i think a lot of people have been calling it for a long time, saying it is overdue to allow more afghanistan refugees, to allow that status to be here longer. i think given the crisis in europe, i think we will see it play out in that situation. >> those images heartbreaking. thank you for being here. thanks to all of you for getting up "way too early" with us on this thursday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. it is not enough to be the leader of the nation. it takes to be the leader of the world. being the leader of the world means to be the leader of peace. peace in your country doesn't depend any more only on you and your people. it depends on those next to you, on those who are strong.

strong doesn't mean big. strong is brave and ready to fight for the life of his citizens and citizens of the world. president biden, you are the leader of the nation, of your great nation. i wish to be the leader of the world. being the leader of the world means to be the leader of peace. ♪♪ ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy's moving address to congress yesterday morning, pleading for more help, more weapons and more sanctions against russia. this morning we will have reaction from lawmakers and break down how president biden is answering that call. ukraine's president took a much tougher tone when he addressed the german parliament earlier this morning, accusing berlin of

responding too late and not doing enough. he asked, where is your leadership and invoked ronald reagan, urging the german chancellor to, quote, tear down this wall. we'll have more from that overnight address. plus, president biden calls vladimir putin a war criminal as ukraine accuses russia of bombing a theater where hundreds of civilians were seeking shelter. we are live on the ground as the russian invasion of ukraine enters week four. good morning. welcome to "morning joe." it is thursday, march 17th. we begin with the latest russian attack against civilians in ukraine. russian forces continue to batter the besieged city of mariupol. ukrainian officials say a russian airstrike hit mariupol and in a drama theater yesterday where hundreds of people were sheltering to protect themselves from the constant bombing. the number of casualties

innocent immediately clear, but officials say many are believed to be buried in the rubble. nbc news has not been able to independently verify the attack. according to images though released by the u.s. government linked to the technology firm maxar, the world "children" was spelled out in russian on two sides of the theater before it was bombed. now, russia is denying it carried out the attack. mariupol has suffered the most intense bombardment in recent days where hundreds of thousands of civilians are trapped without food, without electricity and without water. two a.p. journalists who are the only international media in the battered city report, quote, water is sparse and residents melt snow to be able to drink. >> so, mika, just to follow up on this tragedy at the mariupol theater that we've been following over the past day,

there is a "daily beast" headline from 30 minutes ago. it says, miraculous survivors made it into destroyed mariupol theater's bomb shelter before the russian strike hit. spokesperson for president zem zelle, this according to the "daily beast" and this just released, the bomb shelter in the mariupol drama theater has survived the brutal russian missile. so at least a majority stayed alive after bombing. >> that's incredible. >> people are getting out from the rubble. this just breaking from "the daily beast." it is something obviously we've been hearing about for the past almost 24 hours, keeping -- holding our breaths, our prayers for those people that were in there. but, mika, just the added

information that children was written on the sides of that theater and they chose to deliberately strike where they knew young children, older grandparents and residents -- >> it is like they were marking it as a target. >> they deliberately hit it there. i must say this is one of the reasons you actually have ukrainians, who decided from the very beginning they were never going to back down. we were talking over the past several days about how the ukrainians have something to fight for. they have their land to fight for, they have their freedom to fight for, they have the values of the west to fight for, the things that they want to be. the russians, most russian troops didn't even know why they were going into the country, and you saw just a really amazing "new york times" article yesterday, reporting that shows just how low russian morale has dropped. >> let's get to that.

russia is resorting to that kind of indiscriminate violence against ukrainian civilians seemingly because the fighting is having a devastating toll on its own troops. new reporting from "the new york times" details how the increasing number of russian troop deaths is severely impacting morale. the pentagon estimates 7,000 russian troops have been killed in the three-week war so far, which is greater than the number of american troops killed over 20 years in iraq and afghanistan combined. between 14,000 and 21,000 russian troops have been injured. american officials tell "the times" those staggering numbers have implications on combat effectiveness. >> let me just say while you are looking at those numbers, that's the conservative side of the estimate. that's a very conservative side of the estimate according to officials that i've spoken with. >> and, quote, the pentagon officials say a 10% casualty

rate, including dead and wounded, for a single unit renders it unable to carry out combat-related tasks. the report continues, quote, pentagon officials say that a high and rising number of war dead can destroy the will to continue fighting. the result, they say, has shown up in intelligence reports that senior officials in the biden administration read every day. one recent report focused on low morale among russian troops and described soldiers just parking their vehicles and walking off into the woods. western officials tell "the times" around 20 russian generals have been pushed closer to the front lines in an effort to boost morale. three of them are confirmed dead, and yesterday ukrainian official said their forces killed a fourth. >> let's bring in one of the reporters of that story, senior writer at "the new york times," eric schmidt. eric, there are so many things in here that really stood out.

first of all, let's put this in context for our viewers. over the past 20 days more russians have died in this war, if you believe the conservative estimates, than died over 20 years in iraq and afghanistan. that was one number that stood out. another that stood out that somehow seemed even more striking, you wrote in the article that over 20 days more people died in ukraine than marines died in iwo jima over like 35, 38 days. the tolls, just another way to put it, these tolls are absolutely staggering, aren't they? >> they are stunning, joe. this just goes to the points you were making in your early report, just how ill-prepared the russians were going into this fight. how they thought they were going to be able to roll into ukraine with little resistance, take over the capital of kyiv in a

couple of days, the rest of the country in a week or so, and they've met fierce resistance on the ground from ukrainians. as you pointed out, many of these are conscript troops who are not briefed on what was going to be happening to them when they got in. they've -- in many reports how they've been running out of fuel, running out of food on the ground. it is not just the soldiers, the everyday soldiers on the ground, but as you said this extends up through the senior ranks of the officers on the grounds. you pointed out as many as four russian generals killed in just these three weeks, which is an amazing number. it is very rare you would ever see an american senior officer like that killed in battle. i think all of these things add up again to underscore some of the real difficulties the russians are having in these initial weeks of the invasion. >> so, eric, one thing i learned from the article that i found to be fascinating, and i would like you to get into it a little bit more for people watching, you talked about how pentagon

officials you spoke with said once you hit a 10% casualty rate your effectiveness in carrying out combat tasks suddenly just drop off, drop off a cliff. can you get into that a little bit more? because the russians, if you look at these numbers even on the conservative side and then multiply out what that means for those injured on the battle field, they're bumping up against that 10%. >> that's right. so we're looking at units, these are tank units, these are armored columns that are going in. if you have a small unit, say just a tank unit and one or two people get injured or killed in that unit, that tank is no longer able to be an effective weapon on the battlefield. if you multiply that out at the small unit level, that can have a devastating effect. you work your way up and suddenly some of the larger units aren't able to pull together some of the smaller units and they can't fight effectively over a larger space, and that's what we're seeing in this campaign right now. while the russians have made

some progress in the south, they remain stalled in the northern pushes down into the major cities of ukraine including the capital of kyiv. so this combat effectiveness is something pentagon officials are watching very closely as we enter this critical phase of the next week to ten days. >> radio free europe reports that according to local residents, russian soldiers killed in battle in ukraine are filling up morgues in belarus. the number of bodies was unbelievably large. people at a city were simply shocked by the number of bodies put on a train, local residents say. local residents say morgues in other cities are full as well. again, this must be impacting not just the morale of the russian troops overall, joe, but vladimir putin did not expect, not in the least, that he would be at this point.

>> well, i don't think -- yeah, he didn't. you have started to see some things going on in russia that you would expect in an authoritarian state. suddenly people running security services are being arrested, putin is striking out. >> in a speech yesterday that was quite something. >> striking out at disloyal russians. i'm curious, eric, based on your talks, your reporting with military officials and reporting for this story, i guess the question that i have or most anybody has is how does a force this besieged, how do they encircle kyiv? how do they even go into kyiv, as i believe it was noted in your story, they haven't even gotten to the tough part of the fighting yet. and when they go into cities, they're just -- a general said, you know, we considered

ten-to-one ratio necessary for going into urban combat. it just doesn't seem looking at your reporting, it doesn't seem like they have the numbers to encircle kyiv and then go in and fight a battle to take that city over. >> certainly not with the numbers that we've seen so far, joe, in these terms of casualty figures. i think what we may be seeing instead is what we've seen in some of the other cities, including the ones you mentioned in your earlier report, which is that the russians do the best they can, surround it as best they can and then just chart shelling indiscriminately, using long-range missiles and just to pummel the citizens of the city into submission. at least that's the strategy right now vladimir putin appears to be pursuing. he appears to be doubling down, and i think that's what really scary, the lack of any concern over the civilian deaths that are involved in this. so whether or not they actually

go into the city, which would be even a bloodier battle, i think we are in for some very grim days ahead as they continue to pound these cities. >> let me ask you, eric, just because of the fog of war, i have been skeptical early on that show the ukrainians doing extremely well because of the fog of war and often because we seek out stories that, of course, we want to believe. in this case though, the 7,000 seems to be a pretty hardest mat. if you could explain to our viewers how the pentagon came up with that? you got into it in the story. talk about how they're making their estimate so they're not listening to the ukrainians who are probably exaggerating on one side and the russians who are understating it on the other. >> it is a combination of factors, as you mentioned. it is looking at what is available on social media, what is available on the official, both ukrainian and russian reports that are coming out of

their governments, but then the military is also looking at the damage to individual, say, russian tanks. they know how many russian soldiers are in a tank or in a personnel carrier. if they can pressure that number they can extrapolate. to be sure, these numbers are inexact. casualty figures are always kind of squishy. while the pentagon are looking at the numbers and shocked by what they see, they're also cautious and continue to remind that the russian military over time has proved to be quite resilient as well. if you look at syria, certainly if you go back to the battles of world war ii and the tremendous losses the russian military and the russian public took, so they're not counting the russians out at all in this fight because they do have superior fire power. but the longer it goes on the longer you can see some benefits for the ukrainians. as we saw yesterday with president zelenskyy's appeal, as more weapons keep pouring in

they will be able to keep the fight going on. >> wow. eric schmidt "the new york times," thank you for your reporting along with your colleagues on this incredible story. russia's vladimir putin defended his brutal actions in ukraine, and despite major military setbacks claimed the war is, quote, developing successfully and according to plan. in new remarks yesterday putin repeatedly debunked claims that the u.s. is funding biolabs in ukraine and that ukraine plans to use pathogens on russian citizens. these are claims he repeated. he also called for the, quote, self-purification of pro-russian west earns calling them traitors. he accused russians living abroad as ready to sell their own mother and went after russian oligarchs living in the west saying, quote, those who have a villa in miami or french

riviera who cannot do without oysters, another sign of how he has become unhinged. he reportedly has two spy chiefs under house arrest because they underestimated ukraine's resistance ahead of the -- >> oh, is that how it worked? >> i thought it was something. it must be. >> it also was their fault, the guy you were shouting down when he was -- >> definitely not him, way across the table. >> no, no. >> let's bring in u.s. special correspondent for the bbc news katty kay. senior fellow at the atlantic council ian brinski joins us, and jonathan lemire and michael beschloss. >> as we look at our guest here, i think it is fair to say just for everyone,ent for ian brzezinski. >> definitely not ian. he will take a six-pack of

budweiser. >> give him a cheeseburger and a pbr. >> budweiser. >> michael, i want to go to you because of a story eric schmidt gave us earlier that he was talking about in the times. this is extraordinary. >> yep. >> this is actually in an era of historic history-bending moments. this is one we are going to remember for quite sometime. we have been talking about 1989, but i go back to 1980 and solidarity. >> right. >> this is about as shocking of a development as anything since lake walensa and his fellow compatriots protested against the former soviet union and somehow survived it. in this case these are extraordinary developments, russian soldiers abandoning tanks, walking into the woods. ukrainians reporting yesterday they have begun a

counteroffensive against the russians. it is not hard to read behind the lines and see why vladimir putin is sounding unspooled. things seem to be going from bad to worse for russia. >> i think that's exactly right. 1980 was probably the high-water mark of the soviet empire and you had president carter and a brilliant national security advisor named dr. brzezinski, who said -- can stop the tide. there was work done with the pols and with lake walensa and the pope and stopped the soviet tide from getting worse. in a way there's a direct line, as you say, between that and 1989 when george h.w. bush in his inaugural said, "the day of the dictator is over." just a couple of weeks, i was remembering that, joe and mika, in fact that bush had said that, almost bitterly here we are in the day of putin attacking

ukraine, and just a few weeks later because of the valiant performance of the ukrainians, led by a leader like our early founders in the revolution, in love with liberty, hates oppressive, enormously brave, we are seeing a situation where the zeitgeist has changed. i think both in the world, and maybe in the united states, too, the day of the dictator really is over. >> it does seem that way. ian brzezinski, i'm going to ask you a question that our intel community is asking themselves because vladimir putin obviously surprised by what is happening in ukraine, but he's not alone. i have heard one military strategist, one intel expert after another all being surprised by the ineffectiveness of the russian military. they expected far more. what is making the difference right now in this battle in ukraine? >> well, joe, the clear difference is the courage of the ukrainian armed forces, the territorial forces, the civilian

fighters, the leadership of zelenskyy. it has been powerful. it has been inspirational, it has been one of the biggest surprises. the second big surprise, of course, is the poor performance of the russians, their lack of morale, their poor logistical planning, their inability to beat a much smaller force. i have to say despite how inspired we are by the effectiveness of the ukrainians and the high casualties they're imposing upon the russians i think we should be careful not to assume ukraine is on the cusp of victory. the russians are going to continue to drive forward. putin is relentless. he has another 700,000 he is willing to throw against ukraine regardless of the cost to his forces, who continue to grind away, level ukrainian cities, cleanse them of ukrainians, push them west out of the country. we have to operate on the assumption it is going to get worse and go on for a long time unless there's a more decisive

posture by the west to support the ukrainians. >> yes, and it does seem to be a tipping point right now because, katty kay, yesterday we saw president zelenskyy give a positive statement to the united states, congress. he was a little rougher when he spoke to the germans earlier today, but vladimir putin also, if you look at russian leadership yesterday, we got conflicting signals. early in the day the foreign minister, sergey lavrov, sounded optimistic about the possibility of bringing this conflict to a negotiated end, and then vladimir putin had an unhinged press conference. it does seem that at least the people that putin is sending to the negotiating table would like to find a way out of this military disaster. i'm not so sure with vladimir putin. how is that being read in the west and across europe?

>> yeah, you're right, joe. the word is unhinged, the rant. i listened to most of it and read the transcript of it and turning on his own people. there's a fifth column. he turned on the oligarchs, all of those people who like foi gras in the south. but he said critically russia will never bow to the west. he put it very much in the context of russia versus the west. it wasn't so much about ukraine, it was about the west wanting to destroy russian society and that's dangerous territory. because if he tells himself that story and if he tells the russian people that story, he never has an interest in backing down in this fight because he makes it about more than ukraine. i am skeptical of what we're hearing out of -- there was a "financial times" reporting about the peace talks making progress but there are still sticking points. the future of donbas, any legally binding guarantees of other countries for the security of ukraine. yesterday i had a conversation with a senior ukrainian military

official from the army who said, look, we gave up our nuclear weapons in the early 1990s and we got assurances back then that we would be protected as a sovereign country and those assurances haven't given us anything today. so they're pretty skeptical about the language around that. then i think there's some skepticism about whether putin is just using this moment of negotiations as a feint, as a time to resupply his troops, to regroup in ukraine, all the while spinning out the talking but actually not intending to negotiate at all. that seems to be what cia director bill burns was telling congress last week. so i think on those negotiations there's quite a lot of skepticism. listening to putin yesterday, he didn't sound like somebody who is willing to negotiate. >> so here is what president zelenskyy told the german parliament this morning, accusing them of caring more about their economy than securing peace in europe.

>> translator: we asked you about preventive sanctions. we urged europe to many countries, we urged you. such sanctions that if enemy felt that you are a force but you delayed. we understood that you wanted to support your economy, economy, economy. and so where is your leadership? where is your force? why is the country beyond the atlantic closer to us than you? there's a wall. the former u.s. president ronald reagan said this in berlin, break down this wall, and i want to say to you, chancellor

schultz, break down this wall. give germany leadership. >> wow. >> jonathan lemire, a little bit less aggressive with president biden in the speech to lawmakers yesterday morning. tell us how biden responded in kind, what options did he put on the table? he offered a lot. also, to follow up in the speech to our members of congress, to the united states, he is said to be a leader of peace, you know, to be the leader of the world, you're the leader of peace. i think it is clear that peace is accomplished in many ways, so what are some of the other options the united states is pursuing along with the aid president biden announced yesterday? >> yeah, a number of things here, mika. yes, tougher to berlin. he continues when he makes appeals to local countries he dots in reference to the berlin

wall. they shut down nord stream 2 but they've not gone as far as the u.s. they've not stopped buying imports of russian gasoline and other fuel. in terms to washington yesterday, it was less tough and grateful. he gave the biden administration some options. he sort of acknowledged a no-fly zone remained a nonstarter. instead he said, give us equipment to maintain our own skies if a no-fly zone is too tough. he repeated the call for the jets as well, which the u.s. is not willing to send right now, but president biden unveiled a robust slate of equipment he will be sending to ukraine in coming days, an additional $800 million worth of defense spending, the javelins, the stinger missiles and importantly some of the switchblade drones we talked about yesterday that have proven so effectively against russian vehicles, a lot more of them will be heading as well. the biden team, they weren't

surprised by zelenskyy's ask. there's an open channel of communication between kyiv and washington. they knew this was coming. they were able to prepare to send this package, which is largely what the europeans wanted here. they are -- officials i have talked to, to echo what we're just saying, skeptical also of the russian overtures for peace, believing it is a stalling tactic to replenish the forces that are they. they are still bombarding from a distance but getting more equipment for a push forward. >> we will go to break but keep everybody with us. michael beschloss, i don't feel comfortable going to the break without first addressing what the president said, president zelenskyy said to the germans. because it is important to note obviously with their history it would have been impossible a month ago even for them to move, to go beyond 2% of their gdp for

military spending. they've agreed to do that. have they been too dependent on russian oil? yes, they've been too dependent on russian oil and something they recognize and something they've said they're going to move away from. but make no mistake of it, in the coming years germany with a stronger military, most likely than even the russians, is going -- they're going to continue to be one of our most important allies, and they've made a dramatic shift over the past three-and-a-half, four weeks we should all recognize. >> that's for sure. and germany, post-world war ii germany is a great triumph of american democracy, working with at least some of our allies. you know, joe, you wrote a great book about truman and stalin in the late 1940s and part of the story was how americans were a force in helping germany to become a democracy. at the time dwight eisenhower as

a general said, the test of whether our aims in world war ii in europe had succeeded will be 50 years from now, he said in 1945. is germany a democracy then? if it is, then we have finally prevailed in winning world war ii. we have. the amazing thing is that we would all now feel not only comfortable but eager for getting the german's militarily involved. it shows how confident we are in german democracy, and some people thought that zelenskyy was almost borderline rude in given the fact that the germans had gone further than they had before but that's what his role is. winston churchill, as you all know, was not only borderline rude, he was sometimes totally rude in 1941, pushing other western democracies to give military help to britain saying on radio, give us the tools and we will finish the job. >> right, right. listen, everybody stay right

where you are. we want to continue this conversation as we bring in more information from overnight. still ahead on "morning joe," republican senator ben sasse said yet, "if it shoots we should sent it to ukraine." he will be our guest this morning. also ahead, a closer look at the lethal aid that washington is already sending overseas. and british lawmakers are considering an ultimatum for the top-ranked tennis player if he wants to play in wimbledon. >> come on. come on. >> you are watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. >> let's talk about that. hey lily, i need a new wireless plan for my business, but all my employees need something different. oh, we can help with that. okay, imagine this. your mover, rob, he's on the scene and needs a plan with a mobile hotspot. we cut to downtown, your sales rep

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president biden has been very clear he is worried about provocations that could trigger world war iii.

do you understand his concern there and do you agree that it wouldn't take much to end up in world war iii? >> translator: well, nobody knows whether it may have already started and what is the possibility of this war if ukraine will fall, in case ukraine will fall. it is very hard to say and we've seen this 80 years ago when the second world war had started and there were similar tragedies in history. nobody would be able to predict when the full-scale war would start and how it will end and how putin ends to that. in any case, ends up in millions of people die and millions of

buildings destroyed, now we have different technologies, nuclear weapons. in this case we have the whole civilization at stake. >> president zelenskyy speaking with nbc's lester holt yesterday through a government-provided interpreters. >> i want to get back to you. in the early '90s you spend time in ukraine and i find your insights fascinating. you can just take us back to the '90s. even in the '90s the russians were not comfortable with ukraine being an independent nation. explain what you saw when you were there. >> thanks, joe. you know, in march 30 years ago this month i found myself in germany at a nato conference. we got snowed in, huge snowstorm that blocked the roads and i was stuck in a bar literally with

three others, another american and russians. this was two to three months after the collapse of the ussr and it was a remarkable conversation. i had the temerity to ask him how did he feel after witnessing, experiencing the collapse of the ussr, the country that defined his life. he expressed his frustration with that, but i'll never forget, he looked me in the eye and said, mark my words, ukraine will come back to moscow. it was clear he didn't care it was going to be voluntarily or by force. that has haunted me ever since. two years later -- excuse me, a year later i started as a volunteer in ukraine in '93 and '94 and saw first hand how active russia was in trying to undermine ukrainian independence back then, using military presence in crimea, using subterfuge, contributing to

corruption, using economic and military pressure to keep ukraine from veering towards the west. so this is not a new experience that ukraine is experiencing today. it is more intense because there's an invasion, but ukraine's reform process has always been hampered by an active effort by the russians to undercut ukrainian independence. so when i look at the progress ukraine has made in political and economic reform, it is in some ways much more remarkable than what has occurred in the rest of central europe that was protected by being right on the border with countries like germany and italy and the west, that benefited from a warm embrace of their aspirations for nato and eu membership. ukraine never got that from the west. it has had a much more difficult time to make the tremendous progress it has on reform and we should not forget that. >> and are you surprised, seeing the resolve of the european people today given the experience of living and working

among them yourself 20 years ago? is this like, whoa, i never saw that coming, or does it make a lot of sense to you? >> the answer is yes and no. i am not surprised by the commitment and determination of the european people. i am not surprised how steadfast they've been in their efforts to drive forward with reforms and their commitment to becoming part of the european and transplant of community of nations. they are peaceful people. they are a political tolerant society and that's where the surprise comes. i'm surprised by the fierceness of their resistance, the fierceness of their fighting spirit to defend their homeland. so i'm not surprised and i am surprised. i'm not surprised by their determination to go to the west in reform. i am inspired and impressed by the tenacity of their physical defense of their territory. >> so, katty kay -- >> wow. >> -- listening to ian and also just looking back over the past 30 years, it is obvious, and also reading and hearing

vladimir putin's words, it is obvious that russians, especially older russians, see ukraine as an integral part of greater russia. they see kyiv, odesa as capitals during czarist history, and it does seem when people start talking about putin going after ukraine and then putin going after other parts of central europe, it may miss the bigger point that you see ukraine jutting in to russia. this is just, as ian said, going back to months after the soviet union fell. this is obviously deeply personal, ukraine's independence, deeply personal to so many russians that lived during the cold war. >> yes, and you have, you know, members of the russian oligarch group at the moment who still have parents who are living in ukraine, the ties are enormous. we have spoken about those.

i guess that has led some people who watch putin far more closely than i do to say, look, this really is about ukraine and his sense of legacy, that he needed to restore the boundaries as he thought they should be, to get ukraine back into the russian fold, and it is more about that and less about nato and nato expansion. nato expansion was more of a red herring for him. when you read the long datribe that he wrote last summer it is not about nato. it could be good news in that he is prepared to stop at ukraine and he wouldn't go after estonia and he is not intending to breach nato's borders. i guess the question is how much has this war changed that. how much is he now backed so badly into a corner, how afraid is he of looking like a loser, of having lost, you know,

whatever happens in ukraine now because he has been so humiliated by the performance of his military that he may just lash out at other nato countries even if it was initially about a sense of ukrainian nationalism and russian nationalism. >> u.s. officials in recent days, you know, don't believe that is likely yet seeing how bogged russia has been in ukraine, but to katty's point they can't eliminate the idea that putin would lash out in an irrational attack, though badly out numbered russia would be to nato. michael beschloss, one of the parallels, i want to get your perspective on this, i have seen the people wonder about this particular moment. is this 1939 or is this 1989? which one is the better historical parallel in your estimation? >> great question, john. you know, a couple of weeks ago i would have said it is 1939, the world is crashing in a way that we couldn't have expected for over 80 years. risk of world war iii, a

powerful country trying to conquer its less powerful neighbor and i was very depressed, as i think was a very rational response to what we were seeing. but because of the bravery of the europeans, because of the united opposition of virtually every country in the free world of what we have seen, and also even the performance by putin yesterday was completely awful. you know, he worshipped stalin. that was a stalin performance. you heard words like scum and self-purification, things we haven't heard since stalin died in 1953, but stalin is dead. the whole point is that here we are in 2022, and if putin, just as you and katty were saying, if he would like ukraine to be a part of russia he should have a genuine, full, free and fair referendum in ukraine. and if it is full, free and fair, they vote to join russia,

fine. on december 2, 1991, the ukrainians had exactly such a referendum. they voted overwhelmingly to separate themselves from the soviet union, and that led 23 days later to the death of the soviet union and soviet communism. >> all right. michael beschloss and ian brzezinski, thank you both very much for getting up pretty early this morning. see you both again soon. coming up, as expected the fed is raising interest rates, the first of several months that could come this year. we will explain what that will mean for most americans next on "morning joe." . also ahead, congress woman elissa slotkin, a former analyst for the cia, joins us. she has introduced two bills related to vladimir putin and the war in ukraine. our coverage continues in just a moment.

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♪♪ 49 past the hour. a live look at the white house. the sun's going to come up at some point in washington, as you get ready for work. the federal reserve raised key interest rates by a quarter percentage point to help fight high inflation. it is the first hike since december of 2018 and six more are expected this year. joining us now, former treasury official and "morning joe" economic analyst, steve rattner. >> steve, thank you so much for being with us. man, the economy is on fire. it really is. it is just on fire in so many areas. the fed chair trying to slow it down a bit. did he make the right move yesterday? should he have gone further? >> he probably made the right

move yesterday. the economy is on fire, joe, in every respect including inflation, which is really what is dominating the fed's thinking at the moment. i think up until the ukrainian invasion there was a reasonable chance the fed would have increased interest rates by more, by potentially 50 basis points to send a stronger signal to the market it was determined to fight inflation, but wars are not good for economies in terms of growth and things. you get supply line problems, you get disruption and so on. so the fed chose a more cautious path of 25 basis points, one quarter of a point this time, but they signalled there will be six more rate increases over the next little bit less than two years, which would bring the fed fund rate to the highest level it has been since before the pandemic. you can see in the chart at the lower right corner the move yesterday was only a tiny move inside the red circle. when you look at the turquoise

line that's what the fed has said it seems likely to do between now and the end of next year, putting interest rates at the highest level they've been since before the great financial crisis. >> yeah. we are obviously all following what is going on, whether the fed is threading the needle correctly, and some concerns from somebody that you have agreed with in the past, larry somers. he is talking about stagflation in the coming months. what are your thoughts about that? >> there's a substantial risk of that. it is very hard to reduce inflation without reducing economic growth. you can see that pretty clear in the fed's own projections for what it thinks is going to happen in the economy on the next chart that we have, which compares the forecast that they made back in december to where they are today. so you can see the fed, which was insisting inflation was going to be transitory and was going to kind of disappear, is

now acknowledging it is a more serious problems. the turquoise bar is what they think will be inflation at the end of next year, 4.3 percent. as recently as december, just three months ago, they were projecting 2.6%. the consequence of that is they're now projecting substantially higher interest rates at the end of this year as well as next year, up 1.9% versus less than a percent, what they thought before. then have then therefore taken down their expectation for gdp, slowing the economy as you said from 4% to 2.8%. but they've kept the unemployment rate constant at 3.5% which has surprised many people because it is hard to slow the economy without raising the unemployment rate. the last question we are looking at on the chart now is how the expectations on the part of the fed line up with the expectations of the public. the public, which is the blue

line, believes there will be significantly more inflation than the fed, up about 5.4% by end of next year whereas the fed and private forecasters are still a good bit lower. i should note they use slightly different levels of inflation but it is essentially correct. this has lead to 50 percent of americans saying inflation in the economy is their biggest concern. it is not just an economic issue but a political issue that will have major impact on the elections this fall. >> steve, let me ask for our friends watching that want to know when gas prices are going to come down, obviously oil has dropped precipitously over the past week or two. we are now under $100 a barrel. when do we start seeing that at the pump? >> assuming oil prices stay at the lower levels, and they're up a bit this morning, you should see it at the pump over the next several weeks. i would say that oil is very volatile at the moment and it is hard to predict when and if it

will stay at lower levels. it is important to note that the world was short of oil even before the invasion. supply has been -- demand has been very strong as people get back to driving and going about their business. so it is unlikely you will see oil prices go back to where they were a year ago. they certainly should come down to where they are today, if oil prices in the market stay where they are. remember, with oil prices being as low as they are in the world market today suggests that russian crude is getting into the world market because it is essential to maintaining price stability in the world market. how long that goes on for and what the west chooses to do with russian oil, we have banned it. nobody else has banned it yet. we will have to see what else happens with russian oil and the impact it has on prices going forward. >> steve rattner, thank you very much as always. we appreciate it. still ahead, putin's war in

ukraine is having an impact that stretches beyond earth. how nasa is responding to russian aggression and threats of crashing the international space station. plus, with the invasion of ukraine russian president vladimir putin thought he sensed an opportunity to take advantage of a disunited west. we will talk about how putin accidentally revitalized the west's liberal order. that's next on "morning joe." . >> we warned him. e warned him this is the new world of work. each day looks different than the last. but whatever work becomes, the world works with servicenow. (music throughout)

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♪♪ . >> reporter: are you ready to call him a war criminal? >> i think he is a war criminal. >> top of the hour. this is president biden calling vladimir putin a war criminal yesterday for the first time publicly, and there is breaking news from ukraine after officials there accused russia of bombing a theater with

hundreds of civilians inside. this happened in the besieged city of mariupol where half of the city is out of power and water is sub zero temperatures. mariupol's member of parliament told nbc news moments ago the bomb shelter under the theater withstood the attack. >> that's fantastic. >> and people are being evacuated right now. after president zelenskyy's address to congress yesterday, president biden announced almost a billion dollars in additional aid, and nato also pledged more help. this morning the ukrainian president addressed the german parliament. he thanked lawmakers for their assistance but said much of it was too late and not enough. without saying america by name, zelenskyy asked the germans, quote, why is the country beyond the atlantic closer to us than

you? he does not mince words at this moment in history. welcome back to "morning joe." it is thursday, march 17th. jonathan lemire and katty kay are still with us. >> jonathan, much to get to here. first of all, i want to say, and, katty, i'm going to go to you first on germany and then i want to go to president biden's declaration of vladimir putin being a war criminal. first, katty, germany obviously has dealt with their history throughout the 20th century, not just world war ii and the horrors of the holocaust but also world war i. they have been a pacifist nation, for good reason. what they've done over the past three, three-and-a-half weeks has been nothing short of extraordinary. i think it is the most significant security development in europe since 1989. so i don't know if zelenskyy's address may have stung a bit. i think everybody understands

he's besieged and he wants more help, but just help us on this side of the atlantic understand better what germans have been going through over the past 50, 60, 70 years in trying to move beyond the horrors committed during world war ii and how what has happened over the past three-and-a-half weeks, how extraordinary that really is. >> look, i understand why zelenskyy is doing this. maybe he is super tired and stressed and maybe he was brisker than he might have himself want to be and apparently it was met with a stunned silence and they swiftly moved on to other business and kind of didn't want to dwell on it. but you are right that germany has been through a huge amount of soul searching, and the rest of europe, joe, by the way would never have wanted to see the kind of militarization that germany is taking on. my parents would have been horrified at the thought in the 1960s and '70s of germany

spending 2% of their gdp on defense. they wanted a demilitarized germany. everyone in europe after what germany had been through did not want germany ever to be a military power again. it took a long time, right up until this morning really for the rest of the west to accept that germany had a role to play in defense of security that was actually a military role. what they've gone through in the last three weeks has been a turnaround that i don't think anyone saw come. i don't think vladimir putin saw it coming and i don't think the rest of the west saw it coming, and the reaction from the west, the reaction from france, which is the kind of major player in this when it comes to german relations, has been broadly positive. that also is a real sign of how much germany has changed and how much the situation has forced

europe to think, okay, we were worried about germany once, but now clearly they're concerned about russia and we need germany to be part of the fight and germany military to be part of the fight. you are seeing a huge shift, and i didn't think in my lifetime i would see that and germany has moved fast. >> commentator conan o'brien tweeted, i have lived long enough in my life i see people excited germany is rearming. katty, i am struck by this. i am taken back to 1989 when george h.w. bush over the objections, the strong objections of france, over the objections of much of europe, fought hard to unify germany. mika and i were at an event i think in 2009 with helmet cole and george h.w. bush, and it was a huge celebration. it was germans thanking

president bush for working hard to have them unified because a lot of europe didn't even want east and west germany unified. >> yes. i was in berlin the year before the wall came down and the year after the wall came down, and there was a lot of trepidation, particularly in france but some in britain too about the idea of germany reunifying. it all comes after the second world war. there was an advantage. if you thought you wanted to contain germany and german aggression and german militarism having it split in two was they. when it reunified, it becomes this hegemony and people were nervous that they would once again become a militaristic country. they didn't want germany involved when the rest of the

world was involved around the world, they were happy with germany not to be sending its soldiers and military because they didn't want it. a bit like japan, we want japan contained and we put it in their constitution and we wanted germany contained, and that's changed now. >> and that's all just for context over what has happened in the past three-and-a-half weeks, nothing short of remarkable. militarily it has turned the world into a tri polar war with germany and a strengthened europe along with the united states and china and perhaps a bit of russia in there. jonathan lemire, the president, the administration has been exceedingly careful not to call vladimir putin a war criminal because, of course, there are consequences to that. certainly it cuts off a lot of opportunities in negotiating of peace. yesterday the president caught on an iphone saying that vladimir putin was a war

criminal. did the white house walk that back yesterday? did they say, oh, no, no, he had said that but we understand this is a legal question more than a political question? >> they did not walk it back, joe, but they did note that there is a difference between what the president said and the official process. let me explain what happened there. i was in the room yesterday, the east room of the white house. the president, this was later in the day after his speech about zelenskyy, it was after he announced the arms. this was an unrelated event many hours later. as i was leaving he walked by those of us in the press pool and a shouted question. he approached close enough a reporter shouted a question as to whether he thought putin was a war criminal. actually in that moment he answered no. he kept walking and he shook hands with somebody else and he came back and it was clear he was not sure he heard the question right. he asked it to be repeated. the question was repeated. sir, do you believe, from the reporter, that putin was a war

criminal, and this time he answered yes, that he did think vladimir putin was a war criminal, did not elaborate further. then he left. then a short time later we had the daily press briefing with secretary jen psaki. she, of course, was asked a number of questions about this. she said that the president spoke from the heart. that he had been moved by the images he had seen from ukraine, perhaps even the video that zelenskyy showed and he was reacting in that way. she was careful to note that the designate them a war criminal is an official process, and it has not happened. the president believes this but the u.s. has not declared him a war criminal. we heard from dmitry peskov condemning the president for saying that and that it would

escalate the tensions between the two countries. >> they say everything escalates the situation. i'm sure, jonathan, you agree with the kremlin and letting shwarberg go is an escalation of tensions on the ground. there's a question whether u.s. officials should be saying that or not, and people at home may be wondering why. because if vladimir putin believes his future is in a cage in the hague by milosevic he will have not desire to negotiate peace, which has to be the goal of ukrainians and, of course, everyone hoping and praying that the war ends soon. >> this is a point you may so well in your "washington post" column, that is that words can be used. they do apply. but using them on the part of

anybody in congress or the senate, talking about things like regime change, this is not helpful at this time. there's a lot of different avenues of communication ago because there's got to be an off ramp and an off ramp has got to include some sort of face saving in some way or i'm not sure it is going to be possible. one thing we know about putin is his ego goes far beyond anything we can ever imagine. >> and for people who are looking at the war crimes that are being committed day in and day out, you have a couple of choices. you can either say we're going to fight this to the end and see the introduction of biological, chemical and possibly tactical nuclear weapons, or you can hope, hope and push for negotiated peace. >> yeah. >> with the russian military on its heels, with ukrainians launching counteroffenses. if those are successful, you may

see more of a willingness by russia to negotiate a peace. >> yeah. >> so i think -- it may not feel as good, but -- >> yeah, i think most people would find peace preferable where russia leaves ukraine and the rest of the world is around to help rebuild ukraine. as we mentioned president biden promised more military support to ukraine with an additional $800 million in aid. biden stopped short of supporting a no-fly zone or providing fighter jets, two things zelenskyy has repeatedly requested. here is a break breakdown of the military aid package including thousands of missiles that can be used against aircraft or tanks and at least 100 killer drones known as switch blades. last night cnbc's shep smith

explained some of this weaponry. >> the white house committing more weapons to ukraine including some of the very items on zelenskyy's wish list. you've heard the names but what do they do? we're going to break them down starting with the javelin. it is an american-made missile launcher, shoulder mounted. it locks on to target's thermal picture, meaning any kind of vehicle that emits heat. it is a tank killer because like a javelin that is thrown it can strike from above. it has a range of up to 2 1/2 miles. here it is in action during a training exercise. fully loaded it weighs about 50 pounds. military experts say it is easy to operate and highly effective. the ukrainian defense ministry posting a photo of a russian tank they say they destroyed with a javelin. it is so popular it has become a symbol of the resistance with its own patron saint, saint javelin. then there's the s-300, the

surface-to-air missile system president zelenskyy has been calling for. it is a priority because it can be used to take down russian jets and drones. it can hit a target more than 90 miles away and, get this, as high as 90,000 feet. here is video from a russian training exercise. this involves four components on separate vehicles. one that detects the jet. one that analyzes the data. another that tracks the target and, of course, the missile launcher. there's a challenge in getting these to ukraine. the system is made in russia. a few nato countries have them, these s-300s that are operational, bulgaria, grease and slovakia. there are reports that the u.s. is speaking to those countries about transferring the systems. nothing concrete we know of yet. but the u.s. will be giving ukraine american-made switchblade drones, about 100. they're kamikaze drones, little things that are 2 feet long and

six pounds each. here is a demo of the 300 model from a company that makes it. the drone launches from a tripod case you see. an operator controls it using gps and real-time video from a camera or they can program it to a specific location. either way it is electric and it is silent. hard to detect. experts say it is deadly and it is precise. but, again, kamikaze, one and done. the drone hits the target and that's it. not to understate their capabilities but we are talking 100 of these. they're likely to go very fast. the switchblade drone part of the broader package of arms headed to ukraine, military aid that's getting rare bipartisan support on capitol hill. >> let's bring in chief white house correspondent for "the new york times," peter baker. senior fellow and director of foreign and defense policy studies at the american enterprise institute, corey

shockey. and msnbc contributor mike barnicle. good to have you all on bore us. corey, your recent article in "the atlantic" is entitled "putin accidentally revitalizes the west's liberal order." you write in part, russia's invasion of ukraine has unleashed a chorus of despair, beyond the cost in ukrainian lives, the international order that the u.s. and its allies built after world war ii is, we are told, crumbling. the reverse is true. vladimir putin has attempted to crush ukraine's independence and westernness while also demonstrating nato's fecklessness and free country's unwillingness to shoulder economic burdens in defense of our values. he has acheaped the opposite of each endefg to destroy the liberal international order. he has been the architect of its

revitalization. you continue, bars are pouring out russian vodka. iconic architecture in cities all over the free world is lit up with the colors of the ukrainian flag to show solidarity. sports teams are refusing to play russia in international tournaments. this is what free societies converging on an idea looks like. and the idea is this, resist putin's evil. >> corey, thank you so much for being with us. thank you for writing this. i grow so tired. i grow so tired of people talking about the west's collapse, its imminent demise. possibly obviously haven't gotten the memo, they're still writing about that, but it is extraordinary what has happened with liberal democracy over the past 3 1/2 weeks. it has won in a route. all of those right wingers that were snuggling up to putin,

snuggling up to orban, you actually have orban who is condemning putin right now. and who is the best ally on the ground? poland. from american politics to european politics, it has been an extraordinarily good 3 1/2 weeks for rising good against evil. >> sometimes we are worry that people of the west won't shoulder burdens to protect and advance them, and we have been validated in the notion that the yearning for freedom is universal and deserves our support. it was touching yesterday to hear president biden say that america stands on the side of the forces for freedom. that's what is happening. >> so, peter baker,able you are

seeing a bipartisanship we haven't seen really since 9/11. it is so interesting. i read so many columns that said, oh, that 9/11 moment, it is not possible anymore. it has actually happened. you have a united republican and democratic party. in fact, this is so bar it is almost humorous watching republicans going on certain cable news networks trying to find a reason to be upset at president biden. trying to say, oh, yes, he has done well this way, but he needs to do more. well, of course people say he needs to do more. but, you know, it is just like rob portman yesterday. but they also said he also has a coalition he has to keep together. >> well, i think that's right. it is interesting. it is a little like 9/11 in the sense there's a unanimity among lawmakers in washington, republican and democrats, about what needs to be done. there is some squawking as you put it about how fast or how

tough the biden administration has been in implementing. broadly speaking, while they're still critical of president biden they're approaching it with the strategy of sort of the tucker carlson of the political right. it is interesting. these polls don't show a post-9/11 bounce. president george bush got to around nine in the polls. biden has stayed around the 40s. it is still about 45% how people feel he is handling russia. it has not changed our broader polarization. i think there was a consensus except for the people watching that one show that people is bad and who he stood up to and biden

is doing that, but it has not brought the country together behind him. they're for his policies, they're not for him. >> so, mike barnicle, as joe biden wades his way through this and you think back and i am reading some polls that support force for ukraine is growing, even for getting involved beyond anyway that president biden would allow. >> sure, you can feel it. you can sense it on the streets of nearly every american city. i'm in new york today. there are multiple stores with ukrainian flags in the windows of their stores on sixth avenue and places like that. but i'm told that the president is not so much focused on poll numbers, whether they're rising or whatever in response to his actions and pulling together nato countries. i'm told what he is thinking about is october of 1962 and the

cuban missile crisis and the fact that he believes that we are closer to a new clur con conflagration than since 1962. kori, do you think this is one of the hinges of history where what has happened thus far will change the political, security and geographic landscape of western europe for a decade or so? >> i think it will change those aspects for much longer than a decade. if ukraine succeeds in fighting russia to a stand fill or preferably in ejecting russian forces from ukraine, i think you will see a rush on the part of nato and the european union to

bring ukraine into the safety of those unions. because they have earned it with their courage and resistance, i think russia's military has been demonstrated to be less proficient than any of us believed. you will see a russia shrinking from europe but hopefully reconstituting itself along those lines. i think it is a moment like the end of world war ii where all of the boats are rocking but the forces of freedom are doing what they need to preserve and protect themselves. >> the war in ukraine touches every aspect of diplomatic relations, even extending to outer space. right now there are four american astronauts and two russian cosmonauts on the international space station.

tensions between nasa and its counterpart in moscow increased since the u.s. hit russia with several sanctions after putin's invasion. there have even been threats of crashing the international space station. mark caputo is joining us. what can you tell us? >> after almost 50 years of the united states and russia, and russia when it was the soviet union, began working together on joint space exploration and certainly for the last 35 years working on what became the international space station, those relations are strained like never before. the head of russia's space station is basically a twitter troll, and he -- you know, he tweeted out comments that, hey, since russia controls the engines that keeps the international space station allot of, like it would be a shame if something happened to it and it crashed into earth. then he kind of suggested he was

joking. then thinks agency, the russian space agency produced a video that is released at a, quote, unquote, comic, a joke, on telegram on social media that showed russia having its modules of the space station coming apart and leaving an american astronaut away. incidentally, they're launching a rocket to return with the american astronaut. bill nelson, former senator, now head of nasa, he was trying to take the tensions down. on monday he addressed the 60,000 workforce of both employees and contractors saying, hey, look, we're watching this, we are committed to the joint mission here, but

his remarks didn't reference regozen with whom the united states has a lot of concerns. he was among those sanctioned in 2014 when putin first invaded crimea, then controlled or part of ukraine. then four years later putin decided to make regozen the head of the space agency there. so the question is regozen tweeting these crazy things. he tweeted a "tom and jerry" video that animated thomas russia and jerry as ukraine, not understanding in the american cartoon jerry winds up winning and tom losing, nevertheless he tweeted this. no one is quite sure if he is doing this or doing it on putin's order. >> yes. mark, let's talk about another issue that's come up obviously. america, europe trying to get away from dependence on russian

oil. you obviously cover the beat in florida. i'm wondering, what is the impact of the possibility of the united states opening up trading with venezuela? is that something that would be met with so many objections it wouldn't be politically feasible? >> it is met with so many objections in south florida. we have a very large venezuelan exile community, and the biden campaign and the florida democratic party have done zero successful grass outreach team building to the community. if you want to turn the ship and start to negotiate with maduro, who by all accounts is a dictator, you have to have your political operation start to sell it to your own people in your own base and none of that work has been done by biden, none by the florida democratic

party, and a lot of florida democrats have come out against it. nicky freed has expressed opposition to it, as has the congress woman from south florida. there's bipartisan opposition to it in south florida. whether the policy is good or not, whether it is good to talk to your rivals, your enemies, whether it is good to try to get more oil out of maduro and have maduro release hostages, but if you are going to have those relations you might want your folks on the state side behind it. so far i have seen no evidence that biden or democrats in general have done that. right now these talks that biden has done, at least in south florida, has kind of flown as successfully as a lead balloon. >> all right. >> thank you so much. nbc's marc caputo. we greatly appreciate your reporting. >> thank you, marc. >> so fascinating insights, particularly what is going on

with nasa. peter baker, let's talk about something going on now also. that is, of coarse, you look at the efforts to revive build back better. you look at other parts, the supreme court, other parts of joe biden's domestic agenda. is there a feeling he will be successful in any way in getting a part of build back better there, getting his supreme court nominee through? what's the status on the hill? >> yeah, i mean obviously the supreme court nomination of ketanji brown jackson is important to him. he lost lindsey graham who voted for her to be confirmed to the appeals court just a year ago is voting against her for the supreme court. that's a republican vote the white house was hoping for. they still think they will get her through. the build back better is more complicated. they haven't found a formula yet for getting pieces of it through congress, even as they give up

on the larger package and they want to change the marketing of it. they want to get rid of the phrase and find a better way of selling it to the public. the most important domestic thing that happened for president biden yesterday was about the federal reserve raising interest rates and signaling it is going to continue to raise interest rates now through the end of the year trying to get hold of the inflation. for president biden probably domestically that's the more important thing that could happen heading into the midterm election, if they could find a way to ease back on inflation so by fall people feel it is back in control. it is not in his hands, but obviously in the hands of his federal appointees that decided to take action. >> i think it is safe to say mainly because of inflation right now there is despair among capitol hill among democrats, concerned they're going to get routed in the elections this fall. are you hearing the same thing? >> i think that's a big, big

concern. the fact that omicron has begun to recede is positive news from the democrat's point of view, but they hoped it would be accompanied by an equivalent receding in inflation. the problem is when things go right, like covid coming down a little bit something else happens, like this ukraine will that takes time from it. the closer you get to the election the harder it is to get something through, so it is a fraught moment for president biden. we talked earlier that the foreign crisis has taken a lot of his time, a lot of his energy and, you know, a lot of the oxygen out. >> peter baker and kori schake, thank you for being on the show this morning. still ahead on "morning joe," a look how musicians in ukraine are providing some much-needed relief in their war-torn country.

plus, free brittney takes on a new meaning after the arrest of an american basketball star in russia. this morning questions and concerns about the wnba's britney griner. you're watching "morning joe." we will be right back. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ with a bit more thought we can all do our part to keep plastic out of the ocean. real cowboys get customized car insurance with liberty mutual, so we only pay for what we need. -hey tex, -wooo. can someone else get a turn? yeah, hang on, i'm about to break my own record. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪

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that is from the tv series volodymyr zelenskyy starred in before he turned to politics and netflix has now made the series available in the u.s. the company tweeted, quote, "servant of the people" is once again available on netflix in the u.s. the 2015 satirical comedy series stars volodymyr zelenskyy himself playing a teacher who unexpectedly becomes president after a video of him complaining about corruption suddenly goes viral. the show ran from 2015 to 2019 when life then mirrored art, and zelenskyy rose to political power. medvedev, the russian tennis

player currently sitting at number one in the rankings could be banned from wimbledon unless he denounces russia president vladimir putin. that was a situation outlined during a meeting at the british parliament this week where the country's sports minister confirmed discussions were taking place to prevent supporters of putin from entering the world's oldest tennis tournament amid russia's invasion of ukraine. according to "the telegraph" the english sports minister said, quote, we need some potential assurance that they are not supporters of vladimir putin, and we are considering what requirements we may need to try to get some assurances along those lines. the move would affect medvedev and any other russian and belarusian tennis player currently barred from playing under their national flags. >> no. >> i'm very uncomfortable with this. >> mike barnicle, it is one thing if he has been out there after every tournament going,

"power to putin," you know. >> or wearing something. >> wearing a "z" or something like that. >> that's a no. >> but to ask this guy to proactively do something that puts him in danger when he returns back to his country and his family. >> yeah. >> boy, that seems awfully reckless. >> seems to be russian. >> and also let him play. you never know what is going to happen. we were all moved by the russian player in the dubai tournament who went over to the camera and wrote "no war." in fact, we have had him on our show. he came on our show. he doesn't talk politics. again, this is overkill. i'm hearing stations that have not playing tchaikovsky anymore. what are they going to do, ban tolstoy next?

it is ridiculous, it is overkill. why don't we just start talking about freedom again. >> it is inevitable common sense becomes a casualty of wars like this. that's the reality of it, we are at war. putin is a bad guy who is not going to quit. this guy is a casualty of the lack of common sense that's affected by what is happening in ukraine. to your point, he probably does have a fairly large family back in russia, so they get -- the tennis federation gets him to stand up and complain about putin? the papers have been filled with stories for just the past two days about putin's increasingly repressive attitude and people losing freedoms that they took for granted even in moscow. so this is ridiculous trying to get someone, a public layer, an athlete to stand up and renounce his own government for political

purposes really. >> well, again, katty, obviously there have been -- if you are talking about roman abramovich, roman abramovich became a billionaire because he was in bed politically with vladimir putin. that's different than a man playing tennis, isn't it? >> yes, and we have to be careful about virtual signaling that's going on, as you said, about cancelling russian players. there's a story about a russian restaurant in new york that no one will go to and guess what, it is owned by ukrainians. it gets ridiculous and it is harmful in some ways because it feeds into putin's narrative, this is the west trying to cancel russian society. that's the last thing we need to do. we need to confine this, as fiona hill says, getting russian troops out of ukraine and make it clear it is not about anything else.

it is not about the west taking on russia, it is not about regime change, it is not about destroying russian society. every time a russian athlete is told to do something like this, you won't -- or vodka has been taken off the shelves in after store in virginia and it is a latvian company, not a russian company. >> it is one thing if a russian team is banned from competing under a russian flag, but these are individuals. i think a helpful example would be nhl hockey which has a lot of russian players including one of the most popular stars in the lead who plays in washington, won a stanley cup a few years ago and is seen as a friend of

putins. he was asked about it after the situation began and he said, look, russia is my home and i'm against the war. they're allowed to be part of a team and go about their game and not have to renounce their homeland, even if they have mixed feelings about the war or oppose the war, but it is still their home and they have family there that could be put in danger. >> exactly. medvedev was asked about it a few weeks ago and he said, i want peace. beyond that i'm not sure what you want a young man to do with family in russia. >> it is really stupid. >> when you have somebody that says, i want peace which in and of itself in this environment is actually -- >> inflammatory. >> an act of resistance and inflammatory in the mind of

vladimir putin, i'm not sure what else you want. i hope they back down pretty quickly. >> now to this. after three weeks of war in ukraine, wnba star brittney griner remains detained in russia. she was said to be arrested on drug charges at an airport outside moscow in mid-february when russian authorities allegedly found vape cartridges containing hash oil in the luggage she travelled with on a flight from new york. a russian state media outlet reports this morning her detention has been extended to may 19th. russia, where griner plays in the off-season, has so far blocked consular access to her, and a month after her arrest there is still little known about her circumstances as u.s. authorities have been mostly silent except to say they are working to bring her home. calls for her release are ramping up including from former

secretary of state hillary clinton who tweeted yesterday, "free brittney." this is a big issue because it all started before the war and a lot of concern about how she is and what is going to happen with her. we will continue to follow that story. coming up, some airline passengers created chaos in the skies over the past year when they refused to comply with federal mask requirements. now they're paying the price. a look at the hefty penalties handed down by the tsa. that's ahead on "morning joe." this is the new world of work. each day looks different than the last. but whatever work becomes, the world works with servicenow. realtor.com's draw a map feature helped us find what we wanted, where we wanted. so we could finally buy our first "big boi house." big boi house.

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children are in -- in germany, in mansions, where are all of these manages seized? i don't see that. i see that my family members, that my team members are safe and we are crying. >> this is what is happening, primere minister. >> early in the invasion of ukraine many took note of that moment, a ukrainian activist questioning uk prime minister boris johnson, activist questiog boris johnson, the executive director of ukraine's action center joins us now. thank you so much for coming on the show. i believe that moment happened in poland and my] actually sent me the video. he was very moved as well, tell us what you think of how the united states and the world is responding to ukraine now? i would assume that you understand there are concerns about this spilling out into a full-on world war?

>> looks like she froze. i turns out, she didn't like my question. no, we'll get darya set up technically so we can hear her audio and get right back to her. you know many parts of ukraine are active war zones right now. some cities have been reduced to rubble. and in parts of western ukraine, musicians have taken to the streets to share their gifts to their country and fellow citizens in a time of great pain. it's having a lot of impact. it's really emotional. nbc news correspondent mollie hunter reports. >> reporter: far from the front lines, the city sound track is different here in the west. tell aviva harmonic orchestra is giving everything they good. great for the play. >> a little gift. a little time to shine in heart.

>> reporter: you see the sunshine in their hearts? >> yeah. >> reporter: like so many young ukrainian men, next week might be different. >> if our army will need my hand and my heart, i will go. >> reporter: musicians here, some residents, some new arrivals, fighting in their own way. ♪♪ >> reporter: music producer packsine in the back fled kharkiv about a week ago. yesterday, he heard singing and today is a duet of the ukrainian folk song and around the corner, 31-year-old paul is donating his tips to the military. there are lots of ways to support your country. this is how you are doing it right now? >> yes. i can play. i played. >> this is also the sound of a country at war.

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all right. a couple of covid-related pieces of news here, equivalent to the irish prime minister, the t-shock is in town to visit with president biden. but he can't, because he has covid. and on the topic of covid, the white house has announced a new covid coordinator and it's someone very near and dear to this show. dr. ashish jha is the new coordinate roar. we will be hearing from him here jonathan lemire in the coming months. it seems to an extent that covid is under control but we keep hearing people here and there getting covid, barack obama, the

irish t-shock. my brother mark, it's popping up everywhere, second gentleman. >> mika, unfortunately, we may be seeing a bit of a surge, biden just put out a statement, jeffrey zions will be winding down. dr. ashish jha a familiar face on msnbc and authoritative voices will be a new coordinator going forward. the white house had a second bout. the second gentleman tested positive and last night the irish prime minister in town for the st. patrick's day tested positive. he was at the vent last night in d.c. with the president. he had to leave after he was notified of his positive test. the white house said it didn't

technically count as a close contact. they didn't spend enough time together. this is now the second moment this wrooek week where the president has had some degree of risk with someone from covid. though he didn't have an encounter with a second gentleman, he spent time with the vice president who is far is negative, still in a window where that can change. so we don't know what the white house will do for now. his schedule can change. there are a few st. patrick's days event, joe biden's favorite day of the year. it is unsure what light it will take who are exposed. the schedule very much in flux and a reminder, they are surging in europe and here in the u.s. now as well. >> all right. still ahead, did ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy's address move members of congress? we will hear from the minnesota democrat, a former cia analyst.

plus, a member of the intelligence committee, republican senator ben sasse joins us. we are back in one minute. minute. >> entresto is the number one heart failure brand prescribed by cardiologists and has helped over one million people. it was proven superior at helping people stay alive and out of the hospital. don't take entresto if pregnant; it can cause harm or death to an unborn baby. don't take entresto with an ace inhibitor or aliskiren, or if you've had angioedema with an ace or arb. the most serious side effects are angioedema, low blood pressure, kidney problems, or high blood potassium. ask your doctor about entresto. it's still the eat fresh refresh, and now subway's refreshing their italians. like the new supreme meats,

topped high with new italian-style capicola. that's one handsome italian. uh... thanks. not you, garoppolo! ♪♪ subway keeps refreshing and refreshing and refres- president biden, you are the leader of the nation. i wish you to be the leader of the world, being the leader of the world means to be the leader of peace. >> so the former u.s. president ronald reagan said this in berlin, break down this wall and i want to say to you chancellor schultz, break down this wall

give germany leadership. >> ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy's message to america yesterday versus his message to germany this morning as he implores the west to step up aid to ukraine and to impose tougher sanctions on russia. welcome back to "morning joe." it is thursday, march 17th. jonathan lemire and cat can i kay are with us? just a moment, we will be talking to michigan congresswoman alyssa slotkin. president biden gave president vladimir putin a stamp as they target civilians across ukraine. this morning, nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel has the latest from the capital. >> reporter: russia's warplane

can only be described as scorched earth and bombing now every day apartment buildings in kiev. on the edge of kiev this morning in a hospital in bovary, katerina was sold yogurt and milk at the park. she says she came out from her basement for a moment when the missile blue off her leg and september shrapnel piercing her lung. before i had a house and a job and now i have no home and why, for what she ccs? she began to curse russia. one city is bearing the brunt of russia's pitiless assault, mariupol in the south. many of the marges from a hospital here are too fwrafk to broadcast. but one medic's account from the ukrainian news outlet paints a message of the horror. >> every part is entrails falling from bodies. it is unpleasant too hear about this. you have to listen. now we cannot bury the bodies.

we can't get people with wounds and broken bones out of their houses, because they are trapped in houses and basements. appeals to avoid killing civilians have been useless. new satellite images show the main theater in front and in back signs in russian that read children, large enough to be invisible by the air. ukraine's government says hundreds of people were sheltering inside, russia struck the theater anyway claiming it was a military headquarters. it's unclear how many may have been killed or injured. russia may be bombing mariupol with veracity because it wants to keep it. they could give them a land bridge to crimea. russia is destroying the very prize it seeks to own and ukrainian troops aren't taking it lying down. the new york sometimes citing american intelligence estimates reporting ukrainian forces have killed around 7,000 russians so

far. more than the u.s. lost in afghanistan and iraq combined. but president vladimir putin may be willing to lose many more. in an angry-sounded speech, he framed the war as an existential fight for russia's survival. he accused them of nazis working with the united states to develop nuclear and biological weapons, including covid. he said russia had no choice but to strike first. ukrainian officials say the shelter beneath that theater in mariupol remains intact. as they are clearing away debris, survivors are emerging. mika. joe. >> oh, richard eng em, thank you. more on that new reporting that richard mentioned from the "new york times" detailing how the increasing number of russian troop deaths is severely impacting morale. the pentagon estimates 7,000 russian troops have been killed in the three-week war so far.

which is greater than the number of american troops killed in over 20 years in iraq and afghanistan combined between 14 and 21,000 russian troops have been injured. american officials tell the "times" the staggering numbers have an impact. the 10% casualty rate including dead and wounded for a single unit renders it unable to carry out combat-related tasks. the report continues, quote, pentagon officials say that a high, and rising, number of war dead can destroy the will to continue fighting. the result, they say, has shown up in intelligence reports that senior officials in the biden administration read every day. one recent report focussed on low morale among russian troops and described soldiers just parking their vehicles and walking off into the woods. western officials tell the

"times" around 20 russian generals have been pushed closer to the front lines in an effort to boost morale. three of them are confirmed dead and yesterday, ukrainian officials said their forces killed a fourth. joining us now, democratic congresswoman alyssa slotkin, previously served as a middle east analyst for the cia and served as acting assistant secretary of defense for international security affairs. it's good to have you on board this morning. >> so congresswoman, you look at the polling numbers and most americans actually support pluralitys. support is doing more than we are doing right now. you look at the "wall street journal" opinion pages and it reflects some of those feelings. the wall street journal, itself, saying why not victory in ukraine? i am struck by the last line, where they said, mr. biden wanted to beat fdr.

the world needs him to be truman at the dawn of the war. also a former u.n. ambassador to the united nations says the west must do more, risk for ukraine. so, the question is, you heard the speech. you heard the president's speech after. you seen these polls, americans wanting us to do more, while not getting actively involved in the hot war. what else can we do right now? >> yeah, well, i do think the packingage the president introduced is more. president zelenskyy has been asking for help in the skies above ukraine to create parody or more competition with the russian air power and what we announced yesterday was additional drones, additional anti-aircraft systems, just a whole range of things on top of what we already provided that at least help even the score. the ukrainians are doing exceptionally well with those weapons. it's not what president zelenskyy sort of would want i think in his perfect heart hoff

hearts, which is a no-fly zone. but if americans want to even the battle out and not have american sons and daughters fighting russia, then this is to me a very important step. it should come with other economic sanctions we can do, keeping up that punishment, that drum beat. i think yesterday we started to put more out there that really helps balance the scales a bit more. >> two things for you. first, i want to get your reaction to what you heard from a rather emotional president zelenskyy in his address to congress yesterday. but second, get you to react to breaking news we got right now, which the white house announced that president biden is going to be speaking to china's xi jinping tomorrow and the topic will be ukraine. there certainly is a sense that russia has obviously aligned itself with china, at least attempted to during this moment. there is a sense among some observers that president economy might be one of the very few voices out there that might have some influence over putin. how do you think this should go? >> i think that's a var important phone call. what is going on right now is

china is literally taking notes on everything that is happening on russia and ukraine. right? this is a parallel situation if they ever decided to go to taiwan. they are watching very closely how the world reacts. how the united states reacts. i think you know the other thing is they have economic interests in being closer to china and coming in and filling the gap, where paypal leads e leaves, the chinese want to surge in. they are a consumer of everything russia produces. it's a complicated moment for russia, sorry, for china. i think it's an important moment to see which direction they're going in. that phone call is a perfect time for the president of thoip china to be very clear on the direction he will take. >> congresswoman, there is a big nato meeting coming up next week. the issue of jets in the no-fly zones ruled off the table by stoltenberg. do you think we are edging closer to giving ukraine the jets that it wants? i had a conversation yesterday with some ukrainian military

officials and they said, we know that the west thinks we're not using our own jets. there is a reason. what's the back story behind the jets' discussion and whether it would or would not be helpful for them to have those? >> i think when consequences happen, i remember when isis took over parts of iraq and syria. you are quickly trying to get weapons in the hands of the kurds and the iraqis and the weapons systems they are familiaring with. you are scouring the world for ammunition, russian-made systems and ukrainians in this case can use and planes, air planes of all kind will be one of the things they ask for first. i think there is an open question on whether they would use them and to what effect. i don't think it in my position like i'm going to be saying what the ukrainians can and cannot do. if they need and are asking us for more air power, we want countries to step up and do it. i think the hot potato situation that happened with poland is they were sort of the dog that caught the car. they said, sure, we'd be happy

to give these air frames. the united states says, ork, great, we want to work on that they said, hold on, hold on. so i think there was a bit of a surprise that people were so willing to do this and poland and other countries are obviously worried about the risk of escalation. they're worried about being seen by russia as a party to the war. so i think we have to push at this nato meeting to really get the surrounding countries to say, hey, we're strong if we link arms together. let's get the ukrainians the things you may have in your military stores. >> congresswoman alyssa slotkin, thank you as always for being on this morning. so russia's vladimir putin defended his brutal actions in ukraine and despite major military setbacks, claimed the war is quote developing successfully and according to plan. in new remarks yesterday, putin brought up the thoroughly debunked conspiracy theory the u.s. is funding biolabs in ukraine and ukraine plans to use

pathogens on russian citizens. he also called for the, quote, self purification of pro-western russians calling them, quote, traitors and basstards, accused them of selling their own mother and oligarchs saying those that have avila in miami or the french rivera and cannot do without oysters and reportedly has two spy chiefs under house arrest because they underestimated ukraine's resistance ahead of the invasion. this all makes so much sense. joining us now, staff writer for the "new yorker," author of the recent book entitled surviving autocracy, marsha guesson, distinguished professor of global affairs at john hopkins school of international studies ham brands joins us.

his book "the twilight struggle," what the cold war teaches us about great power rivalry today." good to have you both. >> so, marsha, you recently talked, i thought it was fascinating, you talked about parallel realities that are existing now in russia that you haven't felt since the fall of the soviet union. can you explain? >> well, if you are lifling in russia right now and watching russian television, which most russians do most of them have it in the background, especially people older than 45, which is most russians, you don't know that there is a war going on. you know that there is a special military operation and more than anything else, you get the sense that things are kind of normal. right. where here if you turn on the television, anywhere in the western world, you constantly see these horrible images and you get the sense even if you are not attentively watching or listening.

you get the sense something extraordinary, something huge is happening in the world that's an emergency. in russia, it's normal. the sort of the tone of the news is just regular and, you know, the newscasts are five minutes long and then they go to reassuring the population that russia has a plan for dealing with the effects of anti-russian sanctions unmotivated anti-russian sanctions and the economy will be fine. >> so, talk about putin's anti-modernism, a man who is not exactly sure if he's stuck in 1989 or 1939. but we have a man who is desperately out of time. a man out of time. and i wonder whether that can continue to, whether he can continue to govern in 2022 and beyond in a world that has

changed so dramatically since the cold war's end. >> reporter: well, i'll give you an example. really the incredible quotes that you used just before the segment from his speech yesterday in we he talked, he went off on a rant about traitors to the motherland. when he talked about people who can't live without oysters, what is he said what can't live without oysters and gender freedom? that's a kind of a rant against the decadent west modernity that is very typical of putin. i'd say he's stuck in the 1847 cross with 1937. he is thinking in terms of empire. he is not thinking in terms of the soviet union. he is very much thinking in terms of what he imagines the russian empire to have been. and he wants to restore that greatness. and the reason i mentioned 1937 was because for russians, that is a year emblematic of the

great terror, that is what has happened and coming again in russia is a totalitarian terror in the name of the great empire. can he govern? yes, he can govern. who is going to stop him? i think that's the question president zelenskyy is asking. >> you know hal brands, it's so extraordinary, you know, recently i listened to the bomber mafia, ma'am come gladwell. it's this story about -- malcolm gladwell. the development of smart bombs and targeting so, you hit military targets and avoid civilian targets and how these group, his group of soldiers airmen in the '20s and '30s and '40s obsessed over this

technology. here we are 100 years later and you have dumb bombs hurling into apartment buildings, really seemingly deliberately targeting civilians with absolutely no concern about casualties. this is something we thought we moved well beyond. >> yes. and part of the problem is that the russians have run short on smart weapons, because they were expecting a short war and, in fact, they've got an long and very costly one and smart munitions, that cost a lot of money. they're relatively scarce. so the russians have run short on them. i think we are seeing a deliberate strategy of essentially terrorizing the civilian population in hopes of breaking ukraine's political will. the russians can't generate the offense of military power to take the major cities. they have been frustrated several times in that respect. what they can do is park their artillery 20 to 30 miles outside

of kiev and other major cities and lob shells into the civilian population. i think that's basically the other option putin has left, unless he wanted to take more drastic forms of escalation. >> what does it mean the russian military has under performed so badly when we have been saying dr. brezinski continually referred to the soviet union as a one dimensional power incapable of building economic capacity, incapable of keeping up the west technologically, all they had was military power and that one dimension has been so badly exposed over past three-and-a-half weeks. what does that mean to putin? what does that mean to russia? >> well, it's certainly putting a dent in putin's image. you know, he's cultivated the reputation as a master strategist who uses military force ruthlessly, but effectively. we've seen very little of it here. it appears that the russians were operating on a half-baked plan that they fundamentally

underestimated ukrainian resistance. we should give credit to ukrainians whose military improved dramatically in part of the training relationships they've had with the united states and western countries. we still shouldn't having over estimated putin before start underestimating him now. the russian military has some fearsome capabilities. there are reports putin may have dangerous forms of escalation. so the more desperate he becomes as his armies in ukraine bog down, the more dangerous he may become as well. >> what about and i think, ham, i'll ask you this and ask marsha to follow up. but within russia, support for putin. you see him on the younger generations and people leaving russia, wanting to not have anything to do with russia at this time and members of the younger generations getting out and even protesting and ricking and facing being in jamie,

protesting the war. we see these acts of bravery happening but what happens when more and more russian soldiers start coming home in body bags, will these numbers we are seeing adding up over time and have an impact inside russia? >> it's difficult to say. it's hard to know at the moment how representative protests and acts of dissidence are of the broader public sentiment in russia. that said, the number of casualties we are seeing are quite shocking. and i would have to think they have some impact on russian public opinion over time. the issue, of course, is putin is going to great lengths to conceal the number of casualties that russian forces are suffering in ukraine right now. >> yes, and same question to you, marsha, over time, they watch the news, they hear his speeches. he says everything is going to plan. you know we are liberating

ukraine or whatever other lie he is putting out there, but the sons don't come home. they don't come home, or the mothers find out their dead. i mean, does this add up? >> what he has done is he has done everything to make it not add up for at least a very long time. and there are a couple of things. one is that they're not, you know, they're not allowing soldiers to tell their families where they are. they take away their smartphones before they're deployed. they are traveling with mobile creamatoria, february 1st the law allowing them to bury people in mass graves went into effect. finally, they completely dominate the media. they dominated the media before the war started, but since the war started. since this part of the war started, they have blocked every single independent media outlet in the country.

so one thing basically what we are seeing is familys have no way of finding out what is happening with their sons. are they alive? are they dead? and families don't have media. they're not a part of a public space where this conversation is happening. so they're not talking to other people unless they're in the immediate i have cindy about what is happening to their families. even with a large number of casualties, it takes a long time of their awareness to take hold. >> is that what happened in afghanistan, because we've heard that mothers of dead soldiers they actually had an impact even in the soviet union after years of fighting in afghanistan and losses there? >> it took a very long time for exactly the same reason. right? as far as the families knew the young man was missing in action, or even possibly still deployed. so i wouldn't count him as

having any time soon. putin is basically deploying preemptive terror at this point against people who protest. >> masha gesson an hal brand, thank you for your insights. still ahead on "morning joe", the invasion is sparking concerns about food shortages in the war-torn country. ja sob severov joins us next. plus, republican senator ben sasse said yesterday the united states is a super power and we should act like it. he joins us ahead amid his push for more aid to ukraine. you are watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. e watching . we'll be right back. this is vuity™, the first and only fda approved eye-drop that improves age-related blurry near vision. wait, what? it sounded like you just said an eye drop that may help you see up close. i did. it's an innovative way to... so, wait. i don't always have to wear reading glasses? yeah! vuity™ helps you see up close.

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with the u.n. warning of severe shortages looming. joining us from lviv, ukraine, nbc correspondent jacob soberoff with this angle. good morning. >> reporter: mika, good morning to you. the people living here in ukraine they say are facing hunger and malnutrition. this is one effort to make sure that does not happen. it's a chicken, international ngo. they are partnering with local ukrainians. they have scaled up exponentially in the war in ukraine, to make sure no ukrainian goes hungry. when ukrainian civilians create infrastructure, hospitals, schools, supply routes, some fear food storage could be met. in a normal report, i can tell you where we are. i can't. this food, all this food in the middle of a war couldn't be a more valuable commodity. the whereabouts of these apples,

potatoes and cabbages are protected by the executive director of the world central kitchen. we met nate and his partner yulia and one of the largest shelters in lviv. >> for about 700 people currently, we bring lunch and dinner every day. >> reporter: man, it's not light. what's in here? >> these hot meals part in other words in our kitchen. >> reporter: we brought it into a make-shift cafeteria have you such a big smile on your face in the middle of a war. what is it? >> my smile is my power. >> reporter: this is your way of fighting? >> yes. >> reporter: some people have weapons. >> my purpose is food and life. >> reporter: with local partners, world central kitchens fed a million people since the start of the war in ukraine. in 14 different cities, and is now feeding 500 meals a day in five countries in the region.

have you ever operated in a war zone before? >> we happened, we worked in haiti and venezuela venezuela, of course, this is a totally different environment. so this is one of the rooms where families are living? so there is ten rooms like this around the university. >> what was this room normally? >> so this was a gymnasium. >> reporter: by the time we made it back to the cafeteria, people were already eating. these two women are from hard hit irpin. how is it like being here? you can say it's a little cold, more or less it's fine, she told me. what about a hot meal? of course, we are so happy, she said. in our city, there is no gas, no water. nothing. people live in the basements. it's hard for you? of course, she says. it's different. but we're here together. mika, we heard last night on a phone call unexpectedly from the chef jose andres who says he

will be coming back to the country. his mission is to build longer tables, bring people together at a time when it is needed so badly and what that means operationally on the ground here inside this kich isn't that right now they're in a break. they're in between shifts. this place is operating around the clock, hot meals, sandwiches, food, beverage to make sure as i said that not a single ukrainian goes hungry and the u.n. is warning that is a distinct possibility at this point, mika. >> jacob soboroff. that's a part of the humanitarian effort in ukraine. up next, we are taking a look at how ukrainians are caring for newborns now caught in the war zone. keep it right here on "morning joe." zone keep it right here on "morning joe. book with priceline. 'cause when you save more, you can “no way!” more. no wayyyy. no waaayyy! no way! [phone ringing] hm. no way! no way! priceline. every trip is a big deal. (fisher investments) in this market, you'll find fisher investments

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advance. sky news special correspondent alex crawford takes us inside kiev. >> reporter: the capital's skyline is very different now. kiev's 18th century st. andrew's church with a backdrop battle which is getting closer. the city has been put under strict curfew to try to limit the lives lost, but there is no protecting against attacks like these. a second missile strikes less than a minute later. the ukrainian demands for a no-fly zone grow more ardent with every strike. despite peace talks, the president's chief of staff told us there are red lines they would not cross. would you be prepared to give up

donbas? >> look, i say and answer your questions, we don't discuss our freedom our independence, our territorial integrity, our sovereignty. all another issue we can see and discuss and my president. my president's already to city in many days in a new place. >> reporter: you are not prepared to give up any territory? >> yes. >> reporter: no territory? >> yes. >> reporter: they're on the lookout for russian saboteurs. we filmed the detention of these two suspects before the capital's curfew. the ukrainians are worried that russian agents have infiltrated the main city and are acting as guides for possible airstrikes, leaving tags or markers on potential targets or just acting as informants on troop and military movements. these concerns have heightened

over the past 24 hours as the russian soldiers inch closer to kiev and the center of ukrainian power. amongst those at risk of being trapped in the capital are scores of surrogate babies. there are so many the nurse i have a constant hub of crying demands for attention. the babies being camp david for in a basement, which is being turned into an underground shelter by a very small team of baby-sitters. these women have left their familys to look after these little once, after the baby's actual parents couldn't reach them because of all the fighting. >> you have to understand, this is war, this baby-sitter says, not everyone is able to come. the airports are all closed, so their parents can't pick them up. we love all the babies, the

mother says, as she explains, they have become a part of our heartings, our family. when the parents do take them away, we cry, she tells us. but with heavy fighting around the capital, it's meant the women looking after the babies here are all that stands between them and the bombings. there are so many acts of defiance being played out on these streets. one soldier and his fleet and the national anthem. we won't be ruled by others, it goes, in so many ways he speaks for his country. >> that was sky news special correspondent alex crawford reporting. coming up, republican senator ben sasse is standing by. he joins the conversation next on "morning jo." joins the convt on "morning joe." ♪♪ making friends again, billy? i like to keep my enemies close. guys, excuse me. i didn't quite get that. i'm hard of hearing.

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>> ukraine can provide more sanctions. >> we need to work creatively to protect them against themselves, this means anti-aircraft and this does mean drones. >> we can help the ukrainians defend themselves, that's something we got to do. we have a moral responsible to do that i think it's in our own best interest. >> zelenskyy needs more. if it shoots, we should ship it. more es-300s, more javelins, more drones, more stingers, more everything. >> senator sasse joins us now, a member of the senate intelligence committee. it's great to have you on. the last time you were on we had a pg-13 appearance by you, the side of scarface. we understand you are very impassioned. yes. i saw you on cnn the next day, you guarded your words, i go, wait a second, cnn is like a g-rated network.

>> i have no problems on this show. >> well, my problem, senator, is that, you know, other than me. >> aha. >> you use some more colorful language than us. >> yes. >> so senator, i greatly appreciate your passion for ukraine. i want to ask you this question. i think so many americans agree with what you have said and others have said. understanding that we have allies, we need to work with, understanding we have a yrant who threatened world war ii, repeatedly, understanding we are shipping some weapons in there that, obviously, we are not announcing. what else beyond what president biden said yesterday, what else do we need to get in there as quickly as possible? >> yes so we can talk some specific weapon systems. i this city bicker point, where you are actually headed is the moral question of where this goes over the next three months and three years. that weapon stls, they need

es-300s now, the portland clip about specific anti-aircraft stuff that's needed that they need more drones. they need more javelins. they need coastal defense systems. obviously, russia's navy is trying to get involved in this. we seen that in some of the bombings in the south. more fundament amy. i give the administration credit for certain things. bringing along european central banks. it was important. the u.s. doesn't have a lot of trade with russia and europe does, so bringing along in those central banks was important. there were all sorts of particular ways the administration yesterday said a lot of the right things. just because the pen wasn't in president biden's hand doesn't mean the weapons are in zelenskyy's hands today. at every point we are too slow. it feels a huge part of the administration audience is these internal lawyers. they do these legal hair-splitting arguments. at the end of the day, every weapon we ship to ukraine is a defensive weapon system, because they're the ones being invaded.

ukraine didn't cause this. there is a fight for freedom happening in ukraine. every weapon we give ukraine is defensive. so the lures in the administration need to take a backseat. the administration needs to tell people what they're for, not against, mostly what you hear out of the administration is self deterrence. >> so you are on the intel committee. you know things, obviously, that even other members of congress can't know we looking at this from the outside, really we hear about weapon systems going over there, but we can't move it. we can't see the movements, david ignacious talked about going to the border and seeing a tremendous amount of weapons cross that border. so how, what can you tell us about what's not getting there, what, how it needs to get there faster? what are the road blocks? >> well, so, first of all, at the level of lethal targeting information, which is what we discussed together on your show, i don't know, a week, a week and

a half ago. the administration regularly starts the conversations by saying, what might putin think about this? and what might he claim by press release would lead us to some terrible new place? we should, of course, be cautious when you are dealing with a guy who whether you think he is a bad man or not has a giant nuclear arsenal and he would like to be perceived as a madman. you don't start every conversation saying he has no moral bounds and because he had a lot of nuclear weapons, everything we do should be guided by the argument that putin might be really pissed about this and, therefore, do what? bomb, women and children? i 19 the theater bombing yesterday had children written on the roof, we know from some back channel stuff. i'm not saying anything across intel lines here, we know some encrypted apps that a lot of russian military were using afterwards, they're chilling the fact that they were cheering children. they want to demoralize the

population and by us having an administration that goes out and almost leads by saying, it might be dangerous to do this thing that might be perceived as escalatory. he gets the advantage, he always gets to move first and knows the bound of every we should have putin worried what might happen to him and to this war effort of his if he continues to escalate against civilian populations. right now you don't get moral or strategic high ground on the side of the administration because there's so much legal parsing that happens in public. >> senator, there's also obviously concern about world war iii because you have putin constantly talking about the use of nuclear weapons. diplomats talking about the use of nuclear weapons. i mean, sometimes our intel community gets it right. sometimes we get it wrong. i don't know where you were on the war in iraq in 2003.

i can tell you, i was on these airwaves and i supported it. i was wrong about weapons of mass destructions. the consequences were terrible, 4,445 americans dead. the consequences of being wrong here obviously far more expansive. so do you -- i'm not asking you obviously to do the white house's bidding here, but do you understand the stakes have so momentous when we're talking about whether we get it right or get it wrong, could end up in a nuclear war? >> of course. and that's why i've said i'm not in favor of declaring a no-fly zone because you don't get to declare a no-fly zone, you have to enforce one, and that would mean putting american pilots in the air nld getting into a direct shooting war with russia. i'm not advocaing that. but i am saying you can't let putin say because he has a nuclear weapon, everything else he does can cause us to self-deter.

44 million ukrainians, 67% of the population has fled. if putin, moves forward with targeting civilian populations for months or years if the resistance could last that long, are we saying that at every point he cans escalate to this, he can escalate to death camps, escalate to that? as we constantly say because he has nuclear weapons we can't do more. we can do more. this is a population of freedom fighters on display for the world to say, and if they'll shoot it, we should ship it because they're willing to fight. we don't need to do the fighting. but we should be doing the constant resupply. a burden of proof should be on us about why we wouldn't supply every single weapon they request. >> senator, i'll pass it around to other people with questions. i want to step back a bit here and just talk generally about what we've seen over the past 3 1/2 weeks. i would guess that we probably share a lot of similarities in

our world views and have over our lifetimes. i believe in america exceptionalism. i've always been a strong proponent of nato. i believe in western civilization and the extraordinary things that have come from western civilizations responsible for feeding and freeing more people than any other civilization known in humankind. talk about the last 3, 3 1/2 weeks, how important it's been to see nato come together again, germany stepping up, liberal democracy, western democracy taking its rightful place in the world and showing there is a difference between good and evil and we're on the side of good. >> absolutely. we have to recognize vladimir putin is not a guy who will be stopped until someone stops him. for two decades he's

assassinated political opponents, shot down aircraft in syria, genocide-like behaviour in bio and chemical weapons attacks, and at no point has he been stopped in the past. that brings us to the point about the last 3 1/2 weeks, what we have in the 40-million-plus civilians. it's not zelenskyy alone, but he's been a model of courage on the global stage. as he's done what he did, he's defied the international community's assumption that every leader facing a big army will just cut and run. people said is he gandhi or churchill for months in the intel space running up to this moment. if most people had to bet, they assumed he would cut and run. he didn't do that. he decided that courage requires standing up against the bully sometimes, and the ukrainians are fighting not just on behalf of their kids and their future but they're fighting on behalf of the whole free world as you mentioned. there's both idealism and realism at play in this moment,

and we need to be doing everything we can to hem the ukrainians not simply lose more slowly but actually have a shot at winning. the world needs the ukrainians to win. that means the ukrainians need to be able to kill russians and to kill russians they need for weapons systems. they have a will to fight. we know who zelenskyy is and who the ukrainians are. he asked yesterday, who are the americans and who is the biden administration? he has the courage of his convictions. we should and we should act like it. >> it's jonathan lemire. in the last few minutes the white house announced tomorrow president biden will be speaking to xi jinping of china and ukraine is very much on the agenda. i know you have some pretty strong feelings about china, so i want to get your sense here, what would you say president biden's message should be tomorrow on that call? and do you harbor any hopes that xi jinping, who might be one of the few voices that president

biden will listen to, do you think xi jinping will tell him to knock it off many. >> russia has 11 time zones. they were able to move all of their tro from the far east to stage them in belarus on the each of the invasion because xi was green light this. we know he didn't want the invasion to disrupt the olympics as he lied to the world about the genocide that's happening with the uighur, but he wanted to make sure the olympics went off without a hitch. but then, once putin was free to invade, xi viewed it as a scout run, a dry run operation to look at how the u.s. and the world might respond to xi's ambitions to seize taiwan. ultimately, hopefully, lots of conflicting intel on how the inner ring around xi are responding to this, but hopefully they're seeing a world and a west that has a little

more will when xi v xi green lighted this. putin wanted to see the u.s. and the west embarrassed. but xi wanted to see there wouldn't be much financial resolve in response to a completely indefensible invasion like this in ukraine and he was hoping he would see a world that wouldn't stand up when he plans to invade taiwan. hopefully, president biden leads with reality and truth about the fact that xi is wrong morally, but he was also wrong in his calculus about the world's response. >> senator, when you look at the next few weeks, how -- what's your biggest fear in terms of how this could spill over into the rest of europe and bring the rest of europe into this war? how would that path go? >> flee or four things to say. first, we're supposed to believe that all 7.8 billion on this

globe are created with dignity in god's image and we're seeing women and civilian populations targeted. so i don't think we should ever lose sight of what's happening to civilians there. at the political level, the polish border and the romanian border and beyond should be fortified more and more. we should be sending weapons system ls not just to the ukraine but to the edges of nato territory as well. obviously, there are ways where confusion could lead to a direct u.s. and nato shooting war with russia. we don't want that to happen. there have been some important conversations about how the migs, for instance, might have been transferred in ways that wouldn't confuse russian generals on the battlefield to think these were planes being flown in from nato, piloted by nato as nato was entering the war. but all of those tactical issues and prudential issues are

ultimately soluble. we need to be leading with the moral reality of what putin is doing is wrong, nato and the u.s. won't countenance it, and that doesn't require us to actually be in a direct shooting war with russia. we don't need to be supplying the pilots, but we should be supplying the planes and munitions. i don't really think this line is that hard. there's all sorts of adult prudence and caution required, but right now we have too much lawyerly hairsplitting. >> all right. senator ben sasse of nebraska, thank you very much. before we close out today, this morning, joe, final thoughts as we're looking ahead to this dragging on and putin just not giving up no matter how many troops he loses. >> well, we don't know that. in fact, there's -- >> the speech yesterday didn't definitely indicate it anytime soon. >> you had lavrov, his foreign minister, being positive about the possibility of coming to a

negotiated settlement. if vladimir putin does settle with the ukrainians and move forward, he's going to have to blame a lot of people domestically. we're starting to see that. he's blaming the traders in the west, the oligarchs in the west, blaming his intel community, he's putting them under house arrest. it sounds a bit like he's trying to clean up things to find other people to blame if he does, in fact, settle with the ukrainians. >> we'll be back tomorrow morning. that does it for us for now. chris jansing picks up the coverage right now. good morning. i'm chris jansing live at msnbc headquarters in new york. it is thursday, march 17th. and we begin with the horrific toll of the war in ukraine reaching a new level this morning along with the ruthlessness of the scorched-earth russian assault. this is the wreckage of a theater in mariupol hit by a russian air strike. more than 1,000 civilians were sheltering inside when it struck, including women