word from the u.n., they upped the estimate of refugees to 1.3 million. thank you for watching "msnbc reports." i'm chris jansing. i'll be back here tomorrow at 5:00 a.m. eastern. "velshi" starts right now. good morning. i'm ali velshi. it is 7:00 a.m. in the eastern time zone of the united states from which i normally broadcast but right now, i'm in hungary near the border crossing in ukraine. it's 1:00 in the afternoon here right now and for the past ten days, tens of thousands of people from ukraine have crossed along this border to flee the war. their lives have been reduced to what they're able to carry with them and many are embarking on a journey without knowing for sure what their final destination will be or when they'll be able

to go home, if ever. they're just trying to get out and get as far away from a terrible situation as they can. according to the united nations high commissioner for refugees, more than 1.2 million people have fled from ukraine into neighboring countries and beyond. nearly 145,000 of them have come here to hungary, which has opened its borders to refugees. those numbers are continuing to rise by the hour, even behind me now, refugees are coming in. just a few hours ago, russian and ukrainian officials announced a temporary cease-fire in the southern regions of mariupol to allow for humanitarian corridors so civilians can evacuate to places like this. ukraine says russia has already broke than cease-fire agreement. we're going to continue to discuss the humanitarian crisis later this hour with chris meltzer, high commissioner for refugees. 400 miles from here is the

nuclear power plant located in southeastern ukraine. there are nearly six nuclear -- there are six nuclear reactors on its premises and the largest nuclear power plant in all of europe. thursday night it was attacked by russian forces which now have control of the plant and the region around it. officials say the nuclear crisis has been averted for now although a fire did break out in one building, it was put out, and no increase in radiation levels have been detected so far in the area. as that assault was going on, the ukrainian president, volodymyr zelenskyy pleaded in a video message "europeans, please wake up." he appeared virtually last night at large anti war demonstrations look at this one in cities like prague, throughout eastern europe. zelenskyy and other ukrainian officials will be meeting virtually with u.s. senators this morning. we're monitoring that today and

later on i'll speak with senator tim kaine of virginia. while russia has made some progress in the southern part of ukraine, notably capturing the strategic port city of kherson, their efforts continue to be stymied in other parts. kyiv has suffered plenty of damage but it's still standing. ukraine's military and citizen army continue to put up a fight. today the ukrainian armed forces are reporting that there have been more than 10,000 russian casualties so far. russia, however, has only reported a fraction of that, 498 deaths, and about 1,500 injured in total. nbc cannot verify any of those numbers. molly hunter my colleague joins us on the phone from lviv in western ukraine, where you'd go if you cross this border and went east. molly, tell us what you're hearing about this latest news that there was a cease-fire to allow ukrainians in those areas

controlled by russians to leave, but ukraine is saying russia's already broken that agreement and people should not attempt to leave the areas controlled by russia. >> reporter: hey, ali, that's right. we're making our way to the central railway station in lviv. it's why i'm on the phone with you. we're trying to get a clear signal out. there are so many people in the environment around the train station. that's exactly right. as of two hours ago, we had heard these controlled humanitarian passageways corridors would be started, the civilians were going to start evacuating from the two towns including mariupol, under heavy bombardment from russian forces. an hour ago we got an urgent message from the cityof mariupol, they ask residents to go to shelter, more details of the evacuation will be posted

soon. they are trying to establish a regime of silence and cease-fire and ensure a secure humanitarian border. you had families packing up and going to three locations the city agreed upon with the russian federation that buses would be leaving, heading west to where i am. as you mentioned, i am in lviv. this is the big landing spot for families, for anyone leaving the east of the country heading here. yesterday we were at the train station. you've been at the train station in budapest. it is a much different scene here. we made our way up to a small room, ushered in with just women and children, lots of very young mothers and i want to share with you a woman named olga and 9-year-old daughter sonia spent 24 hours on the train from kharkiv and finally made it

safely here. listen to what she had to say about her hometown. what was kharkiv like yesterday on the day before? we were hearing stories, we saw the pictures but what was it like for you? now we were meeting, everyone we met, every family we met was from eastern cities in ukraine. we expect if the humanitarian corridor gets established when it happens today and coming today we'll see more mothers and children, families like the ones we met. we'll surely keep you posted as the day goes on and whether or not something is agreed on,

something is negotiated whether or not civilians will be able to start leaving mariupol safely. >> reporter: we've been getting them here in hungary. stay safe where you are. molly hunter is in lviv ukraine, a center people are escaping to, from eastern ukraine, some of which is now under russian control and a place people are leaving from to go to hungary and other playing. alina sotnik, adviser to the deputy prime minister of ukraine, former member of the ukrainian parliament, joins us as well from ukraine's capital of kyiv. adviser, thank you for being with us. we appreciate your time this morning. i would like to hear from you what you know about this idea that there are russian-controlled parts of ukraine in which there was an agreement for a cease-fire, so that civilians like those people that molly was talking to are able to get out.

we're now hearing that that is off, that those people are being told stay where you are. there's no cease-fire in place, there's no humanitarian corridor available right now. what do you know about the situation? >> so there was an agreement between russians reached yesterday that people from mariupol will have a chance to move today and that they promised a cease-fire and also the donetsk region. it's not just enough to get our -- [ signal cutting out ] gives the corridor to women and children and they will get a chance -- the moment we started to organize, they just changed

their minds as it happens many times and now we don't have a cease-fire. we don't have a really safe corridor. that's why our government told people that they can't risk their lives so they continue to negotiate. they continue to find a way how to get people out but for this moment, we don't have safe corridors. also very difficult situation with other cities like for example kherson, some cities in the region like bucchia, the russian military don't give us any chance for injured or children and women and this is a main problem and what we are trying to get at least this

approval of humanitarian corridors and also we have active involvement of the red cross because it is a main humanitarian organization to provide opportunities. the next problem, evacuation, we have a lot of towns and small cities and villages which are under russian control and they don't get even basic needs, so they don't have water, for example, this problem is in kherson, and the same problem in mariupol. they don't have even basic products what to eat and we don't have safe corridors to get this to people who need and also this is a matter of negotiations now but we still didn't succeed. it seems like russians, they want to make this humanitarian

catastrophe. they want people really to starve and the situation is very dramatic. i don't know how, but i believe that international community, united nations, united states and of course our partners in european union, they should be involved. they should put pressure on this tyrant and i don't believe that it is possible. people are dying in towns, in cities because they don't have water. they don't have something to eat. it's impossible. i don't believe that we can stop this. >> it is truly devastating to watch, especially on this side, as we meet people who have been escaping from their homes. >> yes. but they at least those people had a chance to escape, you know, and we have a lot of people who are trapped and they

are desperate. they don't know what to do. the government is also desperate because we don't know how to get the minimum approval of green corridors for women and children, and i think the situation is like really devastating, and on the very beginning, you mentioned also nuclear threat. it's true. russians started this nuke year terrorism against not just ukraine, but the whole of europe, because we have areas to, the scenario, what will happen, even one reactor attacked, we will have exposure, so all the west, europe and all northern europe would be under the start of a radiation attack and need to move all the people from this area.

so this is not the war of just russia against ukraine now. it is a war against the whole of europe and -- [ audio cutting out ] >> alina sotnik is the adviser to the deputy prime minister of ukraine. we'll get back in touch with her shortly. joining me is ivo dolder, former ambassador to nato during the obamaed aadministration. ambassador you hear from olena about the difficulty in containing basic issues like not blowing up a nuclear plant or evacuating those people who are in those areas that have now fallen under russian control. one of the things olina was saying they continue to need help from the west. you are a former u.s. ambassador

to nato. nato is on high alert, we're in a nato country now that i'm broadcasting from. what is it nato can do to prevent what we're watching unfold? >> in theory it can intervene directly into the conflict. it has military capabilities and it could in a whole variety of ways the people have been talking about, including what olina said, get involved, including with the no fly zone, but you'd have to understand that that is a decision by nato to go to war against russia. there is no military involvement in this conflict short of declaring de facto if not actually de jure in a fundamental way war against russia. take a no fly zone. in order to make sure russian aircraft and helicopters are not able to fly over the ukrainian

air space you need massive numbers of nato aircraft in order to shoot them down or at least prevent them from coming into the ukrainian air space and in order to defend these aircraft, you'd have to take out the russian air defense system not just in ukraine but also in all the parts of russia that could reach over the skies of ukraine. in effect, that is declaring war. nato has decided, as they have reaffirmed yesterday after an extraordinary foreign minister meeting in brussels that nato is not going to get directly involved. that the purpose of nato here is to defend its members. ukraine is not a member and for the rest to find ways to damage and hurt the russians and vladimir putin and the cronies around him as much as possible through economic sanctions and those kinds of means. it's devastating to see what we're seeing on your screens. it is horrific what the russians are doing, but we have to be clear, this is not because nato isn't doing enough.

it is because the russians have decided to attack unprovoked a neighboring country and frankly, to engage in the kind of warfare that is so brutal, so devastating that people will be held to account down the road. it doesn't help the people of ukraine now. people -- yes, please. >> i want to ask you, ambassador, vladimir putin has said that any of these things that you described aggressive actions as he calls them by nato would be thought of as a declaration of war. he said the cyber attacks would be considered a declaration of war. at what point is nato able to, what is the line, what is the point at which nato can get up to without something that involves war with vladimir putin who has made reference to his nuclear arsenal a couple times in the last week. how far can they go? because the ukrainian president continues to ask for more from nato. >> well, how far they can go is

up to the very border line that separates the nato country from a non-nato country. you're right at that border literally. it does not include ukraine. nato countries individually have decided that they will provide ukraine with the means to defend themselves, weapons, anti aircraft weapons, anti tank weapons, body armor, you name t you can provide that, because that is not the line that would be crossed although vladimir putin may think it's the line, it's not. it is helping ukraine to defend itself. we can provide intelligence information, and i'm sure we are providing intelligence information to help the ukrainians fight as heroically as they are right now against the russians. but actual involvement on military forces or direct nato-forced attack on russian capabilities would be crossing that red line.

>> ivo, thank you for your time this morning, former united states ambassador to nato under president obama, the president of the chicago council on global affairs. unfortunately i feel like we'll need to turn to you several times over the course of the next few days. we appreciate your time. russia's enacted new measures aimed at stifling reporting that goes against the official news in russia. this is "velshi" across from ukraine. shi" across from raine. riders! let your queries be known. yeah, hi. instead of letting passengers wrap their arms around us, could we put little handles on our jackets? -denied. -can you imagine? i want a new nickname. can you guys start calling me snake? no, bryan. -denied. -how about we all get quotes to see if we can save with america's number one motorcycle insurer? approved. cool! hey, if bryan's not gonna be snake,

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i'm ali velshi live in hungary, near the border across from ukraine. that's the border crossing, on the other side of that, lujanka is the nearest city. some people are gathered here, people waiting for their

relatives who are in ukraine to come over. it is unclear, this is not a train station. this is where people come if they're able to get a bus or car or cab or ride to the border. you see cars going in that way. some of them are people waiting to pick people up. aid here, red cross, i saw the hungarian reform church, they're bringing food, trying to get supplies in to their people or get their people out of ukraine who have been working as relief workers. this cross something one of several crossings between ukraine and hungary. 150,000 ukrainians have come to hungary so far because of this russian invasion. i'm joined by clint watts, msnbc national security analyst, a distinguished research fellow at the foreign policy research institute and author of "messing with the enemy: surviving in a social media world of hackers, terrorists, russians and fake news." i know, clint, you have been watching this with great

specificity about what's going on in russia. i think to the outside world it can be confusing. the massive russian army has hit some road blocks inside of ukraine in part because of the resistance being put up by the ukrainian people and civilian military volunteers. on the other hand, they are making some progress. they have taken two major cities and given time, they've got much greater superiority. they've got great superiority over the ukrainian forces. >> that's right, ali. it's really just a balance of time at this point between how long can the ukrainian forces hold out with the aid they are getting. they are getting some humanitarian aid but pair that with the russians making the advance particularly in the south. you look at their units breaking out of crimea, they seem to be performing at a higher level, more traditional of what we expect from armored divisions, taking bridge heads and sealing off the southern coast of

ukraine where they won't have access to the black sea anymore and that would be devastating to ukraine for several reasons. they grow a lot of wheat, they'd not be able to get their economic supplies out even if they grow it. this would be a game changer. aside from that, though, inside russia we need to be watching closely. russians weren't entirely aware of what was going on until monday when sanctions started to hit and every day it's almost like a jenga stack, one more log comes out of that stack and you see companies leaving russia, blocking services and now we're talking about tech companies. it's difficult to know what's going on because things like facebook, other services, twitter is reportedly off line inside russia, more and more difficult to communicate inside russia, more and more difficult to communicate between russia and the rest of the world.

>> some decisions are made by the russian government the way you can describe what's happening in ukraine and the characterization of what russia is doing and that now applies to all media in russia, whether russian-based or not. >> that's right, ali, and i think that's super important. the soviet era, they had fully controlled media, they opened up the world in the 1990s and then came the internet right after so russia at least in this current generation has always had some sort of ability to access and some sort of free speech which was very different from the cold war era, quickly being taken away and ratcheted down and i'm curious how russians will respond after three decades being able to have and access information and be able to access the western economy. it's really both parts that came at the end of the soviet era. money and information, those things are now being taken away. so i'm really, really quite

concerned but also fascinated to see what happens between the activists and the oligarchs inside russia and how this plays out for vladimir putin, if he can't get a swift victory inside ukraine, i think we could be not only worried about kyiv but worried about the fall of moscow as well. >> wow, all right, clint watts, thank you, as always and thanks for all the work that you've been doing, really making a lot of this clear to our viewers. clint watts, msnbc national security analyst, author of "messing with the enemy: you are is vifg in a social media world of hackers, russians, terrorists and fake news." the civil resistance in ukraine is fierce. up next a member of parliament who stayed behind in kyiv to fight for her country.

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as russian forces began to attack the area surrounding kyiv

earlier this week, civilian areas were not spared. my guest lives less than a are the quaer mile away from this apartment building damaged in an attack. instead of fleeing, lisa yasko and other ukrainians stayed behind to fight for their country and stand up against russian aggression. lisa yasko joins me now. lisa, thank you for being with us. tell me about the situation that you and others have chosen to stay there and what you're doing as the russians continue to get closer to kyiv. there's talking about the fact they're looking to encircle kyiv, they are approaching from two directions. >> in kyiv it's a big difference. for example, the apartment where you just showed, it's not possible to be there anymore.

i had to move one place to another, outside of kyiv, because i just need to continue my work and we have our parliament work, reaching lots of foreign colleagues, foreign media, we continue helping with the humanitarian aid and just sitting inside this shelter and waiting when the next explosion comes. of course it's hard, and today my heart is reeling because today for example in the east of ukraine it was announced there will be a humanitarian corridor for mariupol and many people were waiting for that moment. it's five days, they have no water, they have no food, but imagine, once they started evacuation, the shellings continued from the russian side, and actually at this moment, the evacuation is postponed and

completely stopped because putin, they didn't stop attacking civilians, even when the humanitarian corridor was agreed, and it's very hard. we have lots of tragedy and lots of pain right now in every family, but we try to stay strong and to fight 'til the victory of justice and peace. >> tell me, you say this about every family. we've heard from so many people we talked to. tell me about your family and the different ways in which they are trying to fight for ukraine. >> well, my dad is in the center of kyiv. he hardly has any access to food. my grandmother, who is 96 and she's quite an ill person, it's not possible to buy anything. it's through volunteers, it's

not possible to buy even the basic pills like aspirin or pain killers because there are just not available. everything is down. until we get any humanitarian assistance from the border, it takes two or three days, because ukraine is quite big, long queues to the shops, long queues on the roads, lots of tears, very hard to find any accommodation to stay anywhere so people are sleeping in cars, on the floor. sometimes there is no petrol on the way. this is the reality we live in right now. >> what happens if russia, i mean, it's been moving slowly these columns of russian troops headed toward kyiv, on the outskirts. we've seen those attacks, including on your apartment. what happens when they get to kyiv? what will people like you,

resistors, members of parliament, civilians who have taken up arms, what's the plan then? >> there is no going to be any difference in any part of ukraine. we're going to resist and to fight back. we're not going to allow the aggressor to enter our ukraine, even if they manage to ruin so much infrastructure, we are waiting for the moment when we will be there back even in the places that are already ruined. today i actually cried when i heard the words of volodymyr zelenskyy saying that he believes that the time will come very soon when we'll be able to say to the people, come back. it's not dangerous anymore, and it's very heartbreaking and it's not possible not to start crying, because so many people don't have homes anymore. they don't know how they will spend their next hour, the next day. where will they go?

we just follow news and we all are resisting this aggression and we have very big faith that it will be over. the request he is when, but this really depends on that support from the world that we get right now, so that we are not in this fight alone. >> lisa, between now and when it ends one day, people like you, who are staying to fight could die. >> yes, it's possible. we know that the plan of putin is to kill zelenskyy and to replace the government and to imprison or to kill people who are politically very active, but i don't think that's going to work. >> lisa yasko, thank you for joining us this morning, lisa is a member of parliament in ukraine, her building in which she lived in was attacked and bombed. i'm here in hungary, a country that's become a refuge for

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welcome back. ali velshi here from barracks shuran hungary near the border crossing of ukraine behind me. tens of thousands of people

ukraine crossed along this border to flee the war. according to the u.n. high commission for refugees more than 1.3 million people fled ukraine into neighboring countries and beyond. i want to go to my colleague ellison barber in korkhova, poland, 50 miles from the ukrainian city of lviv. ellison, good morning to you or good afternoon where you are. what are you seeing on the ground this morning? poland, of course, getting the large majority of refugees, far more than what we're getting here in hungary, more than 50% of that 1.2 million estimated have fled ukraine and they've gone to where you are in poland. >> reporter: yes. it's staggering. when you look at the people, the faces, you realize really that war, it does not discriminate. we have seen young people, old people, rich people, poor. this is the sixth border crossing that we have been to and it is by far among the most organized.

these guys here making pizza, they are actually just a local business here in poland and they decided to volunteer and come here. they said they made about 800 pizzas, all of them free, yesterday. this center inside, they have some 2,000 cots. we walked through and we looked at just the sea of people who were in there and oftentimes you saw two, three, four people sitting on those cots, families seeming to rotate out time to pause to sleep. there's, this sign down here it rotates through on different languages but it says "welcome to poland. you are safe here." it lists the different available services at this site. it tells people that there is food inside, there is medical medics, if you need any sort of medical attention. there is wifi, and the big thing, there are buses. there is transportation from here to other cities in poland, and also to other countries.

buses here we have seen, we have heard them announcing to people that they are going to berlin, some taking people to prague. we met one woman standing waiting to leave the area and she looked down as i finished talking to her and she pointed to her bags and she said 68 years of life in these three bags. some people for them, they are leaving their country and they hope they can go back, but depending on their age, some of them are coming to terms with the fact they might not ever be able to and it is devastating. you see people coming out here right now, making their way to some of these buses. initially, ali, when we first got here last week, the people we were meeting crossing into poland, they were coming to meet family members or friends who lived in poland. now the people that we're meeting, speaking to, they don't know anyone here. they came here because they had no choice but to flee and where they go next, they don't know. ali? >> ellison, i'm trying to get a

sense, a breakdown of the proportion of people you're running into who have a plan, meaning someone-to-pick them up, some destination to go to, some understanding of how they're going to get there, versus those who are showing up like they were when i was in budapest the other night, no food, no destination, no transportation, no plan but to have gotten out of ukraine. >> the last 48 hours, everyone that we have met, we were at another border crossing yesterday a little further north, every single person falls into the latter category. their only plan was get out of ukraine, get to somewhere safe and where they go next, where they stay for the night, what they do for food, they do not know. a week ago, it was people that were being met by other family members, friends, but now it's people really just forced to leave and the only thing they're focused on is getting somewhere safe and the majority of people we see here, it is mothers with

very young children and they're glad that they're safe. they're glad that they've survived, but the next step, they're really trying to figure it out in real time on the ground, and the polish government volunteer groups, they're doing a lot to try and help but you look at a situation in poland, a couple days ago, there was one day where there were 3,500 people that arrived in warsaw. the polish government set aside about 600 beds to help refugees, 600 beds available, 3,500 people arriving, so the government, they're struggling to keep up with the influx of people, because it is so many and ali, it is happening so very fast. >> despite you're in a nato country and so am i, poland is doing more as a country for the refugees than hungary is, a matter i'll be discussing later in the show. ellison thanks for joining us. ellison barber on the ukrainian border with poland. the u.n. says this is just

the start of the largest refugee crisis in a century. i'll talk about it with a senior spokesperson with the united nations high commission for refugees. first i was in budapest on thursday speak to refugees arriving by train. one woman, marina could not comprehend why this was happening to her country. ening y >> i think absolutely awful situation. without any good ideas. why? we say why? (man 2) definitely higher. (man 1) we're like yodeling high. [yodeling] yo-de-le-he... (man 2) hey, no. uh-uh, don't do that. (man 1) we should go even higher! (man 2) yeah, let's do it. (both) woah! (man 2) i'm good. (man 1) me, too. (man 2) mm-hm. (vo) adventure has a new look. (man 1) let's go lower. (man 2) lower, that sounds good. (vo) discover more in the all-new subaru outback wilderness. love. it's what makes subaru, subaru.

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all right, ali velshi here at the ukrainian border in hungary. russian forces have taken two cities in southern ukraine, we've been reporting, and they announced with ukraine a cease-fire to allow for a humanitarian corridor, so that people could get out of those cities, make their way generally speaking west to poland,

hungary, other countries like that, typically nato countries but some places in hungary. we had been reporting at the top of the show that ukrainian officials have told us that that cease-fire has broken down the humanitarian corridor is closed and that people in those cities should stay where stay with they are. there is no safe passage out. "the associated press" reporting that is the case. that the cease-fire between russia and ukraine as it related to the two cities that russia has taken control of, has been attacking has not been cleared. people are not -- they're being told not to leave those places. however, throughout russia, throughout ukraine, particularly those parts of ukraine near russia and eastern ukraine, the russian invasion continues. the mass exodus is causing a huge refugee crisis for europe. more than 1.3 million ukrainians have fled their homeland.

according to numbers from the ux n. high commission for refugees. the vast majority of these people are women and children. men between the ages of 18 and 60 have been asked or expected to stay and defend the nation. some are getting out but most of the people, including most of the people we've seen have either been women or children or people who are not from ukraine. this one mother encapsulated the emotion felt by almost every parent in ukraine on the run right now. >> translator: it is very hard, she said. we want this war to stop because our kids suffer and we cannot go home. >> according to unicef, the conflict poses a great threat to the well being of the roughly 7.5 million children who call ukraine home and an estimated 500,000 children have already fled to neighboring countries. the map here shows the breakdown of what countries are taking in refugees from ukraine.

55% of them, nearly 650 ukrainians have escaped over the border to poland where we were just visiting a few moments ago with allison barber. about 145,000 or 12% have fled to hungary. 8% finding sanctuary in moldova and 7% from gone to slovakia and 5% to romainio and 4% have gone to russia. the crisis could drive up to 5 million ukrainians from their home when all is said and down. in my brief time here i've met a handful of refugees many afraid for their lives thon of them certain about what the future has in store. but one thing is certain. these refugees will need to rely on the help and compassion of other nations to make it through this crisis. coming up after the break, i'm going to dig further into the situation with chris meltzer a

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this is elodia. she's a recording artist. 1 of 10 million people that comcast has connected to affordable internet in the last 10 years. and this is emmanuel, a future recording artist, and one of the millions of students we're connecting throughout the next 10. through projectup, comcast is committing $1 billion so millions more students, past... and present, can continue to get the tools they need to build a future of unlimited possibilities. all right. i'm ali velshi in hungary on the ukrainian border. i didn't give my photographer enough notice but there is a family that arrived there. they have bags of their stuff. it is remarkable to see entire families literally with only what they could carry, that is the fate about a refugee, you

make choices about what you could take with you and what you have to leave behind. and you only bring the essentials. every refugee i spoke to in budapest said the same thing, the choices they had to make and there you have a family because you can't move around with this stuff. you're dependent on public transportation and the charity of others. it is a humanitarian crisis an that is what we're following. those people are on the hungary an side and the border is over there and the ukraine is on the other side and police are patrolling the area and they are approaching that family. the police have been around here to make sure people aren't hanging around, even though they're trying to get food to refugees, the police are assuring this doesn't become a gathering place like' saw allison barber at in poland. the hungarys have not been -- i want to be cautious, as hospitable as other countries have. i'm joined by chris meltzer for

the high commission for refugees. it is the unhcr on the border of poland and ukraine. the vast majority of people exiting ukraine are choosing to go to poland. chris, thank you for being with us. chris, what is the situation? we've obviously told our viewers the numbers, they're mind-blowing and staggering. we're talking about 1.3 million people. but organizations like yours, and other refugee organizations, are saying this is a fraction of the what we're likely to see. >> yeah, it is true. so you mentioned a figure of 1.3 million. it could be up to 3, 4, even 5 million. but we don't see that yet and it is hard to predict now. the most important thing is to take care of the people. but it is a little relaxed on the border now. we had waiting times of three, sometimes four days, just a couple of days ago. now it is down to ten to 12 hours but it is still bad enough. it is really freezing here.

and a lot of people, as you said, mostly women an children are suffering. >> yeah, it is extremely cold. this is winter in eastern europe. chris, there have been issues, different countries with different policies, in fact we heard from the president of ukraine that he has spoken to a number of countries including poland, the one i'm in is not one of them, hungary, about understandings and deals, some sort of arrangements to take refugees in. what do they look like and where do people like the unhcr come in, at what point do you have to build a tentd camp to accommodate people. >> we don't need to have refugee camps here in the middle of the europe. right now the situation is under control. the government of poland is doing a pretty good job. so so many volunteers from the red cross, from churches, nuns are here, boy scouts and so on

and ordinary people standing at the border talking to totally different unknown people to them. asking them, do you need something, can i drive you to somewhere? do you need accommodation and they help them. we are focusing our work on ukraine because this is the crisis area and we have 120 staffers there doing extraordinary work every day. >> yeah, your absolutely right about that. even here in hungary, it is church organizations, it is the red cross, it is volunteers and individuals who come here to this border crossing where i am with food, somebody just asked me half an our ago, where could i leave food for people. so the people of these countries are doing remarkable job. i want to ask you, chris, about the situation and i spoke to spoke to people in budapest, there are a lot of people in ukraine who are not white. they are settled there and maybe working there. they have had, they say, problems get ago cross the

eastern european borders. what do you know about that and what is being done about that? >> we've heard the first time about that last sunday. and we immediately investigated that because these are really strong allegations and there could be a major problem. we talked to a lot of how we call them third country nationals, most of them are from african countries like nigeria or congo or sudan. some of them told us they have no problem, they were in the country within a few minutes. others had to stay sometimes 12, 24, even 36 hours when they have no documents. what is very important for us is there were no so-called -- so in one was sent back to ukraine, no one was sent back to this awful situation in a war torn country and this is probably the most important point. >> chris, thank you. i will be at another border crossing tomorrow morning and i hope to speak to one