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they were talking about measures the international community is taking to punish president putin. the worst of russia's shelling continues to hit ukraine's second largest city, kharkiv, where are ukrainian soldiers are are being hit with a barrage of air strikes. russian forces say they have control of the southern city, a key access port to the black sea. and that claim is backed up by a facebook post from the mayor. the refugee crisis hitting unprecedented levels in eastern europe with more than 1 million ukrainians fleeing through check points and by train and sharing their pain throughout this ordeal along the way.

>> secretary of state, blinken, is on his way to nato meetings in brussels. he'll then visit poland, mole dovau and three bottling countries. on wednesday, i asked the secretary about putin's nuclear threats. >> you've just quoted the president saying big nations don't bluff. do you think that president putin is bluffing by putting his nuclear forces on alert? >> provocative rhetoric about nuclear weapons is the height of irresponsibility. it's dangerous. it adds to the risk of miscalculation. it needs to be avoided. >> joining me now, nbc chief foreign correspondent and international correspondent in moscow. we just heard president putin is speaking moments age.

tell us what he said, his very distorted view of reality. >> reporter: yeah, it's another rambling diatribe from president putin, honestly. fairly chilling. he is talking first about the bravery e, as he described it, of the russian soldiers. talked about soldiers who have been killed in battle. just a few days ago russia was not talking about numbers of injured or wounded or killed. now president putin is talking about it on television. but praising them and going on to justify russia's campaign. i think we're getting a glimpse of the same president putin who spoke for 90 minutes with essentially macron and the french were clearly quite disturbed by that conversation. describing the conversation as not so friendly. and as you know, the french were very much the peacemakers, the

people trying to the last to negotiate and go for diplomacy before this conflict. but now a source in the french government saying putin's goal is to take control of all of ukraine. now, today, i had a chance to question foreign minister lavrov, the russian foreign minister. i asked him about those suggestions that president putin is isolated and erratic. i also segwayed in our conversation on to, of course, the question of the nuclear threats we've been hearing from the russian government. take a listen. for decades russia and america have maintained stability despite fiercem nuclear capability. can you reassure the world that russia would not fire a nuclear weapon in anger, would not fire a first strike? >> translator: we don't have insane people.

we have our military doctrine. that describes the parameters and conditions for flying nuclear weapons. it contains no escalation for deescalation point. >> reporter: we have seen talks today between the russians and the ukrainians. but so far, andrea, no sign those talks have gone anywhere. and judging by the demeanor and the words from the russian president in the past hour, perhaps that's not surprising. >> not at all and richard, you've had this experience with president zelenskyy. tell us what's happen, the fighting across the country and what president zelenskyy told you earlier today. >> reporter: so, president zelenskyy had a small pres conference with a group of reporters here in kyiv. he is clearly still in the capitol, still in control of his government. he appeared relaxed, calm. said he's not getting a

tremendous amount of sleep but he wants to have a conversation with vladimir putin. he said there is plenty of room for dialogue, plenty of room for negauche yagszs. said there can be concessions from ukraine. they can talk about flexibility on donbas and language issues and it can't become a vasal state. and says he doesn't want to sit down with putin at a long table. he wants to talk to him face to face, eye to eye because he said that putin, at the end of the day, is the only person that could potentially end this war. you just mentioned you want to talk to vladimir peaten. he's so far not been willing to meet with you. do you have a message for him now that ukrainian cities are under attack, this city is under attack, a convoy is on its way? is there a way to prevent this war from escalating even further

now? >> it's not about putin. there are other ways to stop this war. >> reporter: president zelenskyy also said that he does not believe that putin will just stop at ukraine. he says this is now a global threat and that he will, according to the president's analysis, keep going and go all the way to germany. >> and richard, i mean, that's what president putin said said in his comment, that he's going to go throughout ukraine, not all the way to germany. tell me also what's happening with the convoy. is that convoy still stalled outside kyiv? and how are the people in kyiv?

>> reporter: so, we're seeing now a multi-pronged attack on different cities. the city of hassan has fallen. the first ukrainian city to go to russian control. although they say there is still some resistance in the city. the city of mariupol is under attack. the biggest one, of course, is kyiv, the capitol, home to 3 million people and the government is a city a that zelenskyy said a short time ago he does not intend to leave. he wants to stay and continue to lead the government and lead a resistance against the russian military onslaught. so far there have been air strikes in kyiv. most of the fighting, however, remains on the out skirts of the city and that convoy, ukrainians

say they are now attacking the convoy. that they have begun to do strikes on the vehicles. the 40 miles long in some places several vehicles wide, but the convoy, as far as we can tell, and according to u.s. officials, continues to be stalled. it is not making a rapid advance on the city. but some of that is because of logistics delays. some could be because of the russian army regrouping. but based on what we were hearing from the french about their call with vladimir putin about macron's call with vladimir putin and what kier was just reporting about putin's statements on russian television, does not sound like the convoy is going to be paused for long and putin's clearly not given up on his objective to over take ukraine.

>> thank you both for are extraordinary work on all fronts. are and joining us a member of the armed services and foreign relations committees who visited ukraine just weeks before the invasion befwan and chair of the senate intelligence committee. senator warner, first to you, what i've been told, what the president indicated two weeks ago was he was going to go all the way to kyiv to try topple the government. is there anything to disbelieve that from all the briefings you've had that you can share? >> no, i think the american intelligence community has been spot on, both in terms of the extent of putin's invasion and the fact that they intend to take the major population centers. how much further west of kyiv, west of the river they will go, i think is a bit of an open question. i think obviously putin has miscalculated because of the

ferociousness of the ukrainian resistance. the complete alliance and something they've done great work in terms of helping rally our european allies. i know you mentioned comments about what's going on with the convoy. i think the ukrainians were able to take out some of the initial vehicles and in a rural road, where you've now got mud round it, and some of this may be repositioning, and some may be chaotic lack of russian leadership on the ground and figuring out a way to get around what is a small road with mud on the fields and vehicles in the front of that convoy to take them out. >> and a bridge taken out by the ukrainians as well. you know the area well, you've been there and from the armed services perspective, does the ukrainian army -- i know it's a contested airspace but did the russians take up so much of the air control that they can't go

up and they've got the attack helicopters, don't they? can't they do something more to the convoy? >> they do but they're obviously overpowered in the air. what's surprising is russia still doesn't have air superiority. i think it's taken them longer to over run parts of the country than was expected. russia changed their policy for conscripts a couple of years ago. instead of having a two-year conscript, they now have a one-year. if you spend almost half of that in training, you don't have new conscripts who have the kind of experience and expertise that you might expect when you're trying to do this overwhelming invasion of the country of ukraine. so, i've been struck, really, by some of the pictures of russian

soldiers who -- one who was captured, who was being treated very nicely by the ukrainians. the young man who was texting to his mother that he thought he was going to be treated as a liberator and in fact, was killed shortly after that. i think there's been some of that where russia's sent conscripts in first and have been a little surprised by the really courageous reaction from the ukrainians. >> can i add two things he to what she just said? one is there is about 40% of the ukrainian air defense still left. but in terms of who controls the airspace over that convoy, clearly the russians do. so, you kind of wonder if they can potentially send in drones. they've got drones from turkey. but the idea of sending a few attack helicopters. when you have russian control, the airspace round that convoy

would maybe be a suicide mission. on the other hand, i think we've all been surprised that putin reserved some of his best troops. he sent in conscripts first and i continue to be amazed and i think the intel community does as well, that russia nautz brought the full force of cyber tools. the fact we're still getting images out of ukraine, that the internet's not been taken down. thank god but russia does have the capacity to do that and i'm amazed hay haven't. >> i was talking to ann new berger, the top white house expert on that and asked the same question of secretary blinken yesterday. and i think everyone in the community is surprised. but the ukrainians have great cyber skills and as you guys know the u.s. has been trying to build up their resistance over these months. senator, you know the ukrainians so well.

you spent so much time there over the years. the world is just amazed and really in awe of the unified response and also president zelenskyy rising to this occasion. speak to that. >> well, the president has displayed tremendous leadership and courage. senator warner and i were in munich with a very large bipartisan delegation from congress for the munich security conference. and he was encouraged not to come to that conference in person. there was concern about his leaving the country and yet he came and he gave a very impassioned, very compelling speech about the roles that ukraine is playing as protecting the rest of europe from russia. and we're seeing this played out as he has stayed in the country, as he has continued his videos to the people of the country to rally the population and they

have responded in kind. it has been amazing. and for me it's been encouraging to see so many people round the world come to their aid to sports figures and sports teams who have refused to play in russia. for people to -- in new hampshire, where we are no longer buying russian vodka, those kinds of grass roots efforts in support of ukrainians are important and we've got to continue that because this is going to be a really tough fight. things are getting worse as putin and his troops do their scorched earth approach to what they're going to do next in the country. >> and just parenthetically, the mayor of munich -- i was in munich also and saw that incredible speech. but the mayor of munich firing what is arguably the world's

greatest conductor, who's now been fired from orchestras all over europe and other russian superstars, who are so close to putin and will not denounce him. senator warner, let me ask you about oil because speaker pelosi has come out in favor of the u.s. banning russian oil imports. about 3% of our supply. we're not hugely reliant on it. other nations are are doing it but it can only add to inflation and we've seen huge spikes there. trrls do you support that some >> absolutely. i've joined bipartisan legislation on this. clearly we -- there are are very legitimate real concerns about the price of gas and inflation. but we ask our european partners to cut off nord stream 2, which will drop the effect of european

prices, german prices directly and they did so. i think we need to do our part as well. i hope that will encourage our other european allies to cut off those energy folks. and the effects on their markets are going to be greater than what happens in the united states. >> and we do need to do that and i certainly support that as well. i know there's hardship on the american people and on everybody who's effected by these high gas prices. but the other thing we ehead to to do is call on our ceos of the major oil companies to stop sitting on production and increase production. they've been sitting on the amount of production because they want to keep the price high. well, the world needs them to respond now as well. they need to do this so that they can support the free world as we're trying to fight this tyrant who is trying to put -- capture the democracies of the world and so, we need all stand together here.

>> i couldn't agree more. the energy companies need to step up. the truth of the matter is the ukrainian people are voting with their lives, saying they embrace democracy, the values of liberal democracy that sometimes i think we and folks in europe take for granted. and we all need step up. business, obviously policy makers and clearly the american people are willing. so, we need see the energy leaders do their part as well. >> senators, i can't thank you enough for being willing to come on together and speak with your great experience, both of you. in all these subjects. thank you so much. >> thank you. >> thank you. and speaking of the civilian suffering in ukraine, families huddled in bomb shelters, praying as explosions rock eastern ukraine. and thousands packing subway stations as they head for are the border. next first-hand accounts of those searching for safety. this is "andrea mitchell reports" on msnbc. this is "andrea mitchell reports" on msnbc.

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you don't have to save the day. you just have to navigate the world so that a foster child isn't doing it solo. you just have to stand up for a kid who isn't fluent in bureaucracy, or maybe not in their own emotions. so show up, however you can, for the foster kids who need it most— at helpfosterchildren.com the chaotic, emotional trip for hundreds of thousands of ukrainians to eastern european countries like poland and romania, includes a stop in the western city of laviv. >> reporter: like many mothers at this shelter, tonia is from the east, where russian air strikes have destroyed school buildings in downtown kharkiv.

neighborhoods reduced to rubble and in kharkiv, the it's driven many to shelter in metd row stations, including children and the elderly. >>m i in the subway and it's terrible how many kids are there. we won't leave as independent normal country. >> every day more people arrive. this baptist seminary is housing dozens of families. >> our thanks to tom for that report. josh letterman joins us from brussels where secretary blinken is heading right now, for emergency meetings on the refugee crisis. we've learned more from french president macron today and president putin himself about how putin sees everything playing out. and his reality is incredibly distorted. and does not bode well for ukraine. he wants to go all the way.

>> reporter: that's exactly right. the that's exactly right, andrea. and by all accounts, this was a difficult phone call with a source describing the hour and a half phone call as pessimistic and not so friendly. which, as you know, in the world of diplomat speak, it's about as dour as diplomats gets. saying putin doubled down on insistence that everything is going just fine in the military operation and that he plans to keep going until he achieves his goal of denazification and demilitarization of ukraine, which we understand is a euphemism for changing the government in kyiv. and putin saying while he's willing to continue with the talks at the belarusian border, if they're stalling for time, he's going to insist on higher demands from them to resolve the conflict. the russians insisting on comments putin just made on

national television that the ukrainians are actually using civilians as human shields and holding foreigners hostage. there's no evidence of either of those and so it speaks to the way the two sides are operating on different realities at this point in time. >> in brussels for those nato meetings. thank you. and we have an nbc news exclusive. bill barr breaking his silence for the first time since resigning as omicron's attorney general. a preview next on andrea mitchell reports. orts

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joining me now is former u.s. attorney barbara mcquaid. so, this legal filing gives us a window into what they're doing. they don't have any prosecutorial ability but they're suggesting they're investigating a possible crime. >> yes, so, it comes in the context, as you said, of rebutting an argument that john eastman's emails are protected by attorney-client privilege. and so, they allege that there is evidence here to provide a good-faith basis that a crime may have occurred. and what's interesting is one, they're saying that out loud. two, they're suggesting a legal theory, which is a crime of an obstruction official proceeding or defraud the united states or both and it collects in one place all of the evidence they have to show that donald trump knew that there was no fraud in the election. and it's an enormous amount of evidence. >> and what kind of evidence

would they need to rely on that to take the case? >> where yes. you really hit on it. this is always the hardest part of any white collar, fraud case, and that is that someone had intent. proving that they knew what they were doing was corrupt or fraudulent is the hard part. you have to look at the totality of the circumstances to draw reasonable inference ares as to what was in someone's mind and there's a jury instruction that says you can't be willfully blind; that is deliberately ignore facts when there's a high probability some other fact is true. and here the evidence is, number one, that the cyber security director of trump told him there is no fraud. william barr told him there's no fraud. his own campaign wrote a memo telling him there was no fraud. the head of the office of national intelligence told him

there was no fraud. and 60 judges, all the legal challenges they filed, failed. and in light of all that evidence, on the other side, there was not one sen tillau of evidence there was fraud. in other words, trump just made it up. you can't just continue to say there was fraud in a complete and utter absence of fraud. at some point i think the justice department has to conclude they could convince a jury that donald trump knew there was no fraud in this election. >> thank you so much and that's a perfect segway for our next story, an exclusive one. former trump attorney general, william barr, who came under fire for intervening in criminal cases in ways favorable to his boss, is for the first time talking about what happened inside the trump white house and what led him to resign. despite trump's baseless claim, barr told the president the justice department uncovered no evidence of widespread voter

fraud that could change the outcome of the election. in the first television interview, he sat down with -- excuse me. since stepping down as head of the justice department, barr tells lester holt what happened when he submitted his resignation. >> and i have told him that all this stuff was. [ bleep] and about election fraud. and it's wrong to be shoveling it out the way his team was and he started asking me about different theories and i had the answers. i was able to tell him this is wrong because of this. >> you're trying to set him straight? >> yes. and he listened. he was obviously getting very angry about this. i said look, i understand you're upset with me. and i'm perfectly happy to tender my resignation and boom. >> he slaps the desk. >> and said accepted. accepted.

and boom, he slapped it again. accept it. go home. don't go back to your office. go home. you're done. >> wow. nbc nightly news anchor, lester holt joins me now. that's such an explosive moment. you're done. go home to the attorney general of the united states. >> he said the president wanted him to investigate the -- what he considered were various cases of fraud and bad voting machines and all that and he says he just wasn't finding it. he spoke to a reporter for the associated press and told him he thought there was no corruption, there was no stealing of the election. the president saw that, learned that barr was in the white house that day, summoned him and this conversation, as told by barr, leads with him walking out believing he is fired. >> incredible. so, what is donald trump saying about all this?

>> he's saying in a statement to nbc news he believes the book is fake. regards to the specific instance, he acknowledges there was a confrontation but says it's he who asked for barr's resignation and he went on to k d scribe barr as lazy and coward. and i should note, this resignation only lasted a short time because it goes on to tell how he gets in the suv, starts to leave and there's a pounding on the car. it's a couple of white house attorneys who were saying come back. we'll hear more about that in our program on sunday. >> wow. i can't wait to see the rest of this. thank you and catch more of lester's exclusive interview with the former attorney general tonight on nightly news and watch it the full interview this sunday, 9:00 eastern on nbc. and we have a sad passing to report today.

are ken, a former white house chief of staffer from ronald reagan and close advisor to nancy reagan over the years, has died at the age of 77. he worked closely with nen national security advisor, colon powell, who became a life-long friend. he played a critical role in destroying the president's credibility and authority after the iran contrascandal and later worked for bush 41 and helped confirm supreme court nominees. always filling every room with laughter. our condolences to his wife, children and the rest of the family. wife, children and the rest of the family have copd, ask your doctor about breztri. breztri gives me better breathing and helps prevent flare-ups. before breztri, i was stuck in the past. i still had bad days, flare-ups which kept me from doing what i love. my doctor said for my copd, it was time for breztri.

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the krem:cracking down on independent russian media. big warning from the state department. and joining me is cofounder of the think tank, silverado policy accelerator. thank you very much. we're seeing macron talk aing at length this morning with putin and putin saying to macron, we're going to take kyiv, change the government. you've been anticipating this. tell us how you think the russian operation that was going on the ground. >> well, putin is fully chited. he cannot pull back. now having suffered really harsh sanctions that have been put in place in russia, he knows he needs to complete the mission and take ukraine. unfortunately, it will mean utter devastation to ukrainian cities. expecting the ukrainian forces to just melt away, there was quite a bit of resistance. now they're pulling back. using artillery, air power to decimate ukrainian cities and

unfofrp intly, kyiv may look like bosnia in a couple of months. of course, it was utter ly destroyed during the war putin launched in the early 2000s. >> do you have any insight into what stalled that convoy? what went wrong for russia? >> they're having a lot of problems with logistics and moving the huge amount of troops is not easy. having talked to our mutual friend, who was part of the invasion of iraq. he said the u.s. army put a lot of effort into traffic management to move the huge number of troops around and seems the russians were unprepare interested it. and they're having issues with equipment, having parked the track vehicles for so long. the tires appear to be rotting. they weren't doing maintenance. you have these huge convoys moving down pretty small roads, two lane roads in some of the cases. if they run out of fuel, it

stalls the entire convoy. >> and what is the significance of russia apparently capturing a key access point to the black sea? brave ukrainians are still there. the soldiers apparently have that. so, the civilians are trying to take on the russian military? >> in the south, the russians have made a lot of progress. we often talk about the stalled assaults in the west and in the north. but in the south, they've taken up to 400 kilometers of territory to the east. they're in mare yoepal to connect the donbas region they've had with crimea. they've also made progress towards odesa. they're in a position to surround odesa in the coming days. in the south in particular, they have resistance but they've been able to overcome it. >> and we're also being told by the state department and we're

certainly seeing it from our correspondents that there's a real crackdown on free media and protesters. you tweeted a picture of swan lake. the significance being that -- well, you tell us. one of the last tv stations, independent stations that was shut down. >> so, swan lake, the ballet was played on a loop in 1991 during the cue wr in the old soviet union. they shut down all news communications on tv channels and just playing swan lake on tv and that's how the russian public at the time knew there was huge turmoil in the country. now this last independent tv station was shut down by authorities and they're playing swan lake in a throwback to that old period 30 years ago. >> i want to ask you about nancy pelosi and the senators all saying we should embargo, we should ban russian oil imports. not a huge amount of oil for the u.s. but significant.

it could have another impact on tightening the market and of course, raising prices. which ultimately does help putin indirectly. what do you think about these -- the spreading oil embargos of russian oil? and i was seeing on cnbc this morning that the market itself is doing that because insurers are not willing to insure their shipments. so, they're not able to ship some of the stuff. >> i think it's a matter of time where not just oil but gas imports get sanctioned. once you see the huge bombardment of cities like kyiv, the political pressure will be too high on the west not to go all the way. and i think russia is rapidly moving towards becoming a new north korea. isolated diplomatically, and the economy will be devastated because of this. >> so, he could topple the government, win on the ground.

in the air, but ultimately, vladimir putin's the loser here and so are the people of russia. of course the people of ukraine are being devastated. >> you can't underestimate the changes taking place in russia right now. having talked to some people on the ground. people are shell shocked. they did not expect the invasion and they're devastated and fearful. there's huge fears across russia that there will be a huge draft, mobilization of forces flown into ukraine. people are trying to figure out how to get their kids out of the country to avoid it. obviously economic pressures are massive and repression is kicking up. we're not yet back to stalin-era reprussian but we're on the path there and i think that's putin's only choice, to keep descent at minimum or he'll get toppled potentially by palace coup. >> thank you so much for your expertise. for it's really invaluable. appreciate it. >> thank you. and 1 million refugees.

the heartbreaking flight, ukrainians fleeing to safety. we'll take you inside their flee to safety. and a small piece of beauty. peenist on the polish border just sitting down at a grand piano and playing as the buses come in. this is "andrea mitchell reports." reports. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

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as of now, more than a million ukrainians have fled their country since the start of russia's invasion, packing their lives, leaving behind their homes not knowing when or if they'll ever return. sky news correspondent john sparks made the journey with some of them and shares their stories. >> reporter: weighty decisions are made in a moment with those no time to think. how do you feel in your heart? >> so bad. >> reporter: the train attendants beg them to step back. bags are hoisted from passenger to passenger, and within a few minutes, the train is full. "don't come in," he begs. some feel shame for leaving their loved ones. others struggle to make sense of it as the train speeds them away from the front lines.

the train stops in towns and villages as we travel through the middle of the night. and on every platform there are people with suitcases trying to get in. the train conductor refuses to open the doors. they arrive to lviv to the sound of air raid sirens, a reminder of everything they left behind. so the majority will continue this journey, moving west into the arms of the european union. on the other side of the border in poland we find kelly cobiella. poland is receiving the largest number of refugees from ukraine. how are conditions on the ground? >> reporter: yeah, more than half a million now, andrea, and it's proving to be quite a challenge to be able to just offer services and take care of all of these people. of course, poland has been braced for a million refugees.

that's what the leadership was saying before the war broke out. and it does look like those numbers are arriving here, half a million in a week is a pretty astounding number. a lot of volunteers are chipping in. there are a number of charities, lcal and otherwise, trying to take care of these people. ordinary polish people are showing up at train stations holding signs saying, i have space for x number of people in my home. you are seeing a lot of these people being absorbed into the community just out of the kindness of strangers' hearts. but as the numbers continue to rise, a lot of the border towns already are getting a little bit squeezed, and people are -- there is a need for people to move farther into the country into other cities, and the other problem we're just beginning to see, i think, is that people are coming here who don't necessarily have family members who are working or living in poland or other european countries. they will need a whole different

kind of support. >> it's heartbreaking. poland and the other eu companies opening their arms as well. that does it for this edition of "andrea mitchell reports." member, follow the show online, on facebook, and on twitter @rich elreports. chuck todd and "meet the press daily" start after this message.

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if it's thursday, a key ukrainian city falls, the russian siege intensifies. zelenskyy speaks out, a massive humanitarian crisis unfolding and officials warn we have yet to see the worst of this. plus, the white house prepares to announce new sanctions against members of putin's inner circle as it seeks $10 billion in emergency aid from congress to help ukraine. the chairman of the senate foreign relations committee joins me ahead. in a new legal filing, the january 6th committee says it has evidence to recommend criminal charges for former president trump as it seeks access to key documents. how will this play out? we'll discuss that as well. welcome to "meet the press daily."