but first news on the international response to it. a short time ago this afternoon a white house national security council spokes pen said that the u.s. is now quote collecting evidence of possible war crimes. human rights abuses and violations of international humanitarian law. today president biden spoke with other world leaders from trance, germany and the uk. among the reported tommics a ban on russian gas and oil imports. meanwhile, secretary of state blinken is traveling stopping in latvia to reassure allies in eastern europe why this weekend defense secretary austin ordered additional 500 or so u.s.

military personnel to be deployed to europe for support sent to help protect nato airspace. last hour pentagon press secretary kirby briefed reporters with the latest information on the state of the russian military onslaught. >> what we assess is as they continue to get frustrated, relying on what we would call long range fires. so this is bombardment. missile strikes. artillery into city centers that they aren't in yet. not on the ground in any significant number. of course that has been leading to as you would expect it would relying on long range fire you cause more damage and kill more people and injure more people. >> he will be the guest later. now to what is happening on the ground in ukraine. efforts to evacuate hundreds of

thousands of innocent ukrainians failed over the weekend. people are still trapped there. in response moscow today put forward what was in reality a totally bogus offer for civilian safe passage. the ukrainian government called the proposal immoral. a stunt, a farce. the designated routes lead most people to rush or belarus. a senior defense official revealed that russia moved nearly 100% of the forces around ukraine into ukraine. major target is kyiv. the residents are moving to the city center. those people are running from the horrors of war. horrors like this. [ speaking foreign language ]

[ [ bleep ] ] >> so the vicks of that blast were unarmed civilians and a young girl. estimated to be about 8. a "the new york times" journalist next to that explosion. he took a photo in the aftermath. that's the front page of krikt. she will be the guest later in the program. the u.n. more thap 400 civilian deaths. but they suggest the real figure is likely much higher than that. nbc news colleague richard engel is in ukraine. seeing the latest report it is a dangerous, harrowing moment. >> reporter: the russians have arrived at the gates of kyiv. this foot bridge is one of the only ways that people escape a much more intense battle of the size that the russians have

taken over and get to relative safety. the russians taken over the suburbs on the northern edge of kooefr. the ukrainians blew up this bridge in order to slow down the russian advance but also made it extremely difficult for people to evacuate these areas that are hotly contested as russian forces try to consolidate the positions and the ukrainians try to keep them on that side of the river. all day we have seen a stream of panicked people, some being carried or many wheelchairs. they carry one bag at a maximum. some families separated here. broken down into tears. but this is now a small evacuation. a reverse evacuation where people leave the suburbs go to the center of kyiv to find

safety in the city. >> let's bring in the coverage nbc's cal perry live from lviv, ukraine. i have been watching you. i think it is safe to say that things are worse in just about every corner of ukraine. >> reporter: yeah. absolutely. we can start in the corp.ers and work the way in. on the outer edges of the country in the east and north of crimea south of russia it is health on earth. you have i would say a dozen cities by my count that have been surrounded by russian forces and shelled into dust. you have people unable to leave the homes for four or five days, stuck in basements and get above ground and the pattern is clear. the russians surround the city and cut the electricity and then the water. and the heat just follows and

people freeze to death while they're shelled. closer to kyiv you heard richard engel at the bridge. it's hit three times in 24 hours and talking about the corridors, it is negotiated out on the ground. each side knows that street that lindsey was standing on and that ukrainian soldier and the russians hitting that spot and not just in -- it is happening all across the country and so you have no trust on the ground when it comes to civilians. so even if both sides agree to a cease-fire, could be one tomorrow, how do you convince people in basements unable to get above ground it is safe to pass with their kids and seen other children and families being killed? now moving to the west where i am in lviv this weekend i'm

walking around town and you're sounded by thousands of people with the roller bags to get from a train station into poland and overwhelmed. there was a problem at the train station over the weekend and so many people with cars left the cars at the train station and nobody could get near the train station and had to bring in a way to get rid of the cars. they bundle up the unesco statues in the city. they're a heritage statues and starting to put them in bubble wrap to move underground or out of the country. doesn't seem like an end in sight and doesn't seem like there's any limit to this. i think people felt safe here near the boarer and don't feel safe anymore. on the negotiations, there was

trouble this weekend even talking about the road to the negotiations. i think they thought they would be targeted and flown to the negotiations in a black hawk helicopter and not clear who organized that. i say that there's a battle for the airspace here. two russian jets shot down tonight. 40 russian jets shot down since the beginning of the war. we don't how many ukrainian jets shot down. over the weekend the united states talked about the old jets in poland and getting them here to ukraine and back filling them from washington with newer fighter jets. how do you get the jets here? take pilots here and drive them to poland? how many pilots are left? does nato become a target? that's discussion on the ground is once the jets get here does that give putin an excuse to make it an article 5 issue with

nato? >> you've been i think one of the most observant sort of chroniclers of the country's psyche as it sort of traveled from disbelief to horror and still in sort of shock. i want to ask if the whole of the country is able to see the russians terrorizing civilians. are they able to see soldiers running with small children in the arms? are they able to see the picture that was on the front page of today's "the new york times"? does the whole of country understand what russia is doing to them? >> reporter: yes. part of that was over the weekend. ukrainian television got back on the air. the tow every hit thursday or friday and lost ukrainian tv for a day or two here. it is back on the air and people

seeing the horrible images and civilians dying and the hospitals fill up in the western area and the war arriving now in the form of blood here on the ground. i do want to say, though, it is going to be wildly unpopular that countries who end up in conflicts like these end up losing the soul to a certain extent. since arriving two weeks ago from the beginning day one television is streaming young russian boys taken p.o.w.s, pilots. and showing the interrogations and we can't trust what we see as totally honest because they're p.o.w.s under ukrainian control and don't know how they treat them or getting them to say except to say it is part of an information campaign starting to really pick up and people here are moving from shock and

disappointment and fear to anger so the discussion of a no-fly zone changed here. seeing p.o.w.s on tv and kids dying on the tv every day and reporters saying what do you think about no-fly zone? people are saying where do you think i came from? world war iii. it arrived at my door. the anger is starting to creep in and i think it is going to be something we see more and more of grateful for the support and now where are you? we heard this from president zelenskyy yesterday. we appreciate the support and the weapons to the children that are dying here he said are on your heads because there's no no-fly zone here. as the conflict goes on it compounds for everybody, not just the emotional but the did physical toll, the death toll,

the loss of identity and history and heritage. it compounds and the anger starts to come out and it is here. >> maybe it isn't that they lost the soul but asking the rest of the world to find theirs and find theirs. i speak him speaking to the world's conscience. no? >> reporter: absolutely. and i think it's so important to remember again and we go back to this idea that ukrainians know what they every fighting for, fighting for freedom and homes. so there is going to be that commitment to do anything to protect that. there is also a commitment that has been broken out here on the ground where families are forcibly separated and the men have to stay and fight and they are staying to fight and it is a beautiful concept but there are plenty of people that don't want to stay and fight and terrified that want to be with their

families and not on the front line and are being told they need to be go to the front line and need to take the train to the front and i think it is difficult to imagine that outside this country the faces of these young men. 19 years old. a 19-year-old kid scared to death. here's the rifle. off you go. that's what's happening at the train stations. sign up. thank you for your i.d. and will get you squared away on the other end. >> and also the country seems to be moving into the acceptance that this is going to not be something that is resolved in a matter of days. they every on trains, separating possibly for a very, very long time. >> reporter: and the power stations. like there's a creeping sense that we are all going to lose

power and heat soon. a fire fight on friday night surreal because we have a fire fight at a nuclear power station and could be ten times worse than chernobyl. the civilians think if they control the power station and flip the power off how do we stay here? the city of lviv a place to travel through, losing power there's a question what will we do? how does that work? do you have this secondary exodus to the border. millions of people displaced in this country. 5 million people are already in need of food. how bad does this get? and nobody seems to have an answer to that question. >> you are our eyes and ears and

so grateful to you. i hope you are pacing yourself. thank you so much for being there and spending time with us. >> reporter: thank you. joining the conversation, jeremy bash from cia and now a msnbc national security analyst and katie kaz cassback. jeremy, first to what we have all witnessed as simply witnesses over the weekend, the horrors of war inside ukraine. >> it is the largest movement of people inside europe since world war ii so no word can capture the horrors that cal and richard and others have been documenting and obviously i think it points up to the point that vladimir putin has failed spectacularly in his initial invasion plan. he didn't communicate the plan down to his tactical units.

he utterly failed to take kyiv and decapitation strike against the government. resorted to standoff efforts to shell, bomb essentially carpet bomb civilians, to hit apartment buildings and schools and hospitals and engage in what's 'parent to the world. aer is why is of war crimes and the west and nato allies continuing to arm the ukrainians to fight off the russians i think now focusing on this counter rocket, counter artillery, counter missile capabilities. the migs to help the ukrainians prevent the russians from gaining air supremacy. there has to be sending of stingers which have been effective. increased sending of javelins. over the weekend russians lost

half a dozen fixed wing aircraft. they are set back. so of course the human toll is a dimension of this which we have been tracking and noting. the geostrategic equation is also very significant. i would say right now if i had to bottom line this i would say the west and nato are prevailing in their support of ukraine and ukraine is winning the battlefield right now. >> the inability to safety evacuate civilians is what led everyone today to make clear i guess and go on the record and accuse vladimir putin of committing war crimes. i want to show you what president zelenskyy said to abc news today about the need to shake putin out of a stupor of disinformation before they can have meaningful negotiations with him. >> what needs to be done is for

president putin to stop talking. instead of living in the information bubble without oxygen. he is in this bubble. he's getting this information and you don't know how realistic that information is that he's getting. >> it seems that if the truth about what's happening were actually reaching all of russia the political standing would be more wobbly. the protests have been historic in size, the arrests have been i think terrifying to see and watch from the west and worry about the disposition of all those brave protesters but i wonder on the simple fact of with whom does zelenskyy negotiate with about corridors, a cease-fire. i wonder if there are now more questions about putin's

stability. >> there have been questions about putin's stability from the beginning but not just putin. the russian ambassador to the united nations claimed before the u.n. body in new york that ukrainians are shelling themselves. you have other people around putin saying this. his apparatus is repeating the line because that's what they want russians to hear. the one thing i think that putin is nervous about are the demonstrations at home and yeah, we have seen brave demonstrations and brave people arrested but not the tens of thousands yet. i remember back in the afghan war it was mothers of soldiers dying in afghanistan who contributed to the pressure on the soviet union to leave afghanistan. if you start getting mothers of soldiers in ukraine getting angry and if the protests get

bigger then that contributings to the pressure on kremlin. i don't think it's just listen to the ambassador. this is the line they want and had the blockade of foreign media and independent media within russia. critically important to get the information. >> i want to show you the lit wanian president with secretary of state tony blinken. >> i must say that strengthening deterrence is not long enough and we need for defense here in place. and because our lives will be too late. putin will not stop in ukraine if he will not be stopped. >> i wonder the latest in the intelligence assessment were spot on. i wonder what the assessment is

what the lit wanian leader is saying. will putin stop after ukraine? >> look. i don't know right now exactly what the assessments say but i would have to have to prepare for putin to engage in the irrational act to take a step over the nato line into the baltics. and the reason i think you have to make that preparation because putin is in a corn ir. the invasion failed spectacularly. he has a convoy 40 miles long that's stalled by taking out fuel trucks along that convoy. ukrainians retained some air defenses and debilitated the invading force from the air. russia's not undertaken -- not

successfully taken a major city. fur putin only talking to advisers and not the svr chief or sergey lavrov or the other people on the scene and isolated yourself then i think it's important for the international community to be prepared for putin to do irrational things and phenomenally important the united states maintain this force posture. >> i wanted to ask, i believe the bbc is a news organization that left moscow on friday when this new law passed and the new law i think made it a crime punishable by 15 years in prison to broadcast fake news which is defined by the kremlin anything that the kremlin didn't say is so. we are way down in the alice in

wonderland's rabbit hole. having been a force at bbc what does it mean for them to leave russia? >> it's a really tough decision. we have correspondents that fluents russian and sending back good reports from russia and those reports are broadcast inside russia and ukraine but when you can't report the news independently and accurately, when you can't call this a war even without the fear to go to prison for 15 years you're not helping. the bbc has kept up the russian language services. those are broadcast from outside the country and on radio online you have russians who have access to bbc independent accurate reporting in russian so for people outside the cities

and the metropolises i think that's still important but these are really tough calls. i think about ukraine. the foreign journalists there in difficult position some point news organizations are going to decide that it's not possible to keep them in the dangerous positions. in kyiv sky news reporters came under fire and then not seeing the stories from ukraine and hearing about the civilians killed and take pressure off international governments to put pressure on russia and ukrainians need the story to be told and i hope we can keep our foreign journalists there to keep pressure on the russian government to withdraw and then without that pressure they find it easier to do the terrible things of accusations of war crimes that they're doing.

>> they're not going anywhere. ukrainian civilians fleeing from the russian war, now people didn't make it out. as a bomb there killed a mother and two children and a friend. the journalist that is captured the final moments, final seconds as they ran from war trying to make it to safety. back to one of the many voices on the ground. a first to tell us about the tragedy in kharkiv. he joins up on the journey and what lifer is like now for the refugees. the plight of the ukrainians braging for what is next. a former adviser to president zelenskyy will be our ghost. stay with us.

nowhere has the reality of war, the reality of innocent civilians coming under fire been brought into clearer focus than irpen where "the new york times" photo journalist lindsay captures the most searing image that we have ever seen. before we talk to her it is graphic. it is heartbreaking. and it is unforgettable. here's how the attack that she captured unfolded this weekend. residents tried to get out of

town russian forces fired. [ speaking foreign language ] [ bleep ] [ bleep ] [ bleep ]. >> so you can see dario there with the camera capturing the aftermath. at least four civilians were killed. the photo appeared on the front page of "the new york times." the four civilians are a mom, teenage son her daughter thought to be around 8 and a family friend. lindsay dario joins us now from kyiv. how are you doing? >> i mean, i wish i wasn't here

really but i think this is -- this speaks to the importance of having journalists on the ground. yesterday was a very difficult say. we were very lucky to survive that mortar hit really between us and the family. it very well could have been us but the fact that we survivored and able to bear witness to what happened and "the new york times" was able to publish that image really to me speaks to the importance of journalism. >> i saw it online as soon as it was published and the paper came this morning and left it at home to save it. it is already i think your craft, your art, the journalism for the picture to do the storytelling and to me it tells the story of what we have been trying for ten days.

the human calamity of war. is that your intent and how you feel? >> i mean, when i cover a war i'm trying to get as many different angles of the story as i can because it's complex. it's -- war is nuanced. you know? i think for me every day i wake up and think do i go to the hospital or the train station or the front line? what can i do and try to be as safe as i can and make the images that people remember. ironically i had been speaking to my sister the night before and said i feel like i'm failing. we have been really playing it safe not going out to the villages like the heart of european right. because we were trying to stay within kyiv so i went to a place i thought would be safe because it was a civilian evacuation

route. a known path civilians were going and very soon after arriving there mortars lobbed at first they started about 200 meters from the position and then literally bracketing on to the path where civilians were walking so i watched it in realtime. >> and this is now obviously at the center of geopolitics today. right? that vladimir putin is targeting civilians and that there are no safe passageways. you did the journalism before this caught up and i wonder if you could say more about the reality of civilians in ukraine right now. >> i think all of us journalists on the ground trying to show the civilian toll and hear a lot of things in war. each side will tell you what they want journalists to report

and important for us to see it with our own eyes and bear witness. you can't take things at face value. from the moment i got to that position where we see people coming across the bridge, the soldiers were telling me civilians are targeted. they are targeting civilians. i said we have heard that and then when the mortars starting to come in i thought it is not possible. they're not going to target that path. and surely they did target the path and walking that mortar on to the position of the civilians. it was incredible to witness and the family lying there on the ground lifeless with little suitcases is most heartbreaking thing i have seen. >> it is that i have seen and

guessing that you would tell me it is happening all over and numbers we can't wrap our brains around yet. can you tell me your sense of what this country is enduring at the hands of these russian attacks? >> yeah. there are amazingly brave ukrainian and foreign journalists and each covering what we can and seeing repeatedly schools targeted, residential buildings targeted. basically nothing is off limits and seeing people fleeing from their lives in droves and while fleeing not making it i was watching as i was shooting in the first series of mortars watching the little children and a girl through the lens and mortars going passed her. how can you target children? there is no way that president

putin can say only military targets are targeted because that's just not the reality. >> did you see any ukrainian military or was this clearly an attack on civilians? >> the ukrainian military is present but ushering people across. they were picking up babies. helping with suit cases. that man on that video spent half the morning shielding me. hearing the whistle he throws himself on top of me. these guys were not firing from that position. i was there with them for about an hour and none of them were shooting from that position. >> you said that you thought you were going to be covering civilians that day and came under attack and clear that putin's plan at this point

whatever seem say about the war he does maintain advantages militarily. what is the impact on where you decide to go next of that reality? >> the other reality is that his military has been intentionally journalists. sky news was shot at repeatedly. cars identified with the press emblem, journalists wearing press flack jackets targeted intentionally. so that does have great bearing where i go and how i work because even going to the bridge yesterday when i had to run across the street i was worried about sniper fire. we are targets as much as the civilians and has a bearing on how we cover the war. >> if people saw -- i think everyone has seen the image today. did you know what you had?

did you know what you had captured? did you know they were altogether? you said you saw her in the pink puffy jacket and knew what was unfolding but is this happening sort of in numbers that we haven't grasped and that the ukrainians haven't been able to convey? what is your sense of what this photo represents? >> this photo represents to me a war crime. it represents sort of an intentional targeting of civilians and women and chirp in -- children in particular. i was in shock because i had gist had a mortar land about 30 feet from me so i knew what i had to do as a journalist, i had to take the photos as painful as they were. i tried to do it in a respectful way. we were still under fire. and then there was the whole task of discussing with my editors. could we publish a photo like

this? i thought from the beginning because i believed that we cannot censor war and fortunately "the new york times" was amazing. and they stood up and they put it on the front page and the home page and i think that's the reason why people are talking about it. >> this may sound unprofessional but we need you and to stay safe and to keep bearing witness so that we can have an informed reaction as humans and countries and as people covering it from the safe distance. thank you so much for the risks taken and the picture taken and spending time with us to talk about it and we hope you stay safe more than anything. >> thank you. >> thank you. one of the voices we have turned to the last couple weeks is jack crosby's covering the invasion and the horrors of the most horrific things that happened so far.

he moved out of direct combat zone. he has just safely crossed the border into poland with thousands of others and will be the next guest on what that experience was like and what's next for those that made it out of the country. one gram of sugar, and nutrients to support immune health. here's candice... who works from home, and then works from home. but she can handle pickup, even when her bladder makes a little drop-off. because candice has poise, poise under pressure and poise in her pants. it takes poise.

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>> why indeed. heartbreaking interviews there with ukrainians forced to flee their own country. the refugee crisis is getting worse by the day. more than 1.7 million ukrainian children and women mostly have left the country. more than half a million of those are children according to -- some traveling for days in cramp conditions leaving everything, everything they had behind. let's bring in rolling stone correspondent and msnbc

contributor jack crosbie who spent days in kharkiv and now made it to warsaw, poland, after traveling with many of those ukrainians fleeing the country. jack, tell us what -- i have heard every interview you have done so i hate to pretend that i have not but tell us what your day was like today and what that journey was like. >> so i have been following this same route essentially from many of the same people coming out of kharkiv same as i was either through train or by car across the country to lviv and then on through the border so i made it through the border myself this morning. had to stand in the same loons as every refugee leaving this country. has to make the way to the same crossings. and you know, what i really heard was this profound mix of

emotions from people. there's of course tremendous sadness and sorrow. there's a depth to this i can't fully imagine because this jorny is leaving and going home. they have left home and i heard some storied today and what they said was striking and profound. i spoke to a girl this morning who said that she feels sad but not so much sadness as anger because she knows -- she's sad to flee but angry because she knows who forced heifer to flee it and i think there's this mix of emotions from people of sadness and grief and anger and loss. that's a what i have seen on this route. >> your reporting has a haunting echo to that of cal perry that

if he could track the dominant emotions of the ukrainians that he is speaking to and in lviv it's turned to anger. you wrote a definitive history fist draft and i want to ask you if it feels different now that you are out of the country. on the morning of the massacre in kharkiv i woke up in a comfortable bed. we passed people walking calmly down the street. they had no choice. they could not leave with us the western press fleeing a city on the verge of collapse. the aim is always the same. death. but in this case the scope and intent of the death we left behind is telling. russian leadership has shifted the tactics.

resistance in kharkiv and kyiv will be punished. indiscriminate rocket or artillery attacks are willingly sent to civilian areas. this has come to pass. this is the photo that captured civilians as targs. she described them as war crimes and has many international bodies and lead everies today. i wonder what you feel as you sort of as you said leaving the country for now while this is still very much intensifying. >> as i have written about there's guilt as a journalist i think in the leaving and sort of leaving behind a story still just beginning but i think the images that lynsy captured yesterday and describing are

sort of a grim prediction for what is to come here. and i think i feel like my experience leaving kharkiv is right at the front of this kind of wave of pain that is rushing over a lot of ukrainian cities and ukrainian towns. there are towns like where lynsy was and others in mariupol region. many others across the country leveled by violence and not in the same big cities as much of the news is covered they almost sort of get a second mention. and i don't know if that's our fault as journalists. we can't cover everything in the country but it does speak to something that there's a breadth of pane and hurt happening

that's almost impossible to capture. i don't see that changing in the immediate future so, you know, it is difficult to look back on a country like that, especially now that i have left it and realize that so many stories ar there and may not get told. >> well, because of the story that you have told and because of the words you've written and the generosity of spirit that you have had to be on programs like this one, we know so much more. our understanding of that pain is enhanced so much, and it crushes me to hear that you feel any guilt. i think most of us in climate-controlled studios have the guilt market cornered. i hope you travel safely. and i thank you for all of your contributions to helping us understand this story and understand the horrors of war in ukraine. jack crosbie in poland for us, thank you so much.

>> thank you so much. quick break for us. we'll be right back. ch quick break for us we'll be right back.

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why don't you do cool spins? uh, people need to read it. i can't read it. [ chuckles ] that's 'cause you're like 4. 4 1/2. switch to progressive, and you can save hundreds. you know, like the sign says. we're back with jeremy and catty. jeremy, i come to you, an hour of voices from the ground, and i take heart by your notion that the ukrainians have the advantage, but man, the russians are doing one heck of a job as a wrecking ball to that beautiful country. >> yeah, and you know, nicole,

your reporting and the conversations you have had, i think, are causing me to amend something i said. no one's winning. i think the russians are failing in their tactical objectives, but of course the real victims are the ukrainian people. i will just say that the u.s. government officials with whom i've been talking have been really impressed with the strength, the courage, and the battlefield acumen of volodymyr zelenskyy and his senior leaders as they defend their country from this russian onslaught. and what i think we're settling into is going to be a long war in which the russians are not going to give up. they're going to continue to fire weaponry into civilian locations. they're running out of precision guided munitions. they're going to turn increasingly to imprecise munitions.

we're going to see the humanitarian crisis continue to unfold and we're going to have to in the west, just have to continue to stand shoulder-to-shoulder together against russia's aggression, against them at the u.n., against them with sanctions and against them with weapons, training, intelligence, and cyber capabilities for the ukrainians. we're going to have to engage in a long, indirect war against the russian federation. and only in that mode will we ultimately defend ukraine and prevail against russia's atrocious violation of international law and international norms. >> catty, the last word is yours. >> we've heard from some remarkable journalists reporting from inside ukraine and as you said, nicole, we need them there to bear witness. the information part of this is critical. i was speaking to a european diplomat today who said they're really worried about the lack of information inside russia, that there's now a soviet-style

crackdown on information for russians themselves. we're hearing the stories out of ukraine, thank goodness, from brave journalists. russians also need to be able to hear those stories too and they can't at the moment. >> jeremy bash and katty kay, thank you for bearing witness to my efforts to understand what's happening on the ground. i'm grateful to have both of you. thank you so much, my friends. the next hour of "deadline white house" starts after a quick break. our of "deadline white house" starts after a quick break. first psoriasis, then psoriatic arthritis. it was really holding me back. standing up...

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>> translator: we've been not sleeping for two days. we're living this terrible life because someone decided that my

children should not have home anymore. we just put everything we had in our bag, but the rest of the clothes, we left in ukraine. our city is destroyed. we don't have it anymore. our kharkiv is destroyed. in kharkiv, we left our father in kharkiv. many children are still in kharkiv. who needs it? no one needs it. who wants it? also no one. >> hi again, everyone, it's 5:00 in new york, midnight in kyiv where russian aggression and russian attacks have only intensified. the senior u.s. defense official telling nbc news that nearly 100% of all those russian troops that had amassed along the border of ukraine are now inside ukraine. 625 missiles have been fired by russia since the war began. in the last few days, we have seen an increased number of attacks on civilians. the u.n. announcing today that more than 400 civilians, including 27 children, have died

since the invasion began. today, ukraine rejected a proposal by russia to let refugees flee because the plans that russia laid out were routes that led to russia. or to a satellite, belarus. conditions which ukraine promptly dismissed and called unacceptable. with russia ramping up its attacks, the u.s. and our allies are navigating the next steps. the standoff between ukraine and nato over the enforcement of a no-fly zone continues, but we learned this weekend that the biden administration is holding talks with poland about a possible deal to help provide soviet-era fighter jets to ukraine which the u.s. would then back fill with u.s.-made jets to poland. today, secretary of state tony blinken visited latvia and lithuania, reassuring allies in eastern europe of the united states' commitment to nato. secretary of state blinken made an appeal to vladimir putin to bring an end to the war by reminding him of what russia has been through in its past.

>> we've seen scenes like this before in europe. every russian has lived or learned about the horrific siege of liningrad during world war ii. that siege affected millions of russian families, including president putin's, whose 1-year-old brother is one of the many victims. the world is saying to russia, stop these attacks immediately. let the food and medicine in. let the people out safely. >> also in latvia, our colleague, josh lederman, who got a close look at nato's response force and the u.s. troops training there. here, he's speaking with the commanding general, brigadier general joseph hilbert. >> the first time article v was invoked was for the united states. >> right, after 9/11. >> absolutely. and how far is new york city from here? i don't want to guess the thousands of miles, but 30 members or at the time the

alliance came together to defend the united states. that's as much a part of nato territory as the dirt we're standing on today so it's absolutely relevant to all of us as an alliance. >> and new this afternoon, we learned that defense secretary lloyd austin ordered an additional 500 u.s. troops to be deployed to europe to help the forces already there. that brings the total number of u.s. troops in europe on rotational or permanent orders to roughly 100,000. and that is where we begin this hour with pentagon press secretary john kirby, who is back. thank you for joining us again. i caught your briefing today in preparation for this, and i want to ask you about the assessment about russian military morale being so low and some of the incompetence of the early days. it seems that figures into loosely as what's been described as resignation and a willingness now to shoot more

indiscriminately from a farther distance into civilian areas. do those things coincide in your analysis? >> look, we have certainly anecdotal evidence that at times and at places, russian soldiers are definitely facing some morale issues, disorientation. some of them are saying they thought they were going on a training exercise and not an invasion of another country so we certainly believe that there are instances of flagging morale and that that is -- as it would in any army, that affects your performance but pulling back out, nicole, it's very clear that the russians have not made the progress they anticipated making in those first few days and now we're into the second week. they still have not achieved any strategic objectives, certainly in the north of the country. they've made some progress in the south, but they're behind schedule and we think they know that and that may be one reason why the shelling and the bombardment of these major cities like kharkiv and kyiv continue now at a more

aggressive pace. >> for as spot on as the u.s. intelligence product was about what putin was doing and when he was doing it, it feels either like it's being kept close or not totally clear what putin's end game is. do you have any better understanding of what his military objectives are? >> we certainly don't have insight into his military plans. i mean, we're seeing it kind of unfold just like you are every day. but it's clear, a couple of things are clear, and you can get this from his own public comments. he doesn't believe that ukraine should exist as a sovereign nation state. in fact, he doesn't believe it ever existed as a sovereign nation state. and he wants to make them a vassal of russia. and it is very clear that he wants a new government in ukraine, one that is of his liking and of his choosing, and he wants to topple the existing democratically elected government there. now, from a military perspective, it appears as if he's going about this in three main lines of effort, up from the south in crimea, from the

north towards kyiv directly, and then from the northeast out of russia to a place like kharkiv. what we assess is that he wants to encircle kyiv and force it to surrender so that he can again install this government of his own choosing, but he has diversified his forces around the country, as i said, to the south and to the east. in the south, he's having more progress. not so much in the north where there is a very stiff and determined ukrainian resistance. >> the ukrainian efforts to communicate with us in the west is impressive and cal perry reported in the last hour after that tower was bombed, i think in the first three or four days of the war there, another tower has gone up, and so in the whole of ukraine, they're able to see what is happening. and i wonder if you can just give me the inburst. how much does the morale and the fierceness of fighting on the ukrainian part, which was perhaps underestimated by putin

and maybe even by us, how does that figure into what you're seeing? >> there's -- i don't think you can underestimate the effect that the ukrainian resistance has had on russian progress and probably on their morale, but more critically, on their ability to achieve their objectives. i mean, there's been a lot of talk in the last few days about this long convey, right, to the north. that convoy really hasn't moved much at all in the last few days because the ukrainians were able to resist it and able to stop it, and the russians are feeling that everywhere they are, particularly in the north and the northeast. and it's not just on the ground, nicole. it's in the air too. the ukrainian air force is flying. they still have surface-to-air missile capability available to them and they're using that. they are making the air space over ukraine contested. the russians have not achieved air superiority as they thought they would so it's definitely having a detrimental effect on their progress. i would add, nicole, that they're also suffering their own

problems. logistics and planning. you talked about a potential failure of intelligence to understand what they were up against in ukraine. we think that's true too, but they're also making missteps and stumbles when it comes to just sustaining themselves and their forces. they're running out of fuel, running out of food, so they're having problems of their own in that regard as well. >> yet the sheer numbers, i mean, a bulldozer without an effective steering wheel can still do a lot of damage and it's clear from talking to reporters on the ground, and i'm sure you have your own sources on the ground, that the toll this is taking on the country, 1.7 million refugees and counting, many of them women and children as young men can't leave, i wonder what you say when ukrainians are calling as loudly as they can for the west to do more. what is your response? >> well, we are doing more. we have stepped up and accelerated and expedited shipments from the president's

$350 million drawdown package which was only over a week ago, more than 70% of all that material is already in ukraine. secretary austin spoke to his ukrainian counterpart last week and the minister made it clear that he was grateful for the material they're getting and the fact that it's getting into the hands of ukrainian fighters and being used. and we're expediting the remainder of that package as well and it's not just us, nicole. other nations, 14 other nations, are providing security assistance to the ukrainian armed forces and that too is getting into the right hands and getting used. you're seeing that for yourself in just the imagery coming out of there. i think the entire west, certainly the alliances, is really stepping up to do what they can to help ukraine in this fight. >> i saw you field some questions at your briefing about jets. let's talk about jets. i know that the secretary of state gave nato countries a green light to supply jets, their jets, to ukraine if they choose to do so, and i know you were pressed today about whether

or not, say, poland decides to give their soviet-era jets to their neighbors in ukraine, would we replace poland's jets with, say, american jets? tell me -- just take me inside, you know, the careful process of deliberating that policy. >> yeah, so, i think we need to back up here and again go back to the major point, which is that nations all over europe are looking for ways to help ukraine and i think this is of a piece of that larger effort. and we have made it clear from an administration perspective if another nation wants to provide aircraft, for instance, in this case, to the ukrainian armed forces, the united states is not going to stand in the way of that. that's a sovereign decision that a country has to make and we would respect that. now, if it's about a proposal in which the united states might back fill aircraft to replace those that were donated, that's a discussion that the administration is willing to have. we are just at the beginning of this. there's been no decisions to

approve such a proposal, because we don't really understand the parameters of it right now. and i don't think that it's been decided by any other nation right now to donate aircraft to ukraine. i think there's at least one nation that we're talking about that's thinking about that but i don't think they've made a national decision to do it so there's an awful lot you would have to work through here. how many would you back fill with? where would they come from? how long would they be provided? all of that is stuff we're talking about right now and no decisions have been made. but again, important to come back to the larger issue here. a lot of countries are trying to do the right thing to help ukraine defend itself. >> and i imagine one of the concerns would be that it's not a leap that putin would distort this, if america were to send poland its jets, and say, america, you know, supplied jets so that poland could give its jets to ukraine. i mean, obviously, there's a whole lot of concern about what could be easily distorted into a trip wire for vladimir putin. >> i think just broadly

speaking, nicole, we're always looking for -- to understand the kind of support that we give and make sure that it is doing what ukraine needs it to do, that they're getting what they're trained on, and that they're getting what they need to do to continue this very stiff and determined resistance, but also making it clear that the united states is not seeking conflict with russia. nobody's interested in escalating this and making it a war between the west and russia or the united states and russia. this is about an unprovoked and illegal invasion of another nation state by russia, and i think we all need to remember who's responsible here for the death and destruction and the deep, deep concern by the international community about what's happening in the ukraine. it's vladimir putin. this is his war of choice. and he still has options available to him to de-escalate, to stop this invasion, to sit down at the diplomatic table and come to a peaceful solution here that respects ukraine's sovereignty. so, we're focused on that. at the same time, we are very

focused as the president has made clear, we're going to be ready to defend every inch of nato territory if it comes to that, and hopefully it won't, but if it does, we need to be ready and that's what we're doing. we're looking at ways we can bolster the deaf capabilities of the alliance, including the 500 troops that secretary austin ordered in over the weekend. >> let me ask you about some reporting in "the new york times," david sanger, julia barnes and ken vogel report this. in less than a week, the u.s. and nato have pushed more than 1,000 anti-tank weapons over the borders of poland and romania, unloading them from a giant military cargo plane so they can make the trip by land to kyiv. the ukrainian capital and other major cities. so far, russian forces have been so preoccupied that they haven't targeted the arms supply lines but few think that can last. i want to ask you about sort of contingency plans. we have been so blessed by the journalists in the country bringing us the reporting but even those journalists are pushing west.

are there -- is there anything you can tell us for plans if that country should get shut off from the west? >> what i can tell you is that we're going to continue to support ukraine as much as we can, as fast as we can, and as i said, we accelerated and expedited this latest package of $350 million worth of material just days -- it's almost record time what we were able to get into the hands of ukraine. we're going to continue to look for ways to do that, just as, again, as fast as we can, and understanding that, you know, that the -- right now, the russians are focused on these three main lines of access. we continue to be able to get that aid to ukraine and as long as we can continue to do that, we will. >> hang on, press secretary john kirby, who has a whole lot of things on his plate these days. we're grateful to you for taking time to talk to us this hour. thank you. >> yes, ma'am. glad to be with you. >> join us now from lviv,

ukraine, associated press international affiliate reporter, multilingual, big fans of all of your work here. please tell us what you're seeing today in lviv. >> well, look, this is a place that can seem a very, very long way away from a country at war. this is a relatively calm and peaceful place, and you know a lot of the people who are here right now, they desperately need that precise atmosphere of calm because this is a place where a lot of those refugees from the east and from the center of the country, from the capital, kyiv, for example, this is where they end up. it's a bit of a transit point for them. there are a lot of refugees who come here after an arduous journey. you've said it already. these are mainly women and children and the elderly because the men between the ages of 18 and 60 are not allowed out of the country, so all those women, children, and the elderly arrive here after a terrible journey, sometimes over 20 hours on a train, for example. they've seen terrible things, so this is a place, if they have

the luxury to do so, where they can have a little bit of a rest, but then the voyage continues. a train station here in lviv is a very busy place. it is a pretty despairing place for a lot of people because here, the attempts to get on a train and get out of the country are quite serious as well. those trains get those refugees to poland. they get them to a country that is at peace, gets them out of the country at war, and that is, of course, what all of these refugees want in the end. this is a city that has a lot of life to it. when you look at it closely, they're these aren't necessarily the people who are usually here. a lot of tourists come to lviv, usually, but now it's a lot of refugees walking these streets. >> of course, you make clear that i have been saying it wrong for 12 days, but on a serious note, i want to understand this migration. it sounds like the vast majority of refugees that come from kharkiv or from farther north or

the south are passing through lviv. they're passing through on the way to poland. is lviv just not set up or is there this ominous sense that lviv could be next? >> yeah, there is that constant fear, of course, when you look at the map of ukraine, the whole west essentially of the country has been spared. it is tactically simply not important for vladimir putin right now. he has the access that he is moving his troops on into the center of ukraine from the south, from the northeast, from the north into the capital of kyiv or rather around the capital, kyiv. the west isn't all too important to vladimir putin right now. the fear is twofold here. first of all, what if he simply gets frustrated with what is happening right now, with troops that are being slowed down, that are bogged down in some places, might he then want to attack somewhere else, another city that he might be able to take over and besiege? it's a possibility. there hasn't been a single

attack here during this 12-day war but that could change. the other aspect that could be worrying to people here is as john kirby just mentioned, weapons are being brought into ukraine. how? well, invariably, from the west. from poland. from romania. from other nato member countries. there might be a point where the russian military will say, well, we can't let those weapons come into the country anymore and they might be attacked at some point on ukrainian territory. those are fears that people have here. >> phillip, the world got a glimpse of something that i'm sure you've seen before this weekend, and that is the targeting, it would appear, of civilians. we talked to lynsy in the last hour and that image that's on today's front page of the "new york times." i wonder if that changed the tenor of those evacuations. we've seen the images and while desperate and tragic, and these

heartbreaking good-byes, they didn't look chaotic, and i wonder if the evacuations through and beyond lviv look different after this weekend. >> well, you know what? we pretty much all know that number is going to tick up further and further and further still if things continue the way they are right now. it stands at 1.7 million right now, according to the u.n. refugee agency, and it is undoubtedly going to go further up. now, when it comes to chaotic scenes, there are very chaotic scenes for people who want to get on those trains, for example, as quickly as possible. there are simply not enough. i should mention that it is quite extraordinary that in a country at war like ukraine, you can still get on a train in the capital, kyiv, and go all the way through to poland. those train lines are still working. but things are pretty orderly, it has to be said, on the borders between ukraine and poland, on both sides. on the ukrainian side, it's particularly tough, because you've got long lines of cars,

vans, trucks, buses full of people. it takes a long, long time to get over the border, and next to them, you've got hundreds of people on foot trying to do the exact same thing, and they might have been on the road for a very, very long time, but what we've seen in poland when we were just two days ago before crossing into ukraine is a very well-organized humanitarian effort. when these people cross into poland, they will get warm food, a warm blanket, a place to sleep for one or two days, but most importantly, what they get the orders is transport. they get a possibility to move on to other places. a lot of them don't get stuck on the border. there could be friends or family who will drive them somewhere else to their destination, and the thing that's really edifying that you're going to see on the border, on the polish side, is you've got volunteers holding up signs with countries that they are willing to drive to and are looking for people to join them

in their cars and buses and vans, and they will take them to those destinations. >> and then those people have to figure out what comes next. it's incredible. we're so grateful to you for your reporting, for helping us understand, philip you they are in lviv, thank you so much. when we come back, ukrainian civilians trying simply to survive the horror of war. we will be joined by igor, a former advisor to ukraine's president zelenskyy, who we've spoken to a few times now. he remains hunkered down with his family in kyiv. plus as ukraine braces for another round of russian attacks, our friend and colleague clint watts will have a closer look at the military developments on the ground there. and later a live report on the humanitarian crisis and the heartbreaking stories of ukrainian refugees as we've been discussing, they now number 1.7 million, all of them desperately struggling to leave their war-torn homes behind. "deadline white house" continues after a quick break. d. "deadline white house" continues after a quick brea k. ♪ i see trees of green ♪

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this is the entrance to our shelter, which is not, you know, official one, but it is our temporary, you know, so we live -- we go downstairs, and if i will show you. so, we have 12 people here. and we managed to equip it with some, you know, places for sleeping and like a kitchen, and here are people who live

together and you know, it is good that we have a high ceiling, because in most places, it is not possible to sleep even horizontally. >> that's the new normal, firsthand account there from victoria, a ukrainian woman in the northern town taking us on a tour there through the unbelievable situation that she finds herself in as she tries to stay alive amid escalating russian attacks. it's a situation repeated thousands and thousands of times all across the country of ukraine. joining our coverage once again, igor, a former advisor to ukrainian president zelenskyy who remains in the country with his young family. i now worry about you every day when i wake up and think about you. tell me how you're doing. >> oh, first of all, thank you very much. good evening. we're doing fine. we're safe and sound, and it's really weird that we have to say

that we're safe in every conversation now, every single conversation that we have. two kind of developments that i want to talk about today is, first of all, the humanitarian crisis, because what we've seen over the last few days has just been terrible, horrifying, and unbelievable. i mean, we do, at the moment, have credible intelligence backed by what we're hearing from captured russian soldiers that they have been given explicit orders to target civilians and create panic. so, they actually are shooting at the backs of civilians fleeing from capture areas and that's terrible. i think the main objective for russia now, since they're losing militarily would be to break the human spirit of the ukrainian nation. and we're fighting hard against it but it's an uphill battle at the moment, so that's the most

worrying development. as far as the military situation is concerned, obviously, it's difficult, but i think we have one more wave of attacks to survive, and we're going to be fine. >> igor, i don't know if you've seen the image that a "new york times" journalist took and it is on the front page of the biggest newspaper in this country and it is of what you're describing, the targeting of civilians. a girl thought to be about 8 years old in a pink puffer and the photojournalist described seeing her before the mortar went off and then she took this image that she describes as a war crime, and you describe the russian war as the genocide. i wonder if you can just tell me how you see the russian war there. >> well, first of all, i don't know that family personally, but a friend of mine does, so -- and that's the scariest development

that's happened over the last two days was the fact that you know how you have your facebook friends, and when things start to go bad, you know you initially have that first death amongst your friends. well now, it's been several deaths, and the number keeps growing so that war, first of all, is getting closer to every single ukrainian, so there's no way to escape it. secondly, i think we will uncover the true horrifying scale of atrocities committed by the russians in ukraine only after this war ends, because look, we're witnessing that daily. you're only seeing certain images that make it to the front page of the "new york times," but there are hundreds more there, and it's not only humans. it's also the animals. one of the most heartbreaking stories at the moment is we have this amazing private zoo, literally a few kilometers northwest of kyiv, and it's now

in the middle of the war zone, so literally we're looking at hundreds of animals dying of starvation within the next few days, and it's just horrible, and the fact that you can't do anything about it is terrible. look, one of the things i was personally dealing with yesterday and today was how to channel that fury and that anger into something productive, because i think what russia is after is for some of us to panic and others to pick up a gun and run at them with all we've got and that's a sure way to lose this war. so, we kind of -- the psychological side of things is the deal breakinger here at the moment. >> what is the plan to win the war? >> well, the plan is simple. it's to keep ukrainian spirit alive and the spirit burning. look, you've asked me before why president zelenskyy is such an

iconic figure and why he's such a hero. let me tell you why. because he's setting an example, despite all the threats against his life, despite all the danger. he's staying in downtown kyiv in his office doing those videos daily and leading the nation from the middle of the battlefield. that's what true leaders do. and look, it does have effect. i know i feel sort of down today, so i'll give you some more inspiring stories, even anecdotal ones. one of the ones that we followed and we actually confirmed with the one of our news media outlets in ukraine was this hilarious story of a woman taking down a russian reconnaissance drone. so literally, what happened, picture this soviet-style high-rise residential building. middle of the night, the woman is on her balcony smoking and she hears this buzz and sees a blinking light and just a small drone used by something, and she

gets scared and gets scared because she thinks the drone will shoot at her so she probably watched too much terminator or something so she picks up a jar of marinated tomatoes and plums, throws it at the drone, the drone goes down, she runs out of the building, starts stepping on it and those stories inspire people quite a lot and there are plenty more of those. and i think the only way to win this war at the moment is to kind of keep that spirit alive. so for example, i went and bought a pineapple today. literally in the middle of a war zone, i found a pineapple, and you know, that put a smile on my daughter's faces and they hate pineapple but they got one and it's amazing. and also, look, one more insight i'll share with you. we got used to the sounds of bombs exploding. i didn't even wake up at 6:00 a.m. this morning. my wife told me there was a huge explosion. there have been plenty of those.

my kids got used to the sound of bombs exploding, and i think the key to losing or winning this war is for us parents to somehow get comfortable with the fact that our kids are used to the sound of explosions, and that's terrible. one more thing, if i may have one request, because i actually drove around kyiv today and saw volunteers and soldiers. there's a reason i'm wearing this t-shirt. i don't know if it was a russian site, operation or something else, but this image of metallica front man james hetfield, a photoshopped version has been floating around and russia has been saying, it's photoshopped and metallica doesn't support ukraine. so if you're listening, james, lars, kirk, and rob, please support ukraine and make it public. >> we'll make sure they see that. i want to ask you a serious

question about your president's decision to stay in kyiv, about your decision to stay in kyiv. you've talked about your young family and i think your nanny is there as well. it appears, and it's sometimes difficult to deduce exactly what the russian military strategy is, but it appears that they are making their way toward kyiv. do you and your family talk about making a different choice? do you talk about leaving? >> well, yeah, we talk about it a lot. at the moment, we're staying. so basically, the situation is as follows. russia is approaching from different sides. from this side where we're at, trying not to give too much away, they've slightly further away than from the other side. so, we do have a few days left. we know they're going to make that final push. one thing that we kind of agreed on doing is to actually move further into central kyiv because the more, the merrier,

that's kind of the strategy here. but look, i mean, we're definitely not going to leave for western ukraine or poland or anywhere else. this is our town. and to give you an idea of what it's like, psychologically, actually, there's one analogy that i kind of saw today. imagine being stuck in a shopping mall during a mass shooting, but it doesn't end within an hour. it goes on for 12 days now. so, you kind of go through that roller coaster of emotions. so a few days of adrenaline, fear at first, then you kind of start fighting back. and then there's a period of depression where you kind of don't know what to do. i mean, it seems like it's going to go on forever. and then you kind of get accustomed to what's happening, so you kind of start thinking rationally, so at the moment, there's no fear. there's no irrationality. there's certain degree of sadness, but i mean, we are planning on seeing this one through. and nobody, not a single person i've spoken to, even has a

shadow of doubt that ukraine's going to lose it. so, you know, we just have to make sure we survive to see the victory. let's put it this way. >> this analogy of being trapped inside a shopping mall for a mass shooting is certainly something that -- it's a fear every american lives with, so that really is a punch to the gut. thank you for taking the time to talk to us and for thinking to lift our spirits. i think you're extraordinary. thank you for taking the time again to talk to us. please stay safe. >> thank you very much. thank you. thanks. when we come back, the latest movements as we were discussing there with igor by russia's military as they try to close in on where he is at least near, kyiv and other ukrainian cities. he is at least near, kyiv and other ukrainian cities

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our friend and msnbc national security analyst, clint watts, has been tracking the movement by the russian military in its war in ukraine. he's a former consultant to the fbi counterterrorism division, now a distinguished research fellow at the foreign policy research institute. also now our man of the big board. just pick up on the conversation we have been having for the last hour and a half about what russia's end game seems to be based on what the map tells us. >> yeah, so, nicole, we focused the first week really on kyiv and it still is a center of this battle. you might have seen richard engel today reporting from

generally this area right in here. interesting suburb, 16 miles or so away from the heart of kyiv. but again, the same convoy, the same russian troops, these armor divisions, they're fighting without infantry on the ground around their armor convoys. this is particularly dangerous because you're seeing the ukrainians move in and around these armor formations, decimating these vehicles, essentially creating this log jam again. let's pop back out, though, let's look at the bigger picture. separately, what you are seeing is russia is making some advances. they're moving in, different directions in and around kyiv. sumy was a hot battle last week, making an advance here and in they can come in and circle kyiv, they can build here where they can try to move supplies around. problem for them. they've consistently made this mistake. they're bypassing large population centers and trying to just destroy them with fires. this took a massive beating but still there's resistance in these cities and as you move

further down, kharkiv, where we've seen major air battles, anti-aircraft taking down russian jets, taking losses. just this afternoon, there are some initial reports that this is contested down here. >> kharkiv? >> just south of kharkiv and to the southeast. the ukrainians claim that they've taken this back so this is in dispute, but at the same point, the russians continue to advance further than their logistics and further than areas they can control. i think that speaks to a larger problem, which is, over here in donbas, they're meeting resistance here as well so i think consistently what we're finding is russians are facing a much bigger fight. they can't resupply and i think that leads us to what we might see ultimately here happening in ukraine, which is the south. when you look to the south, in particular what you're seeing is they made this advance over a land bridge to mariupol. this is the site of a major humanitarian disaster right now, massive bombing and indirect fires. this is where literally people are no infrastructure, losing power, major problems.

and you're seeing them advance in from russia and from donbas. this is essentially surrounded. this is where you saw the russians today make a very ridiculous claim. they offered to essentially make humanitarian corridors. these humanitarian corridors, well, where do they go? they go back to russia. where ukrainian wants to leave one of these towns under siege and go into russia where they're probably not going to be treated very well? separately, the russians like using these narratives for their own disinformation at home, that ukrainians are fleeing because they're not being protected in their own country. this is a humanitarian disaster now for russia that was brought on by ukraine. the big picture -- the big takeaway that we need to be considering is in the south, where they have been more successful, they went to kherson last thursday, we talked about them taking a bridge. they moved here where they have been in battle there and once took it and then now may be contested again. there's reports that ukrainians have taken back the airfield. the goal and what we should watch for is this.

if they can get to the moldova border, this area here is one to watch. it's transnistria. this is a breakaway province here with ethnic russian populations. the russian units have been stationed there as peace keeping duty but they would unify russian forces and then could take odesa. if they take odesa, that's the financial hub of ukraine, also the port city, but more importantly, big picture, what putin has talked about for a long time is uniting all russian people under his banner in novo russian or new russian republic, which essentially stretches from here down this direction, includes down in this peninsula, and he is now extended what he is always said he wanted to do over the last two decades, bringing the russian people back under his banner. he's got a big problem, though. it's easier to invade than it is to occupy. we know this from watching us in iraq and afghanistan. he is fighting in this rear area. he's taken losses and he can't supply logistics. over time, we're going to see some sort of deal or bartering

between kyiv and in the south to see if he can get any objective that he sought to achieve. >> it's just amazing that the map definitely tells the story of what he might be thinking, although as you said, there are pockets of deep resistance all through this area. >> nicole, he is going to have such an insurgency on his hands, it will be his afghanistan the way the soviet union had afghanistan. >> wow. clint, thank you very much. i know that you have been there around the clock. we're grateful to have you there for us. a quick break for us. we'll be right back. for us a quick break fousr we'll be right back.

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♪far-xi-ga♪ i just left my home to nowhere. i have no plan. i just wanted to save my child. >> it's getting more dangerous every day, but i can't force my mom to leave the house. i cannot force my granny. she wants to stay here, so i have only one choice, to leave them here, but how can i leave them here? like it's hard to make this kind of decision. >> unimaginable. that's the emotional uncertainty for ukrainians on the ukrainian and polish side of the border, the danger those who have stayed behind and the helplessness for those who have left their homes and their families and their country as russia carries out its war in ukraine. joining our conversation is frank figliuzzi u now an msnbc

national security analyst. also joining us on set, bobby gauche, bloomberg opinion columnist covering foreign affairs. frank, i want to ask you how much of the reality of the war the image that lindsey took on the front page of "the new york times," all of the extraordinary reporting coming out of that country, the reporting from poland about the plight of the refugees, women and children. is that making its way into russia? >> most certainly not, if it is, it's because it's sneaking into russia. it's not for want of the government apparatus shutting everything down, and as we've already covered, there's a 15-year potential prison sentence for journalists who, quote, unquote, divulge fake news, very dangerous environment right now. they are not getting the story. in fact, there are russian soldiers who have been captured, who allegedly are telling the ukrainians we had no idea that there weren't fascists here.

we had no idea women and children were killed. if their military hasn't reality, then therefore the civilians in russia aren't getting reality. >> what do we do about that, bobby? >> well, we allow the ukrainians to take the lead in this, and there's been a lot of effort by ukrainians, they speak the language. they're more familiar with the culture. they've been using sort of smart tactics. it's very early days. they're using online restaurant reviews, so if you are living in moscow, there's a chance you'll find a couple of paragraphs telling you what's going on on the front. that will only really reach a very small number of people, and as soon as government authorities see that happening, they'll shut it down. you've got to keep trying, keep trying, and keep trying. people in north korea, which has been a hermit kingdom for generations now, people still have managed activists have managed to get news in so it's

possible. it takes time. it takes more energy and effort than right now the ukrainians can focus, but they're going to have to take the lead, and we're going to have to help them. >> frank, how do you assess putin's sort of mental stability at this point? >> well, look, there are professionals in the u.s. intelligence community who dom work every day, including people with m.d.s after their names and ph.d.s in psychiatry and psychology whose job it is to study his every statement, his every appearance. there were reports several months ago, perhaps last year that he had a hand tremor that he was hiding under a table, and you could -- once i had heard that from a number of people, and i watched. any appearance he made, sure enough he was hiding the same hand repeatedly under tables. he's been isolated, quarantining. there's rumor that that's more than just a fear of covid. there's even people using conjecture saying he may fear his own staff at times. this is someone who's poisoned

people. clearly he is a cornered person. everybody i talk to in the former intelligence community professionals tells me that what scares him the most is he's increasingly cornered and doesn't have an off-ramp, doesn't have a rationale to save face. he wants ukraine. he's getting his butt kicked right now. he can't trust the people around him. he knows that biden has an unprecedented amount of intelligence. it's an incredible victory for the intelligence community, but he has to be wondering, nicole, who on my staff, who in the military, who in my intelligence service is working for the united states. where are they getting this intel from? so we have a paranoid, delusional individual who's been quarantined for months or even a year. he's in a corner. this is very unpredictable, very unstable. >> and i guess on the other side is over simplifying it, but president zelenskyy on the other side has seemingly exceeded the same sort of analysis, the

expectations that he would stay not just in country but in kyiv, and the spirit of the ukrainian people, and igor novikov has told stories every time he's been on of these small acts of resistance. it's these million dots of individual acts that ultimately break a power like this one. i guess the irreconcilable piece of this is the human toll and the human tragedy of war, and i wonder how you reconcile those two realities? >> i can't begin to imagine, none of us i expect can begin to imagine what toll it takes on a president. he's leading his people at a time of war. he has to protect the country. he has to preserve the dignity of ukraine. at the same time he knows that while doing it, while resisting the russians, he's essentially dooming many, many ukrainians to their death, long-term damage. very few human beings in history have had to confront this

choice, and not a lot of them have shown the bravery that zelenskyy is showing. putin hasn't had to confront that yet, and putin has surrounded himself, i think the keyword that frank used was isolation, not just isolation because of covid but this is a tyrant who's been in charge for decades and over a period of time he's surrounded himself like all tyrants throughout history with yes men. people who don't dare tell him the truth. he doesn't feel the pain of the russian mothers whose sons are dying out in that far away battlefield to the west. zelenskyy feels it. you can see it. you can hear it in his voice. he feels it, and that makes him more human to us from a distance. that makes him more sympathetic as a character, and people like him and igor have been very smart about getting the word out. just as putin is trying to shut

down access to russia, shut down access for his people to what's going on around them, zelenskyy is going the opposite direction, maximum access, every day he's on video in the middle of a war zone. that makes it a much more compelling story. look, this was always going to be -- we were always going to sympathize with ukraine, much more than we were ever going to sympathize with russia, but having a figure like zelenskyy in the middle of it, the boy standing on the burning deck, that makes it much, much, much more sympathetic. >> thank you so much for spending some time with us today. quick break for us. we'll be right back. today. quick break for us we'll be right back. pickup, even when her bladder makes a little drop-off. because candice has poise, poise under pressure and poise in her pants. it takes poise.

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