world's self determination. the ability for people to choose their own future. >> even if they make bad choices? even if their governments are bad? even if the countries are corrupt! people still have the choice to make their own decisions! about their future. because lots of people make bad choices. but that doesn't allow other countries to go in! >> we do sometimes in this country. >> that's right, thank you

michael appreciate it. michael is a notable historian and the author of presidents of war. that's our coverage while the attack on ukraine continues. attack on ukraine continues. (tennis grunts) pnc bank believes that if a pair of goggles can help your backhand get better yeah! then your bank should help you budget even better. virtual wallet® is so much more than a checking account. its low cash mode℠ feature

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