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tv   Yasmin Vossoughian Reports  MSNBC  March 6, 2022 1:00pm-2:00pm PST

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. hi, everybody. i'm yasmin vossoughian. it's 4:00 p.m. in the east, 11:00 p.m. in ukraine. a lot of breaking news to get to this hour. the ukrainian ambassador to the united states making the case for swift and extensive air space aid from western allies. just hours after secretary of state tony blinken confirmed the u.s. is working with poland on potentially backfilling their fighter jets if they decide to supply planes to ukraine. >> we now see that putin retreated and his war criminals retreated to tactics to bomb us, bomb us from the sky. indiscriminately everywhere. so that's why we need the support. so as i said, no-fly zone, whether it's massive supply of anti-air defense, whether it's airplanes, we need all of that.
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>> they need air defense. and also frantic efforts to rescue civilians from the violence coming under attack from russian forces again today with three ukrainians killed in shelling outside of the city, a planned evacuation of mariupol halted for a second consecutive day. amid intense shelling from russian soldiers who are surrounding the city right now. trapped residents have been cut off from food, from electricity and heat for days, as officials there warn of a, quote, humanitarian catastrophe unfolding. nbc news also confirming a short time ago that a tv tower in kharkiv has been damaged in a russian attack. a spokesperson for the rrt concern transmitting station saying their signal is missing and broadcast has been temporarily suspended. also major companies continuing to cut ties with russia. american express, tiktok, now
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netflix announcing their plans to suspend operations, just a short time ago. citing russia's attack on the ukrainian people. they join credit card giants visa, mastercard, pulling business following the call between volodymyr zelenskyy and u.s. lawmakers. we want to begin this hour with a photo. a shocking photo that provides a picture of what is going on with civilians inside ukraine right now. i want to warn you, though, it is graphic. and it is disturbing. a few hours ago, a "new york times" photojournalist on the ground tweeted this picture saying, i witnessed russian troops deliberately targeting civilians fleeing from their lives from the village. at least three members of a family of four were killed in front of me. i'm joined now by that photojournalist who witnessed this event. "new york times'" lindsay
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adario. lindsay, thank you for joining us. what happened? >> you're welcome. i went yesterday i saw these really emotional and incredible images of civilians fleeing from the village as it was under attack, and so i went early this morning. i assumed i would find that similar scene of people sheltering under the bridge and trying to make their way across the damaged bridge to safety. and when i got there, there was artillery, there was shelling happening, but it was a bit off in the distance. and i was standing behind a cement wall. there were ukrainian troops around. they were not firing. they were there basically to help civilians carrying out the elderly, helping carry children, helping people with their luggage as they were fleeing from this ongoing battle. and at some point, mortar rounds
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starting coming in. initially, they started about 200 meters from where we were standing. i assume thad were intentially shelling a position of ukrainian soldiers off in the distance. eventually, the shelling came closer and closer to the line of civilians that i was photographing fleeing. and i thought, it's not possible. i mean, everyone knows that this is the position of the civilians. and within sort of the mortar rounds went back and forth as the russians literally zeroed in, bracketing on the civilians. and a mortar landed about maybe 40 feet from me, not even, literally right between myself and the family that was killed. >> do you know who they were, where they were going? who survived? >> well, naturally, they were fleeing to safety. i mean, i think everyone in erpine who is able to is trying
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to get out. it's been under heavy bombardment, and that bridge was sort of the connection to kyiv for pedestrians. and so they were making their way to what they thought was safety when they were killed. >> talk to me about that bridge. because it seems as if we have seen some stunning pictures of that bridge today on the cover of "the new york times." hundreds, it seems, of people cowering under that bridge for safety after it had been destroyed. the connection that bridge provides. >> yeah, i mean, that bridge, i think what you find in war is that that bridge, like many other sort of small paths that people believe they can take to get out to safety, are the link between wherever that person is or wherever a village is under bombardment to the next village where they think it's safer. that was the case with this bridge.
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it was very clear civilians were using it. it was very clear that was the evacuation path, and there were not people fighting back. they were elderly, they were children. i watched this young girl on a pink puffy coat walk with her family right before that mortar landed next to us. i mean, it was clearly for civilians. >> i know that you do this for your job. but this has got to be incredibly difficult for you, especially seeing the images in person of that family being killed. >> yeah. i mean, this isn't my job. i mean, this is my life, right? i have done this for 20 years. i have covered war for 20 years. you know, we're in a situation where there are a lot of lives being thrown around, a lot of misinformation. i think that we have heard repeatedly that president putin is not targeting civilians.
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and the importance of journalists on the ground here is paramount. it's fundamental to the rest of the world understanding the truth that is happening on the ground. and i have covered war long enough to know that i do not believe anything until i see it, until i can photograph it. this is a case where i watched civilians being targeted. and it's very important that image goes far and wide and every leader who is making decisions about how to proceed should understand what's happening on the ground. >> lindsay adario, thank you for the work that you are doing and for joining us. please stay safe. want to go nuto nbc's matt bradley, who is in ukraine just a little more than 200 miles west of the capital city. matt, good to talk to you once again. these images just incredibly heartbreaking, the image i just showed of that family being killed in front of lindsay's eyes. incredibly concerning, it seems,
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how indiscriminant some of the shelling is, the killing is from russian troops. what options do residents there have at this point? do they feel as if it's only a matter of time before the russians close in? >> yeah, speaking from here, the residents here feel relatively safe. there was an air raid siren just a couple hours ago, and nobody here really seemed to duck for cover at all. which is not to say people here aren't scared. they know that they could be enveloped in the same horrors that lindsay witnessed not so far from where i am here, about 200 miles to the east. this could come. and it could come very soon, and the risk here is that it could come from the north. once the belarusians decide if they want to become involved in this war, alongside their allies in moscow. they could advance straight down the highway and overrun this city very quickly. and that is something that we have heard from various intelligence assessments could happen, and then the civilians
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here would join the exodus we have seen going down highways, heading towards lviv, to the west of where i am. and then trying to get over, trying to get over the border into poland or hungary. this is a very sad journey. we witnessed that when we were traveling across the country last week from the eastern part of the country. so civilians do have the ability for now to try to escape. and as you were mentioning with lindsay, that village, the people were able to try to escape, but it was hard. it's even harder still in cities like mariupol to the southeast where they had that abortive two-day attempt to try to create a humanitarian corridor, and both days it was interrupted. the ukrainians say it was by the russians. the russians say it was my the ukrainians. it seems more likely it was the russians who were shelling that humanitarian corridor. again, it just goes to show, as in so many wars, it is the civilians who are carrying the
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greater burden here. >> all right, nbc's matt bradley, thank you. i'm going to talk to you again at the top of the next hour. >> want to bring in mark, former cia officer and former deputy chief of operations for the europe eurasia center. thank you for joining us. there's a lot of things i want to tick through with you. i want to kind of drill down on vladimir putin, his objective, and his end game. and talk first about the personality assessment of the russian president, right? i know the cia has this guy dialed, or had this guy dialed, but it seems there's reporting over the last two years he has changed significantly during this pandemic. do we have a true personality assessment of the russian president today and his objectives, what makes him tick, today? >> so these personality assessments are really important. just on a routine basis, before
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bilateral meetings, our policymakers want to know everything about who they're meeting with, what their likes, their dislikes are, the degree, if they can speak english, what their leadership style is. but now the stakes are much higher because as you noted, there's some reporting in the press that there's some concern about vladimir putin's mental state. why is this important? it's simply because the degree of pressure that we need to impose on putin is going to be directly related to how we think he's acting. is he a rational actor, is he well? overt and covert support ordinarily can be calibrated, but if he's acting irrationally, if we don't know how he's going to lash out, that becomes problematic. they're dynamic, they change over time, but look, i think there's no doubt you see a different president putin now. he seems paranoid, isolated. so these are the things the intelligence community is going to wrestle with and policymakers are going to take a really good look at what the assessments
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are. >> what about the end game and/or the off ramp? how worried are you we don't necessarily know what putin's end objective is. he knew he had an end game with crimea, with donbas, with syria with the chechens as well. here it seems different. >> you know, i think that we have to take a look at what he says and what he's written. there's no doubt that vladimir putin has telegraphed his desire about ukraine. he doesn't believe it's a country. he believes it's a part of greater russia. we know he's wanted to dominate ukraine for some time. the question is, with the degree of international community's response, is he going to keep going? russia has turned into a pariah state. one thing that's really interesting is there's been this, you know, serious concern, and it's merited, about a confrontation between nato
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forces and russian forces, as we really put the pressure on him. don't forget, back in february of 2018, there was a very celebrated exchange where u.s. special operations forces killed 300 wagner forces in syria, and there was no response from putin. that was four years ago, but we have to look back at that to see how we can both deter and stop putin from his ultimate goal, which is taking ukraine. >> but isn't this more personal to vladimir putin than that was? >> it sure is. there's no doubt about it. so that's an interesting data point. also a data point from four years ago, but you're right, this is much more personal. at the end of the day, this might be a case where there is no off ramp other than putting enough pressure on putin where russians come home in body bags. i know that sounds gruesome. that will be the covert/overt military support from nato, but we might have to bleed russia
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enough to do that along with sanctions that turn russia into north korea, a pariah state. that might be the only way to defeat and deter someone who is hell bent on taking over a country. look, the world watches as we see these awful images of the civilian carnage. so at times we have to confront someone who is kind of going to go down this path where there is no off ramp, and that's going to be the challenge right now. >> mark, thank you. i hope you come back. i have about ten or 12 or 20 more questions for you, and we see this thing going on for quite some time. so please do come back amidst this conflict. thank you for now. >> we're following developments in the ukrainian town of erpine where residents are under fire as they try to flee. >> the dramatic scenes as
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ukrainians try to get out of the besieged town before it is too late. it's still the eat fresh refresh™ and subway's refreshing everything like the new honey mustard rotisserie-style chicken. it's sweet, it's tangy, it's tender, it never misses. you could say it's the steph curry of footlongs. you could, but i'm not gonna. subway keeps refreshing and refreshing and re...
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for the foster kids who need it most— at helpfosterchildren.com standing room only for forgiveness sunday. hundreds pray for the end of putin's war. the priest has been talking about forgiveness, calling it a noble kind of revenge, but he says that doesn't mean that they need to forgive the kremlin or the russian people for the grief that has been brought to this
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country. in the capital kyiv, preparations are also in full gear. regular ukrainians spurred on by their president's call to stay and fight. go on the offensive, you need to go outside, you have to fight, he says in his latest video. the lines of those taking up arms getting longer, and fighters seem to get younger every day. young and old are steadfast in their conviction. >> we know what we are doing. and that's why we will win. >> and every win here counts. ukrainian officials declaring the military had taken down a russian helicopter, and shot down a russian jet just north of the capital. killing one of its pilots. in the city, crowds holding up russia's advances with their bare hands. >> all right, that was erin mclaughlin reporting from ukraine. the ukrainian people are no stranger from being displaced from their homeland while it suffers from outsiders trying to
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overtake it. one ukrainian american knows this well because his family lived through it. the parents of james markowski, who later served in the department of energy, fled ukraine in 1944 for their safety, as world war ii neared its end. james, who is seen here in this photo with his family as a young child, was born in 1945 during the time they were in a displaced persons camp in occupied germany. just a few years later, they emigrated to the united states and built a new life here with the hopes to flourish in a place free from violence. james had a brother who was born in 1950 in the united states, and they were able to experience a true childhood without war surrounding them. decades later, in 2009, after earning multiple degrees and working at the american electric power service corporation, james would be nominated by then-president obama and energy sectitary steven chu to serve as assistant segitary for fossil
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energy. in his remarks to congress, he talked about his parents' plight sxdz this, quote, they would have never dreamed their son would one day be nominated by the president of the united states to serve this great country. i am proud to be a naturalized citizen of the united states of america and humbled by the honor of being here today. he later was confirmed and served in the position through 2010. and james markowski is joining me now. james, great to have you. >> thank you, yasmin, for having me. >> absolutely. those pictures are stunning of your family. it only tells a small part of the story that you and your family experienced. what are you feeling watching these refugees flee ukraine today? >> oh, yasmin, it is just heartbreaking to see the number of people and damage to residential areas, to see the husbands saying good-bye to their wives and children, and
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the children crying. just thank god there's countries bordering western ukraine like poland that are accepting and welcoming these people. it's the kind of deja vu to what my parents, john and mary markowski, as you said, they left in '44, with my sister ann, and that was because there was a fierce partisan fight against the nazis and the russian occupiers at that time. and we were fortunate to live on a farm where we had access to a wagon and a horse and dad left with mom and my sister ann in the middle of the night and basically they thought maybe they would come back, but they sort of went through eastern europe to try to stay away from the fighting. you can imagine it was always bombings and that was always scary. and then they ended up in czechoslovakia, and i was born there, as you mentioned, and we spent three years in a displaced persons camp in germany under
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american control. we were very fortunate we had an aunt that lived in long island, new york, and she sponsored us. so in 1948, we emigrated to the united states, which was a blessing. and ended up in a small town in long island, a one-stoplight town, and that's where i grew up. >> i know that you have family still in ukraine, in lviv. have you been in contact with them? do you know how they're doing? >> yes, yes. actually, hanutia, my mother's sister, and my grandfather on my mother's side, they were part of that partisan revolt, so in the '50s when russia took over lviv, they were basically sent to siberia for a number of years. survived, manutia is 95 years old now, and we are in contact with her granddaughter, nadia, who lives in washington, d.c. with her sister.
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and both hanutia and her daughter olya and her husband are living in the surrounding areas of lviv and so far are doing well, but that depends on how the war progresses. i am just hoping it never reaches lviv. >> james, we thank you for joining us today. we wish you and your family the best and that your aunt remains healthy as she is in lviv, and thank you for sharing your story with us as we watch what's happening in ukraine. thank you. >> thank you, yasmin. >> all right, everybody. an amazing interview from ali velshi. a cancer patient trying to get out of ukraine, and the man driving the way. >> plus, not all refugees getting equal treatment in their escape from ukraine. a look at racism at the border. that's coming up. ♪ birds flyin' high ♪ ♪ you know how i feel ♪ (coughing) ♪ breeze driftin' on by ♪
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place. this is only the next staging post. of the sounds of war aren't lessening. instead, they're getting louder and following them. they're exhausted and spent. and often weeping with relief. or just glad to be alive. >> they're very stressed. tell me quickly, are you all right? >> i'm all right. i was in a car, and we saw this russian. he's driving at us, and we -- >> god save us. >> god save us, yes. >> the russian army is leaving a trail of despair and destruction as it cuts its way through to the capital. aerial footage of another town on the outskirts of kyiv, showed burning vehicles and abandoned
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russian hardware. a stream of ukrainian soldiers emerge from irpin, looking drained of energy and defeated. it looked like it had been a tough battle. >> thank you to sky news for that report. >> so as russia continues its assault on ukraine, millions of refugees are fighting to just stay alive. wondering whether they will find shelter or their next meal or even medical care. my colleague ali velshi spoke with a cancer patient forced to flee her homeland amid the invasion. watch this. >> the issue, i mean, it is, as you said, it's expensive being a refugee. it is mind boggling to imagine the logistics in front of you, where you'll get food and stay, but you're going thou cancer treatment. how do you even thing about what your future looks like in this
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situation? >> struggling times. i hope i will be able to get treatment because that's the final -- i hope it will be the final stop in my fight with cancer. it's already one year. and i hope that this transportation will help me survive, or increase chances as doctors say. so i need to try. i need to try with the help of my friends, my family, because in ukraine, it's impossible to do currently. all hospitals are closed. they are -- they will be for
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wounded or whatever. so only some for people who need it, for example, normally we need one week every day, so you need to stay in hospital. so now, it could be only twice per week in certain hours and you need to book a place for yourself. and to stay in a queue, to wait for the treatment. it's unbearable. >> this can't be easy. yeah. it can't be easy even if you live somewhere, if you live where i am right now, in a hungarian town, to book that kind of treatment, to find the doctors, to get an appointment at the hospitals. do you have -- do you know where you're going to go, or is there somewhere you specifically want to go where at least there is a very good chance you can get this life-saving treatment that
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you need? >> some countries help ukraine, help ukrainian cancer patients to get the treatment. and with the help of my friends, with the help, i hope to meet doctors. and to discuss my future so to discuss -- to discuss offers, and i hope they will be able to help me. there is a certain window when they need to do this, and actually, to be honest, this window is nearly closed for me. so we're on the road, and we do not want to go in next.
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>> and thank you to ali velshi for that. want to go to vice president kamala harris who is in selma, alabama, speaking of ukraine. we're going to try to thurn the sound on because i think we just missed it as we were listening to that excellent interview. we're going to get that sound for you. cut it, and we'll play it for you in the moment. the vice president speaking on the anniversary of bloody sunday in selma, alabama, today, touching on the tragedy we're seeing unfold in ukraine, the war. the invasion from russia. and we'll bring that to you as soon as we get it. want to bring in nbc news correspondent who has been reporting on discrimination and racism africans are facing and experiencing while trying to flee ukraine. thank you for joining us on this. what have you found in your reporting? >> yeah, the reports we're hearing from africans and other refugees of color in ukraine remain simply alarming. just this morning, an indian
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student i spoke with who is still trapped in the country told me she's struggling to access water on the ground, and online, the hashtag africans in ukraine, is home to viral video of at times violent actions of border officials toward africans. africans in ukraine allege racism and discrimination at the country's borders. video posted this week by a nigerian in ukraine and verified by nbc appears to show military officials pointing guns at refugees even as they raise their hands. alexander was there. he says officials at multiple borders turned refugees of color away. >> i don't see you checking passports. i see you checking black people only. >> how would you describe what's happening at the border? >> i don't like racism, but it's racism. >> more distressing and verified
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video shows officials denying black people entry on a train. tensions elsewhere escalating. >> we stay beside the queue for more than two hours pleading for them to include us. >> women and children to be, to cross the borders. they don't allow men. they don't allow men. >> they allow men. >> united nations confirmed tuesday non-european refugees have faced discrimination, after failed attempts to cross, he and others stormed past the border, then were granted legal entry. >> i want people to know that the people are asking for help. he's creating a war crime against africa. >> this reporting is incredible, and it's disturbing to see this happening at the border when people are just trying to seek refuge, to seek safety. what's being done to help them? >> yeah, yasmin, and it is disturbing. we heard from the ukrainian foreign minister, and they did say that africans need, quote,
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equal opportunities to return to their home countries. poland has denounced these allegations of racism. they called it a complete lie. now, some of the students i have kept in contact with since the russian invasion began say they have managed to get out, but at least a few hundred are still known to be trapped in hostiles and universities in the country, and really, during times of war, the standard is all refugees, regardless of nationality, need equal opportunity to seek asylum and find safety, yasmin, and the african union has echoed these sentiments. it's something we have to follow. >> really important piece and reporting there. thank you for bringing it to us. we appreciate it. >> thank you. the latest on the american basketball star being detained. we'll be right back. all they need is a bike and a full tank of gas. their only friend? the open road. i have friends. [ chuckles ] well, he may have friends, but he rides alone. that's jeremy, right there!
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welcome back, everybody. we're continuing to monitor developments in russia's detention of wnba star brittney griner. speaking on instagram, her wife saying please honor our privacy as we continue to work on getting my wife home safely. airport video appearing to show her detention on charges she had cannabis vape cartridges in her luggage and they're serious charges with a penalty up to ten years in prison. >> okay, coming up, ukraine changing its military tactics after the first 11 days of this invasion, their greatest resource so far, ukrainians. ready to continue fighting.
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>> you're not leaving the country. you're staying here? you're staying here. you believe in it. family is just very important. she's my sister and we depend on each other a lot. she's the rock of the family. she's the person who holds everything together. it's a battle, you know. i'm going to be there. keytruda and chemotherapy meant treating my cancer with two different types of medicine. in a clinical trial, keytruda and chemotherapy was proven to help people live longer than chemotherapy alone. keytruda is used to treat more patients with advanced lung cancer than any other immunotherapy. keytruda may be used with certain chemotherapies as your first treatment if you have advanced nonsquamous non-small cell lung cancer and you do not have an abnormal “egfr” or “alk” gene.
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today, the eyes of the world are on ukraine and the brave people who are fighting to protect their country and their democracy. and their bravery is a reminder that freedom and democracy can never be taken for granted. by any of us. >> vice president harris there in selma, alabama, honoring the 57th anniversary of bloody sunday, speaking at the top of
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her dedication about the war in ukraine and the russian invasion of ukraine. this is ahead of her trip to eastern europe on wednesday, i believe, in which she'll be visiting poland and romania, meeting with the leaders there, talking about a coordinated response to the russian invasion, and what more the united states can in fact do. and ukrainian forces, they have put up a fierce fight against russian troops who are reportedly frustrated by the uk yooen military's canasty in recent days. but u.s. intelligence officials warning despite its failures, moscow remains committed to a slow annihilation of ukraine. with me are david rode, msnbc contributor and executor editor of news at the new yorker, and mark, senior adviser of the international security center. welcome to you both. colonel, let me start with you on this one. want to read a bit from "the washington post" about ukraine's renewed military strategy.
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an outgunned but resilient ukrainian military is adopting a two-pronged strategy in the face of a flawed but fierce russian assault, relying on hit and run tactics and the fortification of major cities as vladimir putin's campaign enters a more perilous phase. john spencer who studies urban warfare said ukraine's top objective is to make the war as bloody as possible for russia, as it does not appear putin will withdraw anytime soon, giving up secondary cities may become necessary to allow the ukrainian government to endure in the capital. as long as possible. will this be enough for ukrainians, colonel, to survive? >> well, i think that's an accurate statement of what the ukrainians are trying to do. they need to hold the capital because that's the seat of government and they don't really have a plan for moving that seat of government if it were to fall, that would greatly undermine the resistance. so far, they have been able to do very well.
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the russians seem stalled for an entire week. their tactics of strong points and hit-and-run attacks with the weapons that we have given them seem to be effective combines with russian incompetence and their poor tactical performance. theeffective. so the ukrainians have done quite well and it is attributed to their courage and the tenacity of their people that they did not collapse on the face of this attack. >> what do you make of this new reporting that moscow shifted its focus to a slow annihilation of ukraine? >> well, it is clear that the first phase failed. that was that the russians thought they would be able to overrun ukraine quickly, that they would collapse if attacked simultaneously, violently. that did not happen. so now they have been beefing up their forces along three axises,
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moving slowly, using their fire power and putin has made it clear that his ultimate goal is to take over the entire ukraine. >> talk about this no fly zone. a powerful call from president volodymyr zelenskyy to the west. we know nato committed to, the eu committed to not doing that because it would mean a direct confrontation with russian forces and a world war, and that is not something that the west is willing to risk here. do you think this was the right move? >> i do. it's tragic. it's hard to say this. i covered the war on bosnia where there was a no fly zone over the country, but a no fly zone wasn't enough to stop advances by serb forces in bosnia and massacres that happened. these tactics, the ukrainians
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slowly forcing the russians to lose troops, the longer this goes on, the bigger problem it is for vladimir putin, so i think arming the ukrainians as much as possible, getting marine and tank missiles into the country, drones are effective against these russian convoys are more effective ways to help putin. most importantly -- i'm sorry, to help defeat putin. most importantly there was a record number of russians arrested in protests against the war and russia today. i don't see putin being overthrown quickly. but, again, the more this drags on, the weaker he becomes. if we do create a no fly zone, it fits his false narrative, that this is a nato attack on russia. we don't want to play into that narrative. it's ugly. many ukrainian civilians will die. many ukrainian soldiers. but, you know, if the ukrainians can keep at this and weaken
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russia over time, that is a victory for them. >> so my follow up, david, to that is this. you talk about the weakening domestically inside russia, the protests, the people especially because of these increasing sanctions, how people, the economy are going to be squeezed to the brink. is there also a possibility inside this weakening of vladimir putin losing power inside his own government that he quote, unquote trusts? >> i don't think so. i -- i -- from the conflicts i have covered in bosnia and afghanistan, what tends to happen is one side deludes itself into thinking they're going to win this civil war. almost in all conflicts each side thinks they're going to win quickly, and it doesn't work out that way. i think vladimir putin is deluded. he didn't think ukrainians would
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fight. he didn't think ukrainian nationalism is a real thing. the elite of russia has left. but russia is very divided, like america is, between its urban elite and people in the countryside, so i don't see that happening. i do hope, if this drags on, that there is a diplomatic off ramp, some kind of way that putin can declare victory and pull his forces out slowly once he realizes he's not going to win this quickly. that's what i hoped for, but i think expecting his inner circle to turn on him is very unlikely. >> two ceased fires failed to evacuate people inside cities being shelled and attacked by russians, and the russians are being blamed by the failures of those cease fires. outside of the borders of ukraine, people fleeing ukraine. inside the borders, people continue to die and you cannot
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get people out that have decided to stay while their city is being shelled. how do you figure out a cease fire that can stick a humanitarian way? is that even possible? >> well, certainly it is very difficult. it is not clear why the cease fires collapsed. it might have been intentional on the part of the russians. might have just been battlefield confusion and poor russian command and control, which we have been seeing a lot of. a way to perhaps make these more effective is to get closer coordination between the russians and the ukrainians maybe through the united states which has established this coordination line. something like that might be able to get the two sides to back off a little and leave these corridors open. you know, long-term, peace keepers might be bussed a little bit. that's long term.
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i think in the short term it has to be some coordination on the battlefield. >> is there a sense that that coordination line is not being used right now? >> i'm sure it is being used. i'm not sure that there is enough linkage to the particular city to make it effective for that particular use. >> got it. >> typically, these -- >> all right. thank you so much for joining me this hour. very much appreciate it. by the way, our coverage of the invasion of ukraine continuing ahead with a look at the options for vladimir putin to end this war of aggression. more on the humanitarian crisis. many fled the country already and more are on the way. >> first to hide their tears and then to smile and to say that everything is all right. now you're safe.
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