♪ ♪ ♪ "how bizarre" by omc ♪ no annual fee on any discover card. ♪ ♪ good evening everyone, i'm emit more hit dean in new york tonight. we are following ukrainians invasion of ukraine. and the new york global pushback. satellite images also showing a massive convoy of russian troops just outside the capital of kyiv that stretches from miles. and

said, no what is putin putting ne killer forces on alert means genuinely? and is it an empty threat? and what is your assessment of

what we should be doing as a response? should we not be taking it seriously? what is your assessment? >> well, look, i am worried about it. here is a reason, i spent a lot of time in new color are negotiating control. the russians control -- we are scooping up loose nukes all over the soviet empire. getting them back under control in moscow. there is no one who understands the employment of nuclear weapons. i have done this half of my life. who doesn't understand that they are not a war fighting weapon. the russians could not strike the united states offered strike and even possibly into a devastating vaporization of the society. it doesn't make any sense at all. putin understands the nation of russian nuclear weapons as well as our own.

so, when he made that statement, he wasn't making it over next essential threat of the survival of russia, he was talking about is called invasion of a neighboring conflict for the country. it strikes me that he is off the rails. he is scared. he screwed this thing up. he is surrounded by negative consequences. and he comes up with a threat like that. there is no lieutenant colonel in the russian air force involved in new color weapons who would've endured what he did. so i think we have to be worried. that last picture, the soviet -- the russian administrator offense and chief of general stuff sitting 30 feet away -- my god. putin let that picture go out. he thought it looked normal. i don't know. i think we have a problem. he isn't a rat trap looking for a way. out >> no, i think a lot of people made that same observation when they looked at the size of the table on how he

just stuck everybody on one hand. him and the photographer on another. it does seem highly bizarre even for a man with his paranoia. jonathan, let me ask you really quickly about our domestic politics. not just the head of the state of the union but also the unity of, how we like to think that politics stops at the water's edge. certainly, the time that we're coming up to confrontation like the one that we are seeing, it does not seem to be the case. this with the republican party. as we've heard and that we're talking about some praising vladimir putin. the conference taking place in orlando celebrating vladimir putin. what do you make about the divisions within the republican party about this ongoing conflict and wait there should be as a party when it comes to russia? >> that includes donald trump. they basically caught him with this pants down. we will see whether they paid the political price that they should for siding with a tyrant

who is killing thousands of innocent people and committing war crimes. and upsetting the balance of power that has prevented a world war for the last 70, plus years. and i think republicans have to look at themselves in this and ask, are you going to be a coward when it comes to, you know, criticizing donald trump? supporting putin? or are you going to stand up the way president-elect risky is? so it's a real moment of truth. a real character test for every republican. and we're going to find out with the state of union whether they're going to stand up and clap for things that both parties have applauded when the president says them for many decades. now i will find out whether

they put partisanship first or countries first. we're going to have a very quick lesson in that. we will see how the republican party comes out. i am not that confident that they're going to acquit themselves. >> yes. i'm going to side with you on this one. thanks for bringing up that point. the optics of the state of the union are obviously going to be very important for the world to see as well whether there is unity in the chamber or not. general, barry mccaffrey, jonathan alter. thank you so much for joining. us greatly appreciate your. time up next, we're going to head to moscow, live. what is vladimir putin telling his own people about the innovation and russia's ambitions? that is next. next oh, we can help with that. okay, imagine this. your mover, rob, he's on the scene and needs a plan with a mobile hotspot. we cut to downtown, your sales rep lisa has to send some files, like asap! so basically i can pick the right plan for each employee. yeah i should've just led with that. with at&t business.

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mom, i'm in ukraine. there is a real war raging here. i am afraid. anne we are bombing all of the cities together. even targeting civilians. we were told that they would welcome us. and they are falling under our armored vehicles, throwing themselves onto the wheels and not allowing us to pass. they call us bash us. mom, i am so -- this is so hard. >> so, that was the ukrainian invested in the united nations reading text messages he said was sent by a russian soldier to his mother shortly before his death. the exchange shows just how

difficult the situation putin's invasion has put the vast majority of everyday russians in. this isn't their war. this is putin's war. but they are the ones who are being sent to the front lines and ultimately, paying the price. for more on how putin's invasion is being covered and talked about inside russia, let's cross over to moscow, where we find nbc's raf sanchez. good to see you. so day six of this invasion. we have been speaking to you almost every day. at the risk of sounding like a broken record, what is the tenor of the coverage, if any, that is taken place inside of russia around what is happening inside ukraine? >> aymen, you just played that very moving sound of the russian soldiers final exchange with this mother. just picking up on that, the russian defense minister put out a safe yesterday with a very unusual line in. it said that all the russian troops are fighting in ukraine,

our professional soldiers. they are not constructs. now that is almost certainly not true. but it is interesting that they felt the need to say. it because it suggests that at the highest level of the russian government, they know that this war is deeply unpopular here in russia. and they know that mothers and fathers across this country do not want their sons deployed to ukraine. now, you asked about what the narrative here, in russia, is. there are gaping holes in what we are seeing on state media. and one of those gaping holes is the russian public is not being told how many service members have been killed so far in vladimir putin's war. they are unable to judge this war that is being launched in their name and how it's going. i will tell you, here in moscow, across russia, it's a big country. there's a lot of opinions. here here in moscow, we are not picking up any signs at all a popular support for this war. quite the opposite. a lot of ordinary, middle class,

russians as she said, had nothing to do with this war. they are terrified. as this crippling economic sanctions start to kick in. as the value of the ruble collapses. a lot of forts here are deeply, deeply frightened. but their savings are about to be wiped out by what is going on. and the question, i, think is will these sanctions, will the feeling on the ground, will these protests that we have been seeing breaking out all week, will they change vladimir putin's mind? you were talking a minute ago about that very long table that he's sitting out on. it's kind of funny. it's made a lot of memes. but for some people here, it is a physical manifestation of a russian leader who is really detached from reality here. vladimir putin is surrounded by very small circle now of former kgb officers, mainly. and we don't know what he's been told about what's going on

in the battlefield. and we don't know what he's being told about the devastation being brought on the russian economy. aymen? >> that's a very good point about whether or not he's isolated physically but also informational. raf sanchez, live for us in moscow. thank you so much. we're gonna check back through you out this. evening joining me now is david, wrote he's an msnbc contributor and editor for the new yorker.com. thank you so much for joining us. i'm fascinated to get your thoughts on putin's state of mind. putin's invasion has received widespread condemnation from around the globe. but more importantly, what is happening inside russia. you have many russian citizens now defying the risk they face speaking out against it a great personal risk to themselves. do you think he has been caught off guard by both the domestic and international response? >> i think he has. i think the international response of the effectiveness

and the breath of the sanctions have surprised him. but i covered conflicts before and spend sides on both sides of conflict and i have found that it's very difficult to change the mind of a leader who has become delusional. and i think putin has sort of bought into his self fulfilling narrative that he somehow liberating ukraine from nazis. what will hurt him are the people that are being shown now. these are the middle class residents of moscow city. that i think are ashamed of russia. they feel isolated. the champion league soccer matches are being stripped from moscow. the flights being cut. off and i think, in the long term, that the russia he's created, which does have a fairly strong economy in the cities can't exist if those middle class russians, those urban educated russians move out of the country. but i don't see putin himself

giving up. it's the brave people you're showing that might have an impact. >> yes. i was going to say. i mean, the isolation that russia is facing is maybe not going to impact somebody like vladimir putin directly. but because of the pressure. it is going to have to cash russia -- russia in a price. take the question is that we're those people? -- desperate men take up this room measures. do you think he doubles down after facing tougher resistance? does he lashed out against ukraine after trying to accelerate that campaign and punish them even if he doesn't achieve their exhaustive. but just punish them for what has come out of. this is what does he do with this back up against the wall? >> i think there are two paths. the first, grimace pass, is the [inaudible] path. during the second war in touch kidney, he uses the victory to

run for president to shows. toughness at least 30,000 civilians were killed and an absolutely brutal display of overwhelming and indiscriminate russian firepower. just open artillery barrages on other cities. and that is a possibility. he will want to show strength another sense of the. i think this next week in ukraine is critical. the rocket attack in car, keep these close measures is a broad time. the other way is the calculated cold putin of the pass. now, this is not the person that we're hearing about. now he finds a way out of. this that he realizes he's miscalculated. and to maintain power, he takes some sort of settlement. it is a critical. week i don't know which direction he can go. and it is the new putin who seems to be delusional and isolated that could turn to extreme violence. >> just to be clear, do you see, do you think that the west would, you know, with a draw or

cancel sanctions against russia for simply getting russian troops back out of the your cream and him staying in power? or have we crossed the rulebook on where the sanctions are going to stay on top of russia so long that letter made putin stays the president of russia? >> i see a deal. i think western leaders could maybe curb the sanctions in the short term. they could just end the bloodshed. you want to resupply, the canadians are running out of ammunition also. so i do see a deal route to peace where putin can hang on to power if he could realize how badly he's miscalculated here. it would be shameful for him. but it might be a way for him to survive. because if he remains isolated. if he embraces further violence, not even sure, who knows what will happen. but will russians keep fighting this war for him? i don't know. >> yes. the face saving mechanism is going to be important for vladimir putin when we the

other. david rohde, thank you for joining. us greatly appreciate your insights. coming, up ukraine has been the shield against russian aggression. and now it is the spear. and it is where the west can beat putin once and for all. that is what my next guest says. molly mchugh, served as a senior adviser to the president of georgia in the wake of its war against russia and russian separatists will join us next. ll join us next.

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vladimir putin had just kind of done whatever he's wanted in the lead up to his invasion of ukraine. it seems that no one in the west had the stomach to stand up to putin until the ukrainians did exactly that. their first resistant to russian aggression showed us that maybe, maybe, he might not get his way this time. in her newsletter, great power, my next guest writes that for eight, years ukraine had been in the west shield against russian aggression. now, it has become the spear. joining me now is molly mchugh, he's a former adviser to the president of georgia in the years after russia invaded georgia. and an expert in russia's influence and information warfare. molly, it's great to have you with. us so, let me start with the last segment with david rogue, but let me start by asking that question that i posed to. him about whether or not with the withdrawal of if that does happen, the withdrawal of russian troops out of ukraine should. the united states relieve its

sanctions off of russia? or should they continue with the pressure and the momentum that they currently have against russia and vladimir putin? >> i think a lot would depend on the context in which that happens. is it a willing withdraw? is it a sign that the message has been received? there will be no forces to change borders in europe. i think right, now what we see is that no one is really sure what the decision making processes. is it just putin doing this alone? does anyone still have influence on him? is there a way to deter the course. when we see the source says have really drastic results unfolding. i think no one has the answers to those questions. >> as someone who is all too familiar with putin's aggressions, what's been your reaction generally to the events in the past six days? as well as the resistance that we've seen? honestly, from the ukrainian

people, certainly those that are fighting, but also those that are risking their lives inside of russia. >> i'm sorry, could you repeat the question? >> sure. i was asking you, very simply about your reaction to the past six days as well as the staunch and admirable resistance that we've seen inside of ukraine and what we are seeing inside of russia? >> i think it's a really interesting dynamic that what you see right now is that putin 's not only fighting this war against ukraine. but he's having to fight his own people. the attempt to sort of shut down parts of the internet to control the messaging that is going inside the country, how people are discussing the war, how that is happening, how there is arrest for the protests that have happened against the war, i think that all of that shows the extent to which no one really believed that he's actually going to go ahead and do this. on the ukrainian side, i think that we have seen tremendous

fortitude. and i think that that comes from the fact that they have been doing this as a nation for eight years. i think that putin's greatest miscalculation is essentially, i don't think he really believed it. that the ukrainians have this new hardened more nationalists identity. and not in a bad way. but one that's really forged in this battle at understanding that their survival is sort of annexed attentional thing for. them and they're willing to fight for. they want what we have. they want the values that we have. they are fighting for them. they defend. them and they view themselves as the frontline. and i think that putin really didn't understand that you couldn't just come over the wall and given a victory break that the ukrainians would fight until the last man. >> yes, it is quite admirable how much they're taking their democracy for what it is. even though it is a budding democracy and the fact that they are fighting and risking their lives. fred molly mchugh, thank you so much for joining us this

evening. greatly appreciated. >> coming up, the world is watching as a peaceful society blows up. destroys towns, forces family to flee their homes. it's not hard to figure out which side to take when it comes to russia's invasion of ukraine. unless of course, your unelected republican in america. in which, you're 2024 front runner is out there saying, putin, he's a genius. that is next. energy is everywhere... even in a little seedling. which, when turned into fuel, can help power a plane. at chevron's el segundo refinery, we're looking to turn plant-based oil into renewable gasoline, jet and diesel fuels. our planet offers countless sources of energy. but it's only human to find the ones that could power a better future. [inspirational soul music]

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donald trump didn't back down. in fact, he doubled down on his plate for the russian president at the conservative seat back conference this weekend. calling vladimir putin's smart. and our leaders, don. joining us now is the democratic candidate for the u.s. senate and the u.s. marine veteran. he previously worked as an international negotiation officer at the pentagon. representing the chair of the joint chiefs at arms control negotiation with both nato and russia. it is good to have you with us lucas. how dangerous is it that republicans are not taking putin and russia seriously? and dividing us at home at a time when we need to be united in the face of this aggression? >> you know. the rhetoric is terrible. and i agree with you, the division is very very bad. and we need to get past it, we need to stop, it we need to come together. when i was doing those arms control negotiations, one of the things that i saw, and this is more about actions than it is about words, is that since

-- what we are seeing right now is russia's third innovation with their neighbors in the past 14 years, right? they invasion georgians into thousand eight. and they already invaded ukraine in 2014 another doing it again. and what i saw just over that entire time period was honestly a complete lack of action by any administrations to make sure that this doesn't happen again. so, i am happy to see that we have begun the process of making sure it doesn't happen again. which has taken a hard position against russia. a hard position on sanctions and stuff like that. but i think that what we really need to do is make sure that this never happens again. you -- because i'm sure that invasion number four, five and six somewhere down the line in what we have seen when i saw the negotiations with nato was how our nato allies wouldn't take hard positions. because they are essentially funding decent patience. so, if we want to prevent this from ever happening again, we need to kneecap this funding source.

and i believe that that could be done by investing right here in america for the next generation in getting russia or getting them off that russian. gus yeah, completely agree with you on that front let's take a listen, if i can to mid rodney on what he had to say for the pro putin support within the gop. >> how anybody in this country, which loves freedom, can side with vladimir putin, which is an oppressor, a dictator, he kills people. and he imprisons his political opponents. he has been an adversary of america. it's unthinkable to me, it's almost treasonous. and it just makes me ill to see some of these people do that. >> why do you think lucas, that some conservatives have this distorted view of vladimir putin and his history of human rights abuses?

>> you know, i think that what you are seeing is people who want to grab power at any cost. and whatever lies they can tell, whatever distortions they can do, they are going to try to do that. but i would honestly say to mitt romney, well, how do you feel about creating the next generation of renewable energy right here in america? are you going to be on the side of doing that? or are you going to be on the side of the capping vladimir putin so that he can never do that again. i think that if we really have a coalition that doesn't include that small minority, if we have enough people from both sides of the aisle who truly want to and putin's power, we have the capability to do it. we have the ability to do it, we can build up that new energy here, we can export it to europe, we can subsidize. and i can imagine mitt romney saying, that is going to be too expensive we shouldn't subsidize something like that, but i'm telling you, it is way cheaper than a decades-long war in ukraine. it's way cheaper than the next war. it's way cheaper than the two

wars that i've participated in in iraq and afghanistan, costing 6.4 trillion dollars. so what i would like to see is enough people like mitt romney and others coming together to actually take the steps to overcome vladimir putin and move beyond the minority that believes in that sort of rhetoric. sadly, unity has become such a dirty word in washington dc among both parties these days, that it is hard to imagine that they can agree on anything going forward. >> lucas coons, thank you so much for joining us, greatly appreciate it, thank you for your time. coming up, vladimir putin is now a pariah. russian oligarchy sanctions rockets on russian banks, russia working from the world cup and other events. putin being investigated for war crimes, all that has happened, and yet russia is still advancing on to kyiv. so what is left for the west to convince putin to stand down? that does not include surrendering. how are generally and david faris joins me next. s joins me next.

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pushback, russia is still advancing into kyiv, where it is nearly 8 am there. united says issued severe sanctions against putin and the russian government. european allies have cut off russian banks on the global financial network. fifa has suspended russian teams from competing in the world cup and the u.s. is providing millions more in military aid directly to ukraine. what is next to be done to get vladimir putin to end this invasion of ukraine? joining us now are head-on multi, treasury sanctions during the obama administration and david faris, associate professor of political science at roosevelt university. great to have both of you with us. thank you for joining us. hud are, i will start with you, let us back it up and put wood as happened in context. you and i have spoken about this. the speed and the deliberate

intention of these sanctions. they are pretty big but. >> it's remarkable, it's unprecedented the strength of the sanctions. it's not at the treasury department and europe have not imposed similar sanctions before regarding iran for example. but the reason these are unprecedented and so strong is because russia is such an active member of the international financial system. they are an active trading partner. they have been this is all over the world. and they have assets all over the world, which is very rare when you are dealing with a country that you are actively sanctioning. and by the way, it is very clear that they did not expect these sanctions to be as tough as they were, otherwise they would have moved a lot of their capital out of europe and the united states earlier, or they would have converted a lot of their assets to gold and other currencies. and that in of itself speaks volumes, as of strength. but going to cause a lot of financial pain. we are goes from here remains

on scene. >> professor fares, joe biden will talk to the country tomorrow, how can he martial america? can he bring the public along? i wouldn't say there's necessarily a reluctance on americas part, but certainly there is a need for an explanation as to how long this is going to go on. and how much americans are going to pay a price for domestically. some of the costs but. how does he martial the american public along for? this move >> i think that a lot of the work is being done for him. more the people disapprove of what russia's doing, approve of the american response. and biden is in position to warn the american people and prepare them for sacrifice in the weeks and months to come. whether that be some higher prices at the pump for gas. increased energy bills.

be very wise for economic relief that are affected by any energy increases. and tell everybody with the stakes are. a vulnerable democracy, an ally. unfortunately we cannot commit actual military force to protect ukraine. because that would risk world war three, nobody wants that. and i do think that the american people sympathize with the ukrainians. they're horrified by what they see on their tvs and what they are reading about. and i think this is kind of a lay out for the president. he has to go out there tomorrow night and explain our involvement. he has to explain the package of sanctions that has been put on russia. and talk about with the endgame is, with the hope to achieve. and i think if he does that, and if he does that well i think you will find that the american people come around. >> we were talking about the

speed and the impacts of these sanctions, but if you were to look forward, do we have any other sanctions left in our arsenal that could increase the pressure on russia if russia does not scaled back or retreat from its current operation? me >> the good news is how the treasury crafted sanctions, they always leave things in the hopper. they always have things in the hopper, they can always escalate things further. for example, not all russian financial institutions were cut off from's with. and there are sectors of russia's economy that they can target on the hold. provided i do not think they would take that step, unless united states and europe were shielded from that type of measure. for example if they were to target russia's oil and gas sector more heavily. if they were to target their timber sector. , they're iron, steel, platinum sector. a country that produces index sports, a lot of national resources and benefit in the

billions from that obviously. if not more. me and these are the types of things that the treasury and europe can pursue around. sanctions are moving target. that is the case for any sanctions regime and it's like a game of math whack-a-mole. many targets will find other loopholes. me and the situation with russia that i find me and i hope i'm using the right word, inspirational, not russia's behavior, but the world's behavior me and you stressed this earlier. the way the world has united in these actions. and in particular regarding sanctions. heard you say that when sanctions are imposed, they unleashed global market forces. and that is because banks and businesses and financial institutions take decisions on their own to take activity. switzerland's moved, the bars

rushing vodka. this to me is a sign and gives me hope that we can isolate russia and increased pressure enough to have something. >> i was going to say, the swiss decision has been incredible, just to see. i wish we had more time to think about what that means going forward. unfortunately, we are out of time, thank you both for joining us, greatly appreciate your time. stay with us, we have got a lot more ahead in our next hour. it is morning in kyiv, we are going to be joined by a ukrainian member of parliament who is taking shelter in the capital. she will tell us what is happening on the ground there next. next

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