only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ it's 4:00 in new york on a day of major developments both here and abroad with joe biden set to deliver his first state of the union address to a joint session of congress in just a few hours from now, he will talk about challenges here at home as well as the biggest foreign policy crisis of his presidency. the war in europe. which appears to be entering a dangerous new phase as russian forces escalate their attacks on

ukrainian cities. over the last 24 hours, explosions have rocked the capital and ukraine's second largest city, kharkiv. a rocket strike that destroyed a building in the main square was just one of many attacks in the city. including strikes that hit a hospital in a residential neighborhood. the mayor of kharkiv says the city is surrounded by russian troops. at least five people were killed in the attack. that strike on the same spot as a world war ii massacre of ukrainian jews by the nazis. ukraine's foreign minister calling it evil and barbaric, this as satellite images appear to show a massive military convoy stretching 40 miles and heading straight towards kyiv. the pentagon says the push has stalled and that troops are

facing shortages of food and fuel and that the russians are looking to re-group before a major offensive on that city. kyiv is home to nearly 3 million people. the pentagon also adds they have indications that some russian troops weren't even told they would be in combat. the prospect of an escalation of a war is leading to a rapidly growing flow of refugees out of ukraine. and thousands packed into kyiv's train station hoping to get to western ukraine and many from central europe. at this critical moment with thousands displaced, the russians potentially on the verge of unleashing more devastation, ukrainians are reiterating their calls for help and their president, president zelenskyy, who remains in kyiv, tells cnn that for peace talks

for russia and ukraine to have any chance at all, moscow's attacks against them have to stop first. watch. >> first of all, everybody has to stop, stop fighting and to go to that point from where it beginning. began six days ago. i think there are principle things you can do it and that is very important moment. if you'll do these and if those side is ready, it means that they are ready for the peace. if they don't ready, it means that you're just, you know, just wasting time. >> and do you think you're wasting your time or do you think they're ready? >> we'll see. >> let's bring in two reporters on the ground in ukraine for us. live from lviv, cal perry and jack crosby reporting on the ground for rolling stone

magazine. also an msnbc contributor. cal perry, i start with you. tell me what's happening now and take me through the whole day. >> reporter: so, trying to think about how to present this to you and i've been talking to people now for a week and it seemed like the first couple of days i would speak to them and the war had reached their country. the war had reached ukraine and their lives were being impacted, but not really. today in talking to people, it seems like everyone's life is directly impacted. that the war has arrived for every single individual person in this country. the situation at the lviv train station is deteriorating because there's a human wave of misery and confusion and fear and of uncertainty of what to do next. you have people who are just trap nd this city and they can't go to the polish border because it's jammed up. and so they're just stuck here. and you have this growing sense of nationalism that president zelenskyy has done an

exceptional job. i was thinking about our conversation with yesterday and those pictures of putin at that long table and his advisers then president zelenskyy in a trench drinking coffee every morning with the troops. it is that that's driving this country forward. it is a key moment in the russian campaign to take out the ukrainian tv transmitter because the tvs have been knocked out here and we're not able to see what we have been, which is ukrainian propaganda about the war, but it's been the way zelenskyy has been communicating. he'll move to social media, but won't reach as many people. at the train station today, i was educated by a 12-year-old girl who spoke fluent english because she was educated in canada before she came back here. i was struck by what she had to say. here's her and her mother talks to us today. do you feel safe? >> not really. >> why not?

>> i don't know. it's scary. russia's just killing people for no reason. >> now we have to defend his country and we'll leave, stay in ukraine but him and you have the support our husband. >> i have tiktok and i just said some things about the war and just russian kids started saying that it's fake. no one is attacking no one and it's ukraine who started first. and yeah, i would just say that they should not believe the tv. >> i asked her if i should be scared being in this city and she said you should be scared being here because who's to say the russians won't come here and she's right. they were just going to invade the east and they were never going to move on kyiv and here they are and now i'm in a city that is 350 miles away from kyiv and it's a city under lockdown.

it's hard to move around the city now. people are abiding by the curfew. this is a city at war even though it is 350 miles from where the explosions are going off. >> you talked about being educated. every day, we're educated by the reporting you both do. i want to ask you, cal, if ukrainians understand what putin's trying to do. do they think he's trying to kill them? does he think he's trying to install a leader? what is their understanding of putin's objective? >> i think it's moved. i think the goal posts have moved for the people who live here. i think just before the war started, it was maybe he's going to try to assassinate zelenskyy, put in a puppet leader and make us like belarus, but we'll resist that. maybe he's going to take those breakaway regions in the east and make them part of russia. that's not okay, but we'll

continue our resistance there. now it is he's coming to kill us all. he's coming for our way of life. our homes. we may not be able to return to our homes. again, a lot of this is being dictated by president zelenskyy who has done a truly masterful job of an age old technique in war, which is if god is on their side, who else can be on theirs? we're fighting for what we believe in. fighting for our freedom, our homes, democracy and we're going to fight putin here so the world doesn't have to fight him there. that message is resognating all across europe and when he opens it up wider and applies for european union membership, he's take making a political point. when he opens up the borders and says anyone who wants to come an fight from any country, we'll get rid of visa requirements hand you a weapon.

somebody who i think really does understand that the world at this moment, at least push of the western world at this moment, stands behind him, though again, in a deconflicting way, the u.s. clearly does not want to face off with russia. so long way of answering your question. people here say they want a no fly zone. they want the americans to take out the convoy from the air. well, fire the first shot against russia is, you know, we're headed down a world war 3 path here. that's where people are here mentally because their lives are at stake and people are dying and men aren't able to leave the country. so you have a very understandable, visceral, emotional response happening. >> i think that their response to western leaders has been that world war 3 is underway. i want to show you a ukrainian journalist confronting boris johnson. >> where i was studying was bombed today. the downtown square.

you're talking aboutukrainian people, but the women and children are in fear because of missiles and ukrainian people are desperately asking to protect. we're asking for the no fly zone. seeing response to world war 3, but what is the alternative, mr. prime minister? to observe how our children are instead of planes are protecting nato from their missiles and bombs? what's the alternative for the no fly zone? we have planes here. we have air defense system in poland, romania. nato that has air defense could shield the rest of ukraine those these children, women, could come to the border. it's impossible not to cross the border. imagine crossing the border with a baby or two children. you're talking about more sanctions, but -- he's in

london. his children are not in the bombardments. his children are there in london. children in the netherlands. in germany. where all this seized. i don't see that. i see that my family members, my team members are crying -- this is what is happening. >> this is what is happening. that was daria confronting boris johnson and i understand u.s. foreign policy, i know it's less popular than it is now, but the reality on the ground doesn't seem to be landing well with the ukrainian people. tell me what the reality on the ground is for them, jack. >> so i think the ukrainian people, the key thing they want out of their politicians is

peace and stability and i have heard these pleas for a no fly zone repeated. i have heard these things because when people are experiencing violence, they're going to reach out for every solution, every possible thing that they can think of to make their immediate pain hurt and a friend of min wrote that politics is how we distribute pain. i think that that's exactly what's happening here. clearly, everyone viewing this issue from the big picture understands that nato setting up a no fly zone would be politically and militarily geopolitically disastrous for the state and the security of the entire world, but for the people on the ground in ukraine, they're not thinking like politicians. they're not thinking anything like that. they're thinking like people who are being shot and who are being bombed and who are being subjected to all of the savageries and violence that the modern world is capable of. so what you hear from them is a

plea for someone to change the material conditions that got us into this situation and to make sure that it doesn't happen again. >> politics is how we distribute pain. i wrote that down. i keep that write here. i want to read something you wrote, jack, about your reality and the reality that the small calculations and decisions you make. this is when you were still in kharkiv. you wrote we spent most of the day on sunday in the hotel lobby devising a new threat assessment method based on the duration of shelling outside. silence was relaxing. boots off, naps on the couch, perhaps a trip back up to the rooms on the upper floors for a shower or change of clothes. occasional faint shelling made your put your shoes back on. major shelling made you put body armor on hoping that by the time you finished discussing, the

shelling would stop. anything more than that meant a trip back to the patio furniture and insulation pads downstairs. tell me more. >> so i think it's important when i think back on this piece, i was trying to write about the material conditions that i was experiencing, which i've said before, my time in kharkiv over the past four days was a harrowing experience that is going to stick with me for the rest of my life. but when i look back on that and i compare that to the things that we have seen and we have watched other ukrainian citizens in this country experience, it doesn't compare. i was staying in a five star hotel with other members of the western press. i had the luxury of lying on a couch with my boots off when things weren't actively blowing up around me, right? there are people who in ukraine who do not have the choice of going back upstairs to take a shower in their nice, perfect water pressure room, things like that, that they're reality is down in these bunkers and if

it's not in these bunkers, it's waiting in long lines in areas outside that are exposed. the video you're showing now, those are areas in residential neighborhoods that i have been through. i have seen lines just a few hundred meters from where these strikes are going off outside of grocery stores in broad daylight at the time these strikes are happening. these are risks that the people in these areas are facing every single day and the choices that they have to make are completely different from the ones that i had to make as a journalist and you know, what i hope to show from that story is just even the tiniest bit of context to how disastrous the process of modern war is to every day life. if it's as bad as it was for me with money in my pocket and a job and a way out of there, it's

unimaginable for people whose homes this is being levelled upon. >> did you move for your own safety and security? >> yes. yes. on monday morning, the shelling escalated dramatically and myself and the majority of the journalists staying at that hotel decided it was time to extract from the city and we did so under fire. the building that you saw impacted by the cruise missile that you were playing earlier, that is about 200 yards from the hotel we were staying at so fortunately, we were not there at the time of that strike. >> jack, is it your sense and i think kier is going to join us in a moment, is it your sense that the broadcasting capabilities were taken out so people wouldn't see kharkiv's bloody bubble? and the rest of the ukrainians not seeing these atrocities of

war? >> i think it's a whole scale reshuffling. they realize limited strikes and quick strikes against kyiv are not going to topple the government in the way they hope and now they're escalating. they're moving to cut off communications networks. this entire time, i was able to write and file my stories. i had a data connection even in the bomb shelters and there was free access of information across the country. and for the most part in the first few days of the war, shelling was, i don't want to say limited and civilians were being injured, but it was not on the same level as what we're experiencing now. this is a wholesale across the country reimagining of the russian strategy. that means a vast amount of death will be brought down among the ukrainian people. >> let me bring in kier. is this your understanding of the russian adjustment if you will to their military strategy?

>> reporter: i think they are adjusting their military strategy. that happens in conflicts. there's a famous saying, just trying to remember, it goes something along the lines of all plans disappear at the moment of contact. i will say something else though, nicolle. i think that we will want to watch closely how it plays out because it turns out that while, for example, back in 2014, the russian campaign in crimea looked like a success, on closer observation as they moved large numbers of military, they actually found that they had real problems with commander control. there's nbc reporting today suggesting that president putin is lashing out, that he's furious that it's not going as well as he would have hoped. and i suspect one of the reasons why he might be furious is because the russians have known in fact that they have

organizational issues, supply issues with their military. they've known that for a long time and have never been able to fix it. i would just say one other thing. segueing from the conversation you were just having. getting ready today to hear president biden speak to congress. speak to america. speak to the world. meanwhile, here in russia, what we're seeing is president putin clamped down on people's ability to hear what's really happening in ukraine. so radio echo moscow has been taken off air. you can hear it online, but you can't hear it broadcasting. the russian wikipedia page says it's being threatened by the russian prosecutor because of its article invasion of ukraine 2022. >> kier, i want to ask you about something that a regular guest on our program has tweeted. a russian pharmacy chain sent out texts to its customers quote, putin stole our money now

he's stealing lives. there's a war in ukraine. wake up. the ruble's value might return, but our soldiers won't return from ukraine. in five days, 5500 russian soldiers died in ukraine. i sort of hesitated to ask both of you and cal about numbers of lives lost of the human toll because it seems unclear, but now it seems even within russia, this number's been thrown around. do you have any ability to confirm that figure? >> we don't, honestly. that's just being completely honest about it. we're in the fog of war. and inevitably, i say this with caution, but i suppose you could say understandably on the ukrainian side, they will want to make their successes as many as possible from their perspective. what we definitely know is that the russians have been desperate to try and hide any casualties

whatsoever or russian soldiers being captured. they admitted that was happening at all. i think all of this goes back to frankly what we're really seeing, which is fear in the russian government. fear of one man. that is president putin. you know, i think what we're seeing and it's quite astonishing, is that you and i have talked about putin over the years as this kind of cold eyed, calculating, tactical general. in fact, i think we're seeing a very different side, an aspect of president putin's leadership and we are questioned about his leadership, and then, and then, all around him continue to be this, there continues to be evidence of the people around him just kind of trying to sing the same song because they think their boss wants them to sing. just an example. medvedev, who as you know, took

over from putin. that he would be a liberal leader of russia finally. he has said today, he's chastised a french minister for for he says declaring economic war on russia and says don't forget in human history, economic wars quite often turn into real ones. so that's medvedev threatening a nato country. somebody who you know, a decade ago we would have thought was on the liberal side in russia. >> kier, really quickly, can you tell me if the protests in the streets of russian cities are ongoing, are growing, shrinking? getting under putin's skin? what is the latest? >> 6,700 people, protesters, arrested so far. we've talked about how it is difficult to protest here. another interesting point. there is a petition in russia against the war. it has more than a million signatures. >> wow. kier simons, cal perry, jack,

please, please stay safe and thank you so much for starting us off and being there and for your reporting. when we come back, our panel will join us as russia advances on the capital city of ukraine and president biden prepares to give a state of the union address perhaps like none other. we'll look at the stakes tonight and what we can expect to hear from him. later in the program, we'll speak again with the former adviser to president zelenskyy who continues to hunker down with his young family as his nation remains under brutal attack. all those stories and more when we continue after a quick break. stay with us. we continue after a quick break. stay with us with thirty grams o. those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks! (sighs wearily) here i'll take that! (excited yell) woo-hoo! ensure max protein. with thirty grams of protein, one gram of sugar, and nutrients to support immune health.

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joining our coverage, barry mccaffrey. now an msnbc military analyst. also, journalist and contributor, katty kay and jim hines. congressman, i'm coming to you. what is your latest understanding of what we've been discussing and reporting. the seeming indication that the russian tactics will only become more brutal and aggressive? >> well, we're seeing that already, nicolle, and you know, the military people will tell you as we heard in a briefing yesterday that you know, what the ukrainians have done has been unexpected, wonderful, amazing, but you can defy military gravity for only so long. putin has such category cal

advantages including more brutal and sadly, the next couple of weeks are not likely to be happy for anybody watching. the good news is, and i can say that representing a very polarized institution, i have never seen the degree of unity. this is a broken place after january 6th, but republicans and democrats whose relationships were badly damaged are coming together to say how can we do more. >> i hear that all the time. in the halls of this building. what is the answer to that question? how can we do more? >> i was with the intelligence committee just this afternoon in which we were talking about precisely that in ways that i can't talk about on television, but every meeting in this building is about being consistent with the president's plan and the president has been very clear, which is we are going to make this excruciatingly painful as i think we already have, we being the united states and our european allies, short of going to war. this is why we need to be

careful and using things. we understand why ukrainian journalists feel the way they do, but getting into a shooting war between nato and russia does not make the situation better and a no fly zone, be very clear and talk to your military consultants, means that we are attacking russian military assets on russian soil. we just need to stay the course of making it clear to putin that he stands completely alone and isolated and that there is no victory for him here. >> there are reports that innocent civilians are among the dead as they always are in any war. horrific news. is there a scenario that changes which you just articulated, congressman? >> well, one of the interesting questions and i imagine putin is probably shocked by the fact that russian teams will no longer be playing in the world cup, that british petroleum the withdrawing. that the swiss of all people

after centuries of neutrality are going up against the russian oligarchs. if he sees no out, if he feels painted into a corner, if there's no way for him to emerge in this disaster he has created with some semblance of a saving of face, it could get a lot worse. much, much uglier for civilians on the ground. for the world as a whole as he rattles his nuclear saber. so as painful as it is to think about this, we need to be thinking about what a way is for him to withdraw as soon as possible in a way that he can explain to himself and to his own people because that's what needs to happen. >> have you been surprised, i know there's been a lot of coverage of how right intelligence agencies in this country have been about putin. has zelenskyy's performance and ability to unite his country and turn them into citizen soldiers even ones that aren't in the

military, have you been surprised by that? >> i have been. what a remarkable study in courage president zelenskyy has been and there's no doubt in my mind and i don't think there's any doubt in the minds of people who study this stuff that his courage, his leadership, has made all of the difference here. you wouldn't draw too close an analogy with afghanistan because they're two radically different countries, but here, a leader was right out the door and zelenskyy is demonstrating what leadership can mean against some of the most brutal odds one might imagine. >> it is an incredible thing to watch. it's been a privilege speaking to folks hunkered down in their homes bracing for a miracle. what would you say to them? >> i caught that bit you show of the ukrainian journalist talking to boris johnson. again, if you have a heart and a soul, they both break for the plight of the ukrainian people,

but i hope they see and understand that the world stands against putin and when i say the world, i mean the world. things are happening out there that you never imagined. it might be the germans arming the ukrainians. it was a week ago they said they wouldn't do that. the swiss giving up their ancient neutrality. i would hope the ukrainians take comfort in the fact that the entire world is standing against putin right now. >> it's always great to talk to you, but especially on a day like today. thank you so much for spending some time with us. >> thank you. >> let me bring in general mccaffrey and katty. general, what are we to make of russia's military moves in ukraine? >> well, i think one thing you look at the, an armored division plus in a movement to contact to attack kyiv and it's jammed up like a nfl parking lot. it's the most shocking display of incompetence on the part of

the russian army. i'm enormously surprised. they can't defend themselves. they're not camouflaged. they can't get off the roads they're stuck on because of marshy ground. it's an amazing sight. let me turn to the bad news though. they apparently are going in now for a combined arms attack to seize a city of 3 million people. in doing so, i might add, tank mechanized forces are extremely useful in that fight, but only when accompanied by large numbers of dismounted infantry who incur terrific casualties. so all of the advantages will go to the ukrainian defense forces, the armed civilians and the military. it could go on for months and be the bloodiest fight we've seen since 1945. if that happens, the optics o on

the globe will be astonishing and the collateral damage to the infrastructure of kyiv will be enormous and the loss of civilian life will be devastating. so putin's got a real problem. he's got an incompetent military going on. they're going to be firing -- not 25 or 100. so he's on the verge on further sticking himself into a perric victory in ukraine. >> general, what is the sort of nuanced analysis of the ukrainian soldier? i mean, i understand the fuel shortages and those seem like failures in planning, but there also seems to, and have been reports, that those soldiers that we've been covering for weeks and weeks lined up on the border.

first 30,000, then up to 130,000 as putin said he didn't plan to invade, that they didn't expect to be engaged in combat inside ukraine. what impact does that have on that fighting force? >> well, it may well be considerable. obviously the ukrainians and the russians are very close. i spent time in moscow and kyiv. they live on both sides of the border. they intermarry. it's a painful thing i would assume for the russian soldiers to find out they're attacking a brother slavic nation. at the same time, some of our commentary has been saying they're all -- they're not. they tend to be contract soldiers, maybe 20% contract. conscripts. i thought they would be better trained. but on almost every level, the general staff that planned the operation down to reconnaissance

units trying to get into kyiv, they don't look very good. part of it may well be a lack of morale. i don't believe some of the stories coming out. they said one of the parent troop commanders trying to seize the airport thought he was on a training exercise, didn't know he was in ukraine. i don't believe that. by the way, i'd be skeptical of that 5500 dead russians, too. that would imply 35,000 casualties. there hadn't been that level of ground combat yet. there will be if they plunge into kyiv. so i think the russians got a problem. their command and control looks like it must have been come apart along with their common sense at the commander level. ukrainians, not to discount their courage. they're going to have trouble by the way getting supplies in out of nato. german, swedish stinger missiles. getting them into ukraine and out to the fighting units in this chaos and violence is going

to be tough. but the russians are running a buzz saw. there's no question. >> katty, the story when you talk about sanctions is the enthusiastic participation of european allies and four weeks ago, it was a question about whether biden could or could not rally the allies. now the question seems to be what's after switzerland? switzerland is no longer neutral. germany has now changed course in a matter of day to send arms to ukraine. what is your sense of just how active and willing european countries have been to impose harsh sanctions on russia and what does more look like? >> i was in paris in london just last week and even in the course of time i was there, the mood shifted against putin particularly at the end of last week when that invasion started on thursday. the beginning of the week, the

europeans i spoke to european officials who were saying we don't actually think he is going to go in and we think that the americans are the ones that are ratcheting up the tension by talking about how terrible this is going to be. what a sea change we've had in just a few days since then. you've got switzerland, sweden. monaco, the playground of the rich and famous and many oligarchs also joining the sanctions of many russian individuals. you've never seen europe this united and it's because of the scenes they're seeing on their doorstep and the fear of what russia might do next. we all thought russia wouldn't go this far. although it was possible, i don't think any of us a week ago really imagined we'd be seeing the kinds of scenes we'd see now. and if those scenes that have galvanized europeans because they're thinking if putin can do that, if he can act the way he

is acting, if he seems that disconnected from the people around him, that distant from his advisers, what's to stop him if you are in the baltics tonight, you're very scared. you don't know whether putin is going to stop because anything seems to be on the table for him. >> what is the sense of the refugee crisis and what more can be done by ukraine's neighbors? obviously at this point, they seem to be coming out of western ukraine into poland, but they will, many of them, need new, permanent homes. their kids will need to go to new schools. they will need new jobs. tell me what that looks like for the whole of europe. >> well i guess initially they all hope they'll be able to go back right, again? they'll hope this is not a long running refugee crisis where these people have to be resettled permanently, but they'll have a free ukraine to return to.

it's been noticeable the difference in the way the european union and u.k. have responded to people coming out of ukraine compared to the way they responded to people coming out of the middle east and syria and north africa where there's been a real attempt to shut the doors to ukrainians, there's been much of of an open door policy. you've got one european country after another saying they will fast track applications for asylum, that people are effectively welcome to come and stay there and work there. there was a crass comment by a british official who said would you like to come and pick fruit for us. that was quickly shut down with a more open policy coming from boris johnson. you're getting an open reaction to these refugees, but the humanitarian organizations are suggesting these numbers could get much, much better once the

russians turn their -- on kyiv. >> thank you for joining us this hour. we're really grateful. up next for us, tonight's very closely watched state of the union address by our president. he will of course focus heavily on the war in ukraine. that country's ambassador to the united states will be among the first lady's guest. we'll talk about all of that and more coming up. stay with us. of that and more coming up stay with us

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it's one of the sort of last remaining marquee events on the american political calendar. we all and millions of numbers of us still watch it, but it's never really happened at a moment just like this. in a little more than four hours, we will witness what could be a transformative moment for this president and for his administration. president biden's state of the union address. the obvious backdrop not limited to what we spent the better part of the hour talking about, putin's invasion and it proceeding aboard. there are also big questions here at home about the economy. about how people feel about the economy. about the pandemic. how people feel about the pandemic and the literal state of our union. joining us now, three of the best people to talk to about that. eugene daniels here, plus former rnc chairman, my good friend, michael steel is here and former white house press secretary to

president obama, robert gibbs is here. eugene, what do you expect to hear tonight? >> we're going to hear the president first and foremost talk about ukraine. that is not just something on the minds of those of us at msnbc and working in politics. it's on the minds of the american people as they watch this invasion at home. i think more importantly, the cohesion, going against russia. the kind of support ukraine is getting. i think he's going to take credit for doing that. one of the things that the white house has you know, always talking about is how much does a president say about how they're going to take credit for a lot of these things, but a lot of this is because of president biden. yesterday, jen psaki, the beginning of her press briefing, she outlined these things. that's number one. you're also going to see him focus on the economy.

you're going the see him talk about most importantly, how they're going to cut costs as inflation continues to bother americans. continues to force prices to go up and he has a difficult line to walk because he has to talk about the last year, the things he feels his administration has done for the american people, bouncing back from covid. it will help that most of the folks there might not be wearing masks as just a symbol of how far this country has come over the last year of his presidency. but also talking about unemployment and how that's going down. how jobs numbers are high. it's important for him to tell the american people these are good things that are happening because they haven't been giving him credit or the democrats credit for a lot of that, but he has to be very honest with them about where things stand now. >> listening to eugene's reporting, spot on as usual, and i am guilty to watching too many aaron sorkin movies, but he

needs an american president moment. i didn't threaten to withhold from ukraine. i am the president. i didn't tell you to take off your mask before it was safe because i didn't want you to die. i am the president. you're being lied to, you're being disinformed and i'm going to lead no matter what you think of me. i think he needs to stand up and say you've been fed a lot of what would he say, malarky over the last five years, i'm the president, i'm going to give it to you straight. >> well, would mr. sorkin write the speech tonight because that's not what you're going to hear. >> we'll call him. >> i agree with you 1,000%. that's what it should say. in fact, if i were him, i'd walk up to the podium, present the paper to the speaker, the speech to the speaker then i'd turn around and i'd tear it up and

i'd take the moment to speak, touching on the things eugene laid out, but speak openly to the american people. have a conversation with them. let them know the state of our union is good, but fragile. the state of ourselves as americans needs to be strengthened. and how, and then tie that to what he's done globally. so my expectations, to be honest, are rather low. because i don't know, i'm not convinced that the political apparatus around the president understands this moment. and my fear is that they deliver a traditional, vanilla speech and won't allow joe to be joe. what you described is joe, right? he's the grandfather, the uncle who's going to come into the room and sit down and just kind of say come here, kid, let me tell you a few things. and let me, i know you kind of

mad at your mama and daddy right now, but i know you're upset with the bullies in the neighborhood, but. and so there are things that he can say that only he can say as president and i'm just curious as to whether or not his team gets that about him or do they try to buttonhole him in a traditional speech setting and try to rely on campaign joe to deliver once again? that's not what the country's going to be looking for tonight, and it's not what the world is going to be looking for either. >> yeah, look, i don't want to be pie in the sky, robert gibbs. what this president wants is to be taken seriously by the whole of the country, even those who didn't vote for him. it's not the goal of every democrat. it is the goal of this president. that is what joe biden views the american presidency as. it may be a relic, but that's how he views it, and to, you know, what is it, the under armour, the only way through is through so the only way to be taken seriously is to be strong and say, you're being fed a load

of b.s. about the pandemic. you're being fed a load of b.s. about vladimir putin. make no mistake. he is an enemy of the ukrainian people. he is slaughtering them for no reason. and again, you may not have voted for me, but i'm going to represent you in a way that doesn't bring shame to the american presidency. can he be that strong? can he be that direct? >> nicole, i think he can. you and michael steele have just animated for me every pre-state of the union meeting that you have in the white house, which is, let's have aaron sorkin moment and let's throw the speech aside and then about 20 minutes after that, cooler heads prevail and you get to writing that speech that michael says he doesn't want to see or hear. it's going to be a little bit more of that speech than it's going to be the tear the draft or script up moment. that michael envisions. look, i think there's a lot of business that this president has to do tonight, right? we've seen his approval ratings, but he's got to talk to the american people plainly about

what's at stake in ukraine, because i'm not sure they fully understand it, even as they're watching cable tv more and more with the images that we know are going to begin to horrify us with an even greater regularity. the challenges that eugene talked about that he faces with the economy and things like inflation are only going to get worse as a part of what they're watching on television. oil hit a seven-year high in price today, so all of these events are going to come together, and i hope that plain, simple language that we get tonight is a walk in the shoes of the american people in understanding where he wants to take them. the theories and the ideas that he has to help solve these problems, and to have a real honest conversation with them about what the next 6 to 9 months are going to be like. >> my thanks to eugene, michael, and robert gibbs. a quick break for us. we'll be right back. bertib gbs a quick break for us we'll be right back.

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there's some breaking news to tell you about from the january 6th select committee investigating the deadly insurrection. six new subpoenas were issued to individuals who the committee says promoted false claims about the 2020 election. among those subpoenaed was a woman who was on that call with the ex-president and georgia's secretary of state, brad raffensperger, who trump asked to find nearly 12,000 votes for him that did not exist in

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i think that ukraine has finally understood that it's better to die than to live on your knees, and this is what we're going through. this is what we're doing, basically, now. putin tells us that we don't

exist. putin tells us that we don't have a right to be independent or to have an independent government. he says our culture doesn't exist, our language doesn't exist. well, we disagree. we are a nation. we are an independent, proud nation, and we know how -- we want to live our own life, not just be appendage of this nuclear superpower that just wants to take over the world. >> hi again, everyone, it's 5:00 in new york. midnight in kyiv where a 40-mile russian convoy is currently making its way to the capital city. as ukrainian people, as you saw there, stand firm and determined and unflinching in the face of increasing russian aggression, kyiv, seemingly on the brink, potentially, of an all-out russian assault. the convoy is moving slowly. a senior u.s. defense official tells nbc news it stalled in response to the resistance put up by the ukrainians as well as logistics challenges.

but explosions today in civilian areas of ukraine show an escalation on moscow's part. today, russians attacked a tv tower in kyiv, leaving five people dead and more injured. and in kharkiv, video footage from freedom square shows a missile hitting the local government headquarters in an attack that ukrainian officials say left at least ten people dead. ukrainian president zelenskyy called the attack a war crime. there was also stunning split-screen moment on the world stage today when russian foreign minister sergey lavrov spoke in front of the u.n. human rights council earlier about 100 diplomats walked out of that room in protest. meanwhile, after delivering an emotional address to european parliament, zelenskyy received a standing ovation. he discussed that recent shelling in kharkiv and pleaded for ukraine to become part of the eu. here's part of that powerful speech, and take note of the translator, who cannot get through the translation without becoming emotional himself.

>> translator: this morning, two cruise missiles hit this freedom square. dozens of killed ones. this is the price of freedom. we are fighting. just for our land and for our freedom. despite the fact that all large cities of our country are now blocked. nobody's going to break us. we are strong. we are ukrainians. we have a desire to see our children alive. i think it's a fair one. yesterday, 16 children were killed. again and again, president pruitt is going to say that is some kind of operation and we

are hitting military infrastructure. where are our children? what kind of military factories do they work at? what tanks are they going with or launching cruise missiles? we are fighting. for our rights, for our freedoms, for life, for our life, and now, we are fighting for survival. and this is the highest of our motivation, but we are fighting also to be equal members of europe. we have proven our strength. we have proven that as at a minimum we are exactly the same as you are. so, do prove that you are with us. do prove that you will not let us go. do prove that you indeed are europeans, and then life will

win over death and light will win over darkness. glory be to ukraine. >> i've watched it three times. it's something. it's a speech that will be listened to for many years to come. joining our conversation, msnbc national security analyst jeremy bash, former chief of staff at the cia and the department of defense. also joining us, helene cooper, "new york times" correspondent and msnbc contributor. and pete strzok is here, former fbi counterintelligence agent. i want to start with you, helene, and you cover the pentagon. you cover and understand wars. you broke the story about the u.s. intelligence agencies pushing out precisely what they understood putin's intentions to be. it feels like if there was part of this story that was opaque to the world, it was this part of it. it was zelenskyy's steeliness

and it was the ukrainian people's willingness to die before they hand over their country to vladimir putin. >> hi, nicole. thank you for having me. you're quite right, and i think in particular, after what happened last summer in afghanistan, that may have colored some american officials' expectations in the weeks leading up to it, to this -- to russia's invasion of ukraine, there was always a question mark. american officials said we expect them to fight, but who knows? this is a big powerful military. what we've seen, i think, has stunned the world. the steel that we've seen from both volodymyr zelenskyy but also the ukrainian military and the ukrainian people, i think, has been both inspiring and in some ways kind of -- i don't

want to use the word shaming, because at the end of the day, the west and the american government, president biden in particular, they don't want -- it would still be treasonous, i think, almost, at this point, for them to go to war with russia over ukraine, but it's -- it feels, after seeing what we've seen for the past six weeks, like it might be a lot more justifiable at this point. i'm not saying that officials are talking about it. they still said, and i talked to somebody at the pentagon just yesterday about this, and they said -- still said, options are -- all options are on the table except sending american troops in. so, you know, i don't want to make it as if this is something that's being considered. it's not. but it's certainly -- it certainly is stunning just how the ukrainian reaction to this

invasion has sort of stiffened the steel -- stiffened the spines of officials both in america but also particularly in europe. >> and that seems to be, in a lot of ways, the fastest moving and most dynamic part of the story, right? i mean, switzerland is now not neutral. germany sending weapons. let me play some more about how many people are willing to fight. this is from "morning joe" earlier today. this is alexandra, a member of ukrainian parliament. >> 100,000 people in the first two days sign up for the army. i have my friends, my girlfriends, sign up for the army just to go and protect. unfortunately, we cannot accept more people now to go fight on the streets because we ran out of guns. we literally don't have helmets, bulletproof vests. we don't have basic guns just to fight with. we are grateful that right now

the international community, the united states, uk, they're sending us javelins, they're sending singers so we can fight in the air. we can fight with the tanks. but if we want to protect the civilian population and putin is targeting the civilian population now so we panic, so we run. >> i want to understand, helene. i imagine we have the ability to send helmets, bulletproof vests and guns. tell me what your understanding is from u.s. military about the challenges of getting things into the ukrainians. >> it's challenging but we're still getting stuff in. there's still weapons convoys that are coming over the border from poland. the $350 million weapons aid that president biden announced on saturday is already flowing through. things have been moved already to poland and to germany.

the biden administration has been shifting weaponry in the weeks before, so things at the moment, there is still -- javelins are still getting through. stingers are getting through. artillery. at the moment, that's still getting in. that is expected, you know, who knows how long that will last. officials are bracing for russian attacks on some of these convoys that are headed from the west into kyiv. so, we don't know how long this flow is going to last, but one of the things, nicole, that i found particularly interesting today, talking to -- from pentagon officials, it's just the russian military itself. and what we're seeing from this largely conscript army of young kids who have never fought before and who believed that

they were going to ukraine for training, they were going to the border for training exercises. pentagon official said this morning that part of the reason why this russian convoy that we've heard so much about, these three access lines that they have going into kyiv and kharkiv and even in the maripol where russian marines did an amphibious landing, they did so, and they still haven't reached maripol, which has given the ukrainian military time to set up for defending that city. but there's been -- the pentagon officials have been surprised at russian troops who have not surrendered but laid down their arms. they said some whole units in some cases have refused to fight. not many, but significant enough that the united states -- that u.s. intel picked that up. some of them have punctured holes in gas tanks in order to

prevent their vehicles from moving. this convoy is moving so slowly, and part of the reason is logistics, running out of gas and that sort of thing. pentagon officials also said this morning that russia is having trouble getting food in some cases to its troops. so you have, on the one hand, this steely resolve from the ukrainian military and the ukrainian people who are fighting for their very lives and for their country and for their ability to live the way they want to live, and then you have these, in many cases, bewildered young russian soldiers who are not sure why they're there, and it's quite -- i think that contrast plays into why we haven't seen ukraine roll over yet. >> yeah, and i mean, pete, if you could give me your analysis of what is going on -- of why what helene is reporting is. why? i think we're on day three of

that convoy slowly sort of, you know, trudging toward kyiv, of this dynamic of fuel shortages and jeremy and others have made the point that military-to-military, tanks to tanks, soldiers to soldiers, ukraine is outmatched 100 days to 1. but there is this dynamic of this sort of incompetent, halfhearted effort on the russian part. or is that a complete misread? tell me how you see it. >> well, i don't think it's a misread. i think it's clearly, you know, we appropriately give a lot of credit to the u.s. intelligence community for their forewarning about what was coming. i think at the same time, you have to see what has happened in russia as a massive, massive intelligence failure. there was a failure to understand what the capabilities of the russian military were and what they might expect and how they might perform when they went into ukraine. it's clear right now that they -- ukraine is absolutely winning the information war in terms of the court of public opinion around the world, seeing

what they're doing and what that ukrainian narrative is, it's absolutely winning the day. and everything, as you go down the line, that the svr, which is the russian equivalent of the cia, their leader, you know, putin publicly humiliated him in that news conference a few days ago. everybody in that foreign intelligence agency watching that and across the board all these things that russia has tried to achieve, whether it's dismantling nato, whether with it's reducing u.s. influence in europe, whether it's encouraging and finding allies in the u.s. political system that would give the russians greater play in the european environment, all of these are just intelligence failure after intelligence failure, and i think it speaks to, you know, what many experts and kremlinologists have pointed to an increasing isolation of vladimir putin where he no longer has people around him who are willing to tell him the truth. perhaps he's watching and indulging in russian state television or wheeling out tucker carlson and all these

folks who are presenting an image which isn't accurate and has led to him taking terrible decisions. >> i want to ask you about that, pete. i mean, it shouldn't be, i think, overplayed or underplayed and i wonder what the right place to put in putin's assessment the elevation and flattery not a month ago, not three weeks ago, but four days ago from not an old american president. the last american president calling him a, quote, genius. tucker carlson going on and on about putin's prerogatives. laura ingraham going on and on about his skill. jd vance going on and on. i mean, every day, you know, i don't know that these people are huge figures in everyday american life, but they are lifted up on russian state tv as the most powerful voices in america, which we all know they are not. but tell me how that may have distorted putin's view of his standing on the world stage as he now has his economy choked off from the rest of the world.

>> yeah, well, i think the terrible, terrible truth is that people like the former president, people like tucker carlson played a role in the decision of russia, as they considered whether or not to roll into the ukraine. i think as part of what intelligence agencies do and certainly the russian intelligence system is to try and gain an understanding of what the united states, who is the primary adversary of russia, what the united states will or will not do given any particular event, and so in this case, when it came to trying to assess what the united states's response would be, were they to roll into ukraine, when they hear all these folks from the united states, from the past administration, from tucker carlson and others saying, why should -- why do we care what happens in ukraine? why are we worried about defending russia or ukraine's borders? that's really russia's business. people in moscow, people in russia, people in russian intelligence and certainly putin himself are listening to that, whether it's being collected by their intelligence services,

whether it's being broadcast by russian state television, and their assumption, part of what they weigh is, well, there isn't resolve in the united states. they aren't going to care too much or one way or the other if we roll into ukraine, and of course they terribly misjudged that. we now have the 82nd airborne in poland. we have a uniting amongst the nato alliance. we have, you know, germany massively increasing their defense spending. across the board, things that russia counted on happening, they counted on wrong, and in no small part because of the statements that are coming from former president trump, coming from tucker carlson and others that are being replayed and rebroadcast again and again and again on russian television. >> and the losers, jeremy, are the human beings. the human lives at risk and those who have lost their lives in ukraine. there are unconfirmable numbers of dead russians. and there will be a country to rebuild and a shattered faith in the post world war ii security

compact. what do we -- what do we do as this feels like this slow-moving human tragedy playing out in large part on our tv screens? >> well, nicole, i think you put your finger on it. we're in a very dangerous moment because although in some respects, the last five days have brought some welcome news, both in terms of the resolve of the ukrainian forces, the unity we've seen around the world, not just in europe but from everyday americans, you know, changing their social media posts to put the blue and gold of the ukrainian flag out there, you've seen protests. you've seen people come into the streets across the world to back ukraine. so in some degree, you've seen some very encouraging signs about western alliance and unity, but you know, i worry this is such a dangerous moment because what does putin do with his, you know, 40-mile iron knife now basically stalled.

it can't actually go after the enemy. it can't close on the enemy. and you know, he's isolated, sitting at the end of a long table, and the world is cutting him off. you know, corporation by corporation is announcing they're leaving russia, which i think is absolutely the right call. neutral countries like switzerland are saying, we're joining the west, we're joining the nato alliance and sanctioning russia. the ruble is in free fall. the stock market is closed. there's a run on the banks. no one can do business with a russian bank. no one can do an e-commerce transaction with russia, so his back is against the wall, nicole, so i think this is the moment when he has the potential to really lash out, to try to lay siege to kyiv, to indiscriminately bomb civilians, to do what he did in grasni and syria and absolutely have total disregard for human life and rattle the nuclear saber. and so i think this is the moment when the united states and our western allies have to be even more resolved and more

strong and to helene's point, we may not engage in direct war, but i think we have to be engaged in indirect war, and indirect war is like charlie wilson's war, the sequel. i mean, i think we have to continue to train and equip the ukrainians, maybe even do that outside the country. i think we have to be able to help them shoot down out of the sky, russian aircraft. we have to help them stop the advance of mechanized infantry, including tanks, and pop open those tanks like a can opener and kill the russians inside. we have to make this so painful for russia that putin has absolutely no choice but to back off. but this is a critical moment, nicole, because if we can do this, if we can actually win this war, we can settle a lot of scores, and we can actually put autocracies back on their heels, but if russia prevails, god help us. god help the west. god help democracy. >> well, jeremy, i'm going to need you to say more and then helene, i'm going to need you to tell me if any of this is on the

table. what does that look like? we pull out some of the fighting forces and train them in neighboring nato allies and send them back in with new and enhanced skills to shoot down russian planes? explain, jeremy. >> we have to increase our supply lines inside the country. there may be units and elements that we have to train outside the country. just depends on what we can gain access to and what nato allies and partners can gain access to. i think we have to sell realtime information and intelligence about the battle space. i think we should be feeding them information about where the russians are. where their convoys are, where their planes are. we should be helping in things like cyber capabilities, or use electronic capabilities. there's a lot of tools in our toolbox. >> okay, we have to sneak in a break, but helene, i want to

know if any of that is on the table, and pete, i want to know what that war without our fingerprints on it would look like. much, much more from jeremy and pete and helene on the other side and much more on the crisis in ukraine as hundreds of thousands of ukrainian refugees flee their homeland for safety. and later in the program, we're just under four hours until president joe biden's very first state of the union address is coming at a time of high tension here at home and abroad. we'll get a chance to speak to dnc chairman jamie harrison about the president's message to the american people later tonight. ident's message to the american people later tonight.

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i held because i do not want to sit in home and it's like too moving. >> too emotional. >> emotional. yes. yeah. >> you'd rather work? >> yes. >> and do something. >> i need to talk in three languages, ukrainian, polish and english, and i need to practice. also, it's scary because i do not know any minutes a bomb can hit ukraine and our house. >> that's another example of just how quickly life changed and the remarkable strength of ukrainians during this extraordinary time. that was our colleague, kelly cobiella, reporting in poland, speaking with a 16-year-old ukrainian from lviv who's volunteering to help others from her country safely -- to safety there. we're back with our panel.

so, helene, jeremy's being specific, and maybe these specific tactics are on the table and in the works and maybe they don't want to talk about them, but what is your understanding of each of them, escalating our cyber offensive against russia, training ukrainian troops outside of the country, more weapons, and more aggressive support for the ukrainian military counteroffensive against russia? >> well, all of these have been on the table and some of them have been in the works for quite a while. let me start first with supporting an insurgency and training ukrainian troops outside of the country. the administration's been talking about that for a couple of months now. in january, i did a story on how the united states was already starting to put some of the building blocks in place for that. it's interesting because america

has spent 20 years fighting an insurgency in afghanistan, doing so in iraq. we're not that good at fighting insurgencies, but when it comes to actually supporting one, that's a whole different story, and we're actually quite good at that. look at charlie wilson's war, for instance. so, that's something that officials, pentagon officials as well as administration officials, nsc officials, people at the white house have been looking at for several weeks now. they have spoken about doing this outside of -- doing training camps outside of the company. they've talked about -- outside of the ukraine and then sending these troops back in. they've looked into how they might get armaments and weaponry into the territorial defense force that ukraine had already set up before russia started to

invade, so these things are not quite in place yet, but they're certainly on the table and there's been quite a bit of discussion about that, and i absolutely expect that will happen in the event that russia does manage in its -- putin's stated aim of toppling the ukrainian government. people are hesitant about talking about it right now, though, because that presupposes -- and especially when you have the ukrainian government and the ukrainian military fighting as hard as they are, zelenskyy did not turn tail and run. as soon as the russians moved in, he has stayed. his government has stayed. his top officials have stayed. and so, talking about how you're going to fund an insurgency after they're toppled seems a little bit premature, i think, at this point. the other -- getting -- flowing weapons more aggressively to the

ukrainians. the united states certainly is looking for ways to do that but that's something they're going to do covertly in some cases and overtly in some cases because they have to be careful about trip wires in which they trigger russia to start thinking about retaliating. you don't want -- especially since president biden has said straight out that he's not sending troops over the border. the cyber stuff, absolutely, but they will not talk about that. >> pete strzok, something that strikes me as our coverage from this very safe distance, so safe it's uncomfortable, sort of rolls into its sixth, seventh day here is that this could go on a very long time. that they may not be living in the country they lived in seven days ago for a very long time, and i wonder how you assess that. >> well, i think it's absolutely true that we need to be preparing ourselves for something that isn't going to be measured in weeks but potentially months and longer and how we prevent any given

scenario from escalating into a, you know, a global conflict, which would draw on the united states and western europe. i think from an intelligence perspective, there are a lot of, you know, in the chaos of war, there are a lot of opportunities that present themselves. clearly, the u.s. military and nato allies are doing a tremendous amount to gather intelligence about what's going on in the battlefield in ukraine but there are things that move and go into second order places. things like russia. when you shake up a financial system and you cut off assets, people scramble to find ways to get money. they talk in different ways. people become disenchanted with their government. they present potential recruitment target for u.s. and western intelligence services. so, there's a lot of opportunities there to start gathering information for the long haul and to start informing ourselves about what we're going to need to do to navigate this crisis and one more point. this, you know, we've talked a lot about what the u.s. and governments might do. what's been particularly interesting, this conflict, this is the first twitter war. you can go on twitter and social media and find any number of

people who are uploading videos of what they're seeing, what they're doing, put out information and you have private parties who are monitoring and publishing open russian radio communications. you have hacker, private nonstate hacker groups who are allegedly doing things like breaking in and releasing the information of russian servicemen who are in ukraine so you have all this tremendous proliferation of nonstate actors who are engaging in the open source environment, and you know, bringing to bear, really, in many ways, something we haven't seen in a major conflict before. so, i think we're not going to see the end of this any time soon. i agree with you, and i think we need to be positioning ourselves for the long haul, meaning, months, potentially, and moving forward in a way that manages to, you know, resolve this conflict in favor of ukraine but certainly doesn't allow it to escalate. >> president zelenskyy's speech today was like the real world manifestation of president joe biden's inaugural address, which obviously came on the heels of an attack on our own democracy, the january 6th insurrection.

jeremy, i wonder if you can speak to, with all of your sources inside the government, at the agencies in which you served and at the white house and state department, what tonight means to joe biden. >> yeah, this is a competition, nicole, for two models. two models of the way to live. one is under autocratic rule of state control, of the economy, that's the model of xi jinping in china and the model of vladimir putin in russia. and the other model, the model that joe biden's going to try to uphold and show that it can actually deliver is the model of democracy, a free market capitalism. of a society that can stay unified despite all of our differences, despite all of our diversity, can stay unified under some common critical requirements as a society, and i think what joe biden's going to try to argue is that democracies can deliver.

autocracies don't deliver anything for their people. and they're just, in essence, they're going to try to advances their model and we have to fight back as ferociously supporting our model, and so i think you're going to hear from joe biden, the competition of these models and the argument that we need to double down, invest in our country so we can win and compete on the global stage. >> jeremy barks, helene cooper, pete strzok, thank you so much for spending time with us today. we're really grateful. and the invasion in ukraine will be a big part of president joe biden's very first state of the union address tonight. when we return, dnc chairman jamie harrison will be our guest as we get a look at what's in the speech, what the president will say a few hours from now. the speech, what the president will say a few hours from now. ♪[music]♪ at aetna® we're shifting medicare coverage into high gear with benefits you may be eligible for when you turn 65. benefits that may include a $0 monthly plan premium. telehealth emergency coverage while you travel an over-the-counter allowance plus dental, vision, and hearing

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right now, we are about three hours and 22 minutes away from president biden's first state of the union address. the president will be looking to rally the country behind his domestic agenda, rebuilding the economy, and beating the coronavirus pandemic. all of it will be overshadowed, of course, by the war in ukraine. joining us now is the chair of the democratic national committee, jaime harrison. thank you for being with us today. what do you need to hear tonight from this president to make sure he gets credit for the things that he and democrats are doing? >> well, first of all, thank you for having me, nicole. listen, i had an opportunity to have lunch with the president

probably about two weeks ago, and we talked briefly about the state of the union, and i believe what's going to happen is that the president's going to speak directly to the american people. he's going to talk about how, you know, over the past few years, dealing with covid, this nation has been caught with anxiety and fear, dealing with this pandemic, and -- but this president has been focused, like a laser, on figuring out how to mitigate those anxieties and fears, how to give people reassurance that things are going to get better, that we will get back to normal. and he's been working hard on that. so he's going to talk about the things that we have done, the things that we have accomplished, but also the plan that he has to continue to make progress. he also is going to talk about the anxiety and fear that's gripping the world right now. i think both domestically and internationally. joe biden has been a leader, and he's going to paint out what his road map is for that leadership. not only for americans here but

for the citizens of the world also. >> i heard from a white house official today who said they're aware of the polls. their hope is that the public will kind of settle down, that this real effort to return to normal and the pandemic front and a real articulation tonight. i have some of what he's going to say about inflation. let me put this up. he's going to say, we have a choice. one way to fight inflation is to drive down wages and make americans poorer. i have a better plan. lower your costs, not your wages, make more cars and semiconductors in america, more infrastructure and innovation in america, more goods moving faster and cheaper in america, more jobs where you can earn a good living in america. and instead of relying on foreign supply chains, let's make it in america. economists call it increasing the productive capacity of our economy. i call it building a better america. my plan to fight inflation will lower your costs and lower the deficit. my question is that the economy's in pretty good shape,

and inflation seems to color all the other indicators. do you need -- does this sound plain spoken must have for the president to, one, look like he's on the thing that people are most angsty about and two, get credit for the good he has done? >> well, you know, he has to speak to, again, the anxiety and fears of folks, and a lot of that is around cost. and i think he's going to speak in plain english, as my grandfather used to tell me, jaime, i don't want to hear all that highfaluting talk. speak plain to me. i think that's what joe biden's going to do tonight. right now, when he lays out how we reduce costs for everyday americans, i mean, things like prescription drugs. prescription drugs are really expensive. i help take care of my grandma who's in a nursing home and i know the burden of prescription drugs on my of our citizens around here. how you reduce the cost of child care. as a father of two kids, i know that child care is not cheap.

and if you are single, if you're by yourself and you have to cover child care of one or two kids, it can take a third of your paycheck. those are the things joe biden has a plan and solutions for. now, what we need to do, nicole, is, you know, once the bill is on his desk, he will sign it and it will become law and automatically reduce costs. now, what we need to do is to get republicans in the senate to stop filibustering, stop standing in the way of bringing down the costs for everyday folks. stop offering plans that increase the taxes on half of americans. stop -- not stop, but go to your hearing instead of walking out of the hearings so that we can get people on the federal reserve, so we can bring down the inflationary pressures of this country. we need partners on that, but i want you to know, joe biden and the democrats in the house and senate are focused, like a laser, on bringing down these pressures on the american people. >> jaime, if you had your

druthers, would you wish that the progressives would not rebut the president's state of the union address with everything going on right now in the world? >> well, you know, nicole, the only address that people are going to pay attention to is what joe biden says tonight, and so, you know, that type of stuff is all white noise. i mean, even the republican response, you know, you and i have been doing this thing long enough, there will probably be 10 or 15 people that will watch that for a few seconds and then they'll go to the fridge and get another drink or something. in essence, the american people are going to be focused on what joe biden says and how he can alleviate the pressures that people are feeling and give people hope, because that's what joe biden can do probably better than most politicians in this country. he's somebody who's been through something, who has experienced pain and hardship and understands how hard it can be, but he also knows how he has some plans to really make things better for all of the american people. >> so, i'll take that as a, it's okay they give it but no one's

going to be watching, they're going to be getting a drink. jaime harrison, thank you for spending time with us tonight. joining our conversation, former obama campaign manager, david plouffe and eddie glaude is back from princeton university. eddie, i have to start with you and this moment. you know, actually, all three of us have these conversations day in and day out about whether people understand the stakes that our democracy was attacked and the reason we cover liz cheney on the committee is because there aren't very many republicans willing to say what she says, which is that it is the trump movement that threatens democracy here at home. we now have a war in ukraine that is being waged by someone who the entire republican party fell in line behind for five years. they made pilgrimages to moscow. and what the ex-president did, something for which he was not convicted by the u.s. senate for doing, was to lord over them

congressionally approved military fighting. he's now fighting a war, likely, with some of what that funding helped him purchase and have for his military. i wonder, eddie, what your feeling is when you see the american people mercifully quite united about the plight of the ukrainian people, but the blood on the hands of the republicans who not three months ago, not three years ago, but up until four days ago were still apologists for vladimir putin. >> absolutely. it lets us know that we have illiberal forces, nicole, within the country, and i think it's important for the president tonight to do at least two things. one is he has to offer a broad framing around the challenges that democracy face. he has to -- we have to defend democracy abroad and secure it at home. what does it mean to secure democracy at home? it involves addressing voting rights. it involves addressing big money in politics. it involves addressing the illiberal forces that threaten to undermine the very foundation

of our democracy in this country. so, i think he has to set the broad framing of the stakes. then he needs to move, i think, specifically to the kitchen table issues, right, what is -- what has the administration done to address our day-to-day lives. that means he has to address what they've done in terms of covid, vaccinations, our move, what we're doing to move to some sense not necessarily abnormality, but how are we going to live our lives moving forward? and in relation to the economy. jobs. how we've gotten out of this hold in some ways. and then he has to pivot from that to what we still need to do. and at the last part, nicole, i would say, in relation to what you have just said, by the accidents of history, we have in our hands the responsibility for democracy itself. and there needs to be a soaring rhetoric about whether we're going to choose to defend it or whether we're going to betray it. and i think that's the arc of what he needs to do tonight, at least from my vantage point. >> david plouffe, i want to know how you see it.

i want to read one more excerpt we got from president biden's state of the union address tonight. he will say this. throughout our history, we have learned this lesson. when dictators do not pay a price for their aggression, they cause more chaos, they keep moving, and the costs and threats to america and to the world keep rising. that is why the nato alliance was created, to secure peace and stability in europe after world war ii. the united states is a member along with 29 other nations. it matters. american diplomacy matters. putin's war was premeditated and unprovoked. he rejected efforts at diplomacy. he thought the west and nato wouldn't respond, and he thought he could divide us here at home. putin was wrong. we were ready. the president has also rallied some of the most brutal economic cudgels that have ever been used against russia. what is your take of sort of what the storytelling is on this part of the speech and what do you think of what we've heard so

far? >> well, nicole, i think it's going to be quite unusual, because he'll start with foreign policy, which is usually not the case. usually, staffers in the national security council are fighting for a few paragraphs. i think that's going to be a big part of the speech. but obviously, that is very much connected to the question you just asked eddie, which is, you know, what we're seeing in terms of russia, saber rattling in other parts of the world. you know, autocracy on the rise pretty much around the plan et. that's very much the case here and so i think there's -- and i hope this isn't a two-hour speech, so he's got a lot of business to get done in a short period of time. clearly ukraine's got to be at the top of that agenda, and i think talking about the fight for democracy here is important. that will be seen as partisan, but i think at least 75% of the country believes we remain a democracy and then i think he has to give hope that we're going into the endemic stage of the pandemic, what that means for people, and on the economy,

i think i wouldn't celebrate too much. i think it's okay to say we dug out more quickly than anybody thought, the roads and bridges that are being built, the american people who have been the hero in that story, both in terms of the pandemic as well as the economic side of it, but mention there's still some things we can do to help with costs, and if he does that, today's not going to be a contrast speech, really, at least not explicitly, but i think he can hopefully reach people in terms of, he's ready for this moment, he's gotten a lot of important things done, he's got a vision for the future, and then the campaign side of things, which is candidates out in states and districts can really begin to lay the contrast, which is great. and i think there's been another chapter added about why we can't afford to change republicans, this brand of republicans, would represent. they're going to cut taxes for the wealthy and hurt the middle class. they don't believe in democracy. and too many of them have stood by putin. and so, i think that if you want to give them the levers of power, go ahead.

but be forewarned of what that means. and so, again, i think that tonight, though, the president can't try and do 25 things, it's not going to be a list of, here's my 75 pieces of legislation i'd like this congress to pass. he's got to set the context here and make sure the make sure the big pieces get done with democracy and i agree front and center. >> eddy glad, sticking around, just listening to you talk, i think all three of us gave him at least seven each. we'll keep talking about it on the other side of the break, don't go anywhere.

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we're back with david and eddy. david, it's indicitave of how much drinking out of a fire hose we're doing, he has to talk about how the pandemic has gone from pandemic to endemic, huge deal in terms of how people live their lives even in blue city and see blue states, mask mandates being rolled back. talk about how he communicates that we're still going to be safe, just moving into a different phase, where we're protected by the vaccines and therapeutics and sort of keeps the faith that the recovery is durable. >> well, i think he can be very forward-leaning based on the science and based on what local

officials are doing all around the country. i do think he has to have, you know, a sense of warning that there could be new variants emerge, that we're going to have to respond to, and we're going to let the science guide us. but i think he can be mostly optimistic and i hope he can, you know, take credit for a lot of the things his administration has done, but really put the credit out to the american people. you know, it's two years ago that people had their lives upended, many people lost loved ones, you had nurses and firefighter and see grocery store workers and transportation workers on the front lines making sure our country continues to move and operate, so i think this is a moment to thank the american people for their sacrifice and then, you know, we're definitely coming out of th doesn't mean we still shouldn't take precautions and react to new information, but that because of the way it goes with the american people and scientists and doctors, we're on the other side of this and not forget, the american people are deeply interested in what is going on in ukraine, obviously deeply interested hourly in inflation, because they're

trying to make it through every week and every month but this has been a dominant part of life and i think it's really important for him to, you know, if not lead us out of the pandemic stage itself, be at the front edge of it. >> it has been the way we have lived our lives, the way we've all talked, been separated and not been around this table, hopefully, soon enough, david, eddy, thank you so much for joining us today. that does it for deadline:white house, i'll be back with my friends and colleagues, rachel maddow, steve, keeping an eye on the first primary this season in texas, lawrence odonnell will also join you say for the president biden first state of the union address 8:00 eastern. after "the beat" coming up after a quick break. after a quick break.

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welcome to "the beat" as we come on the air, a classic split screen moment, president biden ready to address the nation tonight, with the world watching in the nation's capitol but while he delivers the speech, vladimir putin will be in moscow plotting the on going attacks in ukraine and new information how they may intensify tonight. biden will stress unity with nato as officials warn a frustrated vladimir putin may be escalating the violence, in ukraine today, air strikes raining down on administrative building, a target, killed