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very good day to all of you from msnbc world headquarters in new york. welcome, everybody, to "alex witt reports." it's just past 2:00 p.m. in the east and washington, 8:00 p.m. in kyiv. 9:00 p.m. in moscow. and the latest reports from ukraine indicate fierce fighting breaking out in mariupol, even as rescue crews dig through the rubble left after a theater where about a thousand civilians have been taking shelter was bombed earlier this week. and as we get a look at the aftermath of that bombing, a new warning from a ukrainian member of parliament that they will

hunt down the people responsible for civilian deaths. >> we will find them. we have professional organizations that are specialized in fighting war criminals. and i hope that in this case, these personal losses are seen by almost every family now. the reality is all that i see in the outskirts of kyiv is heavy fighting and fighting unlike anything i could imagine seeing right near my capital. but what's happening in mariupol is hell on earth. also new this hour, british prime minister boris johnson warns vladimir putin is on the brink of a new age of intimidation in europe. >> he has been terrified of the effect of that ukrainian model on him and on russia, and he has been in a total panic about a so-called color revolution in moscow itself, and that's why he's trying so brutally to snuff out the flame of freedom in

ukraine, and that's why it is so vital that we fails. and new indications that nato is increasing military mobilization in eastern europe. defense secretary lloyd austin announced today the u.s. will provide a striker mechanized infantry company to support a nato battle group. it's being led by bulgaria. it will have up to 1,000 troops under nato's supreme allied commander europe. and president volodymyr zelenskyy today keeping hope alive in pushing for meaningful peace talks with russia, saying, quote, it's time to speak, it's time to restore ukraine's territorial integrity. covering the latest for us, ali joins us from lviv. claudia is in poland for us and gary grumbach is standing by. is there growing concern in lviv? that what you're hearing?

>> reporter: yes, there are concerns here. i have to point out lviv is one of the last safe zones in ukraine. waves and waves of displaced people have come here to flee the war-torn eastern part of this country, south and north as well. and they're seeking refuge here, but all of these attacks that have taken place on the outskirts of kyiv, on that air maintenance facility, on that military base last sunday have rattled people. you know, they're already very scared from the places that they've left and when you're here in lviv and suddenly hear an air raid siren at 6:00 in the morning and you have to get your kids and pets and everything together and go to an underground facility to hide, it makes people nervous, and i have to tell you, alex, most of the people that i have spoken to in lviv, we know just at random, none of them are from lviv. they've all come from different parts of the country and the statistics here are just incredible. unicef says that one child a second is becoming a refugee in this country or displaced.

1.5 million children in this country have already been displaced. lviv has hundreds of thousands of displaced people here and that makes them nervous. yesterday morning, when that air facility place was hit, it made people nervous. black smoke was bellowing over the city and they're wondering what happens next. we managed to speak to this ukrainian journalist who had fled kyiv. she was here in lviv. she heard and felt that attack yesterday morning. let's have a listen to what she had to say. >> i was asleep, and we hear a siren, and i live with my friends, and they come to the basement, but i don't because i think, okay, it's sirens but no explosions. so what? but half an hour, i hear for a sound like bomb, bomb, bomb, and

i -- okay, i think that lviv is the most safe place in ukraine right now, but there is also no safe place in ukraine now. >> reporter: and that's the point. you know, they feel safe here, but they realize that, you know, there is no real safe place anywhere in ukraine, and anything could happen. but kyiv's people count themselves as the lucky ones here in lviv, alex. they don't want to complain that they're here in lviv. they have facilities. lviv is a city that functions. the cafes are open. buskers are out in the middle of the day but you're also aware that you're living in a city that's in a country that's war torn. there's a very strict curfew here at 10:00 in the evening. no alcohol is sold or served anywhere, so you realize at the end of the day, it's not really entirely normal, especially when there's about over 200,000

displaced people here, wondering if they'll ever be able to go back to their homes. >> yeah. just imagine thinking you're in the safest place among places where there is no safe place. thank you very much, ali arouzi. the united nations now estimates more than 3.3 million refugees have fled the violence in ukraine. more than half, over 2 million people, have arrived in poland. and that's where nbc's claudia joins us right now. welcome. it's good to see you. tell me what you're hearing from the refugees as they arrive there. >> reporter: hey, alex, well, let me put that number into perspective. there's 1.8 million people living here in the capital of poland, warsaw, where i am, and that means that in the past three weeks, since the start of the war in ukraine, the number of refugees coming from ukraine into this country has already surpassed the population of its largest city. now, many of them, when they arrive here in warsaw, they arrive by train at one of the

city's main train stations where they are welcomed by an army of polish volunteers who give them everything they can, clothes, food, hot tea, even free sim cards to put into their phones with a polish number so they can call their loved ones to tell them that they have managed to survive that treacherous, dangerous journey across a country marred by death and destruction, and they arrived here. and among the many people we spoke to this morning, we visited this train station was a woman who traveled alone with her child, and let's listen to what she had to say. >> i lost my job, and i felt like -- i felt it was dangerous because there were, like, there were a lot of alarms, and my son was scared often. and we had to go to the cellar oftentimes, and i thought that probably it's going to be even worse, so i decided that it's time to leave now. and he didn't go to school, so i decided that i need to arrange

some studying for us for him somewhere. we're looking for some accommodation here in warsaw. if we find something, then we are going to stay. and he'll go to school. but if we don't, we will have to go somewhere else to look for a place where we can arrange school for him and accommodation for us, because here is really hard to find accommodation. >> reporter: this morning, we also moved on elsewhere in the city to the main stadium here, which is being turned, starting from today, into a massive registration center for ukrainians looking to register for a social security number. they need that if they want to remain here in poland for anything from being -- from having access to healthcare to finding a job, so we spoke to a volunteer there, a polish volunteer, who was there to explain how it works to ukrainians, and she explained it to us as well. let's listen to what she said.

>> the queues were enormous. people came in the morning. for the moment, there is no possibility to do it, because there were so many people who are interested in obtaining such a number. lots of refugees would like to get some jobs, start a new life in poland. that's why they need it so much. >> reporter: even if there are a hundred registration desks in that stadium, the number of ukrainians who turned up at the stadium this morning was so high that they couldn't cope with the number and they told them at some point in the morning to come back tomorrow, alex. >> i got to tell you, if 2 million having fled there, it's understandable what they're facing. thank you so much. let's go to some shocking images throw out of kyiv. apartment buildings completely destroyed by russian shelling. the early morning attack on friday killed one person and injured 19 others. that includes four children. the mayor of kyiv toured the rubble and said several schools

and six homes were also damaged. joining me now from kyiv, a "washington post" correspondent and an msnbc contributor. i'm glad you're here. so, the ukrainian national police are now reporting seven civilians were also killed in a mortar shelling yesterday. this happened in a residential area. it was in bucha on the outskirts of kyiv. talk about the situation right now in the city. >> reporter: well, it's a mixed picture actually, alex. definitely people are cared. they're worried -- they're really concerned that what they're seeing in other cities, such as kharkiv and mariupol, the intense bombardment happening there could happen here in the capital. and they're bracing for it all around the capital. you're seeing fortifications on highways and streets, sandbags, large tires, anti-aircraft guns on highways, anti-tank rockets being placed. every one of these checkpoints is a potential battle zone if

the russians push into the capital, and people are afraid, because there's a lot of residential areas around these fortifications. at the same time, you are seeing -- you are seeing, you know, rocket strikes, missile attacks happening over the past few days. many of them targeting these residential buildings, and the thing is, the casualties could be a much larger if it wasn't for the fact that nearly a third of the 3 million people who lived in the capital have fled. so many apartment buildings that are getting hit have half the people here but you're seeing tragic scenes, elderly people being pulled out on cranes, watching on the ground as their entire lives kind of vanish in front of their eyes. >> yeah. that is an extraordinary picture you're painting right there. i know that you have been reporting from two front lines on the outskirts of that city. the ukrainian military, they're certainly driving back the russian troops from getting to

the city center. what have you learned about their tactics and your sense of how much longer they can keep the russians out of the capital? >> well, the ukrainians are using very unconventional guerilla-style tactics to keep the russians at bay. they were supposed to have entered the city nearly three and a half weeks ago. they made a big push from an airport but the ukrainians stopped this through ambush-style attacks, digging trenches, waiting for the russians. but now that's what's happening, they're choosing opportunities to counterattack, and we're seeing a few of those around the capital where the ukrainians have actually started to take the fight to the russians whenever they have the opportunity. and the russians, you know, their supply lines have not been able to -- have been cut a bit. they are losing food and water in some places. there have been reports of russian soldiers surrendering because they've been lost in areas. they don't understand the terrain. and the ukrainians are using all

of these to their advantage. >> what about president zelenskyy? i mean, he has said repeatedly he's got no plans to leave kyiv. but with regard to diplomatic agreement, could anything -- is there a hope that could be achieved before literally street combat more towards the center of the city? >> right, well, part of this strategy that the ukrainians are using is to buy more time to make sure all the other pressures on vladimir putin is taking effect. the international sanctions, the diplomatic process, the moral outrage of seeing all these civilians killed, which the ukrainians are daily calling them as potential war crimes. all of this is having an impact on putin and to top that off, what's happening on the ground. the russians are struggling to advance. so all of these things, people of ukraine hope will push the russians to achieve some kind of diplomatic solution that would

be beneficial, particularly to the ukrainians. but at the same time, the russians are bombing cities. they're bombing different places. they're showing no signs of relenting even as they sit at the negotiating table. >> you say it's a war of attrition, which means what, that ukrainians are just slowly wearing down the russian military? are you seeing -- i mean, is that the plan? >> well, you know, what we're seeing is the ukrainians are not taking it to the russians in the open areas. they've retreated back to the cities, and they're -- right now, they're around kyiv, in places like irpin and where they've -- which is a key gateway to the capital and they've managed to stop the russians there. you're seeing this in other cities too, even cities that have been badly bomd by the russians, you're seeing a stiff resistance by the ukrainians around these cities. kharkiv, for example, the russians have bombed, you know, the hell out of that city, but they still do not control it. so, this is kind of strategy the ukrainians are using.

they're trying to hold the russians back to buy more time for all these other pressures to take effect. >> okay. thank you very much for chatting with us. i appreciate that. stay safe. continued good reporting from you. thanks. putting pressure on putin. european countries are hitting russia with steeper consequences and my next guest has been directly involved with those efforts. t guest has been directly involved with those efforts. maps that are mostly gaps— they're switching to t-mobile for business and getting more 5g bars in more places. save over $1,000 when you switch to our ultimate business plan... ...for the lowest price ever. plus, choose from the latest 5g smartphones— like a free samsung galaxy s22. so switch to the network that helps your business do more for less—join the big switch to t-mobile for business today.

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china could face severe consequences from the u.s. if it tries to aid russia with its invasion of ukraine. it comes after president biden sent a strong warning to chinese president xi jinping during a high-stakes phone call on friday. let's go to gary grumbach at the white house for us. do we know what china could be facing if its leaders decided to help russia? >> we don't and it's not for a lack of trying by our kristen welker and other journalists that really pressed press secretary jen psaki on this yesterday.

the white house said biden described to president xi the implications and consequences that would be involved if china did provide material support or weapons to russia. now, this was an incredibly important call for the president to make. senior administration official tells us it was a two-hour long call. it was direct and it was detailed. now, something president biden has been trying to do for weeks is to find a diplomatic solution to all of this, and he apparently made that very clear to the chinese president as well. we're told biden shared with the chinese president the u.s. viewpoint on all this and how the u.s. views this conflict between russia and ukraine. now, in the white house press briefing yesterday, press secretary jen psaki did also detail what the concern is on the white house's end as it relates to china. take a listen. >> i would say, you know, the movement of china to align with

russia or to -- yeah, the movement of them to align with russia or their proximity of moving closer together is certainly of great concern to us as we have expressed, and we are not the only country that has expressed that concern. >> reporter: now we're told conversations between the u.s. and china are continuing as this conflict overseas progresses, but for president biden, he's actually in delaware this weekend, enjoying some down time before he gets -- he has a really busy week next week. he's heading to brussels, belgium, where he's meeting with nato, g7, and the european council countries, all part of an allied commitment and show of force in support of ukraine. however, president zelenskyy of ukraine and the ukrainian people, what they want, it seems, is a no-fly zone. that's something the u.s. has been reluctant to say okay to. >> definitely. gary, thank you so much from the white house. as those efforts go on between the u.s. and china, ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy today keeping hope

alive and pushing for meaningful peace talks with russia, saying it's time to speak, time to restore ukraine's integrity. joining me now is a member of parliament. lisa, let's get to what president zelenskyy said as he spoke in that video address. he was referencing vladimir putin's rally in moscow. and he made another appeal to meet and negotiate an end to the war and here's the quote. just imagine 14,000 corpses and tens of thousands maimed people at that stadium in moscow. there are already so many russian losses as a result of this invasion. this is the price of war. lisa, do you think that russians are ever going to get that message? does it even matter? because putin is in complete control. >> well, we continue our feeling -- putin himself is in a

completely different reality. his reality is his own invented reality where he's a real fascist and he is fighting with invented evil that he believes that exists in ukraine. and he calls it as a protection of ukrainians from fascism, for example. but it's very interesting how you can protect by killing thousands of people. so, at this stage, of course, we are calling for an honest dialogue with russia, with putin, but at the same time, we understand that russia understands the language, of course, and strengths, and without military resistance, russia -- and putin is not going to listen, and even to be in a dialogue. >> yeah. look, the world knows that

putin's justification for this war is total fabrication. the whole world is seeing that. however, with regard to your trip to strasburg, france, this week, you voted with a council of europe committee to expel russia from its human rights body. that is, by the way, the first time a member state has been kicked out of that group. what does this mean for russia? what happens as a result of this? >> well, symbolically, it's very important, because the vast majority of countries in europe voted, condemning russian aggression, and we all agree that russia shouldn't be a part of the civilized world where human rights is a value. for russia, human rights is definitely not a value anymore. however, for russia, it seems like a joke. they don't take it very seriously. for them, it's just a new tool to sell to the audience to say that, oh, you see that the world

is trying to make an enemy from us, and they are doing the fascist or nazi work while we are protecting people. so, they keep selling completely artificial reality to russian society, and it's very sad, because we know that according to the polls, many russian people actually support war in ukraine. >> yeah. tell me what went through your mind as you were listening to president zelenskyy's speech before congress this week. he acknowledged it is unrealistic that ukraine will become a member of nato. do you agree with him? >> well, first of all, i'm incredibly proud of the president zelenskyy. of course, as the president of my country and in general as a human being. to be so brave and showing so much leadership in so hard times, it's unique.

regarding nato, unfortunately, as he also said, we were sure that the open door policy of nato means that the doors are open, but when we were trying to get into that door, that door actually is not open. but this is the moment to accept this reality and to build a alternative lines as the security alliances. of course, it can be done also in the partnership with nato, but with just acknowledgement that nato is not going to accept us right now. unfortunately. that's -- that's a bitter truth that we need to accept if we want to build our safe future for tomorrow. we are sure that it can be done only with the new, creative alliances with responsible governments and responsible states. >> what do you think about the negotiations between the kremlin and ukraine, reportedly including to allow an

independent ukraine to maintain its own military but only as long as it's committed to a neutral status, the kinds of things we see in switzerland and in austria. russia, though, is demanding that ukraine recognize the annexation of crimea along with the independence of two separatist controlled areas in the donbas region. so, what are the prospects of that being implemented into some sort of diplomatic solution? >> they cannot be any compromise on our territorial integrity. we are not going to give up any meter in a piece of the territory that belongs to ukraine. we are not going to recognize any evil, and of course, crimea is occupied and annexed and donbas as well, but crimea is ukrainian. donbas is ukrainian. they cannot be any compromise there. but regarding the neutral status, we are open for talks and for dialogue.

if there is a willingness and readiness from other international partners also to provide the real guarantees that our future and our borders will be protected. but i want to emphasize and to underline that it should be real security guarantees. and now, it's the main question, how can we make it happen? as soon as possible. >> yeah. lisa, let me ask you, would parliament -- ukraine's parliament, of which you are a member, would you have to approve any deals with russia or could president zelenskyy make that decision himself? >> well, i'm sure that we are united right now in our position, and of course, according to the law making process, we need to move some of the decisions that zelenskyy may take to show our solidarity and also to express our position. but i'm sure that we have no

problems with it and no differences because we are all united. no compromise on the human lives, no compromise on territorial integrity. neutral status, non-nato, is possible. but let's do it with guarantees. >> lisa yasko, very good to see you again. i hope i see you next weekend as well. thank you. vladimir putin's weapons of war now the hypersonic missile. what is it? why it's so menacing, and is there any defense against it? o s there any defense against it i brought in ensure max protein, with thirty grams of protein. those who tried me felt more energy in just two weeks! (sighs wearily) here i'll take that! (excited yell) woo-hoo! ensure max protein. with thirty grams of protein, one gram of sugar, and nutrients to support immune health.

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once upon a time, at the magical everly estate, landscaper larry and his trusty crew... were delayed when the new kid totaled his truck. timber... fortunately, they were covered by progressive, so it was a happy ending... for almost everyone. let's go now to the top stories we're following. four american service members are missing after a military aircraft crashed in norway last night. the marine osprey went down during a nato exercise amid bad weather. the country's prime minister and norway's military reports the american crew of four were killed. however, the pentagon has not confirmed those reports. in texas, crews today are

battling a deadly wildfire that's burned about 50 homes and killed at least one person. a local sheriff's deputy, barbara finley, died while helping people evacuate. governor greg abbott declared a state of emergency in 11 counties last night. moderna seeking approval for a second covid booster shot for all adults just days after pfizer requested emergency approval for a fourth dose of its vaccine for folks over 65. it comes as a subvariant of omicron called ba.2 is causing a rise in cases across europe. back to the breaking news from ukraine as russia is claiming it has used advanced hypersonic missiles to destroy a munitions warehouse today. joining me now to discuss russia's military capabilities is patrick tucker, defense one technology editor and a good friend to us. first of all, what are hypersonic missiles? >> a hypersonic missile is really any missile that travels

at five times the speed of sound but today that's understood to be a new class of hypersonic missile, different than the icbms of the cold war, a highly maneuverable missile that reaches a certain altitude around 200 to 2 to kilometers and then it maneuvers to evade advanced air defense systems the russian ministry of defense here claiming they've used one of these missiles in ukraine. about 100 kilometers from the romanian border. this one is called the dagger, and the use of this missile in this context is surprising because ukraine doesn't have the sort of advanced air defense systems that would merit the use of a missile like this, so what this seems to be is kind of an advertisement on behalf of the russian military that they have this capability, that they will use it within 100 kilometers of a nato country, and possibly

that they'll use this to target supply lines that are coming in from nato allies. there's been a big push this week to get new air defense systems into ukraine, so that's all part of their potential use of this weapon, which again, right now, we're relying on the russian ministry of defense's sourcing on whether or not they deployed it but we know from ukraine that the target was struck. >> okay. so, couple things there. obviously, they're sending a message and that's to your point. but when you say that these missiles are built to evade air defense systems, who has the air defense systems to target these missiles and get rid of them before they strike their targets? >> nobody. that doesn't exist yet. that capability to defend against highly maneuverable hypersonic weapons does not exist. >> the united states does not have the means to destroy these missiles before they reach their target? is that what you're saying? >> that's correct. yes. no country does. these are sometimes referred to

as invincible hissals. we are in the united states developing the means to at some point intercept these missiles using advanced lower orbit satellites that will track it as it maneuvers through that near space domain but that's the going to be possible within the next five years so right now, these are largely referred to as invincible, but there's also not a huge inventory of them. they're really small. this one is nuclear capable but certainly wasn't carrying a nuclear warhead if it was used. so there aren't a ton of these and it's hard to see how that affected the whole battlefield right now. >> okay. so how many of them do we know are in existence? and how lethal are they? not the nuclear capable ones. i don't want to get to that yet. i mean, how large a target can they strike and, you know, eviscerate the entire thing and from how far away? >> well, the thing with these missiles is that you can use them from a wide variety of different distances. and you can really use them from kind of one continent to

another. in this case, they're using it very close up. we aren't exactly sure how many there are, but these are a very small part of any inventory they have. i would be surprised if they had more than two or three, but of course, the russian ministry of defense would have the ultimate numbers on that. this is something that china is working on as well. they're also developing a wide variety of different hypersonic missiles but right now this seems to be sort of a way to showcase that this capability does exist for them and they are the first to deploy it in combat, which is sort of a grim milestone, but it's not going to be a big part of their strategy going forward in ukraine, i don't think. >> okay, but when you say they have two or three, at least to the best of your knowledge and u.s. intelligence's knowledge at this point, you're saying, then, they used one of them? they used one of them this week. >> yeah. well, and again, like those numbers are, right now, it's very difficult to say but this is a very small portion of their inventory. they don't even have a lot of precision guided munitions, like the sort of things that we were using in desert storm, which is

why you see the level of destruction in many cases like you're seeing in kharkiv. so they rushed to develop this. they rushed to deploy it, and they have deployed it, mostly to show that they did. but in many ways, this comes at a time where a lot of observers are commenting that the russian use of their air force has really been lacking, it's a part of the reason why they have had such stalls in their advance on key objective, so this seems in many ways mostly a publicity stunt, using this particular missile because you can really have targeted that facility using other means. >> okay. hey, patrick, i'm going to apologize because i had a bunch of other questions to ask of you, so i would love you to come back and speak to me about that, but this whole hypersonic missile thing, i had to pivot and ask a few questions that you may not have been expecting. thank you so much for answering that. i appreciate it. all good. meantime, just a few weeks ago, my next guest said people in moscow were panicking about the war. well, what about now? and as ukraine's president zelenskyy calls for direct talks

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as the russian military struggles on the battlefield and a growing number of civilians become victims in this war in ukraine, president vladimir putin appeared before thousands of flag-waving russians at a moscow stadium yesterday. it was a triumphant celebration of the eighth anniversary of russia's annexation of crimea. strolling that stage, he offered

his justification for russia's invasion of ukraine. >> joining me now, melinda haring. what do you make of putin's appearance yesterday? what he was saying there about -- referencing the holy scripture, greater love has no one but this, that he lay down his life for his friends, meaning that those russians were doing that for the ukrainians presumably? i mean, what do you think about that? and also about those who gathered in the crowd. >> alex, his statement is absolutely bonkers. i think that's the only word that i can come up with.

he said he compared the west to nazi germany and he claimed that ukrainians were committing genocide against ethnic russians. he's also wearing a $14,000 coat and quite an expensive sweater. there's all sorts of layers to this that we could analyze. there's also a technical cut when he gave the speech. he wasn't able to give this speech in full but the crowd that you're seeing in full has about 80,000 people before him. we don't know if people were forced to go. i haven't seen information on that yet. but you know, the crowds look pretty enthusiastic. it's pretty scary. but the actual line of argument, quoting from the scriptures is just bonkers. >> yeah. little over a week after this invasion began, you joined me here on the program. you told me that everyone is panicking in moscow, so if they were panicking then, what are they telling you now? has the panic increased or decreased or where does it sand stand? >> i think people are really disappointed. they're surprised that vladimir putin did do what he said he was going to do, you know, that he

went in, and i think they're horrified by the images coming out of mariupol. a lot of people don't believe them and there's a lot of good reporting on this. there will be mixed families, one sibling is russian, one sibling lives in moscow, one lives in kyiv, and they'll talk about what's happening to their parents in ukraine and the sibling in moscow will say, nonsense, mom's okay. and basically, russians don't believe the images they're seeing and the kremlin propaganda has all sorts of justifications and is claiming that these things are not happening. but i think many russians are horrified, especially by the images coming out of mariupol. we saw a big bomb there that went off at the theater, and in green letters, it said, "children." so it was clear there were children in that theater. >> yeah, that was pretty horrifying. i think there were two large displays of that word so they could not be mistaken from the skies, and yet, look what happenedment. let me ask you about president zelenskyy who is calling for direct talks with vladimir putin.

here's a bit of what he said in a video that was released yesterday. >> so, as of this morning, there was a turkish official that said putin's not ready to negotiate. so how likely is it that these two will sit down and talk? what seems like the most reasonable diplomatic solution that's even possible right now? >> so, alex, putin is not in a mood to negotiate, and i think we saw that in the speech that you just showed. he is insolent. he is angry. his back is against the wall. so, i don't expect any real negotiation soon. zelenskyy's pushing him, and he should continue to push him, but putin doesn't want to talk to zelenskyy directly and there's a lot of sticking points, so the ukrainians have said that they're willing to consider

freezing their nato aspirations or walking away from their nato aspirations. that's something they're willing to compromise on. but they said they will not compromise on territory. so, they are not willing to give crimea back to russia. they're not willing to give the donbas to russia either. so, these are the really hard sticking points, and no one knows how to get around them. >> so taking that a step further from zelenskyy's point of view, he said this week that ukraine has abandoned, more than freeze the ambitions to join nato. you never know what happened in the future but russia's lead negotiator said yesterday the two side were making progress on the question of ukraine adopting neutral status like that in sweden or austria, switzerland and the like. would this be something of a win? could putin take this, back off this brutal military campaign, and say, we got a win? >> yeah, he could, but you have to remember that the desire for nato membership in european

union membership is enshrined in the ukrainian constitution. so, even if they're willing to condition seed this at the negotiating table, i don't think it's a real desire of the ukrainian people. the ukrainian people are going to come back and ask for nato membership and eu membership. to your broader point, yeah, it could be considered a win for putin but it's not enough to convince him to stand down. he has put too much on the table, and he's lost too much. i don't think that's going to satisfy them. they want crimea to be recognized officially by the international community as russia, and they want part of the donbas. >> there's been discussion about saying, okay, we're not going go for nato right now, but we do want to achieve some sort of security guarantees. like what? what in that region could create a security guarantee for ukraine and help them avoid further russian incursion? >> so, the ukrainians are looking into all kinds of not nato agreements but, you know, security agreements with other western partners. and let's see what they can come up with.

so, at this point, these are just embryonic talks but i think there's a bigger issue, alex. so, in order for ukraine to agree to anything, in order for them to agree to back off on nato membership, they will have to have security guarantees from the west, which sounds obvious, but ukraine is not going to just accept any security guarantee from the west, given its history. ukraine was promised in 1994, it gave up its nuclear weapons in exchange for security guarantees from the united states and from britain and russia. and we betrayed them. so the ukrainians are going to make sure that those security guarantees are real this time and they're not going to concede easily anything. and they shouldn't. >> okay. melinda haring, always a pleasure. come see us again very soon. appreciate that. thank you. >> he's a controversial republican who said something about the war that drew outrage even from the house republican leader. publican lea leader so we're giving every business, our best deals on every iphone -

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new fallout today from a freshman republican's remarks about ukraine president volodymyr zelenskyy. north carolina congressman madison cawthorn taking heat from his own party. let's go to ali raffa on capitol hill for us. what are gop leaders saying about cawthorn's comments? >> reporter: this video has attracted a lot of attention here on capitol hill since it surfaced last week, and throughout the video, cawthorn refers to ukraine as corrupt and evil in addition to calling president zelenskyy a thug, as you mentioned. and this is an opinion that's extremely far from where the majority of the republican party, including house minority leader kevin mccarthy, view ukraine. listen to how he reacted to the video during a press conference yesterday. >> madison is wrong. if there's anything thug in this world, it's putin. this is atrocious. this is wrong. this is the aggressor. this is the one that needs to end this war. this is the one that everybody should unite against.

>> reporter: and alex, this is the latest example of a shift we're seeing on capitol hill, and it's one that's really challenging party leadership. you have some far-right republicans coming out in support of russian president vladimir putin and being more critical of ukrainian president zelenskyy, and this is coming as the republican party really tries to reset itself ahead of the midterms going back to pre-trump presidency ideologies to try to unite, and it's certainly -- they're saying that certainly that cawthorn's comments really don't help their cause, alex. >> yeah, sure doesn't. pretty stunning development there. thank you so much. that's going to do it for me on this edition of "alex witt reports." not ali raffa reports. my good friend yasmin vossoughian continues our coverage. continues our coverage for the lowest price ever. plus choose from the latest 5g smartphones. get more 5g bars in more places- switch to t-mobile for business today.

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♪♪ hey, everybody, good afternoon. great to see you. i'm yasmin vossoughian. it's 3:00 p.m. here in new york, 9:00 p.m. in ukraine where russia's invasion has, in fact, intensified. ukrainian officials saying russian forces have advanced in the besieged port city of mariupol as fierce fighting continues in multiple southern towns today. russia's military claiming they have used hypersonic missiles in combat for the first time to destroy an