good to be with you. i'm katy tur.

it is 5:00 p.m. in new york and midnight in kyiv, ukraine. and here is what we know right now. at this hour the ukrainian government is still holding kyiv. senior defense officials put russian forces about 18 miles outside of the capital city. all while russian missiles continue to fall across that city. video showed a missile striking a residential building in kyiv just hours ago. ukraine's minister for foreign affairs says that russian artillery killed two and injured at least six others. that strike prompted a sudden and chaotic evacuation of that building along with urgent search and rescue efforts. there's also new reporting from the "new york times" at this hour. the "times" reporting that russian artillery fire has struck a children's hospital in kyiv, killing one child and wounding two others along with two adults. kyiv is just one of three cities currently be being targeted by russian forces. the other two, kharkiv in the northeast and kherson in the south.

earlier this afternoon kharkiv was hit with a shelling. a blood donation center came under fire. three donors were wounded and another died in the assault according to the associated press. after the shelling staff moved their operations to the basement so they could continue their 24-hour operation. according to senior u.s. defense officials, the russians are growing increasingly frustrated by their lack of progress around kyiv and kharkiv. surprised by the strength of the ukrainian resistance. at the same time ukraine's president is vowing to keep fighting. in a new address moments ago he told the world, "ukrainians are in their homeland and will never give it to anyone, never betray." he's also asking for support after yet another offer to help him evacuate kyiv. zelenskyy told the u.s., "i need ammunition, not a ride." and in a major shift germany announced it would send lethal aid to ukraine. germany is also now considering a targeted approach to removing russia from the s.w.i.f.t. banking system. joining me now from dniper

ukraine is nbc news foreign correspondent matt bradley. we've been talking to you all day. you're in a non-descript location. talk to me about what you're doing to stay safe and what it's like there. >> reporter: well, i wanted to talk to you about sort of the map and go around and kind of describe what we've been seeing this whole time. so i'm in dnipro. this is like in the center of the country. and if you go up, this is -- we've been here for about 24 hours. there hasn't been any real attacks. but we just came from kharkiv, which is north of us. and that's the second largest city in the ukraine. if you look at the map, that's just about a three-hour drive north of where we are. so kharkiv, we were there and we got some -- there was some shelling. it was actually very close to the center of the city. and acourting to courtney kube's speaking with the pentagon, our sclaeg courtney, she heard that some of the fiercest fighting has been going on outside of kharkiv. because right over the border is this town of belgorod in russia.

and that's where we've seen some of the most dramatic troop movements in just the days before the fighting started. so so now moving over west, a lot of the most fierce fighting is also happening just north of kyiv, the capital. and we've also seen a lot of action right around chernohiv between there and the belarusian border. that is where we're seeing another major prong of attack heading south toward the capital. both of those players, both in kharkiv to the east and in kyiv in the center of the country, center north of the country have seen a lot of resistance from the ukrainians. from intelligence assessments from the brits and the americans we're hearing that the russians have been very, very frustrated in their lack of progress on those two main axes coming down into the center of the country. they had hoped to get those cities pretty early on in the game and they've been frustrated with the way that the ukrainians

have posted a resistance. now, the most success for the russians has come in the south around crimea and odesa. those two places have been really good for the russians. partly because they have naval assets in the black sea. so we've seen heavy fighting in the town of kherson and the town of melitopol. those places have seen a lot of advanced troop movements. the russians have managed to take quite a lot of area there. but as courtney kube mentioned in her report from intelligence officials, no urban spaces, no appreciable-sized urban spaces have really ever been seized in the last three days, nearly three days of fighting by the russians. and that must be very, very frustrating for them. if you look to the west of the country on that map, you're not going to see much action. there hasn't been a whole lot of fighting there. but there has been something else. there's been a huge influx of internally displaced people from elsewhere in the country to the

west of the country. and that's why we've seen more than 120,000 refugees spilling over the border into poland from ukraine. and this according to the u.n. refugee agency. and that is where we see lviv. that's really the capital of the western part of the country. and that's been the focus of refuge both for civilians and for a lot of embassies. the u.s. embassy moved there very early on before the fighting even started. so this is how the state of play is right now in day 3 as we move nearly into day 4 of of all of this fighting. so so far, actually, the ukrainians have put up a lot of resistance. and according to courtney the russians have only really put in a little more than half, or a little less than half of their forces that they had built around ukraine. so they still have a lot of fighting power to go. but according to the uk and the u.s. they've been really, really frustrated with their progress and very impressed with the ukrainian resistance. katy?

>> matt bradley. matt, thank you so much. we were going to talk to a ukrainian journalist in kyiv. we had her hooked up. but she just had to unhook because air raid sirens went off in kyiv. she needed to go seek shelter. so things are happening in the capital city. the longer the war lasts in ukraine the greater the potential that things in the region and all of europe could spin out of control. before the invasion cna research scientist jeffrey edmunds wrote in "foreign affairs" a prolonged war that ravaged europe's largest country could radiate instability into the continent's eastern and central regions. it could also prove to be the beginning of a series of crises between nato and russia for the first time in decades. european security stands on the precipice. joining me right now is that man, jeffery edmonds. a former cia military analyst and former director for russia at the national security council. so talk to me about that. the security of europe. >> right. so it really gets out of control in two different ways. you have -- despite russian

plans for this to happen fairly quickly it's clearly not going to do that. it will probably eventually move into a stage of urban warfare. this will continue to drain russian forces. but you have russian forces operating, you know, in not -- not far from nato forces. the longer this goes on the more there will be demands for us to provide weapons, probably a good thing. but the more that there's a chance for some kind of unintended escalation. whether that's in the black sea or in poland or some other country. those things increase. the second part of this is intended escalation. let's say russia does this and continues and isn't making its political gains, which are doubtful. what are the chances -- what if, for example, what if finland joins nato? what if sanctions create some kind of instability in moscow? does putin then decide to expand the conflict and really kind of double down on it? and those are just two different ways that this could really spill out into a larger problem for europe outside of ukraine.

>> i wonder if vladimir putin starts using larger-scale weapons and it starts impacting more civilians, more than it already has, how hard is it going to be for the west, for nato to stand on the sidelines and watch if there are great numbers of civilian casualties? >> so i think that's a very likely scenario. i think the russians have realized that they can't do this quickly. and as they deplete, you know, their long-range strike weapons and things of that nature, i think this is going to degrade -- it it could degrade more into what they did in syria, where you had bombing of -- the bombing of urban areas and things of that nature, high casualties. i think as that happens it's going to be -- there's going to be a lot of pressure from the west to really, really cripple the russians. so for example, if you drop the russian economy, essentially, if you just wage war against russia, there's a good chance that could spill over. and i'm not saying we shouldn't do that. that's one way that this could really expand beyond ukraine.

and i think the longer this goes on the more frustrated the russians get, the more they're willing to take off the gloves and target urban areas, the more pressure the west is going to feel to respond to that. >> you're talking about unintended scenarios. there's a lot of fighting along borders where nato troops are stationed. you're talking about the black sea. there's already been reports that some foreign ships have been unintentionally, it seems, hit by missile fire. it seems like it's an extraordinarily delicate situation. >> that's right. i mean, the black sea, you know, given the ships that are there, there are long-range anti-ship capabilities, it's a very tight area with a lot of tension. so i was actually kind of surprised the russian ships were engaging these cargo ships that are obviously no threat to anybody. and so the chance that you could have russian versus nato engagement in the black sea is not -- is pretty high. and then you also have air

activity and other things along borders. there's just a real chance that you could have nato assets suddenly engaging russian assets and given all the pressure you were talking about earlier there's going to be a real desire to push back against the russians. p and that could definitely lead to some unintended escalation. >> is the sense -- is your sense that this ends in ukraine, that vladimir putin only has his sights on ukraine? >> i do think that the -- i think he wants to keep this inside ukraine. i think in his mind if he can control most of ukraine he gets some of what he wants, like a de facto closing of nato's doors, the u.s. and nato won't have security assistance to ukraine, so it will get him some of that. that being said, you know, i imagine the russians are planning for this to expand outside of that. for example, you know, if they really need to in order to raise the stakes for nato and the west or you have unintended escalation. but i think for the most part --

i don't think he's waiting to lash out at the baltics or anybody else if he can avoid it but i think he's ready to do so if he feels he needs to in order to survive. >> do you think he's a rational actor right now? >> there's a long -- you know, there's a long history about analyzing whether or not he's rational. i think he's rational. he's logical with false assumptions. right? so going back to people's undergrad days, if you could have an argument the logic plays out, if you start with false assumption and you end with a false conclusion. and i think a lot of his fears and paranoia and things like that about the west designs for regime change in moscow are all false. but from there he has kind of a logical thought process that's based on a lot of really false assumptions. i think he has a lot of false assumptions about ukraine and that's what we're seeing now. >> we just got some news that the european commission alongside the u.s. has decided to kick selected russian banks

off of s.w.i.f.t., which is something that a lot of people including many ukrainians and the president himself in ukraine, president zelenskyy, has been calling -- had been calling for. but again, it's selected european -- or selected russian banks. i don't know the details of which banks those are. i wonder with these sanctions and with something as strong as s.w.i.f.t., which will affect a lot of the russian economy and a lot of just individuals, is there concern that vladimir putin would see that as an escalation that is -- that draws him out of ukraine and makes him lash out at western nations, at nato nations? >> yes. so that's one of the scenarios i've had in the back of my mind for a long time, is if you do something that ends up creating a run on the banks, mass hysteria, instability inside moscow and the russian leadership perceives that as an existential threat to them, then i believe you would have

escalation where they would intentionally get nato to spanned, article 5, to say hey guys, if you want to go down this route we're going to have a major war in the hopes we would back down. that being said, swifrt isn't the nuclear option most people think it is. banks can still bank when they're off of s.w.i.f.t. i actually think that some of the selected dropping banks basically from the russian economy we've seen with veb, btb and others, i think those are actually stronger moves and i've seen some reporting of thinking about going after the russian reserves. those things might also cause that kind of reaction. >> all right. well, thank you so much. jeffrey edmonds. for joining me. former cia military analyst and former director for russia at the national security council. jeffrey, thank you. >> thank you. >> and still ahead this hour, international condemnation for the invasion even coming from putin's own allies. and the dissent within russia, with thousands of russians taking to the streets, violating

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as russian forces anywhere kyiv, vladimir putin's decision to invade ukraine has been met with a cold reaction from some of russia's closest allies. czech president milos zeman has said that russia has committed a crime against peace and has called for russia to be removed from the s.w.i.f.t. financial system. hungarian prime minister viktor orban condemned russia's military action and said the country stands with its eu and nato allies. and nbc news now reports that kazakhstan denied a russian request for troops to join their offensive in ukraine. joining me now is msnbc political analyst rick stengel. he previously served as

undersecretary of state for public diplomacy and public affairs in the obama administration. rick, hold on a second because we got some more breaking news p and i want to read a little bit from this statement from the eu, the uk, canada and u.s. they are going to be kicking selected banks off the s.w.i.f.t. system. but there is a senior administration official who has been talking to nbc news who says that the second portion of these new round of sanctions is really the one that matters, it's even more important than s.w.i.f.t. this was committing to imposing restrictive measures that will prevent the russian central bank from deploying its international reserves in ways that undermine the impact of our sanctions. so the idea is that vladimir putin has been trying to sanctionproof the russian economy by hording money and that by restricting the russian central bank from deploying its international reserves they'll be able to cut through that

protection. >> yes, katy. the ultimate goal is the russian central bank. i mean, if you shut that down, putin can't borrow money. he can't be in international markets. he's spending a lot of money every day now in ukraine. one of the things in diplomacy, we have this thing called reciprocity where you graduate what you're going to do compared to what the other guy does. well, as putin really went in, as he's attempting to occupy the country, the sanctions ratchet up too. and ultimately the goal is to make the russian central bank impotent. >> there's also in this statement from these countries a commitment to freezing the assets of russians inside these respective countries, places like the uk where there's a lot of russian assets. i was just speaking to an analyst at "forbes" who said that that's a really difficult thing to do because identifying

what is owned by a russian can be very hard. there's a lot of layers. it's been likened to a russian neflting doll, to try and find the ownership for some of these larger properties. i know it's a big effort from a lot of nations to try and do everything they can to pressure vladimir putin. i wonder what should people expect about the effectiveness of all of this? >> well, first of all, kaipty, one misperception people had i think was that sanctions were somehow going to prevent putin from invading ukraine. that was never the goal. the goal is to punish him for invading ukraine. and when you mentioned how hard it is to sanction the russian oligarchs, one of the innovative things that happened in the first round of sanctions is that the fathers and the sons were sanctioned. that oftentimes the oligarchs hide money in their families and with their children.

and the ultimate goal of sanctions is to turn russia into a kind of pariah state. so those oligarchs can't send their kids to harvard, yale, and princeton. that they can't go shopping in paris and london and all of those things that putin enabled them to do. the oligarchs keep putin in power. putin is not a democrat. he doesn't really run for elections. the people who he has given great wealth to are the people that keep him secure. when those people start saying gee, i can't get on my yacht anymore and i can't do all the things that i want to do, that weakens putin's power. and then the other thing, the long-term consequences is do you want to be a 30-something russian now where your economy is going down the tubes, where you can't travel, you can't go to school abroad? i mean, this is undermining what putin tried to achieve and failed, of course, because he still never really brought russia into the modern world.

>> there are questions about whether or not vladimir putin and russia will be able to be floated by other nations that are not taking a stance against this aggression. i wonder what your reaction was to the vote in the national -- in the u.n. security council last night to condemn russia. russia vetoed it. but interestingly, india abstained, china abstained, and so did the uae. >> so yes -- we could discuss whether russia should really be on the security council at all. >> that's a big question. >> that's a whole -- that's a whole other issue. remember, the thing -- this term that's been floated around now for weeks, sphere of influence, that putin wants a sphere of influence, what that means is this 19th century concept where nations can control their destiny and control all the other nations in their perimeter and in the near abroad as the russians call it. we believed in that too. in the 19th century, when we had

the monroe doctrine. but sphere of influence is this old idea that has become new again because countries like russia, countries like china, even countries like india want to have a sphere of influence where the west, where america can't influence them in this area that they control. that's why russia -- that's why china abstains. that's why india abstains. i'm not exactly sure why uae abstained. but that's the kind of world they would prefer to live in. i don't think that's the kind of world we want to live in. >> rick stengel. rick, it's always good to talk ow. thanks so much for being here today. >> good to see you, katy. >> and anti-war protests are continuing across russia. a stunning show of defiance in a country where it is not always safe to protest. more on that. plus a former kgb officer joins me to talk about what putin hopes to achieve. hopes to achieve

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despite the threat of arrest, russians continue to protest -- i'm sorry, protest putin's actions in ukraine. in st. petersburg today russian police detained more protesters as anti-war rallies continued across the country. it adds to the thousands of arrests at anti-war protests since thursday morning. joining me now from moscow is nbc news senior international correspondent keir simmons. so keir, what is it like there? >> reporter: katy, we just have a little bit of breaking news just in the past hour or so, i guess, that it does now appear to be agreement among european countries and support from the u.s. for removing russia from the s.w.i.f.t. payment system, at the least partially. it looks as if the plan is to remove the banks that have been sanctioned, the russian banks that have been sanctioned from the s.w.i.f.t. system. you can imagine that there was a fair amount of negotiation. just to give you a picture, katy, america does about $35

billion worth of trade with russia. in comparison, europe does about $250 billion worth of trade with russia. so it was important for the europeans. but that appears to have been a decision. and it does appear to be a decision that has really frightened people, businesses here in moscow, for example. we heard one report of businesses trying to get payments before this happened. so hotels even calling guests to say could you pay now because of the fear of whether payments are going to be possible looking ahead. there's that aspect. another piece of news we've just had since we last spoke is this decision by the european union to ban russian flights across the european union and russia appears to be reciprocating. it looks as if some european flights turned around in the air over russian airspace when this decision was being made.

so president putin increasingly isolated and facing pressure as you mentioned here in russia with protests on the streets, with journalists signing petitions, with even the director of the bolshoi ballet, the world famous ballet signing a petition against the war. sports stars. even the children of oligarchs and of kremlin officials signing -- making protests on social media against the war. on multiple fronts. it isn't just a war in ukraine for president putin. he's fighting a war on multiple fronts domestically and also internationally. >> keir simmons. keir, thank you very much. we also have a little bit of news talking about flights. lufthansa is going to stop using russian airspace for the next seven days. we're also hearing from the prime minister of lithuania saying it will ban russian airlines from its airspace at midnight. no flights for aggressor planes in the freedom sky.

this is according to the prime minister of lithuania. vladimir putin remains defiant amid global outrage over his attack on ukraine. and as we watch the crisis unfold there are growing concerns over vladimir putin's ambitions and motivations. and what it could mean for ukraine's future. joining me right now is former undercover kgb agent jack barksky. i'm so sorry. it's been a long day on television and my mouth is not really working as well as it was earlier today. >> i understand. don't apologize to me. it's all right. >> i want to know -- and i'm very excited to talk to you about this because i think you have an insight into vladimir putin that almost no one has. as a former kgb agent how are you reading vladimir putin right

now? >> right now -- first of all, if you want to know what putin is after, his number one goal is to stay in power. okay? because the second, secondary goal he cannot achieve unless he is in power. and he was quite clear about this. he stated this openly some years ago when he said the greatest tragedy of the 20th century was the collapse of the soviet union. so vladimir putin in that respect is a patriot but he's also a nacissistic leader who thinks he is the chosen one, he's the chosen one to join the pantheon of czars and leaders like lenin and stalin. or alexander -- peter the great. so that's putin in a nutshell. i think he may have

miscalculated because this thing can really backfire. a rational putin would have stopped when he marched into the already russian-dominated territory of ukraine. if he goes to kyiv and he doesn't find some kind of way to declare victory and then pull out -- one way to declare victory would be of course to install a friendly government and then remove the troops from kyiv. if he thinks he can occupy ukraine, we already know this, that he'll have an afghanistan ten times harder and more difficult to deal with. and afghanistan was the beginning of the end of the soviet union. so he's in a bit of a bind now. he can't show weakness because if he showed weakness, he wants

power and not because of the demonstration buzz because of the other power players that are right under him. so it's a very interesting spectacle to watch, even though i wish it didn't occur. >> i wonder, even if he tries to install a puppet government that is friendly to russia, he might be able to do that, but who's to say that that government would have any real influence over the ukrainian military, which is currently fighting russia, or the ukrainian people, which are individually taking up arms against russia? >> yes. you're calling it. he would have to have a lot of collaborators among the ukrainians. and ukrainians absolutely hate russians. this goes -- the origin of this huge hatred is 1931, 1932 when stalin was dealing with a

separatist movement going on in ukraine. he was trying to collectivize the farm because farmers were like the last folks that would embrace communism. the same happened in the gdr where i grew up. farmers were the last ones because farmers like private property. they exist because they have property. so anyway, so this is what stalin did to make the -- the ukrainians submissive. he stole all the grain that they had harvested. and there was a massive famine in which about 3 to 4 million ukrainians starved. the ones who actually planted the grain, harvested it it, didn't have any because stalin took it away. and that is where that hatred has its origin. and your guess is i think very

much true. collaborators will face strong opposition and i think there will be shooting going on for a long time unless putin moves out. and i don't know how he can do that unless there's some way for him to declare victory. >> jack, what should the west be doing right now? >> well, we should actually expand the -- pretty much close all of s.w.i.f.t., just like completely make it impossible for russia to do -- to engage in commerce. their economy is weak. it's weaker than italy's economy. and without their ability to sell particularly oil and gas they're going to -- they're going to have starvation happening in russia at that time. this is almost a no-win situation at this point.

as long as the west, you know, keeps a backbone. because we will suffer some pain, particularly rising energy prices, especially in europe. >> chuck barsky. chuck, former kgb agent. thank you so much for joining us. and coming up after the break, there are air raid sirens going off in kyiv right now. we will join a journalist who's currently on the ground in kyiv. don't go anywhere. don't go anywhere. -weekly ozemp. ♪ oh, oh, oh, ozempic®! ♪ ♪ oh, oh, oh ♪ ozempic® is proven to lower a1c. most people who took ozempic® reached an a1c under 7 and maintained it. and you may lose weight. adults lost on average up to 12 pounds. in adults also with known heart disease, ozempic® lowers the risk of major cardiovascular events

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we're following breaking news out of kyiv. the city according to what we're hearing from our contacts on the ground is facing a pretty intense round of airstrikes at this moment. you're looking live at a bomb shelter in kyiv. it appears to be an underground parking garage. there's a man right there clutching his dog. i'm joined now by igor kosov, a reporter with the kyiv independent. he's sheltering in kyiv, where air raid sirens, again, are sounding across the city. now, igor, i know you have to keep your voice down. so viewers, please do bear with us. but tell me what's happening. igor, i think you might be on mute. we're going to work on igor's

audio. in the meantime, here's what you're looking at. this is a bomb shelter. it appears, again, to be an underground parking lot. earlier we were speaking to another journalist, who was sheltering in an underground parking lot in a hotel. it appears that many places in kyiv are using these structures as air raid shelters alongside the city metros. again, air raid sirens as we're hearing pretty intense conflict right now in kyiv. we're going to work on getting more details and to reconnect with igor. so don't go anywhere. but joining me right now is nyu law professor ryan goodwin. he previously served as special counsel to the department of defense general counsel. and msnbc contributor david

rohde. we've seen sanctions put in place right now. not just taking some banks off s.w.i.f.t. in russia but also cutting off the russian central bank, which a senior administration official tells me at nbc news should effectively cut off vladimir putin's safeguarding against sanctions, which was to hoard russian currency. so ryan, what do you think of that? >> i think it's very positive news. in fact, in the joint statement with the european commission it would, quote unquote, paralyze the bank. and that would be putin's backup system essentially to try to evade the sanctions. and i think that's very good news. i think the other thing that we need to look for are which banks and how comprehensive is the s.w.i.f.t. removals. is that enough? do we need to go to more banks? russia? but at the same time it's very positive news. the joint statement also says that it would, quote unquote, effectively block russian exports and imports. so that does sound pretty widespread. >> keir simmons a little david,

russian planes are banned across europe and the eu. i think people are asking why not just ban all flights into and out of russia to further isolate that country? >> i think it's -- the administration and its european allies are taking a step-by-step approach. but this is all very positive, i agree. it's the europeans that see what's happening in ukraine. ukrainians don't want to live under the iron fist of vladimir putin. and other european countries see this threat. and i think this is a big step forward. i credit the europeans for taking it. earlier today germany announced it was sending anti-tank and anti-aircraft missiles. the netherlands. so you see, you know, these images that are coming out are affecting european public opinion and those governments are being more aggressive. and i think putin is losing, if you will, the sort of messaging war, the information war here. >> and he's been very adept at

trying to control the messaging war. he's been using social media to his advantage for the past few years. again, i want to just emphasize that we're looking at live pictures right now in kyiv. this is a bomb shelter where people have been hiding out clearly for quite a while because you can see there's makeshift beds. families with their pets. entire families in kyiv hiding out because the city is under fire from russia. it is these images, as you so rightly pointed out, david, that is showing the world what exactly is happening. it's also these images which are getting through at least in bits and pieces to the russian people. maybe not through their main news outlet. obviously, rt is not showing this. but through social media. which is still somewhat accessible in russia. and also through text messaging. from their friends who live in ukraine, showing them what is happening. how much -- and i know vladimir putin is an autocrat, so public opinion doesn't entirely matter there.

but it's got to matter to a point. >> yeah, the danger for putin here is sort of the russian urban middle class, the people living in moscow and st. petersburg who don't want this isolation, whose businesses will suffer from these new -- this cutoff from s.w.i.f.t. and what's amazing is how quickly and rapidly the digital age is changing the nature of warfare. and in terms of messaging, zelenskyy is outdueling putin here. these quick impromptu videos, you know, that zelenskyy's showing that he's in kyiv and he's fighting i think are very effective. these images of men, women in civilian clothes being given kalashnikov assault rifles and going out risking their lives to defend themselves. there are some images on social media of russian tanks that have run out of gas. this is all very powerful and all these images are hurting putin. this is not going the way he wanted. >> david and ryan, stick around with me for one second. i want to get back to igor, our

reporter on the ground. igor, we've been able to reconnect. tell me what you're hearing. >> we have heard multiple, multiple reports that serious heavy airstrikes are coming to kyiv. my friends with whom i'm sheltering in this hallway in an apartment in kyiv heard an explosion. we are -- i'm not going to say where we are, but we are -- reports have come that we are in a place where it is -- we're next to one of the targets basically. everyone has been ordered to take shelter immediately. we're expecting heavier strikes any minute. and russians are about to hit us with all they've got. >> so you're hearing the air raid sirens. have you heard any blasts? >> my friends just heard a blast. i was trying to fix my mike. but i'm expecting to hear more blasts shortly. because like i said, we are close to one of the potential

targets. >> you know, we laugh because that's a funny thing, fixing your microphone. but you're in the middle of a war. how are you feeling right now? and i guess what are you preparingfor? >> i'm feeling determined and i'm preparing for several things. i'm preparing to cover in war to the best of my ability. i'm preparing for ukrainian victory but i'm also preparing to try to escape if the worst comes to pass, which i hope won't. >> are you prepared if you need to do fight? >> i am a journalist. i would prefer to just cover what is happening and report the truth. but if my life or the life of my colleagues is threatened, i'm

prepared to defend it. >> that is a good point. are you in contact with anybody in russia right now, are they surprised by maybe what you are telling them versus what they are seeing on television? >> no, i'm not in contact with anyone in russia right now. i do have family there, but i haven't spoken to them in a while because they are kind of distant family. >> that must be hard. >> it is -- you know, i don't know how they feel about this, but i'm sure that they don't support it. >> vladimir putin says that the country is being run by neo-nazis and that he is trying to liberate the ukrainian people who want him there. tell us the truth. >> well, that -- i think everyone understands that that is the most ridiculous thing ever. the right wing here is less than 1% of the voter base. and to say that neo-nazis are in

any way significant, it is a stretch. to say that they are running the country is just mentally ill, i guess. >> were you able to get outside at all today to take a look at your city? >> i did. and i -- sorry, my camera is -- i did, and i walked around during the day, talked to some people. they are staying calm. many people the families are trying to leave the city. and they have. there is like a big convoy of vehicles going west. many people trying to buy food and pharmaceuticals in very orderly queues. people are untalkative and kurt, but they are calm and they are determined and territorial defense has close to 40,000 members who are willing to defend their existence. >> what is the food situation? >> it is hard to get bread, but the stores still have enough

food for everyone to have enough to eat. many people have left like i said. some store workers and owners, but also consumers. so it balances out. >> do you know how long those supplies might last? >> i'm not sure. i'm trusting the organizational strength of ukraine to be able to provide food for people. >> igor, thank you so much. and please do stay safe. we hope that you -- >> thank you very much. back to ryan and david. so ryan, again, it is hard to -- it is hard to be in contact with people who are in the hallway of their apartment building and they are fearing for their lives because missiles are striking their city and air raid sirens are going off. there is a lot of pressure right

now on the west to act, to do something. the west doesn't want to get involved directly because they don't want to start world war 3, they don't want to be in direct combat or conflict with russia. what more can the west do, what is left to do to get vladimir putin to pull out? >> right, so i definitely think ratcheting up the military supplies of javelins and stinger missiles. but otherwise try to completely isolate russia and putin to make him become what he is becoming, which is the pariah, and that includes the treasury department. they could disclose the information that they have that will expose the vast criminal enterprise that involves putin and his oligarch cronies, and that would speak to the russian street, the people in russia hearing that information, it would help delegitimize him. another thing is, we've done a very good job of declassifying certain military intelligence information in the run up to try

to stop the invasion. i think that we could also do a good job of disclosing some of that now to for example share the information with the -- in the international criminal court and say that very publicly, we'll be sharing the names of the commanders in the russian army. that is another kind of thing that we can do. and putin needs to be kicked out of international organizations. the council on europe started this well yesterday by kicking out russia in terms of having any representation. and diplomats should be thrown out of different countries. these are some of the things that worked with apartheid south africa. i think the world is reacting rasp cheling it up, but there are additional steps that we can take. >> ryan, david, thank you so much for joining me. and i want to read a little bit from more reporting that we got from our own josh letterman about these sanctions, these additional sanctions. this is from a senior biden administration official who has briefed reporters.

this person is describing the moves as applying, quote, the iran model to russia by kicking some banks off s.w.i.f.t. as was done when iran was kicked off s.w.i.f.t. in 2018 which banks will be kicked off, those already under u.s. and eu sanctions will be the first considered. but it is ultimately up to the eu brass because s.w.i.f.t. is based in belgium. the ones that are kicked off will have to use a telephone or fax machine to send money internationally. it will help turn russia into a global and economic financial pariah. u.s. allies will hunt down the yachts, jets, fancy cars and luxury homes of sanctioned russian companies and oligarchs. again, going after their lifestyle, which so many people have said is necessary. the problem is it is hard to figure out who owns what. it will be interesting to see how governments try to sort through it all. that is going to do it for me today. thank you so much for being with me for these past three hours.

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hello everyone. we're following the minute by minute details. protests are erupting around the globe from washington, d.c. to moscow in response for