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it's 0 10:00 p.m. in new york and here is the latest. in just a few hours, there will be talks between ukraine and russia. they will beginning talks at 4:30 a.m. eastern time. missiles pounded a military base near the border. 135 people were injured in that airstrike. in the meantime, the red cross is warning of a worst-case scenario. these satellite images show the scope of destruction on the

ground. its city council said nearly 2200 of its residents have been killed. and tonight we're learning more about the death of an american journalist. in a statement, times says the little rock native was working on aing project for "time" films. renaud's film survived the attack. >> someone offered to take us to the other bridge and they started shooting at us. the driver turned around, my friend is brent renaud and he's been shot and left behind. >> volodymyr zelenskyy said this was a purposeful attack by the russian military and they knew what they were doing.

earlier, zelenskyy visited with wounded soldiers and awarded them a medal at an undiscloseed location. the u.s. government has reason to believe that russia has asked china for military equipment and other support. the officials declined to elaborate on whether china agreed to the request. but we begin tonight in lviv, ukraine, with msnbc correspondent cal perry on the ground. i want to ask you about the new negotiations between ukraine and russia happening in just a few hours. what can we expect, what should we expect in. >> reporter: yeah, so the strangest thing about these negotiations that will start in six hours is we're actually hearing some optimism from both sides. this is the first optimism we've heard since the war began. the ukrainian team is saying for the first time over the weekend that the russian team was

speaking constructively about issues. you'll remember we had a meeting in turkey last week, and that meeting failed. i mean, there was nothing agreed on, and even the ukrainian foreign minister said about his counterpart that he didn't think he had any power, that he thought he was powerless in the negotiations and only putin could speak on the negotiations themselves. the russiaen demands have been that ukraine surrender, at that they give up any rights to nato. it will be interesting to see what comes off the table, what remains on the table and if they can come to some kind of agreement. >> what have you learned about the attack on the military base just 20 miles from the border with poland? >> reporter: between me and the polish border. i can tell you we know that

russian tv is reporting that a number of foreign fighters was killed. that's the way the russian government is presenting it to russians. in the past few years, u.s. trainers included, have been training ukrainian forces on the ground there. but american forces have left. it's not clear what was on that seethe. we do know that the russians accuse them of being a rearming mission. now to new reporting in nbc news the. the u.s. has reason to believe russia has asked china for support. that according to three u.s. officials. joining me now from warsaw,

poland is josh letterman. what do you know about this request from the kremlin to the chinese? >> we know this request came after russia began its invasion a few weeks ago. we don't know exactly what kind of equipment the russians were asking for, whether it included lethal weaponry. we don't know whether the chinese agreed to it or if the u.s. even knows how the chinese responded to that request. but just the mere fact that russia, a few weeks into an invasion would be looking for hope from an ally speaks to some of the military challenges that russia has been facing this campaign. the russian embassy in washington has not gotten back to me about this new reporting, but i did hear from the spokesman from china's embassy in the u.s. who said he'd never

heard about this. china support deescalation. and to avoid a massive humanitarian catastrophe. but the u.s. has been very concerned about what role china has played this this. we've seen this display between and russia. and there are also concerns not only about china helping russia militarily, but also helping it to absorb the blow of the sanctions that the u.s. and the west have been slapping on russia. the u.s. national securit

synchronizer. >> they think if they can kbal bail russia out. in terms of the specific means of doing that, i'm not going to lay all that out in public. >> reporter: jake sullivan now heading to rome where he is expected to meet tomorrow with a senior chinese diplomat to discuss those very concerns, mehdi. the u.s. trying to make sure china understands. >> thank you for your reporting. appreciate it. my next guest was u.s. ambassador to ukraine from 2003 to 2006. john herbst is now at the

atlantic council. what do you make of this reporting from the nbc news just confirmed that russia has asked china for military support. >> your correspondent got it right. it poses a dilemma for the chinese. you know, the joint communique that they issued four weeks agole evened to show strong support. so the chinese have to think clearly, precisely about whether they want to be further associated with this. and the answer may well be no. which could be a further embarrassment for mr. putin.

>> i know you signed an open letter suggesting there should be a limited no-fly zone over part of the country. this morning, john kirby said it's a nice word, but it's he really a combat zone, and they're rolling it out, the u.s. government, because that involves shooting russian aircraft down and probably having u.s. aircraft shot down. >> it would not involve any russian anti-aircraft installations. we would protect convoys and civilians escaping from a war zone, and it would all be on the russians. do they want to attack those vulnerable assets in the face of u.s. military power in do they want to attack u.s. planes in i think the answer is probably no.

they have their hands full with the ukrainians. why would they want to be in an air shooting war with nato in it would be the deaths of thousands of ukrainians. that is something the pentagon does not want to address. >> you're right to say that your version of the plan would involve the russians engaging first. but aren't we slightly in playground territory there? who cares who starts first? we want to avoid world war 3le . >> we want to avoid the deaths of thousands of innocent ukrainians. is putin crazy enough to want a conventional war with nato, which he will lose in a major way? then the second question is, would putin threat and nuclear

escalation? and i have no doubt he would threat and nuclear escalation. but would he actually push a nuclear button, when he knows that's as dangerous for him tass is for us. >> that's assuming that putin care at some point. coming up next, congressman joaquin castro on what the united states can do. what about that to-fly zone. >> the west wants to think that this is the war of russia against ukraine, but this is actually the war of russia against the whole of thele sievized west. and they've already started talking. the next country after ukraine

will be poland and lithuania, they are openly discussing this on russian television. openly d on russian television. about lift we keep moving forward. we discover exciting new technologies. redefine who we are and how we want to lead our lives. basically, choose what we want our future to look like. so what's yours going to be?

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? ? in? he is the aggressor. and putin must pay the price. >> with russia's war of choice now p stretching into a weeks-long campaign, the white house is searching for any sense of an off-ramp to get putin to pull out of ukraine. the united states accurately predicted the start of a war, despite moscow's denials. predicting how it might end is far more difficult, even with ukrainians begging for more offensive weapons. what should be the united states' next move? congressman joaquin castro joins

us. i want to start by asking you with p what we just heard in the a-block of this show from john herbst, who says there is the possibility of a the zone. >> you're talking about a country that has 6,000 nuclear warheads. it's a very different situation. and also you're talking about a shooting down russian jets. at that point, the united states would be in a direct war. from that point when children were getting under desks in schools you would have that

conflict upon us now. i'm not surprised that ukrainians are asking for every kind of help at that they can get. that is no surprise at all. and we've passed recently about $14 billion in aid. we're starving the russian economy. our businesses are pulling out of russia. so the russian economy is continuing to starve that way in the private sector as well. so the united states and the biden administration are doing a lot. and we should continue to look for other ways to help. but i don't think thatno-fly zone is the most prudent choice. >> he can continue to face stiff resistance in ukraine, really unheard of opposition on this scale at home. can he ten to face these

consequential economic measures are that have brought devastation upon his economy and financial system or he can choose the path of genuine diplomacy, genuine deescalation and will be met on the other end of the table with our ukrainian partners, and we will be standing with them on that. >> in a few hours' time, russians and ukrainians will meet for negotiations, 4:30 a.m. eastern. are you optimistic that could be genuine diplomacy or the start of it? >> my hope is that at some point and some point very soon the russians will engage in genuine diplomacy to have a cease-fire to stop this invasion and this war. the problem that we have with vladimir putin and the russians is they've obviously been very duplicitous. and it's very hard to trust anything that they say. as i mentioned earlier, we've been supportive of ukraine militarily. the world, not just the united

states, the world is starving the russian economy right now, and they're basically on an island by themselves, and that's why they're desperately reaching out to china and whoever they can to try get help. that would also be imprudent for china to help, because they would be taking a clear side with russia, and they would also be ostracized and risk sanctions of their own. but yes, i hope that they will come to the table in earnest and vladimir putin will stop this war. >> congressman, you mentioned ostracizing and sanctions and it is unprecedented to see the way russia has been cut off from the financial economy, cultural boycotts, and there is this plea for the chinese to get involved. you can't sanction or isolate china the same way can you russia, can you? we would be in a different ball game. can from we certainly would be this if a different ball game. the chinese economy is more

intertwined with the world than the russian economy is. there are some countries that have more than 50% of their energy coming from russia, and they took swift action. china's got a belt and road initiative. i think it would hit a brick wall if they decided to go that route. >> last question to you. we've talked about the immigration, refugee border situation. are you a texas congressman. is it weird that we have a united states government saying we need to support ukrainians refugees, at the same time, this democratic administration is p keying title 42, blocking asylum seekers from coming into the united states from there. >> i supporting taking in ukrainian refugees. but it gets to something i've

said many year now, in the american be mind, our concept of a refugee is still stuck in the 1950s or '60s and we think of refugees as people who are kneeing an active dictator, situation of war. don't get me wrong, those certainly qualify asing refugees. but there are other people around the world who are in a slow burn and not an active war, and we are to recognize their humanity as well and accept them as refugees as well. >> congressman joaquin castro, thank you for taking time out tonight. appreciate it. >> good to be but. next our breaking news tonight, a new meeting between the ukrainians and russians is just hours away. we look at the diplomatic efforts to try to end russia's aggression and the growing humanitarian crisis on ukraine's

borders. also ukrainian civilians bracing for another long week of russian attacks. nick martins that story from the historic city of odesa. >> we meet an elderly couple. we want to know what they think about russia's chances here. they'll not get through. intuit quickbooks helps you easily send your first invoice in 3 steps. simple.

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open up their homes. >> reporter: tonight emotional reunions at the border. families safe from war, but exhausted and worried. my husband was so afraid for us, he forced us to leave, he says. more than 1.6 million refugees have fled to poland. warsaw and other big cities are overwhelmed. at this temporary shelter on the border, refugees only stay for a night or two. natalia and her family are heading to spain to stay with her daughter. are you worried about finding a place to sleep until are you able to go to spain? we're not worried, she tells me. we're just happy no bombs are falling. the u.n. says 304,000 refugees have now moved on to other european countries. 109,000 in germany. where volunteers greet refugees at the train station in berlin

and find them help and a home. 35,000 in italy, where a bus overturned. but the vast majority are staying in poland, just five miles from the border, this mall polish village of 500 has taken in 80 ukrainian families, like this 17-year-old and his family. they fled kharkiv nearly a week ago. >> we cross the border. and big line. and we waited for one day, i guess. >> reporter: for a day in. >> maybe more, because it was a very, very long line. >> reporter: this retired couple offered their home after seeing the thousands of families with nowhere to go. when i see the mothers with the

little children, it breaks my heart, he says, he and his wife worry poland could be next. you're afraid russia could attack poland? we feel very threatened, she says, i think about it every day. >> in a few hours, russia and ukraine will meet for negotiations. this is the fourth round of talks between the two countries since putin's invasion began. in a call with france and germany this weekend, putin gave to indication he would stop the war. that according to a french official who witnessed the conversation. french president macron also discussing the crisis earlier today with president biden. joining me to talk about what could come of these negotiations is catherine stoner, the author of "russia resurrected." thank you for joins us, congresswoman jackie speier says

diplomacy will work with putin on one condition. >> we've got to craft a win for putin, which is kind of disgusting to have to even say that, but for this wrar to come to an end, at that's what we have to give him, something that he can go home and say, you know, i have, i'm victorious. >> do we have to give putin a victory, as the congresswoman put it there whether we like it or not? >> well, it depends on what our perception is for the future of ukraine in particular, right, the whole point of this war is really a question of ukrainian sovereignty. so, if mr. putin doesn't absorb ukraine, which appears to be the goal, then what is the

face-saving victory horizontal that. one thing that's debatable right now is whether ukraine would give up any aspiration to join nato. it wasn't enough before this war started but maybe it would be helpful now. >> there was this furious debate, including here in the u.s., in the u.s. media, online, about prior to the war, about whether the nato expansion, whether they hud be allowed to join nato at some point in the future. it was a factor in putin's saying he doesn't accept ukraine's independence, but you seem to be suggesting that it could be a factor if resolving this, in giving putin some kind of win saying see, see, i

stopped them from joining nato. >> let me clarify. i don't think that this is actually really about ukraine joining nato. it's about ukraine being drawn more into the west, because it's a sovereign country that wants to modernize and have its people live better, the success of governments in ukraine have wanted to join the european union, and the north atlantic treaty organization or nato. and now we can see why that might be, because mr. putin doesn't recognize ukraine as a sovereign state. and the problem is, 44 million ukrainians strongly disagree with that. and, you know, in the 21st century, we live not by the rules of the 19th century or

18th century and seize somebody's land. i think there would probably be more than that. remember these are regions in ukraine that mr. putin has recognized on russia's behalf as sovereign or independent from ukraine. the next question is what happens with them. no one else really in the world recognizes those as independent countries except our friends in belarus, being a little sarcastic there. mr. putin's friends in belarus, that's another issue. think about war reparations. a lot of damage has been done. who's going to pay for that? peacekeepers. that's another issue. >> that's a very good point about what would happen post war. what are your expectations for the coming meeting between russian and ukrainian diplomats?

in just a few hours, cal perry was suggesting there is optimistic rhetoric from both sides for once. >> yeah, that's interesting. we're seeing it on twitter, and wendy sherman, the deputy secretary of state from the united states indicated that there was some hopeful movement. i hope that is true. it's going to be tricky for mr. slint zelenskyy, so he can give in on some things but not others, perhaps saying, okay, we'll drop the demand to join nato, but we won't demilitarize. well, if he said at that they did, would demilitarize, then i think there are a lot of ukrainians who would say no, no. they just killed my father or my family or my child died. they're not going to go along with that. so we have to be careful to see

what mr. slips could actually pull off politically as well as here. the ukrainians' interests have changed with the experience of war now. >> the craziest part of this whole war is that if vladimir putin really didn't want ukraine to join nato, invading would be the worst thing for arguing that. catherine stoner, we thank you for your analysis there. after the break, my conversation with a winner of the nobel peace prize. she spent her career trying to rid the world of nuclear weapons. what she had to say about the new nuclear threat from russia, and inside ukraine thousands are still struggling to escape the violence. here's skynews' alex crawford. >> reporter: with sharking hands and uncertain steps, the terribly old and terribly frail are pushing through their fear,

somehow putting one step in front of the other, coaxed forward an inch at a time, by younger hands and fitter bodies to make this awful journey into yet more uncertainty. they've been through so much already it's a wonder they've gotten this far, and they're heading into a capital that could also be bombarded. those who are escaped know it's just pure fate. something went through the air and then boom, she tells us. all the windows were broken and the bloeb fell down, and the tenth floor above us was just dust. my daughter came and said, mama, take your stuff. until this, i didn't want to leave my town, she says. wait, you're new too nobody told you? subway's refreshing with better ingredients, better footlongs, and better spokespeople. because you gotta you gotta refresh to be fresh (vo) right now, the big switch is happening across the country.

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late last month, vladimir putin ordered his country's nuclear forces to be on higher alert. some leaders said putin was bluffing, including president zelenskyy of ukraine, and now at war between russia and ukraine intensifies, so have putin's implied threats to use nuclear weapons. putin's been backed into a corner. how might he decide to save face in and if we escalate our intervention, will he lash out with nukes? earlier i spoke with beatrice

finn. beatrice finn, thank you so much for joining me on the show this evening. how worried are you with putin having put his nuclear forces on high alert the world may be closer to a nuclear exchange than ever before in our lifetimes? >> i'm really, really worried. it's a kind of confrontation we haven't seen since probably the cuban missile crisis to be honest. and it's extremely worrying, not just because we see russia threatening to use nuclear weapons, but also it hinders from helping in ukraine and making us paralyzed. making us watch. and the consequences would not be just catastrophic where it happens but for the whole world. it sends a lot of fear around the world, a lot of anxiety

about this, and it's really real. >> and beatrice, do you think people, especially younger people in the west whose only real experience in war has been the u.s. taking out small, weaker nations like afghanistan, libya. do you think they understand what it means to escalate via a no-fly zone, the risks that are involved here? >> this is where nuclear weapons are being used, not to preserve peace and stability but to blackmail the whole world. and we're seeing that putin is using it to get everyone to stay out, meaning we would have to watch these things unfold. how much are we prepared to watch ukrainians suffer before we dare to intervene.

and the idea of no-fly zones. i want to help ukrainians right now. i feel frustrated. the fact that also the west has nuclear weapons means that the stakes are so high. would you risk nuclear war? and nothing would really justify nuclear war. >> and you mentioned blackmail, which is a good word. on the one hand, what's happening in ukraine is a representation. is it not an incentive to smaller countries like iran or ukraine itself to get nuclear weapons in the future to present themselves from the beggar, nuclear-armed powers like russia or the u.s.?

>> it depends on how we pond. if we behave like this is totally fine for some leader to do then we're going to encourage proliferation. if we are so lucky to survive this current crisis we will see it again and again. there's also a massive reaction against it. even in the u.n. assembly, we saw countries with nuclear weapons condemn russia for making these threats. allowing nuclear weapons to have this power we leave the power with individuals like putin, and who is going to do this next time? >> you are pushing the treaty. and is it a fantasy to talk about total nuclear disarmament?

>> i am convinced we will see nuclear disarmament. are we going to do it before or after we see nuclear weapons used again. are we comfortable allowing people like putin, like xi, like trump, we super worried about trump using nuclear weapons in his last days. we are options, the treaty for the prohibition of nuclear weapons bans this kind of behavior, and that's really the future. we can choose to do it now or after nuclear weapons are used, and i know which one i would prefer. >> i'm glad you reminded our viewers. donald trump was a man who once had nuclear weapons and till talks about threatening to use them. appreciate all the work that you

do. thank you so much for your time tonight. >> thank you. next, kyiv is a city on edge, bracing for russian aall the. we show you what it's like for the civilians who remain there in their own words. the world remains in awe of ukraine's determination to fight russia, on display in lviv where opera singers gathered to sing ukraine's national anthem, listen. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ things about life is that

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while millions have fled ukraine, there are still many who have saved. 34-year-old larissa is one of those people, staying behind in kyiv to take care of her parents. she's been leaving nbc news a voice mail every day. the daily check-ins, painting a vivid picture of how they are surviving.

>> her harrowing account of living inside of a war zone. but she's determined not to leave kyiv, saying she will stick out the war. thank you for watching. we'll be right back here next sunday at 8:00 p.m. eastern. catch me monday through thursday on msnbc streaming channel peacock. my friend picks up our coverage of this horrific war after a short break. don't go anywhere. don't go anywhere. [limu emu squawks] woo! new personal record, limu! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪a little bit of chicken fried♪

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♪ ♪ good evening, everyone. i'm ayman mohyeldin. you're watching msnbc's continuing coverage of the war in ukraine. breaking news tonight, ukraine border guard services say negotiations will resume again between russia and ukraine. the talks set for just a few hours from now. they're expected to start at 4:30 a.m. eastern time. breaking tonight from nbc news, the u.s. government has reason to believe that russia asked china for military equipment and other support. this, according to three u.s. officials. the officials declined to elaborate whether china agreed to the requt