welcome back thompson bc's continuing coverage of the war in ukraine. i mandy hassan. it's 10 pm on the east coast,

five in the morning in kyiv, at the start of what is they 12 of the russian invasion of ukraine, and a humanitarian catastrophe is unfolding across the country. as russian forces escalate their attacks, and ukrainians mount a stiff resistance. earlier today, residents of a village north of kyiv were caught in chilling by russian forces. eight people were killed in attacks there according to that towns mayor. and in the besieged city of mariupol, efforts to evacuate civilians had to be halted for a second day in a row with ukrainian officials blaming russia for violating a temporary cease-fire put in place our lull residents to leave. a third round of talks between ukraine and russia on safe passage of civilians is set to begin in just a few hours. meanwhile, the russian advance into ukraine appears to have halted, a senior official of the u.s. tells nbc that the convoy appears to be stalled, and there appears to be little movement of russian troops in

the south and east of the ukraine. that's despite the fact that 95% of the troops that russia are mounds in the border are now in the country, according to the u.s. government. meanwhile, ukrainian leaders are pushing for more support for the west including arms, economic support, and the no fly zone. take a listen to the ukrainian ambassador to the u.s. speaking on msnbc earlier today. >> we now see that putin retreated, and his work criminals were treated to tack tasks of bombing us from the sky. in discreetly, everywhere. so, that's where we need the support. as they said, no fly zone, if it's anti or defense, whether it's airplanes, we need all of them. >> although nato nations are rejected the idea of no-fly zone last week, secretary of state anthony blinken said that the western allies are moving towards taking too significant steps on the military front. one, providing fighter just to

ukraine, saying that nato countries have the green light on the matter. and, to, a ban on russian oil, which can affect the russian economy. all this will be a significant shift in the western response, even as the u.s. believes that putin is digging in. take a listen to blinken speaking earlier today. >> vladimir putin has, unfortunately, the capacity with the sheer manpower that he has in ukraine. and the overmatched that he has, he asked ability to keep grinding things down against incredibly resilient and courageous ukrainians. and i think we have to be prepared for this to last for sometime. >> for the nations of europe, the war in ukraine is already spoiled into a refugee crisis of historic proportions. 1.5 million ukrainians have left the country since russia invaded on february 24th, largely women and children in what has been the fastest growing humanitarian crisis on the continent since world war

ii. joining us now i've now from lviv ukraine is nbc's cal perry, and also with us from eastern hungry near ukraine's border, msnbc's alley vote she. cal, let's start with you, another broken temporary cease-fire today. the situation on the ground appears to be more desperate. >> absolutely, despite by the day, and some of these places like rakhiv we are now saying into the fourth and fifth day of heavy shelling where civilians are trapped in basements, unable to move or get out, there's no power, or heat, or water, and that's going on and dozens of cities across the country. it's why the conversation you are having is being had here by the ukrainian government. it's why the president today is laying the blame on western nations for the bombing of the cities, because as he says, he needs more firepower. specifically, he needs more jets, take a listen to what he said today. >> in the first ten days of

this conflict, the ukrainian military says they've shot down 40 russian fighter jets, and 39 helicopters. we know that neither side controls their space, and the fear that exists here on the ground, especially from those who have fled and left flat relievers behind, especially in those black sea coastal cities, is that the russians are showing a willingness to indiscriminately bomb civilian areas. or to specifically target civilians. which is what we saw today. so there is this fear in this country that we saw in aleppo,

for example, with the russian air force unchecked, no-fly zone was an existence. they slowly pounded that city into rubble. that is what people here are worried about. that is why there's this discussion of the no fly zone, because russians have shown a willingness to do this and civilian areas in the past. they've shown a willingness to bomb hospitals, that's why the hospitals here do not want to be located, they don't want their names but up. the awareness of that is pretty stunning here. >> and, cal, one of the most incredible images we've seen today is this photo of hundreds of people under a bridge destroyed in a russian airstrike. we are seeing ukrainians facing extraordinary circumstances. what are you hearing from people in lviv about where they go next? what they do? how they survive? >> let's pull the curtain back a little bit, cnn was at that sites yesterday doing a walk and talk. just a reporter talking to civilians there. so, the russians knew that there were civilians at that

site. the world knew there were civilians under that bridge. and today, they hit it. here in the city of lviv, you have, 150 miles from kyiv, this is the heritage city. there are these historic statues and the city. i like i said, we haven't had one strike here, but the statues are being wrapped up. and they're being prepared to move out, because people just don't understand what the limits are that putin is willing to go. so, the idea that he comes here just 50 miles from border with poland, border with the european union, border with nato, doesn't seem completely enough out. >> yeah, indeed, ali, what are conditions like on the ground in hungary were a lot of those ukrainians are fleeing to? >> first of, all its colds, this is winter. it's about 27 degrees right now, for those missing in celsius, that is well below zero. these people are coming here, and just like cal said, they

don't know the limits are, so they've left. we know wars terrible, but there are even rules and war. and killing civilians is out of bounds. bombing hospitals is a work rhyme. so people have left. they said, we don't know what to do. i spoke to people from the done bass region, and eastern ukraine. i spoken to people who come from kharkiv. they have left their families behind, their off cell service or power or water and some of these places. they don't know their families are alive because they're seeing imagery. i was interviewing two young women today, and they happen to see the ipad on which we are broadcasting msnbc, so i can see it while i was anchoring, and they saw these images of this destruction. and their hearts were breaking as they were watching it, because they didn't know is that bad. they had run now. but i also saw was a gentleman who had come. he was a deputy mayor of a little town of hungry, but not near where i am. 20 and 50 kilometers from here. he has shown up to give

assistance, to just give people some aides, some food. he came with the van full of stuff. i had a little conversation with them, and i will say, and all of these coldness, it was heartwarming. listen to what he told me. >> it's a really hard situation. it's a foreign country. maybe the house is already bond, and it's a physical short. and it's hard to speak a lot with them, we don't have time. you feel that you don't have time here to solve the whole situation. you have to take care of them, and send them to budapest and organize our accommodation for them. but, i heard a lot of stories. >> you came literally to drop things off and -- this is a nice day. >> so, mehdi, the other night i

was and budapest train station, a woman got off the train and she couldn't believe she was in kharkiv. she asked, why are the bombs coming down i don't understand what's going on and i asked her, what do you want the world to do? and she responded, i need transportation. so to a lot of these people, there's this whole discussion that we're having about peace talks and cease-fires and no-fly zones but these people are just desperate, they need a place to live, they need food to eat, they need a roof over their head and winter, in eastern europe. >> ali, this is a very different hungry that turned away syrian refugees. this is a much more hospitable hungary to ukrainian refugees. >> yeah, this is not a place that has a fantastic record with immigration. then. they've even done these openings of these borders under some duress, when the europeans made a deal that they're gonna give temporary protective status to a number of these people, meaning a visa, the ability to work for sometime,

hungry said they hadn't agreed to it. suddenly, they agreed to it. but hungary is lagging a little bit. it's not poland where they're sort of ahead of this thing. but hungary has, as you, know flipped backwards on the democracy index, it's got a fairly right wing government. it's got a lot of issues with this. they're doing better than they were doing with the syrians but it's not a perfect grade, by any stretch. the hungarian people whom i have met have been said fantastic about this. but that's not the government. >> we will have to leave it there. cal perry in lviv and ali velshi and hungry. thanks for starting us off tonight. i appreciate it. joining our conversation now is npr's national security correspondent greg mary. greg, thanks for coming on the show tonight. talks between russia and ukraine resume today, or monday in ukraine. is there any hope for a progress on a cease-fire? >> it really doesn't look promising. they've had two rounds so far. they said there was a cease fire in place. and then a civilians try to

move out, the immediately fell apart. i think the best-case scenario is there will be something very temporary that would allow some civilians to get out. but in terms of the broader issue of trying to stop the shooting for an extended period, or resolving this, i just don't see that being in the cards right now. >> let's talk about the possibility of a ban in port oil import. what are you hearing about diplomacy on this, legislation on this front? nancy pelosi has talked about possible legislation in the coming days. >> just in the last hour so, she said that congress will look at legislation that will ban russian energy imports. this would be a really big deal. the u.s. does import some russian oil, it's even more important to europe. this would have a lasting impact, it's a huge portion of russia's budget. if this is done, it could have all sorts of effects.

obviously, it could spike energy prices, it could put the international energy market into connections. so we don't know how it's gonna play out here. there will be some resistance, certainly, in some quarters. but that is clearly on the table. pelosi said they will talk about banning russian energy and also a ten billion dollar package to assist ukraine economically. so i think the things we are seeing in terms of sanctions in terms of economic support, this will have -- it is continuing to evolve and a lot of it requires getting the europeans and the americans on the same page. they've done pretty well at moving together in lockstep. and i think that will be the challenge on energy sites as well. >> you have a possible oil ban, energy sanction, you have other wide-ranging sanctions. we have businesses, corporations fleeing russia. american express, netflix, the

latest businesses to shut down their operations in russia. the new york times reporting now that the white house may be concerned, quote, the avalanche of sections directed on moscow which have gained speed faster than imagined is cornering president putin and may prompt him to lash out, perhaps expanding the conflict beyond ukraine. that is a very real possibility, is it not? because it's all very well saying, well we've isolated russia, we've turned it into a isolated kingdom. but this is a country where a nationalism paranoid leader, they may not react well to this. >> absolutely. putin is in the corner. i don't think he's going to back down. i think he's going to lash out. now that said, he's having real trouble with his military in ukraine, making progress, getting control of that country. so i think the likelihood that he will be able to act beyond ukraine, when it looks to be fully stretched in ukraine, the pentagon said today 95% of the

forces he had on the border before the war are now involved in fighting. he doesn't have spare capacity, if he does try to occupy ukraine, take control of the cities, that will take even more manpower. so he won't have the resources to do other activity, but backed into a corner, and if the campaign is not doing well, we can certainly see a massive escalation in the bombing. the russian default position is to bomb cities into rubble and bomb the rubble. >> one quick last question for you, greg, this is just breaking in the last few hours. the new york times reporting that the u.s. and its allies have sent more than 17,000 anti tack weapons in poland and romania in less than a week, in a quote, clandestine cyber corps. i would point of our arming of ukraine, which everyone supports, forget no-fly zone, we have to at least supports the -- iowa point does russia say,

this is you being participant in this war? >> i think vladimir putin thinks that already. and the u.s. and its allies have been able to do this quite well, the western border of ukraine has been open, but wonders if the russians are going to try to cut the flow off. the flow of the weapons, the javelin weapons, but it's not clear if that route will stay open and how putin will react to that. >> greg, we will have to leave you there. thank you so much for your analysis and reporting tonight. i appreciate it. after the break, ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy's call to cry for a no fly zone over ukraine. at the u.s. is saying. no but they're so much at stake for the u.s., for the rest of the world, and of course, for ukraine. we will debate that next. and later in the show, how oil factors into all of this as americans start paying more for gasoline. the lanes the biden administration is willing to go to counter the russian

shortfall. plus, more from the front lines. the latest from on the ground in ukraine, including what is happening to the people who are trying to escape. >> what will you do long term? >> i don't know. i just wanted to escape, to help my kids. t help my kids allergies don't have to be scary. spraying flonase daily stops your body from overreacting to allergens all season long. psst! psst! flonase all good. every business is on a journey. and along the ride, you'll find many challenges. ♪ your dell technologies advisor can help you find the right tech solutions. so you can stop at nothing for your customers. certified turbocharger, suspension and fuel injection. translation: certified goosebumps. certified from headlamp to tailpipe. that's certified head turns.

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ray clear out one thing. all as well, which is where non going to put the united states in direct conflict with russia. not have american planes flying against russian planes. our soldiers not on the ground in ukraine. because, for everything we're doing for ukraine, the president also has a responsibility to not get us into a direct conflict, a direct war with russia, a nuclear power. and risk aware that expands even beyond ukraine, to europe. that's clearly not our interest. well we're trying to do is and

this war in ukraine, not start a larger one. >> that was u.s. secretary of state anthony blinken this morning on meet the press. we threw eight that the u.s. will not implement a no-fly zone in ukraine, despite repeated pleas from president the landscape to do so. present by then a large majority of congress have been on the record about the risks a no-fly zone brings. but, that is in stark contrast to a recent poll of the american public. a broad majority, some 74%, believe that the u.s. and nato should impose a no fly zone over ukraine, according to a reuters poll. then again, i'm not sure how many of those respondents could define, or explain what a no-fly zone involves, which is shooting down russian aircraft. evelyn farkas is the former secretary of defense for eurasia in the obama administration, thank you so much for coming on the show tonight. evelyn, you've spoken out in recent days in favor of a no fly zone over ukraine, even

though everyone from anthony blinken, the british prime minister boris johnson, the republican senator marco rubio spoken out against this idea of having to shoot down russian aircraft. rubio said this morning, quote, emmy starting world war iii. >> i think in favor might be a little bit strong. what i'm trying to say is, we should not take it off the table. and frankly, i don't think our president, or any of the partner countries, allied countries, should be telling the russians what we will do. let's tell them what we will do. and we need to find a way to provide better air protection for the ukrainians. we need to weigh the risk that we might come into some kind of conflict with the russians, against the humanitarian disaster that's unfolding, and is going to get worse. the international community, including the united states, has a responsibility to protect, under un law.

law, if you can call a law, it's hard to enforce. but under the yuan conventions, we have a responsibility. we can't sit by wilder civilians are pummeled. we know russians will do this, they've done a recently in syria. even cease-fires de vynck. i've been hoping that maybe there might be a way to have a cease fire within eric over. but i don't want to take anything off the table. the other thing i want to remind you is, most, usually when there are limits, they have the party that is weaker and vulnerable. when we had a arms embargo and the 90s, had heard the bosnian muslims, because they don't have arms. but the croatians and others did. >> is that a problem, though, understand where you're coming from, with a humanitarian disaster. there's a reason 74% of americans who are in favor of this, they all understand this point. but doesn't it need to stop the disaster afterward over the

global humanitarian saratoga possible nuclear conflict. vladimir putin made it explicit that a no-fly zone would be a threat of war against russia. an expert said she thinks putin will use nukes if he feels he has to. are we risking nuclear war by talking about a no-fly zone, which is itself a euphemism for an aerial combat zone with russian aircraft? putin already put his forces on high alert in the third day of this conflict. >> i'm not really sure was that high alert means, i don't think putin will use strategic nuclear weapons, meaning intercontinental ballistic missiles to the united states. what is under military doctrine is a low threshold freezing tactical nuclear weapons. it's absolutely appalling that they would even consider doing this. they would do it as a way to threaten us, and get us out of this war entirely. and i understand the risks, and understand where president biden is coming from. but i think we need to be really careful, and we don't

know what's unfolding. vladimir putin really is on the level mentally within adolf hitler. and the only thing that will stop him is being stopped. so we have to stop him somehow, either by getting the russian people to rise up and demonstrate and pressure him out of office. pressure the security people around him so that the few people in his inner circle try to replace some. or, we have to use a military force, which we are providing to the ukrainians to beat him on the battlefield. i just don't want to take it off the table entirely. >> i, mean the problem is if he is hitler, we can argue about this analogy another day, then it's more dangerous that he has no clear weapons. we should perhaps be more cautious. and we talk about something that administration wants to do. something about administration says i want to do is have poland and slovakia in using european countries transfer some of their older, fighter

jets to ukraine for ukrainian pilots to fly. why do we think it's taking so long to do that? >> well, from my time working though bomb administration, and spending many meetings in the situation room. the lawyers have to examine these issues left to right and center. and the end of the day, we want to limit the risk. we will come into some kind of escalation with the russians. there's also, lots of paperwork involved when we are transferring military -- and the other countries don't want to give away the weapons that they may need, because, again, if putin guesses when ukraine, he's going to start and challenge other countries in the region. potentially including nato countries. it doesn't sound -- >> just before enough time, it's an interesting point. you said that if we allow him ukraine to get his way, then there will be other countries. but doesn't the ukraine war, at least so far, sure that the

russian force is inept. is he going to another country if he is having a struggle? >> you make a good point, but with his limited amount of force, look at much destruction is causing. look how much time and energy that he's captured. look what he's done in syria. i hear we are saying, he can't win, but i think your guest said, no one can win. >> and then ficus, we hope not, but thank you for your analysis. thank you for your time, to. >> thank you. >> after the break, complicated questions about oil, given the russian shortfall. what is a biden administration willing to do? and with whom, to lower gas prices here at home, that's next. that' next next switch is happening across the country. small businesses are fed up with big bills and 5g maps that are mostly gaps— they're switching to t-mobile for business and getting more 5g bars in more places.

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the average more than four dollar gallon nationwide, that's the highest surge since 2008. obviously, that something that biden administration is keenly aware of, not happy about. what are the options? one possible plan, at trip to saudi arabia and the spring. it would be in the effort to convince the kingdom to pump more oil so we don't have to rely more russian oil. but their tensions to take into account, begging the question, will it be worth it? is it the right course of action? joining us now is washington post reporter john hudson. john, you're well plugged in on all of this. provide us and our viewers with your latest reporting here, the tensions between the united states and saudi arabia, saudi arabia, of course, hasn't pretty good relations of russia. and i find the whole thing odd that we will send our president to saudi arabia so --

>> as you know, this would represent significant change of where this administration began when biden made very tough remarks about saudi arabia. very tough remarks, a chip saying very clearly in declassifying of finding saying that the united states believes that the crown prince, mohammed bin salman, was responsible for the murder of jamal khashoggi. so this is the reality, they find themselves in a significant pinch where the gas prices are high, as we mentioned. and they want to do something about it. they see it as a significant political vulnerability. unfortunately, when you talk about the countries that have the world's largest oil and gas reserves, these are not countries that necessarily have the most glowing rankings on the freedom house index, or other source carrot agrees to judge a country's human rights. so when you have seen is the

administration made trips from senior officials and -- to saudi arabia to try to improve relations. the saudis felt very offended at the way the administration treated them at the outset. and you have seen some gifts, some carrots that the administration has thrown towards the saudis. most recently, you saw new sanctions on the houthis related to the civil war in yemen. these are sanctions that some of the human rights organizations in aid organizations worry that it could have an impact on the situation in yemen. so that's why these were taken before. but the administration did report, and part of that, officials told me, is getting the relationship better and to a place where the ultimate goal of the administration is increasing oil output, reducing the pressures of the pump that the administration has faced. >> as you say, it's been a sea

change. i'm old enough to remember when biden said that he would turn saudi arabia into a pariah. not at all right now. but it would be intriguing to see if the administration would get saudi arabia to act as a substitute for russia. because we know saudi has good relations with russia. it wasn't too long ago that mbs and vladimir putin were going viral doing high fives at the international summit. so there it is. there is the clip. so we'll be intriguing to see if they can peel mbs away from putin. but it's not just mbs. you've been reporting on the united states also trying to turn another country away from the russians, a very unlikely ally compared to saudi arabia, which is one as well. i want to read from what you said, the trip is the highest level u.s. visit to the socialist state in years and comes as the united states is seeking to isolate russia from

its invasion of ukraine. venezuela, the kremlin's most important ally in south america, used to be a significant supplier of crude to the united states before experts were hobbled by domestic must management crippling -- the trip comes just days after maduro and russian president vladimir putin spoke over the phone about boosting the pressure between the countries. there's an irony, there, john, not only you go to a country where we've been attacking, criticizing, trying to isolate for many years, but that's a country we were sanctioning, and now, in order to maintain sanctions on russia, we may want to soften our relationship with venezuela. this is getting complicated. >> it's a fascinating geopolitical landscape. this is really grand strategy, maybe not at its finest, but it's grand strategy plan before our eyes. what is fascinating is that everyone is very comfortable now watching and everyone pretty much understands with the biden administration has been doing. it is trying to isolate russia on the world stage. the first step was very successful, it was reaching out

to european allies, reaching european countries that have someone close relations with russia, and getting sweeping and punishing sanctions on the kremlin. but this is a much more ambitious effort when it comes to, basically, what is the kremlin's number one ally in latin america. venezuela, country with the world's largest oil reserves. people have talked to are familiar with these engagements have said we need to really manage expectations about this, decoupling venezuela from the kremlin is an extremely difficult thing. they have grown to rely on each other increasingly, especially after the trump administration through the book on them on sanctions. this will really have to be quite a three-point shots. but it's at the beginning phases and it looks like it's not going to be -- it won't be a onetime deal.

so they will have other meetings and really the question is, can they make progress. and a lot of different areas where the u.s. and the venezuelan government have met huge differences, and this is one where they are trying to find some middle ground. >> in recent years, we have been come to expect much from the u.s. secretary of state. why would? we the last two people to hold the job where max hansen, and mark pompeo, not great as for the job. anthony blinken has been a very energetic secretary of state so far, he did the rounds of the sunday shows this morning. you followed him very closely, you've traveled with him, i know. how important -- how impressive has this bit of diplomacy from secretary blinken to isolate russia in this way in the space of, what, 10:11 days? >> it has been -- this is one area where you have to acknowledge that they've's significant success on the isolation front, on the coronation front, on the

sanctions front. you know, i was one of the reporters who -- there are many reporters, who are asking the united states, what is the evidence of this intelligence you are saying, that there is going to be an imminent invasion? and how strong is it? asking the questions that everyone needs to ask the government when they make claims based on intelligence. but it's fair to say, looking at how forward-leaning they are, how basically accurate they were about the timeline of the invasion. it really put them in a good place for having a coordinated response with the europeans, given how strongly and urgently they said the crisis was. and, of course, nothing helped more than the horrific images we are all seeing of cities across ukraine coming under gruesome attack from jets, from artillery, from borders. the whole book. nothing has unified the west more strongly than putin's violent actions.

we do have to give credit to the diplomats for laying the groundwork for united response. >> as i watch anthony blinken build this international coalition to get -- foreign policy, i can't help but think of his predecessor, mark pompeo, who famously berated an npr reporter and said do you think americans care about ukraine? john hudson, thank you so much for your time in your analysis and reporting tonight, appreciate it. >> good to be with. you >> after the break, a closer look at what it's like in ukraine right now, 11 days into vladimir putin's invasion. a firsthand account of web russian aggression on the ground looks like. that's next, don't go away. t, don't go away when you shop with wayfair, you spend less and get way more. so you can bring your vision to life, and save in more ways than one.

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soldiers? >> yes. >> how many were there, where were they doing? >> i saw maybe two or three people and i just moved away from there. i did not want to watch it. >> were they trying to attack? >> so -- they were still shooting everything they see. sorry. >> alex crawford reporting for sky news there. russian strikes on places like mariupol in the south have stopped civilians from fleeing.

cease-fires have failed as the city grows desperate and doctors are forced to treat the critically wounded without electricity, without water, without heat. when seriously injured men described what happened in those terrifying moments when mariupol came under attack. [speaking foreign language] let's be clear, ukraine remains under russian assault tonight. joining me on the phone from the city of lviv is jack crosby, corresponded for rolling stone magazine an msnbc contributor. thanks for coming on the show. that means start by asking you

an obvious question, what is life like on the ground where you are in ukraine right now at the moment? >> thanks for having me. yes, i'm in the western city of lviv right now where life is sort of caught in this duality between a strange sort of normal and obviously profoundly affected by the war. lviv has been spared the worst violence so far. there were strikes here early in the war as russians took out airfield and other military assets around the city. but then largely, its civilian population has not been exposed to the same level of danger as many other cities in ukraine. however, there's still just a profound sense that everywhere you go that you are still in a country that is at war. restaurants are closed, there are sandbags around almost every public and municipal

building. the statues in this town are quite beautiful town squares are all wrapped in plastic and other forms of padding to hopefully protect them, protect some of the architecture of the city if the bombs do start falling here. of course, the most profound changes, there is a large number of refugees inside the city. taking up hotel rooms and spare places, peoples flats. this is really become a place where people have fled to, lying to safety, and where they've gone to determine and plan their next moves into other places fleeing violence. >> you just reached lviv, i know, after a harrowing journey trying to escape kharkiv. you write, quote, it is often absurd to focus on the specific tools used in war. the aim is always the same,

death. but in this case, the scope and intent of the death we left behind and kharkiv is telling indiscriminate rocket artillery techs are now willingly sent toward civilian areas. i will never reached the scene of the strikes. i left kharkiv and i am not going back. the danger in pain there is immense. you mention indiscriminate shelling and artillery. anthony blinken talked about possible evan dozens of war crime. that's what indiscriminate shelling of civilian areas is, is it not? >> absolutely. and this is something that i think has been sort of proven without a doubt, at this point. the strategy that the russian military, and its proxies, have employed in conflicts across the globe over the last decade. it's one that's not unfamiliar to most modern militaries, including the united states. although it very much has become a hallmark of russian military strategies,

specifically, when they are trying to pacify or forced to submit a civilian population that resists them. we saw this in syria and we are certainly seeing it in ukraine now. there's civilian air raids in ukraine that are just being leveled. most acute example right now is mariupol. but this is certainly happening in kharkiv, as well, where there's shelling and rocket fire directly on civilian areas. there's artillery fire on these places. these are not precision strikes. these are not things that can even be through any shadow of a doubt claims to be aimed at military installations or mill that targets. this is sheer violence being leveled against civilians for no purposes other than doing the most amount of damage in as short a time as possible. >> jack, it is truly horrific. we appreciate your reporting from that war zone. jack crosbie on the phone from lviv. thank you, and please do stay

safe. >> thank you. after the break, vladamir putin then and now. what a difference 20 years makes. his thoughts on iraq and violating sovereignty back in 2003 and how they hold up against his current aggressions in ukraine. a lesson in hypocrisy coming up next. don't go away. agoway. ery busins is on a journey. and along the ride, you'll find many challenges. ♪ your dell technologies advisor can help you find the right tech solutions. so you can stop at nothing for your customers. so, you found the no7 then. it's amazing... hydrates better than the expensive stuff. i don't live here, so i'm taking this and whatever's in the back. it's already sold in the us. but i'm not taking any chances. the uk's best kept skincare secret. ♪ ♪ ♪a little bit of chicken fried♪ ♪cold beer on a friday night♪ ♪a pair of jeans that fit just right♪ ♪and the radio up well i've seen the sunrise...♪ get 5 boneless wings for $1 with any handcrafted burger.

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finally tonight, you know who thinks vladamir putin is breaking international law and violating the u.n. charter by invading ukraine? vladamir putin does. the vladamir putin of 2003 that is, who loudly opposed the u.s. invasion of iraq as a violation of international law and national sovereignty. a month before the u.s. invasion, putin said -- >> graver ror. outside of the law. putin said it, not me. in december 2003, nine months after the invasion of iraq, he said --

>> not fair. not justified. his words, not mine. and it wasn't just iraq back in 2013 when putin was opposing a u.s. strike on syria in response to the use of chemical weapons. he said this in a "new york times" op-ed. >> you heard him. if you go outside the security council and launch a war that isn't self-defense, that is an illegal act of aggression. so the putin of 2022 may say the war in ukraine is a justified, special military operation. but according to the putin of 2003 or even 2013, it's an illegal invasion in violation of the u.n. charter. thank you for joining us for msnbc's continuing special coverage. we pick up things right after

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