good to be with you, i'm katy tur. it is 3:00 p.m. in new york and 10:00 p.m. in kyiv, ukraine, and here is what we know right now. the ukrainian government is still in control of the capital city, but russian forces are trying to advance. releasing a bombardment of russian missiles from the sky, video showed a missile striking a residential building in kyiv just hours ago. ukraine's minister for foreign affairs says that russian artillery killed two and injured at least six others. that strike prompted a sudden and chaotic evacuation of that building and urgent search and

rescue efforts. more video captured what was believed to be a russian tank driving erratically through the streets of kyiv and rolling over a civilian car driving past. incredibly, the driver survived. and yet at this hour, the city of kyiv is holding the ukrainian military is putting up a fight and getting help from everyday citizens who are picking up arms with little or no training to stand against the russians. nbc's erin mclaughlin spoke with one man who was prepared to join their ranks. >> i'm going to my family, to stay with them. >> reporter: do you know how to use that? >> to tell the truth, i'm not good at it, but i understand. i just need to have some -- to find some quiet place and figure out how it works. >> reporter: you're going to google it, basically? >> yeah, google, youtube. it's not that difficult. probably. i hope i will not use it.

but in case, i will get prepared. >> also among those fighting in the streets of kyiv is former ukrainian president petro poroshenko, speaking with sky news, he had strong words for vladimir putin and the rest of the world. >> putin will meet hell, and the russian people and the russian soldier who come here to kill ukrainians will pay the big price. but we should understand that this war is not about ukraine. this war is about you, our dear partners, about the west, about free world, because everybody -- nobody knows where tomorrow will appear putin. >> kyiv is just one of three cities currently being targeted by russian forces. the other two, kharkiv in the northeast and the south. the russians are growing

increasingly frustrated by their lack of progress around kyiv and kharkiv, surprised by the strength of the resistance. ukraine's president, volodymyr zelenskyy, is vowing to keep fighting in a new address moments ago, he told the world, quote, ukrainians are in their homeland and will never give it to anyone, never betray. and he is again asking for support after yet another offer to help him evacuate kyiv, zelenskyy told the united states, quote, i need ammunition, not a ride. at the same time, the u.s., alongside european allies, continue to send supplies to ukraine. that does include weapons, and for the first time, it also includes lethal artillery from germany, which up until now had refused to arm ukraine. germany's chancellor just announced his country will supply 1,000 anti-tank weapons and 500 stinger missiles. the country is also lifting its ban on other countries sending german-made weapons. we'll get to why germany changed

its mind in a moment. we'll also go to moscow where our own keir simmons reports that support for vladimir putin might be shifting. joining me now is nbc news foreign correspondent matt bradley in dnipro ukraine, and courtney kube. matt, you are in the south central portion of ukraine. what is the latest there? >> reporter: yeah, i mean, the situation here, this is a city that hasn't gotten a lot of bombardment, but nevertheless, i think it kind of speaks for every city throughout ukraine. it is so tense here. it is just girding for the worst, and you can see it in the people's faces. you can see it walking around the streets. there are soldiers manning every sort of corner, and if you're walking around there, you can expect to be stopped, you can expect to be frisked, and everybody is completely on edge, and another thing we've been seeing, people tearing down signs because when the russians do invade, they want to confuse them and not be able to have them find their way around the

streets. and we're also seeing signs of people who are packing up, getting ready to fight the russians themselves with their bare hands. they're learning how to make molotov cocktails. they're learning all sort of new defensive techniques like, essentially, being given guns, being told how to use them. whether or not this works in practice, it's hard to say. it worked in the past. the last time russia invaded back in 2014. so, i think ukrainians can reasonably expect that if it comes to hand-to-hand fighting by civilians in the street, they will be able to organize and create an effective deterrent. the man behind all of this esprit d'c was president zelenskyy. he mentioned that a young girl had been born in the metro in kyiv and he said, if we have children being born in metros, in shelters, how can the

russians stop us when we have this strong sense of defensiveness and fighting against them, this strong sense of nationhood. but it's extraordinary how this man has transformed himself through his public addresses to the nation from a skeptic that vladimir putin would ever invade, someone who was tamping down the possibility that this would ever happen, to someone who then was chastising the west in munich in front of the entire woshlgsd telling them, why haven't you helped us more? to someone who finally, in the end, was actually speaking in russian, addressing the russian people, asking them to stop the fighting because vladimir putin wouldn't pick up his phone call. well, last night, and today, and in the last couple of days, he has been really a rock solid presence over social media in the lives of ukrainians, and we saw that when he had that famous selfie with himself, he introduced the head of the party, and the prime minister and said, we're all here. we're all still in kyiv. and we'll keep fighting. katy? >> matt, let's talk about -- first of all, a woman giving

birth in the metro is amazing and also horrifying. let's get that clear. what else can you tell us, though, about germany shifting? germany had long been hesitant to get involved with weaponry. why did they change their mind now? >> reporter: yeah, i mean, that's another really interesting, one of the big geopolitical stories surrounding this because germany had been so cautious under chancellor olaf scholz, who, by the way, has really been in office very little, and he was often compared to his predecessor, angela merkel, who had stood up to vladimir putin back in 2014 and since then, and now he was really just chastised, belittled in front of the international community for his refusal not only to provide lethal aid to the ukrainians but even to allow lethal aid to fly over german air space. we saw these maps where, you know, british aid had to fly around germany in order to reach ukraine because he didn't want to be associated with it. and in the end, he provided something like 5,000 helmets to

the ukrainians, and he wouldn't even let germans go into ukraine to deliver the helmets. the ukrainians had to go out of the country and pick up the hemis and bring them in. that has all changed just today. we started to see that he has provided now 1,000 anti-tank weapons and 500 stinger missiles. he's also said that he's going to create some sort of limited, you know, block on that s.w.i.f.t. system, which has been the financial system. that's been the big issue around how to sanction vladimir putin. remember, president joe biden stopped short of removing russia from the s.w.i.f.t. system. that's something that dmitry kuleba, the foreign minister of ukraine, has been constantly saying, we need to kick russia out of the s.w.i.f.t. system, which has been seen in the west as the nuclear option. now olaf scholz of germany seems to be proceeding with that nuclear option, getting russia out of the s.w.i.f.t. system so it looks as though olaf scholz,

having been ridiculed for so long for his weakness in front of vladimir putin is now not only stepping up with the rest of the international community and the nato countries and doing things like blocking the nord stream 2 pipeline, another node of conflict between himself and the other european powers, but now, he might even be taking the lead. katy? >> we keep showing, courtney, the strike of that missile on an apartment building and it's not to be gratuitous. it is at least in part because it's the reality of the war there. and you know, it's unusual to get this sort of imagery from the moments of the war, almost immediate moments of the war. this broadly. but because we have social media, we can see what's happening, and i wonder, from an -- a u.s. intelligence perspective, when they look at what's on the ground there in kyiv and they see that the russian army, which was, by all accounts, supposed to easily run over the ukrainian army quickly, they're still not in kyiv. what does u.s. intelligence make

of that? >> reporter: yeah, what's really remarkable is a lot of our viewers may not realize how much, in a situation like this, the u.s. military and u.s. intelligence collection relies on social media and actually on media and what they're seeing and what they're reporting and that's a good example of it where you see something that's happening, you know, virtually as it's happening, and it gives the u.s. a sense of more of their collection for the situation on the ground there because remember, not only are there no u.s. troops there right now, but u.s. intelligence assets have really been degraded since now there's an -- the air space there is contested. the u.s. isn't flying manned or unmanned surveillance assets over there, so they have lost a lot of their ability to gather information about what's going on, on the ground, but one thing is this -- the early assessment was the u.s. military, the u.s. intelligence, they had an assessment several weeks ago that once this large invasion started, there would be two

lines of effort moving into kyiv, one from belarus, moving around chernobyl and the second one from a little town in far western, also moving down. the idea was russia was likely to hit the area around there, any kind of ukrainian military assets with air strikes, cruise missile strikes, whatever they needed to sort of take out defenses and then bring tanks and russian troops in, isolate the city and ultimately take it. there were some assessments that that could be done in the first 48 hours, maybe as much as the first 4 days, but what we are hearing now from senior defense officials is that, in fact, the russian efforts have been slower than what the u.s. anticipated and what the u.s. believes russia anticipated. they've also had some logistical hiccups. it turns out that according to a u.s. assessment, they believe that russia is having to use more of their logistical supplies faster, more than they expected, and that that's causing a hiccup, but beyond that, it's really the ukrainian

military resistance that has caused this major speed bump to the russians getting into the capital city as fast as some experts believed that they would and it's not just kyiv. there's another major line of effort coming into ukraine from the eastern side of ukraine, the far western side of russia, from a town in russia called belgrade moving into kharkiv. there is major heavy fighting going on there. matt bradley probably knows it well. he spent some time there, but there's still continued heavy fighting going on there and the u.s. assessment is that russia thought they would be able to go into kharkiv, again, surround, isolate the city, and then even move beyond there to the dnipro river, much faster than they have been able to but in fact they have met a lot more resistance than expected. the question is, the big, you know, issue right now is, this is what's happening so far. this is sort of a snapshot in time. as russia -- if they are able to

overrun the ukrainian military in some of these areas, the pace could change. it could pick up. but i think what's key here to remember is that the ukrainian military we've been hearing about, that they would stand up, they would resist, we are seeing that happen in multiple places now, katy. >> courtney, i want to ask about what secretary blinken, i think you mentioned him a minute ago, but a little bit more about what secretary blinken announced this morning, that there would be $350 million in military aid. i think a lot of people are asking, one, what is that, and then two, how do they get it into the country right now? >> reporter: so, those are two really good questions. we don't have a whole lot of fidelity on what exactly is in this. unlike the german government, who came out and gave us numbers of anti-armor and anti-aircraft, which, by the way, that's exactly what ukraine needs right now. they need anti-armor, like javelins, things that take out tanks, russian tanks, and they need anti-air like stinger missiles that they can shoot up and take out these russian

aircraft. that is literally exactly what ukraine needs right now. the u.s., we know a lot less about it. they're going to provide them some nonlethal aid and ammunition. we know there's javelins, also anti-tank but we don't know a lot more about that, even at this point, hours after this announcement. one of the big issues, though, is the air space over ukraine is contested. that means that the russian military really controls some if not much of the air space there, but the ukrainian military is still able to fly. that's why we can't quite say that it's a russian military owned air space. but what we can say is it's difficult, if not impossible, for the u.s. to get any kind of aircraft in there with weapons and supplies. there's talk of potential ground routes, but our colleague, leigh ann caldwell and i have some reporting that in a briefing to congress on thursday, late afternoon, secretary austin, secretary blinken, and chairman of the joint chiefs, general mark milley, told members and staff that that's one of the big logistical issues right now is

how are they able to get this stuff safely into the ukrainian military without either the russian military knowing about it and striking it, or trying to intercept it and steal it away. it's a big loeshsal hurdle, and because of that, and because of the operational security concerns, we don't exactly know how the u.s. is doing that or plans to do that in the coming days, katy. >> i wonder one other thing on that. would it be american troops or americans bringing it in? would that be a violation -- okay, no. tell me how it would be handed over? >> reporter: definitely not american troops. americans, possibly, contractors, possibly. you know, it's -- there's -- i've heard some speculation about ways they could do it but i really -- i take the u.s. at their word that they are very concerned about this material actually getting to the ukrainian military, so they're being really careful about talking about how they would get it in. i think it's fair to say that it would be most likely brought in via ground, but they're being really quiet in order to protect

it, the shipment. >> that makes sense. >> about saying how it would get in, but i can tell you one thing. it will not be u.s. troops. >> that does make sense. courtney kube, thank you so much. and joining me now from the outskirts of kyiv is "wall street journal" chief foreign affairs correspondent. thank you so much. it's good to see you. last time we were talking to you, you were on the streets of kyiv. right as the invasion started. it was before anything had gotten to kyiv. people were making a run on supermarkets to get supplies. there was also a crazy back-up to get out of the city. now that we are a few days in, now that there are missiles striking apartment buildings in kyiv, tell me what it is like there. >> well, i'm actually in the very heart of kyiv right now and we do hear gunfire outside and we hear explosions. the city's under curfew now so people aren't allowed to leave until monday morning because the ukrainian military says they have to basically mop up the

city after russian sort of strike groups in syrian clothing, many of them, have penetrated the city's defenses and have engaged in these fire fights. so what we have seen is literally thousands of civilians who have been issued arms and a sort of operated as a militia organized by the career military of the -- of ukraine, going around, manning checkpoints, checking cars, and being really on the lookout for the russian saboteurs and the russian spies. people are very suspicious. people are on edge. and you know, they do have the guns at the ready. >> i want to focus on that, the russian saboteurs, the russian spies. there's a worry in the ukrainian government that anybody out that should not be out is not a ukrainian but a russian? >> yeah. correct. because they have caught, you know, there have been a large number of russian infiltrators who came out in the open in the last couple of days. often in civilian dress and there was a car that tried to

attack the parliament yesterday. there were others that tried to attack other government buildings. and so, the worry is this sort of takeover from within. and that's why the ukrainian military has imposed this curfew for a day and a half, banning, basically, civilians from being in the streets so they can go around and look for those people and neutralize them. >> yaroslav, the president, president zelenskyy, staying in the country. he's been offered evacuation by the united states. he says he's turned it down. he says he need ammunition, not a ride. what does that mean to the people of kyiv? are they emboldened by that? >> i think so, yes. the russian media, you know, keeps putting out all these reports that he wants to flee, he has fled, he's not really there so it's important for president zelenskyy to show that he is in kyiv, that he is commanding the ukrainian military during this invasion by russia, and so he does post

selfies of himself outside the presidential palace, the landscape that many ukrainians are very familiar with. and gives briefings every three or four hours on the course of the war, on the course of the negotiations, on the sort of assistance that ukraine is getting from its foreign partners, such as germany that has now offered finally to provide weapons for ukraine to defend itself. >> what are you going to do if it gets worse? >> well, you know, we'll see. >> i guess that is the only answer you can have in the middle of all this. there are a lot of people who have left. there's a lot of people who have taken up arms themselves. i know men are not allowed to leave the country between the ages of 18 and 60. have you witnessed any of the good-byes between families? >> well, i think the good-byes are very rushed. it's very hard to get out of the city. there are long, long, long lines of people.

and the highway going west was blocked last night and -- because one of the bridges was blown up so people have to take very circuitous routes outside of kyiv as they seek places in western ukraine where there is little fighting. the city looks empty. only the grocery stars and pharmacies are still open. there's maybe a third to half of the population is still here, sitting at home, sitting in bomb shelters, sitting in the basements and in metro stations during the bombings and then the younger and fitter members patrolling the streets as part of this new territorial defense militia. >> it is incredible. it is incredible indeed. yaroslav, thank you so much for joining us and please do stay safe. coming up next, seeking safety. what's being done to help the tens of thousands of ukrainian refugees who have fled to poland's border. plus defense officials say russia's assault is not going as easily or as quickly as they

anticipated. we're going to look at how the ukrainians have been able to slow their advance. and later, unease in russia. hundreds arrested as russians protest in defiance of their own government. d as russians protest in defiance of their own protest in defiance of their own government 2a's monitoring his money with a simple text. like what you see abe? yes! 2b's covered with zero overdraft fees when he overdraws his account by fifty bucks or less. and 2c, well, she's not going to let a lost card get her stressed. am i right? that's right. that's because these neighbors all have chase. alerts that help check. tools that help protect. one bank that puts you in control. chase. make more of what's yours. looking to get back in your type 2 diabetes zone? once-weekly ozempic® can help. ♪ oh, oh, oh, ozempic®! ♪ ♪ oh, oh, oh ♪ ozempic® is proven to lower a1c. most people who took ozempic® reached an a1c under 7 and maintained it.

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it's very serious. i mean, obviously, families are backed up for 25, 29 hours in some places. the numbers coming over are increasing by 30%, 40%, 50% every day, and it stems from putin's increasing brutality and the way he has sent missiles and shell fire and tanks into civilian centers. >> the united nations says russia's invasion of ukraine could trigger europe's largest refugee crisis since world war ii. already more than 150,000 people have fled ukraine to neighboring

countries, crossing checkpoints to safety without their husbands, fathers, or sons who are staying behind to fight. u.n. aid agencies estimate another 100,000 ukrainians have been displaced internally, and they warn that with dwindling fuel, cash, and medical supplies, up to 4 million people could attempt to flee the country as the war continues. nbc news foreign correspondent kelly cobiella is in poland. >> reporter: here in poland at the border crossing, things have gotten even busier over the past 24 hours. if you take a look behind me here, over my shoulder, you can see a group of people waiting on the lawn on this side of the fence. those are, many of them, friends and family of ukrainians, waiting, and some have been waiting for hours, if not a day or more, for their relatives to come across the border. and just beyond the fence, you see a line of people walking in this way. those are people who have made it finally across the border

after waiting in the cold, in the elements with no supplies, with just whatever they could carry in their suitcases as they left their towns. sometimes tens if not dozens of miles away to get to this border crossing and to get to some safety. women and children are still coming over today. many of the children, quite young. you see here, some families who have just arrived, bringing their suitcases and belongings with them. but men of fighting age, 18 to 60, 65, we've heard, as well, are being told that they can't leave ukraine, that they have to stay to fight, and we've actually also seen some men arriving here at the border crossing, men who are working in europe and sending money back to their families, and they've arrived to go back into ukraine. they've heeded that call from leaders in ukraine and are going back in to fight. >> the images of mothers and of

little kids, it's just heartbreaking. unimaginable. up next, the military tactics russia is employing as it lays siege to ukraine and general barry mccaffrey will join me to discuss how the ukrainians have been able to slow russia's advance. e to disce ukrainians have been able to slow russia's advance. start here. walgreens makes it easy to stay protected wherever you go. schedule your free covid-19 booster today. when i get a migraine, i shut out the world. but with nurtec odt that's all behind me now. nurtec is the first and only option proven to treat and prevent migraines with one medication. onederful. one quick dissolve tablet can start fast and last. don't take if allergic to nurtec. the most common side effects were nausea, stomach pain, and indigestion. with nurtec, i take on migraines my way. what's your way? ask your doctor about nurtec today.

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after a night of explosions, the ukrainian government is still in control of kyiv, even as russian troops move closer to the ukrainian capital. according to the british ministry of defense, the bulk of russia's forces are within 20 miles of kyiv, but the ukrainian army and air force are putting up a staunch resistance and inflicting greater casualties than the kremlin anticipated. our pentagon team is reporting the u.s. is seeing indications that the russians are growing increasingly frustrated by their lack of progress. joining me now is msnbc military analyst and retired four star general barry mccaffrey. general, thank you so much. a lot of people are surprised by

the time it is taking russia to get to these capitals. and as i just said, our intelligence thinks that russia's pretty frustrated by it. what exactly is going on, and what can you make of this? >> well, the thing you have to really focus on, it seems to me, is the incredible political courage of president zelenskyy and his senior civilian leadership, never mind the ukrainian military, which is put up a fight. they have courage. they're having -- they're calling up the reserves. people are taking part in militia defense units, all of which indicates a very strong stance by the ukrainians against this massive russian assault. we've got to remind ourselves, this is day four coming up of the assault. the russians have made no serious attempt yet to capture kyiv, kharkiv, or other major

metropolitan areas. they're on the outskirts, we're seeing a reconnaissance, gru, spets units trying to encircle and destabilize the capital. if the russians go after kyiv, and they probably don't want to, it could be a bloody mess and a terrible optics worldwide. they'll go in there at five, six, ten tank battalions at the same time. we haven't seen that. so, let's be filled with admiration but i'm most encouraged by germany stepping forward now, visibly, and saying we're standing with the ukrainians with lethal aid, and also the hundred other venues now that are communicating back to russia, they're out of line. phil harmonic conductors being told they can't enter the united states. norwegians telling them they won't be allowed to compete in ski events.

so in a hundred ways, the world community is telling putin and his senior military leaders, you've made a dreadful mistake. >> i wonder, again, we -- all indications are that the ukranians are putting up a much stronger fight than was anticipated. they are arming everyday civilians and i know you said if they do try to take the capital city, it will get bloody. is there a chance that ukraine will be able to fend off the russian army, at least the ground army here, and if they do, is there a risk that putin does then something potentially even worse? >> is there a risk that what, katy? >> putin does something even worse, uses, you know, bombs the city? >> yeah. well, look, what i think ukrainians are capable of is causing so many russian military casualties and also having so many other political diplomatic and economic lines of reaction going into the russian people that it creates a new political

calculus on the part of putin and his senior people, where finally the generals come forward and say, this isn't going to look good for us and the oligarchs say, our money's being frozen. that's possible given the enormous courage of the ukrainians, every bit of the population coming together on this, and surprisingly, to include the russian-speaking areas. who don't want to fall under putin's domination. >> i wonder if he is able -- i'm sorry, general. i didn't mean to interrupt you, but i wonder if putin is able to take the city, and he's able, say, to install a new government, is he going to be able to get control of the military and the people, and how do you hold a city when the people, everyday individuals, are vowing to fight you off no matter what? >> well, the phase we're in right now, though, what the russian armed forces are trying to do is defeat and destroy the

ukrainian armed forces. they're not yet occupying. they're certainly not trying to put up a puppet government yet. they probably have planning going on. they have agents inside the ukrainian government, but there right now, they've got to beat the ukrainian army in the field, and they're setting about that, and they have not yet committed a substantial amount of their forces. we're watching uncamouflaged russian military vehicles lined up, bumper-to-bumper. they're not yet in combat. what's happening in the eastern part of ukraine is what most interests me. that's where the bulk of the ukrainian armed forces are. how are they doing? they're doing pretty well, apparently. we gave them these javelin anti-tank missiles. it's an hour to train somebody. it's a fire and forget missile we've giving them stingers and the germans are sending more in so the russians are losing

helicopters and transports. they've got to just bloody the russians' nose and if they come into kyiv, and there's a house-to-house, block-to-block battle, the problem is it will destroy the city and cause immense civilian casualties. i think the russians will do that if forced to. >> i had this from the "new york times," the civilian resistance in ukraine received instructions from the military on how to stop the russians' advance. they were told to destroy a road if they saw tanks passing along it because fuel trucks were sure to follow it. they were told to burn a forest if they spotted russian vehicles there and to shoot out tires on military vehicles if they had rifles and could shoot from a distance. above all, the ministry advised people to keep themselves safe but make life for the russian army as difficult as possible. and it seems like that is what's happening right now. general barry mccaffrey, thank you so much for joining us on this saturday. i know we're going to talk to you again very soon.

>> good to be with you. and up next, hundreds of protesters arrested in russia. vladimir putin facing anger at home over his invasion of ukraine. is his support cracking? we're going to be live in moscow. and the dissent rising up from prominent russians and among the children of russian officials. russians and among the children of russian officials. but so is your sound engineer. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire

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and nutrients to support immune health. russian leader vladimir putin alone made the decision to

invade ukraine, and we are seeing evidence that many russians do not support his decision. the video you are seeing is from anti-war protests in st. petersburg today. dozens of individuals publicly opposing the invasion, despite strict laws against protesting. according to the monitoring group, ovd info, nearly 2,800 people have been arrested at protests since thursday morning. joining me now from moscow is nbc news senior international correspondent, keir simmons. so, keir, a lot of people on the streets. what exactly is the mood there in moscow, and what about those who are close to vladimir putin? >> reporter: well, that's right, there have been a lot of people out on the streets, and we're now hearing tonight here in moscow that the total number of arrested in the past few days now exceeds 3,000. as you do rightly point out, it is great risk to protest here, so i think those pictures tell you something about the opposition to president putin's

war in ukraine, but it doesn't tell you everything. there is a lot more going on below the surface, and in terms of close allies to president putin, i was listening to you talk to general m mccaffrey befe the break and there is one close ally of president putin that i believe is worth a brief focus on and that is a ukrainian oligarch and leader of the opposition in ukraine, and get this, katy. president putin is godfather to his daughter. now, that tells you some really important things. firstly, potentially, it tells you that president putin may be getting information, intelligence from this man in ukraine who he's incredibly close to. he may be telling president putin that ukrainian people will rise up, want the russian forces there, those kinds of things and that may not be turning out to be the case. another aspect too, though, it really underscores the close ties between the russian people and the ukrainian people, even the president himself is godfather to a ukrainian

oligarch's daughter. now, he is in ukraine. so it is possible that the russians are treading carefully, despite their fire power, because they have these connections to ukraine, but secondly, because they know that the potential damage that it would do if there is huge bloodshed in ukraine and that is shown on russian television, even if it's not shown on russian television, everybody in russia pretty much has someone they know in ukraine that they could phone and they can find out and what we are seeing now, katy, is an extraordinary level of opposition. just to summarize a little bit, because there is a fair amount now, 200 russian journalists signing a petition against the war. artists, including the director of the bolshoi, the famous ballet, signing a petition against the war, a lawmaker here who voted for president putin earlier in the week now saying, i didn't vote for kyiv to be bombed.

so, president putin is fighting on multiple fronts, not just in ukraine now and it doesn't look as if it's necessarily going to plan, perhaps you could say war never does, but also domestically here, and then also on the international front, with china abstaining at the security council overnight, with hungary, viktor orban, that right-wing leader there, coming out against president putin's war in ukraine, and even appearing to back removal -- russia's removal from the s.w.i.f.t. payment system. it is -- you have to be careful, katy, because this is an autocracy. this is president putin's russia. but there do appear to be a number of tipping points taking place. just one, and you mentioned it before the break in the tease, the children of oligarchs and even the daughter of a russian official, going on social media, according to reports, and protesting against the war. it's pretty stunning. >> it is pretty stunning, and again, as you said, it is an autocracy, and the people rising

up is not necessarily something that would change vladimir putin's mind. i wonder, though, as the west does try to tighten its grip around not just the west, much of the world, tries to tighten its grip around russia financially, what sort of pressures might he be facing among those who are helping him stay in power, the oligarchs surrounding him? >> reporter: yeah. well, there are -- there is a -- well, yeah, there are the oligarchs, but then there is, frankly, the real inner circle, and that is really a handful of men, almost all former kgb, known him for decades. those are the people that really are in his ear, if you like. that being said, though, we did see a stunning moment earlier in the week where president putin, on television, basically took down, interrupted and told him to sit down, the chief of russia's foreign intelligence agency, the svr.

that's the equivalent of the cia. and you saw that, and this is a man who's known president putin for 40 years. you saw that and you just thought, if someone as close to president putin as that gets treated like that by him, what kind of advice is he giving? is he telling president putin what he wants to hear? and of course, when it comes to a war, intelligence is everything. again, that's the chief of the foreign intelligence service. intelligence is everything. is it possible that the leader of russia now doesn't -- isn't getting the information that he needs, and as we know, believes in his own opinions more than anything else, and has he made a miscalculation here? it's way too early. we're four days in. and again, plans always change in war, so as you rightly pointed out before the break, we could see terrible bloodshed. we could see president putin double down, if you like, but again, there are many, many questions tonight. >> keir, i think it's important that you say that everybody in russia knows somebody in ukraine so russian state tv can go and

put all the propaganda they want on television about what's happening, but you can get a text message from your friend who lives in kyiv or your friend who lives in kharkiv or your friend in lviv or your friend who had to cross the border to poland and leave their boyfriend or their father or their son behind. >> right. >> which is going to cut through any of that propaganda. one last question, i'm totally out of time, but i am curious. are you hearing any rumblings from anybody there, anybody in your government sourcing, about vladimir putin's state of mind, about his mental state? >> reporter: there is conversation about that from people who watch russia, obviously. you don't hear that sort of thing from the inner circle or people close to the inner circle for obvious reasons. but there is a question people are asking. vladimir putin is not a risk taker. he's risk averse. so why has he taken this risk? >> it is very interesting. keir simmons, thank you so much

for being with us from moscow. i know it's been a long, long, i don't know, 72 hours now, 48 hours, however long it's been since you've been standing in front of that camera. appreciate it, my friend. >> you bet. and joining me now is nina, thank you so much for being here. i know you know the situation very well. so tell me, as an observer, as somebody who knows moscow and the kremlin, what you make of what's happening. >> not very well, apparently, because i didn't think putin would be that crazy to go to kyiv, because that is suicidal and obviously he doesn't know ukrainian people well enough, although they fight and fought in world war ii, and they were very -- the partisan battles, the insurgent battles were very, very strong, and so he doesn't know they are going to fight to the death.

so, that's something that i absolutely miscalculated. but what's happening in moscow is certainly remarkable. not in moscow, actually, all across russia in cities, people rise up. but i also wouldn't put too much hope into this, however, because they're threatened. they are being detained. they'd be threatened with the loss of jobs. some theaters actually get closed. there's a very important arts center called the garage. it stopped exhibiting anything saying we cannot pretend that it's a real thing, but how long this opposition can last, how long people will remain brave and not scared enough that that is still a question. and also, a lot of people do think that ukrainians are those -- the new regime or zelenskyy's regime is a nazi regime, so a lot of them continue to be patriotic and, in

fact, hang russian flags and support putin. >> i know that, and we've seen some, as independent as you can get, polling out of russia that says, i believe, 60% of the country does support vladimir putin. but i wonder how long can vladimir putin -- and this is maybe a question that's unanswerable. or maybe it's a long time. how long can he hold on if you do continue to see those protests in the street and if you do start to see more images of bombed-out kyiv, whereas keir was saying, there are so many people who have loved ones and relatives or friends in ukraine, and those images start to really penetrate not social media, which is being restricted, but individual messaging. friends to friends or messaging group on whatsapp or something. >> well, that's true. i mean, the social media has been somewhat restricted, but also, as you know, now the russian government forbade to,

first of all, use the words "occupation," war, attack, it's a special mission in dunetsk and luhansk. it's a special operation. so there's a lot of propaganda campaign out there to limit the damage to the reputation of what's going on and how russia attacks ukraine, but i think the long-term, maybe even not that long-term, damage to putin is probably going to be significant. regardless of the -- whether it's a short war, a long war. i would compare it to the soviets going into afghanistan in 1979 and '89, getting out and then the empire collapses very quickly, because what putin is trying to do is to have that pan-slavic land, empire to be recreated, to take all the slavic nations under the russian wing, but it is entirely possible that what he has done

would actually be revolutionary in a sense that it would only speed up the demise of whatever is left of that russian imperial formula that he seems to be operating upon. >> there are a lot of people out there who hope that is the case. nina, thank you so much. we appreciate your expertise and insight on this. and the world is bracing for further cyberattacks as russia continues its assault on ukraine. let's bring in suzann spalding, the senior advisor of homeland security at the center for strategic and international studies. thank you so much. i think there are people who are out there who are surprised that the internet still works in ukraine. >> well, it is perhaps surprising, but it may be that russia is planning to and is using that internet for surveillance, for example. anyone who's on a connected device, they have powerful surveillance capabilities, and

their ability to track down, for example, a putin enemies list, individuals and keep track of folks is enhanced if the internet is up and running. >> well, so, what sort of cyberattacks are you on the lookout for right now? >> well, we've already seen cyberattacks. obviously, over the last several days, and really going back even longer than that. we saw a steady drum beat. we've seen cyberattacks on banks. we've seen cyberattacks on the government ministries. there will be, i think, two objectives. there will be some tactical objectives, so use of cyber to disrupt the ability of ukraine to defend itself, but there will also be strategic objectives to undermine -- further undermine and destabilize the government in ukraine, and by a series of attacks that make it appear that it's no longer in charge, that it's not competent, so i think we have to be sensitive to both

the information aspect of those cyberattacks as a kind of propaganda as well as the tactical. >> what about counterattacks? i know the group anonymous, the hackers have said they're going to be going after vladimir putin and his inner circle. >> yeah, well, in the past, we've seen the sort of hatchett visas, if you will, ideologues, but we have also seen activists, if you will, from the west that have carried out some cyberattacks on russian websites, ddos attacks, and there are certainly capability for nonstate actors to carry out destructive as well as disruptive attacks. >> suzann spalding, thank you so much for joining us. and coming up next hour. >> thank you, katy.

>> on msnbc live, "rolling stone" correspondent joins me from inside unique to talk about what he is seeing right now and we're going to talk to a former member of ukraine's parliament about president zelenskyy's refusal to leave that city. iamet about president zelenskyy's refusal to leave that tyci

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for the mornings when everything's wrong. for the manicure that makes everything right, for right now. show up, however you can, for the foster kids who need it most— at helpfosterchildren.com when it comes to cybersecurity, the biggest threats wh don't alwayst— strike the biggest targets. so help safeguard your small business with comcast business securityedge™. it's advanced security that continuously scans for threats and helps protect every connected device. on the largest, fastest, reliable network with speeds up to 10 gigs to the most small businesses. so you can be ready for what's next. get started with internet and voice for just $64.99 a month. and ask how to add securityedge™. or, ask how to get up to a $650 prepaid card. good to be with you, i'm cay katy tur. it is 4:00 p.m. in new york, midnight in moscow. here is what we know right now. in kyiv,