what's happening on the ground? e ground >> indeed, i'm here in ukraine on a beautiful ukrainian land. unfortunately, many parts of ukraine are under fire. and nothing left from the beauty we are seeing three -- the situation is growing more and more severe. as i've been telling numerous times. more than 15 days of this resistance are the resistance of the ukrainian people, ukrainian nation. who faced severe attacks. basically, russia has committed nearly all possible war crimes, which humanity has seen over the second world war. the number of civilians victims is far more than observed from the armed forces of ukraine. it is absolutely essential that nobody's getting used to the war. we stand, we resist, and we will get stronger. regardless, any attempts of the russian federation, which has failed so far in its majority.

>> you see that the russians have failed, so far. but how much longer do you think ukraine can withstand this? >> we stand -- the enormous bravery of the ukrainian nation, people, army, government. it's something that we would expect from all leaders around the world. standing for the valleys enshrined in the un charter. that is why ukraine will resist as long as is needed. to make sure that no terror, no massive murder, no genocide, is committed on this land in the 21st century. but it is absolutely clear that only ukrainian army, and only ukrainian president, will not be able to withstand it alone. it's really important that all political leaders around the world, from the u.s. to the

european union and asia, stay united and establish the anti-war coalition. and only this joint effort will allow us to prevent this massive genocide and murdering in the 21st century. so far, ukrainian president, ukrainian army, leaves a space and time for the world leaders to get even more united, and to stop this aggression. we will stand as much as needed. >> so, you believe it is a genocide? de >> i absolutely believe it. i'm a lawyer myself. and i commit myself to the implementation of their decision. and recently, international court of justice -- national court of justice issued a ruling on the case of genocide. the russian federation against ukrainian population. and it has obliged the russian federation to suspend military operation and refrain from any military activity on our line. we know that the words and

rulings and orders mean nothing to the russian federation. but it is not something i presume, or anybody else resumes. this is the reality. putin and the kremlin are war criminals. they commit the war crimes. and they do the targeted attempts to attack the ukrainian population. you see by the -- he's using. so, it's not a question. it's the reality we all face in the 21st century. >> another reality, a group of ukrainian mps came to the british parliament this week. they were speaking about what's happened to women and girls in ukraine. the saying that they were being raped and executed by russian soldiers. i mean, it almost feels too terrible to talk about, but it feels very important to talk about. where are you hearing about what's happening to women and girls in ukraine? >> ukrainian our government are used to, before the war, gender

equality equality and women empowerment. and of course, the first five days of war, the horrible stories of women i've heard -- about women who have been raped or and murdered. about women and children who've been killed. my tears were ceaseless. but now i have strong aggression to make sure that each and every military criminal was committed this crime is held to account. that's why we have more than 2000 cases, criminal cases, opened in our prosecutors office. we have a permanent information on the international red cross organization. each and every soldier has committed these war crimes, by order or not, will be held accountable. be sure, russian soldiers, we will see it all. and ukrainian women's will stand for each other. and we will prevail. >> incredibly inspiring to hear you talk about this. really is. president zelenskyy has told

putin that now is the time to talk. how hopeful are you that there could be some kind of agreement? some kind of diplomatic solution? >> well, it's definitely not talking between a brotherhood nation. or big and small brother. ukraine is feeling absolutely open to any kind of talk. because we stand on our values. we are backed up by each and every nation. each and every citizen of ukraine. and we're united as never before. so, these talks me take place. hopefully they will lead us to some resolve,. we are truly happy that many of the european nations like israel, transatlantic nations and other countries have, initiated -- and show the willingness to facilitate the dialogue. of course, we realize all the opportunities. gently, i'm sure that ukraine will reach of the agreement on that peaceful settlement.

and also, will be a country who will have the guarantee of his security. not only from russian federation, but from other countries. >> what could an agreement look like? it feels as though it could be some movement on some nato. would it ukraine to be prepared to give up some territory to russia? >> absolutely not. ukrainian territory is a territory which has been made in 1991. with did its entire terry and internationally recognized border. it's not only the position of ukraine, it's the position of the whole world. in trended numerous decisions of the un security council. including the security council where russia was standing. so, it's not an option for discussion. of course, there might be room for discussion on the

reintegration of those territories that were under occupation for the last eight years. well there are a number of red lines, which are the -- two legitimize the unlawful, unprovoked military aggression and our territory. this is the red line for us. speaking of nato, as i'm leading the nato file and the ukrainian government, i can see that the political priority is still there. while the ultimate element of the agenda today is the cease-fire and security guarantee. so far, nato has not suggested anything in that first and second element of this piece from our side. that's why we are looking for those options which will assure our security. and withdraw russian forces from our territory. >> that's very clear. thank you. finally, we've been hearing some horrific reports coming out of mariupol.

shelters being bombed. the mayor says that citizens are being forcibly removed and taken to russia. what can you tell us about what is happening in mariupol? >> mariupol is basically the main city of all the tragedy and suffering are people are facing right now. -- while russian has tried to legitimize irrigation -- where they were blocked and it has been recognize. and absolute nonsense to take people to the territory of the country who started the aggression. now they do it forcibly. reaching the level of people suffering to the way that they already do everywhere. just to say more or less, out

of the bombing and the threat of their lives. of course, we call -- official sources of information from the un, icrc. who provide humanitarian assistance. please, ukrainian people. the people of europe stand with us. stand with the rule of law. and do not be subjected to manipulation from the russian federation. >> thank you. so much for being on the show. before we leave, i just want to give you the opportunity, if there's anything else that you would like to see to western leaders. your the voice of ukraine for us this morning. so, what would your message be? >> my message would be that, the spf brief as ukrainians. and utilize each and every minute of your time. we're keeping on the piece on your land.

to make sure that the aggressor and the terrorists is stopped. we deserve it as a nation. we deserve it as a people. and we all deserve it as europe. >> thank you so much for being on the program this morning. you're an incredibly powerful voice for your country. it's been very ported to listen to. thank you. >> thank you. as we just heard, it's more important than ever to try and get this clear picture as we can, of exactly what is happening in ukraine at the moment. especially of course, in the strategically important areas of the south. we are talking about the besieged city of mariupol. odessa is another critical one of these areas at the moment, in ukraine. we don't talk now to our correspondent, nic martin, who is in odessa for us. nick, thank you very much for speaking to us. what is the situation like where you are? >> odessa is a key port city.

and it's being very heavily defended and fortified now. the last few days, we've been aware of reports of a russian military, naval buildup of warships on the black sea coast, just off odessa. it's a sight that the residents of the cities that the threat looks now on the horizon. thankfully, the city has not seen anything in the way of attacks. certainly nothing on the scale of mariupol and mykolaiv, just to the east of here. but having said that, it is widely regarded to the something of an inevitability that the conflict will come to odessa. it is strategically such a keyport. for the people who are trying to flee this war, it is a long journey. but these people from the odessa region have come with their belongings and they're now waiting for buses to take

them across the moldovan border. some of these people are from odessa, some are from the wider region. but all of them share one thing in common, and that is they are just not confident about skincare anymore. it is just too dangerous. and everywhere you see acts of kindness. this is a local church putting some food out. crackers and some coffee. this is what keeps these people going. because this is a very horrendous time for people. the un has issued some astonishing figures about the amount of people who are now internally displaced in ukraine. six and a half million people are now away from their homes, cast out into this country. and a lot of them are already trying to figure out where they're going to live for the next few months. possibly even years. for people who live in mariupol, that is a city -- and i've been seeing pictures coming through the last few days -- that's a city that's just been pounded and pounded, until there is nothing left. the images are just so

desperately said. today, we've had reports that 400 people who were hiding in a shelter at the local art school are now -- because a bomb struck that place last night. that comes after barracks were struck yesterday, while soldiers swept. and a few days before that, the theater which was being used as a shelter was struck. so, it's just a desperate, desperate situation. places like odessa are holding their breath now, trying to figure out when the attack will come. and how bad it will be. one thing to say though, odessa is a very well defended city. the other night, we heard a russian missile had been fired towards where we are. and the defense missile had been sent back and exploded it. perhaps that will give people some hard here about how well they can be defended or not. they are looking at their leaders, politically. they're looking at leaders like

president zelenskyy, who from the very start is trying to communicate with his population by a social media. and that leadership has filtered down to the regional governments here. the klitschko brothers in kyiv. on social media, every day, trying to rally their own people. these political leaders, regional political leaders, and become heroes, in trying to give the people here who are scared some information about what might happen. where they can go for help. so, the political system here has rallied to try and give support to these kind of people here. who have nowhere else to go. but what they do know is they are fleeing a war and they can't get away from it quick enough. these people across the border and mueller later today. that is a small country that is absolutely full. if they get to pull in, that's full. warsaw, all the capitals, krakow. so, it is a refugee crisis that

we haven't seen since the second world war. sooner or later, you will have to try and come up with a long term plan in which to try and cope with this huge migration. sophie? >> thank you, nick. i have to see just looking at the faces of those people behind you -- i should say, holding their breath. waiting to see if what's happening in mariupol is gonna happen in odessa. packing their bags and waiting. it's an incredible powerful image for us. so, thank you very much for bringing us that update. nick martin. thank you. we'll have more on the situation in ukraine in just a few minutes. talking about the military side of things. but i do have something else to talk to you about this morning. because we're launching a new program later in the spring. i want to tell you about. it's called the take, with sophie ridge. it's gonna be live every wednesday evening at 9 pm. this is in addition to the sunday show. it's a chance for us to take a political temperature.

we have to prime ministers question earlier in the day. a thing i'm most excited about as well, is not just speaking to government mrs. ministers and the opposition party. we're going to be talking to you, as well. this is the idea. we want to get your reaction. because we're searching for regular sky news viewers to take part in the program and give us your opinion. if you want to be considered, them to please email the take with sophie ridge at sky dot uk. it's on your screen now. the take with sophie ridge at sky dot uk. just include a couple of lines about your self. what your politics. our particular interest you have. more information on life online. if you are nervous, the worry will guide you through. also, our podcast is back. if you scan the qr could on your screen right now, you can find the sunday podcast. then that will subscribe you solely in your feed each week. there will be highlights of interviews, analysis, and

insight in how -- you can find that at subscriber ever you get your podcasts. you can just search for sophie ridge on sunday. and it should be available later today. back of course to the destruction brought on ukraine -- by the relentless attacks from russia. the shelling and air strikes on those early years has been a tactic previously used by moscow in chechnya and syria. to try and break the will of local populations. ukrainian government is also accusing russians of blocking aids blaze trying to get into besieged cities. we're joined now by ear marshall, philip or a spoon. former chief of defense intelligence. director at universal defense. thank you so much for being with us. with three weeks now into this invasion. what is the state of putin's troops?

>> i think it's fair to say that demoralize. pretty stark, pretty stalled. they're poorly prepared. they've been proven to be inadequate. that's putting it mildly. they're still because they've lost momentum. so, we're seeing them pour resources, manpower, from across russia. even from syria. that's not a good indication for a supposed superpower. and they're stalled because they're running out of options. i'm really, was left of them now is to double down on brute force. to put pressure on the ukrainian government. >> so, this is the worry. that even if the ukrainian resistance has been more than anyone could've anticipated. even if the russian forces are demoralized, do you think it is brute force that we're going to see more of? >> i think it is. russia's trying to be agile, and that's failed.

they weren't up to it. so, now they're faced with how does it get the ukrainian government to settle on terms which are far more favorable to russia, to putin? and this is all about putin. and therefore, the way they apply pressure to the ukrainian government is to level cities. to bring in huge artillery. to try and generate that humanitarian pressure, just not on the government, but on the civilians. >> so, are you worried that putin could start using weapons we don't usually see in these kinds of conflicts? chemical weapons, for example? even the so-called test of a nuclear? how far could it go? >> i think we will see more conventional firepower first. russia has huge artillery stocks and this is now a long, drawn out conflict. >> and they can be devastating as well, right?

>> exactly right. so, we will see lots of conventional -- but the risk of more unconventional, whether the chemical, whether the bio, or even nuclear -- that risk must be higher. the comeback to putin does not have many military options. and they're there for his options to escalate or an hour. >> and of course, this has an impact on how the west responds. >> it does. lewis has got a challenge. it has got to strike a balance between trying to deter beefy of your without excessively escalating. so, this is a really difficult tightrope to walk. but we have to be strong. we have to be resolute. putin does not respect weakness. he sees us as. week he sees us as decadent. he knows every time he pushes us, we take a step back. so, he would've been surprised by the overwhelmingly strong

sanctions that have been leveled against him. you'd be surprised by the willingness of the west to support the ukrainian government and their armed forces. but it's not enough. so, there's something about the west needed to reset what it means about strength and resolution, and order to deter further aggression. >> so what does that mean? and practical terms? what do you think we should do? >> there's a thing for the uk and i think for the west more broadly. the west needs to be less reveal. in needs to be more strategic. and needs to be more resolute in the way that we've seen over the last few weeks. but we weren't seeing over the previous ten, 15, 20 years. i think the -- from the uk perspective is a good start. but what this demonstrate is the security isn't about soundbites, it's about doing difficult things. and being focused on

maintaining those difficult things. so the integrated review, yes, it's a good start. we need more mass and capability. we certainly need more digital capabilities. and we need really as a nation to be more resilient. that's both physically. are we good at cyber-resilience? but also in the way we are, in the strength of our society. what do we feel? the most important thing though, is we've got to go quickly. this is a wake up call. you we can look at the integrated review, that is a ten year horizon. that is to. long >> do we need more money? when i spoke with the chancellor earlier, he was just talking about the money that he's already given to the ministry of defense. and i got a very clear impression that we should expect anymore. >> the chancellor will make the

decisions that he needs to make. if you ask somebody nearly 40 years in the uk military -- so, it needs sustained investment to allow us to protect that nation. but also, from the uk military point of view, to take part in a far more strengthened nato. for germany to come out 100 billion euros in one year, i think in this case the scale of the challenge for western nations to follow. and i'm sure the uk would want to plates. part >> and i just want to draw us back to the situation that we're seeing unfolding in ukraine. the bombardment has been pretty relentless. it seems that we should expect more of the same. how long, realistically, do you think ukrainians can withstand this? >> they have been amazing. but we need to bear in mind that they have been preparing for this for most of the --

for ukraine, this started nearly a decade ago. so, they've had time to prepare. that's the resilience i was talking about. they've also got a strength of will and the application of good weaponry. which i think we're seeing. frankly, i think they will hold out as long as we can supply them. as long as their morale holds up. and those are two very easy things to say. but really challenging to do. focusing on supporting a brief people, doing what's right for them, has to be one of those things that the west does tissue strength and resolution. >> and president zelenskyy has said it's time to talk peace. he's called russia to come to the table and find a diplomatic solution. in the uk, our foreign secretary has effectively said she doesn't trust russia. she thinks it could be a smoke screen to allow russia to regroup and carry on more attacks. what is your sense about how

optimistic you are that and if these talks could actually lead to a solution? >> i'm quite pessimistic in the short term. two things have to line up. ukraine has to be comfortable to give something up. >> which to be honest, with our interview with ukrainian deputy prime minister, she said that was absolutely off the table. >> and you can understand why that's the case, because thousands of ukrainians are laid out their lives as we speak for that sense of self. so, what is ukraine prepared to give up was putin prepared to accept from the perspective of a paranoid individual? until those two things get close, then there will be an agreement. and i can't see those things getting close. >> i understand the pessimism that you have. just finally, ukraine is also asking for other countries to effectively act as a security guarantors for a peaceful. so effectively, if they end up agreeing to not join nato and

they sign some kind of deal, they want the assurance that they will be backed up if russia tries to invade them in the future. do you think the uk should be prepared to give that assurance to ukraine? and what would that mean? >> the green has a security guarantee already. it was given in 1994 by the u.s., uk and russia. and where we now? so, if i was a ukrainian, i want to be really clear that that security guarantee -- than 20 years ago. those type of things, i'm sure, we'll have to be part of a solution. but if i was a ukrainian, i would want to see the color peoples money. and that brings you back to resolution and meaning what you say. not going through the motions. >> really interesting talk. thank you so much for being with us today. that's it for this week's sophie rich on sunday.

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ridge on sunday. the take will be having a pause to reflect on what we've been hearing over the last hour. a really busy show today. of course, the latest on that horrific situation in ukraine. it feels like with every morning that you wake up, there's more terrible news to come out of that country. today, we were also focusing on what is happening here in the united kingdom, because clearly, the sanctions we've made on russia -- that is on top of rising inflation at the cost of living

crisis that was already on the way. things are going to be very difficult for people. next week, the chancellor will be sending out his spring statement. he was on the program today, along with his opposition partner, -- i was really trying to get a bit of a sense on what we can expect next week. so it's hard with these interviews, because there's only so much they can say. i thought we did get a bit of a sense from the chancellor on a few of his priorities, and also how leveling people can be. on the show, as always, we're joined by our deputy political editor who i can bring in now. sam, hello to you. good to see you. i can see you smiling, as you always do on a sunday morning. it was a pretty pessimistic message, wasn't it? >> it was. it's remarkable that ever since

he was appointed, surprisingly, in january 2020, it's effectively been a crisis chancellor. -- who was physically quite conservative, in other words, he looks to cut were possible, be that public spending or taxes. as you demonstrated very clearly by showing him the graph of what is been up to for the last few years, he hasn't been able to do that. there's been the pandemic, now there's the war in ukraine. whether it's -- racial reeves for labor, you do have to give them some breathing space. the decisions that they are facing, the decisions that the country is facing, as a result of the pandemic, and now the war in ukraine, are very difficult. they are very important. as you say, on wednesday, we get the spring statement. now, two weeks ago, my sense from the treasury was that this

was a little more than an update. they wanted to tilt the tenor a little bit. they weren't planning any big announcements. what's become clear, was become horribly clear over the last two weeks, the pressures on people are just enormous. on friday, at the start of the spring conference, i left the conference to go to the soup kitchen. there, the person who runs it said, he set it up to help the homeless. now, he's helping families and people in work. the situation just in the last month has gotten so much worse because of inflation, energy bills, food prices. this is the cry says that the chancellor has the tackle. as you say, sophie, i think you did a great job of getting some of the hints, some of the contours of what we're going to see on wednesday in that interview. he doesn't have analysts amounts of money to play with,

so the question is, does he live up to his promise to stand by the british people? >> i was quite surprised, in a way, how firm he was when he made the promise to stand by the british people. he, of course, many people remember, was the one who stepped in during the pandemic. i don't think we're expecting to see anything on that scale of intervention, but i think he did lay some groundwork to do something. welcome back to in a moment. let's hear a little bit from where she sunak, shall we? he was trying to level with people and tell people that these sanctions are going to have an impact, here in the uk. let's have a listen. >> i won't be able to know. i will stand by them that i have done in the last couple years to try and make a difference where i can. but, as you said, the actions, the steps are taking to sanction russia are not cost free for here at home. i can't pretend that it's going to be easy, that the government can solve every challenge, or that i can completely protect

people against some of the difficult times ahead. when i can say, where we can make a defense, of course we will. that's what we've done over the past few years. >> where we can make a difference, we can. he's obviously going to do something. as you say, it was expected to be no more than an update, talking about the economic situation, but my impression was that we are going to see something big. >> that's right. where the treasury is gearing up to do something is perhaps help with the benefit system, maybe to take the edge off that thing that the government has chosen to do to the british people. -- insurance increase on employees and employees. even within the -- boris johnson has done it in order to try and funnel more money into the nhs, and then eventually social care. it's coming in the next few weeks, just as all of these high prices are going to hit.

the chancellor has a number of options, when it comes to what is biggest rabbit out of a hat is. he could cancel that altogether, he does have the money, it's about nine or ten billion quid. -- the nhl spending becomes impossible. he could just, sort of, less in the -- more you could do a big rise in the system for universal credit. those are the kinds of options. if he's being moderately generous, he will be spending somewhere in the region of nine or ten billion pounds, which is, as you pointed out, a quarter of the 40 billion that he has to play with. nevertheless, i'd expect an intervention on that scale on wednesday, otherwise he's going to come under some fire from his own side for not giving sufficient help. >> thanks, sam.

one of the areas that he's under pressure on -- you seen other countries making a move on this. for example, france, ireland, they move to get help on those rocketing fuel costs. so it's funny with these interviews because you're trying to get a little sense and he's a few lines out. my sense was, this is a man who's very tightlipped in these pre-budget, pre-spending statement interviews. the fact that he talked a little bit about fuel duty, and his constituency, and understanding how hard things were, that made me feel that there could be better. let's listen to what the shadow chancellor and the chancellor had to say. >> i have a rural constituents who. people are incredibly reliant on the cards. this is one of the bills -- we're all saying that. when we're filling up our cards, i get that. that's why we frozen fuel duty, and announced that. it's the 11th consecutive year of fuel duty freezes. >> if the chancellor reduces fuel duty, you won't stand in

his way. even a five p reduction in fuel duty will only reduce filling up the car with petrol by two pounds. i don't think that really rises to the scale of a challenge that we face at the moment. which is why, we're calling for a windfall tax on the big profits being made. labor saying they wouldn't stand in the way of any fuel duty. there's been a bit of a pick up for some of these comments on fuel duty. this is the son's political correspondent, natasha clark. she tweeted, she knack gave a bit of ankle on the field or the cut. that's the impression i got as well. we'll have to wait and see. a few more days, but it does feel as if there could be something there. let's bring in some coax again. sam, do you think that it'll be enough to try to calm the bubbling exactly that we're trying to see with the

conservatives, about to hit their constituents are coming with? you >> know. even if you take just a fuel duty issue, one of the reasons why where she sunak -- whenever the price of fuel goes up. walking past petra pumps yesterday, diesel was up at one 80, one 85. i was on my way from blackpool. that's an eye watering amount, that directly translates to peoples food costs. it's diesel that needs to go into the lorries that brings peoples food to the supermarkets. there's an impact all over the place. a little bit here, in a little bit there may well not -- the big driver, the thing with the treasury notes, the big driver of peoples bills going up our energy prices. that's a hundreds of pounds

that people have to shelter on their energy bills coming in next month. the problem is, there is a widespread expectation on top of the 600 or so pounds a year that they're going to have to pay from april. the crisis in ukraine is going to increase energy bills, perhaps by an additional 1000 pounds. not sure exactly how much it is -- by, in august and implemented in october. the sum, frankly in terms of household budgets, are unimaginable. people are losing somewhere in the region of 1000 pounds in their household income and is coming financial year. that's expectation. entire percentage points of their spending money disappearing, as a result of things completely out of their control. when it comes to those energy bills, it is indicate that people can simply, for instance, turned down the thermostat, turn around the heating,

because a big part of everybody's bills it's going up, are those standing charges that you can't really do anything about. that goes to pay for the insurance scheme that kicks in when energy companies go bust, and for some of those green charges. that's a huge political fight on many fronts. i don't think that this spring statement on wednesday is the end of the matter, by any means. i think this is just going to be the topic of >> 2022. thank you, sam. it does feel, you can understand why richie sunak perhaps fell -- why he fell slightly aggrieved at the tax spending. because he's not only had to this cost of living crisis to deal with. but also, of course the covid situation to. his argument for his defense, if you like, for why he's putting taxes on a time people feel like this dramatic cost of living squeeze is that they need to sort the long term

funding for the nhs. and also, social here. what is labor decision -- do they agree with the taxes? this is what chancellor rachel reeves had to say. >> we now know that there is going to be no new money for social here in this parliament. then they said it was to reduce nhs waiting times. that there's no credible plan to do that in this parliament. the problem with national insurance is that it's attacks on work. it's a tax charging by those people who go to work every day, and those people who employ them. some of the richest people in our country, who earn an income through dealing in stocks and shares, or through a portfolio of properties, they won't pay a penny more in taxes with a national insurance rice. that's not right. it's not right that ordinary, working people should be footing the bill. >> let's bring in our political editor, sam. rachel reeves --

it's strange to hear labor attacking conservatives for a tax rate to pay for the nhs. it is feel like uncharted territory here. >> and on this, i know plenty of conservatives that would agree with rachel reeves. look, i challenge jacob -- to defend the national insurance rice. he declined to do through and said it was a matter for the chancellor. i've been talking to big donors who worry that money going in to help the nhs isn't going to deliver the results people want, in this parliament. that's exactly what rachael reeves just said. so, labor making an argument but also punching a conservative bruise. >> some, thank you very much. we'll have more from some after the break. because will also be looking at what richie sunak had to say about the situation in ukraine. and of course, the prime minister's slightly controversial comments to spring conference, yesterday, when he appeared to be comparing it to the vote to leave the eu.

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welcome back to sophie ridge. we have a moment to take you back through the mornings interviews. we get a bit of analysis with our deputy political editor, sam coats. sam, of course was at the conservative spring conference yesterday. there was a couple of controversial things the prime minister said on stage. just explain to us what he said and how it went down in the whole? >> yes, we were up in black pool yesterday for the spring conference speech by the prime minister. and he went a bit further than some expected. he dedicated a lot of his speech to the conflict and ukraine. but part of that speech, he was drawing analogies between the freedoms that people want and ukraine and the freedoms that he has championed in britain. and he singled out the vote for

brexit in that. now, that has subsequently drawn a lot of criticism from, not just, i have to say, political opponents. but also people inside the conservative party. one person message me this morning saying they thought it was inappropriate. theresa may's former chief of staff has also criticized. someone has gone on court record to criticize it. this is something of a storm, because people think that was inappropriate. then there was a second thing that perhaps raised even more eyebrows. he alleged that had labor been in power, then they would have basically waked up the white flag to president putin. a serene essentially surrender. that was his allegation. of course, infuriating labor. they have done a very clear job of showing and saying that they stand with the prime minister on the nato action against president putin. so, many angered by those comments.

boris johnson, of course, has a habit of doing this kind of thing. but not everybody in his own party likes it. i have to say, afterwards talking to activists, they were delighted with the speech. this kind of stuff -- the people who were in the whole listening to it. >> quite an important point to make. how it did go down with the activists. there i did ask richie sunak about his reaction to what the prime minister had to say about ukraine and then the brexit vote. let's have a listen to the chancellor said. >> the situation are obviously not analogous. what does a democratic referendum in a country where we're able to debate ideas in peace -- >> but we wanted to join the eu? >> and of course, that is the. right that's part of the situation that putin finds -- for him he doesn't like the idea at all. the idea of expression of freedom. i think, they're not a direct

directly analogous situation. i don't believe the prime minister was saying they were either. >> it is utterly distasteful and insulting to compare the fight for freedom and the aggression of the russian state to that decision to leave the european union. it is insulting to the ukrainian people, who are fighting for their very freedom and their very lives. and it's insulting to the british people as well. if the prime minister didn't mean that analogy, he shouldn't have made it. and he should take back those words and apologize to the ukrainian people and the british people, for those cross remarks he made yesterday. i'm not going to take any lessons from this prime minister about standing up to the russians. this is a prime minister, who on the eve of the invasion of ukraine, was whining and dining people who are close links to putin's regime. >> rachel reeves, they're giving her reaction. we bringing some twitter reaction as. well this is one of boris

johnson's old adversaries. i think you're pretty and surprised to see the lack from david gore, a former conservative minister. who campaigned for remain. he said, imagine being a serious, decent conservative mp and, having to a defense that prime ministers ukraine, brexit or marks. no wonder richie sunak looks uncomfortable. david glock. let's bring sam coats back in, shall we. sam, i just want to draw you to the very final question i asked richie sunak. because it does feel to me like this demonstrates just how far the political landscape has changed, in a matter of months, if not weeks. i asked him, will boris johnson move the conservatives into the next election. and he gave me a one word answer, which was, yes. do you think that any talk of boris johnson effectively resigning as leader or potentially a challenge from someone like richie sunak, has that all gone? has it disappeared? or is it -- >> richie sunak said yes to

you. partly because i think he's right. the context has changed for boris johnson's predicament for his future. he is safer than he was a few weeks ago. he also said it, because frankly, if he said anything else he wouldn't be the job of chancellor for much longer. but richie sunak himself is in an interesting position. he dealt with the question of what boris johnson johnson said yesterday by basically asserting boris johnson didn't really mean it. and you could see, i think, that discomfort on richie sunak's face. it's not his kind of politics. this is not that kind of where he likes to fight political battles. there were reports a few days ago that richie sunac even considered resigning at the heart of partygate. if that was the case. but i know he was the plea unhappy the way the government was being run. a perception of the lack of seriousness. now, that was partly about partygate. pandemic rule breaking. all the way through 2020, 2020.

-- the official report into what went on. but the question for mps really was always can force johnson be trusted? does he follow the rules? and if he's clocked out, is he straight with people? jessie and buses suspected of lying to parliament? the war and ukraine has changed the conversation and context. and you can come away from the spring conference thinking anything other than the people there who were judge, jury and executioner, -- are a lot happier than they are. but the bigger picture picture questions will always remain. having had that damage done to him, having had those questions raised about him, is boris johnson plain sailing all the way through to 2023, 20 4:24 election? or the sort of things that led to that point that keep coming back. >> yes, the other thing to throw into is the fact that we

are about to see a cost of living crisis that we haven't seen for generations. people getting poorer. and it's difficult to see a situation where the governing party doesn't at least to some extent, pick up some blame for that. >> that's right. when people get poor, they justify justifiably look at the government to potentially get more angry. i think people in the good times might take one view of their politicians, but they're perhaps altogether are less but nelly benevolent in their conclusions when they're particularly hurting in the next few weeks months. >> thank you very much for analysis, as always. deputy political editor, sam coats there. that is it from sophie ridge on sunday. this morning, a really busy show. of course, we've got a busy week coming up politically as well, with that statement from richie sunak. how much your support will their be from people in the united kingdom in the -- who are undoubtedly going to be

experiencing economic pain in the months to come? see you next week. i don't live here, so i'm taking this and whatever's in the back. it's already sold in the us. but i'm not taking any chances. the uk's best kept skincare secret. this is sky news at ten.

the headlines. the chancellor -- national insurance as, the cost of living prices rise. the situation made worse by developments in ukraine. >> the steps we're taking to sanction russia are not cost free for us here at home. i can't pretend that it's going to be easy, that government can solve every challenge, or that i can completely protect people against some of the demo