gallery. so staff and volunteers are working frantically to move these cultural treasures to safe spaces, before it is too late. the irony here is these particular ukrainian using is racing to save russian works of art, because many of the priceless pieces in their collection were created by russian artists. russians are now destroying their own culture. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> good evening everyone. i am ayman mohyeldin. today is day 17 of russia's brutal invasion of ukraine. and russian troops are closing in on ukraine's capital. there are only about 15 miles outside of kyiv, and city center. and the bombardment of ukrainian cities has expanded with civilian targets being regularly hit. ukraine's president, volodymyr zelenskyy, saying today that about 1300 ukrainian soldiers have been killed since the invasion began. as the white house also

approved an additional $200 million in defense assistance to ukraine, to cover weapons, training and other military services. french president, emmanuel macron, as well as german chancellor, olaf scholz, i spoke to vladimir today by phone. and amid a cease-fire, but putin gave no indication that he intended to stop the fighting. the humanitarian crisis is worsening day by day. more than two and a half million ukrainians have now fled their homeland. the u.s. embassy, for its part, is urging americans to get out of ukraine. but as the russian bombing campaign escalates, escape routes are increasingly dangerous. seven people, including one child, we are killed after russian forces fired on an evacuation convoy, it tempting to flee the village of peremoha. the sad fact is that despite the danger sheltering in place maybe the safest option for some ukrainians. let's begin our coverage, excuse me. let's go first to nbc's ali arouzi, who's on the ground in ukraine. ali, you interviewed some

evacuees in lviv today, who are trying to get out of ukraine, including a grandmother. what can you tell us about their experience that they shared with you? >> that's right, ayman. just before i tell you that, i just wanted to give you a warning that the air raid sirens here in lviv just went off about half an hour ago. so if they go off again, don't be alarmed. that might be an indication that danger has been averted. but it does show that something may have happened. these air raid sirens go off when there's been a pattern of bombing. i don't have any specific information, but it does follow a pattern. so i just want to let you know about that, in case you hear sirens again. but yeah, we were at lviv train station this morning, and it was a tragic scene there, ayman. i mean, there was just waves and waves of displaced people arriving at the train station, getting off trains, and then, going into different cues to get on to buses, cars, to get to different parts of ukraine, or just to get out of the

country. and we managed to speak to some people there. there was a grandmother there with her two-month-old grandchild, and some other grandchildren. she also linked up with some other families to get them out of there. the child's parents have stayed back in the east of the country, in sumy, because they want to be part of the war effort. both her mother and her father, the father was fighting. mother was helping with medical supplies, food, all those things, anything they could do. and it's a really tragic situation. the grandmother was very frail. she's making her way to germany. she knew some people there that we're gonna give her refuge, look after her. and sadly, she was one of the lucky ones. i mean, some of the people that are just flooded into that train station had to spend the night there. they did not know where their next move was. they hardly had any money in their pockets. and they were just holding on to what they can grab from

their homes. and it's a really heart-wrenching situation. it was so similar to so many of those things that you and i have seen, ayman, in afghanistan, in syria, in iraq. the tragedy is exactly the same. they all have that thousand yard stare on their faces, displaced, worried, not worth knowing if they're gonna go back to their homes, if they go back there, is there a home still standing? so at the train station today, you so the ben alitalia of war. there was also a medical tent set up there by american group. they only set up two days ago. they were seeing people in that train station coming in from the war torn parts of the country, with stab wounds, gunshot wounds, hypothermia, you name it. they had coming in there. they're trying to set up a field hospital about half an hour from that train station, to treat trauma patients. so it's chaotic. it's very sad here.

but people are showing a lot of resilience, a lot of fortitude, and they're all trying to help each other. there is a real sense of community amongst the ukrainian people here. >> all right, nbc's ali arouzi, live in lviv for us. ali, thank you so much for that. a reminder to the human toll of this war. that's got over from there and go to poland, where nbc's josh lederman is monitoring the response from nato and european leaders. josh, i'm not sure if you can still hear me or not. but i just wanted to start with the latest developments on the diplomatic front, if we can. putin spoke today with leaders of france and germany. tell us more about how that call played out? and whether it advances any possible and to this conflict? >> that call lasting about an hour and a half, ayman, but there are no signs that brought the situation any closer to a resolution. and the long term, or frankly in the short term. it was prompted by president zelenskyy, pleading with french

president macron, to do whatever he could to get president putin to allow for an immediate cease fire, as well as to address those concerns about that ukrainian mayor who has disappeared, potentially, has been kidnapped. but the french were very pessimistic after this call. the french presidential source saying it was a difficult call, and that putin gave no indication he is willing to end this war at this point in time. but saying that both macron and german chancellor scholes, in the words of a french presidential source, put putin up against the wall about the increasing cost that russia is going to face, if it continues with this war. but it is the latest indication of how so many world leaders, despite the fact that there have been no indications of diplomatic progress so far, continue to try, continue to keep that line of communication open with president putin, including the israelis, with president zelenskyy of ukraine, think it's possible that the

israelis could play a productive role here. and also the turks who brought together the russian and ukrainian foreign ministers in the last day or so, for a meeting in person in turkey. that also yielded no obvious signs of progress. but it comes as the u.s. is increasing its own military support to ukraine, short of what president zelenskyy has been asking, which is of course, and no fly zone. the ability for poland to hand over old make jets to the ukrainians. short of that, the u.s. is saying today that it will give another $200 million worth of security assistance to the ukrainians, including anti aircraft capabilities, anti armor weapons. that, bringing the total amount that the u.s. has given to ukraine and security assistance, to 1.2 billion, ayman. >> all right, nbc's josh lederman live for us in paul. and josh, thank you so much. let's bring in our saturday night panel to discuss all these issues with us. aaron blanco is a global health

correspondent for politico. david walk off as a communists for the daily beast in usa today. and host of the deep state radio podcast. and we also have the author of the secrets guy, she is also an msnbc international affairs analyst. it's great to have all three of you with us. i'll start with you and this humanitarian crisis, aaron, that is resulting in two and a half million ukrainians fleeing their country. it's really hard to contemplate just how quickly this has unfolded. what is your sense of how bad things could get, and what needs to be done to soften the blow, if you will, of the humanitarian crisis that is unfolding? >> that's right. obviously, we've seen just incredible numbers of people crossing out of ukraine, into neighboring countries. but in the conversations i've had over the last couple of days, with u.s. officials, humanitarian officials on the ground, there is increasing concern for ukrainians still stuck inside ukraine. increasingly so, civilians are getting trapped in the borders

through which they were supposed to be able to evacuate. you know, american officials are now saying they believe that, you know, civilians are now being targeted, perhaps, through these gory doors. and then, humanitarian organizations on the ground are now saying that their own staff are being targeted. and so, it's difficult for these staff members to go and get the aid they need to get, to them transport that aid to the civilians that are in besieged cities who can't get out. so u.s. officials now calculate that in the coming days, as russia advances, and approaches on these major metropolitan areas, that the civilians are now probably going to be stuck. and less can be done between ukrainian officials and the russians on this humanitarian corridor. >> a téa, let's talk about the politics for a moment. we heard about putin's call with the french and german leaders. putin appears determined to continue his invasion, regardless of the costs, not

just to him personally, or you know, his clothes all embarks, but even to the russian people who are suffering as a result of this. the question that i keep coming back to, even if he does manage to take kyiv, even if he does manage to topple zelenskyy's government, is obviously not going to be welcomed in that country. and it doesn't seem the to be an endgame to with the russians are doing. they're not going to be able to maintain and sustain a government, a pro russian government, for very long insight ukraine. so what's the endgame here for him? >> i think putin has showed that he is a mad man. but i think he's also a smart man. he's thought about what this means for this legacy, but he's also miscalculated drastically i don't think that he realizes how strong the will of the ukrainian people would be. i think as this old russian mentality where the ukrainians are the slaves to russia. unfortunately, we have known

from the history of russia, that's how they've treated the ukrainians, millions of them have died under the hands of the soviet empire, under the russians, under the muscovites. he's miscalculating, but he has determined as well. putin does not like to look stupid in front of the international community. he wants to show his strength. he wants to show that he can do this, and he will, he will try to destroy as much as he can destroy in the process. if he can't win, he will run everything to the ground on his way out. as we saw how he has done in helping with the destruction of syria. as we saw in grozny, and unfortunately, as we're seeing right now throughout the season ukraine. >> so david, when you look at the totality of the western response, president biden, european leaders, they certainly seem to be united. there is no doubt about that. but it was probably a unification in this lightning round of a response, which is

the sanctions and the searching of eight, if you will, both military and economic aid to ukraine. what do you make of the u.s. nato response so far, and where it goes from here, as russia continues to escalate, with very few tools left in the sanctions toolbox for the west? >> well, i think you're absolutely right. the response so far has been strong. i think the unity that's sewn so far has been excellent, and i think it's one of putin's big miscalculation, that's just being set. having said up, i do think there are other tools. i do think there are other levels of sanctions, whether it's kicking the russians out of major international institutions, or punishing nations that are helping the russians in this, policing the sanctions in a much more aggressive way, adding new

people to the sanctions list. but as you can see, nato is not stopping there. the u.s. is providing more military aid. troops are being moved forward. military equipment is being shipped into ukraine, and that can increase, and that should increase, because right now, the russians are vulnerable. they have a superior military force, but they don't have the advantage of the political will, and the momentum there lies with the people of ukraine. and so, i think there is a real opportunity, if we supply them to push the russians back, to continue to inflict great damage on the russian army, and ultimately, to drive this to negotiations, where putin tries to find a way to say face, rather than being wholesale defeated by ukraine. >> david, what should their response be, if russia, and i'm sure you've seen this threat that they're going to consider these armed shipments and these

convoys into ukraine, as possible legitimate targets for them. and i understand obviously, if they targeted them inside of poland, or elsewhere, i don't know if they are initiating originating from poland, but anywhere in the nato areas, i understand it will probably trigger article five. but what happens if they targeted a western convoy, or a western shipment inside ukraine? which of the u.s. and nato response be to that? >> first of all, russia has to get to set the rules of this conflict. and frankly, they don't need legitimate artists. they've been hitting illegitimate targets. they've been committing war crimes since the very outset. i think if they strike, then we should respond by providing more such weapons, by trying to do so in the secure assist way possible, by not being dented by this. and if their strikes hit, or injured, anybody who's from nato or land in nato, then the

message that needs to be sent to the russians that that is escalatory, we will not tolerate that. and we need to push back, because frankly, you know, vladimir putin thinks he can get away with anything here, and i think our message to him has to be, no you can't. aaron, we've been focusing on the people getting out of the country and trying to get them help. as david was talking about there, we know that there are war crimes being committed, we've seen the maternity ward inside of ukraine, i believe it was in mariupol, that was attacked. what do we know about getting supplies and then getting humanitarian supplies into these hard-hit areas? and whether or not places are starting to run out of food and basic necessities? >> a lot of the organizations that are on the ground prepositioned supplies. but it's been days if not weeks into the fighting, and many organizations are running out

of things and they are increasingly desperate in the sense that they are not sure if they are going to be able to get those supplies in or wet roads there will be able to get them in through. this is a huge concern being discussed at the world health organization right now, particularly discussing oxygen supplies. hospitals in the eastern part of the country are running out of oxygen. so the question right now is, can we get a deal on the table? can there be a deal where we can get some of the supplies into the country in the coming days because, if not, many of the things that are needed, not just for surgery or other kinds of -- but for instance, insulin, many organizations don't have that to give to ukrainians who normally get insulin inside the country, and aren't necessarily trauma victims or any trauma help. but also food, water, all these things are running out.

so the question is now, how can these multilateral institutions get these stockpiles into ukraine and can there be a deal that will be struck in the coming days. that's the biggest concern. >> no doubt about that. aaron, david, and téa, please stick around. we will take a quick break, but next we will talk about how russians invasion is a disrupting food supplies. we will continue that discussion, our panel will debate the importance of the russian oil ban and what we can expect to see both economically and politically. stay with us. ay with us ch. save over $1,000 when you switch to our ultimate business plan for the lowest price ever. plus choose from the latest 5g smartphones. get more 5g bars in more places- switch to t-mobile for business today. to help prevent bleeding gums, try saying hello gumwash with parodontax active gum health. it kills 99% of plaque bacteria

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that is the number of ukrainians that have been driven out of their homes into neighboring countries. people who have left their homeland, you know, just topping in two weeks at the historic flow of syrian refugees into europe over the course of 2015 in 2016. it gives you a sense of the scale of this magnitude. it is the fastest growing refugee crisis in europe since world war ii, and it's just not a matter for our allies, this is a crisis in so many ways, a global disaster that is going to come here to the united states, and it has to be prepared to be dealt with. consider this new data from the un that suggests interview national food prices will

likely increase by 20% as a result of this conflict. ukraine and russia are called the bread baskets of your rep for a reason. 50 countries, including many developing nations, rely on the region for as much as a third of the wheat supplies. so on top of imperiling the lives of innocent ukrainians, this work could also call a surgeon malnutrition and starvation around the world. joining me now is nash in ash, she's the ceo of welcome guide u.s.. thank you so much for joining us. i would like to start with this new data that puts the totality of this conflict in perspective, and that suggests that international food prices could increase from 20% as a result of the russian invasion of ukraine. how concerning are these findings? how could such a surge impact descent different populations around the globe? >> thanks for so much for having me, and thanks so much for your question. and raising this critical

concern. with the increase in oil prices and the disruptions to food supply, we can absolutely anticipate that this conflict will result in -- and stresses on global food supplies and we have seen most recently in the context of the uprising of the arab spring the ways in which food insecurity and sharp increases and food prices and food supply can lead to political instability. we -- wear that to happen, it would lead to contribute to, what's been a growing global displacement crisis, now topping 80 million worldwide. with no end in sight. and driven by conflicts like the ones we are seeing unfold now in ukraine, but also by a deepening global climate crisis. >> the domino effect in a disaster like this is, it's

hard to predict, as you just kind of laid out. and i don't think many people would instantly conduct a russian invasion with a surge in global malnutrition. and i'm curious, what are some other less obvious ways this conflict and the refugee crisis will impact the global community. you talked about all prices and food prices, i'm familiar with obviously countries in the middle east that to rely heavily on russian and ukrainian wheat. but where else do you see disruptions that could impact the quality of life and create humanitarian challenges elsewhere? >> i think, overall, we can anticipate that the currently unfolding ukrainian crisis, which, as you have talked about, is happening at unprecedented speed and scale, is going to join a population, as i mentioned, of over 80 million for which the global community has already struggled to find stables solutions. what we have now are over 80

million people living their lives in limbo. often unable to work, often unable to send their kids to school, and have regular access to social services. the global community has really struggled with durable solutions for those who are displaced by climate crises and buy -- during conflicts. and that has resulted in a tremendous waste of human potential, but can also lead to political instability of its own. but what we know is fewer than 3% of refugees over the last decade on average have been able to to return home. conflicts of the types we are seeing in ukraine, climate crises, are unforgiving in that way. so what we really need our durable solutions. shared responsibility across a broader range of nations to gift displaced populations, including the ukrainian refugees that we see fleeing now, opportunities to rebuild

their lives and their communities and have regular access to work and to school, and all the things they need to survive and rebuild, and thrive. and what we know, it's -- not only for populations who are displaced but also the communities that receive them. and it's what we've been experiencing in the united states where, as a result of this scale of the afghan evacuation, the u.s. knighted sits has received over 100,000 afghanis in less than six months. and we've seen how those populations have been welcomed and will enrich the communities in which they are arriving. >> i want to ask you broadly, if i can, as somebody who follows this closely, it's definitely been heartwarming to watch so many european countries opened their borders to ukrainian refugees. but admittedly, they did not show the same eager compassion

to displaced people from's people from syria, afghanistan, and northern africa. is there any other way to view this other than outright racism? are there lessons learned from 2015 in 2016 that are being applied now. or is this simply because this is happening in europe so europe cares more about it? >> even, that racism is real and it is unacceptable. and i appreciated your consistent reporting on it. and i say again it's unacceptable. people seeking's safety and refuge should get it, regardless of the, race, ethnicity or religion. but i will say is that what we see expressed across populations, in communities, realize but we see at a level of national governments. whether you are talking about the syrian crisis in 2015, afghan rivals now in the united states, we have seen

communities, citizens, stand up for welcome, show a generosity and humanity. often different from what's expressed a national governments. we are seeing that now with the many european citizens showing up in train stations and bus stations in their own vehicles ready to offer refuge to people who need it. we saw it in 2015 when communities across europe did the same, even when their governments were reluctant. signed the united states even over the course of the previous administration where there was a reduction in national policy in respect to welcoming refugees in communities and state and local governments continue to open their arms. and we've seen this most recently displayed in the united states with afghan arrivals. even though governments can be constrained, communities have put their hands out over and

over again to offer safety and refuge to newcomers and give them a warm embrace in their new communities. >> thank you so much for joining us. i greatly appreciate your insights on these minute therrien situation that's unfolding. republican celebrated when president biden declared a ban on whale. and then they attacked him for, yes, rising gas prices on this country. we will have more on the gop double talk with my panel after this. afte this it's time to say goodbye to appliance heartbreaks. and hello to new quality finds you'll love on wayfair. you can always get the brands you trust. the support you need. and dependability you can count on. plus, get financing up to 60 months on qualifying purchases. fast and free delivery. and installation and haul-away. so with wayfair, you'll always find your perfect match. ♪ wayfair you got just what i need ♪ so, you found the no7 then.

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of course, as anyone knows, it is not that simple. in the new york times explains it like this. the surging global economic activity as the pandemic ebbs is the main factor, driving up gasoline prices, not biden's energy policies. in fact, domestic production of crude oil actually increased in biden's first here on the job. our panel is back with us. david, i'll start with you. would you make of the gop doublespeak here? blaming him for gas prices. my earlier guests from politico was talking about how this administration has given out actually more permits for drilling oil on public lands. more than trump did in his first year in office. >> well, on the one hand, it's mind-blowing and cynical. they voted for it. now they're trying to punish the president for it. on the other end, it's disloyal to the country. because the reality is, to the extent to which the embargo had

anything to do with price rises, putin is responsible for it, not biden. and they are sort of taking a putin's talking points, and trying to use the consequences of putin's war against the president, which is a pattern, of course, with republican leaders like the president, former president. so that is, you know, part of the problem. the other part, as you say, is that it's not based on the facts. next year would be the biggest year of exports of oil, gas production in the u.s., ever in our history, with the world's leading producer of oil and gas, as you say, the administration has noted that there are 9000 permits outstanding for drilling on federal land, that the oil and gas companies are not using. and if you just take the top for oil and gas companies, last year they had profits of 70 billion dollars. so they were taking advantage

of the market, taking advantage of that demand that was coming in the wake of covid, as covid wound down. and putting it straight into their pockets. so blame putin, blame the gas companies, but don't blame biden. he's doing everything he can, and he's doing it right. >> atia, were you surprised -- i mean, should we be surprised at the speed with which the gop switched their messaging from pro ban on russian oil, to suddenly being anti biden? >> we shouldn't be surprised. they're basically just wanting their constituents to hear what they want to hear. this isn't anything but a ploy for the midterm elections. but what's really the democrats, if they're gonna be smart about it, when they need to do is not to go on the defensive. they need to go on the offensive. and including the biden administration. this is a time to make history. every president, since jimmy carter, as promised the

american people that they would use the american reliance to fossil fuels. this is a time to take a giant leap, and said of those one step forward, several steps backwards. we can make a change in the system right now. the democrats can do it. the biden administration can do it. he can lead in a fantastic legacy behind, if you focus is on clear energy, clean energy and solar energy. but no, we shouldn't be surprised that the gop did this. in fact, they're playing to their braise. we opened up social media. we opened up facebook. we see old classmates posting pictures of gas price signs right now, and saying, thanks, joe. they're playing to their base. they know what they're doing. this is all a political ploy and we're used to it by now. >> yeah, you bring up a really good point, atia. and aaron, i'm interested to get your thoughts on the midterms. we are in a window, which we all know about, it's a window where you get close to a midterm election, republicans don't do anything except criticize joe biden. have we entered that window officially? >> i think that's definitely

fair to say. but look, i think what's being lost here is, you know, gop messaging is that the sanctions package that biden is working with, is the toughest sanctions package that we have seen on washer ever, right? so for the democrats, you know, this is a huge win. you know, this actions we've seen on oil and gas are part of this massive package that we've seen biden rollout in recent weeks, taking it step-by-step, as russia continues to encroach on ukraine, biden has levied even more sanctions time and time again. and i don't think this is the end of the road in terms of the sanctions package. i think we will begin to see much harsher sanctions come out, as russia gets closer to kyiv, for example. as the fighting continues to escalate, in these major metropolitan areas, so i think, you know, the gop messaging is one thing, but if you just take a 70 foot view of what we are looking at here, the sanction package, it's huge, and a major win for the democrats and for biden himself.

>> atia, let's go back to what we are talking about this. the relationship that america has fostered with or thorough therrien, dictatorial, brutal governments, successive governments, because of energy. what is your reactions of the biden administration's willingness to now negotiate venezuela, saudi arabia, potentially, iran, for oil imports, given their abysmal human rights records in each of these countries? are we simply swapping one brutal government, and that of russia, to another one in any of these other regions, just because it benefits us, energy wise? >> absolutely, ayman. this is number one adversarial relationship with one country and another. this is what i meant when i say biden can make history. instead of repeating the same mistakes that americans continuously made in the past, we could focus on something you, and that's clean energy, solar power. honestly, it is shocking, not talking at the same time, to see the u.s. turning to saudi

arabia, and mohammed bin salman. this is a man who ordered the death of a washington post journalist, dismembered his body and disintegrated in acid! we're gonna turn to him now for gas, because we don't want to get it from putin? when does that say about america? what does that say about our reputation? if we can make history, in turning our focus on solar power. and we're doing my that is clean energy. i mean, getting more of these energy efficient cars within the government facilities. every single one of us has a postal post office card in our neighborhoods. why can't we try to make that more fuel efficient? police stations, police stations throughout our cities and towns. it's gonna be a really difficult step forward, but it would be one that can make america a leader again. and it could also cut these ties with these people, these countries, that we really don't want to connect with in that

way anymore. >> david, you know, we've been talking a lot this week about how this russian invasion has changed for good. european security, germany is talking about reconstituting its army. sweden, finland, possibly joining nato. are we going to see, just to say on the topic of energy for a moment, are we going to see this be, as atia was saying perhaps a catalyst for america, to break its energy dependence on foreign oil, that we don't have to be so reliant on it? >> well, i certainly hope so. i think atia, every single point she's made has been correct. with regard to the united states. and if i understood your question of where it was leading initially, i think we're also gonna see that from europe. the european union has said that they need to move away from dependency on russian oil. germany is already considering other alternatives, in terms of energy generation. some of the countries of northern europe, and also spain

in southern europe, are extremely good at tapping into energy like wind and solar energy. and so, i think there's gonna be a big push there. and i think you're absolutely right. it's one of the things that has changed. you know, february 24 it was the end of the post cold war era. geopolitics has changed. but i think joe economics is changing. i think energy economics is changing. i think we are going to see our alliances changing. and hopefully, what's we're gonna see is a different response after this conflict, to putin, in the sense that, as in past conflicts, he's gotten away with it, essentially. and i hope that in this one, that is over. >> all right, geo economics, that is a term i've not heard since my grad school days in washington dc. david rothkopf, thanks for bringing that back to life here on this saturday night.

erin banco, david rothkopf, atia abawi, wait pleasure. thank you so much for joining us. thank you for insights guys. >> coming up, my next guest says the russian invasion has created an opening for a small group of extremists to recruit white supremacists foreign fighters. we'll talk about that, next. t, next. with relapsing forms of ms... there's a lot to deal with. not just unpredictable relapses. all these other things too. it can all add up. kesimpta is a once-monthly at-home injection... that may help you put these rms challenges in their place. kesimpta was proven superior at reducing the rate of relapses, active lesions, and slowing disability progression vs aubagio. don't take kesimpta if you have hepatitis b, and tell your doctor if you have had it, as it could come back. kesimpta can cause serious side effects, including infections. while no cases of pml were reported in rms clinical trials, it could happen. tell your doctor if you had or plan to have vaccines, or if you are or plan to become pregnant. kesimpta may cause a decrease in some types of antibodies.

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ukraine, he justified the so-called miss special mitchell military operation to did nazify ukraine, whatever that means, we have to call it what it is, russian propaganda. ukraine is not run by nazis, let's be clear about that. in fact, president zelenskyy's jewish, and three of his ancestors were killed in the holocaust. but we also can't ignore the fact that ukraine, like many other european countries, and even the united states, has a genuine nazi problem. this is the is up battalion, it's a volunteer militia that was founded by an avowed white

supremacist that claimed that ukraine special purpose was to rig the country of jews and their inferior races. and it plays on the frontlines of ukrainian resistance is sounding alarm bells. the conflict in ukraine has created an opportunity for extremists to recruit white supremacists and foreign fighters in search of training. cynthia miller joins me now, she's a professor at the american university where she directs the polarization and extremism research and innovation lab, and the author of hasten the homeland, the new global far-right. professor miller interest, thank you for joining us. let's start with these far-right factions and ukraine if we can. in the last round of elections in 2019, those parties actually garnered only 2% of the national vote and failed to win even a single seat in ukraine's legislator. how is putin using the presence of this small minority to his

advantage? >> i think the way you just introduced it is exactly how we have to talk about this. it's a really prickly situation. it's sort of like trying to hold a porcupine. on one hand, you have this propaganda coming that saying that this is a situation in need of denazification which is patently untrue and propaganda. on the other hand, there are very real problems with far-right supremacist groups. just like they happen in the u.s., germany, and other places. and there is this history there that needs to be addressed. we know that there have been neo-nazis going there over the last few weeks, that there has been mobilization and recruitment, and attempts to fund-raise that are, of course, a small minority of the foreign fighters that are headed there, but it creates a risk. >> talk to us about that risk. what is the risk of ignoring, or perhaps, not understanding

ukraine's a neo-nazi or nazi problem. >> they are really -- i think there are dual risks here. one side of the risk is that it mobilizes existing extremists, and we have seen that intelligence has shown us that neo-nazis and white supremacists are using this opportunity to try to mobilize, to recruit, to fund-raise, to channel people, to go to the foreign lines -- front lines, and get training. and then perhaps return home to enact harm in their own countries eventually. but we also have the risk of people going there with no intentions, no existing ideological extremist beliefs, and encountered people with more radical beliefs in the field, on the frontlines, and then become radicalized once they are there. when you get into that toxic miss mix at the frontline situation, you run the risk of people leave radicalized even

though they don't come that way. >> i want to read a section from your piece about this. you write, there are also risks of fighters becoming radicalized once overseas and returning to their home countries with additional military training and tactical combat skills. as you were just explaining to us. elaborate on that for us a moment. what should our governments do in a situation like this because there have been, and i would consider it to be somewhat double -- a double standard. i remember watching in the middle east, governments cracking down on people going to join the fight, if you, will extremist groups, terrorist groups in the middle east. but we've seen statements coming out of european officials that have encouraged their nationals to ukraine to fight the russians. what do you make of what is being played right now about these policies and positions, and the influence they might have? >> that is a double standard. we are seeing this --

not in every case, i'm in the uk has introduced extra checks at the airports, asking additional questioning of people headed to the ukraine to find out what are the reasons for going there. so trying to introduce some extra checks. that seems like a minimum standard that should be done at all ports of exit on the way to the ukraine. but this idea that you would encourage people to go and fortified without acknowledging the risk and paying attention to it is troublesome and it definitely represents a double standard in -- isis and other situations like that. you know, i think the best thing that we can do is to invest in some of the community based intervention and red flag warning signs so that when families see people coming back from these conflicts, that there are recess, people will come back with ptsd, mental health counseling, in ways that they could be more vulnerable just as we've seen veterans

becoming more vulnerable from conflict overseas. we need to have ways to recognize those risks within communities and intervene and get people help once they are here. but also recognize perhaps some of those red flags and warning signs in a way that we haven't really been able to equipped parents, and teachers, and caregivers, and mental health counselors, employees, with those types of skills. >> cynthia miller atrial's, thank you so much, and extremely fascinating, i appreciate your insights tonight. >> thank you. >> we will be right back. ll be right back dove 0% is different we left the aluminum out. and put 48 hour freshness. and one quarter moisturizers in. dove 0% aluminum deodorant. lasting protection. that's kind on skin. dove 0% aluminum deodorant. ♪ ♪ ♪

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i'm richard louis. it's 10 pm here in new york city. that makes it 5 am in kyiv. and that is where we start. russian forces are moving in on key cities there. tonight, there are about 15 miles on the outskirts of kyiv, the capital. the southern port city of mariupol has largely been pounded into dust. its citizens are under naval blockade right