♪♪ hi there, everyone. 4:00 in new york. a dangerous escalation in the russian invasion of ukraine serves as a grave reminder of the threat this war poses to europe and the planet. last night shelling by russian forces and europe's nuclear power plant in southern ukraine sparked a fire and led to fears the world over of a nuclear meltdown. that fire has since been put out and international monitors say there is no sign that any radiation leaked. condemnation of the attack was swift. an adviser to president zelenskyy accused russia of blackmailing the world. the situation led to an emergency meeting of the u.n.

security council where u.s. ambassador to the united nations linda thomas greenfield had this to say. >> by the grace of god the world narrowly avert add nuclear catastrophe last night. the attack putt europe's largest nuclear power at grave risk. it was incredibly reckless and dangerous and it threatened the safety of civilians across ukraine and europe. >> on the ground in ukraine there's fierce fighting. the senior u.s. defense official telling nbc news 92% of the russian forces at the border of ukraine are now inside the country of ukraine. and that while the russian advance into kyiv remains stalled troops are making gains in southern ukraine. in mariupol officials say residents are running out of food an enno running water, no

heat and no electricity. and as it has been for months fueling flurry of diplomacy. an emergency nato meeting top diplomats rejected any possibility of imposing a no-fly zone over ukraine despite increasingly desperate pleas from ukrainian leader. president zelenskyy today speaking from an undisclosed location in kyiv with a message for the west. >> >> translator: i would like to call upon you not to be silent and come out on the streets and support ukraine. support our efforts and support our fight. because if ukraine will not stand, europe will not stand. do not turn the blind eye on this. come out and support ukraine as much as you can. if we win and i'm sure we win this will be the win for the democratic world, the freedom,

the victory of a light over darkness, free doll over slavery and if we win we become as blossoming and europe and europe will be flourishing more than ever. glory to ukraine. >> that's where we start the hour. richard engel spent the day and night reporting from a train station in kyiv where thousands are trying to escape. >> reporter: forces are closer to the city. parents are tethered to children. taking the pets and the grandparents and everyone is heading west. hearing the train announcements and it feels to me like another era. >> most crazy feel when you hear how kids screaming. mothers screaming. so crazy that panic. you see how people so afraid.

>> reporter: been like this all day. there's confusion where the trains are departing from. people waiting here on platform 9. just announcement a few moments ago that the train to the west is leaving from platform 12. now everyone is rushing there. nobody wants to miss it. this train is heading toward lviv in the west and now people are trying to crowd on. not everybody is able to get on. this is the push right up at the door. there's been some people dropping bags. we have seen people holding the babies up in the air. as they're trying to cram as many people possible on to this train. a lot of families we spoke to said they decided this morning to pack up the house, come here

to the station and just head west. >> the human calamity of war. joining the coverage james starvidis is here. a chief international security analyst. also joining us "the new york times" correspondent michael crowley. on set again former top state analyst rick sten gel. the reporting is hauntingly similar to cal perry's reporting and frankly all of the stunning, brilliant reporting that has come out about the human calamity of russia's attack on ukraine. >> yes. it's catastrophic. those images remind you of the scenes of world war ii in 1938

and 1939. people leaving germany and france and belgium. >> on trains. >> on trains. and i think what's so different now and what brings this home and obviously been gigantic refugee crisis in syria but ukraine is a european nation. watching these scenes that echo in our memory that are things that we have seen before. it is very, very painful. i hope it does militarize the world to get to start protesting the things. >> what do you mean? what do you mean? >> i think protests in moscow. protests in paris. protests in berlin. there have been times -- >> to what end? >> to regime change in moscow. >> to heed zelenskyy's call? >> we don't want to say that but that's the goal. we have created coalitions of

nations before. why can't we do that again? >> we are now at a place where i think president biden's accomplish. of rallying the allies and leading what i think three months ago was maybe not quite as cohesive of a posture if you will can't be overstated and we give them their due here every day but there is coming from zelenskyy and coming from the country and coming from the journalism coming out of that country now an impasse. right? there are limits to what we will do. >> yeah. to rick's point, to your point, to richard's point in that train station, turn that film into black and white and suddenly you're on a rocket ride back to the 1930s. you are watching the history channel in realtime.

that is pretty shocking. and i have seen that reporting from richard a couple times and it's heart breaking. the question we need to be asking ourselves in addition to rick's point and to president zelenskyy's point about creating a groundswell of protest i think there are a couple practical aspects to this. one is cyber and protecting ukrainian electric grid. number two is creating the modalities for the ukrainians to fight. they will. we need to flow weapons through lviv. we have a nato border there. putin won't cross a nato border in anger. we need to get the weapons into the hands of the ukrainians. they need to be given the best intelligence available to use

those weapons effectively. and i think without question we're going to have to provide them the means to resist if god forbid ukraine falls. they need a government in exile. let's hope zelenskyy is the person. he turned out to be a charismatic leader. we can do that without putting boots on the ground and without putting a no-fly zone up. those are two lines that would be very dangerous to cross. short of that we ought to be absolutely everything we can practically to help ukraine. >> let me show you the nato secretary-general's comments on the brutality today. >> the russian invasion of ukraine is blatant violation of international law, and we have seen the use of cluster bombs. we have seen reports of use of

other types of weapons which will be in violation of international law. i'll also welcome the decision by the international criminal court to open an investigation into this because we have to make sure that president putin and the president of belarus are held accountable for what they do. this is brutality. this is inhumane. >> it's also, admiral, a stark departure from what we saw in the first two, three days of the war. it's a question i putt to many guests and what is more dangerous to ukraine? a russian operation that in the march to kyiv looks not to be going according to plan but an onslaught that in the video that the world can see is clearly becoming increasingly

indiscriminate and brutal. >> indeed. you have to just respect the nato secretary-general, former prime minister of norway. i know him extremely well. he sails right at you like a viking prow. i have so much respect for the way he's framing this and let's use the word. these are war crimes. look at the footage you are showing. you do not use artillery against residential buildings like that unless you are a war criminal. you don't attempt to destroy nuclear power plants unless you are a war criminal and precisely what the secretary-general is saying. he is correct. international criminal court. let's bring that forward. that becomes part of the public conversation. that rick and i have been talking about a moment ago. this is unconscionable and have got to get that story out even

more dramatically and also figure out how to get the story into russia which is doing everything it can to block these images. to avoid its population seeing what itsd leader is doing to democracy. >> michael, i want to bring you in on that point. the victims of this war are the ukrainians. full stop. and those who have taken to the streets in moscow. do so at great peril. not like as reported a protest on the washington mall. it is different. talk to me about what the united states state department in concert with allies is doing on both fronts. >> well, there's a tricky balance here. the sanctions are clearly imposing a lot of pain on ordinary russians but the west does not want to portray what

they do is as trying to punish the russian people or demonize the russian people. you know, leaders like vladimir putin and specifically including vladimir putin have often tried to cast sanctions against the country in nationalistic terms saying that these foreign governments are making your life miserable, trying to change your political leadership. this is foreign interference. you see that coming out of moscow lsh. the foreign minister lavrov gave an interview a couple days ago saying how the west often talks about not wanting to punish ordinary citizens but the sanctions are hitting regular russians and things are cut off like sports teams and cultural exchanges and then the intelligence chief said that the west is doing nothing less than trying to destroy the russian state but that is the way. quite honestly, punishing if

that's the word millions of regular russians is probably the best and maybe the only way to try to change vladimir putin's behavior. what is unclear to me after having done some reporting on this with my colleague is what exactly the administration determined to be the goal of the sanctions. what they are not saying is that this is explit sitly about trying to engineer a regime change or revolution but, you know, they are also not saying that the sanctions are on the table for a negotiation where for instance you could pull some back and in return for a cease fire in return for a military de-escalation. we have the sanctions out there. there's talk of regime change in moscow and not clear where this is going. putin is trying to turn it to his advantage.

i don't see an end game. diplomatic, militarily, economically, what is the end game? i'm not sure anyone has a clear idea right now. >> do you want to take a stab at that? >> it is a good point. i'm not sure that putin sees an end game there. i agree with the admiral that i don't think he wants to go one initial into a nato country by accident or my design. but the problem is we don't have that good a tool set. sanctions are an imperfect tool and we have to do things to make the situation better. that's why we talked about this the other day. this is something to say for years and years. there's no end game in sight. >> admiral, do you want to take a stab at michael's provocative

set of questions? >> i'm where rick is. there are a lot of cards to be turned over here before we talk about how does it end. i'll give you a rough analog from recent history to think about a bit which is what this reminds me of and that is the balkans in the 1990s. you had disparate groups in what used to be yugoslavia. there's violence on both sides. a lot of differences, as well, obviously, but in the end the international community had to effectively impose solutions that include some territorial changes in order to achieve peace in places like bosnia and croatia and serbia and kosovo and it's an imperfect set of solutions and took a decade or

more to get it all. no quick answers here. i would start mining the diplomacy that helped us get through the balkans as a place to at least start thinking about. >> i guess what's so irreconcilable is the human suffering, the voices ringing through on twitter, on television, from president zelenskyy's undisclosed location in kyiv. some people thought he would leave why clearly not his plan. it is irreconcilable with waiting a decade to resof. michael, i wonder what your sources say at the state department about president zelenskyy and the fighting population are having on the west's enthusiasm for things they have never done before. the swiss joining with sanctions

and if you can go 0 to 100 are we at 80? >> on the front of -- >> sanctions? >> on sanctions? i'm sorry? >> on sanctions. >> yeah. okay. so number one, throughout the administration i have also heard this is the response of the ukrainian people and president zelenskyy played a huge role in the sanctions rollout in a level of sanctions. a lot of sanctions that endsed up being imposed had not been floated before the russian invasion. there was nodding and winking in the run-up of the invasion what consequences putin might suffer and did things that had never been previewed including the sanctions on the russian central bank. from european and washington you hear that was hugely about the

response of the ukrainians and in particular zelenskyy's personal appeals to the west, the heroism, the inspirational role he played. secretary of state blinken said something to the effect this is in 30 years of doing foreign policy the most inspiring moment he can remember. it is a terrible moment and the point is that people were insired around the cause that's difficult for him to remember. having said that the sanctions were stronger than people predicted. germany really blew through the barriers that people expected on nord stream and other things like the planned proposed defense spending and more that could happen and opens the question of oil and energy sanctions. trying to choke russia's energy exports. that is a very fraught subject. doesn't look to me as though the

administration is prepared to go there. i saw secretary blinken in brussels saying that would drive fuel costs up an profit vladimir putin in the short term if you restrict the supply of oil and prices go up and can help putin but some people do tell me and the last thought is only way if you really want to strangle russia's economy and threaten the grip on power you have to clamp down on the energy exports. that would be 100. >> admiral, i would like your thoughts on that and like your thoughts again on the question about whether what nato secretary-general called inhumane and you called war crime and the pictures a ten voices. this is the first i think full fledged land invasion in europe

since world war ii and first to take place in the time of social media. what will press the sort of pedal to the metal if you will to perhaps take that metaphor too far and putt those kind of steps in play? >> to michael's excellent summary of the state of play on the sanctions i would say we are at 8, 8 1/2 out of 10. remaining trade space is where you go in and strangle the economy. oil and gas. i think every one of the videos you are showing takes us close every in that record. in terms of the collateral damage, i spent my life in the military as many, many military officers of the united states trying to avoid collateral damage and not always perfect but to see this is sickening. to anyone who's a military

officer, a military member in combat. this is not who we are as a military. and this is something for which russia must be held accountable ultimately. final thought here. back to how do we solve this and get out of this? another significant problem is look at these pictures. every one of those apartments and fires, the dead ukrainians, all of it creates memories, memories in the living, in the survivors' minds. they become deeply, deeply angry and that will fuel more and more challenge in this region. again, something we saw in the balkans and we're still dealing with a decade or two later. we have a lot of work to do as an international community. >> i think you brought into the

conversation something important that's trauma. the trauma of putting the -- the images of putting a car seat on to a train over your shoulders not sure if the next train takes you where the car seat went. they will stay with the world and the questions of getting to 100 and what else we can do are not questions falling needily along borders or political parties and so i guess i'll press you one last time. we are talking about war crimes. what do you think the sort of state of mind of the russian soldiers is? >> from the intelligence i have seen and the way in which the russian military is kind of stutter stepping into this tells

me this is probably significant number of russian conscripts in it. you have seen the reports of russian soldiers texting back to parents saying we were told we would be welcomed here. this is going to be bubbling in the russian military and the degree to which again we can shine a light back in russia so those consequences move through the russian body politic as stiff and mortified as it is the better the chances of something happening which will change the mind of leadership. final thought here. i would not underestimate the ukrainian spirit. think about this as we wrap this up. every one of those ukrainian shoulders behind him or her on the front lines are children, spouses, parents who are fleeing

desperately to the west. that has a highly motivational effect in combat because on the other side those russians i think the light is going on. they're invaders. they are killers. and they are increasingly going to be held accountable by the world for these actions. >> thank you so much for your contributions every day but especially today. michael and rick, stick around. live from the emergency meeting of nato foreign ministers. state department spokesman ned price back again from brussels with a conversation about this. what america and allies are prepared to do. what we are not prepared to do to counter russian aggression. the aftermath of what might have been an unmitigated disaster. russian shelling damaging europe's largest nuclear power plant in europe. a top adviser on the matters.

then on the ground with those that escaped. people that left. stories from those fleeing the bombardment in ukraine aez the numbers of refugees top 1 million human beings. all those stories and more when we continue after a quick break. stay with us.

i think the terrible expectation is that the suffering we have seen is likely to get worse before it gets better for as long as russia

pursues these methods. >> secretary of state blinken today warning of worse days in ukraine. based on the russian tactics and invasion. that was in brussels today at an emergency meeting of the nato alliance. part of what has been an all hands on deck diplomatic push by the biden administration largely. next week vice president kamala harris will head to eastern europe with a visit to poland and romania. joining us is ned price. what's the latest and what have you heard there? >> we are in brussels for a very simple reason. this is the epicenter of our diplomatic efforts to do two things. to support the people of ukraine as they take on these invading forces with dignity, with courage, with bravery why two, to impose the massive costs and

swift costs that we together with our allies and partners promised before this invasion. the president of the united states likes to say that big nations don't bluff. vladimir putin has learned that the united states was not bluffing. allies and partners were not bluffing. today we have met with the allies and 27 members of the european union. we have met with the g7 and in every single one of those forum we heard unanimity that they are resolved to continue the support and mount the pressure on vladimir putin. >> we had a conversation with michael crowley. covers your boss. about where we are. if you can go to ten are we at eight, eight and a half? what is on the other side between eight and ten if you agree with that assess.

? can you weigh in on that? >> let me tell you what we're doing. we are providing defensive support. we have provided more than a billion dollars worth of security assistance to the partners over the past year. now another $350 million worth of security assistance. it is anti-armor, anti-tank, small arms, munitions. what the ukrainian partners need to defend themselves, to take on this invading russian force. as you know we have spent down a lot of that, $350 million in fact last several days providing millions upon millions of dollars of security assistance each day and today sub mitted a request to congress for another $10 billion and part for additional security assistance.

we also have mounted the profound costs on the russian federation, the economy, the financial system. already look at the consequences of it. the russian stock market is closed for days because they are afraid of capital flight. the ruble is worth less than a penny. putin's war chest, amassed a war chest of $600 billion perhaps expecting to weather sanctions. he never expected these sanctions, these economic measures and because of them that war chest is now largely inaccessible to him. >> can you tell me where the assessment is on who's paying the price of that damage we have inflicted on russia? is it the population? is it the protesters of this war

going out to the street or vladimir putin? >> our sanctions have been first and foremost designed to put pressure on vladimir putin, the foreign minister, the defense minister, the oligarchs that supported him, the cronies those that any way sported this brutal decision. but here's the truth. these measures are strong. they are unprecedented in terms of scale and scope. and so the impacts are going to be far ranging. of course it will have an effect on ordinary russians as they will have an affect on people well beyond russia. the goal has been to minimize the impact on every day russians, those beyond russia and to maximize the impact on vladimir putin. that's why we have gone after the individuals personally.

personally sanctions vladimir putin and the foreign minister. we go after the ill begotten gains of the oligarch class that has amassed billions upon billions of cars. we are going after the residences in capitals around the world. we are exacting a very high price on them and doing everything we can to clearly underline the fact this is not a war that the russian people advocated for or a war that the russian people support and seen that clearly in brave russians facing almost certain arrest taking to the streets in more than 50 cities across russia. they do nothing more than exercising the rights that are universally applicable.

we have seen a trackdown and putin resort back to the playbook to crack down on the citizens. closing down social media and inspected media. trying to control the information environment because he knows not only is the war effort stalling in ukraine losing the propaganda war in russia. >> i want to bring michael crowley into the conversation. we were talking about sanctions before. >> hi, ned. sorry i couldn't be on this trip. i look forward to joining you on the next one. >> next time. >> thank you. on the sanctions, for a story we have up now, one thing we came away feeling is it is not clear what the goal at least to us what the goal of the western sanctions is right now, whether they are as we heard punitive? are they potentially designed to

push vladimir putin out of power? or, is there a scenario in which portions of the sanctions could be traded for concessions by the russians for cease-fire or withdrawal by the troops? i'm not saying it's told to us as u.s. policy but could you describe how you see the goal of the sanctions and things putin could be doing in the short term to get the sanctions off in return for specific steps? >> yeah. it is not up to the united states, the american people to decide who should be in the seat of power in moscow. that ultimately is up to the russian people just as by the way it is not up to vladimir putin to decide who should be in power in kyiv or any other capital around him or anywhere

else in the world. second point, our sanctions are not punitive primarily. they're imposing a high cost on putin and those around him and the goal in imposing these unprecedented measures is to end this brutal conflict. to save lives. so we have made it clear to vladimir putin if he continues to escalate the way he has and we think there's a high probability to escalate we will escalate. the measures will gain momentum. new measures, new authorities will be enacted if vladimir putin doesn't change course. if he does change course, however, our approach will change, too. our goal with all sanctions whether against russia or another country sanctions are not an end and the end, the objective in this case is to bring an end to this brutal

conflict brutalizing the people of ukraine, the country of ukraine so if putin has a change of mind, of heart, if the tactics and strategy change and see concrete signs of de-escalation, russian troops pulling back, diminution of the violence the approach will change. >> ned price, michael crowley, thank you. thank you both for spending time with us, especially you, ned urks staying up late for us. thank you. after the break for, damage to a colossal power plant in ukraine sparking fears of a chernobyl-level concern. from an expert who knows this as well as anybody. we get to talk to that person next. ♪

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four nuclear power plants and 15 reactors. joining us is former director of arms control and nonproliferation and a special adviser of security to then vice president biden and now with global zero. john, tell us how you assessed what most of us watched in horror and terror last night on the tvs. >> i think the first thing i did is try to catch their breath at the shear stupidity that must be on display for somebody to fire at a nuclear power plant. and then very quickly try to gain whatever information i could, including elevated levels of radiation around the plant. there was none and still is none. there are obviously serious concerns about any violation of

the norms and the rules about violence and attacks on nuclear power plant. there's a reason they don't come under fire. they're vulnerable. you could result in a release of radiation or a meltdown like fukushima and affect not just the local population but a global disaster. >> my question is about the russians. in the immediate they're in grave danger participating in the attack why what does it say about putin's war plan? >> there are two scenarios. one is that vladimir putin has ordered the troops not only seize but to damage or attack the nuclear power plants. i don't think that's part of russian war plan. they want power grid, trains and so forth. what is even scarier is troops

not under control and took it to fire on the plant. my organization spent time worried about the conflicts escalating and in war when communication is poor and troops get out beyond the supply lines and the command zones you can have major conflict spiral out of control. it is bad enough that russia threatened to use nuclear weapons. the united states and nato would use the nuclear weapons if necessary and this is a tinderbox, an example of what can go wrong and need to bring the conflict to a close as soon as possible. >> this is from the piece in "the washington post." thursday night's attack showed that russia is incapable of preventing tactical actions that get under control.

forcing putin to end the illegal invasion quickly remains the best way to prevent disaster. that could truly open up a level of risk not seen since the worst days of the cold war. aren't we about here? >> yes. remind me of the saying never attribute to malice that which can be explained by incompetence. i can't understand how this is part of the war plan. and of course, a bunch of stories today about putin having the back against the wall and doubling down and of course what he does. so we need to provide some kind of off ramp. i'm for no war in any circumstances and should be a ways with ukraine and the u.s. combine to offer some way out.

but we haven't seen that. i could tell you what that is but american policymakers don't want to talk about that yet. >> he's the one terrorizing the ukrainian people and unprovoked war and so i think the focus is justifiably on the fight being out by the ukrainian people and the best way is to offer putin a face saving off ramp from the illegal war? >> yes. i don't want to romanticize the ukrainians but they every outnubbed in every weapons group by 10 to 1. the russian weaponry is much more sophisticated. i don't care how brave they are. it is not a fight to win in the long run and to save lives in ukraine and russian lives you have to try to figure out a way that putin can save some face and withdraw and i would hope

that short of a full-on occupation or reintegration of ukraine into russia nobody in the west wants that. >> i want to ask you as someone who knows where all these plants are and what you sort of stay up at night worrying on when you're not riveted by the images of last night. >> i hate to depress everybody what i worry about. >> it is the mood today. >> happy friday, right? what we worry about is that we think that vladimir putin is a -- used to think he was playing three-dimensional chess. i'm confident that they think strategically but we are not the only actors. ukrainians would like to see the west drawn into the conflict and something we have been able to avoid and something that i think putin would like to avoid but it

is possible to see a third actor hack into a communications network or an action that looks like one side or the other is preparing to take a new move against the other and could lead quickly to escalation. i think president biden has thi very clearly, we're not sending american troops. our nuclear weapons are not on the table. we will not allow ukraine to be subjected to this invasion without coming to their aid, and russia, i think, needs to think seriously about where this ends, and they have to take steps to de-escalate as well. >> john, we'll be calling on you early and often. thank you for spending time with us today. after the break for us, a million lives upended, changed forever. because of vladimir putin's war of choice in ukraine. droves of ukrainian refugees, many of them children, still surging westward. what those innocent people are saying about the journey they have taken unexpectedly and how they're bravely and tragically

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a breakthrough eczema treatment. ♪ ♪ ♪a little bit of chicken fried♪ ♪cold beer on a friday night♪ ♪a pair of jeans that fit just right♪ ♪and the radio up well i've seen the sunrise...♪ get 5 boneless wings for $1 with any handcrafted burger. only at applebee's we've been watching the heartbreaking stories from refugees fleeing ukraine as the russian war enters its second week. kelly cobiella has more from the ground in poland, which has taken in already more than 600,000 ukrainian refugees. >> reporter: well, nicole, we're

still seeing just incredibly high numbers of people crossing over the border, particularly here in poland. people numbering the tens of thousands. these are women and children. they've left family members, husband and fathers behind. they are all of them exhausted and traumatized. it's still taking quite a long time to get across the border. it's better, but it's still an incredibly difficult journey for these people. we spoke to one woman who came here with her 6 and 10-year-old children. she said she left simply to save the children, left her husband back in ukraine. and it's also hard to overstate the influence of just the volunteer effort here. it's not like one single ngo or a couple of ngos are organizing this. this is an operation run by tens of thousands of volunteers, people inviting refugees into

their homes and in some cases into their offices. we visited a local company that has turned many of their offices into bedrooms, into homes for 25 refugees. their employees are doing double duty not just doing their day job but also caring for these women and children around the clock and making sure that they help them get to the next city they want to go to or meet up with family in another country. it's an incredible operation happening here on the ground, and the need continues to grow. 99,200 people crossed into the border in poland yesterday, nicole. 25,000 by 7:00 this morning. huge, huge numbers. the united nations now looking long-term, saying that they need to raise about more than a billion dollars just to care for and support these huge numbers of people. nicole?

>> our thanks to kelly cobiella, who's been reporting for us from poland all week long. the next hour of "deadline white house" starts after a very short break. deadline white hoe"us starts after a very short break. every business is on a journey. and along the ride, you'll find many challenges. ♪ your dell technologies advisor can help you find the right tech solutions. so you can stop at nothing for your customers.

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or live chat at calhope.org today. thank you for everything you've done, but this is the war. and in the war, everything needs to be done until the moment that we prevail. we, together, for the sake of security in europe, for the sake of prosperity of europe, we are ready to fight. we will continue fighting. but help us.

>> hi again, everyone, it's 5:00 in new york, midnight in ukraine. that was ukraine's foreign minister pleading for help from allies and as the war in ukraine reaches frightening new levels. russian forces have now taken control of europe's largest nuclear power plant in southeast ukraine. last night, a fire at that plant fueled concerns about the potential catastrophic consequences of nuclear war. the fire was extinguished and luckily triggered no release of radioactive material, according to international monitor. but ukrainian president zelenskyy accused russia of, quote, nuclear terrorism. the rest of the world voiced its condemnation. the u.n. security council held an emergency meeting today in response to the attack on the plant. meanwhile, russians continue their offensive all throughout ukraine. the mayor of maripul said the city has been under merciless

bombardment over the last five days. earlier, nato secretary general jens stoltenberg said nato has seen the use of cluster bombs by russia and they have seen reports of the use of other types of weapons that he says would be in violation of international law. last hour, we learned that vice president kamala harris will visit poland and romania next week to demonstrate the strength of the nato alliance. a senior u.s. defense official tells nbc news that the united states has tracked more than 500 russian missile launches since the start of the war a week ago, averaging roughly a couple dozen a day. in an earlier address to ukrainians and the world, president zelenskyy again called on europe and the west for help. >> i would like to call upon you not to be silent. i would like you to come out on the streets and support ukraine. support our efforts, and support our fight. because if ukraine will not

stand, europe will not stand. do not turn a blind eye on this. come out and support ukraine as much as you can. and if we win, and i'm sure we'll win, this will be the victory for the whole democratic world. this will be the victory of our freedom. this will be the victory of light over darkness. of freedom over slavery. and if we win, we will become as blossoming as europe, and europe will be flourishing more than ever after this magnificent victory. glory to ukraine. >> that's where we start this hour. joining us now, kira rudick, a member of ukraine's parliament on the ground in kyiv preparing for the very real potential of an invasion from russian troops. tell us what has happened today and what you are expecting tomorrow. >> hello, good evening. thank you for having me. so, today is the ninth day of

russia's war with ukraine, and we are quite reasonably thinking of what would come next. first of all, of course, we are ready to protect ourselves and fight for our country. that's why i'm training with my kalishnikov. second, we are preparing for the siege that may happen in kyiv within the next week so we are preparing food, water, other supplies and helping each other so if putin will try to starve us, we will not fail. and this is something that is under our control. to arm ourselves, to be brave, to be able to fight for our country, but there are things that are not under our control, and they started happening recently. well, first of all, is that air force strikes, obviously. every single day, we get at least ten air force strikes in ukrainian capital. and you said yourself, it was

500 missiles that was sent to ukraine land since the beginning of war. can you believe this? it's like 500 rockets going on to our heads. and if i can fight with my rifle, i cannot do anything to protect myself and my family from the rocket that is coming from the skies. that's why we were asking to protect us. that's why we are asking for the no-fly zone over ukraine. the second thing that happened tonight is that putin's troops took over the largest nuclear plant in europe, and before that, they hit a rocket into it, and there was fire there. so, could you believe that we were so close to potential nuclear catastrophe and this is so terrible and this make me really, really, really scared. i'm not scared of russian soldiers. i'm not scared of what's coming if they siege kyiv, but i'm

really scared of something that would happen if the nuclear plant was -- will explode. we have been living near chernobyl for 30 years. we know what the nuclear tragedy means for the world. and believe me, nuclear plant and the radiation, they don't care about if the country is a member of nato or not. they don't care if it's -- who has which passport and who is in european union and who is not. that will be a catastrophe for everybody, and this is why this is so, so, so dramatic right now, because we do believe that putin is crazy. we do believe that he will go about and beyond to get what he wants, and he is not getting what he wants in ukraine. for nine days of the war, he didn't get any major city, plus we are taking back pieces of our land right now. and that's why he's getting angry and angry. and what is the response from the western country right now? so, biden, president biden and

boris johnson, they condemned him, so there was a very angry letter from the u.n., so do -- does anybody think that this will stop him from creating a nuclear catastrophe? he already is doing it while the world is watching and saying, we are very concerned. so, as well as president zelenskyy, i'm calling for support. i'm calling for air force protection. we can call it any kind -- any way. it doesn't really matter if it's called no-fly zone or whatever, but if our allies, if the countries like united states, united kingdom think that the war still didn't start for the whole europe, for the whole world, then this is a wrong perception, because it already concerns everybody. the moment it started touching nuclear power and nuclear plants, it's the whole world's problem right now. putin is crazy. and we don't know what he is going to do, but we know one thing.

he only responds to strength. he only responds to power talk. the rest doesn't work with him. and so, it's either we will be able to fight him, and ukrainians are very good at fighting putin. in nine days, we killed over 10,000 russian soldiers. could you believe this? while they were throwing 500 missiles at us. we were killing them on our soil, and we are very good at doing that and we will continue doing it but we need the protection from the air. there is nothing i can do to protect myself, my team, my city, my country from the air. that is not just in my hands, and that's why we are asking you, please, please, please provide a no-fly zone over ukraine. this is critical. critical for the whole world, because this is the only thing that could stop putin from making huge mistakes that we will all pay for and not only ourselves but our children and grandchildren. >> kira, are you able to convene

and meet and get a sense of what is happening in the whole country? >> yes, we were gathering the day before in ukrainian parliament, and it was a very emotional -- a very emotional gathering because when we planned for it, our intelligence team said, like, absolutely no -- it's like a red alert, no, this is too dangerous, this is -- you will be -- you all will be targeted, et cetera. but we saw that if doctors are doing -- fulfilling their duty, if soldiers are fighting during the war, there is no reason for parliamentaries not to fulfill their duties, so we gathered together in the parliament from the whole country, people from their constituencies traveled with the danger and with all of the issues of war, and we voted for a necessary loss and legislation pieces for our country, and we were singing the national anthem during this time, and we were like one.

and this was probably the most dramatic gathering and -- in ukrainian parliament history. however, it was really beautiful and really touching. >> kira, tell me what the sense is on the ground where there's fighting in the southern part of your country. are ukrainian soldiers coming face-to-face, or are the russians firing from tanks? can you describe what the war is like where the russians have already invaded? >> let me tell you about the south and tell you about kyiv. it's a little bit different but still the same. so, in kyiv, where i'm right now, so, every evening starts with the shelling, so they're throwing missiles at the city, so you hear the siren, you go downstairs, and you hide. and right after the siren and right after the shelling, the russian troops are trying to get in.

it's usually small troops. they need to get into the city, and they need to pack together so they will take controls of the city because this is how the preparation for the siege is looking like, and it's why the resistance seems like my and myself, we need to go out right after the shelling and neutralize the potential threat that is coming. and this is how it looks. it's pretty much partisan war. and on the south, where there are tanks and firing, so, it's a complete mess, and it's like hell in the world. it's extremely scary because it's very loud. the tanks are shooting. the rockets are being fired. nobody feels safe anywhere because you can get, like, accidental bullet from anybody, and there are ukrainian forces that are trying to take back the

kherson and the airport. by the way, we were able to take back the airport, and the russian forces who are trying to keep it all up, and you -- i see what you are showing in the studio, yeah, it looks terrible. it looks like hell on earth, and the worst thing is that it's not only military who are involved there. there are just civilians who didn't choose to be part of it but who are part of it. and who are part of this hell on earth that they will hopefully survive but will definitely never forget. >> kira, the analysis from outside of your country goes something like this. that everyone underestimated the strength of your president and of the ukrainian people. but that said, the russian military is so much bigger and

so much better armed than your country. what are we getting wrong with that analysis? >> there is nothing wrong about that. there was underestimation. putin wanted to take ukraine, he said, in 24, maybe 48 hours. well, watch us. we are standing for nine days, and we will be standing more and more. and again, this is not only because of brave ukrainians but because of the massive international support with finance and military equipment, et cetera, et cetera. and second, we did not underestimate putin's forces. we know that it's a hoard and he will be bringing more and more of them. but the thing is that he underestimated how hard we will fight and that we -- there is a difference between invader and people who are fighting for their country. because we don't get exhausted right now. we know that for us, it's a life

or death situation. and that's why we have much more -- much longer track of the morale and ability to resist. plus we do really hope for support that is coming up, and we do really hope that internally, russia will start to destabilize and collapse. there will be a major -- there will be major protests planned for the sunday afternoon, i think, 2:00 p.m. in all russian cities where people who are against the war, against putin, who don't want to suffer all the economic hells that putin is putting the country through, they are coming out. i don't know how many people would be there. and i really hope that there will be more than enough to inspire the others, and we know it will be super scary to do it in russia where you can get killed only by going on the

protest. however, this is also a time for russian people to stand up for themselves and to see if that's what they want, to have putin as a dictator in their country. so, that's why this is our hope, that the russian people will create a distraction for putin from what's going on in ukraine, that will allow us to buy some time, and we know at war, time is of essence, and it means everything. so, we will not lose the momentum, and we will have enough time for the sanctions to work. maybe nato will change their mind and give us the protection that we need. we have seen this happening with the sanctions and i hope that we will see it happening with the no-fly zone as well. >> kira, let me put up your tweet. you posted a picture of yourself holding a kaleshnikov.

our women will protect our soil the same as the men. go ukraine. have you used it yet? >> yes, we have been training. i can tell you the training is 95% assembling, disassembling, cleaning and learning not to hurt yourself and then it's 5% of firing. but yes, i have -- i am training every day with my resistance crew that is growing and, yeah, i have used it. it's scary. >> let me ask you one question. at 2:00 p.m. on sunday, you expect protests all over russia in multiple cities. are you in communication with russian dissidents, people who don't like what putin has done by going to war in your country? >> well, i wouldn't call it like communication. we are just texting each other, and they are asking for some advice on how to organize the

protests. so, i think that will be last chance for russian people to show their minds and to do something that they would otherwise regret for the rest of their lives, that they didn't stand up when they had to. so, i really do hope that many of them will find strength in their minds, strength in their souls to stand up and say we don't want this war. we don't want to be isolated. we don't want russia to be 19th century country. we want to -- we want progress, and we want putin out. >> kira rudik, thank you so much for spending time with us, for talking to us. please stay safe and please come back and talk to us any time you want. thank you so much. >> appreciate it. after the break, the overwhelming courage on display in ukraine from the citizens like kira who you just heard from who stayed to fight to the

innocent people risking it all, leaving everything behind just to stay alive. the scenes there are inspiring. they are heartbreaking. they are terrifying. plus as russia wages war in ukraine, back home, vladimir putin is cracking down on speech in a huge way. dissent, even bigger. and the people using them to speak truth to power are in danger. later on, provocative new comments from american lawmakers pondering what's to be done with vladimir putin and how far is too far. "deadline white house" continues after a quick break. "deadline white house" continues after a quick break.

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anything you want to stay to anybody, any of your friends back in that other region? >> i want them to stay alive and not to die. >> what do you want to say to the people of lviv that are helping you right now? >> translator: thank you very much. >> i would play that five times if i had the time. increasing evidence of what we talk about every day, the human toll, the human lives, the young lives, the young refugee there with my colleague, nbc's tom, at a school in western ukraine that is housing orphans. orphans. it's been eight days.

there are orphans that have been taken out of the war zone. joining our coverage, john sipher. also joining us, jim townsend, former deputy assistant defense secretary for nato and europe during the obama administration. with me onset is a steady wingman these days, rick stengel, former top state department official and a an msnbc political analyst. john sipher, my question is for you. does putin care when he sees ukrainian orphans on television, or does that make him happy? >> john sipher, we got to fix your audio. we can't hear you. >> i'm sorry about that. >> there we are. start over. >> it wasn't fair to show that before we came on. i was having to wipe my eyes. >> i know. >> but putin doesn't care about that. putin is of a long tradition of russian czars and communist party bosses. he doesn't care about his own people at all, they're just chattel to be used, and he certainly doesn't care about

outsiders, and so no, he's not someone who is going to be changed by emotion or changed by these kind of scenes. he has a goal. he takes great pride in being seen as tough, and he uses sort of threats and intimidation to get his way, and so sadly, those kind of things don't appeal to a man like that. >> john sipher, i'll take your word for it, but does it matter to him that it's turning his own people against him? because this may be the orphan of someone's not distant cousin but nuclear family member. >> oh, yeah. absolutely. you know, every dictator of all their goals they claim to have, their main goal is to stay alive, survival, and they must wake up in the middle of the night every night worrying they're going to end up like ga gaddafi. that's why he invaded ukraine. he can't see a successful democratic western-leaning country on his border that speaks russian because that's a

sign that his terrible economy and dictatorship is not the only way to do things in that part of the world. and so yeah, he fears his own people, absolutely, all dictators do. >> tim, let me bring you into this and ask you just for your assessment of where things are heading. it's obviously late night in kyiv. we don't have our map up. i'll see if we can pull a picture up. but as incompetent and i think rick is describing the invasion as incompetent, for days now, as it's been and as it's looked with that barely moving convoy, there are casualties now, civilian casualties. there are cities burning. in eight days, it has gone from, you know, exquisite european cities in a beautiful country to a war zone. what is your sense of where we're heading? >> well, it's becoming much more brutal than we ever thought we would see and it's only going to get worse, i'm afraid. we see the frustration.

we see the need that putin has to be seen as a success. and a winner. and he's going to pull out all the stops to do that and i think where we're headed, frankly, and after hearing your reports, i'm just more determined. we cannot say any more that, well, ukraine is not in nato, so, you know, we really can't help. i mean, i will say there's a lot of help going into ukraine right now in terms of giving them arms and ammunition, anti-tank, all kinds of military equipment and humanitarian too, but we've got to do something more now, and it's not going to be a nato article v kind of thing but it might have to be some type of coalition of willing. it might have to be some kind of little green men that we have that of course he, putin, famously used in crimea in 2014, but we're going to have to up our game. i tell you, it is delicate. it is very difficult to do that, given his nuclear weapons and not wanting to make this into a

regional and then into a global conflict, that type of thing. but what we've got to do is come up with some clever, creative ways to up our ability to put pressure on him. it's going to have to be more than just sending ammunition. it's got to be something else. i don't know what it is. but i think that's where we're headed. >> well, jim, you ended by saying, i don't know what it is, and i'm of course going to ask you what does that look like, but could you at least give us some buckets? are you talking about intelligence operations? are you talking about cyber? what buckets would you put the possibilities in to do more? >> well, there's definitely an intel bucket there. i think we need to do more in terms of providing targeting and other kinds of information to the ukraine military to help them to make better use of the equipment that they have, and they're doing a pretty good job with what they've got, and i'm sure we are passing them intel, but i'm not sure we're passing them everything that they might need. that's the first thing. the second thing. and again, this is difficult to

talk about, but maybe we need to put some forces into moldova. again, not nato forces, not a battle group like we've done in the baltics but maybe a coalition of the willing of the european countries that will put forces into moldova to make sure he doesn't go in that direction. it's -- we -- i think we probably need to do more in terms of stingers to take care of the aircraft. stingers have their limitations. we're not going to send them patriot missiles and this type of thing, but we need to do more on air defense. and the final thing i would say is the eu was thinking of working with romania and some of the other warsaw pact countries, that they might send some of their aircraft to ukraine, which are the same aircraft that the ukraine air force flies. they decided not to do that. i think we should revisit that. get those aircraft there somehow. my bottom line is, we've got to be more creative than we are right now while we're trying not to provoke him, we're trying to hide behind this article v, and i understand that, i've worked

at nato, but we have got to do a better job than we're doing now. we're in for the long haul, and we just can't sit there and give them ammunition and think that that's enough. >> you know, jim, i want to ask you sort of to explain the strategic underpinnings of what you're saying because i think these conversations are trapped in these narrow confines of, if this, then that. and i think you're inching at a larger strategic question, which is putin is not responding to our restraint, or if he continues to not respond to restraint, then how do we prevent a slaughter of the ukrainian people. he's clearly after the whole of the country, not simply the donbas region, and i wonder if you can tell me if you think those conversations are under way among the leaders of the intelligence agencies or the white house or the defense department. >> i think they must be under way, because i'm not the only

one saying this. this is the first time i've said this, but i'm sure my colleagues in the pentagon are just rolling over at their desks. i think we're -- i think these discussions are taking place, because there's a lot of people saying, for god's sake, you've got to do something here. how can we stand aside and watch this happen? and not do more than we're doing? and i don't want to understate what we're doing. the impact of the sanctions, the providing of the ammunition from almost every nato country providing some type of military hardware to them. i'm concerned that the resupply lines could be cut. that's another area that we need to really focus on, to keep the resupply going. so, i do believe that these discussions are going on, because i think there's a lot of pressure now on western nations to have an answer, at least a better answer than, well, nato's, you know, ukraine is not a member of nato. we've got to have a better answer than that. we've got to be able to show, as

the days go on, that we're able to do other things as well. and maybe, again, it's not as a nato thing. maybe it's a coalition of the willing. maybe it's something else that we might do, and i'm not talking about invading ukraine or this type of thing. but i think -- and some of the offices certainly in the pentagon and other western capitals where you have special forces and others, they might have some ideas that can help us up our game, but i think it's getting tiresome now, i think, for a lot of the people in the west to hear from the governments of all the things that we are doing, legitimately, that we are doing, but i think it's getting -- they're tired of hearing that that's about as good as it's going to get. and again, it's difficult to come up with something that's going to thread the needle, but we need to really be thinking about it, and i do hope we are. >> and john, just from your perch as someone who knows both the region and the vast capabilities and a pretty stunning track record in terms of how this conflict would play out, do you assess that the

intelligence agencies are having conversations about what more we can do right now? >> yes, they definitely are, and i think there's a lot they can do. i mean, putin's a career kgb officer, he understands the importance of covert war because he's been engaged in it against ukraine and us for the last ten years. the thing you mentioned about the russian people. listen, the russian people are now cut off. there's more repression now. they've closed all the media, any independent media, any western media. they are not getting the messages. they are not seeing these videos. they're not hearing zelenskyy speaking in russian to them. one of the things that our covert actors have done for years is be able to get information into closed-off places and that's the kind of thing we need to do to get messages to the russian people, not fake messages and disinformation like he does. but information of real information, so the russian people can make decisions about their future because if anybody's been thrown under the bus here other than ukrainian people, it's the russian people.

russians are the ones that are dying by the hundreds and the thousands in ukraine, that their economy is going to be in shambles for ten years. they're going to be economic and political pariahs around the world, dependent on china. he doesn't care about the russian people, and they have to understand that. >> yeah, rick, i want to bring you in. you have written the book about putin, about russia's reliance on disinformation and propaganda. this is the first war that he has initiated since you've written that book, and i wonder if you could just speak to how effective controlling the information space is to putin inside russia. >> it's very important. but i think he's been losing the information war. i mean, the ukrainians have been much more nimble. i mean, look at zelenskyy. he's a star of social media. putin is sitting 25 feet away from people. >> he looks weak. >> yes. i mean, that old bare-chested putin is gone. i think the ukrainians have realized it's a distributed

network. individuals can tweet. they're doing that. we're watching that. putin is caring about his own domestic audience, and russian audiences, 90% of russians get their news from state sponsored news, and putin is controlling that. one reason he shut down facebook is facebook, in russia, is actually the place where protest happens because the russian facebook is for, you know, for people who support putin. but i want to just foot stomp what john was saying. i don't disagree with jim about creating a coalition of the willing. i've talked about it myself today. but putin doesn't like sanctions. he doesn't like ukraine. he doesn't like us sending stinger missiles. he doesn't like nato. but you know what he really doesn't like? he doesn't like the russian people protesting. that is his great fear. when he went back in 2014 and accused hillary clinton of starting those demonstrations in moscow, he was irate. dictators are toppled by their people. he knows that.

even the sanctions, although it will hurt people around him, that's not what's going get him out of power. what's going to get him out of power is hundreds of thousands of ordinary russians protesting around the country, and that's what he fears the most. >> and i thought one of the most interesting things kira rudik said to us from ukraine's parliament was that she texts. i asked her if she communicates, how she knew about the protests at 2:00 on sunday in russian cities, and she said, we don't communicate, but we text with them. i mean, there are relationships. there are nuclear families that straddle the border between russia and ukraine. >> yes, and it will come back to haunt him is him saying the ukrainians are our brothers and sisters. that's why they're communicating this way. why are you doing this to your brothers and sisters? every russian has a relative in ukraine. >> john sipher, jim townsend, consider yourselves warned and alerted, we will be calling on you early and often in the coming days. thank you so much for being part of our coverage.

rick sticks around. after the break for us, among all the tragedies associated with and ushered in by vladimir putin's war in ukraine, don't forget about what we're talking about. the impact it's having on his own people, journalists, activists and everyone else, now subject to an astonishing new assault on speech and dissent. back with that in just a moment. . back with that in just a moment. i have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis. now, there's skyrizi. ♪ things are getting clearer ♪ ♪ yeah, i feel free ♪ ♪ to bare my skin ♪ ♪ yeah, that's all me ♪ ♪ nothing and me go hand in hand ♪ ♪ nothing on my skin, that's my new plan ♪ ♪ nothing is everything ♪ keep your skin clearer with skyrizi. most who achieved 90% clearer skin at 4 months had lasting clearance through 1 year.

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amidst global condemnation

over the russian war in ukraine, russia has begun to crack down on dissent at home. russian police have already detained more than 8,000 anti-war protesters in that country, according to the independent monitoring site, ovd info, and people are fleeing russia as rumors circulate that the russian government may impose martial law as soon as this weekend. the kremlin is cracking down on journalists in the country, passing a law that makes the spreading of, quote, fake news, which in this case means any bit of journalism that does not toe the kremlin party line, punish able by up to 15 years in prison. the possibility that that law could apply to foreign journalists has led the bbc and bloomberg news and cnn to shutter their operations, at least temporarily, in russia today. joining us now, carlos martinez, program director for the

committee to protect journalists. rick stengel is still here, who knows a whole lot about this space. carlos, first tell me what you understand about these news organizations who have made what is not an unprecedented step but a pretty extraordinary one today. >> yeah, so, organizations are adapting to crackdown we haven't seen in 30 years, so basically, since the invasion of ukraine started, russian authorities began to quickly impose censorship, so we saw journalists being arrested and detained, at the beginning of the war. then government requesting or government authorities requesting news organizations to change language or to take down specific content. the blocking of websites, the trawling of the internet, so basically accessing the news was impossible. so the approval today of a bill that, as you said, creates fines and crimes and penalties for up

to 15 years in prison for basically, as you said, doing journalism, but it's not replicating exactly the kremlin propaganda. so, news organizations are facing with probably the toughest crackdown in 30 years in russia, which was already one of the most worse offenders in the world. >> i want to put up for our viewers because this is a fast-moving story at this hour. the outlets that have been shut down. the bbc russian service, radio liberty, tv rain, facebook, echo of moscow, the moscow times. these are outlets shut down. that is different from the three news organizations that we mentioned at the top of this block that have decided to temporarily halt operations. your thought, rick, if you could give me the analysis. >> so, journalists -- >> sorry. let me bring rick stengel in. sorry, carlos. >> well, the russians have been closing down independent media

for the last 15 years. they have been closing down things like american spaces, which were american libraries. we used to have 35 of them in russia, and they closed them all down during the obama administration. the toughest decision anyone who runs a news organization has ever made, and i used to have to make these decisions is, do you send someone in harm's way? and if they're there, do they want to come home? my first thing is, if they want to come home, get out of moscow, come home, take the first flight. but i think it's a very, very difficult decision to make to close a bureau during a war where information is repressed, where it's absolutely vital to the west. it's vital to the u.s. it's vital for europe to have reporters there. i don't know the things that they know and the threats that they're under. but it's a regrettable decision in the sense that we need that information, and the russian people need that information. >> let me say, you know journalists.

i know journalists. i'm guessing these decisions are coming from people in the security side, not the journalism side. let me turn the question around, though, for both of you. what does this say about the threat that the truth poses to putin? >> well, the truth is the -- is putin's enemy. that's the thing that he's trying to repress. we were talking about that before. that's what dictators always try to repress. that is the thing that could cause regime change, and he doesn't want the russian people to get the truth. he doesn't want people outside of russia to get the truth, and when we close bureaus there, that's helping him do that. >> carlos, i want to pull you back in and i want to ask you for some sort of historical examples of how the truth seeps out. i mean, it seems like the harder putin clamps down, perhaps the more motivated people will be to make sure that the world sees exactly what's happening there. >> so, in these types of situations, we've seen news

organizations being really creative to keep reporting and really extremely challenging conditions. for example, setting up headquarters outside of the country where they're facing repression, like in russia. they keep them inside the country. but also, regimes are being created themselves and basically replicating any ideas and business sustainable opportunities to keep this business or these news organizations running. what we are seeing is russia being very sophisticated and leading the way in cracking down the press, in cracking down new solutions from the press to keep reporting on the very challenging conditions, and what we've seen these last days is another phase. so, we are seeing historic publications like echo of moscow that was -- is an independent publication, shutting down its offices. we are seeing gazeta, we have seen the killing of several of

its journalists that have faced the most daring consequences we can think. like eliminate and remove and some of the articles they have online, not to face the consequences of the -- this really an amendment to the russian penal code. it's really extreme where we've seen. i'm sure we're going to keep seeing creative solutions but as of today, what we're seeing is russia becoming -- russian authorities imposing total censorship. that has terrible consequences for the russian population, first, and for people outside of russia as well. >> let me just -- so people understand what they have done, and i think carlos made the leap that i should have made at the beginning. it's about censorship. it's about propaganda. this is "the new york times" description of this new law, signed today. mr. putin signed a law that effectively criminalizes any public opposition to or

independent news reporting about the war against ukraine. taking effect as soon as saturday, tomorrow, the law could make it a crime to simply call the war a war. the kremlin says it is a special military operation. on social media or in a news article or broadcast. so, i guess my question for you, rick, is, if you don't stand up or send back a news article to london or paris or new york, where you describe the war in ukraine as a, quote, military -- special military operation, they could arrest you? >> well, the one thing that's not clear is, does the law apply to foreign citizens? i mean, technically, no national law would apply to foreign citizens. that's for domestic russian reporters. so, i can understand if you're head of a news organization that, yes, i mean, it's russia. it's an authoritarian state. they'll imprison my guy too. but i'm actually curious about -- with carlos, whether the committee to protect journalists, which i think has been the great organization on the front lines of this for

years and years, that great slogan, journalism is no crime, what is the committee feel about news organizations closing their bureaus? is that something that you support, or is that something that you're against? >> we don't have an opinion on that. we are here to protect journalists, and if they feel the best decision for their journalists and that's a last resort right now, to protect them. we have no opinion. but to give them the best safety advice, protection that we can provide. this is a wartime, so people need to be taking care of themselves first, and if not, we won't have journalists, basically. so, we don't have an opinion on that, but we have definitely an opinion on what's happening in russia, and the exile of journalists from -- russian journalists, the closing of bureaus is a catastrophic situation right now. >> and we should just say again that journalists, by and large,

want to stay where the human calamities are, where the abuses are, so if these decisions are made, i'm certain they're in the security sphere, as carlos suggested. carlos martinez de la serna, we will continue to call on you. thank you for spending time with us today as the story is developing. after the break for us, nine days into russia's invasion, war, if you will, republican lawmakers still can't quite decide on the unified message when it comes to vladimir putin. we'll explain in a moment. n. we'll explain in a moment.

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we have left the door open for months now to be engaged through deescalation. if the escalation occurs. obviously, humanitarian corridors, a cease fire, would all be steps that would be welcomed but no, we are not advocating for killing the leader of a foreign country or regime change, that is not the policy of the united states. >> some response to human yo-yo, lindsey gram, that was white house press secretary jen psaki reacting to the ludicrous tweet from graham last night calling for the killing of a leader of foreign president. the only way this ends is for somebody in russia to take this guy out, let's bring in charlie

sights, chief nbc contributor, if he hasn't done so much damage to the body politic you'd feel sorry for the nature of this herky jerky republican resistance not knowing where to land now after five years of sychophantic conduct now looking for an assassination plot. >> that's lindsey gram, either at your throat or feet, it's time to go back to our roots, present a unified front to the world and they're not prepared to do that. the most important task is for people like lindsey graham to stand up and say they repudiate their party's leader who was the number one enabler of vladimir putin. he needs to say there was no place in his party for someone who has called him a genius and savvy, and by the way, mike

pence is giving a speech tonight and may say that although i doubt i will say donald trump's name, and the second thing they need to do and most important thing, if these republicans are actually serious about having an adult conversation about vladimir putin and the future, they need to say that they will not support the return to the white house of somebody who's record on russia and ukraine has been so corrupt, so inept and so full of appeasement and gravelinging you saw over the weekend, senator tom cotton not ready to do that but this is a real challenge, nicole, i think the republicans are wait to get basically have the debate about who lost ukraine, whatever joe biden does, they're going to criticize. they're going to say, number one, that, you know, it will be sort of a militant isolationism and they're hoping to rally around just blaming biden's weakness, but ultimately,

they're also going to have to answer the question -- are they going to support someone who has made it very clear that he would destroy the one alliance that now stands between europe and vladimir putin which is nato? and this is going to be a fundamental issue and i hope that the forces of democracy are prepared to push back against that as vigorously as they possibly can. >> charlie, i'll just add, here late in the game on a friday, that i don't think anyone should hold their breath and expect the likes of mike pompeyo or ted cruz or the guy with the hand, anything like that, they are hoping putin will interfere in the 2024 election on their behalf. thank you for continuing our coverage, quick break for us. we'll be right back. coverage, quick break for us we'll be right back.

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a huge thanks, coming here a couple days this week to be at the table for me, grateful for you doing that for me. stay free, and thanks to all of you for letting us into your homes during these extraordinary times, we're really grateful, "the beat" with ari melber starts now. >> happy friday, nicole, i hope everyone can enjoy it to a point. welcome to "the beat" tonight we are a tracking an alarming reaction to the nuclear plant in ukraine, also the boosting economy, we have james