country. to be or not to be. you know this shakespeare question. this question could be about ukraine, but not anymore. because it is obvious that the answer is to be. >> an emotional day in the uk's house of commons yesterday, as ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy delivered his historic speech to members of british parliament. >> how many times have you seen that picture? >> it is the first time that a foreign leader addressed td house of parliament in this way, and to get the standing ovation, it was remarkable. >> yes. >> of course, he'd like more than cheers and applause. >> hundreds killed and thousands injured and an estimated 2 million refugees as we enter day 14 of the russian invasion of ukraine. this morning, a worsening humanitarian crisis in the eastern city of mariupol, where

hundreds of thousands of civilians are trapped in dire straits. meanwhile, russia is pushed further away from the global economy, as the u.s. bans oil imports and more major companies suspend operations. welcome to "morning joe." it is wednesday, march 9th. let us get right to the overnight developments. ukraine announced cease-fire agreements that allowed six evacuation routes to open, but there is little let up in the violence, as russian forces continue to bombard major cities. the situation is dire in the port city of mariupol, where a humanitarian crisis is unfolding. hundreds of thousands of civilians have been trapped in the city without heat, water, and electricity for more than a week now. the constant russian shelling has also shattered phone services. we're seeing widespread threat of food and clothes. desperation. ukrainian officials say russian forces fired on a humanitarian

aid convoy yesterday that was headed toward mariupol, hindering the delivery of much-needed food, water, and medicine. according to ukraine's foreign minister, around 300,000 civilians are trapped in the city. he also said a child died from dehydration on monday pause the water supply was cut off. the country's deputy prime minister is warning the situation in mariupol is, quote, catastrophic. willie. meanwhile, u.s. officials say russia now is trying to surround kyiv from all sides. the military convoy remains stalled outside the city, but russian forces now are working on advancing from the northeastern city of sumy. one humanitarian corridor yesterday allowed about 5,000 civilians to escape from that besieged city. thousands are fleeing from other towns in and around the capital. people struggling to make the difficult journey out of the

town of irpin, where there is no official safe corridor to escape the fighting. joining us live from lviv, ukraine, molly hunter. good morning. these humanitarian corridors working in some places but critically not in others. >> reporter: willie, that's right. not really working at the mass scale that the red cross and other humanitarian groups say they need to work. when you look at a map, it is no mistake that we are focused on sumy and mariupol, cities that the russians have hit so hard over the last week. the civilians are so desperate to get out. willie, according to the icrc, the international committee for the red cross who is brokering the talks between the ukrainians and russians. sumy is the strategic route russia is looking at to reach kyiv. we're looking at sumy, mariupol, and also routes from five sircht

different suburbs of kyiv into the central city, the capital of kyiv for safety. in mariupol, as you guys have already mentioned, there was a humanitarian cargo corridor going in yesterday. we arefollowing reports of eight trucks and 30 buses. they were going to bring essential supplies into the city. water, basic medical supplies and food for survival. civilians were going to load onto the buses and get out. we never heard reports or saw evidence of civilians getting on the buses to get out. now, we have been talking to msf, doctors without borders, who have staff in mariupol. the icrc have staff in mariupol. it is unlivable. the mayor says about 300,000 people are in dire need. these are people who have been living all week without water, without heat, without electricity. every single day since saturday, saturday, sunday, monday, tuesday, and again today, there has been an attempted cease-fire in mariupol, an attempted humanitarian corridor to get the

civilians out. it's failed every single day because the russians have continued to shell in that direct area where they knew civilians were going to be evacuated, willie. >> we should point out, also, that russia wants these evacuations into russia and belarus, which is not where ukrainians, of course, want to end up. nbc news correspondent molly hunter in lviv. molly, thank you very much. joe and mika, back to mariupol, it is as dire as it can be there. putin wants to isolate that city, cut it off, connect it to crimea. bodies in streets. no food. no water. no medicine. attacking civilians in the city and across the country. >> they have no options. >> yup. >> with us here in washington, u.s. special correspondent for the bbc, katty kay. columnist and associate editor for the "washington post," david ignatius. >> it is a dire situation. it is a dire situation that's unfolding day by day, hour by hour, minute by minute. in front of americans watching all of this unfold on television, and in the only here

but across the world, it is starting to have an impact. we'll talk in a minute about how china's leader, xi, for the first time, is saying enough. and is talking to french and british counterparts and talking about the possibility of moving towards a peaceful resolution. we're still some way -- we're still a ways from that, mika, but you, yesterday, i think your good example of this, you were watching. you saw scene after scene after scene. at one point, you saw someone who you said, my god, that looks like my mother. that sounds like my mother. this is what people are seeing across the world, every day. >> well, also on the phone and on facetime with people from around the world, getting reports from my brother, whether it is inside mariupol and people who are stuck, literally with nothing, and the desperation increasing by the minute.

the trek to the border for young people, for babies but also for the very old, is deadly. some are freezing to death before they make it to a train. it is dire straits, and it is frustrating to watch because the need for collaboration around the world, and the organization, whether it be for fighter jets or for aid, the will is there but actually getting it to the people who need it, it is very, very complicated. >> well, david ignatius, i bring this up not just to say this is an emotional story, a heartbreaking story. i say it to say, these images that americans and people across the world are seeing have geopolitical implications. vladimir putin is committing war crimes by the day. again, you have chinese leadership, others that allied with him in the past that don't want to be associated with this. i'm sure xi is saying, okay, invade taiwan.

why don't we move that down on the to-do list? this isn't going particularly well for comrade putin. but i have a fear, and it's a fear that when i talk to people, and some people on this set, they start talking about the united states doing things that would trigger world war iii, that would lead to either a limited nuclear war or long-term nuclear war. that's the political, the geopolitical impact of this. americans and people across the world saying, do something. do a no fly zone, even though we can't. put boots on the ground. i heard -- i heard yesterday, former ambassador to the united nations saying, oh, yeah, we need to have a -- or to nato, saying, oh, sure, we need a no fly zone to bring people out in a humanitarian way. >> a limited one.

>> the question was asked, what if our planes are attacked? well, we'll have to attack back. >> world war iii. >> wrong answer. wrong move. yet, here we are. what did you see when you were over there? >> joe, i just returned late monday night from five days of traveling with general milley, chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, across the whole arc of nato countries that surround ukraine. we went to the ukraine border during this trip. what i saw first was the way in which the example of volodymyr zelenskyy and the bravery of the ukrainian people have set europe aflame. i mean, the passions -- >> you've never seen anything like this, have you? a united europe. a united western alliance. >> we talked about -- if you remember from your history books, the revolution of 1948. you've seen "less miserables." freedom. zelenskyy has given people the dream. you see it in every eye. drive down the streets of warsaw

or lithuania, any city in europe, you see ukrainian flags. buildings, posters saying, "bring putin to the hague, to war crimes trials." it is everywhere. >> let's put that in context. three, four year ago, two, three years ago, you had to split. you had the far right, the populous right growing, saying that we don't need nato. >> hungary. >> poland. >> so there's been a sea change, the commonly used term in europe, and you see that. you see the ways that america really is helping in secret to arm the ukrainian people. i think the no fly zone is a terrible idea. it is very high risk at relatively low benefit. but i was at a place on the border where stacks of javelin

tank killers -- you see the social media videos. all the javelins are lined up. there is a c-17 next to it, presumably that just delivered here. they are getting ready to be transported into ukraine. boom, boom, every day. all these shipments. so that's something that we're doing. the final thing i'd say is what you're talking about earlier. with general milley, our top military commander, walking this razor's edge between helping them try to win and avoiding a wider conflict that could -- we're all talking about this now -- lead, if people made mistakes, to a nuclear war. i think that's the terrible dilemma the u.s. is facing and why, in the end, the solution of this has got to be some diplomacy. putin certainly sees he's blundered. >> let's talk about that in a minute. we do need to talk about what the end game is here.

we have to start thinking about that now because -- >> and it won't be comfortable. >> tom friedman, katty kay, had a wonderful column, but not as good as david's in the "washington post," but tom friedman says putin is terrified, backed into the corner. he knows putin is going to lose. we have to get him out of the corner. that said, the fear that estonia, latvia, lithuania, poland has, i've been struck by how aggressively, not just joe biden but tony blinken has been, and general milley, one after another. every country, they say the same thing, we will not surrender an inch of nato territory. my god, people in estonia have been waiting to hear that for a very long time. >> so when i was in london about ten days ago, just when the invasion started, i was talking to people there. there was some skepticism about

whether the united states would really go to war over estonia. >> right. >> if estonia was attacked, could we really see the united states bring its full military power to defend that country that is very far away. many people wouldn't actually be able to find it on a map, it feels like. it is that far away. i think that's changed in the course of the last ten days, as we've seen -- we heard it yesterday on capitol hill with bill burns, the intelligence directors saying, what are the three things that really surprised vladimir putin? the weakness of the russian's military strategy, the strength of the ukrainian resistance, and the unity and the power of nato. i think that's what you saw. the concern is that with every atrocity, as we've been watching them this morning, and i had exactly the same reaction as you over the weekend, that could have been my mom and dad -- >> yes. >> with every atrocity committed, it is an offramp closed to vladimir putin. then what does he do? it might not be that it is estonia. we might be looking at a little

of georgia, a little bit of moldova, which is why blinken has been there, as well. it is a tougher case. >> his biggest problem is figuring out how to lose. that's where we are. he's got to figure out how to lose in ukraine. because even if he takes the major cities over -- and he hasn't taken one major city over -- he's not going to be able to hold them. there is not a military analyst on the globe that thinks he'll be able to hold the cities. just stressing two points. katty's point about us defending these smaller countries. my point about how remarkable david ignatius' column was. let me read from that quickly. the u.s. has moved an astonishing military presence from europe, 200 in hungary and 3500 bulgaria. 10,000 in poland. 38,000 in germany. forces in 17 countries and 11,000 ships at sea. it is a forbidding display of force. >> yeah, gives you chills to see

it in action. to see them mobilized there. as joe mentioned, china facing possible economic repercussions of its own, appears to be shifting its stance on the war. in conversations with the leaders of france and germany yesterday, china's president described the invasion by his ally as a war for the first time, calling the situation deeply worrying. said beijing is ready to work with the international community to prevent it from, quote, spinning out of control. yesterday, the u.s. warned if china defies u.s. restrictions on russia, beijing itself could be cut off from american equipment and software. willie? you were talking about that testimony from cia director bill burns. here's what he said yesterday about the effects he believes the russian invasion is having on china. >> i think president xi and the chinese leadership are a little unsettled by what they're seeing in ukraine. they did not anticipate the

significant difficulties the russians were going to run into. i think they're unsettled by the reputational damage that can come with their close association with president putin. >> director burns made those comments yesterday during the house intelligence committee's annual threat assessment hearing. joe, what he was getting at is china is, perhaps, a little stunned by the reaction, the response, and the rallying of the west around ukraine. to do it so quickly, over just two weeks of this invasion so far. >> and intelligence is also showing that xi is frustrated with putin because he saw. >> yes. >> i think putin saw this, and they made a dreadful, historic miscalculation. they saw a divide between america and the eu. america and nato. that's the mistake people always make with america. >> didn't know until this began. >> we talked about this before. osama bin laden said america was

a paper tiger. then he attacked. i mean, i can give you 30 examples, going all the way back to the final scene in tora, tora, tora. i'm afraid we've awakened a sleeping giant. going into ukraine, they see a people wanting to be free getting slaughtered every day. the eu and america comes together. again, as we've been saying time and time again over the past year, collectively, we have 40, 41, $42 trillion in gdp every year. russia has $1.5 trillion, the size of texas. it doesn't break their way. they don't win. the question is, how do we get an off-ramp that this -- that this madman will take? >> a lot of people thinking about that. the off-ramp hasn't emerged yet. i do think this news about xi's

interest in diffusing the conflict is really important. he is one of the people who could do it. i was pleased to see the israeli prime minister in moscow. i think that's an opportunity. as you say, joe, people misunderestimate the united states historically. >> over and over again. remember the moment when noriega was in -- you know, said if america comes down to panama, you know, they will be ensnarled in his jungle, and then two days later, he's in a prison. you have the right to keep your mouth shut. this is not when we get in trouble. he's done it. where do we go? what does that off-ramp look like, in the context that george kenin warned that the expansion

of nato was going to put -- back russia into the corner. henry kissinger warned all along that we could not turn ukraine against russia, or else there would be hell to pay. we would leave them twisting in the wind. none other than dr. brzezinski, the cold warrior of all cold warriors, said the most you can help for with ukraine is the finlandization of ukraine. we can't bring them into nato. yet, here we are. putin feels he's been pushed into a corner. how do we get him out? >> he may be giving us glimmers of that already by offering, yesterday, possible terms of resolution that are far less draconian than the kinds of things he was saying before he went in and it went so badly wrong. so he is no longer mentioning the de-nazification of ukraine. he is still talking about the

eastern regions and crimea. what he was putting on the table yesterday seems something that, actually, is the status quo that ukraine was living with anyway. >> right. >> the question now is, he has committed so many atrocities and killed so many ukrainians. >> that is a problem, isn't it? >> stirred up so much hatred in the country. will they take something that was on the table before that might have been acceptable? >> another problem is, the very regions that he has pulled into russia -- >> no longer want him there. >> -- are the regions that, at one time, gave putin the balance he needed in ukraine. since he takes the russian-leaning regions into russia and claims them as their own, all that's left is the pro-western. >> we have the maps coming up. >> we also have the mayor of o d de -- odesa, who had been pro-russia now saying he is

anti-russia and anti-invasion. he's turned pro-russian speakers in the country against him. >> catastrophic mistake of believing his own rhetoric. he brooded all last summer. he wrote this monstrous essay of 5,000 words about how the ukrainian people, the russian people are one. sort of mystical. he didn't have anybody to talk to. he obviously, you know, believed every bit of it. >> is xi the only person who can talk to him now? >> so xi can talk to him. i think possibly bennett can talk to him. macron still talks to him, reaching him. the truth is, joe, he's losing. he will never recover from this mistake. he has to decide, do i -- >> do i lose? >> do i lose? do i accept? do i amend my terms? do i accept this, or do i escalate? do i make an effort to push this into a different space? >> friedman says if he loselose

the history in russia is that he is gone. >> i wouldn't take out a life insurance policy on him right now. i sure wouldn't do that. you know, he will lose. the question is how much suffering he will inflict on the country in losing. >> we'll take a look at the maps and kind of look at what all the different isues are here. ahead, we're going live to poland, home to more than 2 million ukrainian refugees and counting. and national security analyst clint watts is at the big board breaking down the latest movements by russian forces. and we'll dive into the long-term impact of president biden's ban on russian oil. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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6:26 in the morning. live picture of the white house. the biden administration has taken a major step toward economically isolating moscow

following its invasion of ukraine. president biden announced yesterday the united states no longer will import russian oil and blames spiking gas prices squarely on vladimir putin. >> today, i'm announcing the united states is targeting the main artery of russia's economy. we're banning all imports of russian oil and gas and energy. that means russian oil will no longer be acceptable at u.s. ports, and the american people will deal another powerful blow to putin's war machine. this is a move that has strong bipartisan support with congress and, i believe, in the country. americans have rallied to support their ukrainian people and made it clear, we will not be part of subsidizing putin's war. the decision today is not without cost here at home. putin's war is already hurting american families at the gas pump. since putin began his military buildup on the ukrainian borders, just since then, the

price of gas in america went up 75 cents. with this action, it'll go up further. i'm going to do everything i can to minimize putin's price hike at home. >> the announcement was met by broad support. business roundtable, ceos who lead american companies, wrote a statement saying it commends the efforts by the administration. britain followed america's lead. the uk will phase out imports of russian oil by the end of this year. european allies, though, are more reliant on russian energy than the united states. russian oil makes up 8% of demand in the uk according to britain's business minister. ukrainian president zelenskyy praised president biden on twitter after the announcement, writing, thankful for u.s. and the president of the united states personal leadership in striking the heart of putin's war machine. joining us now, white house bureau chief at politico, jonathan lemire, and steve

leishman. we heard from nancy pelosi, then chuck schumer, then it appears they nudged the white house. >> congress pushed the white house into doing something they were reluctant initially to do. they made it clear a week or two back, the administration, that they didn't want to take this step. they were aware gas prices were surging. they were nervous about inflation. they knew this would send up prices higher. this first gained momentum on republicans. they leapt onto this issue late last week. then president zelenskyy had a zoom call with lawmakers over the weekend and made an emotional appeal for two things. the no fly zone and this ban. the no fly zone couldn't happen, but this could. it is, in ways, symbolic. the u.s. imports a small amount of russian oil. the uk joined. no other european country did. they're far more reliant on russia. this will send prices up. that worries the white house. but they felt like this is something they had to do. first of all, they want to be

simply on the right side of history on this issue. we heard from president biden yesterday, saying in no way do we want to subsidize putin's war machine. they also want to avoid a political box here. the republicans, who support the ban, too, but would blame the administration for, a, being weak on russia if they didn't do it, and, now, show they have, will blame them for rising gas prices. this was still the right decision. pelosi and schumer pushed the white house, and the president and his team knew they had to follow suit. the ban is in place. they're weighing the idea of sanctions on the russian energy sector, this would have more financial implications, send prices higher. they feel that might be the next step to take if putin doesn't back down. >> you're getting at the politics of this. republicans, yes, we support this. minute gas prices go up, it is joe biden's fault. steve, let's talk about what this move does to gas prices. $4.17 a gallon as of tuesday. it is a small percentage of the oil the united states gets. more in the uk and european

countries who aren't going along with this because they rely so much on it. >> right. >> what is the practical impact here? >> well, if i could add to what john was saying, it's not this -- this move is really symbolic in the sense that we don't use a lot of russian oil. what's happened is the other sanctions that are out there on banks and the movement of money has really caused russian oil not to be hitting the world market. shippers are reluctant to ship it. banks are reluctant to take the money for it. insurers are reluctant to insure the ship. so this ban yesterday, yeah, i listen to john on the politics, sure. but in the financial world, russian oil is sort of off the market now. that's why you have this big spike. if all we were doing was banning the 3% we imported, it'd be almost no impact. the price spike comes from the fact that russian oil is not hitting markets. the impact, i think, is going to be on low and moderate income americans.

they'll be hit hardest. it's like a tax. all of a sudden, the amount to go to work has gone up quite a bit. any driving they do, there's going to be airlines cutting back, i think, on some flights that aren't full. you'll have all kinds of changes in the economy because of it. one difference this time from all of the price spikes. america's energy balance is about zero. we import and export about the same. this is the first price spike we have been through. so you're going to have a huge surge in oil company profits. the question is how much they do in terms of additional drilling to put the money back into the economy. >> steve, let's talk about how remarkable this is. a week ago, we talked about the possibility of banning russian oil. people say, it is impossible. we can't do it. the "wall street journal" that day had a helpful chart, saying we get 7% from russia. a week later, you have joe biden making the announcement with a lot of republicans pressuring him.

how out of the ordinary is this for the united states to go so aggressively after russia, even though americans though it is going to cause prices to go up at the pump? >> you know, this whole thing is amazing, in terms of the sanctions. look, russia is the 11th largest country in the world. it's a g20 nation. we have never put sanctions like this almost on any country. in fact, there's -- the atlantic council counts sanctions. russia has surpassed iran in terms of the total number of sanctions on it. we've never essentially sanction bombed a country. having been there in the early '90s, they're back to where they were in terms of commerce, as they were in the soviet times. russians can't spend money abroad.

they have to give money back to the central bank. these are things i saw when i was there in the '90s. >> i want to ask about another story that broke yesterday. read in the "financial times," of course you've heard congressional republicans talking about supporting biden's decision to ban russian oil imports. but they're also wanting to take back the house and senate this fall. they're trying to capitalize on the situation by saying the administration is at fault for the rising gas prices. some are arguing that biden is not doing enough to open up domestic oil production. in fact, the administration racketed up pressure on u.s. shell producers, according to the "financial times." the producers are told to do, quote, whatever it takes to increase supply and maintain oil prices. you had the state department envoy and coordinator for international affairs saying it is not a u.s. government problem if there is a bottleneck. it is on wall street. they should call their financiers and tell them there is a war going on. of course, he made that

statement after talking to a lot of oil producers who said their shareholders right now don't want to go through another round of risky and expensive exploration. what's your take on this? is the bottleneck at wall street, or is the bottleneck in washington, d.c.? >> i'm sorry, joe, if my answer is unsatisfying, but it is both. let's be clear, the biden administration has not been friendly to the oil business. they came in after an administration that kind of ignored the climate change. this administration said it is a big deal. they urged people to do it. they weren't all that friendly. they weren't all that unfriendly. but look what's happened. let's be clear about the history of this. oil prices tanked in 2020 with the pandemic. the hedge funds, wall street got their head handed to them when it came to the investments that they made there. they promised never again. the oil executives came forward and said to shareholders, we're going to be very careful about the next time oil prices rise,

about doing development and developing new fields. >> right. >> so it is really both. if you ask me, what was happening, okay, let me give you numbers. 250 rigs above where we were a year ago for a total of 650 right now. we're 1.6 million barrels a day above where we were a year ago for about 11.6 million barrels a day. 11.5 million under still. oil prices were probably on the way down until this came along. so i would say the administration could have been more friendly to the oil business, but wall street certainly was holding back. the oil companies themselves were trying not to maximize production because they had the losses back in 2020. >> you can certainly understand why the oil industry was doing that. obviously, the situation changes a lot. steve, thank you for being with us. >> thanks, steve. jonathan lemire, will there

be a new bumper sticker coming out of the white house, "drill, baby, drill." sounds like that's their position. >> we heard from the president yesterday, urging the private oil companies to say, look, you have the permits. you have the ability to do more drilling. you should do that. take advantage of that. you already have this authorization to do so. the white house is considering other measures to try to boost domestic energy production here to offset what they're stopping bringing in from russia. we do know there are some in the administration who think europe could follow suit. at least some european countries could follow suit and also cut off energy consumption from russia. it would be more painful there, for certain. there's some who fear it could trigger a recession on the continent if that were to happen. we heard from germany that they don't want to do it. there is some possibility, if the war continues, they might do the same. certainly, the politics of this, joe, are front of mind now for the white house, as well. they are watching the prices soar as we head into a midterm

year. >> you know, katty, it is unrealistic. republicans and you hear democrats also saying, turn on the spigot right now. do this right now. begin trading with venezuela right now. whatever we're going to do is going to take six months, a year. you don't just turn on a switch. yes, i mean, republicans saying that this is all the administration's fault, no, it's not. market forces gave oil companies a good reason to pull back during covid. it takes a while to restart the exploration. the same people who understand the oil industry understand the last thing we want is for the eu to follow suit. you want prices to go up. have the eu pull back, as well, and then have a real shortage on the world market. suddenly, phew. we should be careful what we wish for when it comes to the eu. >> the question is not so much oil, it's gas, right? the price of gas which heats european's homes, and we're still in the cold of a european

winter at the moment, is the equivalent of something like, if it was oil, $500 a barrel. i mean, it is astronomical. europeans are paying four times what they were paying last year. they were already paying three times. it shot up since then. it is hard to replace that gas because there aren't the pipelines installed from the poor ports to the distribution centers. all of this is going to take time to step up. in the meantime, of course, this is the main source of foreign exchange with vladimir putin. he can't really access the reserves he had abroad, but he's still getting foreign exchange to fund the war from his sales of oil. >> it is interesting, david. germany is already fast tracking lnf facilities for receiving natural gas. there has been the suggestion, if biden wants to do something quickly, fast track lng

facilities. it'd make a difference over time in getting the prices down and helping the europeans. >> i don't think europe is going to be the same after putin's invasion. i think there are going is to be many changes politically, militar militarily, in terms of energy dependence. >> right. >> putin's miscalculation spreads across so many different levels. i think russia, over time, is going to become more european. young russians are not happy with this war. they're going to, i think, want to draw -- >> they've seen it on their phones. >> they've seen this illusion of the empire is bringing russia misery. you know -- >> they're being cut off from the west. >> they're losing -- russians like the window on the west. they like being part of the modern world. the extent of this miscalculation is extraordinary. the challenge is to navigate this process, which leads to a long-term success for the west, i think. >> that could not -- >> without dangers that could

suddenly explode and make this a much more dangerous world. >> one more thing we have to bring up, as contemptible, and i say utterly contemptible, as donald trump has been toward vladimir putin from the very beginning, we do remember him giving angela merkel hell about that pipeline and giving her hell about germany's dependence on russian oil. as my mom used to say, even a squirrel can find a nut every once in a while. that was the nut he found. he got one thing right. remember him just poking the germans? >> he said in europe, you need to spend more in defense. he was right about that, too. >> so the blind squirrel found two nuts. >> thank you for your reporting this morning. of course, we'll be following your coverage, breaking news coverage on this story at 5:00 a.m. eastern every day on "way too early." still to come on "morning joe," a growing number of u.s. companies are cutting ties with russia in response to the

country's invasion of ukraine. we'll tell you which ones. plus, russia appears to have a new strategy for attacking ukraine's capital. national security analyst clint watts joins us at the maps for a closer look at putin's plans. we'll be right back. hey google. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ and it's easy to get a quote at libertymutual.com so you only pay for what you need. isn't that right limu? limu? sorry, one sec. doug blows a whistle. [a vulture squawks.] oh boy. only pay for what you need. ♪liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty♪

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beautiful shot of the capitol. sun coming up. 6:46 a.m. on the east coast. let's go to national security analyst for nbc news and msnbc, clint watts. he brought the big board down from new york city. tough getting that checked on the shuttle, but you got it down here. great to see you. >> it is collapsible. >> fantastic. >> all right. where are we, clint? >> quick update today. week one, we saw the failure of the hail mary strategy of the invasion. week two, we saw the shift to conventional invasion. that's really what we're looking at today. i want to start off with what you're seeing is these three

axes of advance. from sumy to the east and to the northeast of the city, it's a new corridor. the convoy we were talking about last week, we are seeing signs it is moving to the west. it takes us to the big picture in town. when you go to kyiv and look at what's going on here, essentially, they'd be facing off against multiple fronts if this comes through. here, in irpin, where we've seen richard engel the last couple days, major humanitarian issues. lots of people evacuating. i'd expect to the west, you'll see the ukrainian army will have to defend on multiple fronts which will dynamically change the situation in kyiv. this will look a lot like a siege, which we've seen in other parts of the country. zoom back out. we've seen this in mariupol, which is essentially surrounded. this is the evacuation from sumy we were talking about yesterday. the bigger picture, some things to think about.

it appears they're advancing from kharkiv today, trying to go south. if they can link up, they would essentially be cutting off the eastern portion of ukraine. this would be devastating. they could then take their forces, which they already controlled here on the east, and push them this direction. i think that goes to the bigger picture of what is vladimir putin's plans? what are his options? several different things going on. this initial advance to mariupol is essentially secure. they've set up logisticals. we saw an armored train. it was a world war ii looking kind of aspect, appeared yesterday. separately, they have stalled and were having trouble elsewhere. if you look at the strategy and how it is shaping out, yes, they're going toward kyiv. that was initially to topple the government. what is the big picture? if you listen to vladimir putin over time in terms of history, he talks about a new russia.

the idea essentially of unifying ethnic russians under one umbrella. this is not accurate as to what is going on on the ground. but can he bring russia back from past centuries, unite all the people to the black sea, and get transnistria. i think it brings us back to the big, big picture, which is here. if you look at all his attacks over the last ten years, remember, georgia, azerbaijan, they have peacekeepers down there, and look out here. this is why nato is worried. he essentially could try to make the land bridge which was one russia. it'd stretch down like this. he would control all the way down and would essentially be bringing the russian people back under the umbrella.

something we used to think about in the soviet time. >> clint, we've shown how valiantly the ukrainian military has been fighting. civilians taking up arms. we had an interview yesterday with a woman who delivered her children to safety in poland and returned to help fight alongside her husband. we're hearing stories like that again and again. how long can those brave people stand up against a pretty big russian military? is there a sense of inevitability? though it may be taking longer than putin wanted it to take, that he will get eventually to kyiv? >> often, we confused how we've seen western, u.s. military work. we move quickly. we move at night. russians slow, deliberate, and prodding. they take casualties, and they ultimately keep moving. i think in the east, you're seeing desperation in some of the cities. we're seeing infrastructure out. no power. no water. we're in the middle of win thor here. starvation is starting to set up. i think it is a real humanitarian disaster out here. one thing to kind of consider throughout all of this though,

we're seeing foreign fighters pop up here to the west. even in kyiv. remember i mentioned armenia, azerbaijan, and the conflict they've been in? there were some azerbaijan fighters showing up to fight the russians. don't be surprised if we see slow trickles of anyone who has some angst against russia showing up to fight them in ukraine. >> as we look at the map, we've been hearing stories time and again about how the ukrainians have pushed back, as willie was saying, and have been brave. when you see where the russians are advancing, if, in fact, they have time to slowly move and do what they want to do with their mass of fighters, it looks like they're moving in the direction that you were talking about. in time, if putin is given enough time by the world community, by china, by others, it looks like he is on his way to creating that greater russia

map. can you again show us that -- right there. >> yeah. >> especially if he succeeds in cutting off russians -- or cutting off the ukrainians, which he is attempting to do in the north-south route. >> yeah. he could do it. i think the big question, joe, is how would he keep it? in all these areas, we were talking about kharkiv yesterday. we discussed the general that was killed there. they've got ukrainian resistance that's popping back up and taking territories. same down here in mykolaiv. they're losing ground at times. you know, how are they going to do logistics? this is the army of on occupation, different from invasion. i don't know how they'd hold this over time or constitute this ultimately. that is putin's flaw in all his flans. even if he wanted to make this and takes the turf, he can't keep it. >> yeah. to your point, katty has shown a

video, just re-tweeted a video from the only regional capital that fell. ukraiian protesters. there is open fire, and it doesn't stop the protesters. it mobilized them more. you look at the video. it is older people. younger people. pure anger. clint, no fear. that is the grandest, greatest miscalculation that he's made. we all remember, just for people looking at this map, remember how quickly we got to baghdad. remember how quickly we occupied iraq. that was just the beginning of our problems. >> president zelenskyy has a motto, i'm not afraid. i think it filters down to his people. >> yeah. >> they're unafraid. they're angry. they're standing strong. >> clint, talk about, when you have people that are unafraid

like this, they're going up against russian kids who have no memories of the cold war, no memories of the twilight struggle between the east and the west, and, in fact, weren't even told they were going in to fight their slavic brothers and sisters. >> yeah. think what's remarkable in all of this is that you have a situation where, essentially, you have ethnic russians in ukraine that are then staying with ukraine. they're not essentially fighting russia. there's countless videos of them essentially not taking that extra step that they might have taken, by the way, in a place like syria where it was mass destruction of cities, just killing on a huge scale. these russian soldiers don't seem like they're wanting to fight. they're not sure why they're there. they didn't know why they're there. they have relatives, friends, and family in ukraine. this is an area that essentially was free-flow in travel before. if you can't have the soldiers stand up and fight, i don't know how they maintain this over time. it seems impossible.

>> just like mika said, she saw people that reminded her of her eastern european mother. a russian soldier, is she going to lift a gun and shoot a grandmother who looks like his grand mother? it is different, david ignatius. >> this is the dilemma for putin. clint's map shows so clearly this desire that they have to carve out a new empire, the russian lands. the problem is that the people who live in those lands, certainly in ukraine, hate them. they will fight them. they're fighting them every day. every hour, as katty's video shows. the tank rolls through, and they get out in the streets. they get on top of the tank and wave the ukrainian flag on top of the tank. they're just on fire with the sense of nationalism and patriotism. they're not going to stop fighting. these columns that keep trying to approach kyiv, the reason they can't make it there is because in the woods, there are

people with anti-tank weapons of all kinds. pow, pow. they have got a defense in depth. if putin gets to kyiv, he will have to go street to street. remember the battle of stalingrad? he'll have to fight for every street in kyiv. for the russians, it's a prospect of continuing war. even if they think they've secured it, they don't have an occupation army that is close to big enough. in essence, they need three times the forces they've got there now if they're going to try to occupy the country. in a sense, the problems just get worse for putin if you draw this out. it is one reason to be careful about a western reaction that gets him off the hook. if this keeps going, his problems get worse. >> david ignatius, thank you very much. clint watts, thank you, as well. still ahead, poland blindsides the u.s. with a proposal to get fighter jets to ukraine. why the pentagon says the plan

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i think putin is angry and frustrated right now. he is likely to double down and try to grind down the ukrainian military with no regard for civilian casualties. but the challenge that he faces, and this is the biggest question that's hung over our analysis of his planning for months now, as the director said, he has no sustainable political end game in the face of what is going to continue to be fierce resistance from ukrainians. >> cia director williams burns with that assessment yesterday on putin's state of mind.

it is the top of the hour. welcome back to "morning joe." let's get to the latest out of ukraine this morning. there are new efforts to rescue civilians, as russia and ukraine agree to cease-fires that would open six humanitarian corridors. it comes after some 5,000 people were able to evacuate yesterday. the first successful mission of its kind since the war began 14 days ago. there is a worsening humanitarian crisis in the port city of mariupol. hundreds of thousands of civilians have been trapped there without heat, water, and electricity for more than a week now. it is freezing. the constant russian shelling has shattered phone services. we saw the red cross on the scene yesterday handing out aid. according to the united nations, 474 civilians have been killed in ukraine so far, including 29 children. nearly 900 people have been

injured, although those numbers could be much higher. the number of refugees now stands at more than 2 million, with 1.3 million fleeing to poland. on the economic front yesterday, the u.s. announced a ban on russian oil imports, while iconic american brands like mcdonald's, coca-cola, pepsi, and starbucks joined the growing list of businesses suspending operations in russia. china also signalled a shift in its stance. president xi calling the invasion a war for the first time, saying beijing is ready to join the international be community in preventing the situation from, quote, spinning out of control. the bbc's katty kay still with us. joining us now, staff writer at the "atlantic," anne applebaum. editor in chief, goldberg. claire mccaskill served on the armed services committee. in new york, msnbc contributor

mike barnicle is with us. all along with joe, willie, and me. >> claire, you served on the armed services committee. seeing all of this over the last decade move toward where we are right now. i watch commentators talking about no fly zones as if they're talking about, you know, putting on an addition to their house. acting as if there are no consequences to it. americans are watching every night these horrors unfold on the television set. they just want america to do something. what's your recommendation? what does the united states need to do right now that it is not doing? >> i think, frankly, joe biden has hit his stride, along with our allies. it feels like we're back to normal with the west united in almost a monolithic fashion. unlike we've seen in decades. and i think, really, the only thing we have to do is make sure

that the american people understand that this russian oil thing, i mean, we're the number one producer of oil in the world. it is a small amount. you guys have gone over it. >> 70%, right. >> you've gone over it over the last segment. so i think joe did -- i think president biden did the right thing with the oil decision he a announced yesterday. we need to understand, no fly zone over ukraine means we're going to war with russia. >> a nuclear war, world war iii. >> exactly. so you can't say no fly zone. what you have to say is, gosh, let's go to war with russia. >> right. >> so that's why what they're doing -- >> if that's what you're saying, it's the same thing. >> quick saying no fly zone. say, "let's go to war with russia." >> right. >> as long as we're doing what we're doing with nato, as long as putin is as cornered as he is, and as you said, what i'm most worried about, he has no off-ramp. >> that's what we can't figure out. >> that's the scariest. how does he get out of this? globally, for my friends up the

hill, let's remember one thing. this is happens when you surround yourself with people who tell you what you want to hear. >> claire, bill clinton. i always am amused by bill clinton. if gas prices started to go up 2, 3 cents, he immediately went to action. bill clinton was an extraordinary politician. i'm struck by the fact that you have republicans and democrats locked arm-in-arm -- and i think it is a patriotic thing to do -- saying, to hell with gas prices going up. this is worth the cost at the pump. how surprised have you been over the past week that we've moved from, when we made the suggestion here last week, i got flooded with emails from economists and other people saying, this is impossible, the task. never happening in america. seven days later, joe biden had to rush to do it to beat the republicans on the hill from doing it. >> that's exactly right. the interesting thing is, they're still going to try to

blame biden for high gas prices. that won't change. that's like the sun coming up in the morning, it is biden's fault. >> right. >> but the other interesting thing happening here is a fog with venezuela. keep in mind, venezuela has the most petroleum in reserve of any country in the world, way more than we do. they're number one. we're 11 in terms of what we have in reserve. if we can wrench venezuela out of russia's grasp at this point and get them to release more petroleum, maybe biden can have an impact. you do tell they're working on that back channel. venezuela released prisoners yesterday, meaning there is a fog going on. >> anne, you wrote one of the most important books for all of us to understand what was happening in america. to the trump right, explaining it'd happened in europe first. it seems so many of those dividing lines have been swept away over the past two, three,

four weeks. talk about this -- >> some still exist. >> some exist, of course. i don't expect you to sing happy days here, you of all people. >> don't do that. >> that would be very unusual. >> i'll record it. >> no mr. sunshine. >> join in the chorus. >> let's put it this way, all of the post-war institutions that the trump right and the populist right loved mocking and pushing to the side suddenly seem more relevant than they've been in 40, 50 years. >> so i think a few things are happening. yes, you're absolutely right, the nato, european union, all of the institutions that are capable of springing the west together, bringing the democratic world together, operating together, are working and functioning. much better, i think, than anybody expected them to. i slightly worry that we're still fighting -- this is what we should have done in 2014, and there are more forward-looking

things we could be doing now. for example, holding nato exercises in the baltic, just to take a few russian troops out of the ukrainian area. but, yes, they're working. another really important thing, though, that's happening is something that zelenskyy himself is leading, the president of ukraine. he is showing us that some of the cultural divides that we are used to, you know, don't have to exist. so he's showing us that, on the one hand, you can have an open society. you can defend it. on the other hand, you can be patriotic. you can use the word nationalist. you know, you can vigorously defend your open society. those things aren't necessarily opposites. >> yeah. >> so he's demonstrating that some of our divisions are unnecessary. >> okay. and we also -- willie geist, we saw yesterday zelenskyy making a historic address to the house of commons. look at this report real quick,

then i want to talk to you about it on the other side. [ applause ] >> translator: all the world's a stage. all the men and women nearly players. but this actor has turned president, and his stage the theater of war. his audience not just parliamentarians, but a nation and from london and all across the country, his own people, too. the question for us now is to be or not to be. you all know this shakespeare question. for 13 days, this question could be asked. now, i can give you a definitive answer. it is definitely yes, to be. >> the performance by president zelenskyy heard in silence by the prime minister and hundreds of mps. a translation in their headsets. >> translator: i would like to remind you of the worlds the united kingdom have heard before

and are important again. we will not give up, and we will not lose. we will fight at sea and in the air. we will continue fighting for our land, whatever the cost. >> invoking the eloquence of shakespeare and the fortitude of churchill. it was a plea like any other ever heard in this chamber. >> reporter: i am grateful, boris. please increase the sanctions. please recognize russia as a terrorist state. please make sure our ukrainian skies are safe. please make sure you do what needs to be done and what is stipulated by the greatness of your country. >> in his response, boris johnson promised to deliver what is needed, but no sign of the military action the president asked for. >> we will employ every method that we can, diplomatic, humanitarian, and economic, mr. speaker, until vladimir putin has failed in this disastrous venture and ukraine is free once more. >> ukrainians in britain pleased their president's voice is being heard here.

>> i'm incredibly proud that i'm ukrainian. i have a president like that. >> i just realize how -- how big we are. unfortunately, it's happened in this horrible situation, but i'm very proud of him. >> tightening the screw on russia will come at a cost at home too. >> we either pay it now by dealing with the threat russia poses and the reality that we are going to have a serious squeeze in energy prices that are going to rise. that's going to knock-on to food prices and other prices, too. the alternative is we ride it down and wait until we are more vulnerable. >> westminster knows fail your means tragedy on the world stage. nobody wants that played out. >> sam coates from sky news reporting there. it was extraordinary and unprecedented, to see a foreign leader addressing parliament in the way president zelenskyy did yesterday. he had echoes of churchill's we

will fight on the beaches speech from june of 1940. ukrainians fighting in the forests and the streets. he cited shakespeare. i think he only left out the beatles as he was appealing to parliament there. what was the impact of that? he spoke to congress a couple days ago. yesterday, president biden stopped the influx of russian oil into the united states. his performance, his address, the power of his speaking is having an impact. >> yes. the first time a foreign leader has addressed parliament in this way. you saw the standing ovation he got. when i was listening to that, i thought, this is a remarkable thing about zelenskyy. he's been holed up most of the time in a bunker the last ten days, two weeks. he still manages to get his speechwriters, or maybe he writes it himself, to the british parliament in which he invokes our most hallowed, historic -- he invokes churchill, shakespeare. >> he's seen "love actually." goes through the list. >> clearly seen "love actually." he drew on his skills and drew

them at parliament. it hasn't worked to the extent he would want it to work. yes, he got the applause. yes, the uk joined the oil ban. it is not a great cost to the uk because we don't import much russian oil, unlike the rest of the europeans. he's not getting the no fly zone from the uk and not planes. he's not getting as many refugees from ukraine admitted to the uk as other european countries are taking. so he's getting the applause and getting the love, but the one thing he is asking for, which as we have discussed in the course of this program, is that no fly zone. as claire was saying earlier, it's a no-go for the europeans and for nato. >> jeffrey goldberg, as we listen to the excerpts of that speech, i'm wondering what you think about this. we are clearly, think, at a defining moment in our history as a country and as, perhaps, a world. you can't go to europe. you can't go to europe for years without feeling the shadow of world war ii lingering over

countries still fighting a war today. here in this country, we have a dwindling demographic of people who do remember the sacrifices that americans made in world war ii. what's your view of everything coming together to make this defining moment last? >> you know, it's interesting. someone said to me the other day that this conflict puts the expression "micro aggression" into some sort of context. >> proper context, yeah. >> or passive-aggressive. this is just aggression. it is a reminder that there's two fundamentally different systems at work on this planet. there's an authoritarian system, authoritarian mindset. it didn't go away. we didn't reach the end of history, as discussed in the 1990s. we haven't lost ourselves. i mean, the interesting thing about zelenskyy to me is he is reminding us of who we are. >> yes. >> in a kind of very, very

interesting, spiritual way almost. he's saying that, you know what, there are qualitative differences t. west is flawed. democracy is flawed. human beings are flawed. but it is a very good reminder to a new generation, a young generation, of americans and europeans, that democracy, as flawed as it is, is worth holding on to and fighting for. the danger coms because you have inexperienced people who back into history, watch what putin is doing, and thinking the u.s. can just go in and solve it. this is not necessarily, katty, joe, and others have been talking about this, it is not easily solved. zelenskyy is not going to get what we actually wants from the west, a no fly zone. but, on the other hand, there is a new generation of americans, i think, who are looking and saying, oh, that -- >> invigorated. >> -- is what the world is. >> anne, it's what defined our world view, my world view growing up in georgia, your

world view growing up -- i believe you grew up in washington. >> i did. >> around washington. but we grew up in the heart of the cold war. there was good and bad, right and wrong. post cold war, we've been hearing there really wasn't much of a difference. we've been hearing it on american tv stations. >> from the left and the right. >> from the left and the right, yes. >> yes. >> that's the curious part, the right, coming from the right was curious. >> this is what is interesting. we grew up looking at useful idiots from the far left telling us, come on, there's really not much of a difference between russia. now, we're hearing the useful idiots on the right who, three weeks ago, they were saying putin will never invade. now, they're saying, why don't they just go back -- and perhaps they are -- and lifting words from the far, far left, saying, okay, yeah, putin did invade,

but it is america's fault. for the rest of us, left and right, mainstream, we're reminded once again that we can't escape history. you look at these pictures. we cannot escape history. there are forces from good in this world, and as flawed as we are, the united states, micro aggressions and all, have been a force for good. fed and freed more people than any country in the history of this world. then you have russia who, for the past 300 years, let's just face it, have been neighbors. constant by pushing westward. >> they've also victimized themselves. >> right. >> the russians brutal regimes who undermined their own culture and own nation. yes, i think the -- what we're remembering is that we didn't

disinvent authoritarianism. we didn't disinvent aggression. military aggression will come back. it is real. right now, it is coming from russia. in the future, it might come from someone else. the need to defend ourselves, the need to maintain our alliances, because one of the things that makes the united states so powerful and so much more powerful than other states is that we have real strong allies who are not just, you know, fly by night allies, but they feel they're part of the same political system and the same world we are. maintaining those and keeping that up and maintaining those alliances is part of what we need to do the next decade. >> not too long ago, we actually -- our previous president worked aggressively to undermine nato, to undermine nato leaders. >> he did. he did. i think one of the reasons why this is happening now is that putin has assumed that that undermining was successful. >> right. >> europe and america had been

divided. >> we haven't talked about this much. >> that we wouldn't work together. that, you know, trump had successfully, you know, dismissed the europeans and that we weren't part of the political -- we didn't have the same ideas. >> damage to the world order. >> he did not expect a united response, either militarily or economically, that he's had. still ahead on "morning joe," ukraine's president has been begging for those fighter jets to protect his people, but the pentagon says a proposal to get them from poland can't happen. plus, a first for crypto. president biden is expected to sign an executive order to address the digital currency. we'll talk to a top white house adviser about that. and we'll go live to the border, straight ahead on "morning joe."

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are children. the united nations refugee agency says an additional 1 million people have been displaced inside ukraine, forced from their homes. more than 1.3 million refugees have evacuated safely to poland. joining us now from the polish border with ukraine, nbc news correspondent kelly cobiella. kelly is at the key train station where we have been watching refugees arrive. kelly, what does it look like there today? >> reporter: well, there's simply no let up to the number of people coming here, willie. we're seeing, once again, thousands of families arrive at this train station, just inside those doors. that's a big ticket hall. there are loads of volunteers trying to give the people information, giving them a warm drink, telling them what to do next. what people are told now, now that we are 14 days since this conflict started, is that there's simply no space in the

town left to sleep. a family has been traveling two days to reach the border. a grandmother, mother, and her daughter. they were told you have to go to a bigger city. we were going to try to get on a bus to warsaw, a 5-hour bus ride. look for some shelter there. if they weren't successful, they said, we don't know where we'll go. maybe we'll try germany. the u.n. high commissioner for refugees said dealing with this volume of people is a logistical nightmare. so many people have come to poland, and it is difficult to get them the support they need in a systematic way. we're seeing it play out on the ground. there are big, big shelters opening up in cities like warsaw. willie, one of the biggest shelters we've seen being set up in the past couple days has 10,000 beds. as of yesterday, 2,000 spaces were already full. 10,000 beds when we're talking

about tens of thousands arriving in this country alone every day, it simply isn't enough. willie? >> extraordinary numbers. 1.3 million people into poland alone just in the last two weeks. that's the equivalent of a major american city like dallas or something arriving across the border. nbc's kelly cobiella at the polish border with ukraine. thank you so much. there are new developments on a proposal to spend fighter jets to ukraine. poland now says it will give its russian-made planes to ukraine. but it wants the united states to deliver them from an air force base in germany. pentagon rejected that idea last night, saying, quote, we do not believe poland's proposal is a tenable one. the problem with the plan, according to the pentagon, is that the jets would take off from a u.s. nato base and fly into contested air space over ukraine. the pentagon says that would raise serious concerns for the entire nato alliance.

u.s. officials say they were blindsided by the proposal, which was posted to a polish government website. poland's offer appeared to be in an attempt to show it was willing to help ukraine, while shifting the responsibility and risk of russian retaliation to the u.s. this, obviously, very complicated. a complicated operation, claire, because putin will, perhaps, move the goalpost and see anything as an act of war. >> well, it kind of would be. >> yeah, i mean, if you're flying jets from a nato base -- >> exactly. >> how do you move them in? >> here's the thing. listen, i don't want to even develop a little crack of disagreement among our allies right now. but poland putting this on a website before calling internally among the people who work with each other in nato and among our military to military is a sign they really wanted this for the headline.

i don't think it was a realistic proposal. i think poland knew that. anne may have more thoughts. >> tony blinken said this on the sunday shows last weekend, though. i listened to the tape. he have pretty clear. we would support poland's efforts to give the ukrainians planes, and we will backfill. >> well, that would be fine. poland didn't want to give them to them. they wanted the united states to give them to them. if poland wants to give soviet fighter jets, there is nothing stopping them from doing that. them wanting to pull the united states in is what felt weird to me. why do they need the united states to do this? >> also interesting, i had heard when that was first floated that the jets that were supposed to backfill actually are intended for taiwan. so there's not even the question of whether we would have those jets to backfill. i think everybody needs to, again, take a step back. >> it is frustrating because there's a plea for the jets. >> of course. >> there is a plea for the jets.

at the same time, again, right now, jeffrey, you have a slavic nation fighting a slavic nation. you have putin being an aggressor against the ukrainians. at some point, i mean, all putin wants is to make this a russia versus nato, a russia versus united states war. these proposals are dangerous. i'm going to say, i want to say it again, people getting on american cable shows and broadcast shows talking about this -- asking, why are we being weak? why aren't we putting a no fly zone in? the recklessness in those questions, it's dumbfounding. i can't believe presidents of networks don't yank them off the air and say, if you want to start world war iii, and as claire said, why don't you rephrase your question? hey, should we start world war iii? >> to establish a no fly zone,

you'd have to kill russians manning anti-aircraft defenses. you have to take them out before you can impose a no fly zone. that is an act of war. the larger point here is that i think every day, we're going to come up against a version of this poland controversy. which is to say, well-meaning people want to do something for ukraine, right? >> right. >> every day, there is going to be a proposal. every day, one of the proposals are going to bump up against a hard reality. russia is a nuclear power. russia wants a confrontation with nato. there's only so far that -- >> underline that again. that's what is critical. putin wants the confrontation against nato because he's losing now. >> right. he wants for domestic consumption, obviously. he can't arrest everybody in russia. maybe he can, actually. >> yeah. >> literally happened before. >> you can arrest a lot of

people in russia, but you can't arrest everyone. to frame this in east-west terms, it'll bring china back onto -- china is wobbly on the whole russia question. >> right. >> a little bit right now. >> they're getting more wobbly by the moment. >> it is messing up their broader plans. >> xi, he's got his to-do list. invading taiwan has gone from number two to number seven. >> yeah. >> i mean, it hasn't worked out well. as we talk about the ukrainians, too, and since we have you here, you wrote not only -- you wrote a book about what stalin did to ukraine. how he systematically killed between 3 and 4 million ukrainians. there's people alive today who remember that. >> yes. to me, the most frightening aspect of this war is putin's use of this genocidal language. we're going to wipe ukraine off the map. it is a nation that doesn't exist. when you talk about nations that don't exist or shouldn't exist or don't need to be here

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today, i am announcing the

united states is targeting the main artery of russia's economy. we're banning all imports of russian oil and gas and energy. that means russian oil will no longer be acceptable at u.s. ports, and the american people will deal another powerful blow to putin's war machine. this is a move that has strong bipartisan support with congress and, i believe, in the country. americans have rallied to support their ukrainian people and made it clear, we will not be part of subsidizing putin's war. russia may continue to grind out its advance at a horrible price, but this much is already clear, ukraine will never be a victory for putin. putin may be able to take a city, but he'll never be able to hold the country. if we do not respond to putin's assault on global peace and stability today, the cost of freedom and to the american people will be even greater tomorrow. >> that's president biden yesterday at the white house, announing the united states no

longer will import russian oil. the latest move to economically isolate moscow in response to its invasion of ukraine. joining us now, deputy national security adviser for economics, daleep singh. he also serves on the economic council. great to have you with us. even a week ago, as we've been discussing this morning, seemed to be an extreme step, to cut off oil from the united states. last week, speaker pelosi was in support of the idea. then majority leader schumer. yesterday, the announcement from you all at the white house. can you talk about how you came to this decision and why you believe it is significant? >> morning, willie. look, we're exci committed to m this brutal and needless war by putin a strategic failure. we've landed a debilitaing hit on the economy. it is in free fall. currency is worth less than a penny. stock market that be shut for eight days. country is downgraded to junk.

the private sector is leaving in a mass exodus. there is no sector of putin's economy that is safe, energy. that's the only place where it has relevant in the global economy, and we're taking aim at that, as well. >> russian oil makes up a relatively small percentage of what we do import and use here in the united states. there have been some concerns, even among republicans who backed this idea and support what you're doing on russian oil, who worry about spiking gas prices. what can you say to people watching today, already paying an average of $4.17 a gallon, about what may be coming at the pump? >> first of all, i'd glad to live in a country where 70% of the people out there believe in holding putin to account, even if it means higher gas prices. that was heartening to see the poll earlier this week. the president said we're going to tell the truth. this war by putin is not going to be costless. it is not going to be painless. gas prices at the pump have been up 75 cents since he started to amass troops on ukraine's border

in early november. that's hitting families and businesses across the country. especially lower income households that pay a higher share of their income in energy. look, there are things that we can do. we need to boost supply all over the world, starting at home. the private sector has the leases, has the permits. it has the price signal. it should pump more. we should find a way, very quickly, to speed our transition toward cleaner, sustainable sources of energy. there are also producers abroad, willie, with spare capacity, all over the world. it is time for them to use the spare capacity. for those countries with strategic reserves, 1.5 billion across the world, there is also the time to release those reserves and deal with this acute supply shortage in energy markets. >> mr. singh, how does the president's order affect pre-existing orders of oil and gas from russia, or multi-national contracts which are convoluted?

how does it affect those items? >> hi, mike. no new contracts of russian oil, russian coal, russian natural gas. we are going to honor existing contracts for a period of time. that's only meant to have an orderly wind down of cargoes on the water. >> does this situation in russia and the need for more domestic production give you any pause and cause you tore-evaluate the president's decision over keystone? >> that's a distraction, willie. keystone is a pipeline, not an oil field. it doesn't produce additional oil. even if keystone xl had been permitted last year, it would have been years away from completion. it wouldn't have helped in today's circumstance. there is a portion of keystone which is operational today, and it is not filled to capacity. keystone has absolutely nothing to do with the current supply-demand imbalance in energy markets. what i can tell you, though, willie, is even if we drilled as

much as we could, the price of oil is still set globally. by the demand and supply conditions. much of the supply is controlled by tyrants like putin. again, that's why we have resolved to speed our transition toward cleaner, more sustainable and renewable sources of energy. >> separate topic before i let you go. digital assets, executive order on cryptocurrency announced by the president. what are we talking about here, and what does it do? >> cryptocurrencies, you've heard, everybody knows, they're undergoing explosive growth. i think over $3 trillion in market cap. the implications for the united states are profound. to the ability of people to engage in the financial sector, to their protection from the volatility of the cryptocurrency assets, to the efficacy of our sanctions. some countries tried to work around them using crypto. and to the primacy of our system in the economy. this is to articulate our

national interest and set a course so we have a leadership seat at the table. >> addressing benefits of this cryptocurrency. daleep singh, deputy director of the economic council, appreciate your time. mika? >> willie, thank you very much. you know, the ban on russian oil, all the different sanctions put in place, the question still remains, what is left to sanction or to do that could actually change putin's behavior? >> i think right now, for not only the white house but for politicians on the hill right now, we need to look for other energy sources. as we said before, wall street, there is a bottleneck on wall street because a lot of oil companies, understandably, slowed production down during covid. it'll take a while to ramp it back up. do we go to venezuela? >> listen, i think that we need to be clear that we are t produ

the world, in the united states. at one brief, shining moment, we were energy independent. it's dropped down during covid. still, we are in a good position if, in fact, the hill pulls back the curtain on shenanigans that could be going on right now because of the excuse of putin and his oil. there will be shenanigans going on, both on wall street and in board rooms, that, you know, they're going to want to be good to their shareholders, not necessarily to the woman who can't afford to commute to work from an x urban county in missouri up to st. louis county. >> right. >> that's not who they're going to be thinking about. we need to make sure they're putting pressure on american oil producers. and the biden administration, while they haven't shut down oil production, they certainly haven't been friendly. i think this is a moment where they probably need to extend a hand and say, hey, guys, this is a war that we want the good guys

to win. we don't want our moderate to low income people to pay too high a price. there's things that can be done. >> jeffrey, we are at war. and oil producers who, again, i certainly understand why they pulled back during covid. maybe they do need a little rush from republicans and democrats alike. to say, i know your shareholders may not love it, but it may be the patriotic thing to do, to be a little more aggressive in production. also, for the biden administration, maybe it's time, perhaps, to slow down a little bit on iran because we have some gulf states right now that see that as a hostile move toward them. they're not cooperating right now with increasing isle production because their main concern is iran. >> right. the houthis in yemen. >> and the houthis, yeah. >> and the lack of what they

consider to be a vigorous response by the americans to the houthis. this is realism. the saudis and the emiratis, think what you will about the morality of their position, but they're saying to the biden administration, and eventually they'll work this out, right, but they're saying to the biden administration, you know, you're talking about lifting sanctions off of iran, which is our existential enemy, existential threat in the gulf, at the same time you're trying to impose massive sanctions on russia. how about love for our position? the american position is, you know, especially the democratic party position, is you're a bunch of authoritarians. don't tell us what to do. we're trying to -- we're trying to -- from the american perspective, we're trying to help denuclearize the middle east and make sure iran stays non-nuclear. so they're talking way past each other. joe biden, as disagreeable as this sounds, might have to go

ask the saudis for more oil. >> we were actually allies with joseph stalin during world war ii. sometimes when you're at war, whether it is venezuela or whether it is the saudis, sometimes you have to look at the world -- >> you choose your bedfellows, which is why nikki haley over the course of the weekend saying that she was shocked that the biden administration had been talking to the chinese about russia, to bring about some kind of diplomacy. in this circumstance, you talk to whoever you can. better to drive a wedge between the chinese and the russians at the moment than have them moving closer together, as they had been before the start of this invasion. we were talking earlier about possible off-ramps for putin. you know him well. you've studied him for years. in the situation he is in at the moment, it looks like, with every atrocity that is committed in ukraine, an off-ramp gets closed to him. how does he get out of this, were he to decide that that's

what he wanted to do? >> so one of the difficulties of the situation is that the only person who can decide what an off-ramp is is putin himself. we gave him before the invasion began, we gave him multiple ways. we offered negotiations. we talked about all kinds of things that could be done to fix the situation. my guess is that if he starts losing, and that would come after a failed assault on kyiv, this may happen in the next few days, then he may be looking for some kind of, you know, if you give me x or y, i'll stop. we will have to be very careful about this because the russians are dishonest. they've already said several times, you know, we'll give you a humanitarian corridor to various cities, then they've shelled civilians who are trying to escape. so we would have to see an actual withdrawal of troops and moving them away from the borders before we could accept anything. it may be that they will start

to negotiate. but it will have to be -- it is not something we can create. it'll have to be something that they want. >> could -- at the end, could we see a commitment from the west that ukraine stays neutral, if that's what it takes? >> i don't really see how at this point in history ukraine can be neutral. ukraine is not -- >> have you heard them? >> ukraine has been invaded and occupied by another country. ukraine is going to maintain an army to prevent that from happening again. >> what does it look like a month from now? >> what does ukraine look like a month from now? >> exactly, if we don't bring this in. >> i mean, ukraine faces terrible destruction. i mean, the only solution for ukraine that ukraine can see right now is they need to win. helping them win and making sure that they win is the best thing we can do right now. >> so from 20,000 feet to what's going on on the ground, coming up, former ukrainian president petro poroshenko, who has taken up arms on the front lines

around kyiv, will be our guest. he along with other soldiers and civilians are trying to protect his nation's capital city. that's straight ahead on "morning joe."

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54 past the hour. breaking news, we're following a concerning new development out of ukraine. the country's nuclear agency says the chernobyl nuclear power plant, which is currently occupied by russian troops has lost power. the state-run company says the fighting is making repairs impossible, and is warning of possible radiation and nuclear discharge. ukraine's foreign minister is urging the international community to call on russia to cease fire to allow repairs. a quick thought, claire mccaskill. there are four plants in ukraine, and this has been an

ongoing concern as the russians are take over the nuclear power plants. >> let me echo ann's concern, if russia agrees to do this, which is the right thing to do, who's going to trust them. they're murdering women and children trying to evacuate the country purposely. the problem is, yes, they might agree to these repairs but i think putin is probably on the side of chaos in ukraine, and isn't that concerned like all the rest of us are. we're horrified at this possibility. >> and the power plants are a strategic objective, aren't they, they're a way of going nuclear. >> i don't know if the intention is to go nuclear but certainly the intention is to cut off power and create chaos and fear. >> claire mccaskill, thank you so much, the atlantic's jeffrey goldberg, and ann apple balm, i think we have an article born out of the conversation here. we look forward to it, and still ahead on "morning joe," the latest on the desperate

situation in mariupol as russian forces have been targeting civilians who have been without power and water in freezing temperatures for more than a week. more global companies are distancing themselves from russia. this time, some major iconic u.s. brands. we'll tell you who they are, and we'll have a look at the massive aid package lawmakers want to send to ukraine. we'll be right back. wmakers wan send to ukraine. we'll be right back. can you be free of hair breakage worries? we invited mahault to see for herself that dove breakage remedy gives damaged hair the strength it needs. even with repeated combing hair treated with dove shows 97% less breakage. strong hair with new dove breakage remedy. number one beauty brand not tested on animals.

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so top of the hour, a live look at the white house, 8:00 on the east coast, welcome back to "morning joe." it's wednesday, march 9th. we're following breaking news, the bbc's catty kay and mike barnicle is still with us. we kept anne and jeffrey for a few more minutes. and first, more on the breaking news we just told you about. ukraine's foreign minister is

warning of radiation leaks after the russian occupied chernobyl nuclear power plant lost power. he's urging the international community to call on russia to cease fire so repairs can be made. at the same time, a humanitarian crisis is growing in the city of mariupol at hundreds of thousands of civilians have been trapped inside the city. without heat, water and electricity for more than a week now. however, there are new efforts to rescue civilians in the city and others as russia and ukraine agree to cease fires that would open six humanitarian corridors. we'll be watching that. >> and we actually asked you all to stay a little bit longer because you're speaking of this humanitarian crisis. you do believe there should be no fly zones over ukraine. >> in certain areas. >> for either humanitarian relief or just so the united states and nato is not

constantly responding to the latest move of putin's. >> i would like to see us be more creative. we say no fly zone because that's what we did in iraq. i would like to think harder about what we can do. should there be limited no fly zones over humanitarian corridors. as i said in the beginning of the show, should we be doing exercises in the baltics now. what are we doing to discomfort and make the russians worry rather than us always worrying about what they're going to do. what's our long-term strategy here? i don't quite see that. >> jeffrey, i'm worried about the person who talks about nuclear obliteration every day. am i too squeamish? >> anne is right that there are probably many things we can do. the number one american goal in the conflict is to avoid a nuclear es la toir cycle that

brings russia and the united states into direct confrontation. the number two goal is to spread democracy and freedom and help the ukrainians as much as possible. let's be very aware that there's a line that we just can't cross. that's why countries have nuclear weapons. >> so anne, how do you respond to that? >> do you see putin as a continuation of soviet leaders that they'll use nuclear blackmail to get their way, and perhaps we shouldn't be quite as obsessed on every utterance putin and lavrov make? >> putin sees himself as a successor soviet leaders. he works along the same lines. much of what he's doing is blackmail. >> thank you very much for that insight. we're going to go to kyiv, former president of ukraine, petro poroshenko joins us now. we have been talking about the power problem at chernobyl.

what can you tell us? what is the latest on the ground from where you are? >> first of all, i want to stress once again about no fly zone. you have a discussion, but right now in this moment we have an air alert, and right now the russian planes is above me, and right now ukraine and anti-aircraft plan to protect kyiv, protect civilians and attacking russian planes. just imagine how to live in this condition and definitely we need no fly zone. everybody should understand that nato already is involved and the ukrainians fighting not just on our soil or our sovereign integrity. putin fighting not with ukraine. putin is fighting with the west.

in that situation, even if it's not possible, if it's dangerous, i don't accept, and even if we just ask him, please, give us the former -- the old soviet fighter jet, mig-29 because we have our very best pilots, and these pilots already demonstrate that we have more than 50 russian fighter jets down. more than 85 russian helicopters down. and this situation is we definitely make russia weaker, and we can close the airspace above the nuclear power station including chernobyl, including civilian object, including all the major cities. because nuclear contamination don't have any border and article 5 of the washington

treaty do not protect from nuclear. we demonstrate what's going on today in chernobyl. this is complete black out. the russian troops go from belarusian territory and take all the territory of the chernobyl nuclear power station and black out receiving of information to the international bodies including the nuclear security. just demonstrate their level of madness, which russia provides here in ukraine, and yesterday, day before yesterday, attack on the parisia station, 12 times more powerful than chernobyl, that's why nuclear war can launch even without nuclear russian missiles and with that situation, definitely we need -- the same situation i want to

stress once again, the leadership of the united states. i want to thank the strong leadership of the president biden administration, congress, and first of all american people where more than 60% support no fly zone, and more than 80% of americans support idea to give ukraine the fighter jet from europe. >> and as you know, mr. president, poland has those mig-29s and has offered to contribute those to the war effort. i want to ask you specifically about what you're seeing on the ground there in kyiv this morning. we've seen the dire situations in cities like mariupol where there's no humanitarian aid getting in, there's no food, water or medical supplies. it appears, anyway, that russia is advancing, however slowly, toward the capital city where you are. how close are they right now, and what is your fear of when they may arrive? >> first of all, during this

night, ukrainian troops and brave ukrainian soldiers do not give one single step for russian troops to go further to kyiv despite of the fact that we have russian troops right on the border of kyiv. i just returned back from the irpin where we provide in helping the civilians to escape from the russian controlled territory. and the people just telling me that they have no electricity, they melt snow to drink the water. they have nothing to eat. they don't have medicine. this is the real humanitarian catastrophe. and this is in the 21st century. the elderly people, the children, and i'm proud that only this morning only team of our battalion using the buses,

armored buses from the bank because it's dangerous to use any other. we withdraw more than 3 1/2 thousand just this morning, and our soldiers continue this work together with the volunteers, together with the mayor of irpin, together with territorial defense fighters. and i'm really proud that these people is saving their lives. but i want to deliver the information. we have a disaster in some ukrainian cities including kharkiv and sumy, many civilians are killed, including children, but today the day of 14 of invasion, this is already two weeks, kyiv is key. kyiv is a capital, and despite

the fact that can't imagine that 7% of ukrainian population, first of all, children and women, already left ukraine as a refugee. we here stay in ukraine, and we don't give up. we don't give any chance to putin to occupy us, and i think that ukrainians already surprise the world. ukraine ruin the plan of putin for capture us in 48 hours. we in ukraine demonstrate the absolutely unique unity, and we demonstrate that the world is different since the 24th of february, and we are very much admired the unit of the whole world, but please, every single day, new sanction if putin do not understand what's going on. not make a cease fire. not withdraw their troops, and yesterday we are very much admire the situation on the oil

embargo, the situation of expanding the list of the oligarch and many many other sanctions which the world presented to putin. >> mr. poroshenko, ukraine has surprised the world, and the world is inspired by ukraine. we have the atlantic's anne applebaum here with us, and she has a question for you. anne. >> mr. president, we hear that there are russian saboteurs inside kyiv, people who are looking to create a coup d'etat in the case of a russian invasion. can you talk a little bit about how the territorial army is dealing with them? >> we are 24/7, first of all, i'm really happy to see you again, and thank you for your firm position. this is extremely important for us. point number two, the soldiers, all around ukraine, 100,000

ukrainians i lifted in territorial defense battalion, and we are here in kyiv 24/7 regime for the protection of kyiv, and only in our battalion we already lost three soldiers, and that was the attack of this type of group, but subversive activity is high, and we definitely -- the unity we demonstrate, this is the very easy for us to deliver to the secret services and to present it that we are not give them any chance to destabilize the situation in kyiv. i'm really proud of that. i'm really proud of my people, and i'm really proud of people

from kharkiv, sumy, mariupol. >> mr. president with the exception of the no fly zone, what is the greatest military need right now today with the russians at the edge of the city? >> point number one, antiaircraft missiles. we have a real lack of this missiles, even still. point number two, we need significantly increase the antitank missile, including javelin, and they demonstrate the very high efficiency, and that's why hit it already more than 350 tanks, and more than 1000 personal carrier, but we stand in there, and we need -- every single week we need additional, we need ammunition. by the way, we need sanction, which should be devastating. putin should pay their price. russian people who supporting

the aggression, russian people who support putin, russian people who support killing of ukraine, torture of ukraine, killing ukrainian children. this is responsibility, and they should understand that putin should take out from ukraine, take their troops, and their solidarity. maybe solidarity with the whole world. this is the crucial thing, and we need it number one. >> all right. former president of ukraine, petro poroshenko, thank you very much for joining us. >> by the way, i have another idea. sorry. that would be great idea if the world leaders in this situation come here in kyiv, and demonstrate this type of solidarity. this is the demonstration that we do not give up and the whole world is with us. please think about that. we are in kyiv.

and we're waiting for you. thanks a lot. >> the message has been sent. thank you so much, mr. president. and we hope to see you again soon. we're going to get more on the situation from the ground from nbc foreign correspondent, richard engel. >> reporter: russian troops are trying to grind out a victory by beating ukrainian towns into submission. so far all russia is doing successfully killing ukrainian troops and innocents. at an intensive care unit in kyiv this morning, a doctor showed us the wards, the windows all covered to prevent sniper fire. in every room, a victim of russian fire. all civilians. a man shot in the leg, another whose house was bombed. he was trapped under the rubble for two days and just arrived here this morning. vladimir putin says that the russian army is not bombing civilians. no civilians are being hurt. >> it's a lie.

it's an obvious lie. >> reporter: down the hall, an entire family, they were escaping their neighborhood north of kyiv. a russian soldier told them it was safe to leave, but as they started moving in their car, other russian troops opened fire. shooting them all. katerina was shot in the back. tonya took 12 bullets in her legs. the ukrainian government is standing firm behind president zelenskyy. he addressed the british parliament by video and paraphrased winston churchill's fight them on the beaches. >> we will fight in the forests, in the fields, on the shores. >> the message of resistance to the end struck a deep chord in the united kingdom. across ukraine, zelenskyy's fighting spirit seems to be contagious, used the gi bill, and became an american citizen is now defending kyiv where he was born. >> we're on the right side, i

mean, they came to our home trying to destroy us. we don't have a choice. we stand divided we fall. so that's it. >> reporter: do you think you're going to win? by win i mean push the russians out, have a government. >> right now it looks like we are winning. we're pushing them back, and they are dying. >> reporter: russia's military offensive has often looked inept with vehicles running out of gas, soldiers surrendering and abandoning trucks full of weapons, but the embarrassing videos don't tell the full picture. a senior u.s. military official says russia still has 95% of its military force in ukraine in tact. more than enough to destroy the country's cities and create much more suffering. >> and joining us now in washington, we have chairman of the house foreign affairs committee, democratic congressman gregory meek's of new york, he recently returned

from a trip to poland, a visit he called heartbreaking. also with us, penalty gone correspondent for the "new york times," he lain cooper and former chairman of the republican national committee, michael steele joins us. thank you all for being with us. >> mr. chairman, talk about what you saw at the border, the heartbreaking scenes. >> devastating. we saw children and women coming across the border in the hundreds, hungry, cold, looking for a meal, looking for warmth. it was a scene that was just completely unbelievable. when we arrived there, you know, we already talked about there were 700,000 refugees that had crossed the line. we were there just for two days and by the time that we left, it was well over a million. and that's the number that was coming in, 150,000 a day, and being told that it's going to get worse before it gets better

because there's another million or more that's lined up right behind them who don't know anyone, don't have any place to go. it just broke your heart. >> as you mentioned, they're coming, it's a treacherous journey, and they're in bad shape when they arrive. >> that's absolutely bad shape. this humanitarian crisis going on which was important for all of us to see when we get ready to look at the budget we're going to pass where we've got to give a substantial amount of money, both for defensive weapons as well as humanitarian aid, and talking to one, did not know whether or not her husband, she would ever see him again. because any man that is between the ages of 18 and 60 couldn't cross that borderline, they have to fight. i'm communicating with my husband by phone, but i don't know whether we will ever see him again. >> mr. chairman, you're saying he's killing innocent men, women and children. this is one person's war, one

aggressor, the end game is he's going to lose. i can't tell you how long it's going to be but he's not going to gain a single thing from committing these war crimes. >> he's evil, there's no question about it. and while he's thinking he's surrounding ukraine, what's actually the world is surrounding him, and you can tell that by the 141 people that voted to condemn these actions of putin's war in ukraine. so he thinks he's surrounding ukraine but the world is surrounding him and in the end, he may win a battle or two, but he won't win this war. >> what's the pentagon's latest assessment about the war zone? >> russia, i think congressman meeks is completely right. russia is definitely perhaps poised to win a battle or two. and president vladimir putin is going to -- the pentagon says is definitely going to lose the war because he's put himself in such

an impossible position. i was traveling throughout eastern europe over the past six days with general mark milley. we were on the ukraine border, in poland, and we went all up and down the 1,000 mile nato eastern flank from the baltic sea to the black sea, where president biden has flowed in thousands of american troops. we have now 100,000 u.s. troops in europe up from 80,000 just a few months before. on the battlefield in ukraine, the russian military has performed dismally, to the point, i was in estonia, and these baltic countries, estonia, latvia, lithuania have all feared they're going to be the next on vladimir putin's list of, you know, who he might target next. i talked with the militaries

there. they said that for years they've had these this fear of this russian military as this force of power, and now they're not scared anymore. one estonian soldier, i said to her what do you think of their performance, are you still scared of them. and she said not anymore. that just blew me away. it's very -- they've watched this halting, botched invasion in which the russian troops have done -- you've seen russian troops coming over the border with mres that expired in 2002. you've seen units en masse surrendering, this risk averse military. they still haven't managed to achieve air superiority over ukraine. ukraine is still getting planes in the air. they're still taking down with antiaircraft missiles a lot of

russian planes, so they haven't managed to subdue the country yet. >> when you hear what she describes, the worry is what other things does putin try when he realizes, perhaps, that his army is failing him or not giving him the reaction that he wanted and are things like nuclear power plants hitting them, or saving face for hitting them. >> katty, we look at the situation, there's no way he can win the war he has set out to win. you can't occupy ukraine. that's very obvious. at the same time, putin can't, in his eyes, can't lose. does that mean he flattens all of ukraine, levels it to the ground? these are the questions we have to keep asking ourselves every day, and again, we talked about it even before the war began, what's the off ramp, how do we get this guy to back down. >> and how do we keep the channels of communication open

between the united states, nato, the europeans, and the russians. how do we make sure that at any moment, there's a possibility that putin is going to offer terms acceptable to the ukrainians or the west, and those terms are taken. one of the things i keep hearing, michael, is that we have to make sure the russian people themselves are getting as much information as possible. there's a lot of concern about the news blackout taking place in russia. one way you get putin there is to put pressure on him internally. what are the conversations you're hearing about ways we could get more information to russians? >> that's a very good question. since the blackouts began where they were particularly taking down independent networks, and news sites, there's an underground that's being created or trying to be created through various other networks to flow information as much as possible to those who are actively on the

ground. you see it playing out as you're still organizing rallies and protests on the streets of moscow, for example. so the network is being built around that. i think the broader question in addition to the network to get that information to the moscow and other russians is what other channels are within the military because, you know, helene you probably know this for sure. this is not necessarily a good feel for generals and military folks in russia as well. in our back channel conversations while we were also pressing on the russian people, what type of pressure is being brought to bear in creating relationships with some of the generals and other military officials who aren't down with what is happening with putin right now. and maybe create that off ramp, joe, down the line because you're going to need to find as

this thing begins to escalate in his mind you're going to need to find some way to neutralize it more internally. >> and the problem is, mike barnicle, that the situation not only gets worse for ukraine the longer this goes, the situation gets worse for putin the longer this goes. he continues backing himself into a corner. as chairman said, he is committing war crimes by the day. god help us all if he escalates even over the next two weeks because he puts himself further into a corner where suddenlily off ramps just don't seem possible. >> you have to wonder what the relationship is between vladimir putin and the upper echelon of his own military because they have got to know they're living with a disaster, and helene, michael just raised an important issue. maybe you can speak to it, the level of communication between the pentagon, between our military and the russian

military is it there, is it constant? is it daily, is it weekly? do you know? >> it's not there right now. that's a big part of the problem is that the pentagon, pentagon leaders say they have established a deconfliction channel at a fairly mid level where they can communicate with russian counter parts to make sure there's not some sort of mistake or something that ends up escalating things. but at the top level, defense secretary lloyd austin as, you know, when last i checked yesterday had not spoken, had not spoken with his russian counter part sergey shoigu. general mark milley has not spoken with general gerasamov. who knows maybe something has happened today that i'm not aware of. the communication level at this point is not there, and that's

not for wont of trying on the part of americans. they're definitely trying. >> is another tool in our tool box getting to the russian people? are there strategic ways to do that? >> well, i think that what's happening is the pressure of the sanctions we're starting to have will cause them to seek out why they can't use their credit cards. >> how do they get that answer? >> i think that the answer is the continuation of us trying to get relatives talking to relatives. see there's a lot of individuals who are in ukraine that still have relatives in russia. >> right. >> and they're having that kind of conversation, encouraging them to talk to their loved ones still living in russia so they truly understand what's taking place. there's one person i was told she showed her brother in russia

what was taking place in ukraine, and he did not believe it because he's told something completely different. we're urging a number of individuals who have been able to evacuate from ukraine to get in contact with their relatives that are still living in russia so that they can hear, maybe they will believe their own relatives what is actually taking place. and making a difference. >> chairman of the house foreign affairs committee, congressman gregory meeks thank you so much for coming on this morning. helene cooper as always thank you. still ahead on "morning joe," scores of people in irpin are making a harrowing journey, using a battered makeshift bridge to escape russian shelling. we'll get a report. the first lady of ukraine has written an open letter about the invasion, olena zelenskyy writes the most terrifying part of the invasion is the child

casualty. she writes about 8-year-old alice who died on the street while her grandmother tried to protect her, and 10-year-old polena in kyiv killed alongside her family, and 14-year-old arseni who was injured and died while waiting for medical help. she writes about the refugees, the eyes of tired women and children and the newborns of war rigged by communities that are trapped and terrorized. she writes about those who need medical care, quote, how easy is it to inject insulin in the basement or get asthma medication under heavy fire. when it comes to the battle, she calls on the international community to help enforce a no fly zone adding quote, we'll manage the war on the ground. she said vladimir putin thought it would be a quick and easy military orientation but writes he underestimated our people, our country, and their patriotism. ukrainians regardless of political views navigate

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for the mornings when everything's wrong. for the manicure that makes everything right, for right now. show up, however you can, for the foster kids who need it most— at helpfosterchildren.com more than 2 million people have fled ukraine in a desperate search for safety. sky news special correspondent alex crawford reports from hard hit irpin where people are trying to flee the capital of kyiv ahead of the russian advance. >> it's the only way out of irpin, and this would test even the fit and healthy, but those still fleeing are the most vulnerable, the elderly, the frail and very young. those who have left this dangerous journey to the last, and they're having to pick their way across. those unable to get over themselves have to be carried,

painfully slowly so they don't slip, despite the desperation to get to the other side. the man in red is offering comfort to the old man as he puts his trust in strangers taking enormous risks himself. this is an incredible scene. there are dozens of people like this man who are having to be held and taken over a really precarious rickety bridge, and do it slowly because you can't have too many people on that bridge at one time, and it will just snap, and they're trying to do that quickly before the firing starts again. some of these people have already walked several kilometers to get to this point, carrying on their backs the loved ones they could not leave behind, and this is no agreed safe corridor. these people know this route has been attacked, multiple times already. so they raced out as quickly as they could, crying babies helped by volunteers. come on, mom, he's calling.

many of them have been shot at or survived shelling. smile her partner says, he wants her to be brave in front of our cameras. the courage of these people in these the most difficult and risky of circumstances is quite astonishing. the pulling together of them all, an absolute inspiration to witness. >> we don't see anything, but we all night -- you hear a lot of it. >> and we know some streets kills people near my house, kills woman yesterday. >> reporter: the russian soldiers are very close, we're told. only 100 meters down the end of this road. the urgency to get people out is stepping up a beat. >> 20 tanks.

>> reporter: they're in there, the russians. >> yeah. >> take care. >> two civilian, one woman, one children, and. >> were all buried. >> yes, in the park, in the square where two weeks ago, children was -- >> reporter: were playing, ukrainian soldiers are pushing into irpin trying to hold back the russian troops. they have to. about a third of the town is now under control with the russians putting them right on the western doorstep of the capital. the ukrainians say they bombed the bridge, which used to be the main route into kyiv. and the russians only have to cross this to easily get within striking distance of the capital. those running away from the slow

but relentless response surrounded by explosions until they could last no longer. >> no water, no everything, and we can't live in our houses right now. >> reporter: and then a remarkable act of kindness from those who just escaped with their lives. it's for international women's day, she says. in the face of such fear and danger, having lost everything, some coming out were more worried about us. everything's okay. everything will be good, she tells us, trust me, we will survive. we will escape. everything will be good. don't be sad or negative, she tells me. hold on, protect yourself, and take care of yourself. the road out is littered with possessions they once thought essential, not just surviving is the priority. >> sometimes we thought this is the last second of our life.

it was very scared. >> reporter: i bet it was. they made sure yodel the cat made it out too, and insists the world help them now. what should we do about this? >> they should close the sky. maybe we can fight. >> reporter: they're fighting the battle of their lives. there's a sense they're only delaying the inevitable. they're preparing to lay mines to protect the capital road, and all the men escaping irpin in the west have their documents checked. and they're tested on their ukrainian, they're acutely aware that russian saboteurs might try to sneak into the capital, hiding among the terrified civilians. while the russians are still advancing, they take any window to get people out, any way they can. they have somehow survived the

most atrocious conditions in a town under attack and under siege. but it's by no means over, and from somewhere they find the reserves the to push through this. because everyone here is horrifying at thought of suffering the same fate as other areas pulverized by the foreign troops moving in. >> and still ahead, clint watts joins us at the big board to break down the latest russian troop movements in ukraine. "morning joe" is coming right back. "morning joe" is coming ri back

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let's go to the national security analyst for nbc news and msnbc, clint watts, he's actually brought the big board down from new york city. kind of tough getting that checked on the shuttle but you got it down here, good to see you here. >> it's collapsible. >> fantastic. all right.

>> where are we, clint? >> a quick update. week one we saw the failure of the hail mary strategy of the invasion. week two we saw the shift to conventional invasion, and that's what we're looking at today. i want to start off with what you're seeing is three axes of advance, from sumy, and new corridors developing to the east and northeast of the city. the convoy, we're seeing signs it's breaking out and moving to the west. i think that takes us to the big picture in town. when you go to kyiv and you look at what's going on here, essentially they would be facing off against multiple fronts. if this comes through, and here in irpin where we have seen richard engel, major humanitarian issues, lots of people evacuating, what i would expect is you're going to see out here to the west, the ukrainian army will essentially have to start defending on multiple fronts, so we'll dynamically change the situation in kyiv, and this will look a lot like a siege, which we've

seen in other parts of the country. we zoom back out. we've seen this in mariupol, which is essentially surrounded. this is the evacuation from sumy, which we were talking about yesterday. the bigger picture, things to think about, it appears they're advancing from kharkiv today, trying to go to, if they can do that and link up from here in the south, they would essentially be cutting off the eastern portion of the ukraine. this would be devastating. they could take their forces which they already control on the east and push them this direction. i think that goes to the bigger picture of what is vladimir putin's plans, what are his options. several different things going on. this initial advance to mariupol is essentially secure. they have now set up logisticals. we saw an armored train, a very world war ii looking kind of aspect appear yesterday. separately, they stalled heading to kherson, and having trouble

in mykolaiv. yes, they're going after kyiv, that initially was to topple the government. what is the big picture, if you listen to vladimir putin over time, he talks about new russia, the idea of unifying ethnic russians under one population. this is not accurate about what's going on on the ground, but his idea is can you come and bring russia back, unite all of these people to the black sea, get to an ethnic population on the border with moldova. if he can do that, he will have created kind of what he set out to do, and it's talked about throughout history through the last two decades, and i think that brings us back to the big, big picture, which is here. if you look at all of his attacks over the last ten years, remember, georgia, azerbaijan,

they have peace keepers out here. this is why nato is worried, he could make the land bridge that was once russia, it would stretch down like this, he would control all the way down, and he would essentially be bringing all the russian people back under the umbrella. something we used to think about in the soviet time. >> clint watts, thank you. and coming up, more and more companies, and prominent brands are distancing themselves from russia. we'll talk about why this retreat from moscow matters. "morning joe" is coming right back. w matters. "morning joe" is coming right back rapid firming. a triple-lift serum with pure collagen. 92% saw visibly firmer skin in just 4 weeks. neutrogena® for people with skin. with voltaren arthritis pain gel. neutrogena® my husband's got his moves back. an alternative to pills, voltaren is a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory gel for powerful arthritis pain relief. voltaren, the joy of movement. shopping on public wifi is sketchy.

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a growing number of u.s. companies are cutting ties with russia in response to the country's invasion of ukraine. pepsico, coca-cola, mcdonald's and starbucks announced yesterday they have suspended business in russia. yale professor jeffrey sonnenfeld is keeping a running list of the countries that have pulled out of russia. his latest piece for fortune is titled "the great business retreat matters in russia today

just as it mattered in 1986 south africa" and professor sonnenfeld joins us. this has happened relatively quickly over the last several weeks, major companies around the world, the biggest companies in the united states cutting ties with russia. what's the practical impact. >> it's enormous. bishop tutu how important it was to marry sanctions. we had 200 companies led by general motors back there in the late 1980s that pulled out of south africa, and that was a very powerful strangle hold. in this case, it's very important both for symbolic reasons, luxury brands and critical technologies, and things, but it also is major employers. it's a massive impact on the economy. and that's really what we want to do here, but we want to create some hardship on the

general economy as putin survives not just as a tyrannical bloody autocrat but also the totalitarian aura, he can paralyze the civil sector, like gandhi did and the revolution against romania and east germany. when that civil society breaks down, you can get rid of it. >> the question is does putin care about the suffering of his own people. >> not at this point, i would imagine, but, you know, he's going to have to eventually. there's a lot of caskets coming back from this war, back into moscow. but my question to you is our perception of russia as americans, you know, it's probably framed up in cold war memories and everything like that, but when you see an apple store closing in moscow, and a mcdonald's closing in moscow, my question to you is some day this war will be over. what happens then? does anybody come back? does it regrow?

>> that's not to be pandering but incredibly sophisticated question that explains why some very prominent brands were surprisingly late to leave. usually in social change movements and i have been doing this for like 45 years is that the businesses that are consumer oriented are the first to get engaged. in this case, most of them were late, and the reason is they're worried about reengagement later by alienating a general russian populous that has their information filtered. they don't know the truth. they didn't want to alienate them, and these iconic brands, levi strauss and mcdonald's and coke and pepsi were brands of liberation and that's the problem those companies had, they still have this one big happy family mind set that we're a bridge to freedom. that world is gone, and there's no gray. there's no middle ground. there's black and white. there's evil and villain, and innocent victims. >> you know, and michael steele, this of course takes us back to

the 1970s, to the 1980s we'd hear stories like beatles albums making it around the ussr, bootleg, levis and there was such a yearning to get connected to the west by especially younger russians. this obviously takes us back now, and i guess we were talking about how we need a radio for europe to be more aggressive in getting the message out. by mcdonald's, by levis, by all of these western brands shutting down, that sends a strong in itself, doesn't it. >> it does, and i think it's an important message when you look back, how corporate america has responded to big civil unrest moments here in the united states in the last three or four years, where they have sort of taken the lead, and i guess my question to jeffrey would be,

how does that -- how does that feel for a lot of these corporate players. you get the bottom line concerns that they have obviously. you know, russia is a big market to play in obviously like china or any place else. do you think moments like this sort of raises not just the brand awareness about that civic engagement and involvement that they see here in the u.s., but not the opportunity to sort of have that play out globally for them, and what are some of the risks they may have to consider if that's the case? >> michael, that is such a critical issue. they usually have not been engaged other than say south africa and certain targeted areas where the business community did engage, but yes, we have seen in the last few years in particular amazingly, the trust in the business community has soared with ask -- academia taking a step

backwards, business leaders have been ascendant in terms of trust surveys and risen to the occasion on voting rights and social and racial justice issues and gun safety, and immigration, but on this one, a lot of these folks would rather shoot themselves than get involved in geopolitics, but they did, and what's shocking is who did. the people who moved first are heavy industry, bp, and chevron. chevron's involved, but maybe exxon and shell. these are, you know, billions, 40, $50 billion they left on the table. del and ibm moving early. it's astounding, adidas, nike, but the professional service firms you never see the lawyers and accountants, deloitte, mckenzie, ey, that's really exceptional, and i think some of

it has to do with the gen z culture, there's so much feedback inside these firms of vocal workers that can leave. not just the customers, but you look at the chat groups, people are furious and ashamed if their country is on the wrong side of history. that's symbolically and substantively very important. >> senior assistant dean and professor of leadership studies at the yale school of management, jeffrey sonnenfeld, thank you so much, and more on that point as we close our show today. i think the effort to get to the russian people, and i understand the services, the fries and things like that not being able. >> somebody said no fry zone. >> but if there's any way to support getting information to them, that could be a way to undermine putin. >> this is doing it. and this is one way to do it. i think we do need to be more aggressive and sort of a radio free europe in 2022. but think about this, it's not

just the government doing it, but firms, and firms that have been shamed by employees, whether it's oil, huge oil companies that were late in moving or mcdonald's, starbucks, other companies, it's having an impact. >> yes, just like the protests around europe, and all of the action we have seen here in america. this is politicians responding to anger of their own people who want to do something. >> and that makes a difference, government and individuals along with companies. >> and that's how you create the network you were talking about, people see the mcdonald's closed, it automatically feeds, what the heck is going on, why did that happen, and they get the message from their family in ukraine, they begin to connect dots. >> michael, katty, and barnacle, thank you very much, for willie, joe and me, that closes our coverage for today, but we'll be back tomorrow morning. that does it for us for now, chris jansing picks up the coverage right now. hi there, i'm chris jansing live atbc