i would be able to see russian tanks rolling into a european country. soldiers kissing their children goodbye, as they stated the faint their cities in their country. and families fleeing for their lives. the awful bombing of the maternity hospital. of course, if it's possible to find a way through this, then we should all be hoping for that. but i'm optimistic. i'm afraid not at the moment. >> it's heartbreaking. with your -- , is vladimir putin a war criminal? >> yes. what i've seen already amounts to war crimes. particularly the ultimate attacks on civilians. and i think it's very important that he is held to account, and all those who are acting with him. know that they too can be held to account. this is something that we need to make clear now so that those who are involved at the moment no with the consequences are. there's a gap that we have to

plug, and that is in relation to the aggression of the invasion. that is not something that at the moment can be dealt with by international tribunals. which is why i and others have suggested that we set up a tribunal to deal with this. so that the act of aggression itself, the aggressive invasion that's going on, is itself, something which putin and everyone who is acting with him can be held account for. >> i wanted to talk to you about nord, a newspaper proprietor, our former k b j b agent. was there any security concern for him over the years? and should we fall into the truck of demonizing people from russia? >> of course we should not demonize people from russia. i completely agree with that. the media today are saying that there are further reservations from the uk intelligence

services, which -- . and we know that concerns were raised, apparently, with the prime minister. in light of the revelations today, or a third of the revelations today, i think there are serious questions to answer from the prime minister. where did he know? and didi override security advice? i've already suggested that there needs to be a process. to look into this appointment. the intelligence and security committee could, that's automatically a matter for them. but i think the laws appointment commission as well, i've written to them to say, in the exceptional circumstances of this case where there is issues to the point where it brought the prime minister to the house of lords. will they release the information they're given? and will they review the appointment? because the more that the media probe into this, the more serious the river vacations it seems of the intelligence

services, and the more the prime minister is called into question. >> the prime minister called into question, what exactly saying he did wrong here? >> that's part of the process because i have not seen the materials. there's confidential by nature. i don't think we can sit back when revelations that we've seen in our papers today, about the security concerns in the relation to them. and say, oh wow the appointments been made. this is a part of national security. let's look into the problem -- with the prime minister now? and what did he do in response to that? i think that's the least that we are entitled to in relation to disappointment. >> i want to talk about what's happening here in the uk. cause people are going to be getting, let's be, frank much more real for people. i know with your car recently, with energy bills increasing, there's gonna be a lot of people faced with the choice of heating their homes are eating. but what's the big idea from

the leader of the opposition to try and narrate the biggest cost of living >> crisis that we've seen in decades? >> the thing is this is not only caused by the invasion of ukraine. this predates, we were in a cost of living crisis before russia invaded ukraine. so this is something that's been on the cards for very long time. what we've said is do something now to deal with the energy bills that people are facing. because everybody knows, most people are going to face an energy rise of about 700 pounds in a few weeks time. and now, that it's happened, there will be 100 pounds in the autumn. so we are saying take action! what we would do, is have a windfall tax on the oil and gas profits in the -- who have made more profit than they expected because of the global crisis. and more money than they know what's to deal with. views that, which is the enemy

-- reduce the household bills by -- . so a very direct act that we would do. the government says, no no no, we don't want to ask more of the oil and gas companies. we will ask working families to do this each time. we will give them a loan of 200 pounds which they will then pay back over the next few years. so [inaudible] oiled gas companies need to play their part. the government says, we're gonna hammer working families. >> but at the same time, is there not a concern that this windfall tax will not be on consumers. but almost that it will be -- a to invest more in -- in the time when we are facing more big questions about energy security in the uk? >> these are windfall taxes. these are taxes on profits that those companies did not expect to make. the global crisis being higher

than anticipated, so they made more profit than anticipated. they've used expression such as, we've made more money than we know what to do with. the government says, we won't touch that. instead we'll ask family to foot the bill by saying we're gonna give you a loan that you don't want, and you're gonna have to pay it off. so it's a complete -- and the labor partner once a look after people who -- and the government is putting even more pressure on those countries. >> you went to salvatore via, to talk about getting more oil potentially from there. are you comfortable with us providing relying on more energy with saudi arabia then russian oil? >> if we have an energy strategy, here in the uk. >> i just want to get a clear answer. >> of course the human is [inaudible]

the direct question is should we be expecting more oil from saudi arabia? >> we need an energy security structure for the uk. >> it's not clear. >> just hear me out! we need an energy strategy for the uk. it's been likened for ten years. well i would like to see, is an energy structure that is based in the uk. not so much in other countries. saudi arabia, or other countries. one thing that we've learned in the last years, or the last few months, is that is reliant on [inaudible] >> energy now. she will be looking to get more energy from saudi arabia right now? >> if anything can be done to bring the price down now, then week -- when you say okay, the problem with energy is, we've always done the strategy of the next few years. we need to have a strategy that fast forward on nuclear, doubles out wind capability

offshore. increases onshore, develops hydrogen, and has -- to bring the whole price of energy. i want an all energy strategy which is secure, and makes us less reliance on what makes us -- . if this is a short term manager to bring down prices, that's one thing. if it's a long term strategy to bring us -- then i would take a fundamentally different approach. >> okay that makes sense. talking about sanctions, obviously chelsea has been hit by these crumbling sanctions. because the owner, abramovich, is not able to sell tickets. -- he your fit for yourself. do you think this should be a watershed moment for football? to look at how it started? >> yes. and i think that moment has passed. we've had a review, tracey crouch, a conservative mp who has been expected around the

house to carry out the review. and wearing an act on it. so yes, this is in very sharp focus now. but actually, the need to look into the government of football has been coming a long time. >> very quick question. i thought you might want to clear it up. it's something that some people would try to confuse. are you calling for the prime minister to resign, or because of ukraine you've gone back? what is your position on that? >> i have not changed my mind on boris johnson. he has lost the more-ology to lead or be prime minister. i asked him to resign, but only tory and he's can do that. i have to say at the moment, my total focuses on the ukraine, and what we have to do response to the russian aggression there. and i think everyone will understand why my focus is on that vital issue alone. >> thank you very much for coming on the program. thank you so much.

>> thank you. >> now, the ukrainian president zelenskyy, says that his country is working with the european commission to try and fast-track ukraine's membership of the eu. ukrainian parliament, is part of the delegation to the eu and -- and his interest bike for us. thank you for being on the program today. can you explain what you're doing in strasbourg? >> essentially, nine ukrainian members of parliament, women, are part of the international task force to ramp up support. ukrainians from eu country and -- . so last year was essential where that parliament, and we were working with the designation of the un parlatore arians to see how we can move more, and more robust sanctions on russia, and certain countries took half measures. and how we can do more to

expedite ukraine's membership with the eu. this week is going to be about the council of europe expelling russia from every single body of the council of europe. that council has failed to make such decisions, so now it's up to the council of europe to decide in the next few days. we hope that the final resolutions will reach that russia will not just be invited to leave of its own accord and hence be able to come back whenever it sees fit, but that the resolution will read that russia is actually expelled. and then it will be up to the council of european countries to make the decision of whether they are happy to welcome russia back and invite them back. >> you mentioned that some countries have taken half measures on sanctions. who are you talking about? >> well, it's the obvious ones. germany, france, the major countries, they are not doing

nearly as much as they could be doing. the same goes for the purchase of russian oil and gas. some made a decision yesterday to stop with oil and coal, but gastro remains a big one. any penny that goes into the russian economy, goes to finance the russian army. which is essentially committing genocide of the ukrainian people, by massacring civilians every single day. -- there are so many civilian losses in ukraine, and military losses. this is says something about the -- the terrorist state ridging a terrorist war. and they must be stop with all means. and money, and economic sanctions, are very strongly sent towards them. >> i think that's absolutely horrific. i just want to talk about the position you find yourself in. we might be able to settle a picture of you i believe. you had taken up a gun,

yourself. and you say that you're prepared to use it. you've got three children, including a nine month old. just talk me through -- your instyle spoke at the moment, you're planning on returning to ukraine? your children on the ukraine? what's your situation? >> my film situation is complicated. on your social navy a profile, it's complicated. that's my situation right now. i'm very blessed to be in a much better position than many people living in besieged towns such -- as. which has been destroyed yesterday. it's a town in ukraine which had 100,000 people. and now, it's no longer considered livable. it's no longer ad -- . yesterday was the last day that the city was existing at the city. so i guess i'm lucky that again i'm living, breathing, i'm in safety. i'm in a country right now where there is no war. my kids are in safety, i in

fact have a couple of hours with him. just now, just as we speak. so i'm extremely blessed that i have the opportunity to see them for at least a while. but once his diplomatic mission to strasbourg is over, and back to ukraine. that's -- a sad given. but, where do i go back to ukraine? i don't know. because my trip to strasbourg, and later on, it will also include the uk. so next week, i will also be in the uk, also trying to speak with government officials and parliamentarians regarding more sanctions, and regarding more support for ukraine. and on the 18th of march i go back to ukraine. the question is where is that gonna be? because every time i look at the news, more and more cities

are getting bombed as well. including western ukraine. so it's variant does finance i hope to go back to kyiv to my own appointment at some point. as a normal person i miss it greatly. and i would like to just be home. and have some type of home. i can completely understand that. thank you for sharing the experience that you're feeling, like so many people in ukraine. but you mentioned that you are hoping to speak to the uk parliament, and see if there is more than they can do. i spoke to michael gove, asking if there were any points at which the uk should escalate its response to things like providing more weapons, or providing a no-fly zone. it felt that they were quite rook lucked into committing anything like that. what do you make of the uk government's position? >> today, ukraine relies most on uk and on the u.s.. to be honest, these are the two

strategic partners that have always been around through all of the eight years of war that russia has been waging against ukraine. today, the uk has not only the opportunity, but also the responsibility to become the leader of the anti putin coalition. yesterday, and the speeches that we heard from russian tv presenters, which are essentially, the microphones of the kremlin, the message was very clear. after ukraine, russia is not going to stop. they're going to continue their invasion against the eastern european block of countries to take back the russian empire they dream about. essentially, that's a declaration of war on european states and on nato member states. before it's too late, i feel that this anti-putin coalition

-- of georgia, possibly, although, georgia has been very quiet these days, surprisingly -- of the nordic states. this anti-putin coalition could really be the mechanism, the vehicle that can stop putin before it gets too late, and before the extent of the damage and extend of losses of peoples lives grows more than that of the world war ii. >> as you say, the loss of life is so devastating. whether people telling you from ukraine? you must be speaking to people, and friends, family, members who are still there. >> every single day, to be honest, i feel guilty for getting four or five hours of sleep. every time, every hour, something is happening.

there's either missiles, shelling,'s or evacuation buses being shot. tonight, the attacks have extended to the west of ukraine. that happened since last night as well. now, they bombed the peace and security sensor that was located just outside of lviv, just 28 kilometers from poland. people in poland were sending messages saying that they heard tremors in their homes, as everything in the night shook. this is how far they are pushing. the russians are really pushing the borders. i think it's going to be very little time before they start attacking poland. >> that's really concerning. thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us this morning, we appreciate. it >> thank you. >> very powerful interview from alesci if atlanta. we are due to speak to the

deputy prime minister of ukraine. she has been caught in a emergency meeting. it's a very fluid situation, if she is able to join us, we'll bring you the interview. i have something else to talk to you about. we're launching an exciting new program. the take, with sophie ridge. the idea is to be live, every wednesday evening at 9 pm. we're going to take the political temperature, mid week, and react to the big stories of the day, perhaps prime ministers questions. we'll be talking to government ministers, and opposition parties. along with other interesting mps. as always, working to talk to you as well. this is the most important thing, your reaction. we're looking for up -- to take part in the program, and to give their opinions on big political issues of the week. if you want to get involved, if you want to talk about, wednesday please email the take with stole fee ridge at sky dot

uk. that's the take with sophie ridge -- would your politics are. there's more information online if you want to find out more. that's news dot sky.com. plus, our weekly podcast is back this sunday. if you scan the qr code on your screen, you will find the sophie ridge podcast and you can subscribe so it's on your feet every week. on the podcast, there's highlights of the interview on the show. post-match analysis. and also insight in how we put the program together each week. you can find it in subscribe wherever you usually get your podcast. look for sophie ridge on sunday, it should be available later today. vladimir putin has responded to opposition to the war in his own country, with increasing repression. new laws threaten 15 years in jail for sharing so-called misinformation. thousands of people have been detained for protesting. --

the kremlin's most prominent critic. his spokesperson has also been posted on the most wanted list. you get a sense of how harsh the crackdown is in russia. you hope there may be uprising against putin. i spoke to the chief of staff, who is in lithuania. this is what he had to tell me. >> thank you so much for coming on the program. we've all seen the horrors coming out of ukraine. children killed as they've been trying to fleed, maternity hospitals being bombed. how have you felt watching them? >> it feels enormously painful. i want to cry. putin is a president of russia, this is putin's fault. this is not my war. i'm trying to cry as loud as possible. this is not our war. he's doing it not in our name, but it looks like, so far, we are not strong enough to stop him. he's continuing to do all this

normal things in crimes, warcrimes, in our name. we can't stop thinking about how it will define the future of our country, in the 21st century. what will people think and tell of us, in ten or 20 years? will russia become the nazi germany of the 21st century? that's one of the questions we start to pose. -- to do whatever possible to stop him, before it's too late. >> you talk about the russian people, perhaps not being strong enough to stop what's happening. of course, there have been russians who have been protesting against the war in ukraine. some of the west -- taking to the streets to overflow vladimir putin -- would you say to that? >> when i hear this question i say, sorry, guys you guys don't understand a thing. this is a big problem.

the west was trying to comprehend putin's russia -- many people do not understand -- in russia, peaceful protests rally -- 15 years in prison. still, there are people that are participating in this. we've seen massive protests on sunday, march six, and we called for other rallies. we will see other rallies on sunday -- last sunday, over 5000 people have been detained, which means over 50,000 people at, least have, turned out, despite the normal harassment, and persecution that they are facing. 50,000 people brave enough to say, okay i, cannot accept all this horror being done in my

name. i'm ready to go to jail for 15 years, just because this is so unbearable. everyone who protests in russia is enormously brave. everybody who protests, represents, 1000 other people, who stay at home, are not brave enough to -- but they are not to be blamed. putin has built an authoritarian regime for 20 years. -- has been made barely possible. >> i think you're right when you say that people in the west don't understand the situation. there has been a misunderstanding of who putin is. it can be quite difficult to understand or predict what he's going to do. he's such a different leader than the ones who are used to. if the war isn't going as planned, as many think, how do you think he's going to react to somebody who's putin operate over many years? >> here, i have to admit, we didn't even get putin right.

we have been fighting for years, we have considered him to be -- arresting -- i've spent four months until a resident -- we always have considered him rational. now, with this war, it's clear that we were wrong. this war doesn't make sense. he already destroyed russian economy, he already destroy the russian army, he already destroyed russians future. the future of our country is very unclear. no rational man would do that. we have considered him to be rational, so now we have to reassess that. we have to consider him to be a crazy person, which he

apparently is. it's so challenging to predict would a crazy person would do next. we try to address the people around him, who cannot be crazy, not all of them. our actions, the protests, and working on sanctions, talking to other leaders, are all to install as many cracks as possible in putin's inner circle. the people around him. -- a revolution, someone of his close coworkers going against him. it's the only chance to stop this war. what will you do if things don't go according to his plan, nothing goes according to his plan. -- he was about to take kyiv, and maybe four or five days.

when he's now calling for people to come from syria to join russian army forces, it's very clear signs that not everything went according to his plan. no initial plan could include improve -- syrian wars to protect the russian christian world. a lot of things depend on the people of ukraine, how they are ready to fight. they're doing a very good job. -- how are the people of russia ready to fight. -- participate in the protest. it's not very clear that -- has to be paid -- all the sanctions, of course, they also create a burden on european economy. that's quite clear. this cause has to be paid, because otherwise, putin will just destroy the world. >> he could destroy the world,

do you think he would be prepared to use nuclear weapons? that's clearly will many leaders are concerned about. >> he is crazy enough, we cannot expect anything. he's clearly not winning the war, and he might think about other solutions that are more powerful. trying to change the course of this war, that is not successful. from >> finally, in your answer, you said the chance of ending this are for people around him to stop him. do you think that that could happen? the kremlin, do you think, -- do you think there are enough cracks in his inner circle to stop this war and depose him? >> i think so. this is probably the only chance, but it is feasible.

-- what is going on. all the guards have already publicly spoken out against putin's war, which is quite unheard of. many people around him are not bloody maniacs, and do not want this all to happen. i believe that, rationally, it could happen. some people in his inner circle will decide that they are ready to take the risk. to stop it, -- i can't call any names and say this guy will probably try to create some revolution or situation. this is not predictable. we have to keep trying -- to create more pressure on the people around putin to make this scenario more probable.

thank you so much for your insights, it has been really fascinating to talk. thank you. >> nina, right there on his perspective. as one of the outspoken critics of vladimir putin. now we -- have who is the deputy prime minister of ukraine. we'll keep you posted on how that is going. obviously a very fluid situation there. in a moment, after this, break we will also be running through today's interviews. and have a look at some of the analysis of that. with -- so don't go anywhere. so don't go anywhere so, you found the no7 then. it's amazing... hydrates better than the expensive stuff. i don't live here, so i'm taking this and whatever's in the back. it's already sold in the us. but i'm not taking any chances. the uk's best kept skincare secret. just tap and there you have it.

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hello, welcome to use sophie ridge on sunday. where we take a live moment to look back, at this morning's big interviews and discuss what it all means with our deputy editor. of course, my first show back

from nine months. there is no way that i thought we would be in the situation. it's just a different cult watch. i'm sure you feel the exact same. just how relentless, and helpless you feel as you watch what is unfolding in the ukraine. and the government in the uk main, trying to do something. michael, unveiling the plan for refugees. i was really trying to get into the nitty-gritty of whether or not it was going to work. how many people we are going to -- how quickly it's gonna go. can we rely on the home office actually make this happen? we will be listening to his interview a little bit later. plus, a circus of the labor probably -- but to be completely honest, the interview that i really remember far from today is that of the ukrainian mvp. the picture of her holding a gun, talking about her three children, one mine-month-old. talking about how she sleeves for 3 to 4 hours a night.

because that's how much her friends and family in ukraine are getting. and of course, it really brings home just how much the situation that we are in at the moment. let's bring in some -- deputy editor who is listening to the show today. let's talk to you, what are your main takeaways? >> hello sophie! it's great to have you back. and what a world that wave -- that you step back into. one theme ran through all of the interviews that you did. and that is the massive uncertainty that the world, that british politicians, that ukrainians all face. all right now. and three of the various guests, you heard the plans for refugees, the potential plan to deal with crippling energy cross, with rising prices. but the bottom line, sophie, is that middle but he knows whether we are going to be dealing with this ukrainian crisis, the invasion fry russia,

in three months, in six months, or in ten years. and the answers to all the questions that you posed, is that many of these figures are different, depending on what that is. we just cannot know. and that one end of the spectrum, we were talking to the guests about nuclear war. and the realistic prospects that that could be something that we would have to face up to. chilling after two decades, three decades, where that has not at all been on the agenda. but at the end of the spectrum, impossible questions of what to do if there are shortages on so many fronts. energy, food, fertilizer. which is gonna make every day life of misery for millions of britons. so it is imperative. and having gone through breaks, and having gone through covid, which we've talked about the difficult times of head that those potentially could've been. but now we are talking about things on a new scale. and it was, that conversation that we began with --

by talking to michael, the labor secretary, about the government that is literally having to ask questions about nuclear warfare, chemical warfare. and what types of responses there would be to that. that just showed that we are even in the universe when it comes to the current political situation. >> i think that's right, sam. and we were quite shocked about what we ended up talking about on the show today. you feel or spots ability, don't, you that you don't want to be alarmist. but at the same time, you don't want to not address things that world leaders are clearly thinking about all the time, when it comes to their response to russia. and i think we can perhaps bring in, wet micro grove said earlier. he was talking about the grisly options that president putin could designed to adopt. >> we know vladimir putin is prepared to escalate, there are several grisly options that he

has at his disposal. we know that from what's vladimir putin is done elsewhere, what he's done in syria and chechnya. that he is capable of devastation on a terrible, terrible scale. russia is a nuclear armed power. its military doctrine, clearly, has a set of steps of which they can move to that. we are in perilous territory. >> perilous territory. and sam, he obviously doesn't want to be drawn into too many specifics, but it's clear what he's saying is he? >> absolutely. you asked him about chemical weapons, and he made clear that in an event that president putin decides to use chemical weapons, it's happened in syria not that many years ago, there will be another concerted escalation from the west, from nato countries. from all those who are opposing president putin. although i think it's a legitimate to ask, how much

there is two left in the locker that we can do to russia? what is the next game that you can go up to given that treating times, energy links, all of those things are based on russia. on what feels like a daily basis at the moment. where else could we do that isn't already being trained? and then that conversation that nobody wants to hear, which is the fact that russia has hundreds of nuclear weapons. could some of those dark hints from the kremlin actually criminalize or materialize? -- somewhere inside government, there is starting to have to be some planning. to discuss those questions. what could the various steps that russia is taking look like? and i think there is a lot of talk, you are talking to the chief of staff, and he was making absolutely clear, that he does think that president

putin is in the frame of mind that he could use nuclear weapons. and i think that this is one of the reasons why -- for all of the bullet response of the west, nevertheless, had joe biden over the weekend, coming out and saying, there are limits to what they will do. with the west will do to defend ukraine. and that limit does include not sending troops into ukraine itself. for the very fear that this could escalate in some kind of nuclear conflict, which no one wants to see. >> the thing that really struck me from the interview today was how people struggling to, second guess the frame of mind that putin, as you are referring to them, michael talking about his ruthlessness, lena talking about they thought it was rational before. now he's effectively someone who is crazy. as a result, very unpredictable. let's just bring in, you know, for cox. i thought this was the real appealing interview.

let's listen to what he has to say about what putin could do. >> do you think he would be prepared to use nuclear weapons as clearly as white people around the world are concerned about? >> if he is crazy enough, we can expect, unfortunately, everything. he is clearly not really devoid in ukraine. and he might think about other solutions. more powerful weapons, more powerful solutions to change the course of this war. >> we have a big topic of discussion. of course this morning, and on the program as well, was refugees. the un estimates 2.6 million people have already fled ukraine. that number of course could rise. many of those who are vulnerable, women, children, the elderly. of course, many are working age men who are expected to fight. and there's pressure on government to do more in the uk as well. someone on the program today

revealing details a new scheme, where people will be paid 300 pounds a month if they held one of the refugees fleeing from conflict. this is where they had to say about how that would work. >> what is your estimate for the number of people who can come through the uk through this? things >> tens of thousands. once we do everything we can to provide energy and support, expertise, boots on the ground, money, alongside that, we can then see how many people we can take the uk. and again, many of the people who are there will want to, at the moment, stay close to ukraine. there is money available for the local authorities, money available -- for >> how much? >> for each, it will be just under 10,000 pounds per individual. it starts on monday, matching will be taking place on friday. i would expect that in a weeks time, will see people coming here under the scheme. >> let's bring sam straight

back, and shall we. and there has been quickness of the uk government of being sluggish and bringing refugees over to the uk, and not having visas like other countries in the eu. do you think there will be enough to silence that criticism? >> i thought there were two features of the big scheme that michael is gonna formally announce in the house of parliament tomorrow that struck me. and it does, as you say, come after the government hasn't been generous enough. they haven't just open up the door to ukrainians, there are conditions, and hurdles that ukrainians have to get over. and checks that they have to pass in order to come to the uk. the first big thing that struck me about michael gove on yards program this morning, was he was making clear that this is one part of a much bigger armory to help individual ukrainians. almost a mile long list of that

also included humanitarian aid and money. so they can preferably, it would seem to be here in the uk. rather than coming to here in the uk the. british position is they don't expect many people to come back to -- a much more limited number of people that you are seeing being re-housed in countries like poland where hundreds of thousands of people are pouring across the border. so they are justifying proudly, the more limited nature of the scheme that they are constructing. then the second thing, and again i thought this came out well in the interview, just now, is that some of these hurdles that ukrainians are going to have to clear, are quite tricky. affective lee, ukraine's wanting to come to the kingdom are gonna have to be match, with either an individual here or a company, or a charity.

they're gonna have a sponsor. and it's not totally -- we're gonna get more details on how that sponsorship scheme will work. and there is effectively sums -- certainly like a dating app to match the member of people. who do you want to help from the ukraine if you are a british us and wanting to help. to perhaps give your spare room. does this mean that people who are more vulnerable are less likely to get a match because they could be considered under appealing? this is an innovative scheme. and i think the government will get credit for trying something up that pace. but there are potential problems with it as we move into the months. because effectively, individuals look like where -- they will be taking responsibility, and playing a role in choosing who comes into their house. which will work in some cases, but, it could prove a bit tricky as time comes on, particularly if there are people in the uk side who are

-- who don't have the best of motives. people are desperate to be match on the ukrainian side. as they should. i think there are a lot of questions for the scheme that we will hear about in the comments. mara you're certainly right. thank you so much for analysis. we're gonna have more from sam and lies in those interviews, including with the -- after this break. but break bu

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ridge on sunday. we take you back to the mornings interviews with some analysis from me and -- one of the big stories of the morning has been the uk government's new schemes to house refugees from ukraine. we spoke to michael gove, we also saw to label leader to try and find out what he thought of the new housing scheme. >> i'm not against a scheme, i'd say the more you question him, the more i queried exactly

how it's going to work. and have more comfort if there was a solid plan on the table. you need language experts, union experts with traumatize families, you need experts who can help them contact their relatives back in the country they fled from. you need people who can sort out schooling very quickly, you need a local authorities who are completely engaged, and you need housing providers. that can all be done, and it was done in the summer. i would just like the reassurance of knowing that it is in place. >> let's bring in -- . it's always quite difficult for opposition leader, isn't it? when you're in the time of an international crisis to get the tone right on criticizing the government, if needed, but doing it constructively. what did you make of his interview this morning? >> we were walking a bit of a

wobbly tightrope. he doesn't oppose the new refugee scheme that the government will announce, but has lots of criticisms about it. they felt like criticisms of how the old afghan refugees scheme -- a lot of those criticisms that were relevant back then. what i thought was interesting that he didn't do, was basically challenge the fundamentals that is based around the system of sponsorship that we were talking about before the break. it's like he had some boiling played criticisms of refugees schemes, and ruled him out for this, instead of picking up some of the ways the new scheme may or may not ask. it is difficult for him because as he made clear, he wants to show that the uk is united against putin. -- boris johnson, about whom, he said, is mine hadn't changed. -- was fit for office --

i actually thought that the difficult position the labor leader was in came out most clearly in your questioning about what to do in the future about energy. he does look as if britain and the u.s. are going to have to go to saudi arabia, which is face massive criticism, not just for the executions as today, but also, the murder of the american journalist, daniel khashoggi and civil human rights abuses over the years. michael gove was clearly uncomfortable about boris johnson going to saudi arabia to ask them to turn on the taps for oil so that they can lower the energy price. he, on the one hand, want it in the long term energy strategy that didn't involve saudi arabia, but then, at the end of your interview, he's conceded, if in the short term to bring down prices, --

that is one thing that he just doesn't want to see. that kind of answer does risk, potentially, dismaying some labor activist, who might want more clarity on what could be seen as a human rights issue. -- between these two very complex issues. the challenge for him, as always, is to try and provide clarity and cut through, too many of these answers -- does was the danger that you don't. >> i think that's the key with cut through. he's one of those people that likes to feel that he is behaving in a reasonable way. that he can see both sides of the argument, but that doesn't mean he doesn't get those headlines that are going to cut through from that perspective. are you expecting him to be

supportive of the government scheme? >> well, his opening words to you were, i don't oppose the scheme. this would be a position >> would do as many on the left of his party do. cautious, limited welcome, -- on picking the detail. perhaps, more on the new detail that's being set out on the sponsorship end of this rather than on the previous -- >> thank you so much, sam, for being with us. good to be talking to you on a sunday morning. we appreciate your time. sam will be on us -- which is returning, later today. so if you are john sunday podcast, with lots more analysis from the interviews of the show. it's great to be back. thank you very much for giving up some of your sunday morning to join me. it's much appreciated. that is it from sophie ridge on sunday. this morning, we'll be back.

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headlines. russia targets the ukrainian military airbase just 15 miles from nato territory, killing nine people. moscow says there is a new mayor in the city -- of. a day after russian troops were victims of kidnapping the previous mayor. and this sat -- across the city of mariupol. as russia increases shellingn