tuesday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. ♪♪ and good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it is tuesday, march 1st. we are in washington this morning ahead of president biden's first state of the union address tonight. with us onset we have columnist and associate editor for "the washington post" david ignatius. msnbc contributor katty kay. and u.s. national editor at "the financial times" ed luce. willie geist is in new york along with the host of "way too early" and white house pr chief at "politico" jonathan lemire. let's dive in. russian forces are bearing down on the ukrainian capital as new satellite images show they are just 17 miles away from the center of the city. the images released by maxar technologies yesterday showed a 40-mile-long convoy of hundreds

of russian tanks and artillery approaching kyiv. photos show developments of ground forces and attack helicopter units in southern belarus. >> we have much to get to. let's keep the pictures up for a second. david ignatius, it is extraordinarily frustrating for americans and people across the west to see this, a slow-moving train of death to kyiv when, of course, everybody in this country understands you can't do anything in ukraine without launching -- or most understand without starting world war iii. at the same time we're watching in slow motion a humanitarian crisis develop that we could literally take care of in 15 minutes by scrambling jets and wipe this entire convoy off the face of the earth. we can't do that, but the question is why can't the ukrainians with the migs they're getting from the eu, why can't

anything do anything about the slow approaching humanitarian nightmare? >> the answer, joe, must be that their forces have been so far to the point they're not capable of taking the action on what, as you say, is an obvious sitting target if we can see it in these photographs we're looking at, so can the ukrainians. like you, i wake up every morning these days wondering if kyiv has fallen, waiting for the terrible humanitarian crisis that seems ahead. the russians are not backing off. as you say, without directly engaging the russians in a conflict that president biden i think sensibly says is not appropriate for the united states, there is very little we can do except stand with the people of ukraine, support them in whatever ways people can and report their story. i have never been prouder of my colleagues than the journalists i see on television in kyiv and

kharkiv, risking their necks to bring us a true picture of what is happening. >> yeah. it really is incredible reporting. but, ed, it is frustrating. so frustrating for americans, people of the west, people all over the world to see this nightmare unfolding in slow motion. can you explain one more time to our viewers out there that ask why can't america do something about this, why can't they go -- because i do have, i do hear that question an awful lot. my shorthand is, well, because we don't want to start world war iii. >> that's a pretty good answer. i mean i think if we're frustrated now, which we are, anguished by watching this very slow advance of the convoy. only moved three miles yesterday. there are logistical problems there. but if we are frustrated now, i think we ain't seen nothing yet. that frustration is probably going to go through the roof.

we are seeing, i think, the beginnings of a siege situation develop for kyiv and for other major cities like kharkiv, mariupol, all of the major cities are being encircled. so we're going to have massive humanitarian crisis, something that will put what we are looking at today into the shade. the reason why we cannot take that convoy out or impose a no-fly zone or ukraine is because that will automatically entail taking out russian jets, which is war. >> right. >> and war between russia and nato is world war iii. >> yes. >> so that's the reason. >> also, david, to your point you can deduce what nbc's cal perry is backing up with his reporting, that the ukrainians have zero air superiority at this point. that might be why they're asking for the no-fly zone, but it is frustrating to watch. you see this big convoy, willie, just making its way toward the center of kyiv. >> it is a question many people have asked.

in military parlance, those are sitting ducks. you know where they are, they're moving slowly and with any air force you could take them out before they got near kyiv. president zelenskyy he said it remains a key goal for moscow, adding it was hit by three missile strikes yesterday. u.s. officials say ukrainians are putting up a significant fight and slowing down the russians so far. >> we're also seeing the ukrainians put up a very stiff and determined resistance on their capital city. they have made it very difficult for the russians to continue to move ahead. we believe that based on what we know of what their plans were that they are behind schedule, that they have faced a stiffer resistance than they anticipated. >> while ukraine's second largest city kharkiv coming under intense shelling. dozens have been killed in attacks yesterday. they warn casualties could rise. a video released by state emergency services shows a

russian missile hitting kharkiv's government building. no word on deaths there yet. president zelenskyy condemned the attack and called it a war crime. this as the head of a region east of the capital said at least 70 soldiers were killed yesterday after a russian missile attack on a military base. nbc news has not yet identified -- verified those numbers. meanwhile, the international criminal court said it will open an investigation into possible war crimes perpetrated by russia. let's bring in our reporters on the ground. nbc news correspondent cal perry live from lviv, ukraine, in the western part of the country. and nbc international correspondent keir simmons is in moscow. let me begin with you on the ground in ukraine.

you are where there is a refugee crisis under way as the attack continues on the eastern part of the country. >> reporter: yes. look, my access to the front lines and the violence is through the faces of those who are fleeing and we are seeing it here in the city of lviv where hundreds of thousands of people are transiting through and they look shell shocked. people are coming from as far as kharkiv, 600 miles away. we are hearing people packing their cars, taking what they could, driving through the city of kharkiv, getting stuck while the heavy bombardment takes care of them. they get here where it is supposed to be safe and quiet and they are met with air raid sirens. people do not know the scope of which russia will widen the invasion. you talk about the satellite images, maxar technologies, 40 miles of tanks headed to the capital. people are keenly aware of it. we know what russians have played out in the past, grozny,

surrounding it. we have heard a corridor would be opened up for civilians. that sounds good but it is not. what it says is if you remain behind you can be a target. you have a deliberate move by russian forces, while ukrainians are rallying to the front, you have refuges heading to the west. you have young soldiers who never held a weapon before heading to the east of the country. all the while you have president zelenskyy who has emerged as a real leader of the resistance, someone who tapped into the idea ukrainians are desperate to defend their way of life whereas russians, he says, don't know what they're fighting for. later today we will hear from president zelenskyy. he will address the european parliament by some sort of telecommunications. he is not giving away his

location. he wants to join the european union at some time. the border where we see a 20-mile backup at the border, that border would not exist and the humanitarian crisis would be alleviated. he will have that political discussion today. all the while you continue to watch the russian forces moving heavily into more and more urban areas, guys. >> thanks so much, cal. let's go to moscow right now. keir, what's the latest with protests there? also with middle class. again, as you said yesterday, in a state of panic. how are things going there today as the economy, by all accounts, just continues to worsen by the minute? >> reporter: yeah, right now the stock market will not open again for another day, so the pressure, the economic pressure continues. a little bit of news, we have heard from the foreign minister

sergey lavrov speaking by video phone to a meeting of the u.n. saying russia is ready to work jointly with the u.s. on strategic stability and saying it is time for u.s. nuclear weapons in europe to be returned home, just repeating, frankly, the talking points we have heard from him prior to this war. we've also heard from the british prime minister, boris johnson, describing the russian assault as barbaric and indiscriminate. that likely a reference to the attack on kharkiv where we have seen those explosions. we've seen aerial attack weapons being used, allegations of cluster bombs. it is really impactful in another sense because kharkiv is a city, joe, where many people speak russian. there are lots of people of russian background there in that city. so russia is unleashing on a

city that it thought would fall more easily. meanwhile, with kyiv we don't see that same level of bombing. we see that 40-mile convoy. now, it is ominous. i think it is also -- looks a little amateur. where is the camouflage for that convoy? maybe it is a sign of russian confidence, as you mentioned that they do have control of the skies. i was able to listen in to a briefing from western officials yesterday. they were talking about some of the issues that russian forces are facing. so they were talking about the limited space that the russians have with lots of forces together. it is hard to get forces forward. they say that the ukrainians have been effective in denying bridges to the russian forces, and in this briefing with western officials something which i thought was really insightful, they said that what we've heard from president putin

with that essay that he published last year and in speeches where he talked about russia and ukraine being brothers and he believed in the unity of the two countries, that they are one country, well, that idea that ukrainians would welcome the russians, that according to western officials was baked into the russian military strategy. so that tells us a number of things. it tells us, as we know, that president putin is very much leading this, that he planned this strategy, and also that he was misinformed, terribly misinformed. not just about the reaction of the west or the reaction of president zelenskyy, but the way that ukrainians would respond to this onslaught. one other piece of news, by the way, the leader of belarus, alexander lukashenko, telling state media today that his forces will not join russian troops in the invasion of

ukraine. >> interesting. katty, you know -- i know you have a question, but first let's just follow up on something that keir said. their intel has been horrid. they thought they would be greeted as liberators. the disinformation campaign that the west has feared for four or five years has been just dismal. the ukrainians have run circles around them in the disinformation area. there's just a -- would you like to take that outside, ma'am? >> so sorry. it is boris johnson in poland. i am sending it to the team. >> thank you so much. >> without the volume on. >> you usually see it during commercial breaks. >> that's all right. >> anyway, katty, it is hard to find -- >> sorry. it keeps -- >> katty, can you hold this for me, please. >> send it in. >> i would never separate mika from her telephone. that would be a war crime. >> thank you. >> katty, putin has

miscalculated on every front. they're underperforming military. they're underperforming in the disinformation campaign. they're underperforming when it comes to intel. all of their tv stations and government agencies are getting hacked into by anonymous third-party sources. the worst is yet to come. these images that are coming across ukraine, these war crimes, this will hang around vladimir putin's neck for the rest of his life. he is thinking he can do in ukraine what he did in syria. cameras weren't on in syria the way they are here and he's doing this to a people that he is expecting to integrate back into russia? it is hard to imagine a man more disconnected from reality. >> the calculations don't seem to have been good so far and many of the russian soldiers, the extraordinary text read by the ukrainian ambassador and a russian solder and his mother back home in which it became

clear the soldier didn't even know he was going to ukraine. he thought he was just going on exercises. even the people he has sent to fight didn't seem to want to go there, and that -- you know, when you have an african american that doesn't want to fight the people they have been sent to fight -- >> they've been told they would be welcomed. >> they've been told they would be welcomed, you start getting the kind of problems you have now. all of the miscalculations and the setbacks he has had could lead to something much worse. the reason we're all watching the columns is with such terror is because we know what putin could do if he decides to do what he did in grozny and chechnya when he basically carpet bombed the place. cal, you are sitting there in lviv in ukraine, what is the status as far as you understand it in terms of the weaponry that the european union has said it is going to supply to ukrainians to try to defend themselves against some kind of onslaught? we have heard reports that some of the ukrainian pilots are

already in poland and could potentially take off from polish air fields and fly in to ukraine. but just update us on how close they are to getting that help because potentially this is a race against time now. >> reporter: yes, i think this was the big development we started hearing about yesterday. these reports that the pilots were headed to the planes rather than the planes headed to the pilots. you know, we are still waiting for the exact information on that but the conversation that we're having is not lost on the people of lviv. they understand the history of what the russians have done, not just in grozny but in syria where they were double tapping hospitals, and people are very aware of that. we were at a hospital yesterday and i was interviewing a doctor who is a surgeon who had a pistol and he was saying, i'm a doctor, but i'm also a soldier. we were talking to the hospital staff about how do we report on this story. they said, look we want the story out there but do not say the name of the hospital and where the hospital is because we know the russians do and we know what they did in syria and we're ready for it here, we're

expecting it. so, you know, you have these ominous signs, and the fascinating part of the conversation for me is this information war. every morning i wake up, you turn on ukrainian television and i'm met with a string of young russian soldiers being humiliated on ukrainian television. they're having a conversation. do you know why you're here? no, i don't know why i'm here. do you have a message for your mother? >> yes, i want my mom to know i'm sorry and i want to be home. we have an extraordinary moment where we have president zelenskyy going on telegram and speaking in russian to the people in russia saying the information you are getting on russian television is wrong. we are with you, we are part of you, we don't want this war. you have the europeans trying to arm ukraine as best they can while avoiding a face-off with russia. they keep talking about article five, talking about a nation that's attacked and they rally together. of course, ukraine is not part of nato.

they're trying to supply them with weigh they need, which jets are number one on the list, but so too are many other things. you have a drop of the visa requirements from anyone around the world who wants to come and fight in ukraine. that the words of president zelenskyy. foreigners are here to fight the russians. the message implicitly, fight the russians here so you are not fighting them anywhere else in the world. >> mika, there's a great example of what cal just said, in ukraine and actually across the world, the information, the battle for the hearts and minds of the world, the russians are just getting lapped. you were talking about disinformation campaign, russia. it is falling on deaf ears. everybody has a story about these soldiers. everybody has a story. i have heard it from random people that come up and start talking about the sun flower story where the grandmother confronts the soldiers and says basically, get the blank out of my neighborhood but here, put

these sunflower seeds in your pocket because when you die at least something will grow from your body. everybody has heard these stories. i'm telling you. and zelenskyy on telegram, this is one of the great surprises of the war. you never know what is going to happen when you get into a war. it is that the ukrainians have gotten their message out to the world including russia from a president who can speak russian, who can go on telegram, as cal said, and the message is getting out. the atrocities are going to get out. vladimir putin is not only undermining the ukrainian government, every day he is undermining his government more than the day before. >> there are so many ways in which the ukrainians are lapping the russians. you see images of ukrainians approaching tanks, you know, screaming at the russians or if their tanks have run out of gas, laughing at their equipment and, you know, acts of bravery. we have to fact some of them,

but they're running rampant on twitter and on instagram and on facebook, everywhere where the ukrainians are really showing they don't give a damn, they will die for their country, they are staying in their country. we have this image. i want to go to keir simmons. an image of vladimir putin sitting at his desk meeting with cabinet members. look at them all the way down at the other end of the table. >> what a remarkable contrast where you have zelenskyy in the streets at night, keir. >> with his administration around him. >> on the run with his administration huddled around him, and here you have vladimir putin, a lonely, isolated man who is -- what could be more symbolic than this picture about how disconnected this man is from reality and others? >> reporter: yeah, that's the worry as well, isn't it, how disconnected is he?

who is he talking to? who is giving him advice? is he really just alone with his own thoughts. there are those western officials who have been saying that he appears to be lashing out to underlings, that he is getting angry, upset. so the decisionmaking process is an important one that western intelligence officials will be focused on, and a lot i'm afraid does hang on president putin himself because, you know, he is the boss. he is the godfather. he is the one man band. he is the general. you know, he is the one who will make the final decisions, and i would say that's important when you think about something else, and i have listened to the conversation that you guys are having. there's a deconfliction issue here and we have to go back to the cold war and the conversations that were had between the u.s., western europe and the ussr, to just think a little bit about that.

communication is important and perhaps that's why it was important there were talks between the ukrainians and the russians yesterday, and i will tell you why. when you guys are talking about, for example, planes being flown by ukrainians from poland, well, russian forces aren't going to know who is piloting those planes necessarily. when we talk about the supplies from nato into ukraine, how are those supply lines going to be managed? how are they going to get them across the border? who is going to take them across the border? i say all of that because the issue here is if the russians target those supply lines or target those planes, and you have to expect they will, are they targeting nato? is an attack by the russians on the supply lines, on those planes, is that an attack on nato? does that therefore mean article five? again, that takes us into the territory of a confrontation between russia and western europe and america. so you have to hope that somewhere, maybe not at the level of president putin, those

conversations might be happening. i suspect the russians would want those conversations to happen because that would put pressure on the west about those supply lines, about supporting the ukrainians. that's the kind of detail when you get into conflict, when you get into war that can matter a great deal. >> keir simmons in moscow, thank you very much, keir. nbc's cal perry in ukraine, thank you as well. joe and mika, there's the military miscalculation by putin, there's the disinformation loss he is suffering, an alleged genius of disinformation getting lapped as you said by the ukrainians. and we haven't touched yet on the economic collapse he is suffering inside his country he brought upon himself because of the russian sanctions. the ruble is collapsing, inflation rates are through the roof, the stock market is falling and the russian people are saying, for what? you are destroying our economy for what, president putin? >> and it is, it is devastating. you are seeing oligarchs now

actually that have been close to vladimir putin for 20 years who understand, david, have seen what happens when other oligarchs cross putin, they get their money taken from them an thrown in jail. some are actually putting out carefully worded statements calling for peace. i just -- in history, and i have read a lot of history, through the years i can't think of another war that was brought on by a single person with -- with his leaders opposing it, with military people concerned about it, soldiers on the field asking, "why are we here." we are seeing this day in and day out. this is not a comforting thing. it makes it all the more frightening how isolated this -- i've got to say this madman is. >> well, i think that's the

issue that's most troubling, is this a leader who is now irrational. intelligence sources have been describing to me a russian leader who is isolated, who sees fewer and fewer people, who doesn't see people who will question his military plans, who will raise issues about how russian troops will, in fact, be greeted in ukraine. the visuals, the picture of this table as long as a bowling allie with the leader at one end and others at the other end tells us everything. marco rubio said on friday that vladimir putin is off, that's our intelligence reading of him, he is off. the mistakes he has made, he made three miscalculations. he miscalculated the ukrainians, he really didn't think they would fight, and he certainly

miscalculated president zelenskyy who has been an unlikely but magnificent hero who inspired the whole world. he miscalculated the europeans. he never could have imagined germany would, in fact, double its defense budget. >> and nato. because donald trump for four years tried to dismember nato bit by bit. who would have imagined -- >> probably cooperation. >> -- nato would be stronger and more relevant now than any time since maybe the early 1960s. people don't understand, even in the late '60s you had de gaulle who was also a troublesome presence in nato. this is the most unified. ed, i saw yesterday somebody talk about what's happened over the past week in europe, and i forget -- it was actually i saw a tweet. but they were so right. the europe that existed last

week no longer exists. we have awakened to a new europe, a sort of europe who is going to be an even more fulsome -- noah rothman. noah rothman with commentary said this. we have a stronger ally. if you look at germany with their gdp putting in 2%, at least 2% into the military, compare their gdp to russia's gdp, germany is going to be spending more on their military than russia. you've got sweden coming off the sidelines. you have the swiss, who were neutral when hitler was sweeping across europe. the swiss are now involved. vladimir putin, again, a gross miscalculation. if he thinks it is bad now, when

he reduces kyiv to, you know, aleppo, my god. he will then be a hunted man. >> yeah, what's i think most remarkable about this is that it is coming from the ground up in europe. you would appreciate this in particular, joe. >> yes. >> but soccer games. >> yes. >> you are seeing the ukrainian flag. >> the protests. >> you are seeing people singing the ukrainian anthem. they're treating the ukrainian players in the various clubs as heroes. uefa and fifa follow by kicking russia out of the world cup. it is coming from the crowds. it is across europe. it is in germany, it is in spain, it is in england. it is quite remarkable grassroots feeling that people have. i think it is being led from below. i think it is appropriately a democratically led response. that old quote from lenin for

decades nothing happens, and then it happens. germany is doubling its defense budget. the swedes, neutral. >> and the swiss. >> the fins are probably going to have a referendum for the fins to join nato. >> and there will be a line for countries to join nato. >> yes. >> which, again, this is something that vladimir putin -- it is his worst nightmare. so the question i think we have to get to at some point is how do we move him away from where we're going? because it gets worse for him. >> we're going to have much more on all of this still ahead on "morning joe." the biden administration announces another fresh round of sanctions against russia, and europe's largest oil company, shell, is joining its rival bp and stepping away from operations in that country.

we will take a look at the economic implications playing out in moscow. plus, we will be joined by a member of the ukrainian parliament who has been in washington working on diplomatic outreach amid russia's invasion. also ahead, what to expect when president biden delivers his first state of the union address tonight. we'll get jonathan lemire's latest reporting on that. now as we go to break, another example of ukrainian leadership speaking directly to the world and to the russian parents whose children are being led into battle about the devastating war playing out. . >> here's an actual screen shot from someone who is dead already. >> translator: mama, i'm in ukraine. there is a real war raging here. i am afraid. we are bombing all of the cities

together, even -- even targeting civilians. we were told that they would welcome us and they are falling under our armored vehicles, throwing themselves under the wheels and not allowing us to pass. they call us fascists. mama, this is so hard. and this is several moments before he was killed. when traders tell us how to make thinkorswim® even better, we listen. because platforms this innovative aren't just made for traders —they're made by them. thinkorswim® by td ameritrade and it's easy to get a quote at libertymutual.com

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♪♪ hey, welcome back to "morning joe." it is 6:35 right now on the east coast. the biden white house waking up this morning, not only going to be following just the horrific news out of ukraine with several major, major cities besieged by russian troops but also preparing for a state of the union address tonight. willie, it is his first chance

in a state of the union to speak to the american people. he is a president with a 37% approval rating according to the latest "washington post" poll. he needs to get some points across to the american people desperately tonight. >> he does, but the context has changed in the last week with this war in ukraine which obviously will be top of mind for everyone. we will talk about that in just a minute, jonathan lamire, but let's first talk about the united states response to the war in ukraine and its assessment of what is happening there. obviously the sanctions have been put forth. we have talked about how they crippled the russian economy, arms flowing into ukraine. what is the state department, what is the department of defense, what does the white house think as they look at the situation and where it may be headed next? >> they are still cautious. these are senior defense intelligence officials i have spoken to in the last couple of days that these are still early days in the invasion. they do know that the russians have moved slower here than they expected and putin has grown frustrated, and they feel like the russian president is

approaching, not there yet, approaching an inflection point where he can make a decision it is going badly militarily and playing poorly at home. is there a chance for some sort of off ramp? is there a face-saving measure, perhaps a separatist territory where putin can cut his losses and get out and it would be a win for the ukrainian people or does putin feel he has to win to hang on to power and that's when the convoy is unleashed, if putin steps up the number of shelling and sends more troops in. he has only sent in half of the troops gathered at the border, he certainly has many more to go. one thing white house officials and we heard from the pentagon is pushing back against the idea of a no-fly zone and want to clarify what it is. it is not a magic carpet you can put over a country and say, hey, nobody flies here.

it is an area where they will shoot them down. u.s. forces will not engage with russian and they're hopeful some of the arms arriving from the west will get there in the coming days. >> there's a sense of futility. if you look at that column, if it was somewhere that america could bring its forces they would be incinerated. let's talk about the state of the union. as joe said, he has high 30s in some polls in his ratings. he would love to turn the page, but obviously ukraine will be the attention. >> the conflict between russia and ukraine will be a major piece of it. the president hoped to focus on domestic issues and to turn the page and focus on pieces of the build back better agenda. of course, that bigger package is defunct but there are

elements they can resuscitate. he will talk about that to a degree. he also needs to address an uneasy, unhappy american people. it is not just the poll numbers as we head into the midterms, and they are concerned feeling that they could lose both houses of congress, but the american people are frustrated. they feel inflation. they see the pull-out today suggesting that half of the country thinks the nation is in a recession or depression. it is not the case but people are unhappy, they're antsy about the economy. they're ready to turn the page on the pandemic, which is why there will be some symbolism. there won't be many masks in the room. the president is trying to push a return to normalcy, trying to say inflation will get better, my domestic policies can work but it is overshadowed with the standoff with russia. >> it will be interesting to see how president biden addresses the war in the larger context of

preserving democracy abroad and references to what is happening in this country right now, and being careful not to declare mission accomplished on covid but saying, look, the masks are off in this room because of the work we have done in the last year and change and we are able to move through it and hope it is gone for good. >> exactly. it is very important. we have said it before, mika, he doesn't tick down a list of sanctions that they're putting out there, that he doesn't tick down a list of legislative accomplishments at the beginning. he needs to start in broad themes. he can't go straight to the economy. the world's eyes right now are on kyiv. they're on ukraine. while most americans don't want us to go there, most americans wanted us to get out of afghanistan, and the perceived failure in doing that cost him dearly in leadership points. so while americans may not want to get directly engaged in ukraine, they are looking for

their president to tell them what's going on and what america's role is in the world there. one of the things that many people around barack obama would always say is, well, if we can't control it, it is not really the president's job to talk about it. that's about as misguided of a view of what a president's role is in having the bully pulpit. joe biden tonight for the first time in a long time and for the first -- for the last time in quite a while is going to have the bully pulpit. he needs to use that bully pulpit to channel churchill, to channel jfk, to channel ronald reagan in talking about an autocracy, in talking about tyranny, in talking about freedom, and then he can launch into the rest of the speech. >> he needs to explain it is a big moment for the world. we are right now in a massive, collective moment.

i worry he gets bogged down in build back better and other legislative initiatives and goals and this and that. i think he needs to step up into the global sense of what is going on and explain it to the american people. david ignatius, i've heard from some insiders that he is being advised, go big or go home. >> so it is part of joe biden's story that people have underestimated him in every campaign, and he is going to have to find that gear that he has tonight where he becomes somebody powerful. as i have watched him over the years, there's something joe biden does better than almost any politician, which is to empathize with people who are suffering. >> yes. >> people who have suffered loss the way he did when he lost his first wife and his children, when he lost his son. and when he goes into that gear and reaches out and expresses the human emotion that we feel

as we watch the bombing of kharkiv and kyiv and we think about the sons and daughters, maybe he will find a way to speak a language that the whole world gets. >> uh-huh. >> but that is the thing that he does best. as joe said, going down lists and, you know, naming key international principles that are being violated, that's not going to get him there, but there is something else that he has that's uniquely his that i hope he will play on tonight. >> ed, western liberalism, western democracy has been under attack over the past five, six, seven years. you saw it with donald trump attacking nato, attacking madisonian democracy, attacking the rule of law, attacking the free press. you saw that in poland with the law and justice party. you saw that in hungary. of course, their north star was always vladimir putin who was the most tyrannical.

that's all changed in the past week. my god, poland, what extraordinary allies they are right now. you look at hungary, even orbahn came out, who would have believed it, came out criticizing vladimir putin. you have so many other people here speaking, republicans talking like republicans used to speak when i was a republican, when ronald reagan was in the white house, when margaret thatcher was at 10 downing. they're lullity talking about librariual democracy and what is at stake there. you look at the institutions of nato over the past week. the european union, as i said, and you jokingly responded, hey, the chocolate makers? pretty damn good allies after y'all. and you said, yeah, and i hear they make a few good cars, too. the world has changed. it is a crisis in ukraine. but the western world that was

under attack from vladimir putin, from donald trump, from victor orbahn, from trumpists in america, it is no longer under attack. the eu is stronger than ever. nato is stronger than ever. western democracies, institutions stronger than ever, and it all happened this week. that's something for the president to talk about instead of saying, yeah, the s.w.i.f.t. banking sanction, if you look at the two banks. no, no, no. don't full reagan. go full churchill. >> i agree. this is the other miscalculation putin made, not just the spirit of the european people but the response of the european union and the united states. something that he thought he could further divide them, that he could exploit the weaknesses

in our democracy to have a cake walk in ukraine and he has achieved the opposite. i think it is a galvanizing moment for liberal democracy, unprecedented since 1989. this is a 1989 moment for liberal democracy because it is a spiritual moment. this is a moral reaction we are seeing from people, that this just cannot be done anymore. >> right. >> i think if biden can harness that and put america really as the orchestrator of it in alliance with our allies, the allies who -- you know, let's make no mistake. if trump had been reelected, i don't think there's any doubt we would be halfway towards exiting nato. >> no doubt. would be gone. >> for sure. to your point, ed, i wonder, and a question for you, joe, if biden tonight, and i'm thinking of mitt romney's comments earlier this week saying, "i have morons on my team."

if this moment in history and what is happening in ukraine is a way biden can explain to his republican counterparts that this is why we have to come back to our democratic values, that if these people can stand up to putin perhaps you can stand up to a tweet from donald trump and come back to american values. this is the one thing that we can agree on when we see the carnage that is happening across the world. >> i think -- what is it? res ipsa loquodor. i think that speaks for itself. >> does it? you see some of them cozying up to putin. >> this is the problem with twitter. you have america more united than it has ever been really, and you will see somebody going to a convention somewhere, somebody else saying something stupid on a television show. but, katty, those are the exceptions.

these people have been more marginal iced every day. mitch mcconnell yesterday, a blistering statement attacking members that went to him, and this is -- again, these people are becoming more and more isolated because what was in vogue six months ago, a year ago, suddenly, well, it has just crashed up against reality. these putin-loving illiberal democrats looking very, very bad right now. >> if i was advising biden tonight i would say, first of all, keep it shorter perhaps than you might normally do in order to harness the churchillian he needs to have. you have the unity david has spoken about, you have the unity of the world ed has spoken about. we are doing this as zelenskyy has said to defend western

values. >> speaking of zelenskyy, let's go. president zelenskyy right now is speaking through the voice of a translator to the european -- >> translator: with today we're giving lives for values, for rights, for freedom, for the desire to be equal as much as you are. we are -- the most value-based ones. ukrainians are incredible, and very often we love to say that we will win over everyone, and i'm very happy that you are not only talking about it but you can see that. we, indeed, we will overcome everyone. i'm sure, i'm convinced there is

an expression, ukrainian choice, european choice of ukraine. that's what we're striving for and that's what we're going to and we went to. so i would like to hear that from you to us we could hear that ukrainian choice for europe from you. i have -- i have some time off here because we have breaks between the missile strikes and bombardness and this morning was a very tragic one for us. two cruise missiles hit kharkiv, the city which is located to the borders of the russian federation. there were always many russians there and they are always friendly, there were warm relations there. more than 20 universities are

there. it is the city that has the largest number of universities in our country. the youth is bright, smart there. the people who gathered there all the time and were gathering there all the time for celebrating all celebrations on the largest square in our country, the freedom square, and this is the largest square in europe and that's true. this is called the freedom square. can you imagine? this morning two cruise missiles hit this freedom square. dozens of killed ones. this is the price of freedom. we are fighting just for our land and for our freedom despite the fact that all the cities of

our country are now blocked. nobody is going to enter and intervene with our freedom and country. believe you me, every square of today, no matter what it is called, is going to be called as today freedom square in every city of our country. nobody is going to break us. we are strong. we are ukrainians. we have a desire to see our children alive. i think it is a fair one. yesterday 16 children were killed. again and again president putin is going to say that is some kind of operation and we are -- a military infrastructure. our children, what kind of military factories do they work at? what tanks are they going with

or launching cruise missiles. he killed 16 people just yesterday. our people are very much motivated, very much so. we are fighting for our rights, for our freedoms, for life, for our life, and now we are fighting for survival and this is the highest of our motivation. but we are fighting also to be equal members of europe. i believe that today we are showing everybody that's exactly what we are. the european union is going to be much stronger with us, that's for sure. without you, ukraine is going to

be lonely -- lonesome. we have proven our strengths. we have proven that as at a minimum we are exactly the same as you are. so do prove that you are with us, do prove that you will not let us go, do prove that you, indeed, are europeans, and then life will win over death and light will win over darkness. glory be to ukraine. >> a standing ovation. >> look at that. >> willie, president zelenskyy getting a standing ovation. what an extraordinary address while he is hiding from russia -- indiscriminate russian missile strikes. the european union, which has

offered military support, which has offered fighting jets, part of a europe that has awakened this week and understood the threat from russia, the threat from the russian bear. zelenskyy says no one is going to break us. we are ukrainian. we are fighting for our lives, willie, he says. we are fighting for our land, we are fighting for our families. we have proven our strength and we have proven that we belong in the european union. now prove that you are with us, and then he goes on and says that they're going to continue fighting for their land, life and liberty and ends by saying "glory to ukraine." >> in an extraordinary moment where the translator got choked up and had to pause as the

translator listened to his president deliver that message from a bunker. the churchill comparisons are exhausted perhaps at this point, but the president of ukraine addressing the country and the world and europe from a bunker while his country is under attack was an extraordinary, extraordinary war-time moment. he said we're fighting for survival but more than that we are fighting for freedom. we have a desire to see our children alive. i think that's fair, you said. now, david ignatius, turning the page and pushing it forward he said, you have seen who we are, we have shown you who we are. now we want to officially be part of your union, receiving a standing ovation from the european parliament. what does the european parliament do from here? do they admit ukraine to the eu? how could they say no after what he just said. >> it was an electric moment. as ed said earlier, there's a bottom-up movement. that's what has been decisive. the europeans were strongly

against adding new members. they were fed up with the ever-expanding union. i think volodymyr zelensky and the way the ukrainians have exhibited courage will be irre-sisible for them. i think what starts today is a real process. how accelerated it will be i don't know for ukraine to join the european union. in that moment vladimir putin will have failed. whatever suffering comes after that, however many buildings get shattered by these bombs, he will have failed. >> yeah. >> i think that's part of what we just saw in that remarkable speech. there's this man in a gray tee shirt in a bunker, you know, speaking with such power. anybody who heard that i think takes it away and says, what can i do to help bring this man, this country into the circle of nations. >> and really saying we're fighting for ukraine, but ukraine is you.

right from the beginning of the speech he was making the case maybe joe biden needs to make tonight. we are you. >> yes, he needs to channel that. >> we are your values. we are fighting for western values, for european values and for democracy. we are doing this for you. >> and this as, again, this is something that joe biden actually can plug into. this is a battle that we've all been talking about over the past five, six years, western democracy, liberal democracy, institutions that have guided us safely in the post-world war that's prevented world wars. they have been attacked. they've been attacked by donald trump. they've been attacked by victor orbahn. they've been attacked by populists in country after country. of course, in russia, but you

look at in zelenskyy there, and the term churchillian, the word is overused. but in this case you listen to the churchill speeches and what gives them the power is, you know, churchill is speaking looking into the abyss. there's no reason to believe that he's going to succeed in moving his country through the battle of britain, these attacks from nazis every night, and yet he convinces them. i was telling somebody this yesterday. it was extraordinary. even at the height of the blitz only 3% of brits thought they were going to lose the war because he lifted entire nation. you can't find another example of that in recent history. >> no. >> until now. we are seeing it every night with zelenskyy who faces death, who tells people, "i may not see you tomorrow, this may be the last time i see you, continue the fight."

and that speech while the eu watched, while europe watched, while the world watched, simply churchillian. we are fighting for our land, we are fighting for our lives, we are fighting for our future. >> yeah, the churchillian-ness of this will be reinforced by the fact he gets a standing ovation from the european parliament at a time he is saying, "now you have to admit us." i don't believe it is going to be possible not to admit ukraine. it might take time, it will obviously take time. this is something europe has not seriously considered before. now i think it is going to happen. i think with zelenskyy himself in that bunker as david was putting so well, not knowing, you know, whether his kids will be killed. >> right. >> he has kept his kids there with him in kyiv. his wife has said i know he's number one target, i'm number two target. you cannot watch that and not react deeply, viscerally to what

he is appealing for us to do, which is to say we are all ukrainians now. >> and it is a gripping life-and-death story playing out before our eyes. willie geist, as we hit the top of the hour and we look at all of the things that we're dealing with coming in news wise here, the war in ukraine, the president's first state of the union tonight, it is interesting. you brought up the division here in america, but it is an interesting parallel. the division here in america over whether or not to have a plastic or a paper mask on versus the division in the world right now as to whether or not to allow ukraine to be a democracy and whether or not to stand up to the forces of putin. i really hope the president tonight shows america the example of ukraine. >> yeah, and just quote some of that speech we just watched if you want to show some of the

sacrifices being made halfway around the world. it is interesting, a lot of people that were fighting the masks, and as jonathan reported there won't be a mask mandate in there to night, have rallied around this president zelenskyy in this case. we have seen with a few exceptions of extremists in the republican party and on tv and other places, they have rallied around the cause of western democracy and it sits with that man right now, volodymyr zelenskyy. jonathan, these two stories now are intertwined, the state of the union and the war in ukraine. the question becomes how does joe biden, how does the president in his first state of the union bring these together as he addresses the country. >> the other line from president zelenskyy's speech that grabbed me, he talked about a square in a ukrainian city destroyed by a russian bomb called freedom square. he said, from now on every square throughout this country shall be known as freedom square. president biden came into office talking about how his

administration needed to restore the american citizens faith in democracy. democracy could still work. he took the oath of office two weeks after the insurrection at the u.s. capitol that was an attempt to interrupt one of our most sacred traditions of our democracy, the nation frustrated by the response to the pandemic rising, authoritarians across the globe, and president biden said -- wanted to frame his term in office as a rebuttal to that, to say democracy could still work. we are not the america of donald trump. we are bigger and better than this. a lot of this when he would talk about this, it was aimed largely at china. russia was sort of a footnote to this. now, of course, russia takes center stage. i think aides have told me they will be drawing that contrast again. he will make that argument and use in forceful terms that democracies can work, democracies need to stand together, he will point how europe and nato are so tightly

aligned and how the u.s. is a driving force behind that to prove democracies can stand up to autocracies like russia and the violence they're putting forth on ukraine. >> one more thing, katty, that i think we need to give our viewers perspective. the russias are moving towards keefe in -- kyiv in a massive convoy. they're preparing to circle other cities. chances are very good they will succeed in taking kyiv, they will succeed in taking other countries. it is important to remember when that happens vladimir putin's problems, real problems begin because we raced through iraq and we got situated in iraq, and that was the beginning of our nightmare. the ukrainians in that speech, in the streets, what you are seeing everywhere are showing themselves to be people who are going to fight back. if they take buildings in

kyiv -- >> they take zelenskyy. >> they can take the buildings, but they're going to be fighting a country that has such, i must say, an extraordinary sense of purpose and self-identity. one other thing we haven't talked about before, we have talked about the russians and putin since, that they're being encircled and being enclosed in upon. because of their sense of history he's reacting the way he is reacting, but we do overlook the fact -- and anne applebaum wrote an entire book about it -- stalin killed over 2 million, 3 million ukrainians, systematically starved them to death. there are people alive today who lost parents and grandparents in the great famine and in the stalin purges where russia was not a friend. russia was actually, you know, stalin was actually a brutal

dictator that killed 2 million, 3 million of their people. >> yeah. putin has lost this already. he will presumably take kyiv and inflict hideous amounts of loss on the poor people of ukraine, but his problems, as you said, joe, then begin. the question for the west is does our resolve hold. if we get into a kind of frozen situation in ukraine where people are -- there's an insurgency that's a low level but he has his puppet government installed in kyiv, then how does the west keep up the pressure? then how does the west keep up its own unity? it remind me of, you know, 2008 john mccain said, we are all georgians now, but we weren't. >> it is different. >> could we keep it going? this could go on for a long time. >> as mike mcfaul said, who wants to be putin's puppet in ukraine. >> no. >> i think it probably would be

a job more dangerous than number three in al qaeda in 2006, 2007. who wants this job? i'm saying this seriously, they're going to have a very short term. >> so more than half a million ukrainians fleeing the russian invasion have entered neighboring countries. more than 280,000 have gone to pole yantd. another 94,000 to hungary. nearly 40,000 are in moldova and tens of thousands more in other countries. some ukrainians have also reportedly gone to russia. poland, the country that has accepted the most refugees, called the invasion one of the biggest humanitarian crises since world war ii. >> we keep our borders open, our diplomatic missions help those who seek refuge in poland. the nationalities of all countries who suffer from

russian aggression or whose lives are at risk can seek shelter in my country. i can tell you only for first half of today we welcomed people of 150, 125 nationalities fleeing ukraine to poland. that means it concerns us all. >> joining us from a train station at the polish border with ukraine, nbc news correspondent kelley cobiella. kelly, what are you seeing on r there? >> reporter: each train has about 2,000 people coming in from ukraine. this is something we have seen playing out every day. those numbers anyway, every day for about three days, have been coming over the border. of course, since the fighting began last week. i want to show you just a little bit of video we have shot overnight because poland has really mobilized an army of

volunteers, of basically reservists, national guardsmen, their equivalent of, and municipal workers to try to help all of these people coming across the border. it is a massive effort at this train station. there's a place where you can -- where people can take a break, sleep overnight, rest, warm up. as i have been saying over the past couple of days, people are exhausted when they get here. they're traumatized. they've been traveling for a day, two, three days from all different parts of the country, and they really just need time to catch their breath. also here at the train station they can also -- there are signs everywhere saying, free transport, free water, free food, free blankets and clothing, and they can come in here. there's a bank of volunteers who will help them with their paperwork and help them figure out where to go next. a lot of people we've spoken to have family here and they're meeting up with family or they have friends in poland or other

parts of europe and they're slowly making their way to those friends and family. trains are all free here for ukrainians or people coming from ukraine, so that's a great help. but, look, we are talking about massive, massive numbers. the polish prime minister yesterday said it is a crisis that is growing by the hour. they're seeing 100,000 people a day come into this country alone. and, as you mentioned, they're coming into bordering countries as well. poland has opened its arms to these people. the european union is talking about giving them three years of temporary residency so they can work, they can access benefits, but there is mounting pressure on other countries around the world, not least of which the uk. boris johnson, the prime minister, is here today, to open their doors as well and to allow some of these people in because, quite frankly, poland and these

neighboring countries cannot continue to take these numbers indefinitely. mika, we know that it is just not clear how long this is going to last. >> all right. >> wow. >> thank you so much, kelly. we greatly appreciate your report from an area -- ed luce is writing his biography. it is where dr. brzezinski was born. >> that's right. and lviv was then part of poland where your grandfather was born. this, mika, to you i believe means so much more to you. >> in so many ways with mark serving in poland and my father and grandfather and my brother ian worked in ukraine in '93 and '94, helping them build national security policy, helping the growing nation. >> so, ed, let's talk about

poland for a minute. this is something that often politicians don't understand. it is something that americans sometimes don't quite grasp because politicians aren't walking them through it. you take a country like poland who over the past five, six years or so have had policies that we have found to be anti-democratic or illiberal. there's been a back and forth with the judiciary, and yet we have maintained a strong relationship with poland despite everything else. here you have on the other side of all of that, you have the pols doing extraordinary things, welcoming the 82nd airborne in. ambassador brzezinski says that

wherever they walk they are greeted with hugs and flowers and nothing but support. there's a certain awe that pols have for what they can do and how quickly they can -- >> the 82nd airborne is there, it is just amazing. they're just amazing. >> yeah, the 82nd airborne. and at the same time you look at what they're doing, opening their borders and inviting everyone in. just a massive influx of people. again, this is what allies are supposed to do. >> yeah. >> and they've been great allies. >> polish nationalism, the romantic element is based on what russians have done to poland, the divisions, the betrayals, the warsaw uprising, watching it be crushed. poland empathy for ukraine is unsurpassable. nobody can feel it more than the pols. >> for sure. >> it is interesting. on the pro-trump side of poland

in polish side of politics in recent years, they're not very split on this, orbahn is a putin admirer. he is sort of on the tucker carlson or donald trump part of politics. >> again, i hate to keep going back to this, but if you talk to pols about russia, david ig ignatius, they will go back to the massacre. dr. brzezinski would still bring it up. it is still a part of their identity, what the soviets did to them. they won't forget it. orban may forget it. they will never forget it and never align with russia. >> mika, i was in poland a few weeks ago and i just heard the

intensity, the passion of the polish feeling of nationalism, of the roots of their culture, of their anger at what putin is doing with russia, and of their solidarity with ukraine. that's the most important lifeline that ukraine will have going forward. a very dark heard is about to begin, as we've been saying. it is wonderful to hear zelenskyy give his speech this morning, but just over the next day or two we are going to see some nightmare scenes of a country being crushed and its best friend will be its closest friend, poland. we will be trying to help in every way we can, but we've said we're not going to provide troops. the pols said we will provide a corridor to help your partisans, your resistance struggles in these days ahead. so poland is crucial. i can only imagine, mika, what your dad would say if he were at the table with us here. he would just feel the deepest pride and conviction, not just

about ukraine, poland, but about all of europe. i mean your dad loved europe and the idea that a strong europe would work with the united states to really make the modern world we want to live in. >> he would definitely be so proud. >> he would be so proud, and then he would look at me and say, mika, why are you still with -- >> come on. >> ed luce, thank you so much. >> thank you, ed. >> please keep that part out of your book. >> it is a highlight. >> exactly, exactly. >> we will be joined by a ukrainian lawmaker on the heels of president zelenskyy's passionate address to the european parliament. also ahead this morning. why do we put your men and women in this situation? we didn't learn enough from the horrors of the past? people, we need to speak up against leaders that are breaking the support. we cannot let more putins of the world. we cannot be use plain lifelike

it is monopoly. life is not monopoly game. life is real. >> and that powerful message from chef jose andres. he's on the ground in poland with his organization, world central kitchen, feeding refugees from ukraine. he joins us ahead. we also have pentagon correspondent helene cooper here onset. we will be right back with much more "morning joe." inner voice (design studio owner): i'm over here waiting... ... looking intensely for a print that i never actually printed... ... so i don't have to deal with that terrifying pile of invoices. intuit quickbooks helps you easily send your first invoice in 3 steps. simple. your shipping manager left to “find themself.” leaving you lost. you need to hire. i need indeed. indeed you do. indeed instant match instantly delivers quality candidates matching your job description. visit indeed.com/hire

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energy giant shell says it is pulling its operations from russia, including a major liquified natural gas plant. in the latest major western energy company to quit. the oil-rich company following the invasion of ukraine. the day comes a day after bp abandoned its stake in the european giant, a move that could cost the company over $25 million. shell intends to end its involvement in the nord stream 2 pipe like. this as other companies such as total energies and exxon face questions about whether they will follow suit. joining us now, pentagon correspondent for "the new york times" helene cooper and senior director at "national review" jay nordlinger.

>> he will take the director title. you could say editor, director, whatever. so, helene, let's start with you. it has to be so frustrating for pentagon officials to see that convoy as it slowly snakes its way towards kyiv, knowing that we have the power to take it out in a couple of minutes and yet we can't do anything. >> hi, joe. thanks for having me. it is true we do have the power but president biden has said and the reality is no american really wants to go to war with russia right now, although i will be curious to see how that public calculus changes if things really go south. but the pentagon officials right now say the ukrainian army is doing a not bad job itself of taking on that convoy. that convoy is moving so slowly

that they are a line of sitting ducks. the one thing during -- i remember i was embedded with the third id during the iraq invasion and we were in a convoy for the march up. the one thing that was drummed, and i still have these memories drummed into coming over the headphones, you have to keep moving, you have to keep moving, if you stop, you know, you are open to fire. they keep stopping and the ukrainians have -- the ukrainian military has proven surprisingly adept at they're taking -- they're taking out a lot of russian troops. they're taking out a lot of russian vehicles because that convoy is moving so slowly. >> is the pentagon surprised by how poorly russia has executed its invasion? >> yes, yes. they're not as good as a lot of people thought they -- that they would be. the expectation is that the russian military will learn from its mistakes, that they will correct them, and they are going to get the job done.

but clearly vladimir putin, when he massed 150,000 to 190,000 troops, whichever number it is that we're going with, thought he could get this done in a much more surgical way, that he could avoid the kind of civilian carnage that people expect is coming so that he wouldn't have the kind of wrath that he is getting from the world. he is not achieving those military goals at the moment. so now he is bringing -- the result is that he is bringing out the really heavy artillery and he is shelling these cities, he is hitting residential buildings, he is striking kharkiv in the hearts of these areas in a way that is just going to further isolate him in the world. it is raising -- because of the way he is being forced to wage this war now, he is going to have a higher price to pay. >> and, willie, we have seen so many moving things surrounding

the opening stages of this war. we just saw the president talking about there's a battle between right and wrong, good versus evil, darkness versus light. jay has written movingly about some of the experiences that he has seen, that we've all experienced over the past several days. certainly it is reminiscent of 1989. >> yeah, the piece is titled for "the national review" "the spirit of snake island." people will recognize it was a famous moment a few days ago when the ukrainian soldiers isolated on the island were met by russian warship, said to russian warship go blank yourself. they were fired on. the russian navy said they were captured but alive. if you write about the piece, it extends around the world. switzerland stepping up and imposing sanctions on russia.

protests in the streets of moscow. protests in the streets of belarus, places we wouldn't expect to see them. it has been extraordinary to see the consensus build around the world. >> yes, and those demonstrators in russia are incredibly brave and the demonstrators in belarus. they're risking their neck. i think they're trying to reclaim, the russians, some of their national honor. they don't choose to be ruled by this dictatorship. they don't have much say. this is a stain on them and the russian nation. i have also thought of the russian soldiers, the people assaulting ukraine. what do they think? are their hearts in it? i doubt it. but ukrainian hearts are in this fight and the ukrainians are badly outmatched with the russians, but the ukrainians have a kind of righteous spirit on their side. is that enough? probably not. maybe in the long term it will be, but i can't imagine that

your average russia soldiers wants to be doing this. >> the expectation as we were just discussing and helene and others have said is that it will get worse from here, that russia -- that convoy we are looking at if it is not stopped will purpose into kyiv and elsewhere and there will be ugly scenes. there will be scenes of horror. the question will be can that ukrainian spirit remain where it is. can that spirit around the world sustain them. what do you see happening next here? >> it is hard to say, but these are terrifying times and putin's military is terrorizing ukraine. this is what they've done in syria. they're bombing apartment buildings. these are war crimes. this is nasty stuff. how long can the ukrainians hold out? i don't know. who will come to their aid? more support is very important, but there's also the question of material support and the ukrainians are outside the

circle, so to speak, outside nato, outside the eu. as they and others have said, ukrainian leaders have said, they're the front line in a broader war between -- call it dictatorship and freedom, and they have been for a long time, since 2014, but it has been quieter. >> ukrainians, of course, are desperate for reinforcements, for the weapons coming from the west. there's a theory that the convoys, that we're seeing in kharkiv and kyiv they may not invade but just encircle them and prevent supplies from getting inside. talk to us about the spirit of the ukrainians. that would be an extremely dire moment, the spirit they would have to display then, but what if the russians capture the cities? what does it look like? is it years of on and off guerilla warfare? what kind of leader could putin install that ukrainians would respect? >> that's exactly right.

we have seen this kind of thing before. when i was coming of age countries, cities were being liberated. we have seen in recent times the chinese government crackdown on hong kong. that was strange. as perry linked the scholar said, we're seeing a thriving city murdered before our eyes. here ukraine -- the putin forces are attempting to subjugate ukraine. the ukrainian are trying not to have it. they've put a lie to the idea that the ukrainians aren't a real country, they're just russians with a peculiar accent and really belong in the russian fold. ukrainians themselves don't think so including russian speakers. one reason it is terrifying is that putin is being humiliated right now. things are going badly for him, so how will he react? his pride is at stake. maybe his power in pos cow is at stake and he will throw at these people everything he has. >> so, david ignatius, jay, from

jay's article i want to read one part. one of the most moving videos i have seen in recent days or ever is this. a german woman translates a message from president zelenskyy to his nation. in the middle of it the translator breaks down in tears. when she can recover herself a little bit, she says, "excuse me" to her audience who is listening. and that's one side of this war. on the other side you have russian kids who, again, like us did not grow up in the shadow of the cold war, do not see things as black and white between russia and the west, who are connected to the west in a way nano other russian generation has ever been and they're wondering why they're there. we are seeing these text messages back to their mothers. we are seeing -- >> they're protesting. >> we're seeing -- when i first

started seeing ukrainians standing in front of tanks, i thought, oh, god, don't do that, they're going to shoot you and the russians tried to politely tried to get them out of the way because their heart, as jay said, their heart is not in this battle. russian hearts not in this battle. even the oligarchs are saying, what is going on? vladimir putin is alone. it is hard to fight a war against a country as stubborn and determined as ukraine when you are afraid to sit within 20 feet of even your top ministers. >> joe, we know that soldiers follow their orders, and in the next several days we are going to see a level of anguish and a level of moral difficulty, not just in ukraine but for the whole world as we watch a country that's now going to be subject to all the power that russia amassed on the borders. i mean the convoy is just part

of this force. the russians hope to be able to avoid crushing the city of kyiv. their battle plan always was to surround it. they were waiting for the europeans basically to give up, for zelenskyy to flee the country and they've stood firm. so the russians are having to change their plans, but don't imagine they don't still have the power to crush ukraine. i don't think that putin is ready to accept failure, which means that much more carnage is ahead. for all of us as we watch this, you know, outside invader try to squeeze the life out of freedom-loving people, speaking of zelenskyy this morning, it is going to be a terrible moment for all of us because we are all going to think, the west is going to think, we need to help these people, how do we help them without risking world war iii. >> right. >> that's what the next week is going to feel like. >> and that's the frustration a lot of people feel, why can't we

do something, why can't nato do something. there are obvious clear diplomatic strategic reasons why we can't. it would perhaps set off a world war, helene, but at the same time there are different ways to help. is there any word from defense officials, from pentagon officials as to what it is going to take for something significant to get into the hands of the ukrainian military, the ukrainian people to really help them. >> that's the question we ask every day. >> i know. >> the answers are very careful and they're careful because they don't want to forecast their hand. >> uh-huh. >> but you can read a lot into what -- i had a conversation the other day with a senior official, and you are sort of left to read a lot in what they say and what they don't say. he kept saying, you know, everything is on the table outside of, you know, physical

combat. >> but what's the time frame? >> but you can read that. >> mika asks me every day, when are they going to get the stuff over there? >> the stuff is getting over there. >> is it? >> absolutely. the 350 million the biden administration announced on saturday night, it is already coming through. it is coming through via lviv, it is coming through over the polish border, and the arms and ammo and ammunition and all of this stuff is flowing through right now. the russians, surprisingly still have not gone after these convoys of weaponry. so that's another question we should ask, you know, what is going on there. so there are things -- and there's still a lot outside of sending troops over the border that the west and nato can do. they can launch some sort of -- they can do cyberattacks. they can go after any number of russian targets that are short

of actually sending troops over the border. it just becomes a question of presidential will and how much you think you can continue to isolate putin. because right now vladimir putin has done a lot of nato's job for the alliance. he has unified the nato alliance. he has -- because he went in the way he did, you don't have germany talking about, oh, maybe this is not so bad, we should -- blah, blah. stopping the nord stream pipeline right off the bat was a strong signal. he has done a lot of nato's job for it, but now sort of the rubber is going to hit the road and you will have to ask the question of these political leaders how far are they willing to go. they think that the western response so far to putin has been far more than anybody thought, far stronger than president biden may have been expecting. so he -- you know, some of the battle has been done for him. you don't see him out there

begging nato to, you know, remain united. he is not having a question of certain nato countries peeling off at the moment. >> willie. >> jay, you write in your piece about the encouraging response from the american political class. you have a line, "for many years a lot of americans and others have played kissy face with authoritarians and semi authoritarians and aspiring authoritarians. maybe maligned liberal democracy is not so bad after all. save former president trump and former secretary of state mike pompeo who called putin a genius, which is a wrong analysis if you look at what he is doing here, what do you see as a response from republicans who, as you point out, played kissy face with putin and stepping up and saying, no, we're on the side of zelenskyy.

>> i think pompeo is solid on this issue. trump, it depends on which way the wind is blowing. but i think some of the old juices are stirring and people are remembering who they are, what the united states are supposed to stand for, what democrats with a small "d" are supposed to stand for. so putin is a unifier in a way. i have been told that putin has been more than any ukrainian to forge a ukrainian identity, consciousness and spirit. pout inis a very bad actor and he has become absolutely indefensible, at least for the moment. of course, people back slide. i cite the example of mateo salvini, a national populist leader, very much a putinist. he wore a putin shirt in the square. his party signed a friendship and cooperation agreement with

putin, so on and so forth. a big putinist in europe. the other day he had himself bringing a bouquet of flowers to rome. i doubt it is sincere but they have to fake it for a while. i think they've been shamed. >> jade nordlinger, thank you for okay. helene cooper, thank you for your reporting. coming up, our next guest survived several days, quote, trapped in kharkiv's bloody bubble. jack cross by who is covering the war for "rolling stone" joins us for his reporting from inside ukraine. "morning joe" is back in a moment.for his reporting from i ukraine. "morning joe" is back in a moment. a moment

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children are in netherlands, in germany, in mansions, where are all of these mansions seized? i don't see that. i see that by family members, my team members, are saying that we are crying. what's wrong. this is what is happening, prime minister. >> well, thank you. thank you very much for your questions and thank you for getting here today. i'm glad that you have been able to get here. look, i just want to say that i'm acutely conscious that there is not enough that we can do to -- as the uk government to help in the way that you want. i've got to be honest about that. when you talk about the no-fly zone, as i said to volodymyr

zelenskyy i think a couple of times, unfortunately, the implication of that is that the uk would be engaged in shooting down russian planes, would be engaged in direct combat with russia. that's not something that we can do or that we've envisaged. i think the consequences of that would be truly very difficult to control. >> you know, that very emotional moment in poland moments ago. this is what is so hard for people to watch, what is happening in ukraine, but i felt boris johnson actually did quite well in answering that question. shooting down a russian aircraft triggers world war iii. vladimir putin, more so than any other russian leader that i can

remember, is constantly bringing up the specter of nuclear war. has warned us repeatedly over the past month, if you get involved we are going to use nuclear weapons. people on state tv have been talking about reducing the west to ashes, reducing nato countries to ashes with nuclear weapons if we get involved in it. diplomats have been saying this isn't just vladimir putin popping off a few days ago. this is -- the russians have repeated this over the past several months. when nuclear annihilation is at stake, it doesn't matter whether they're a madman or not, you do need to take heed of those warning. >> you know, joe, we need to remember that franklin roosevelt stayed out of war against germany while the battle of britain was going on, where every night the bombs were falling on britain, our closest ally, and mr. churchill seemed

to stand alone. he found ways to help through other things that he did quietly, but it wasn't until december 7, 1941, that the united states joined the war. we will face a period like that in which we watch this dear ally and these people we have grown to love suffer terrible bombardment and find ways, as franklin roosevelt did, to help them without getting into a war that as you say could be world war iii. >> what we saw, again, was british prime minister boris johnson being passionately questioned about ukrainian anti-corruption advocate over the issue of a no-fly zone. johnson went on to pledge continued efforts to sanction the russians and provide additional support to ukraine. we have a member of the ukrainian parliament with us here onset. we will speak with

oleksandra ustanova. we appreciate you coming in. first joining us, jazz crosby covering the war for "rolling stone" live from the city of dnipro in ukraine. you described in a piece for "rolling stone," "trapped in kharkiv's bloody bubble." it seems to me that the guests at my hotel have spent more time in the underground car park than they have in the plush rooms before. we spend the night in the garage sleeping on disintegrating blocks of padded insulation that is, thankfully, not fiberglass. at around 2:00 a.m. i give up and go sleep on a couch cushion on the floor in the lobby behind a row and well away from the windows. i toss and turn to smooth jazz

until somewhere past 5:00 a.m. when i am asleep i wake up at 7:00 on sunday to one of the hotel security guys nudging my cushion with his bood. he tells me to go back down to the garage and mimes shooting a gun. this is the reality that you've seen. tell us more about what you have seen on the ground, jack. >> you know, i think it is important to point out first and foremost that my experiences in kharkiv over the past four or five days were harrowing. they were something that is going to stick with me for the restful my life, and yet they are a drop in the bucket compared to what the average ukrainian citizen in that city is experiencing right now. i was staying as that piece very clearly notes that five star hotel with a bunch of other western media. we had security out front. we had staff preparing our meals, cleaning rooms when we were able to go up to them, and,

you know, that is miles away from the reality that people in these cities are living through right now. so i think it is important to immediately acknowledge, both in my reporting and in interviews like i was dealing with. i am in a safe hotel in ukraine, three hours away from this as buildings around that hotel and residential neighborhoods i have been through are obliterated right now by indiscriminating shelling. >> tell us what you saw and the resistance of the ukrainian people. >> we woke up saturday morning --excuse me, sunday morning. there was a small russian incursion penetrated the city

center that day, this is a day long lockdown which we were able to leave. there were some hours of calm but yesterday morning, monday morning, bombardment on the outside of the city where i was drastically escalated which is about the point where i left but as we are seeing now, that got worse this morning. this morning estimated of, a government building that i was staying in destroyed and most crucially we have seen multi-launch rockets hitting residential areas that i have visited in the north eastern parts of the city right along the front lines. these are the realities of modern mechanized war. these are damaging to the

country like russia and united states and around the world for decades. we are seeing it in ukraine now and we may see it some where else again. i see the point of my work is just trying to identify these situations for what they are and giving more context to people who never experienced them as to what they are like on the ground. >> jack ross, thank you very much, we turn now to ukrainian member of parliament, alexandra, you are here shedding the light on this and you are calling for more sanctions. >> yes, ma'am, anybody in the world understands that's what basically ukraine is stand for. putin manages to take us is

going to mean the end of democracy, that means tyranny wins. we can keep talking about the democracy that won in the 20th century but this is the loss of the democracy. ukraine is the last battle for this. we have to admit basically with the united states and the western war have declared fighting for democracy. this is what ukrainians are doing at the moment. we do call for more sanctions because unfortunately so far it is been working for the russian economy but it is not enough. to be honest everybody was asking to switch off s.w.i.f.t. for russia. it was only a certain amount of things that's switched off. the loophole of the russian economy to use and russian bank to use it, they will.

the russian stock market was positive. that means they expected worse. it was not enough. we have to push them harder. we also have to go after their money because everybody keeps talking about personal sanctions but just for everybody, personal sanctions mean freezing their accounts, it does in and out mean seize their accounts or getting them out of the united states with their luxury mansions and their yachts with their kids going to expensive schools here. >> you said putin is going to make kyiv the next aleppo. tell us about the ukrainian people that stayed and chose to fight, what's driving them? >> they want to survive. they are fighting for their freedom. ukrainians have proofs because nobody actually believe -- the

first 48 hours what the world was watching. there was no support, we had a few statements from different government but there were no actual support. right now everyone understood. the people would go ahead, a hundred thousand people signed up for the army just to go and protect, we can't accept more people to fight on the streets because we ran out of guns, we don't have helmets and bullet proof vests. we have rifles but right now the united states, u.k. they are sending us javelins so we can fight in the air and with tanks. but if you want to protect the civilian population and putin is targeting the civilian population so now we panic and run, we need to protect our sky, that's why we need a no-fly

zone. putin is a bully. that's what he's been doing here in the world. my only question here to the community and the international community would be what is the red line for him when you actually step in? how many children have to die? we have already 20 children died and 300 civilians shot to death and shelled to death. we need to know the number after which the international communities are going to step in and protect our kids? and everybody is afraid of putin but he's been promising us not to go into war and he did. we were a mutual country 2014 and he invited ukraine. we did not provoke him a week ago, he still invaded. if he wants to invade and goes to war to the united states and nato, he'll do that.

he's a crazy psycho and he's the number one terrorist in the world. now matter how the treaty works or whatever he says and promises. >> the number in syria was 500,000 and the world community did not stepped in and vladimir putin targeted hospitals in syria. you raised a good question about how much more is he going to be allowed to do and how much more hospitals is vladimir putin going to target and how many more children is vladimir putin going to be able to kill? >> sanctions is as good start but assets need to be seized. i wonder about energy. i wonder about gas and energy. i wonder if europe and america is willing to take that next step and actually hit russia

where it will hurt them the most economically. >> that's the question, we as ukrainians keep asking because the sanctions were declared. we realize that basically there are a lot of exceptions. i was asking them same question, i understand your gas prices will go up. does it worth that many lives in ukraine? we have to be honest, everybody is playing politics. i am a politics in my country but i am a representative of my country. they'll be standing there and fighting for our country ander our lives. we need to know the truth, how long do we have to stand this. >> are americans and europeans willing to pay higher gas prices

to save ukrainian lives. boris johnson and the rest of the leaders go out and if mr. biden goes out and says we have a choice on the table, oil prices go up or we have to protect ukrainians right now, we have to save these people. looking at hundreds of thousands of people from the streets right now, who actually is the government to change their decisions? remember sanctions were pretty soft in the first 48 hours. it was people who went to the streets to push the government for stronger sanctions to make tough decisions. i think the people would be willing to pay extra fuel, probably 20 or 30 cents or even a dollar. but just to stop the killing of children in my country. i think politicians have to some point stop playing politics and start talking to people and asking them because again you

have been mentioning about syria, i can give you another example, in 1920. u.n. and other 35 countries did protect that. i can give you a lot of examples like that. and to be honest we have been promised, we had a treaty signed. we have been promised that if russian soldiers step on our land, we'll have protection. we gave up our weapons, what do we have now? i understand the concerns of a war. putin will do that any way and you have to do first in your response. >> willie geist has a question for you. >> just to be clear you want the united states to step in, what do you mean specifically, we heard from boris johnson saying there will be no fly-zone echoed

by the pentagon here in the united states. the russian economy is collapsing in the short term as we say. are you calling for american troops inside ukraine? >> i am calling for a no-fly zone. i will keep calling it just like the rest of ukrainian. this is our only hope to protect our population. i want to explain that we are in the 21st century. no fly zone does not mean shooting the planes. protect our population, to protect children from this plane to be use to shoot missiles at our kindergartens and child hospitals. otherwise, there is no way to protect the civilians. we are willing to fight on the ground and we have already proved that.

this is manipulmanipulative. this needs to be done otherwise, hundreds of thousands of people are in danger. >> ukrainian member parliament, thank you so much. >> thank you. >> our prayers are with you and with ukraine. in a few minutes we'll be joined by former president of ukraine, poroshenko. we want to reset for the top of the hour. the president of ukraine addressed the european parliament a day after siding a a request to join the eu. >> our people are very much motivated. we are fighting for our rights, for our freedom and for and our life. and now we are fighting for

survival and this is -- we want to be equal members of europe. i believe that will today we are showing everybody that's what we are. your lenience is going to be much stronger with us for sure. ukraine is going to be lonely, we have proven the stretch and at a minimum, we are exactly the same, so if you don't prove you are with us, do prove that you will not let us go and then

light will win over darkness, glory to you ukraine. >> europe rallies together, richard haas has this situation here. it would be a wonderful irony if vladimir putin who has done so much to weak democracy helped bring about its revival in the u.s. and beyond by reminding so many totallyism. switzerland made a break with its long standing neutrality yesterday. the country announced it will adopt the same sanctions the european union imposed o russia. in finland, lawmakers will debate how to handle a petition calling for a vote on nato

membership. the government announced yesterday it will send weapons and ammunitions to ukraine. >> emanuel macron reiterated western demands to halt an attack during a phone call with president putin. macron also spoke to ukraine's president several times to keep him informed of this conversation with putin. joining us now here in washington, members of the foreign relation committee, senator chris coon and heidi and julia and jonathan lemire and

katy kay is all with us. >> engaging in a no fly-zone to be active to go after russia's energy supplies and seize assets and to do more. >> first, we need to do more to make sure that putin fails, this is the biggest strategic mistake he ever made. we have to be clear of a what a no fly zone would be. that would mean shooting down manes. >> how do you explain your constituent faith. i know i am getting flooded with texts. people are seeing russian convoys on the road and they are used to-they're used to american jets scrambling and reducing them toll ashes in about five minutes.

explain why it is not just that simple. >> it is not that simple partly because ukrainians is not a member of nato. we are doing everything we can along the other line of effort that mr. zelensky is doing. >> sanctioning the oligarchs. provide arms and ammunition and supplies. >> the black country are sending midget fighters into ukraine. for us, to confront, jet fighters in combat would beyond anything we have done in decades. >> president biden has pulled together the west in a remarkable show of force as you just said. even the swiss and the sweeds who are neutral are taking sides

in this fight by closing their aerospace and imposing export controls. i think there is more we can do. but the swiftness and the severity have already imposed. >> willie is in new york and has questions for you. >> vladimir putin is expected by most military. analysis will keep going and things will get worse in here that we may see bloodshed in the capitol city. the images we see is so inspiring and could get uglier as the days move forward. will that change the calculus of the president of the united states of how much more the united states should be doing to intervene here? >> president biden is clear eye of how aggressive putin is and how brutal russian military tactics are. you can go back and look at what they did in ukraine in 1932 or

1933, when they starved millions to death. this will get ugly, that's why president biden proactively share critical intelligence the last few weeks alarming the whole world making it clear by sounding the alarm that there is a door in europe. i think this will be exceptionally difficult. the ukrainian people have shown real courage. it is inspiring the entire world and we are going to see sharp, strong force full action to make it hurt for putin and putin's close circles, the oligarchs. >> julia, i don't remember people's tweets. it is sort of the most russian

sentiment i have heard. tomorrow will be worse. >> why? >> now do you see why? >> that's what we have been hearing. where are we right now? where are we with vladimir putin? when you hear people say we need no-fly zone and we need to put nato boots on the ground. what are your thoughts how vladimir putin may respond to that? >> i think we are at the beginning of this and to the senator's point, we'll see something like things we have seen in syria and we have seen russia using cluster bombs on civilian areas. we have seen him used vacuum bombs and this is day six.

they plan to have it all wrap up and done in a couple of days. >> let me ask you about this calculation. you said this is during the trump era that we actually over hyped putin's brilliance, he was miscalculated. russia is getting slaughtered by ukraine. >> and in the field. you are going to do this next. we have people close to you that tells you you are going to do this next. far from donald trump, donald trump's assessment that this man is brilliant or mike pompeo talking about how gift he is. he looks, one of the most clueless people on the

international stage. yes, he has a lot of clear weapons and it is unbaffled. >> that's why he's waiving the nuclear baseball bat on day 3. i understand why ukrainians are pleading for no-fly zone. people are getting slaughtered. it is the beginning and not the end and they know it. i understand that desperation but i think the u.s., we have to understand what a no-fly zone is. it is not an invisible shield. that's a declaration for against russia for enough threats he's threaten us. i don't think he's past using. >> i totally agree with you. >> thank you, i am willing to engage militarily for obvious reasons, not wanting to spark world war iii. what about efforts to turn the russian population against putin

and that would be through the economy and shutting down the economy as immediately as possible and would that be through an energy embargo? >> we are in an economic cold war right now, the news is really tighten around russia. we are looking at the collapse of the russian economy, we are seeing breathtaking speed and action. monaco stepping up, the playground of oligarchs that's on board. the one country that's not on board is china. putin was in china for the olympics. china has putin's back right now. >> there is been huge efforts to go and reach out to the chinese to make sure they are part of the dialogue that their companies are on board.

if anyone could actually step up and try and dissuade vladimir putin from making anymore of these moves. i think china really is. china is the only place putin has to go now. they have been cut-off from the rest of the world. former president of ukraine petro poroshenko. >> what's your message to the whole world? >> laster because it was started, -- [ inaudible ]

>> a symbolic name. the name was freedom. 16 children were killed. women, civilians. this is just a demonstration of how crazy putin is. at the same time today is a great day, great day because today ukraine received acceptance of our -- ukrainian membership in the european union. we thanks president biden and macron and boris johnson, we thank all the leaders of european union and nato, --

>> working on getting his audio back. again, a former ukrainian president, petro poroshenko. they lost children and i think he said 16 children. >> yeah. >> and katy, he brought up something extraordinary important for the ukrainians. that's admission into the eu. there is a battle of course between east and west for the hearts and minds of the ukrainians. vladimir putin, he's given the west a massive exist over the past fiver or six years. >> this is in a very dark time for ukrainians, extraordinary moment that the eu is, i think the urge of accepting it now.

>> you saw members of the european parliament gave president zelensky a standing ovation after he made that an hour ago. >> that's going to take time. >> time is something that the citizens of kyiv and kharkiv don't haves very much at the moment. senator, i take your point of of no fly zone. that's how they are attacking these cities. they're already there. >> what tools are left in the tool box that may help protect the citizens o ukraine. is it anything that we can try to do to prevent that? >> we are sending in arms. they are getting into ukraine. >> president biden released

$350 million to allow fighter to keep fighting for ukraine. we'll send literally billions of dollars of food assistance and medical assistance. along with a lot of our allies, we are providing support with our counter measures, providing the ability to ukrainian fighters to communicate with each other. it may not seen as critical as a stinger missile. thankfully all profrding them with body armour. >> petro poroshenko, can you hear me, sir? >> oh, so we have a senator here with us who says the arms is

coming and food is coming. are they getting into ukraine and into the hands of soldiers? and what else do you need? >> we very much appreciate and we need more, we demonstrate that the ukrainian people and soldiers are stopping the russian troops. we are doing our best. today ukrainian people demonstrate that. they need to decrease theoremty tanks and definitely we need to find out the way how we, close

the aerospace of ukraine. this is extremely dangerous harassment -- >> i think we reached a decision of 700 million fighter jets, it would be based on poland and ukrainian pilots and making battles russia aggressor, mile piling for the ukrainian space. >> we definitely need to find out are there steps. i want to thank all the leaders including president biden, congress of the united states for their extremely efficient

sanctions which is already hitting russia. >> can you imagine, if you count them we have 120 hours and we are stopping russia. >> russia paid a hefty price. >> almost 6,000 russian soldiers were killed in ukraine. >> this is more than, this is just a demonstration that putin expected. invasion, he'll kept it kyiv. at the same time we now t we are now protecting freedom and democracy. we are protecting security in europe. >> he expects that ukrainian people will meet the russian soldiers with flowers. but we met them with a molotov

cocktail. >> with that situation, we have a strong movement among russian soldiers which can fight against. nobody in russia will know about the real figure of losses of russia. >> i think this is extremely important to see. i think that'll be a great idea. the next day the leaders of the

world will come to kyiv and will demonstrate solidarity with ukraine. and demonstrate to putin that has no chance to occupy. and you will see that he's war criminal. it is extremely important that the international call of justice launched, register the -- nobody should have any doubts that it is our responsibility. >> putin will be in prison for the crimes against humanity. he launched in ukraine healing ukraine and children and women, ukrainians. did bring in such a big tragedy to ukraine. we really want to tell you that

we'll fight not only for our sovereignty and integrity, we fight for freedom and what does it mean freedom for the world? it is absolutely by the viewers of your channel, msnbc and the american people. this is extremely important. >> the message that you all are fighting for european values have been received loudly and clearly by the leaders of europe and made a huge difference. i want to ask you if the russian troops that amass outside of kyiv, if they in fact take control over the government buildings there. to the ukrainians continue the resistance against them until they are driven out of your country completely. >> thank you very much.

i am at the center of kyiv, 800 spaces here is the governmental building and 500 meters here is the russians troops. >> the ukrainians have the weapons we transformed zz in switzerland where every ukrainians has their automatic rifle and we'll not surrender and that'll be hell. they are afraid to enter inside,

putin pretend that he'll fight with the ukrainian government. he'll meet the strong motion by the ukrainian people. all 100% ukrainian protecting our sovereignty. we are as united as never before. putin unite ukraine, putin unite europe and we stay solidarity with ukraine. today we receive the votes forgiving us the state of the candidate for their future membership but we need additional things. remember putin put forward an

ultimatum that ukraine should be refused of the europe/atlantic -- i should be the strongest choices of the european people. putin would be to give ukraine membership action plan for the nato membership. we do not accept or allow putin the do this. putin should be punish, i hope that'll happen at the end o f the day. >> mr. president, we have a united states senator seems to be agreeing with you. we want to thank you for being with us. god bless and our thoughts and prayers will be with you and the people of ukraine. >> your message has been heard, former president of ukraine

president poroshenko. when he was talking about war crimes being committed, we go back and think of what happens. it seems vladimir putin is preparing to continue and his attack on the cities and slaughtering children and women and defenseless ukrainians. he's already started using cluster bombs, i believe it is deeply frustrated that his troops mostly are of many of those russian soldiers have said we didn't know we have been ordered ukraine. the ukrainians are fighting bravely than he expected. i frankly anticipate that putin is getting more brutal. that can mean massive casualties for which he should be

prosecuted. >> julia, we heard the former president's plea that we get the message for the russian people because they're not hearing the truth. i am not so sure that's the case. what are the russian people hearing right now because keir simmons says when he goes out the street, he's struck. >> where is he if. >> moscow. >> moscow has always been ironically the city where putin lives and which he rules is the most antiputin city in russia. it is a city that protests against him. i spent the last couple of months watching kremlin tv and the provinces and rural area, they're hearing there is no russian casualties.

ukrainians are nazis and they are not a real government that zelensky is just a puppet. for example, i was watching a popular political talk show last night and they were saying that during the negotiations in belarus, zelensky kept running out to call biden because he's just a puppet. they're not getting and the people who live in moscow, the people are horrified. if you think americans are horrified, they are tripling more horrified. they have family and friends in ukraine, they love the visit ukraine. to them this is not just an unnecessary brutal war but it is a civil war. >> putin has said they're a brother nation and ironically he's mott wrong which is why a lot of russians are jonathan l

question for you. there is still one part left to play when it comes to sanctions. that's energy, oil and gas which would have an impact on american consumers and europeans and so on. are we at the point where these convoys approach the major cities of ukraine where that needs to be done? >> thank you the question, jonathan. i am looking forward to president biden's state of the union address tonight. the cost and the consequences of fighting for freedom and our values. we'll put on additional strong

sanctions. it will be effective if they continue to be done in coordination with our european allies. >> sanctions on the energy sector will hurt putin and they would also hurt western europe significantly. don't under estimate the impact of short term and long-term and the export controls that our department of commerce managed to work out in partnerships like countries like south korea and japan. those semiconductor chips that are essential for everything, automobiles to jet fighters and what a huge impact these sanctions are already having on the russian economy. there are additional sanctions we should consider but the average americans should be clear it will have cost. >> heidi, what you want to add

after that and going after the oligarchs and how long will it take for them to feel the freeze? >> i think to your first point, the senators is right. the central bank sanctions that were put on are having an immediate effect in terms of the central bank's ability to manage the ruble crash. the export controls are along, so the extent that we can reach the ability of russia to not be able to develop, it is a industrial base moving forward. it is critical that these work in tandem and we have huge support from both of those actions. in terms of the energy sanctions. i think this is a fast moving situation. things this were unthinkable several days ago on the table

and done. >> this is happening a the breath taken speed. we have to bear in mind that europe is taking this harder. we do have to have them on board. we have to make sure their interests and ours are protected in this. absolutely to the extent that we can isolate and close off any ability of russia to develop economically is critical, going after the oligarchs? i think they are hosts. the travel bans and seizing of assets. anyone knows russia, they are master full of hiding their assets. we have our agreement with th

g-7. we'll have a conservative effort going after those assets and figuring out who owns them and figure out where they are and seize them. >> we had a diplomat who has dealt with russia a good bit. you are on the right path but you need to go after your spouses, their fiances and the underline their girlfriends. >> i got to say. we heard erin burnett talking about these oligarchs. they love their jets and women. >> they have the women. too wait, a second, is that what a oligarch is? >> the diplomat says yes, that's what these oligarchs think

about. >> ex plane that going after the spouses and going after the fiances and the girlfriends with sanctions sending them back to moscow and not allowing them to remain in london. not allowing them to remain in dubai. >> you just outlined the case brilliantly. >> the wonderful thing about being the child or mistress of an oligarch. >> the rottenburg brothers, they met at a judo club, they became billionaire in first decade of putin's ruling. a week before they were sanctioned?

2014, suddenly their son became billionaires and their father is very poor. >> the proers who are friends with putin are poor. the kids are now the ones holding all these assets. the u.s. did not have the legal authority to do this before until last year. now i think this is the first time we have gone after some of the adult children. i think going after minors would be complicated. i know the u.k. is exploring using on wealth orders and legal tactics to for example people have to declare the final beneficiary of an lfc. >> if you have a 25-year-old russian roll around in london with a ton of money and no jobs. >> in the you can explain for viewers just how much oligarchs

have establish a financial in london? >> there is a reason it is called london grad and over the seres even members of boris johnson's government says too much dirty money in london. they have not done much to stop it. last week i was hearing from people kind of mixing in those circles saying yeah, if we seize the asset of russia oligarchs. we literally took their houses away from them. >> then what about the arabs? or latin america? >> they are conscious of the economic effect that this would have and boris johnson is very conscious. if you stop making london a safe haven. >> some of them are political

donors. >> joining us from a major supply depot. tom yamas, what can you tell us? >> reporter: good morning guys, we have been talking about the civilians effort to take on the russians here in ukraine. >> these are supplies coming out the ukrainians, they are filling who he is white bags you see with water and winter clothes and any kinds of baby supplies. we see those mothers to the border trying to get out of the country there. now families filled with refugees. it is incredible the ukraine efforts not only making those molotov cocktails and fighting with whatever weapons they have but spending 24 hours a day here. >> they get onto trucks and the trucks going into those areas.

they know they're family. lviv is transformed to a place of humanitarian aid. you see team lined up and everybody here as a good attitude about this. you don't see people getting into fights. everyone is united to keep it going and even though people all around the world in the united states are talking a lot about ukraine, ukraine themselves are taking their destiny in their own hands. these people are convinced they're going to beat the russians. we have not seen russian tanks yet in this area. >> reporting for us in western

ukraine. >> let's take a pause for a second. >> tom said something extraordinary. >> we have elevated once in churchill through the years because of what happened in 1940s. in britain when they face certain defeat, public opinion polls show only 3% of britts thought there was any chance the germans can win that war. so much of that had to do with leadership. i am struck by what tom just said, ukrainians are certain against all odds and they're going to end up defeating the ugs ares. >> that's extraordinary important when you have young soldiers and children who are not sure they they are there. >> we see incredible -- president, there

is going to be hard days ahead. >> the ukrainian people understand what it means to stand up and fight, they know what they are fighting for and they know where and why they are fighting. russians are sending troops in who are under prepared. >> who'll fight fearlessly for the freedom of their country. the rest of us need to back them up and support them. in tonight's state of the union address, you will see an inspiring call from president biden to if world to rally around the cause of ukraine. >> heidi, final thought? >> where does this go next? >> we have seen actions, we have seen reactions but what is putin's steks nep? you know he has a lot more to use whether it is cyber or whatever the reaction is. are we prepared to see that wha that next to business, not jst

what's on the ground in ukraine even though it is horrified and where does he go next? >> i want to agree with the senators that the ukrainians will always win but good does not always triumph over evil. >> it can be astronomical. i am so worried for what comes next. >> still ahead on "morning joe," our next guest lives in kyiv, but she fought with her family to lviv on saturday. she's a mother of two, ages 13 and 2. she's 37 weeks pregnant with her third child. her story is next as she joins us live. >> plus, our chef andres will be

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joining us now is an editor chief, she lives in kyiv but fled a few days ago. where are your kids and what are your plans? >> well, at the moment we just have a raid alarm. everybody went to the shelter, they're inside, i am staying outside. our plans is to go germany. we don't know what will happen next. it is relative live peaceful

here except for these alarms. i can't even imagine being away from my country at this time. yeah. >> and at the same time, i am sure you can't imagine you can't be away from your children. i understand you are pregnant as well as you are trying to figure out what to do? >> for me personally it was a very big thing to lever kyiv because i never thought i would run away from a battle peeld field but when you have kids in your hands, you have the think about them. it is been surreal covering events of the city of bombs. tsa we speak right now a place

that's relatively peaceful. i have just seen this photo from syria from donbas which is so far away now and it is coming to my city. i am so angry at this insane, country for his insane ideas. i pray for our army that we will fight back and withstand this act of aggression and we will be victorious. >> this is so hard for you, as a mother, a journalist as well. you must know you're going to drop your kids in poland and you could be trying to go back to kyiv where there is a huge convoy of russian military vehicles outside. do you really think it's going to be possible for you to get back into the capital city? >> we're going back to lviv. i don't think it would be good to go to kyiv right now. the city -- we know most of the efforts of the russians are

directed at capturing the city, so we'll be staying in lviv. but a lot of my colleagues are courageously covering the situation from on the ground in kyiv right now. we know that vladimir putin is trying to raise the stakes before the next round of talks with ukraine that are set to happen tomorrow, so all of this bombing is an attempt just to pressure ukraine to capitulate to his insane demands, demands to basically abandon our sovereignty in order to become an appendage of russia, something will never do. >> along with the reporters staying to cover fight, there are men returning to fight and women, women doctors, women nurses, and women taking up arms. tell us about the ukrainian women and what is driving them to stay in ukraine and fight the russians. >> reporter: i think just -- first, e motionly, i guess, it's

anger, anger that somebody could just invade our country and do this to us. i also think a sense of unity, a sense of willingness to die for your freedom. yeah. it is. you know, i think that ukraine is finally understood it is better to die than to live on your knees, and this is what we are going to -- this is what we're doing basically now. putin tells us that we don't exist. putin tells us that we don't have a right to be -- to have an independent government. he says our culture doesn't exist, our language doesn't exist. well, we disagree. we are a nation. we are an independent, proud nation. and we know -- we want to live our own life, not just be an appendage of this nuclear superpower that just wants to take over the world. >> the anger you describe so profoundly, do you think, though, it will be able to

ultimately stand up to putin's hand? he has a convoy miles long headed into kyiv. what happens when they finally get to the center of the city? do ukrainians keep fighting if there is even a puppet government? >> reporter: well, you know, our government has distributed instructions on how to stop tanks, what we should do if we see a tank convoy going through our city. they're distributing instructions on creating molotov cocktails. can you imagine that eight years ago ukrainians were trying to stop the violence of their own government with molotov cocktails and now our government the giving us instructions on how to fight the russian invaders, instructions on how to make molotov cocktails. so, you know, i think -- i'm sure that ukraine will win. the question is how many civilian victims there has to be, how much destruction there has to be before the west finally understands that you

can't stand aside, that it's not really only a russian-ukraine conflict, that vladimir putin has declared a war against civilization itself. >> so, can you please stay in touch with us on your progress, not just reaching your children, but covering this. we'd like to have you back. thank you so much for your powerful words this morning. she is editor in chief of an independent ukrainian news outlet, the mother of two young children, a third on the way, now a refugee in her own country. we turn now to the effort to feed the refugees. world central kitchen, a nonprofit organization that travels the world to feed people in need, and they are on the scene at the ukraine-poland border. its founder, chef jose andres, is there pleading for an end to the invasion and an end to authoritarian rule. and he joins us now.

tell us about the effort to feed the refugees. how are you doing? do you have enough food? >> yes, listen, food so far is not the problem. we began feeding on the side of poland on the different entries in poland. i can tell you one thing, the people of poland are unbelievable, very much a great entry, thousands of polish people and ukrainians providing relief to every single man, woman, children leaving ukraine. right now i'm speaking to you on the ukrainian side. i'm right now in one of the entries of cordova. we are trying to go to as ukrainian call it laf, and we are bringing food there.

we have flour to make sure they can keep producing bread and feeding people. we're going to try not only to be helping on the polish side, this morning we are also trying to see how we can be supporting the many stations that out of nothing they are able to do what anybody should do in these moments, put themselves and the service to help. i am in awe of what i see. >> you're also going to natural disasters. you released a video earlier talking very movingly about the war in ukraine and what touched you in particular about this struggle and this disaster that you're going to. tell us what it is that has moved you about what you're seeing in ukraine. >> the first time i came here and i'm in the border town, and

as i was getting out to the entrance to try to understand what was going on and trying to see how we could be helping, i began seeing many nationalities from different countries. i saw a lot of nationalities coming from different countries. africa, i know, some issues about how these people were being treated. i got reports that those people told me they were being treated with respect, maybe something happens. but i'm doing that researching how the polish border was taking care of those individuals, i saw a whole bunch of men, one of them american. i was asking him for his name. that's everybody leaving ukraine, those men were going back to ukraine. they want to defend their nation. i'm here right now and i keep seeing people that leave.

i do see very often sometimes. and they drive their family to the border, give each other a big hug, then they go back to join the defense forces. this breaks the heart of anybody, families separated, not sure when they'll see their loved ones. because the war is real. the war is at the door of europe. >> chef jose andres, thank you very much for everything that you're doing for the refugees, and thank you for being on this morning. >> we greatly appreciate it. jonathan, joe biden addresses the nation tonight, the ultimate bully pulpit as he delivers the state of the union address. what have you heard? what's he going to talk about? how much is he going to focus on ukraine? >> first of all, chef andres, that's an actual hero right there. >> yes. >> this will be the biggest

stage that president biden commands likely this year. it comes, of course, at a confluence of significant events. the inflation crisis here in united states, good news looks like on the pandemic, trying to get parts of his domestic agenda through with the midterms rapidly approaching. of course it's all overshadowed by the situation in ukraine. white house aides say that will be a central theme of his speech tonight, calling for allies to stay united and also rallying the american people to say why this matters, that of course there may be a little pinch at the gas pump, there may be impact on americans' lives, but to say this is worth it, this is defending western values, this is defending democracy itself. >> all right. thank you, jonathan. catty, final thought? >> i hope julie is wrong and that the good people of ukraine will be wrong, but history shows we're in for a dark time and if they get under the foot of the russian government, this could be long and very hard.

>> it could be long and very hard. we probably l are going through a dark and difficult time. but i have the sense, mika, listening to the ukrainian people, they will get out on the other side of it a free people. and the isolation of russia and the world community continues. foreign minister sergey lavrov began speaking via video remote from moscow, speaking to the u.n. human rights council. members got up and walked out, turned their back on him and actually left the chamber at the u.n. that, of course, comes before the general assembly vote on condemning russia. we will see how china, how india, the united arab emirates, and how other country who is think they can stand on the sidelines while this world crisis unfolds across the world, we will see how they respond. >> and the world will be watching.