invaders. there are a lot of people around the years who are bound to be worried about what they see on social media or even actually i come from the u.k. where people have been arrested for posts on social media glorifying violence abroad in various conflict zones. it is a thorny issue. you know, sometimes we don't want to be encouraging such calls. as we started this conversation, i just wish we had some consistency here rather than, as you point out social media companies and governments kind of making it up as they go along just in the context of ukraine. i'm wondering, let's try and make this a universal, global moral moment, if we can. >> yeah, i know. absolutely. thank you very much for that. and great interview with senator warren. very eye opening as always, my friend. >> thank you. >> we'll see you in a little bit. good evening. i'm ayman mohyeldin. today marks the 18th day of russia's invasion of ukraine. we begin tonight with some breaking news. ukraine's state border guard services have announced that

russia and ukraine will meet again to negotiate just a few hours from now about 4:30 a.m. eastern time. now, while this is a diplomatic meeting, we have no sign that putin is actually interested in diplomacy at this point. his only offer to end the war has been to end it on his terms, and that is with ukraine submitting to russia's demands. also tonight, we have some breaking news on a different front. three u.s. officials have confirmed to nbc news that the u.s. government has reason to believe russia has asked china for military equipment as well as other support, we understand. the official did not say what equipment russia asked for and we don't know whether china agreed to the request or whether the u.s. even knows the answer to that question. we will have a live report on that in just a moment. and as we speak, the war is inching closer and closer to the borders of nato. ukrainian officials say at least 35 people were killed and 134

injured when a russian air strike hit a military training facility in western you crane. the facility is only 20 miles from the polish border. that is the most west ward target that has been struck by russia in this conflict yet. now, with russian troops amassing near ukraine's capitol city kyiv, they woke up to the sounds of air raid sirens and an american journalist killed nearby. brent renot a 50-year-old documentary film maker was killed by russian forces near kyiv. another journalist was wounded in that attack. he won a litany of prestigious awards for documentary film making. he and his brother produced programs for a number of american news and media organizations including time, hbo, "the new york times" as well as nbc. a short time ago, times skud yous released a statement that

read, we are devastated by the loss of brent renaud. he tackled the toughest stories around the world alongside his brother craig renaud. our hearts are with all of brent's loved ones. it is essential that journalists are able to safely cover this ongoing invasion and humanitarian crisis in ukraine. nbc news also released a statement that said in part our thoughts and prayers are with his family and friends. lots to cover tonight. tragically as we were just reporting there, we begin with nbc's calipari who is live on the ground in lviv for us. cal, you have been hearing shelling throughout the night. today was a tragic day on many fronts as it has been for the past 17 days. we mentioned we're in the 18th day now. the conflict expanding closer to nato borders. we have now gotten our first report of an american journalist that has been killed. there have been other

journalists, local journalists that have been injured and killed as well. but a lot of tragic developments today. >> reporter: yeah. and you can start 24 hours ago with that air strike. it is about 30 miles from where i am, less than 15 miles, 15 miles from that polish border. at least 35 people killed there. 130 wounded. this is a base that many, many nato countries were using to train ukrainian army soldiers before the war. this was a place where u.s. military advisers had been based in those training missions and it is a place where russia pointed to and said, this is where the military re-supply is coming in. the russian said they will start hitting more and more of these re-supply sites. it is what has people in the west here nervous. you will hear more air raid sirens tonight. you will likely see more strikes. there is concern indeed about the airport here as well. now, to the east in the city of mariupol the situation is getting even worse.

now a week there with no power, no food, no water. they're not able to get anything into the center of that city, that people there are dying from dehydration, from lack of food and from the elements, not just the fighting, though the fighting has killed at least 2,000 civilians there. we have seen video after a mass grave there. that is symbolic of what we're seeing along the black sea where you have russian troops surrounding these troops. we now know that russian troops are making their way to those outskirts. they're starting to encircle that city and the shelling getting worse in the past hour as well in kyiv as people there continue to try to find cover. >> calipari live in ukraine for us. stay safe as always. let's cross over into poland. josh is there covering the diplomatic efforts as well. josh, let's get into some of your reporting about russia's

search for military aid. a, what does that tell us about where russia is in this conflict? and what do we know about the possibility as to whether or not china is prepared to offer that help? >> well, according to three u.s. officials that i spoke with earlier tonight, ayman, russia has now asked china for military equipment and other support. that request, according to those officials took place after russia started its invasion of ukraine. now, we don't know, as you pointed out before, whether or not china has agreed to provide that help. we also don't know exactly what kind of equipment it is, including whether it is lethal weaponry that russia asked for from china. but as you were sort of eluding to, the idea that a country with a military as massive as russia's within just a few weeks of starting this conflict would need to be turning to allies for replenishment and assistance speaks to some of the profound

military challenges that russia has had so far in this war and the lack of progress they have seen, the lack of -- the loss of some of their tanks and their equipment in russia -- in ukraine, i should say. and we also know that this is going to be a key topic tomorrow when the national security adviser for the white house, jake sullivan, meets in rome with a senior chinese diplomat. the white house announcing today that that meeting will take place. and we know that sullivan is expected to raise not only concerns about china coming to russia's aid militarily but also the possibility that china could help russia absorb the blow of these massive economic sanctions that western and other countries have slapped on russia in the recent weeks. the u.s. trying to make the case that china, particularly a country that purports to care very much about the sovereignty of nations. you know, they talk about taiwan all the time and how people need

to respect, you know, country's sovereignty, that they will not then come to russia's aid as they're invaing another country and violating ukraine's sovereignty. but this has been a difficult decision for the chinese, how they have gotten closer to the russians that recent weeks, how much to be aligned with this war that is causing international condemnation and isolation for the russians. the u.s. trying to send the signal that that will happen to china as well if they aid putin in his effort in ukraine. >> josh, really quickly before i let you go, what has been the reaction in poland to the news of that shelling that happened just a couple dozen miles away from the polish-ukraine border. i presume it is a major cause of concern for poland as this war inches closer to their front lines. >> reporter: absolutely. and not only because that base is so close to the polish border, ayman, but also until

recently poland had troops at that base, as did the united states, as did a whole host of other countries that had a presence there helping to train the ukrainians including dozens of florida national guard members that pulled out. this has certainly raised the stakes. but the one thing that poland is citing today that other nato counties are as well is the fact that u.s. including jake sullivan in interviews earlier today making clear that any attack that does broach passed the border into a nato country like poland will be met with an article five nato response from all of these other countries. so they feel secure at this point in time that if there is some type of a deliberate attack on nato territory, even if it is a spillover from the war in ukraine, that that will be met with a strong response. >> all right. nbc's josh letterman in poland for us. josh, thank you very much, my friend. stay safe.

let's bring in our sunday night panel to discuss this. both jack and john have recently come back from reporting on the ground in ukraine. and eugene daniels is a white house author and an msnbc political contributor. great to have all three of you with us. jack, your reaction to that russian air strike near the polish border. is there a serious potential that this is a wider escalation involving nato countries? and what do you make of the news as you are hearing from my colleague there, josh, that russia is seeking military support from china according to military officials. >> so i'm not sure if i see this as a direct provocation of nato. russia has struck military targets in or around lviv before in early days of the war. more so i see it as a very clear indication that the russian

military is willing to escalate this war to parts of the country that had previously gone relatively unscathed. when i was in lviv last week, earlier this week, i believe, you know, there were occasional air raid sirens, but things still felt sort of out of reach. and i think what russia is indicating is that that is no longer the case. we have seen strikes in other cities that had been previously untouched before this as well. so that's how i see these strikes. but obviously it is a concern for nato given the proximity. >> john, let me play for you a clip of democratic congressman jim himes. he, of course, sits on the house intelligence committee. he appeared on msnbc earlier where he was asked about putin's threat that any military assistance to ukraine will be seen as an act of war. we know they are supplying ukraine with weapons.

watch. >> why do we care what vladimir putin's definition of an act of war is? he's murdered in rampid war crimes, murdered thousands of ukrainians. we don't listen to what he believes about an act of war. you heard about what i said about a no fly zone. that's a very bad idea. but giving ukrainians the tools to fight their own war makes a lot of sense. if we're worried that putin will attack nato, what happens then is a very slow motion defeat, which he's experiencing right now becomes a very fast motion defeat. >> so, john, what do you make of that assessment about russia and whether or not russia is prepared to escalate this war to attack western supply routes, western weapons and armaments that are being delivered to ukraine? and more importantly, how should we in the west here perceive those attacks on our supply lines and armaments? >> well, i spoke to polish

lawmakers in warsaw last week who said that the u.s. and the west more generally cannot be naive about the potential for russia to attack nato and nato targets. they said that they are very concerned that russia could potentially take military action in poland or could target supply lines and that these are very serious concerns moving forward. that's perhaps the signal that russia was trying to send today with these strikes so close to poland at this facility where nato troops are trained saying, you know, we're watching. these convoys, these supply lines can be targeted. but, again, that would be a major escalation that could potentially pull in this 30 member alliance that includes nuclear powers like the u.s. that could see this conflict spiral into a global war, which is certainly something not any of us want to see. but, yes, indeed it does seem to be a distinct possibility that we could see russia take drastic

actions given we're already seeing actions from them that are indeed war crimes. >> so, eugene, what is the sentiment inside the white house about all these developments? how concerned are they of an escalation into a nato country. we heard the president reiterate that the united states, that nato will defend every inch of nato. but what i'm interested in is this kind of gray zone where american supplies, american armorments or european supplies are being attacked. although inside ukraine and not in nato. >> yeah. i think it's really important because the president says every inch of nato territory. that is very specific language, right? the vice president said while she was in poland because they want it to be clear that they're not looking to fight in ukraine. they're not looking to fight russia. and that's the sentiment you are continuing to fight in the white house even as these things continue. but they do have big concerns about this, right? because it does make nato have

to sit down and have these conversations about, okay, if they start attacking these armorments or these lines, what do we do with that? i think that is something that members of nato are going to continue to talk about. and, also, what happens if an errant missile? you're talking less than two dozen miles away, this attack that happened today. now they have to decide if it's an accidental missile, is that the same thing as something on purpose because one of the most important things that this white house has done and what they're quite proud of is bringing nato together, having some nato countries do more when it comes to giving ukraine help than they have ever done before in a situation like that. so that means they have to keep nato together. they have to continue, as you say -- as they said, we're going to protect nato countries if that happens and poland is sit, then they have to figure out how to make sure they make good on these promises. so the stakes as we all know are incredibly high. so there is a lot of concern in

the white house right now as this continues to unfold because as we all know, vladimir putin is the only one that could make decisions here. a lot of people it is really hard to get in his head. >> jack, how do you expect, since you were there on the ground, how do you expect the next week of this conflict to potentially play out. will the slow pace of the russian advance continue? do you expect or have reason to believe that there is a desire to widen the conflict within ukraine to neighboring areas of lviv and perhaps other population centers? and do you have any reason to believe that this third or i believe fourth meeting now that may take place on the border between ukraine and russia may produce some kind of humanitarian safe passage for millions of people? >> i think the russian military has demonstrated up until this point that their strategy is going to be to inflict the most pain and death as possible wherever they can. i think the strikes in lviv are

an indication today that they're saying they can inflict that pain. this could be a test of the air defenses around lviv. and i think if they think it's in their incentive to bomb that city from afar with more cruise missiles, then they will. i think we will see it's a continuation of the misery and the desperate humanitarian crisis in cities like mariupol and kharkiv. if they have the resources to do so, they will. the question is not their willingness to cause this destruction, it's just the logistical realities of where they can apply it. and i think anywhere that they can, they will. >> incredible. panel, stick around. we have a lot more to discuss. still ahead, i will speak with congresswoman susan wild who

just got back from the ukraine/poland border. i will talk to her about that and more. hat and more ♪ ♪ hey, i get it, commitment can be scary. but not when you're saving up to 15% with subscribe and save at amazon. you get free repeat delivery on your favorite items and if things don't work out, you can always cancel. seriously, no one will judge you if you call it off. ok! learn all the ways to save with amazon.

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this weekend the white house announced that it is sending an additional $200 million in military assistance to ukraine to aid in its defense against russian troops. that brings the total amount of security assistance to $1.2 billion since the beginning of the biden administration.

the humanitarian aid that has been delayed in reaching mariupol is expected to arrive today. they have been without food, water, and medical supplies for more than a week now. democratic congresswoman susan wild of pennsylvania just returned from a congressional delegation. she's a member of the house foreign affairs committee and joins me now. congresswoman, thank you so much for your time this evening. you just returned from the border there with a group of bipartisan lawmakers. what was it like seeing the devastation, the impact of this war firsthand? what were your impressions and key takeaways? >> thank you for having me again. it is an experience i will never forget. it was absolutely the most moving thing i have ever seen. we were at the border where 125,000 ukrainians crossed over the border the day we were

there. as you know, more than 2.5 million had crossed into poland thus far. we met with people on the ground. we met with refugees. we met with top military officials. we met with our u.s. troops. we met with secretary of state blinken. and all i can tell you is that there is nothing like being the eyes and ears of what is happening in ukraine as we -- when we came back to d.c. the other thing i have to point out is that the eight of us, four democrats, four republicans were absolutely unified and no light between us in terms of what needed to be done. the united states and all of our allies have to do everything we can. >> i understand you and your colleagues spoke to president volodymyr zelenskyy during that visit. what specific message did he have to members of the congress who he knows have a lot of

influence in terms of what the united states could financially do and ultimately if the u.s. gets involved in this in some capacity militarily would require authorization from you and your colleague. >> well, he made a plea for as much financial assistance as possible in the form of military aid, in the form of ammunition and all kinds of hardware. and i'm pleased to say that when we got back to washington we very quickly were able to take a vote on that on wednesday night and authorize that $13.6 billion, of which there was a partial drawdown today to make sure that that assistance was getting to ukraine immediately. that was his first request. i will say he's asked for a no fly zone, which unfortunately is just not something that we can do. it would literally lead to an escalation. it would not be good for the ukrainian people or for anybody else. but he did make a plea that we

facilitate a transfer of these old russian war planes that are in the possession of poland. we came back to the united states with the full expectation that that was going to happen. i have to tell you that all eight of us were somewhat disappointed that that did not happen. but i will tell you that we have the utmost faith in the u.s. intel that has happened thus far. all of us agree it is spot on. we were told that by every official on the ground. i have to think there is intel or strategy of which we are not yet aware having to do with the transfer of those war planes. but we have to stand ready to do everything we can. sanctions, yes. every possible type of sanction to the highest level. but we also have to make sure that we are standing by with troops on the ground. we met with thousands of troops while we were there. not just american, but british and bench and canadian, german. and we have to make sure that we

are fully prepared to demend our nato allies, poland which of course is now very much concerned because of the proximity of the hits over the last 24 hours and i'm concerned also. the last hit was just 12 miles from the polish border where we, members of congress, stood on sunday of last week greeting refugees coming across that border. so we're in a dire situation here. >> congresswoman, do you know if the u.s. is providing or should be providing real-time intelligence to ukrainian forces in their fight? certainly we're providing weapons. as you said, you would like to see those fighter jets transferred to ukraine. should we go so far as to provide real-time intelligence to the ukrainians in defense of their country? >> i don't know whether we are. i'm not on the intel committee. i suspect that we are, but i -- that is just my best guess.

and i think we absolutely should be. listen, i'm sure vladimir putin would consider that to be an escalation. we considered everything to be an escalation, including providing humanitarian aid to mothers and children and people with cancer who are on the ground in ukraine, which is just appalling. everything is an escalation to putin. and, so, the fact that we are or might be providing intel i don't think should be -- i don't think we should in any way be deterred by concerns about whether putin will see that as some sort of escalation. we need to provide everything we can to the ukraine government and the ukraine people. >> all right. congresswoman, thank you so much. it is great to see you again. thank you for coming on. >> thank you. any time. coming up, could be staging an attack on the chernoybl new

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new today, ukraine says it has restored a broken power line to the chernobyl power plant. the ukraine defense and intelligence agencies claim that vladimir putin ordered an attack at chernobyl. officials allege that putin intends to create a man made catastrophe that russians will try to pin on the ukrainians. how should we interpret this warning? let's bring in the executive control of the arms, dedicated to arms control measures on nuclear chemicals and biological weapons. joining us is a senior adviser of policy and advocacy who served as the senior director for nonprolive nation arms

control at the arms control in the obama administration. i would like to start with you and this latest claim from the ukrainian government. we should note there has been a gap between how ukrainian officials are categorizing these concerns and what international groups are saying. earlier this group, the un watchdog issued this statement trying to calm concerns that a power black-out could lead to a nuclear disaster. from your area of expertise, how worried should we be right now about what is going on inside these plants? and who do you rely on information when it comes to what is happening there? >> well, in a chaotic situation like this where russian forces are occupying and firing upon these sensitive power plants, we've got to use all information sources and triangulate. but i think the ai/ea report today from the director general was cold comfort mixed in with

that good news about the power being restored again from the transmission line. there is other bad news about the problems that the plant workers still are having. they haven't been able to change shifts. they're working under extreme pressure. they're not able to communicate freely with their nuclear regulators and the ia-ea. so we are continuing to express a great deal of concern. i think the way we have to look at this, ayman, is this is not just once incident that took place last week at the other plant, the fire and the situation at chornobyl. this is a rolling potential catastrophe in ukraine with respect to these power plants. we have power plants that have already taken place near disasters and i think we could see problems ahead. if there is an accident here, it

will clearly be russia's responsibility for creating these very unsafe conditions for the operation of these power plants. >> yeah. no. you're absolutely right by emphasizing this is a rolling concern and should not be viewed as a one off situation that's been resolved. russia has gained control over multiple ukrainian power plants as outlined there and as we have seen in the last 18 days. what is putin's end game here? because is this simply a show of force or could the russians be planning something more sinister? i fail to understand why russia would jeopardize the safety of its own troops and given the way things may play out with any radiation flow it may blow back into russia. so i don't see what incentive oracle cuelation they may have in jeopardizing the safety of these nuclear facilities. >> well, unfortunately, i can think of a few reasons why vladimir putin would want to seize these facilities.

you want to have possession of telecommunication, power line, critical infrastructure so you could turn off the power, turn it back on. but his case has been built in russia that there are falsely nazis, terrorists taking over ukraine and if he could pin a nuclear accident on those forces he could use it as justification to say, look, that's why we had to go into ukraine, why we couldn't allow them to threaten us the way they have clearly decided to do. nobody in the west is going to believe that. i think very few people in moscow or russia will believe that. increasingly people are aware that vladimir putin is responsible for multiple acts of terror, not only in syria, in georgia and moldova and ukraine but the bombings in moscow in 1999 and the subway building bombings in the early 2000s. this is a ruthless man who is

prepared to inflict pain on his own people and on the countries that he attacks in order to either possess them or lay waste to them if he can't have them. >> yeah. that's also a very important point. it's been two weeks since putin put russian forces on high alert. this is a person who vladimir putin who is by some accounts a madman. has anything occurred in those two weeks that you fear has brought us closer to a nuclear conflict? >> well, the mere fact that russia has put some of its nuclear forces on alert, putin has been rattling the nuclear saber makes it clear that he's -- he is thinking about nuclear weapons. it is a reminder that we could have over the next few days, weeks, possibly, direct military contact between nato and russian forces that can be dangerous,

lead to wider war. and because both sides are nuclear armed, it has the potential for nuclear escalation. thankfully, i think russia's nuclear forces did not go to the higher levels of alert. thankfully, joe biden acted with restraint and wisdom and did not respond in kind by raising the u.s. nuclear alert levels. but i think one way we need to look at this entire war, the ukrainian people are undergoing enormous suffering now. it is likely to continue as the war goes on for the next several probably weeks. and there is the potential for an escalation over this long period of time. everybody remembers the cuban missile crisis of 1962 as acute and dangerous and perhaps more severe a nuclear crisis that was. it lasted for 13 days. we're already passed 13 days with this situation. >> yeah. >> and many more possibilities

for escalation, nuclear accidents at these nuclear facilities could occur. that's clearly why, i think, everyone agrees there has to be an immediate cease fire, an immediate russian withdrawal of forces. >> i want to get your thoughts on a major headline this week. the white house sounding the alarm over a new russian propaganda campaign that they fear is setting the ground work for the use of biological or chemical weapons. and quite honestly, we have seen remarkable intelligence from the united states into the thinking of russia and their actions. it's been pretty remarkable one has to admit the way the united states basically called this war over the last several months and how they anticipated it playing out. what do you make of this new threat from the white house? they would not have made that had they not had some credible intelligence mind it. >> i think there are several

things at play here. they likely do have intelligence at some element inside the russian military are planning some use of chemical weapons. it is unclear something in the order of chlorine which was used in syria or perhaps more related to nerve agents with the russians have continued to possess in violation of treaty. but also i think just looking at the russian play book, what happened in syria that vladimir putin has not been reluctant to use these weapons. he views them as effective weapons of terror in order to demoralize population. the white house is right to get ahead of this. it is ironic and angering, the united states and europe spend hundreds of millions of dollars securing what the soviet union left over in a biological weapons program and a chemical weapons program to make sure they're safe, disarmed that the scientists involved didn't go migrating to places like iron or north korea.

here we are seeing russia not only invade a country that cooperated in those efforts but threatening to use them against those countries. we have to be thinking about whether the world after the war in ukraine can live with vladimir putin in charge and what that means for nato policy going forward. >> gentlemen, thank you so much. greatly appreciated your insights and analysis this evening. still ahead, those russian boycotts might not be as effective as you think. i will explain that next. fectivk i will explain that next allergies don't have to be scary. spraying flonase daily stops your body from overreacting to allergens all season long. psst! psst! flonase all good. ♪ ♪ ♪a little bit of chicken fried♪ ♪cold beer on a friday night♪ ♪a pair of jeans that fit just right♪ ♪and the radio up well i've seen the sunrise...♪ get 5 boneless wings for $1 with any handcrafted burger. only at applebee's

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♪ ♪ ♪a little bit of chicken fried♪ ♪cold beer on a friday night♪ ♪a pair of jeans that fit just right♪ ♪and the radio up well i've seen the sunrise...♪ get 5 boneless wings for $1 with any handcrafted burger. only at applebee's let me introduce you to alexander. he is 20 years old and widely considered one of the greatest pianists of his generation. he's a prodigy and there is no exaggeration to that. in the past few years he's toured the globe, performing with some of the world's most revered orchestras. and this week he was in canada

preparing for a set of shows with the montreal symphony until those shows were canceled. see, alexander is russian. is he putin's grandson? is he a relative? no. is he related to a russian oligarch? he is not. did he speak in support of the war in ukraine? quite the contrary. he took to social media in the early days of the invasion declaring the truth is that every russian will feel guilty for decades because of this terrible and bloody decision that none of us could influence and predict. but, alas, here's the thing. alexander, he's still russian and that seems to be the thing that matters the most these days. you see, he is just one victim of an absurd ballooning phenomenal here in the united states and around the world. works are being removed from

concerts. russian movies are being pulled from film festivals. russian-own restaurants are being vandalized and flooded with negative reviews. for crying outloud here, russian vodka is being poured out into the street. forgive me, but i must state the obvious. boycotting russian culture doesn't help the people of ukraine. yes, this is the worst humanitarian crisis europe has experienced in generations and passions are very high. but let's not turn this into another freedom fries moment. we need to take a step back and separate a country's culture from its political leaders. otherwise, all we're doing is ruining a 20-year-old piano prodigy's life just so we can feel that we're on the right side of history. we'll be back with my panel after this. 'll be back with my after this develop their passion for learning through our grow up great initiative. and now, we're providing billions of dollars for affordable home lending programs...

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. the russian cultural boycotts are going too far, and my panel is back with me to discuss this. let's bring back jack crosby and gentlemen, it's good to have you with us. what do you make of this surge of russia phobia. people vandalizing russian restaurants, russian vodkas being poured. this is a step too far. what do you make of it?

>> i think this is sort of the reaction you see when you have a population of people like we are in the united states that's seeing atrocities play out in front of their eyes and ones they relate to but you know, i think, yeah, this is people who don't have an effective way to show pour hoe think it's a poor decision. people in large numbers are not the best decision makers.

>> what can we do to get decision-makers to change course, when does it ebb into the realm of bigotry or absurdity? >> it's great to donate to charities helping with the humanitarian crisis, it's great to see the west ban together. but in the same way that when we see jihadist attacks, we shouldn't blame all muslims. we can't blame all russians for this war. there are thousands of russians protesting this war in russia right now. i believe upwards of 15,000 have

been arrested so far. we need to remember that people protesting this war are literally risking their lives and freedom. putin does not take kindly to dissent. one of the stories is that of alexei navalny who was poisoned and thrown in prison. so it's not safe to oppose putin, but people are still doing it. blaming all russians for this is indeed stupid and absurd. if you are pouring out things like vodka, that's produced in latvia. there are better ways to boycott ukraine than stereotyping all russians. so, but these are things to think about as people try to band together and show support

for ukraine. >> what do you make of this russia phobia that we are seeing? >> i agree with everyone on the panel here, it's something that at its heart, people are looking for ways to support ukraine. so when you tell these stories and people hear these stories, it bothers them, and it should, right? do we wish it should bother them more when it happens to black and brown folks? that's a different conversation. but it is unlikely that something that a united states citizen, a person or a person that lives in this country does during this time is going to change the mind of vladimir putin, right in if his mind is going to be changed, it's going to be changed because of the sanctions, because of what

nato's doing. not pause of pouring vodka on the streets. it might make you feel better, but there are other places to spend your money, not buy the vodka to pour it out, and better ways to spend your time and energy. >> on a topic you touched upon, syria, the analogy is back in, i think it was 2014, maybe 2015, the obama administration had its red line about chemical weapons. there's now talk about chemical weapons possibly being deployed. what should the white house response be? we heard president biden say there would be a severe price to pay. is that the same type of red line language we should avoid? >> i think this is a re

difficult question. when, if ever, a united states-led nato invasion in this war is going to be justified. i think, and i think many people believe that there is nothing good that will come out of the united states getting involved in this war, and i think that's why the biden administration has not set any red lines. the only red line that they've set is articlev. but i think what that means for the united states and everyone who votes for the leaders of the united states is we have to be real about the fact that the ukrainians are going to die in this war. and that blood is going to overwhelmingly be on the hands of vladimir putin, but if critics of the united states want to look at responsibility for this war we need to also scrutinize our own elected leaders' decisions leading town

this and scrutinize their performance above all. >> i'm sorry i gave you a tough question that could have lasted for an entire hour and expected you to answer it in under a minute. appreciate your insights. thank you all three of you for your insight this is evening. >> thank you very much, everyone. stay tuned for more of our msnbc's rolling coverage of the russian invasion in ukraine. i'll see you back here at 11:00 p.m. eastern. t 11:00 p.m. eastern i earn 5% on our cabin. i mean, c'mon! hello cashback! hello, kevin hart! i'm scared. in a good way. i'm lying. let's get inside. earn big time with chase freedom unlimited with no annual fee. how do you cashback? chase. make more of what's yours.

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