forces have recaptured a key suburb of kyiv. however, the battle intensifies for the strategic city of mariupol refusing to back down. ukraine, again, rejected russia's ultimatum to surrender. we'll break down by that seaside port is so important. and with russia having failed to secure a quick victory, president biden says vladimir putin is now considering chemical or biological weapons in ukraine, and cyber attacks against the united states. the u.n. says the number of refugees who have fled the violence now stands at more than 3.5 million people. we're going to break down all that is at stake as president biden prepares to travel to eastern europe this week to meet

with nato allies. good morning, and welcome to "morning joe." it is tuesday, march 22nd. good to have you back, willie. we'll dive right in. ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy remains defiant in the face of russia's demand for ukraine to surrender the besieged city of mariupol. in a new televised address yesterday he said surrender was never an option, and that russia would "first have to destroy us" to get their ultimatum fulfilled. russian forces have said they will only allow civilians who evacuate if ukraine forces lay down their weapons. the seizure of mariupol would give the russians control of much of ukraine's southern coast along the key sea of azov. >> meanwhile, russian forces open fire on peaceful citizens

in the city of kurson. [ chanting ] [ gunfire ] >> so russian forces previously fired in the air. warning shots, to disburse the crowd. ed video you saw there shows russian forces attacking civilians directly yesterday. kherson was the first major ukrainian city to fall to russia earlier this month. since the site of continuous demonstrations to protest the russian occupation. president zelenskyy addressed the violence with a message on social media writing, "we will never forget these shots," mika? >> no. ukrainian officials say more than 70 houses were destroyed along with a shopping center in an attack in the capital of kyiv. at least eight people were killed when russian missiles hit the multiplex on sunday that

housed a movie theater and restaurants. it was some of the worst violence in the capital city that it's seen since the invasion began. this as the ukraine military is warning residents across the country that they should brace for more intense russian shelling. ukraine says russian forces also shelled a humanitarian corridor in southeastern ukraine wounding four children who were among the civilians being evacuated. joining us now live from kyiv, nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel. richard, what more can you tell us? >> reporter: so, mika, you mentioned one of the big developments today. ukrainian forces managed to take an area on the outskirts of kyiv. all morning we've been hearing gunfire, some explosions around the edges of this city. we can't go to it right now, because there is a blanket curfew in place, so people are not allowed to go out on the

streets, and that plan applies to journalists as well. we are only allowed to go out if heading to a bomb shelter, from our vantage point here, we can certainly hear the gunfire and the explosions. it seems that ukrainian forces and ukrainian forces have said this is their strategy, are trying to prevent russian troops from encircling the capital, and so far they have been able to keep russian troops at bay in the north. in the northwest and in the northeast, but they, the russian troops are trying, we are told, to spread out their lines and to come and push in to the city from other angles, but so far they have not been successful. a lot of attention here on what happened in kherson yesterday. i think that moment is serving to inspire many ukrainians. kherson is a russian-speaking city, held by russian troops for weeks now. it was considered before the war

to be a pro-russian city. a pro-russian population. a bit like several parts of the south, close to the russian border, but there, despite its russian-speaking heritage, people are out on the streets facing down russian soldiers and then having to be disbursed by force with russian troops firing in the air, injuring at least four people, according to medics. >> nbc's richard engle. thank you very much for your reporting live on the ground. joining us now pentagon correspondent for the "new york times" helene cooper is back with us. national political reporter for axios, jonathan swan joins us, and former nato commander chief information security and diplomacy analyst for nbc news and msnbc. >> and admiral, thank you for being with us. let's start where richard engel finished.

obviously it was the conclusion of vladimir putin and those around him that, before this began, they would at least be greeted as liberators in russian-speaking areas, close to the russian border. and yet some of the most intense fighting, and the protests, are taking place in areas that are russian-speaking. we've been talking so much about mariupol, and how the people are that, that city just will not give in. it's right on the russian border. this suggests, obviously, again, a long, hard slog ahead, if the russians are ever going to gain any sort of foothold inside of russia. what are your thoughts? >> you've got it right, joe, and, you know, the great military strategist carl von kloswits said the center of

gravity is about which all else revolves. center of gravity. clearly, it's the will and spirit of the ukrainian people. you know, joe, to put it in american context, vladimir putin had to pick one state to invade. he invaded texas. up know, it's well armed. the people have an extreme sense of independence, and mariupol is becoming the alamo. they're going to be talking about it 200 years from now the way we talk about the alamo from almost 200 years ago. i think that russia has deeply miscalculated, and instead of being greeted with flowers they're being greeted with bullets. so plan a. has clearly stalled out, and so what does putin do now? kind of goes to plan b., and plan b. is 15 century warfare, just circle these cities, pound them into dust, and try and break the will and the spirit of the ukrainian people. last thought. it's personified in president

zelenskyy. he needs to take risk, but prudent risk. he's become very central to this. we need to be giving him the intelligence, the cyber over-watch, the assets he needs in order to maintain that will of the ukrainian people that center of gravity. >> admiral, you've seen it from your position in and out of the united states armed forces that civilian leaders in our country, civilian leaders across europe, have underestimated vladimir putin time and again, and what he would be willing to do, to reconstitute this young man's dream of a vast russian empire. we underestimated him in georgia in 2008. we did it again in 2014, in crimea. we did it again in 20 in syria.

aleppo, constantly underestimated him. a lot of people thought he would try to go into kyiv. again, more americans, more westerners underestimated this guy. he's now talking about chemical weapons, nuclear weapons. i believe him. i believe him. so the question is -- what does the united states do? what does nato do? what red lines do we draw? what warnings do we make to let him know that the costs would be so high if the united states and nato, they will not just stand on the polish side of the border if he starts using nuclear weapons or chemical weapons against the people of ukraine? >> this is exactly why the president correctly is going to brussels and then will go to poland. and in brussels, with our nato allies, with the other 29 nations of nato, i think you're going to see an extremely strong

forward posture laid out, joe. and what that means is, flooding nato forces, forward to those borders, to provide the alliance options. and, frankly, to send a signal to vladimir putin that we will defend every inch of this alliance. in order to do that, the president and his team, jake sullivan et al. are laying the groundwork for all of this and also, joe, why you hear the president pointing out vladimir putin, war criminal. mentioning specifically chemical weapons. putin needs to understand that it's not impossible he could end up like milosevic, and the more we send that signal as an alliance, sending it together, the more it will resonate. having said all that, unfortunately, i agree with you. we have underestimated the audacity of vladimir putin, and i think chemical weapons and

obviously nuclear weapons are, in fact, a new escalation that will require even more dramatic response. i think that's the point where you begin to seriously think about a no-fly zone, a nato no-fly zone, and you start to seriously think about a nato peacekeeping force coming into the country. we're not there yet. let's hope we don't get there, because that confrontation head to head between russia nuclear armed, nato nuclear arms is a confrontation we quantity to avoi. >> obviously he's already shown in the last month he's happy to cross over these lines, bombing hospitals, and a theater that housed refugees including children clearly marked. meanwhile, a senior nato official tells "nbc news at sunrise," belarus may try to help russia get the upper hand in ukraine as the war, this official says, rapidly approach as stalemate saying belarus may

soon also attack ukraine allowing russian to position its nuclear weapons on its soil. voters in belarus approved a ref random banning the non-nuclear status and already allowed russia to use its territory as a military staging ground. the senior nato official says ukrainian forces are successfully preventing russia from making any progress, but putin's refusal to back down, despite military failings means no one will win. that follows a similar assessment from researchers published in the institute of the study of war just last week. so helene cooper, putin does have allies along the border of ukraine. namely belarus. what would it mean to have belarus escalate this to in fact not just to help russia but to step in to the war itself? >> hi. i think it's, i think that would be a big step, but frankly given the performance of the russian military, i don't really think the ukrainian military's going

to be very afraid of the belarusians. i think they've been, there's been a fear for weeks now that belarus would also join this, but, join this campaign, and i think that's -- while it's a big deal i don't think it's the be all and end all, because once again you're going to see likely the same sort of performance that we're seeing from the russians. these are going to be forces, these are going to be foreign troops who are not necessarily fighting for their own land. when you look at what we're seeing on displace right now is will. is, you're seeing the national will of ukraine. you're seeing the exact opposite of what we saw during the afghanistan breakdown last year, and you're seeing what national will and what a people who are willing to put their lives on the line for their country are going to do.

so what are the -- you know, belarus has already basically joined the conflict anyways since they've allowed the russian military free passage through their land and the russian air force is conducting air strikes on ukrainian tarts from belarusian air space. they're sticking to russian airspace and belarusian airspace, because they're afraid to enter ukrainian air space. they go in ukraine and get shot down because that area is still contested. belarus as far as i'm concerned is already in this war, and i think you'll just see this continuing to exacerbate. one point earlier that i would like to take up is the idea of the underestimation of vladimir putin's ambition. i think that is certainly true for europe. i think in this one case the united states did not underestimate him, because the

intelligence provided for the americans in the run-up and the biden administration, the run-up to this war, was very much putin is going in, and he's going in for all of kyiv, and they were ridiculed by the french, by the rest of the nato allies and the europeans who just didn't even -- even the ukrainians who didn't think that this was going to happen, and this was one time where so i would just like, you know, it was -- it was -- europe, i think, very much did underestimate. >> yeah. quickly. you've heard the assessments that we've been repeating, that we read from one of the agencies that study this and say that this is a draw. russia's bogged down. they're trying to make progress in the south. is that what you're hearing inside the pentagon? is that the pentagon assessments as well? >> even -- it was they doubled down on it yesterday, on that assessment. on, and even i would argue moved beyond the, russia's bogged down to russia is failing. the problem, though, is the more

they fail on the ground, the more brutal he gets in the air. and this is -- it's like watching a child who can't have, declared that, you know, this love for ukraine and these are our brothers and he's going to go take it and gone in, tried to take it, can't take it so he's destroying it. that tone that shift in tone came through, at the pentagon briefings and when i've been talking to defensive officials. this idea now that he is not just, not just that he stalled. the first couple of weeks hedging, saying they're going to correct quickly. every military, you know, d-day delayed. remember that? iraq war, blah, blah, blah, military figures out their mistakes. they haven't figured out their mistakes on the ground, but look what he's doing from the air. >> so many stories. the ukrainian passion. the ukrainian determination. the ukrainian resilience. it's hard to ignore. at the same time, when you read

some of the graphic details of the people who have survived mariupol or some of these besieged cities, it is -- it is hell raining down on ukraine. so president biden, jonathan swan, heads to europe to meet with nato, and then to poland amid these circumstances. what are the options the administration's looking at? >> well, the key question, there's sort of two key questions as i see it when i talk to biden officials. first is what is the atrocity threshold inside ukraine that would provoke a bigger response from nato? what would actually create the moral pressure that would cause the united states and nato allies to go beyond wa they've said, which is, no. not getting involved. not a no-fly zone, no version of a no-fly zone. >> can i interrupt? . yes.

>> when asking that question, already there. what about the level -- >> i've had people say to me, basically, we're not doing this. this is a red line, not getting involved. that's a theoretical conversation. when you actually see this happen. if god fbid we see chemical weapons op the ground, you don't know what that conversation takes. we've having a lovely theoretical korves, but the pressure that will create, we can't know what that's going to be. another dimension of this which is kind of the dog that hasn't barked yet, which is cyber. we haven't really seen the large-scale cyber attacks. i was having a conversation with senator mark warner, chair of the senate intelligence committee. one thing he is very focused on, has been thinking about is, we've seen in the past even with quote/unquote targeted cyber attacks. they're not really containable's they can spill out, malware can

beak into yore networks. if putin does this, people could easily see it getting to poland, other nato countries. then what happened with article v? nato isn't prepared for that conversation. they've been avoiding that conversation. so that's another dimension of this. we could be having, you know, these article five conversations in a different way. >> right. >> very shortly. >> i mean, seems to me, admiral, talk about couple things. first of all, if russia attacks poland or another nato country that is an attack against nato. article five kicks in and decides to melt down pipelines and stop their ability to move oil out. seems to me if putin hasn't moved yet, if that dog hasn't barked yet it's because he knows who's the bigger dog on the other side of the fence? >> part of it, joe, i think. and i prefer to say the bear

hasn't growled yet in this context, but i think there's another element in addition to your excellent point of deterrence from our cyber capability. the other point to be made is that potentially vladimir putin is holding back some of that high-end cyber, because once he does release it, jonathan's right. it goes into the wild. we can study it. we can reverse engineer it. we can blunt it. we can kill it. he may be holding some of those tools back, not using them to attack ukraine but holding them back, frankly, to attack the west. so i think this is an area that i've been spending a lot of time talking to business in the business sector about. get ready. because i think it is coming. >> and admiral, let's talk about mika's question. haven't we already seen the horrors, haven't we already seen civilian casualties that should be crossing the line. let's talk about this for a

minute. we have seen this before in aleppo. we say it in grozny. you read any book it's a world war ii. the germans bombing britain, then you saw the united states level german cities. the president, look what we did in tokyo, to try to prevent going in with nuclear weapons, or sending a million people onshore there that would have ended up with 3 million or 4 million people dieing possibly. but we've seen this before. we have not seen in europe nuclear weapons used. we haven't seen chemical weapons unleashed in a massive way in europe. do you believe that would be the red line that would have the united states and nato saying, we're not going to go in to moscow or russia but we are going in to ukraine and we're going to start protecting these people? >> i think that begins that conversation in a very serious way, yes.

those two instances. i'll give awe third, joe. go back to that video that was shown earlier of the russians shooting in the air in front of those protesters. if those guns come down, and they start mowing down lines of civilians, i think at that point the pressure becomes almost irresistible. why is that? what's the difference in all of those other things? it's right here, joe. it's the fact that every day a million ukrainians are picking up these cell phones and videoing everything, and moving it on the internet. believe me, world war ii might have looked a lot different if there had been a million cell phones with videos taken. so i think vladimir putin is, one if you will, killer video both in an apop kra poll sense and literal sense from gaining a real entry into this war. he better be careful.

he is overmatched by nato and conventional forces. bottom line, however, we need to continue to be concerned about escalation towards us. a very high-end conflict between nuclear powers. it's a delicate ball. i think the administration has got it about right thus far. >> helene, ask you the same question about nuclear, chemical. is that a red line? what's the pentagon saying about response to a tactical nuclear weapons that the russians use against ukraine people? >> it's such a fascinating point, because, clearly the administration is talking about it, and they do not answer that question. i've asked very senior officials what happens if vladimir putin uses one of his so-called smaller tactical nukes? does it change the game? and that official repied to me, yes, it absolutely changes the game, but i couldn't get him any further than that, because at the same time still saying we need to take a pause.

we need to make sure we don't get pushed into any conflicts with a nuclear armed russia. that's what it comes down to. russia has more than 4,000 nuclear weapons, and at the end of the day, that is the only thing stopping us from getting, that is the reason why nato is not in this conflict right now, and that is a really big reason. so, you know, the decision to cross over and to enter a kinetic fight is going to be a really tough one for this administration in particular to cross. >> and just so people understand. when we talk about tactical nuclear weapons, they're smaller nuclear weapons that might have the impact of a third or a half of the atomic bomb dropped or hiroshima. and if you dropped one of these on new york city it would kill or severely injure half the

residents. not really that tactical. >> the dynamic isn't that good, though, watching babies and mothers get torn apart day by day and cities decimated. i don't know. the impact ultimately feels like europe and america looks sweet. may not be the case, but it's a bad look. retired admiral, thank you very much, and before we go to break a look at some of the other stories making headlines this morning. "usa today," multiple tornadoes touched down in texas and oklahoma. dozens of homes badly damaged, and an officials are setting up shelters for family as they assess the full scope of the destruction. at least three people were injured including two who were inside a collapsed structure in oklahoma city. willie? from the "l.a. times" this morning, california warning of potential spike in covid cases this spring, because of an omicron subvariant known as ba.2, considered 30% to 60% more contagious than the original

omicron variant. the world health organization reported the first week over week increase in global coronavirus cases since late january. and the "wall street journal" this morning. maryland and georgia are temporarily cutting state gasoline taxes to give drivers a break at the pump, as fuel costs hover near record highs. lawmakers in illinois, massachusetts, and in michigan, among other states, are weighing a similar move. some members of congress are calling on the biden administration to suspend taxes on fuel at the federal level. and here at home in new york, the "new york daily news" mayor eric adams praising the new nypd anti-gun unit making 31 gun arrests in six days and the mayor addressed civil liberties concerns vowing to make officers' bodycam footage available to groups like the legal aid society. the plain-clothed gun units designed to go after firearms and deployed to about 25 neighborhoods that officials say represent 80% of the gun

violence in new york city. >> all right. still ahead on "morning joe," vladimir putin takes another step to cut russians off from any outside information. the media group, the russian president calling an extremist organization. plus, every day we see ukrainian president rallying his people to fight back russian forces. how he's reaching out to ukrainians on a daily basis. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. does daily stress leave you feeling out of sync? new dove men stress-relief body wash... with a plant-based adaptogen, helps alleviate stress on skin. so you can get back in sync. new dove men. a restorative shower for body and mind. (music throughout)

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welcome back to "morning joe." 6:31 in the morning. a live picture of the united states capitol will later today confirmation hearings continue in the senate for judge ketanji brown jackson's nominations to the supreme court. nbc news chief white house correspondent peter alexander has the latest.

>> reporter: judge ketanji brown jackson making her own case, to become the first black woman on the nation's highest court. >> i hope that you will see how much i love our country, and the constitution and the rights that make us free. >> reporter: with her husband wiping away a tear and her daughter seated nearby jackson also thanked her parents both former schoolteachers. >> they gave me an african name. ketanji onyika, which they were told means "lovely one." unlike the many barriers that they have had to face growing up, my path was clearer so that if i worked hard and i believed in myself, in america i could do anything or be anything i wanted to be. >> reporter: the 51-year-old confirmed less than a year ago as a federal appeals court judge is likely to face tougher scrutiny now.

including from lindsey graham, one of three republicans who voted to confirm her then. >> i want to know about your judicial philosophy, because people on the left, the far extreme farther left, believe that you were the best bet and i want to know why they reached that conclusion. >> reporter: and republican josh hawley previewing a line of attack accusing jackson of being soft on crime. highlighting her sentencing decisions in child pornography cases. >> and in every case, each of these seven judge jackson handed down a lean yat sentence below what was recommended and prosecutors requested. >> reporter: democrats highlighting she's been endorsed by numerous law enforcement. >> she hails from a law enforcement family. >> this is not a normal day for

america. we have never had this moment before. >> reporter: if confirmed, jackson pledging to be independent and neutral. >> thank you for this historic chance to join the highest court, to work with brilliant colleagues, to inspire future generations and to ensure liberty and justice for all. >> peter alexander reporting there. jonathan lemire with us. jon, the white house expectations this nomination will go through a question how many votes they get. he heard joe manchin, for example, democrat from west virginia criticizing josh hawley for his performance already before questioning even starts. is there a road block in front of the white house they're worried about to this nomination? >> not that they can see, no. they feel confident they'll get tis done. the judge faces up to 12 hours of questions today. a grueling day. a number of hours tomorrow. republicans previewed their attack lines.

they want to pick, try to paint her as soft on crime. the white house quick to note endorsements including fraternal odor of police backed donald trump in the last election said she's qualified. heard from senators cruz, graham and others use yesterday's moment to air grievances about previous supreme court hearings over coney barrett, kavanaugh, gorsuch. and of course, the vice president could cast the vote to break a tie. and lindsey graham backed jackson for her previous coast. clearly not happening again. susan collins of maine, they feel very good about and think she actually can support here give them the ability to say this is a bipartisan confirmation even if just one republican. >> three republicans less than a year ago voted for judge jackson to her current seat on the federal appeals court. we've heard from republicans they don't want to make this personal.

and said it anyway, references what happened to now justice kavanaugh, going bark to judge bork. ted cruz yesterday a law school classmate of judge jackson. do you expect any kind of personal attacks or will it be along the lines of what we married from josh hawley yesterday, sentencing guidelines and some of her record? >> an interesting gathering. i think most republicans. you'll hear some. soft on crime will be the number one attack. but i think there's a broad sense among republicans, they'll take shots but know she's qualified, received endorsements and historic. the first black woman, of course to sit on the supreme court. there aren't too many republicans that want to get in the way of that. i think that some of the attacks they're going to other. frankly aimed more creating campaign ads to run back home, are done so in safety knowing she'll be confirmed. take a few dings at her yet

she'll have her place on the bench. it a meaningful thing certainly. shouldn't lose sight. yesterday we saw senator booker and others note what progress this is for america that someone like this a black woman can now, is now just a few days away most likely from being confirmed and taking her seat on the highest seat in the land. >> a lot who didn't want to talk about her didn't want to talk about the history. a fixation on kavanaugh. mika and i criticized what was done to kavanaugh at the end. suddenly michael avinati, but yesterday transfixed talking about kavanaugh. almost as if they didn't want to talk about the history happening right in front of them? >> a bit of context to this. let me give you a sense how mcconnell thinks about this

particular confirmation. in mcconnell's mind this is actually quite a low-stakes confirmation fight. >> right. >> and you know, she is not going to fundamentally change the balance of the court. still have conservative control. in mcconnell's mind, this is really an opportunity, and why you're hearing this messaging from them to say, you know, we're going to treat her respectfully. not the quote/unquote circus like kavanaugh and put a few hits in, like the crime thing for the midterms but really know democrats have got the votes and -- >> on the crime thing, andy mccarthy, andrew mccarthy, pure demagoguery. any prosecutor looking a the that knows. what judge hawley does. lies, engages in demagoguery. about the capitol being ransacked crossing his legs in the balcony pretending he's not paying attention. he's a grand stander, not a

serious guy. do you think other people are going to be doing this? >> the andy mccarthy piece was speck, very narrow, actually, what he wrote. about the child pornography stuff and andy mccarthy has a long history trying child pornography. you've seen mcconnell himself suggest that her background as a criminal defense lawyer suggests an empathy with criminals. so i do think you're going to see other republicans go along that broad line of attack. i don't think it will just be josh hawley. coming up, one of the lawmakers questioning the supreme court nominee when confirmation hearings resume today, senator chris coons joins us. plus, we'll talk to him about the situation in ukraine. president biden's new warning to business leaders about the potential for russian cyber attacks. and later -- former homeland security secretary jeh johnson joins us.

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[ speaking in foreign language ] ukrainian president

zelenskyy telling his people to do everything they can in the war effort to protect their country, but it's not just the president leading the war effort. it's also his wife. in her latest piece for "washington monthly" entitled ukrainian first lady fights on, margaret carlson details how zelenskyy inspired fellow ukrainians to keep holding on giving daily advice how to survive in wartime on zelenskyy's channel on telegram. she writes, olena has no weapons, just a camera, a voice and the truth that comes from remaining in the middle of the war with the millions of ukrainians she connects with every day. when her husband said i need ammunition, not a ride. olena agreed and hunkered down. for security reasons the government won't say where she and her children are. only that they remain in ukraine. ukrainians have held off the

russians for almost three weeks, with a first lady whose efforts have made her target number two for assassination. under siege like her country, olena finds herself revered at home and abroad for her rallying of ukraine with chilling determination. both olena and volodymyr have done something never done. mobilize add nation not while the barbarian was at the gates, but after they had already entered the house. we don't know if three months from now the couple will be in prison in moscow, under a pile of rubble or still leading their nation, olena is convinced and convincing that it will be the last one. >> willie, remarkable, what has happened to this family over the past month. you look at this guy who, again, was a comedian, a dancer.

>> an actor. >> he was an actor. if you want to see his series, can you can see it on netflix now. mika and i watched some of it, and it was surreal seeing this guy who, you know, an actor, a comedian, who found his voice in the middle of this war that, again, is the closest thing that we have to a churchillian voice since churchill himself in the spring and summer of 1940. >> yeah. extraordinary to watch. obviously, i think most americans came to know the name zelenskyy because of president trump's first impeachment with that infamous phone call and now in this time of crisis for his country and this time he's being attacked, civilians fleeing over the border into poland. killed inside hospitals and theaters, he has risen to the occasion. he is, as mika just said, the number one target for assassination, yet out walks

streets in fatigues, out visiting hospitals as we see here providing a model of leadership and making these pleas as he did to parliament a couple weeks ago and congress last week for the west to do even more than it's doing now. showing gratitude. tailoring speeches to audiences in the room, talking about churchill and 9/11 with the american congress and asking for a no-fly zone, for example. something the united states has said it will not do yet, but, yeah. really has been a model of leadership right now. talk about china and the dynamic in the ukraine. keith richards writes, this was supposed to be president xi jinping of triumph. successful winter olympics staged in beijing, his economy set to come back following the pandemic. july marks the anniversary returning to china but out in battling its worse outbreak

since 2020 and first deaths of the year. the fifth wave of the virus confirmed cases soaring to highest levels since start of the pandemic. now the city seen its health system overwhelmed, containment efforts abandoned. a mass exodus of people and its embattled leadership looking increasingly likely to be replaced. russia's problems in trying to subdue ukraine might have thrown a wrench into chinese planning to take military action against taiwan. the west coming together quickly likely a warning to china what it might face should it decide to invade taiwan and the ukrainian resistance has shown a powerful, better equipped military cannot always easily defeat a smaller 5d verify serie determined to defend its turf. economic headwinds and chaos in hong kong, seems hardly like the triumphant year xi was expecting and certainly not much to celebrate. joe, all of those things true.

the president warning china not to provide materiel sport to russia. warning of consequences if it does step in. >> almost as if that old chinese proverb is true. chickens are coming home coming roost. maybe that was what my grandma told me. but the chickens are coming home to roost. you have china who was -- their economy was moving at a 7, 8, 9, 10% clip over the past decade. suddenly you have a crackdown on hong kong, the economic center of asia. you have covid coming out of china. they're the ones actually that -- with their zero covid policy are going to be hit by it the longest. their economy is sagging. they go after the steve jobs of china and every other successful entrepreneur. they send them scattering.

other entrepreneurs scattering to the west. and so now their economy is sagging and all these authoritarian moves seemed to have backfired on them and they select the wrong side in the war. they were starting to divide the eu from america. that's all changed in the past month. this has been a very bad year for xi, hasn't it? >> that has completely changed in the past month. i would not want to be xi jingping right now. one thing you didn't add but could add to that very long list is that china is quite -- any global economic downturn that we see because of the russia war in ukraine would definitely hit china very hard. and china so far has managed to dodge any fallout from the sanctions, but that's not going to last forever. any help that they give to russia or some point, they're going to see their companies and

they're going to see their institutions economically start to be hit as well. they've certainly appeared to have picked the wrong side in this war, and you can tell by how ambivalent xi jingping's support for vladimir putin has been. you saw the photos during the -- during the olympics and they were supposed two peas in a pod. but sense then, you know, beijing has been not as vociferous in their endorsement of russia, giving these weak proclamations of saying let the violence stop. but you certainly haven't seen any kind of full-throated endorsement of putin's actions from china and that -- you've just given all the reasons why. >> they seem to be backing away slowly. again, it's important to understand why what russia is doing is so bad for china.

you can go back to 1979 and the chinese president came over to the state and normalized relations for a reason. he wanted to drag china into the 20th and then the 21st century, and he was going to do that by engaging in market reforms and building within the system. and so you actually have china that has spent the past 40 years learning how to dominate that system and knowing they're going to overtake the united states. and now you have vladimir putin who wants to disrupt that system, tear that system down to the ground. as you father wrote all the time, the soviets can't build anything, so they must disrupt the international system. so their goals are completely opposite of each other. so it just -- it doesn't make sense for china to do anything

but move back toward the west because that's where -- as far as commerce goes, that's their future. it's not with russia. i wanted to talk to jonathan about zelenskyy. let's circle back to zelenskyy. you talked with him a few times over the past year or two. give us some insight into his thinking about how the west and how america betrayed ukraine on nato long before this battle began. >> so, i mean, i was in kyiv almost about a year ago with zelenskyy. i stayed in touch with him and his people. i interviewed him again in the spring. you have to see things from his perspective. just so you understand how he thinks about this. ukraine had nuclear weapons. they gave them up in the '90s. they gave them up and were given assurances that their territorial integrity would be protected. you can imagine there might be a

few people around zelenskyy, perhaps even zelenskyy himself who might think that was regrettable. how do you look someone in the face now and say, it's in your interest to give up your nuclear weapons. so that happens. 2008, they were promised nato membership. they were promised it. and from zelenskyy's point of view, they keep getting these bs excuses for the next 12 years. you need to clean up your corruption, you need to modernize your military. meanwhile they watched deeply -- >> turkey. >> turkey, they're really good on the noncorruption scale, and then they see these mighty modernized militaries allowed into nato and they sit there and go, give me a break. >> after being told, you have to modernize your military before we let you in. >> excuse the expression, sort of piss ant militaries allowed

in, and they say, give me a break. there's this real anger about this. now they're dealing with the cards they've been dealt. the west is unifying -- they're not willing to intervene militarily. but when i was over there, i was struck with out alone ukraine was. the germans were doing business with the russians and russia was already in their country. he inherited a war in the east. and so it was this awful position he found himself in and i was just struck by how isolated and alone he was. >> and you notice in his address to american congress he pointed out, okay, nato, there's one thing. why don't we create a 24-member of responsible countries that can react in 24 hours to something like this, where we protect each other. it's almost like, nato's not working, let's create something that does, because we're dying. you're watching us die and you're not doing anything, so to

speak. there is aid coming -- hold that thought and hang in there because we're going to come back. still ahead, as putin's war in ukraine drags on, concerns are growing that he could get desperate enough to use nuclear weapons. we're going to take a look at what is in his arsenal and what kind of damage the bombs could do. that and much more as our coverage continues after a quick break. [limu emu squawks] woo! new personal record, limu! only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty. ♪ ♪ baby got back by sir mix-a-lot ♪ only pay for what you need. unlimited cashback match... only from discover.

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it's the top of the hour. welcome back. we'll be joined by john kirby in just a moment. first, breaking news from on the ground in the ukraine. the country's defense minister said a short time ago that forces have recaptured a key suburb of kyiv giving ukraine control of an important highway that could help prevent russian troops from surrounding the capital from the northwest. but the battle for mariupol

ranges on brutally with ukraine, again, rejecting russia's demand to surrender. the brutal stalemate fueling a growing humanitarian crisis. people are trapped in there. and the italian parliament is now the latest to hear from ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy. he told lawmakers via video in rome just a short time ago, quote, we are on the brink of survival. >> it's tuesday, march 22nd, we have jonathan lemire and eileen cooper still with us. in an effort to bolster the ukrainian army, "the wall street journal" is reporting that the weapons are familiar to the military which inherited this weapon after the break up of the ussr. it includes decades old short range and long range missile systems. do we have john kirby? let's bring in john kirby now.

admiral, thank you so much for being with us. let's talk about this weapon transfer. it seems to me we have a lot of this going on, some old warsaw pact countries transferring weapons into ukraine. in exchange, the united states back fills them with more modern weapons. >> we're having lots of discussions with allies and partners, joe, about getting into ukraine, the kinds of long range air defense systems that they're trained on and they know how to use and been using for quite some time and effectively in the last month or so. we were just over in nato, is secretary met with counterparts, certainly at brussels with other nato allies to see what can be done across the alliance to provide these kinds of systems. obviously, we're talking to them about options for offsets. would they need back fill capabilities and what would that look like and how can the united states help? we're exploring those options actively with them. >> we heard from a nato official yesterday saying that the war right now in ukraine looks like a stalemate.

it doesn't feel that way to the civilians on the ground who are being attacked, the 2 million ukrainian who fled across the board. what is the pentagon assessment of the military state of affairs right now? >> we would agree with you, calling it a stalemate doesn't seem exactly the best assessment here. obviously, there's a lot of fighting going on. it's not a static conflict. the ukrainians are fighting back bravely, but here's the thing, they're fighting back in the places and at the times and with the capabilities that are serving their needs best. they're not trying to defend everywhere, they're trying to defend where they know the russians are trying to take. here we are, day 27, and the russians have only taken two city centers in ukraine and both of them are in the south. they have not been able to take kyiv or kharkiv. certainly mariupol is an active fight right now. they have been frustrated in achieving any of these objectives and that's because ukrainians are fighting back so hard. >> president biden warned yesterday about the distinct

possibility of a cyberattack coming from russia in ukraine, europe, perhaps, even the united states. what more can you tell us about that? >> again, we're calling russia out for what we're seeing them do. we want to make sure we're being as open and transparent before they get a chance to act. this is a piece of the president's strategy in that regard. we were honest with business leaders yesterday about the kinds of things we're seeing. the defense department, we haven't suffered any attacks. we get obviously our networks get probed every single day. we haven't seen anything effect our infrastructure or critical u.s. government infrastructure. we want to make sure that leaders knew and aware that the russians would probably try this tactic going forward. >> president zelenskyy says they're on the brink of survival. he's not mincing words about how bad the situation is for the people of ukraine. many of them trying to defend

the country. you have said there are discussions happening, working with allies and partners, there's a lot of talking. i know there are certain things you probably can't share. is there any action happening with getting actual supplies, weaponry, whatever it is the ukrainians need, into the hands of ukrainians at this moment? >> yes, ma'am. every single day. every single day we're helping coordinate shipments not only of our gear and equipment, but of other allies and partners and getting them into the hands of ukrainians. this stuff is not sitting on a shelf somewhere. they're using it every single day. the $350 million that the president signed out a few weeks ago, we're going to complete the rest of that this week, and the other $800 million, we're already working -- as quickly as -- no time -- it's not on the side of the ukrainians and so we're going to work as fast as we can to get them these materials. >> you owe me a phone call,

first of all. why -- you said earlier that -- you talked about how the russian forces are stalled. why do you not call this at this point a war of attrition? why is it that the russian forces are stalled? >> look, i think first of all we're going to sort of shy away of putting labels on this and bumper stickers on it. clearly, this is an active, dynamic fight and as president zelenskyy put it, the fight of their survival. we respect that. i would say a couple of reasons. the russians have suffered missteps of their own. they did not plan properly for logistics and sustainment. they're running out of food, fuel. they're having trouble making any progress on the ground. they're not integrating their forces the way you would think a modern military would. their air to ground operations are not fully cooperated. you're not seeing that level of what we would call jointness here at the pentagon out of the

russian military. number three, this is obviously the most important factor, is ukrainian resistance. one reason why they're being so effective in the field is because of the kinds of material that the united states and so many other nations are giving them in the fight. but we also have been training them, and you know, over the last eight years. it's not about the stuff, it's about their ability to use that stuff in the field effectively and that was a result, again, of the united states, canada, other allies who over the last eight years have put trainers on the ground to help build their competence in the field. >> good morning. i want you to explore a little further on that point. was this russian overconfidence here? more than that, the heavy losses that they're taking -- i know it's hard to verify exactly, but what is the pentagon's latest sense in terms of the equipment they've lost, but also the manpower? >> a couple of things, one, we think that the russians underestimated the strength that the ukrainians would be able to

put in the field, their ability to fight back, their capabilities. we think there was an intelligence failure on their part. we think they were overconfident in how fast they were going to be able to move and that has clearly frustrated them. 27 days in, they haven't really accomplished a whole lot, other than the death and destruction of so many cities and putting -- fleeing people into refugee status. and i think that at large, i mean, this is a war that has not gone their way. >> so, admiral, we've been asking a question that obviously a lot of military planners are concerned about, i'm sure people inside the pentagon have talked about it. we're concerned, america's concerned, the world is concerned, what happens if vladimir putin gets so frustrated he decides to use tactical nuclear weapons? what happens if he starts using

chemical weapons on ukrainians? is that a red line that is crossed, is that the time that nato has to come in and protect the ukrainian people from just these mass atrocities that are being visited upon them by vladimir putin? >> i think we need to be really careful, joe, when we start talking about red lines and hypotheticals here. the president was very clear that the international community would react strongly should mr. putin decide to use weapons of mass destruction. we haven't seen anything, any indication today, joy, that that's in the offing or that's sort of eminent at all, and that includes the nuclear stuff. what i would tell you, we're very confident, very comfortable in the strategic posture that we have, not only for our homeland, but for our allies and partners. we're looking at this every day. we're monitoring it. we're watching what he's doing. we haven't seen an indication of the use of wmd right now. >> well, the west is underestimated this guy since

2007, 2008, he keeps talking about nuclear weapons. he keeps talking about world war iii. people keep talking about world war iii and nuclear weapons. this would be -- the alarms are all going off. they're talking about the use of nuclear weapons in a way no leader has for the past 30, 40 years. this isn't really a hypothetical question, is it? >> no doubt, joe, that the rhetoric that we're hearing coming out of the kremlin is concerning. no doubt about that. it's not helpful to international security to have him even talk about this or broach this. for instance, accusing the ukrainians of conducting a biological, chemical attack. it's the russian playbook to blame others for that which you're preparing to do yourself. this is a concern to us. and that is why, joe, quite frankly that we are working hard to make sure, get into the ukrainian hands, the kinds of tools they need to defend themselves without further escalating this conflict.

i think we can all agree that a broadening war here and an escalated conflict is not good for our security or europe's security, but it's not good for ukraine. >> admiral, the question that president biden will have to answer at nato and has been asked by president zelenskyy over and over again is what more can the united states be doing? what more can the west do? russia's economy is collapsing from the inside. it's imploding. those missiles have been going in, the javelin missiles that you've been talking about that have made a difference on the ground. what is left in the -- from your point of view, the military toolbox, what more can the united states do to help ukraine? >> the first thing we're going to do is get that $800 million security package filled out, get the list filled out, the inventory and get it into ukraine as quickly as possible and certainly the president would not rule out additional security assistance packages as we go forward. it's, one, making sure ukraine can continue to defend itself with the kinds of systems and tools that they know how to do

it. number two, obviously, you've talked about the sanctions and the president is continuing to look at options with respect to economic consequences on russia. and then number three, this is really important, this is one of the reasons the president is going to brussels and to europe this week, is to make sure that we make it clear to our allies in nato that our commitment to -- our commitment to article five is ironclad. we're going to defend every inch of nato territory. the united states is willing to put skin in the game in terms of making sure we shore up the eastern flank of nato. about a month or so ago, we had 80,000 u.s. troops in europe and now we have 100,000. and we're constantly looking at that footprint and posture to make sure it's right. >> is the pentagon having discussions about the concern about just the optics of the world watching all of this happen and almost appearing weak or feckless? i know you say that shipments are going in and everything is being done that can be done.

at the same time there is this trauma that the world is experiencing and watching, and is it, in a way, bringing nato, its effective, and making the united states appear weak because we're not actually getting in there, which i know has a lot of caveats. standing by and watching as atrocity as atrocity happens. >> it's difficult to see the death and destruction, to see the families being destroyed, hospitals being bombed. nobody wants to see that, but there's a couple of things here, one, again, ukrainians are fighting back hard and a large part of that, a large reason for that is because of the support the united states has given them over the last eight years. we haven't been sitting on the sidelines here. we've been helping them with their battlefield competence and getting more materials into their hands every single day and they're using it effectively. that's not accident. there was a lot of effort that's

gone into that. on nato, i was in the navy for almost 30 years. i've never seen nato more united, more resolved than it is right now, and the united states, as i said, is really putting skin in that faith game. we're adding to capability, we're helping allies and partners, we're shoring up that eastern flank. there's nothing weak about that, nothing weak at all. >> admiral, thank you so much for being with us. admiral john kirby. i have a message just handed to me. call eileen cooper. >> will do. >> thank you so much. >> thank you. >> thank you. >> no problem at all. >> he really didn't call back yesterday. >> he's a good guy. >> i'm sorry that i have to take it to national tv. >> i'm your assistant. i'll be glad to get him to call you back. before you go, we were talking about what was going on

capitol hill, history that's being made this week, and i was very careful not to ask you about it because you've -- you tell me when you walk onto sets, you say, do not ask me any questions about domestic politics. so i did that. but then when we went to break, i asked, could i ask you about it, and you said, yeah, because this is so moving and personal to you. >> it is. it's like -- as a black woman watching, you know -- when you're a black woman, you deal with decades and decades of being told that in so many ways you're at the lowest of the totem pole when it comes to the way the world views you. and so it's impossible not to get -- feel some level of emotional attachment when you see a kamala harris, a ketanji brown jackson. it's just like, completely -- and i felt -- i've been dealing with this -- because i'm a pentagon correspondent, my head has been so deep in ukraine for the last 27 days that i've --

this other huge thing has been happening that i've been feeling very guilty about not paying enough attention to. and it's very -- it's been a weird head space that i've been in. but i feel proud. it's not even, you know, without getting into the politics of this, it's just a really nice thing to see after the sort of political turmoil we've had in the past few years to see this. and the best to her. >> thank you. we want to -- we appreciate having you on. i hope he calls today, i really do. we want to end with firsthand reporting from ukraine. two press journalists were the only international media who remained in mariupol after the war broke out. both of them stayed on for weeks as russian forces battered the key port city documenting the

horrors firsthand. yesterday they said they were forced to flee after appearing on a russian hit list. the two journalists recount being chased by the russians for nearly three weeks before finally escaping. one of them writes quote, if they catch you, they will get you on camera and they will make you say that everything you filmed is a lie. all of your efforts and everything you have done in mariupol will be in vain. he continues, one bomb at a time, the russians cut electricity, water, food supplies and finally crucially the cell phone, radio and television towers. with the city largely cut off from communications and the intense fighting making it almost impossible to escape, firsthand reports from there have been difficult to come by. the "new york times" spoke with residents who managed to evacuate through humanitarian corridors that open infrequently. one said, quote, the dead lie in the entrances, on the balconies,

in the yards, and you're not scared one bit because the biggest fear is night shelling. do you know what night shelling looks like? like death. >> willie, it's just an extraordinary story told by two extraordinary ap reporters. the beginning of it, they're hiding inside of a hospital, being protected by doctors who put them in medical garb and suddenly when they know they're on the hit list, suddenly soldiers bust through the doors of the hospital and there are about six or seven soldiers and they said, where are the blanking journalists? and they think they're coming to get them. it ends up they are the ukrainians who are risking their lives to get to the hospital, to grab these two journalists, grateful that they stayed to report what was happening in their city, but they wanted to

get them out to tell the whole story, and this harrowing escape from mariupol, nothing short of extraordinary. >> it's an amazing story. the thing about it is, that's one of thousands of stories that are taking place that we don't even know, of people helping each other survive inside these embattled cities. and mariupol was described by one longtime resident of saying, my city is dying a slow, painful death, they're there watching it happen before their eyes. that's why you hear this urgency from civilians and president zelenskyy that they need more because these stories of human suffering, of civilians being targeted are just horrifying. and, jonathan lemire, it does raise the stakes again, for the president's trip tomorrow to brussels to talk to fellow nato members, he'll move into poland after that to see some of those 2 million refugees who have streamed across the border. what does he want out of this

trip? what change is after it? >> first of all, let me just add my note of thanks to those brave journalists. my former colleagues at the ap. i'm glad they're out safely. it's a high-stakes trip for the president who leaves tomorrow for europe. thursday will be a day of diplomacy. it's a trip that is mostly focusing on messaging and the idea being that the west is a unified front, standing with ukraine against russia. he'll meet with nato leaders, g-7 leaders, european council leaders to say the united states is here, we're doing our part. we're going to keep sending help, arms, equipment, money to ukraine. there's going to be emerging flash point, is this the week where perhaps european countries will acknowledge they'll wean themselves off russian oil. officials say there's some momentum, that it may not be

media, but a slow weaning which would be a significant deal and really hurt the financing of putin's war machine. we expect him to head to poland which he will thank the country there. white house officials considering a stop near the border to have time with refugees to hear their tales of survival. and, look, any time a president goes overseas, they don't go empty-handed. expect him to announce further sanctions and potentially this european oil ban which would be a significant deal. >> and the president will be on his way tomorrow morning. still ahead, we talked about mariupol. kharkiv also has been hit hard by russian attacks. we'll take a look at what life is like right now inside that city for the residents who still are there. we'll be joined by jeh johnson. a busy morning. "morning joe" coming right back. .

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the city of kharkiv has been ransacked by violence for the past few weeks. the residents that remain there have resorted to living in underground train stations to survive. john sparks has more. >> reporter: the streets of kharkiv have been abandoned by the majority of those who live here. half a million have fled this city. their prized possessions in a bag and their cars discarded at the station.

those who remain hide in the shadows, in the dark, or the deep underground. more than a dozen metro stations have been turned into shelters. these battered-looking train carriages redeployed as homes. >> how long have you been living here? >> three weeks. >> reporter: how do you feel about it? >> when we hear something blow up, we're here. what was that? oh, shooting. >> reporter: the experience is a trial for a new mother. he gave birth to her son two days after the invasion began. the hospital then sent her here. [ speaking foreign language ] >> reporter: they now live in the final car on platform two

with a cot and clothes provided by volunteers. natalia says life will never be the same again. [ speaking foreign language ] >> reporter: residents who remain will try to endure, but some are no longer able. the city morgue receives 50 to 100 bodies a day caused by the war and by natural causes. they don't have room to examine them here and they don't have the staff to bury them. the man in charge says it's a real struggle. >> reporter: when a russian

missile struck this institute, the entire neighborhood was damaged in the blast. this 85-year-old told us she hung onto the door frame in the hope she would survive. >> reporter: what was it like when the bombing happened, when the missile hit? >> reporter: one of her neighbors called deanna was not so fortunate. she was caught in the explosion, glass from the windows puncturing her face. her doctor said there's a fine line between life and death.

>> reporter: next door we found four men fighting for their lives. one hit by shrapnel, another blown up by a mine. sergey is an opera singer turned volunteer who was shot seven times as he tried to evacuate local residents. >> reporter: who was shooting at you? >> reporter: sergey's body should heal in time and he's celebrated with an old italian song of resistance.

♪♪ death and displacement have come to everybody's doorstep, but there are many here who are determined to hold on. >> we will continue to cover the growing humanitarian crisis and the strategic options as the brutality and the decimation of ukrainian cities continues. also coming up, judge ketanji brown jackson will be back on capitol hill this morning to face hours of questions from lawmakers. we'll bring you the highlights from day one of the supreme court confirmation hearings. also ahead, former secretary of homeland security under president obama jeh johnson joins us right here in the studio. "morning joe" is coming right back. oming right ckba inner voice (design studio owner): i'm over here waiting... ... looking intensely for a print that i never actually printed... ... so i don't have to deal with that terrifying pile of invoices.

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36 past the hour. confirmation hearings continue this morning for judge ketanji brown jackson's nomination to the supreme court. nbc news senior capitol hill correspondent garrett haake has the very latest. >> reporter: judge ketanji brown jackson on monday introducing herself to the nation and to the senators who will decide if she becomes the first african american woman on the supreme court. >> i have dedicated my career to ensuring that the words engraved on the front of the supreme court building, equal justice under law, are a reality and not just an ideal. >> reporter: backed by family, including her daughter and husband, judge jackson thanking her parents for encouraging her on this historic course. >> they gave me an african name, ketanji onyika.

unlike many barriers they have had to face growing up, my path was clearer. >> reporter: jackson spoke for 12 minutes monday. today she'll face 30-minute rounds of questioning from all members of the committee. some senators previewing lines of attack. >> you once wrote that they have personal agendas that influence how they can decide cases so i can only wonder what's your personal agenda. you made clear that you believe judges must consider critical race theory when deciding how to sentence criminal defendants. is it your agenda to incorporate that into our legal sentence? >> we are on the precipice of shattering another ceiling.

>> reporter: confident in her ability to present her own best defense. >> what do you expect to hear from judge jackson in this hearing? >> i think what you're going to see in the questioning today is someone who snows herself, she knows why she made certain decisions, and she is just going to charm people at home. >> let's bring in former secretary of homeland security jeh johnson. mr. secretary, you did some public defenders work. the system depends on it, right? >> yes. in 1983 or '84, i was a young corporate lawyer in new york city and i wanted to do some pro bono work. i applied to the pro bono panel for the u.s. district court, and then a short while later, i got this brown envelope with a file. and i opened it up, started to read the file. this is your new client, you're

assigned to defend him and i began to read it and it looked familiar. i said, this is the convicted amity bill murder serving six consecutive life sentences for killing his parents, his kids. and i went to a senior partner in my firm and i said, what do i do, i'm asked to represent this guy. and he said, basically, kid, do your job. represent him ably. and the result of which is, he's still serving six consecutive life sentences. but that's part of our professional responsibility in the legal profession. when i was general council of the department of defense and we were defending all of these habeas possessions brought by guantanamo detainees, and we had a string of victories for the government in those cases, but i took comfort in the fact that they were represented by highly competent, dedicated attorneys, like judge jackson.

it added strength and credibility to the system. >> and having public defenders, having people step up and do what you did, even from a setting as a corporate lawyer, that's guaranteed in the constitution that every defendant is going to have legal council. >> yes. and to say that because the lawyer represents the client, the lawyer somehow endorses the crime or has sympathy for the crime is so short-sighted. and you should zealously represent a client without endorsing the crime that was committed. >> let's move on to the war right now and specifically something that you know an awful lot about, and that is cyberattacks. we've been asking a question this morning, what happens if russia launches a significant cyberattack on any of our nato allies or in the united states itself. what's our response? >> i once gave congressional

testimony on this whether and when a cyberattack can constitute an act of war. basically most of the legal analysis suggests that if a cyberattack causes large-scale physical damage or loss of life, like a kinetic attack, it can be considered an act of war which makes an act of war-like response proportionate, but not necessarily in-kind, and could trigger our obligations under nato. it's important to remember, on a regular basis there are cyberattacks in this country on a smaller scale. we have to be vigilant. and the president was right to put out the statement yesterday about raising our defenses, being prepared, even though there's no specific credible threat right now. it's important to try to anticipate the possibility of that. >> the president is getting ready to go to europe, meet with nato leaders, go to poland.

how do you assess the situation? most strategists say what russia wants is ukraine. and yet, i still feel there's a constant sort of triggering or poking at the u.s. to see how far they can go, like how -- how many atrocities they can commit before the united states is finally pulled in. do you see it that way? >> well, you were talking earlier about red lines, and you made the point, well, haven't they already crossed a red line. >> so many. >> how much worse can it get than targeting a structure with the words "children" on the structure? and so this administration is being tested right now in terms of how far we will go and the more images we see of civilian casualties, civilian deaths, pregnant women dying, the political pressure is going to increase to do more and more.

i think the biden administration has been very disciplined in how they approach this, very methodical, very careful. but we're in a situation that inch by inch could lead us to a direct military confrontation with russia, something we avoided all through the cold war. i predict that we're going to begin to see cracks in the russian government in these peace talks. my instinct is that those engaged in the talks are probably more anxious for a deal than vladimir putin is. and may reach for something that he doesn't approve. so that's going to -- how that plays out, i think, will be very interesting. >> willie is in new york. >> it's good to see you. i want to go back quickly to cyberattacks, we're talking shorthand about that. president biden yesterday warned ceos in the private sector to harden their defenses inside their own companies. we just heard from admiral kirby

saying the pentagon is doing the same, hasn't seen any breaches there. what would an effective cyberattack look like from russia's perspective on the united states, and what does the counter look like? what is the united states capable of? we've heard the united states can turn off the flow of oil, we heard that the united states can turn off the lights in moscow. what does a cyberattack in response look like? >> first, there's the possibility of implanting malware in critical infrastructure and once malware is implanted, it can be activated on a moment's notice. and that's something to be very concerned about, to be very vigilant when it comes to our critical infrastructure. the type of cyberattack that could warrant a cyberattack in response from our government is one that causes large scale destruction of some sort,

physical death possibly, a loss of life, and a response should be proportionate. in other words, under international principles, law after war, if a cyberattacks causes large-scale destruction, we can respond in a proportionate way, but it doesn't necessarily need to be a cyberattack. >> you have to prepare for any eventuality, any terrible incident in the united states, including potentially a biological or chemical attack. talk to us about what that would look like if russia were to go down that route in ukraine, how devastating it would be and what would be an appropriate response? >> well, that's a good question. you know, it's the american impulse to defend freedom. it's the american impulse to

come in and defend a nation under attack like this. the united states, the united states military has lots of resources, lots of means, lots of different options for how we might respond to a chemical weapons attack, for example. there's not lose sight of the fact that atrocities, war crimes, are already being committed in ukraine right now. the targeting of children, the targeting of innocent civilians. some of the images we're seeing right now. and so there are all sorts of ways we can and should respond, there's all sorts of ways nato should respond, providing weapons, supplies, hardening defenses. but we have to be careful not to inch by inch find ourselves in an armed conflict, direct armed conflict with russia. we've seen over and over again in the history of this country

that it is actually much easier to become embroiled in a conflict than it is no extract yourself from a conflict. i think the biden administration has been very disciplined, very careful in their approach to this. but i still tend to believe it's going to get worse before it gets better. >> former secretary of homeland security under president obama, jeh johnson, thank you. >> and jeh johnson is an expert on cybersecurity, national security. one of the great lawyers in america. he also -- he's got a side gig and we want to show you what that side gig is. >> okay. it's right there on the phone. >> he's a deejay now. a weekend deejay. an incredible program called "all things soul" and you happen to have a guest stumble -- >> my new hobby. i love classic r&b, '70s. i think you and i are in the

same strike zone there. >> we are. >> my show in newark, new jersey, debuted last saturday. and my first guest was the honorable william jefferson clinton who came onto talk about his love of jazz. >> and you said he wowed everybody at the station by just his in-depth knowledge -- >> his memory, his recall for his favorite jazz musicians, he brought albums to show me. maybe, joe, i can convince with you, if your contract with msnbc permits it, to come on. i know you're a fan. >> i am. i think they will let me call into your program. >> that would be a long one. >> it's pbs? >> it's public radio. >> fantastic. >> love public radio. >> great to have you, jeh.

thank you very much. dragonfly is shipping ten medical response and search and rescue zones to war-torn ukraine. the drones will be used by revive soldiers ukraine which is dedicated to providing aid to the people of the war-torn country. the drones will be equipped with payload boxes that can transport up to 35 pounds of blood, pharmaceuticals, medicine, water and wound care kits. they will be used to deliver key material to hard to reach and dangerous areas of which there are many right now in ukraine. still ahead, spring break is turning into a nightmare for some people who live in a popular destination. they are now under a state of emergency following a violent weekend. at the top of the hour, we're headed back to ukraine for the latest on the ground from several cities, including new attacks on civilians by russian

forces. "morning joe" will be right back. ght back

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two tickets to nascar! yes! find rewards like these and so many more in the xfinity app. what a beautiful sight at 7:53 in the morning, that is miami beach which now has declared a state of emergency over concerns about spring break crowds. officials are imposing a weekend curfew beginning thursday morning after midnight. the announcement comes after two shootings over the past two days left five bystanders hospitalized. it marks the second year in a row that officials in miami beach have declared a state of emergency. it's a popular party destination but the city cracked down on spring breakers to limit covid last year, now set to impose another curfew this year. today some disney employees are expected to walk off the job in protest of the company's

response to what critics call the don't say gay bill in the state of florida. nbc news correspondent blayne alexander reports. >> reporter: this morning outrage at the happiest place on earth with disney employees expected to walk off the job today over florida's so-called don't say gay bill. if signed into law, the bill would ban classroom instruction on sexual orientation or gender identity in kindergarten through third grade. critics say reversing decades of progress on lgbtq rights. the parental rights in education bill has prompted weeks of protests across the sunshine state. now, a group of disney employees urging their colleagues across the country to stage a walkout today, writing in an open letter, we must now take action to convince the walt disney company to protect employees and their families. their anger is directed at ceo bob chapek with critics saying

did he not do enough to publicly oppose the bill before it passed. chapek explaining -- >> we were opposed to the bill from the outset but we chose not to take a public position on it because we thought we could be more effective working behind the scenes. >> reporter: now the house of mouse is doing damage control. in an employee town hall monday the company promised a listening tour, a task force and efforts to oppose similar legislation in other states. the company tells nbc news in a statement, we know how important this issue is for our lgbtq plus employees and we college our ongoing support of the lgbtq plus community in the fight for equal rights. this employee plans to join his disney world co-workers in the expected walkout. >> once this bill is signed it's basically forcing people that are lgbt back into the closet. >> reporter: the frustration is extending beyond theme park gates to other disney-owned properties including espn where

two broadcasters held a two-minute moment of silence on air during the ncaa women's basketball tournament over the weekend. >> we're going to take a pause from our broadcast to show our love and support for our friends, our families and our colleagues. >> blayne alexander reports for us. still ahead this morning we will return to our coverage of the war in ukraine. nbc's richard engel brings us the latest from the country's capital city. earlier this month the world was introduced to a young ukrainian girl who sang "let it go" from the hit "frozen" from inside a bomb shelter. she inspired the world and now she's becoming the voice of hope for her country. we will show you her latest performance when "morning joe" comes right back. t back

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just use this code and order on the subway app! at the white house as the sun comes up over washington. a lot going on on this tuesday, march 22nd. we continue to follow breaking news. an important suburb of kyiv is now back under a ukraine's control according to the defense minister there. the ukrainian military also claimed this morning that its forces have killed more than 15,000 russian troops, however, a brutal battle rages on for the key strategic city of mariupol.

ukraine, again, rejecting russia's demand to surrender, but the stalemate is fueling a worsening humanitarian crisis. president biden travels to belgium this week to meet with nato allies where a major topic of discussion will be how to respond if russia resorts to using chemical, biological or nuclear weapons. >> you know, willie, it's so interesting. ukraine is talking about the possibility of 15,000 troops, russian troops, being killed, pentagon estimates have been 5,000, 7,000 killed. there have been some leaks from the russian press suggesting as many as 9,000 have been killed. whatever it is, the numbers are just astonishing, and you do wonder how long russia can maintain a military effectiveness when, i guess -- if 10,000 are killed, let's just

take the low end, 10,000 russian troops are killed, you multiply that by three, they have got at least 30,000, maybe 40,000 wounded. the effectiveness of this fighting force dwindling by the day. >> yeah, it really is. and whether or not it's called a stalemate, as admiral kirby said he was reluctant to use that terms, others have used this, this clearly has undeniably and objectively not gone the way president putin thought it would go. he thought he could install a puppet regime in kyiv and be out by the end of the month. the ukrainians have showed a will to fight, the sanctions have crippled his economy and as you point out the military is not doing the job that putin thought it would do. the violence does continue in ukraine, president biden also now warning americans of potential russian sign air tax against u.s. targets. we were just talk being that with secretary jeh johnson. nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel has

more from kyiv. >> reporter: ukrainians are proving if there is anything they hate more than russia's invasion, it's russian occupation. keir son is one of the few cities russian forces have managed to capture. the people here are russian speaking and before the war they had a reputation for being pro-russian but instead of welcoming the foreign troops with open arms, russian soldiers had to open fire to drive ukrainians back. shooting mostly in the air, injuring several people. president zelenskyy this morning praised the bravery in kherson and told ukrainians they will need a lot more of it. playing an air raid siren zelenskyy said ukrainians should not be afraid of the sound, but get used to it. president biden is also warning of tough times ahead, saying

vladimir putin with his offensive stalled may try to regain momentum by using banned chemical or biological weapons. >> i guarantee you they're also suggesting that ukraine has biological and chemical weapons in ukraine. that's a clear sign he's considering using both of those. >> reporter: biden also warning americans of possible cyber attacks. >> the magnitude of russia's cyber capacity is fairly consequential and it's coming. >> reporter: but adding putin's harsh tactics will impact ukrainians most of all. >> the more his back is against the wall the greater the severity of the tactics he may employ. >> reporter: ukrainians have already seen what russia has done to the city of mariupol, surrounder it, starving it, bombing it, killing thousands. but ukrainians are still keeping their spirits high, cleaning up debris in badly damaged kharkiv,

training new crops of volunteers and even making jokes. this video is a hit on ukrainian social media, an ode to all the brands that have quit russia. ukrainians clearly relishing that putin's russia is ever more isolated, while they, even in suffering, are inspiring the world. >> richard engel reporting from kyiv for us. we were just talking with joe about the manpower issues from russia, that they're losing more people than they thought they were going to lose, it's been more difficult, a greater slog than they thought it would be which is why the concerns are being raised by the biden administration and others that putin may use other tactics to achieve his means. >> yeah, it was interesting yesterday, a pro-kremlin tabloid, a russian newspaper, released numbers it said was from the ministry of defense, leaked numbers that said almost 10,000 russian soldiers killed. that article quickly scrubbed, russian government denies t it's interesting there is a crack

there. other experts believe the numbers are authentic and shows just the significant loss of manpower that moscow is facing to the point where now they've been calling up syrians and libyans trying to draft other people, hoping to get belarus to supplement their forces. minister officials i have talked to say that this is a real issue and they are concerned how much longer these russian mothers, the pressure from home, may build on putin. they can just send young men into combat coming home in body bags if they come home at all. >> yeah, no, absolutely following that angle of the story and what's happening inside russia. joining the conversation, senior fellow at the atlantic council and specific to this conversation ian also served as deputy assistant sec def for european and nato policy under the bush administration. ian brzezinski. >> also with us david ignatius joins us. >> david ignatius, you look --

you look at all the newspapers, "new york times," russian -- russian shells blankets ukrainian capital and port city, the "wall street journal" talks about russia pressing a grinding attack, again, more death and more destruction here. >> and the worst of it is mariupol. >> and then, of course, here. ukrainian -- ukraine refuses to surrender mariupol. their response reminds me of the general in world war ii whose one world answer to surrendering to the germans was nuts, wasn't going to do that. we hear this morning of ukrainians taking back a suburb of kyiv, taking over a highway, and yet as john kirby said, we don't really want to call this a stalemate because of all the death and destruction coming from the skies. what have you heard in the past

24 hours? what are you hearing on the ground in ukraine? >> so, joe, i think describing this as a bloody just horrifying stalemate is right, the newspaper headlines, the photographs we see, the imagery just tells us how vicious this war is. i think u.s. officials see putin facing three basic choices, he can decide that this is a stalemate, that those russian moms just can't bear any more body bags coming home and he can declare victory and settle this. not likely. he can escalate so as to get a more favorable settlement where he gets as much of his original demands as possible, that seems to be what he's doing, escalating on the ground and refusing now to go into negotiations, or -- and this is the really scary possibility -- he can escalate to seek not a settlement, but a win. that he will just keep going and

grinding, grinding this country that we all have grown to respect and admire so much right into the ground. i don't think people know what putin is going to choose, but i think that's a fair summary of the choices that he faces right now. >> let's take door number two for a second there, and that is trying to pick up some property, trying to pick up some ukrainian land so he can grab it, declare victory and go home. it certainly looks right now with russian troops really stuck and in some areas in retreat around kyiv really does look like he's destroying mariupol because he wants that land bridge from russia to crimea. is it looking more and more like that may be his ultimate goal, since his first goal didn't come through? take mariupol, have the land bridge from russia to crimea, declare victory? >> it does look like an

attractive midterm option for him. he concentrates the ground that he holds and wants to hold in the future and he doesn't leave. i'm told by ukrainian sources that in the negotiations that they've been having with the russians that the russians keep insisting that their forces will stay in place. there is no talk about the specific details of withdrawal. so they're there in that land bridge controlling the southern arc, they're there perhaps at the doorstep of kyiv and remaining, and so that's a very unattractive picture obviously for the ukrainians to see their country carved in pieces while they negotiate some kind of a settlement and people will accuse president zelenskyy of a settlement that amounts to capitulation. he is under a lot of political pressure at home not to settle. that's part of why this stalemate -- we're applauding the bravery of the ukrainian forces but the stalemate as it now stands is not a good one.

>> certainly not a good one, especially mariupol and the southern part of the country, mika. that said, ukrainians have to ask why would we allow russian troops to stay here when we're killing them all around kyiv, and actually you have counteroffenses that according to richard engel and reports out of ukraine right now are actually pushing the russians back. they are regaining towns, they are regaining roads. it's a laughable -- a laughable position for the russians to take. >> yeah, at the same time the ukrainian president, ian, says that we are on the brink of survival. they're hurting. as this drags on we look this week to the president going to meet with nato leaders in brussels this week. what do you think so far of what you've heard, but more what are the options for nato from your point of view? >> well, thanks, mika, thanks, joe. you know, the president's visit

to brussels this week is a big one. he's going to be meeting with the g7 leaders, he's going to be meeting with the european council, all the leaders of the eu, he's going to be meeting with his counterparts from the nato alliance. so he's going to be in a position where together with those leaders they will be able to marshall the full spectrum of political, economic and military capacity. the western community democracies can bring on behalf of ukraine. this has to be a gathering that does more than just have rhetoric and messaging. certainly has to be strong messages of determination to protect nato's borders, to do more for ukraine, but that rhetoric has to be backed by action otherwise it won't resonate with effectiveness where it needs to resonate most, which is in putin's mind. >> so something tangible? >> something tangible has to be done. there is a spectrum of things that nato can do. first and foremost they should get back in the game of providing military assistance to

ukraine. it had a relationship with ukraine if this was providing military assistance before the invasion. that through nato has stopped. >> you're saying note toe as an organization. >> as an organization. >> not as individual countries that make up nato? >> exactly. and by standing out of that it's communicating a certain amount of hesitation and that actually bolsters putin's confidence. the alliance should consider a no fly zone. i think it should go further and be part of an international force that creates a humanitarian no conflict zone in the uncontested areas of western ukraine. it could do that in a way that would mitigate the risk of escalation, it would create a safe haven for the millions of ukrainian refugees and displaced persons. i mean, 10 million people have been displaced in ukraine, 25% of its population. they need a safe haven not beyond their borders but on their own territory. it would help ensure the territorial perpetuation of the ukrainian state. that's absolutely essential.

it would enable ukrainian forces to concentrate more effectively against the russians and, above all, it would be a tangible demonstration of western and nato resolve through decisive action which is the only language putin understands. >> willie? >> picking up on that point, david ignatius, what signals from nato, from the world, from the west do you believe putin is watching right now? in other words, he thought he was going to roll into ukraine and come back with a pretty easy victory, he watched the west and president biden rally, crippling sanctions, everything that's being done in terms of putting weaponry in the hands of the ukrainians, but as he pushes further, as he talks loosely about nuclear weapons, what do you think he will be watching that may force him to stand down at some point? >> so i think, willie, if nato can agree on some continued commitment to supply ukraine the weapons it needs, not going as

far as ian is saying with the no fly zone, but continuing to supply the weapons that are working and stopping russian forces i think putin will take that seriously. putin counted from the beginning on nato disunity, splits within nato, he had every reason watching nato's performance over the last two years to think it wouldn't hold together. so far it has. if biden can sustain that and get a nato commitment to keep providing the weapons, keep standing by the economic sanctions that are producing this bloody stalemate, i think that will say to putin you're forced to continue this course and this course is not an attractive one for russia. russia loses every week that this goes further. that's why there is the danger of escalation. staying where putin is is not attractive for him. more deaths, more difficulty for the russian economy. >> david, one final question. what is the white house

response? what is nato's response if there is that escalation and a tactical nuclear weapons or chemical weapons? >> so obviously, joe, sources in the white house and the pentagon just don't want to talk in specific terms about how they would respond, but they're thinking a lot about this issue, they're thinking about how to deter it. i think signals are being sent privately. i think they're trying to seek a language for communicating that that would be an absolutely unacceptable breach. i would note one thing, joe. there is a conflict hotline between the kremlin and u.s./european forces in germany that's precisely to deal with the ukraine conflict. that hotline has not been productive, but people are answering the phone. i think that's just one -- we think of the cuban missile crisis, we think of the danger, the need to communicate, there is at least that communications line in place. >> all right. "washington post" david

ignatius. >> thank you, david. >> thanks so much. let me ask you, jonathan lemire, the same question. what are you hearing around the white house? what happens if vladimir putin sees his troops bogged down on the ground, resorts to weapons of mass destruction? what are you hearing inside the white house? >> this is the number one question that is keeping administration officials awake at night right now, joe, is that if putin were to go down that line, what would the appropriate response be? as we've talked about on this show, we have seen chemical weapons being used in other parts of the world before that did not draw a proportional response and it's unclear what about happen now. there is still a great reluctance from the west, from washington, from nato to be pulled into a significant tit for tat shooting war with russia for all the obvious reasons, how terribly that could escalate. they are still figuring this out. their focus is to deter putin, try to tell him this is unacceptable, to say this is a line that can't be crossed but

as we heard from pentagon press secretary john kirby earlier they don't want to make specific red lines known because they are afraid of what putin could do and what response that could then trigger. certainly it is going to be a topic of conversation this week for the president's trip to europe to try to come up with a consensus among nato allies how to respond to this. as much as this trip is about messaging and for showcasing that unified front, his time in brussels and secondarily his trip to poland, the president needs to make sure that everyone is on the same page in case putin did take this war to a dangerous new phase. >> let's, ian, talk about the short and bloody history of vladimir putin. he goes into georgia, the west does little to nothing. he goes into crimea, he violates the agreement where the ukrainians gave up their nuclear weapons and we guaranteed that

we would protect their territorial sovereignty, we didn't do that. he goes into syria, he levels aleppo, he commits one war crime after another, the united states and the west does nothing. he continues a war in ukraine for eight years, ukraine is begging to get into nato and as jonathan swan said, zelenskyy points out we're told we're corrupt and you let turkey in? you claim we don't have an advanced military, you let month nay grow in? so we have been bending over backwards so not to offend vladimir putin, even in the lead up to this war. and i understand the moves that have been made, but now we're on the precipice of tactical nuclear weapons being used.

they have warned us they're going to use them. just like they warned us they were going into kyiv. >> isn't it inevitable? i mean -- >> so isn't it time for the united states and our nato allies instead of sitting back and saying, oh, we hope he doesn't do this, isn't it time for us to lean forward and say, let us tell you what your world looks like when you cross, yes, that red line? if we cannot call tactical nuclear weapons and chemical weapons against ukrainians a red line in 2022, how sad, how weak and how pathetic is that? why can't we tell putin, you cross those red lines, all bets are off, we're coming into ukraine, we will stay away from russia, we will stay away from the borders, but we're going to shoot at anything that moves if that's what we have to do to protect the ukrainian people

from your weapons of mass destruction and we will destroy the russian military in about 24 hours. so you make your choice, vlad. you make your choice. but understand if you want to talk about a worldwide nuclear war, maybe your generals, maybe the oligarchs around you, maybe they want to rethink it because maybe you want to go down with the ship, but maybe they don't want to. >> well, joe, three quick points in response to what you just said. first of all, on ukraine and nato membership, my goodness, looking at the courage, the valor of the ukrainian fighting forces today, they are demonstrating each day, each hour that this nation was ready for nato membership and the responsibilities that come with t second you articulated clearly and succinctly how the west over the last ten years has basically conditioned putin to not believe that we have the resolve to push back against his aggression. we've conditioned him to be emboldened and he's acting on

that condition. >> let's stop you for one second. people have said -- it's almost like what they said about dick cheney, you know, after his heart attack, it was a different dick cheney. no, it was a dick cheney who saw the pentagon and saw the twin towers attack. that's what made dick cheney different. it was very rational in dick cheney's mind what he was doing. he was stopping a second attack like that from ever happening in his country. putin in his mind this is very rational. they let us do this in grozny, let us do this in georgia, in crimea, they let us do this in ukraine, in syria, they let us do -- they retreated from everywhere and just let us commit mass atrocities. what is irrational about a tyrant thinking if they've let me do it for a decade they're going to let me do it again? >> and that's why your point about drawing a red line is so important but it's important to back up that red line with action. i actually believe the risk of

putin actually using a weapon of mass destruction against the ukrainians is higher, like their resistance today without western intervention. if western forces were in ukraine in a humanitarian no conflict zone i think the likelihood of putin using chemical weapons or worse is lower. >> this is really stressful conversation so thank you very much for that. >> no. no. you know, actually, if you don't mind me just saying what is stressful -- >> yeah. >> -- is us sitting back and waiting for vladimir putin to define the terms of this debate, the terms of this war, the terms by which he's going to use tactical nuclear weapons? he needs to understand if he crosses that red line, if he crosses the red line that we let assad cross in syria, that the consequences will be so grave

for him and for his country that there will be no coming back from it. >> putin is immune to rhetoric. we've conditioned him. now we have to back our rhetoric with action because that's the only thing he respects. >> to try to do things differently. thank you very much, ian, for being on. appreciate it. nas nagt conversation. still ahead on "morning joe," aviation specialists are calling yesterday's china eastern airliner crash simply unprecedented. the very latest on the search for survivors and the plane's critical black box. plus in his opening statement yesterday senator chris coons called president biden's supreme court nominee exceptional well-qualified. he joined us as day two of confirmations gets under way for judge ketanji brown jackson. you're watching "morning joe," we will be right back with more continuing coverage. we will be right back with more continuing coverage.

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are hoping a black box could provide critical clues about what caused a chinese airliner to crash. nbc news correspondent tom costello has the very latest. >> reporter: in southern china anguish and despair as the families of the 132 people on board china eastern flight 5735 are told there is little hope that their loved ones survived. at the crash scene a top priority for investigators is to find the plane's blacks boxes, this he could provide the best clues into what caused a modern jetliner to go down so quickly. chinese dash cam and surveillance video on state tv appear to show the plane's fatal plunge. the flight radar 24 data suggests a terrifying final two minutes of flight. cruising at 29,000 feet the plane suddenly went into a very steep nose drive, plunging 21,000 feet in just over a minute. at 7,400 feet it briefly climbed

then dove again. passengers would likely have been thrown about the cabin. >> i think at this point everything is on the table. there's so many questions and so few answers here. at this point i would not rule out any possibility. >> reporter: outside experts say among the immediate questions did the plane's horizontal stabilizers which provide balance somehow malfunction? was there an autopilot problem? was the plane properly maintained? this was not a 737 max, the plane that crashed in ethiopia and indonesia and was subsequently grounded. data shows it is one of the most reliable passenger planes ever built but with 5,000 in service worldwide including the u.s. every airline that flies the 800 will be eager to learn what caused this crash. >> it's a very new airplane so -- but still new airplanes can be failed by improperly trained crews or inadequate

maintenance or perhaps a design problem. >> reporter: in a statement boeing's ceo writes we are deeply sand nd by the news of the accident and have offered the full support of our technical experts to the investigation. >> that was nbc's tom costello reporting. coming up, a number of americans are taking up arms and joining the fight in ukraine. nbc's jacob soboroff has more on that as our coverage continues right here on "morning joe." rags right here on "morning joe."

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despite the u.s. government telling americans to leave ukraine, some have done the opposite, entering the country to volunteer in the war effort. nbc's jacob soboroff reports from lviv, ukraine. >> reporter: inside a la veef warehouse we met an american who said he showed up here on his own. >> what do you do in ukraine? >> i came for humanitarian aid. >> reporter: david says he is a former u.s. army mehdi and dual

israeli citizen who served in the israeli defense forces. he came to ukraine from southern illinois, he says, to train volunteer medics to treat the wounded. >> these are my wounded, lay down. >> reporter: i bought a plane ticket, no plan, didn't know anybody, i packed a med back, duffle bag full of medical supplies and showed up at the border. >> reporter: he is part of an unknown number of americans who traveled to the country against the explicit wishes of their own government. >> we still do not believe that ukraine is a safe place for americans to go. >> reporter: that message not heeded by another group of americans who volunteered to go into combat. >> i was working as a combat medic and we in our vehicle hit a mine and blew up. >> reporter: and this week ended up casualties themselves near kyiv. >> i can't even count a second between the time that he said there are land mines everywhere and the boom. >> reporter: nbc news can't verify their account nor that of

brimer's but they are not alone. ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy has urged foreign involvement in the war. ukraine has started welcoming foreign volunteers who are coming to our country, he said. i'm sure it will be successful. but their safety is anything but certain. >> yeah, i got some cuts, yeah, i've got some glass in my face. >> reporter: on top of the potential for severe injury or death, experts warn if captured by russians they risk being treated as mercenaries and not protected as prisoners of war. for his part david stands by his decision to come here. why is this guy from southern illinois deciding to put himself in harm's way in a middle of a conflict. >> everybody has the right to live. >> that was nbc's jacob soboroff reporting. coming up, we will be joined

by democratic senator chris coons as day two of confirmation hearings get under way for president biden's supreme court nominee ketanji brown jackson. plus, we will talk to him about the crisis in ukraine. "morning joe" is coming right back. in ukraine. "morning joe" is coming right back i always had a connection to my grandfather... i always wanted to learn more about him. i discovered some very interesting documents on ancestry. this is the uh registration card for the draft for world war two. and this is his signature which blew me away. being able to... make my grandfather real... not just a memory... is priceless. his legacy...lives on.

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i have been looking forward to this day since president biden announced your nomination in february and over the next several days members of this committee will have the privilege of helping introduce you to the american people so that they can gain the sense of confidence that i have in your values, your skills, your competence and the necessity of confirming you to the supreme court. >> democratic senator chris coons of delaware yesterday during the first day of hearings for supreme court nominee ketanji brown jackson. with day two of those hearings set to begin in just a few

minutes, senator coons joins us now. i know, senator, we want to get to ukraine and you've got to get into the hearing room so we will dive right in. what are you hoping to hear day two in the hearings? >> well, yesterday judge jackson maintained her composure as a whole range of senators made opening statements, some of them, like mine, were laying out what i believe to be her remarkable, impeccable credentials, her record, her character and her values, others made a wide range of attacks that were, i think, baseless, two-dimensional caricatures of judge jackson. today she will get to respond. senators will be questioning her in 30-minute rounds and she will be able to answer. and i think she will make quick work of dismissing some of the more outlandish and unfounded suggestions or accusations made by a few of my colleagues. overall the tone and tenor yesterday was positive, very few

republican senators questioned or criticized her actual credentials or record because they are outstanding. >> i was going to say, it struck me as a bit ironic that we got lectures from some republicans saying they weren't going to take this into the gutter and then republicans took this into the gutter saying that the judge was soft on crime and that -- shoo. >> hidden agenda. >> -- somehow was a friend of sexual predators and had a hidden agenda. i thought that was pretty sad and pathetic. >> having had the chance to meet her extended family, parents, brother, i am struck by the fact that she was raised in a strong family, her opening statement began with both thanking her family and thanking god and recognizing that her faith and her work ethic have been central to what success she's had in

life. she came across as a humble, disciplined, highly capable, legally skilled nominee for the supreme court, and frankly, she also got in the introduction an incredibly strong vote of confidence from a retired d.c. circuit court judge, a conservative, a republican, who was in the position to review her rulings on the district court for many years and gave the sort of unqualified letter of introduction before the hearing and then personal endorsement at the hearing yesterday that has been buttressed by letters of endorsement and support from prominent law enforcement organizations like the international association of chiefs of police and the fop. i doubt that the fop and iacp that a range of conservative jurists and judges would be supporting and endorsing anyone who was soft on crime or palled around with child pornographers or was a danger to our children

and several of my colleagues suggested without concrete foundation. >> yeah, that one claim was made by one senator from missouri, it was interesting to note that none of his fellow republicans even backed him up on that argument, but i suspect we will hear more of that today. senator, forgive me for cutting to the chase, but as you with a much this play out, as you watch this candidate present herself, do you have any question that she will be confirmed? >> i don't. i think that the american people as they watch today will see the same judge that president biden saw when he was interviewing possible nominees. someone who's work ethic, experience, qualifications and whose character make her a great nominee for the supreme court. she clerked for justice breyer on the supreme court, he's been a mentor to her for years. one of the roles that he has played as a justice is to help build consensus, to work with people of different backgrounds and values. i'm going to be questioning her

today about her service as the vice chair of the u.s. sentencing commission and some stand out examples of how she worked with conservative members of that panel in the interest of advancing both law and justice. >> and that hearing begins in about 14 minutes. we will carry it live here on msnbc. senator, let me turn the page to ukraine and what we're seeing right now which is the continued attacks by the russian military on civilians inside mariupol, but also across the country, being after places like theaters where clearly marked that children are in there, hospitals, maternity hospitals, humanitarian corridors. putin pushes on, frustrated perhaps, but he continues to attack ukraine. what more in your estimation could and should the united states be doing here? >> the most important thing that president biden can and is doing is to meet with our nato partners. yesterday he had a conversation with the heads of state of the united kingdom, germany, france, italy. he is traveling to europe this

week to meet with our vital nato and eu partners. our strength is our unity and i think in order to be able to convey clearly and forcefully red lines to putin so that his brutal butchery of civilians comes to an end, we need unity in nato to be able to draw red lines and enforce them. we cannot bluff. president biden is being advised by the best and most skilled of our military and intelligence leaders. i trust his judgment here. he knows that we are at genuine risk, that putin will do to ukraine what he and his forces did to chechnya and to syria. seven years into a conflict in syria aleppo was in ruins, hundreds of thousands of civilians had been massacred or displaced and assad has evaded any accountability. if we allow putin to continue to pummel ukraine and to escalate to using potentially chemical weapons or even as you were

discussing earlier on a panel tactical nuclear weapons, the consequences for ukraine, the west and the world will be tragic, but president biden is doing exactly what he needs to do this week, ensuring that nato can speak with one voice to deter putin from his dangerous escalation of this horrible conflict. >> senator coons, good morning, jonathan lemire. you just mentioned chemical weapons, potentially even a tactical nuke. explain to us more about red lines. if that's a red line that putin crosses, what should be the consequence for that action? >> the consequence should be what we can get, strong support across nato for doing. bluntly, we have been successful so far because president biden has been successful in pulling together all 30 members of nato to act swiftly and strongly and a number of other european partners who are not in nato. so, for example, even the swedes and the swiss who sat out the

second world war, who did not take action against hitler, they have joined us in sending military aid and imposing sanctions. putin knows he cannot stand against a united nato and west. if president biden is able to continue to deliver the forceful unity that he has assembled amongst the west, we can deter putin. rather than having me guess about what is the best way to say if he does this, we will do that, i will trust president biden to rely on the advice of american military and intelligence leaders. he knows who putin is and he knows that we need to stop him. over the last decade as he took bites out of first georgia, then moldova, then crimea and the donbas, with he did not do enough as a united west to stop him. this is the moment where we must. i was encouraged by open source public reporting by the "wall street journal" that clarified we are sending advanced surface

to air missiles into ukraine to help them begin to close their sky and defend ukraine against russia. >> all right. senator chris coons. >> thank you. >> as always, thank you so much for being with us. we really appreciate it. willie, on the topic of of who vladimir putin is, breaking news, all of the wire services reporting that russia has sentenced kremlin critic alexey navalny to nine more years in prison, adding even more to his term. trying to keep him, obviously, in jail for his -- for as long as possible. >> and obviously, someone who had an attempt on his life, who was poisoned, survived that attempt, now sits in prison where, by the way, he continues to criticize vladimir putin, and you're seeing the repercussions of that this morning. meanwhile, ahead of his trip to brussels tomorrow, president biden held a call with the leaders of france, germany, italy and the uk.

the group discussed its concerns russia's invasion of ukraine, of course. speaking to reporters yesterday, president biden touted the strength of the nato alliance and warned that putin could resort to using tactics like cyberattacks as the war stretches on. >> i can assure you, nato has never been stronger or more united in its entire history than it is today in large part because of vladimir putin. now, putin's back against the wall, he wasn't anticipating the extent or strength of our unity, and the more his back is against the wall, the greater severity of the tactics he may employ. based on evolving intelligence, russia may be planning a cyberattack against us. as i said, the magnitude of russia's cyber capacity is fairly consequential. and it's -- >> okay. and a russian court has ruled that meta, the parent company of facebook, instagram, and

whatsapp, is an extremist organization. the court banned the country from operating in russia, effective immediately. according to russian state news agency, the extremist label will apply to instagram, facebook, but not to whatsapp. the ruling followed meta's decision to allow ukrainians to call for violence against the russian army in the context of war. russians will not be prosecuted for using the social media platforms, but using their logos in public, such as for an advertisement in a cafe window, can result in 15 days in jail. oil prices spiked yesterday as the european union considers joining the united states in banning crude oil from russia. eu leaders will consider whether or not to impose the embargo during a series of meetings this week as the west looks for new ways to punish vladimir putin. earlier this month, eu leaders

ruled out joining the u.s. in the ban due to the impact it could have on industries already grappling with record high prices. eu leaders have already committed to cutting russian natural gas use by 66% this year. and now, to the ukrainian girl who went viral for a video of her singing a song from the movie "frozen." and she sang it from a bomb shelter in kyiv. she's capturing hearts once again. joining us with more from warsaw on this, nbc news correspondent kelly cobiella. kelly? >> reporter: well, mika, her name is amelia, and she's now safely made it to poland with some members of her family, and she is stunning the world again with yet another emotional performance, this time, her country's national anthem in front of a live audience of 12,000. ♪♪

>> reporter: 7-year-old amelia once again a voice of hope for ukraine. the young refugee taking center stage in front of a packed stadium in poland over the weekend, opening the "together with ukraine" charity concert with her country's national anthem. thousands in the crowd lighting up their phones as the special little girl with a very big voice sang her heart out. earlier this month, the world was first introduced to her and her unwavering voice in this now viral video. ♪♪ >> reporter: as russian forces advanced into kyiv, amelia seen breaking into song in the middle of a bomb shelter in the capital city with a powerful rendition of "let it go" from the movie

"frozen." capturing the hearts of millions, including idina mensal, along with the caption, we see you. we really, really see you. amelia now safely in poland with her grandmother, brother, and mother. her father reportedly remains in kyiv. the 7-year-old said her dream was to sing on stage one day in front of an audience. that dream now realized, an unexpected voice lifting up an entire country. and part of that anthem says -- the translation i'm told is, let's stand together to save our country. amelia helped to raise more than -- or nearly $2 million in that benefit concert. mika? >> nbc's kelly cobiella, thank you so much for bringing us that report, and that does it for us this morning. of course, we'll be here tomorrow morning to continue our coverage of the russian invasion of ukraine. right now, hearings are set to

resume for scotus nominee ketanji brown jackson. msnbc will be following that live. chris jansing picks up the live coverage of the supreme court hearings after this final break. hearings after this final break. (music throughout)

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♪♪ hi there, i'm chris jansing live at msnbc headquarters in new york. it is tuesday, march 22nd, and it is an historic day, because in just moments, it's the start of what's largely considered to be the most pivotal day of confirmation hearings for supreme court nominee ketanji brown jackson. what could be a grueling line of questioning from the senate judiciary committee as democrats press to quickly confirm the first black woman in the court's 233-year history. we will simultaneously keep a close eye on the war now day