getting up way too early with us on this wednesday morning. tomorrow, we'll have complete coverage of the president's trip in brussels. he'll be on the ground while we're on the air, as well as more from the supreme court hearings "morning joe" starts right now breaking news overnight, nbc news confirms ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy will address tomorrow's nato summit president biden departs for brussels in just a few hours from now, where he is expected to announce new sanctions against russian lawmakers. also, new reporting this morning on how the ukrainian military has managed to beat back russian forces and make gains despite being outmanned and outgunned. the other big story of the morning, day three of supreme court confirmation hearings for judge ketanji brown jackson. yesterday's questioning lasted more than 13 hours, and today she's back for another round

>> it was fascinating. >> i was embarrassed. >> punctuated by some remarkably stupid moments which we really don't want to give any attention to, seriously. the stupid lives within many of those people that questioned her yesterday. but, willie, zelenskyy speak at nato, i think this is fantastic. you never know which churchill you're going to get. you can get the polite zelenskyy speaking to the united states you can get the zelenskyy speaking to canada, calling the prime minister justin. or you can, of course, get him speaking to the german parliament where politely after he leaves says, on to the next business sometimes he throws some very high, like 98 mile an hour fashi fastballs underneath the chin.

>> he's thrown chin music to world leaders as he has been become increasingly frustrated that certain things are not flowing into ukraine that he'd like to see. they have been inspirational and have moved the countries when he spoke to parliament and addressed the history of the uk, talked about churchill when he addressed the united states congress and talked about the impact of 9/11, saying this is our 9/11, except worse effectively, it did move the members of congress i.mentcongrs it moved the members of parliament we saw the standing ovations, and it led to movement president biden leaves from joint base andrews three hours from now, and he will land this afternoon for what is a potentially historic meeting with members of nato in the address tomorrow from president zelenskyy. could change the dynamic of the west as it approaches this war in ukraine >> you know, he's always reading his audience obviously, whatever he says is for domestic consumption so if he is going after the

united states, he may go a little more lightly because he does understand the massive amount of arms but he's alone the ukrainian people feel alone. they feel betrayed by nato they wanted membership for a very long time you know, they see turkey in there, where they're being told they don't have enough democratic reforms they see, what, northern montenegro in there, saying they don't have strong enough defense. so, yeah, there is resentment, and they play off that he plays off of that to inspire the country. >> he does i mean, we have to remember, as recently as last october, nato reminded in its statement that ukraine was in the waiting room to join nato so you can understand why they think, well, we might not be in nato, but we should kind of be treated like we're almost in nato. >> right. >> there is no sign that we're going to intervene, i think wisely i suspect the curveball he is going to throw is over germany's

reluctance to agree to an oil embargo. olaf scholz, the ger man chancellor, said it'd throw hundreds of thousands of germans out of work, and we can't do this we can take two, three years europe is spending $1 billion a day to russia. $1 billion a day. >> this will all be on the table at the nato summit, which the president will be leaving just a few hours this morning onthis wednesday, march 23rd. so let's get into the very latest there is new reporting this morning on how ukraine is pushing back against russian forces in the air and on the ground as the ukrainian army makes a push to retake territory in the southern region of kherson, satellite imagery shows russia withdrawing most of its helicopters from a key airport in the area this week. experts tell "the new york times" it could be a sign of setbacks for the russian military the "times" reports military analysts were surprised that

ukrainian forces have been able to keep the russians from gaining air supremacy. a spokesman for ukraine's air force tells the people how they lure russian aircraft into traps. quote, we've been effective in the sky because we operate on our own land the enemy flying into our air space is flying into the zone of our air defense systems. on the ground, ukrainian forces continue to defend the capital, retaking a suburb of kyiv yesterday. a u.s. defense official says russian forces have been unable to advance and are essentially in the same place they were last week at this time. the pentagon believes russia's combat power, which was at 150,000 troops at the start of the invasion, has now dipped below 90% for the first time officials have said losing 10% of a military force renders a single unit unable to carry out

its combat mission and yesterday, the ukrainian military said it had killed more than 15,000 russian troops and had destroyed more than 500 tanks, 1,500 armored vehicles, and almost 100 aircraft, and more than 120 helicopters. u.s. officials say russian forces are struggling on many fronts from supply lines to logistics. according to the "times," quote, the pentagon has seen that indications that some russian troops had been evacuated because of frostbite joining us now, one of the reporters on the this story, pentagon correspondent for the "new york times," john isman an iraq war veteran and explosives officer also with us, general twitty he served multiple tours in iraq and afghanistan. prior to his retirement in 2020, was deputy commander of the

united states european command and at the big board, national security analyst for nbc news and msnbc, clint watts clint, we can start with the very latest on the ground, what do you got >> it is pretty remarkable i want to talk about a couple areas here that report, it's out to the west this is the corridor of bringing in supplies. russian forces, this was three week ago now in terms of this convoy breaking up here. they've tried to move around and establish these positions. they've not made much ground now, you see ukrainian forces pushing back, essentially with counterattacks here, right outside of kyiv. this was a major hot spot yesterday. you could see intense battles here further to the west, the ukrainians essentially are taking the area back in here separately, in the east which has been an intense battle all

the way through, this is izyum, the battlepo point where you're seeing the russians connect their troops from north and those out of the donetsk there are military officers of the russian army being killed here over the last week. significant losses in armor formations in the south, which is where you started off, mika. in mykolaiv, kherson is what we saw in week two. russians coming out of crimea, taking kherson this is where the mayor was replaced, and they were trying to talk about a breakaway republic then you saw them try to advance to mykolaiv. again, this was such a critical battle for them. they lost. russians lost in voznesensk. they tried to advance an entire tactical group major devastation like you've seen seen. ukrainian defense forces, citizens of the town, defending

the forces and stopping it if the russians cannot advance this direction, they will fail in the south to achieve the bigger goal. which is to move around here and cut off ukraine. i'm not sure they can ever do this at this point across the entire country, they have a major logistical disaster on their hands, trying to resupply in up to four or five different corridors. they're failing at each of those in terms of the resupply. >> clint, stay with us i want to go through some of this, john, from your fantastic reporting. the army is shrinking, possibly by over 10%. they're having nightmare problems with logistics. generals are getting killed left and right. then, you know, russian soldiers going home with frostbite.

we heard that's what happened with the germans we heard that's what happened to the french when napoleon went into russia. they're not even prepared to fight in cold weather. the question is, how were they so ill-equipped for this battle? >> well, i think -- >> for this war. >> one thing that is clear, russia expected this to all go very quickly, to be in kyiv in even as quick as two days. >> right. >> they're still no closer than 15 kilometers to kyiv right now. in a way, if you take that as your organizing principle for this operation, it almost makes sense that they're this ill-prepared >> right. >> because they wouldn't have, you know, perhaps thought to bring some of these items, these supplies they would need for a longer battle. >> right the thing is, we understand, you know, there were reports that some troops were coming across the border with mres that expired in 2002. the equipment is not holding up.

dh doesn't this raise a much larger question about, again, going back to history, one of the reasons the russians were pushed as quickly as they were across their country by hitler in june of '42 is because stalin had p purged his generals. i keep reading day in and day out how putin has never trusted his generals he's never trusted the army. he's never -- so he always saw them as potential challenge. this seems like such a systemic problem, top to bottom is that what it looks like from what you read about the russian army >> i think one of the biggest issues that the pentagon certainly has brought up is lack of a senior nco core, a professional nco core in the russian army so those would be the people that would be insisting on supplies, arranging logistics,

and responsible for tact ical maneuvering of smaller units with that lacking -- >> by the way, culture problem, right, from the beginning. >> that's right. >> i remember on the eve of the invasion, having a general looking at tanks moving through, down the highway, and saying, you can look how this formation is this is a serious problem. they lack discipline they lack the sort of culture that u.s. troops have. >> i think, certainly, there's reasons to believe they lack a robust maintenance program for their vehicles they lack a lot of training. some folks have been saying it looks more like a significant army on paper rather than, you know, on the ground when it comes to fighting. there's a lot of reason to, you know, question the tactics the russian army has, you know, been using, and i think, you know, one thing -- i was looking back

through my phones of the briefings we've gotten on march 2nd, we have the pentagon saying there's no significant changes on the ground the next day, march 3rd, was the first time that the pentagon used the word "stalled." they have used the word "stalled" almost every day since then you know, here we're almost three weeks later. >> wow. >> general twitty, what's also fascinating about this is the extent to which even members of the russian military saw this coming there's a front page piece in john's newspaper, "the new york times," talking about one general who wrote a letter in january to putin and others and a group of retired generals and active generals, saying the war would be pointless and extremely dangerous. laying out, effectively, what we're seeing right now, talking about how it'd rally nato. all the downside to it here we are, having that play out in front of us so as a general, what is your assessment of where russia is militarily right now and the effort that ukraine has made to push back and now even retake some ground? >> yeah, so what you're seeing

is when you take a look at ukraine, it is truly a professional force the u.s., particularly our u.s. special forces, they've been training the ukrainian army for quite some time. roughly around 20 years. all of nato pretty much have been training the ukrainian army not to mention, they're battle hardened because they fault the russians down in the donbas. so you have an experienced army there, and you have the army who has the will to fight. they know why they're fighting the end of the day, it is all about democracy for them so this is their will to survive and will to live in a democratic country. on the russian side, none of this surprises me. i've been watching the russians for years. i just departed, just retired from the army as the deputy commander, united states european command what i will tell ya, they have all the sophisticated tools to

be a well-armed army, a well-armed military. what they don't have is the training most of the time, when you take a sophisticated or professional army, they are trained in large-scale maneuver, large-scale combat operations. they're trained also in the integration of not just air but group and so forth you're not seeing any of that. other indicators that show that they're unprepared and untrained, they're firing indiscriminately at places you mentioned frost bite you mentioned lack of logistics and so forth but all these things are fundamental to being a professionalized military force. oh, by the way, you mentioned a non-commissioned core. we empower in the united states army our non-commissioned officer core to lead young troops into battle

you're not seeing any of this here as well as our generals, our generals have to lead from the front. they have to have a presence they have to have the strategic savvy to get this mission done then the final thing i will tell ya is, the russians need to know what they're fighting for. i'm not so sure that they understand what they're fighting for. if they did, maybe that would strengthen them a little bit more to do better than what they're doing. at the end of the day, it's about professionalism, and i just don't see it with the russian military. >> you know, gene, when we were growing up, we knew about the battle between the east and the west. >> right. >> the soviet union, the united states these are young kids who have grown up influenced by the west, who want to be a part of the west, just like ukrainians want to be a part of the west they don't remember the old

soviet union dh they don't remember the empire a lot of them didn't even know they were going into battle. >> exactly they thought they were going on a training exercise. >> how else could this end for the russians >> well, it's a good question. that's the question, right how will this end for the russians it is not going anywhere near the way they planned you know, they still have all this artillery they still have all these dumb and a few smart bombs that they are able to lob into civilian areas. it is a campaign of terror, more than anything else right now. >> right. >> but it is killing people every day, and it's absolutely brutal so on the one hand, as a professional army, they're clearly not performing well. on the other hand, you know, it's bombs going off in shopping centers and apartment buildings

being absolutely devastated and morgues filling up so this whole thing is a war crime right now. >> right. >> it's not actually a war yet, how do you stop that? how do you get at that artillery? how do you get at what they're doing and doing, if not successfully, at least lethally? >> that's obviously going to be discussed at nato today. jeffrey, it's aleppo, it is indiscriminate bombing of civilians. it is interesting, talking about the pentagon assessments and the assessments when we have -- as we've been talking to people, they say, well, you know, the russians aren't doing well right now. but they're a very powerful army but they're going -- this is a much bigger problem than them just readjusting and bringing in reinforcements again, it is a problem of culture. it is a problem of maintenance

it's a problem of the will to fight. right now, these troops are running out of time. they were sitting on -- they were sitting on the border of ukraine for months in freezing weather. >> you know, it is interesting on the one hand, they lost 10% of their fighting capacity that's the technical definition of decimation. i mean, it is a serious thing. >> right. >> on the other hand, the worse it gets for the russian army, the worse it gets for the ukrainian people. >> right. >> that's the issue. what russia has that ukraine doesn't is endless ordinance, we think. and more to the point, the will, the militia's will to use an incredible amount of ordinance, incredible amount of destructive power on ukrainian civilians. >> how much is that -- for a poor country, how much is this war costing? i remember, of course, being the

deficit hawk i am, when trump went after syria, and i thought he needed to go after syria, i heard how much those missiles cost i gasped and said, my god, that was an expensive night russia is doing this every day they're broke. not only is it time, how much longer can they afford to do this >> remember, russia has proven over the censturies an enormous ability to suffer pain on its people to achieve strategic goals. they lost 20 million people in world war ii. >> right. >> we don't know what's happening inside putin's circle. we don't understand precisely what's going on in terms of civil society, what remains of civil society, in russia but, you know, i think it is fair to say that they're not going to stop. like i said, the worse it gets for the russian military on the ground, the more danger we see,

generally in the region, including nato, and the more danger we see more actual ukrainian civilians. it doesn't seem like putin is going to wake up one morning and say, you know what, it didn't work going to go home, figure this out. that's not in the cards. >> willie? >> the coastal city of mariupol, which has been absolutely devastated is now being shelled by the russians from the sea according to a senior pentagon official, around seven russian warships in the sea of azov joined the attack and began to fire on the port city in the last 24 hours. the naval strikes come in addition to weeks of land and air attacks that have been pounding the city. this as local officials allege russian forces yesterday captured 15 rescue workers and drivers from a humanitarian convoy who were attempting to get supplies to the city mariupol has been facing some of the worst attacks in recent weeks, as we've been showing you. president zelenskyy yesterday said the city is, quote, being reduced to ashes

around 100,000 residents still are trapped there. the capture of mariupol could allow moscow to pin down ukrainian forces in the east and cut them off from the capital of kyiv and the country's west. clint watts back at the board. with the increasing frustration from russia, vladimir putin, he is firing officers, generals, cracking down at dissent back at home, what is his next move now as he sees his conventional forces are not getting the job done, at least at the rate he expected them to what is the fear about his potential next move and where this goes? >> so several key things, i think, willie. over the last couple of days we've seen, the first is in and around the axes around kyiv, you're seeing them dig in forces, essentially putting out mine fields. if eyou're advancing, you don't put out a defensive position it suggests they're bog doged dn

in kyiv. i don't like the term stalemate, separately in this region, there are intense battles going on if the russians, and we should take note of this, they have a lot of combat power. if they link these forces together, they can get donbas, the eastern portion. in the south, they cannot hold kherson. kherson is the town they took initially. that's the report we started off with, about aircraft being removed. you can get into a situation here in two three weeks, where if russia cannot continue to resupply the battalion tactical groups, can't, you know, regenerate their forces, they're talking about bringing in mercenaries or the belarusian military, all going to be vastly worse in terms of capability than the russians. then you get to one of two things i'd look for this in the next two weeks. one, does putin and his administration signal a change in terms of what they'd negotiate for? do they start to kind of move back towards a position with

ukraine where they might settle and just try to take a portion of ukraine, or does putin again double down? at home, he's taken a lot of resistance from retired generals, retired intelligence officials who are starting to speak up about the losses that are here the officer deaths are stacking up those can't be hidden back home the way the lower ranks can. that brings the question, what would he do to win or bring the west and ukraine to the negotiating table? that's chemical weapons and nuclear weapons. i think in the next two to three weeks, they'll see this shape up at this point, i just don't see the russians advancing i don't know how they would ever hold >> general twitty, it does look as if, over the past week, you look at the map and it does look like putin, at the very least, if he can't get kyiv, he wants a land bridge between russia and crimea so he's willing to reduce mariupol to ashes. two days ago, that seemed like a

possibility. now, you've got the ukrainians making progress in the south going into kherson, driving the russians off there as clint said, isn't all of this starting to look less and less likely for putin if we continue in this direction? >> absolutely. let me just make a couple of points number one, the way i see this fight, there are only two strategic objectives that need to be taken. one is kyiv, obviously that is the seated government. you have to take kyiv if you want ukraine number two is the city of odesa. that gives access to the black sea. that's where all commerce and goods come in to support the ukrainian people when you look down there at the south, you can tell that he's trying to make his way up to odesa and on across with that land bridge you spoke of in.

a couple of points that i would make here. every single city that he takes, you have to keep boots on the ground all of those cities. if you don't keep boots on the ground, then the chances that the ukrainians could come back and retake those cities are very high and likely. so as he moves up to all these little cities and takes them, he's sapping away the combat power needed to be able to do things like odesa and to be able to do things like kyiv a better strategy, in my view, would have been to go for kyiv, go for odesa, bypass all these other cities once you get kyiv and odesa, then work your way outward to these other cities and take those down but now, as you can see, he's stalled there in kyiv for many reasons. number one, he's sapping away

his combat power dealing with these other small towns. but the other is that all the undisciplined problems we just spoke of earlier >> all right retired u.s. general stephen twitty, thank you so much. clint watts, thank you, as well. greatly appreciate it. john, any final thoughts from what you're seeing on the maps >> well, i mean, as far as we know, there are several thousand russian soldiers who have died, several thousand more who are wounded. the united states and other allies continue to pump in anti-tank guided missiles, anti-aircraft missiles that are all portable and all capable of destroying russian ground and air vehicles so i've been thinking, is it a question of whether the russians are going to run out of, you know, tanks and armored vehicles first? i don't know the u.s. is pumping in as many missiles as it can to make that happen. >> we heard they resorted to hypersonic missiles because they're running out of guided missiles that's one of the operating

theories of the pentagon right now. >> it is and i think the hypersonic missile thing should be taken with a little bit of a grain of salt the missile the russians are referring to is not of the type that the united states is trying to develop it is a modified -- my understanding is it is a modified short-range ballistic missile that was air dropped it is able to go faster because it doesn't have to burn fuel getting up to altitude it starts up there and goes faster. >> yeah. >> so the pentagon was indicating that the russian army may be simply grabbing for whatever it has. you know, whether it is desperation or not, the russian, i think, tend to use whatever they have available. >> one final question for you. you're a veteran of iraq >> that's correct. >> we got into baghdad awfully quickly. it seemed easy i remember -- do you remember the mission accomplished banner? i remember the -- i remember all of us thinking and hearing jon

stewart going, my god, my child's middle school is going to be named after george w. bush what am i going to do? that was the early stages of the war. that was the easy part then i remember waking up one morning a couple months later, and an 18-year-old american kid gets his head shot off guarding a university then somebody else, another american, is blown up a week or two later. then it begins putin hasn't even gotten to the difficult part of this as the general was saying, he can reduce the towns to ashes, but he doesn't have the troops to put there and occupy them even if he does, what happens to them the ukrainians won't let them live that's why i -- this seems to be a tougher situation for him than iraq was for us. >> well, you know, the ukrainians have been actively organizing territorial defense forces, taking people who are generally coming out of civilian life, giving them small arms training, but these missiles

that the united states and the uk are giving, the javelin missiles, are more than capable of destroying any vehicles the russians have. because of the ground conditions, the russians are largely sticking to paved roads. that means that those are places they can be targeted and can be killed. >> yeah. john, thank you so much for being with us. we greatly appreciate it so this is how it's set up gene set it up perfectly well. the context of today's nato summit the russian military is getting humiliated every day on the ground, yet from the air, putin is indiscriminately killing ukrainians who are undergoing extraordinary suffering. so that's the backdrop of the nato summit. zelenskyy is going to come, and what is he going to ask for that nato can provide to stop

indiscriminate shelling, some of it coming from inside of russia? >> i think we have to remember that these brilliantly effective anti-tank missiles, anti-helicopter, handheld rocket launchers, they're not able to get the russian air force. >> right. >> ukraine lacks a proper air defense system za nmsz elenskyy has been askina air defense system and not yet receiving one. there has been some suggestion that turkey provide the s-400s that its got from russia to ukraine. that's the kind of thing that he can plausibly ask for without us being plausibly accused by putin of intervening in this war. >> why haven't we? >> it is a really good question. >> why haven't we gotten those in there yet >> the re-supplying of the ukrainian air force, they have something like 50 planes left. there is attrition that is quick. they'll need more planes they're going to need more -- if we can't do a no fly zone, which i don't believe that we should,

we can give them the means to attempt to do a no fly zone. just one point, i mean, we're only a month into this war i think there is a tendency here -- i'm no military expert -- but i think there is a tendency here for some confirmation bias that russia is losing a month is not very long it has a lot of resources. >> it's just been harder than they expected. that's all. >> it's been harder. you think back to the second world war. you know, the germans were advancing easily for a year. >> right. >> they then regrouped and took unbelievable losses. >> can i say this isn't 1941, this is 2022 everybody has a phone in russia. the generals find out that their comrades are getting their heads blown off in ukraine mothers are finding out every day because the ukrainian -- >> i'm -- >> there is compensation for the

death in ukraine it is several years worth of income the bitterness is sort of sweetened a little bit, well, quite a lot by russian income standards. 98,000 euros is a lot in russia. >> we'll go live to brussels in a moment, but first, lviv. nbc news correspondent molly hunter joins us live from lviv, ukraine. molly? >> reporter: mika, joe, everyone, good morning i've heard you speaking about the russian humiliation, russian failures,s and lack of russian heart among the troops some of our reporting and talking to people who have been able to get out of mariupol, as we know it's been besieged, blockaded, and really people have not been able to get out and share their stories and testimonies. but people who made it to lviv had interesting things to say about the checkpoints out of the city there are no humanitarian corridors into mariupol. you have to get in a private car

and join a convoy, hopinge ing is safety in numbers then in villages, buses take people to the west for safety. those checkpoints were interesting, and we drilled down and asked people about them. the first couple checkpoints closest to mariupol, closest to the city, were very young soldiers very young soldiers who were friendly, who were confused about why they were there. they were asking questions about what it was like inside. one checkpoint gave the family we were speaking to milk as you get further away from mariupol, you have slightly more professional and older checkpoints. that's when they took our young -- the young woman we were speaking to, took her phone and wiped it of all destruction pictures they asked, why do you have this picture of this house burning? she said, it was my house. they deleted everything. they deleted telegram and tiktok she couldn't leave with any information. as the troops -- as we've been talking about, as russia wants to move from mariupol along the black sea belt to odesa, they can't get past mariupol.

they're having trouble in kherson. you're seeing people protest every single day the response, because russia doesn't have the troops to hold the city right now, is spraying into a crowd the videos, of course, are being shared around the world, mika. >> nbc's molly hunt e thank you v for your reporting this morning. still ahead on "morning joe," domestic situations may be different, but the pressure is still the same we'll dig into what is at stake for president biden and the nato allies ahead of tomorrow's big meeting. plus, why patience could be the secret weapon in defeating vladimir putin and russian forces in ukraine. also ahead, what judge ketanji brown jackson can expect later this morning as she faces -- >> more dumb questions >> so embarrassing >> i have to say, grade yourself on a scale of 1 to 10 as a christian? seriously? >> come on now they're trying to make a point. >> oh, it was a stupid point.

>> maybe there will be more of that today as she faces another day of questions from lawmakers. as we go to break, a throwback to 1997, when then senator joe biden delivered a speech at warsaw university, as poland was poised to join nato in his closing remarks, biden said, quote, throughout history, your soldiers endeavored to fight and die, as they said to eloquently, for your freedom and for ours i hope the polish people remain firm in their commitment to defending democracy, both at home and in the larger western community. 25 years later, the president will be back in poland this week, as that nation helps lead nato's united defense against oppression we'll be right back. this is vuity™, the first and only fda approved eye-drop

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♪ welcome back to "morning joe. 6:40 in the morning. still dark at the white house in washington president biden leaves for brussels ashort time from now, 2 1/2 hours, ahead of a meeting with nato leaders tomorrow and a visit to poland on friday. during the president's trip, he may announce plans for the united states to permanently maintain an increased number of troops in eastern europe, including in poland. biden and his european counterparts also expected to announce new sanctions against russia, as well as new measures to tighten existing sanctions. joining us from brussels, nbc news correspondent josh letterman. here in new york, the host of "way too early" and white house bureau chief at "politico," jonathan lemire. josh, i'll begin with you in brussels what do we expect to hear from the president tomorrow >> reporter: willie, the u.s. and western allies are gearing up to slap new sanctions on

president putin and the russian government when they meet in brussels later this week the million dollar question now is whether europe will be able to follow the lead of the u.s. in banning imports of russian oil and gas, something that has been a hot topic of debate at the european union this week as they try to figure out what more they can do to put economic pressure without making extremely difficult problems for the european populations here at home there are some real disagreements within the eu about that you have countries like poland and the pal ticbaltic nations t already worked to wean themselves off russian energy. the pols striking a deal with saudi arabia and other countries that say, look, we can't afford to do this the german chancellor, olaf scholz, in a new interview this morning, saying, look, this is not as simple as putting on a thicker sweater in the winter. we are going to have hospitals and nursing homes and schools that could be without

electricity and heat if they actually ban imports of russian energy he said germany will not go along with that. i have to tell you here in europe, we are meeting a lot of people who are very keen on doing whatever they can to try to cut off the funds that putin needs for his war. i want you to hear from a man i met last night, who we met at a demonstration outside of the european council in support of the banning russian energy he told me why he is willing to restrict his own energy use if it means putting more pressure on putin take a listen. >> i am 70 years old, so i always lived in peace in all european countries it is the first time that i see the risk of war on the continent. that's what i am here to manifest, to show.

i am against war, for sure, but i am also here because i think we don't have enough courage to stop the relationship about oil and gas and so on with russia. as a matter of fact, we finance the war. >> reporter: that's the mood here in europe, willie, as nations wonder whether the war on ukraine is something that could threaten security in other parts of the continent to that end, we are expecting when biden meets with nato leaders, there will be new announcements from nato and its allies, not only about supporting ukraine but bolstering nato's own defenses with nato expected to announce it is creating a multi-national battle group to be battle ready and deployed to the eastern flank of nato. it is also possible president biden willannounce sending mor troops on a permanent basis to

eastern europe willie >> president leaves shortly, arrives this evening brussels time and will speak tomorrow josh lederman, thank you so much we were talking earlier about president zelenskyy delivering a virtual address to the nato summit. he talked to the leadership of italy yesterday. he's been sort of making his tour of the globe via zoom he'll give the address tomorrow. as we were discussing yesterday, president biden isn't going on this trip without something to deliver, without something to announce some of what josh just described. what else are you hearing? >> president zelenskyy just wrapped up a speech to japan's leaders this morning yeah, presidents don't go on foreign trips empty handed there will be deliverables here. sanctions likely on some more russian oligarchs and members of their government potentially the establishment of more permanent troops there in nato jake sullivan, adviser, briefed reporters yesterday, and hinted at the idea that josh got to, can europe wean off of russian oil and gas?

it won't be immediate, and it won't be a complete susend to t, but there could be steps to reduce the alliance on moscow, cutting off important funding for moscow's war machine the president and administration was saying in some ways, his entire term is built for this. he took office to restore the allies and faith in america after four tumultuous years of donald trump he has slowly and painstakingly rebuilt the relationships. the alliance, at least for now, is as unified as it has been in decades, as it supports ukraine. there are only so many sanctions they can put down, only soonly many economic reinstructionsre s and weapons that can be sent russia is the only ones who can stop this war. up next, ketanji brown jackson faced 13 hours of

questioning yesterday on capitol hill we'll have the highlights and, frankly, manyof the lowlights ahead of the third and final day of confirmation hearings "morning joe" is coming right back nice suits, you guys blend right in. the world needs you back. i'm retired greg, you know this. people are taking financial advice from memes. [baby spits out milk] i'll get my onesies®. ♪ “baby one more time” by britney spears ♪ e*trade now from morgan stanley. [zoom call] ...pivot... work bye. vacation hi! book with priceline. 'cause when you save more, you can “no way!” more. no wayyyy. no waaayyy! no way! [phone ringing] hm. no way! no way! priceline. every trip is a big deal. -dad, what's with your toenail? -oh, that...? i'm not sure... -it's a nail fungus infection. -...that's gross! -it's nothing, really... -it's contagious. you can even spread it to other people. -mom, come here! -don't worry about it. it'll go away on its own! -no, it won't go away on its own. it's an infection. you need a prescription.

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on a scale of 1 to 10, how faithful would you say you are, in terms of religion i go to church probably three times a year, so that speaks poorly of me do you attend church regularly >> senator, i am reluctant to talk about my faith in this way, just because i want to be mindful of the need for the public to have confidence in my ability to separate out my personal views >> it is really hard for me to find something that is probably less scriptural based, than

asking somebody -- gene, you're a southern guy like me grew up in the church in the south like me. yeah, asking somebody to grade their christianity on a scale of 1 to 10, i never heard a preacher say that you should do that >> -- something like that, you know, the scale? >> holy cow! >> great if she'd say, i'd go to 11 my christianity goes to 11, senator. >> he was harkening back to something. >> but that was -- that was the one time in which, to me, she just stiffened she said, i am not going to answer this ridiculous question. she was just not going to have it. >> so much of training for nominees is, this is the way you don't say anything she's been pretty masterful at that. >> willie, the grievance signaling this week has been -- >> yeah, you trademarked that. >> yeah, what was it

>> republican -- >> republican grievance signaling. rgs, this week, has been on full display. >> whew. >> you had, who was it, feinstein, five or six years ago, said the dogma lives within you for amy comey koecomey -- cy barrett, but they remember that. he's making the judge, yesterday, ask what kind of christian she is on a scale of 1 t to 10 because of the terrible question asked five, six years ago. they brought up brett kavanaugh, and mika and i said it was a disgrace, the stories of the rape rooms and all the garbage that was churned up at the last second to try to derail that nomination okay, we get it, that's been adjudicated. but the judge didn't do that it's just like, one grievance after another, and you did this

in 1998. you did this to -- and why would you do this to abe fortas? it's like, it's not her fight. not her gig. >> they had nothing. >> ask her about the constitution >> well, that line of questioning, which was so grotesque from lindsey graham, was all about amy coney barrett. the point he was trying to make, if you actually hung in there for the however long, 15 minutes, is these were the kind of questions that were being asked of amy coney barrett, now justice barrett. i thought judge jackson handled them well. she took a deep breath from time to time to absorb what she probably wanted to say, and cooly say, this isn't about my faith. i don't apply my faith to the decisions. she cited justice barrett, who said my faith doesn' decisions i make. it is not appropriate to talk here, though she did signal her faith.

asked questions about when life begins by senator cruz, for example. it was a parade of questions about children's books being taught in schools where she sits on the board. again, she calmly said, the board does not select the curriculum for these schools and explained why s the georgetown school where she sits on the board was an important place in washington, d.c., during the time of segregation. so she was calm. she was cool. the way you know they don't have much onu her is when they're asking questions that were asked of different nominees many years ago to make a point. and when they're leafing through the pages ofhe children's books and asking her to comment about them. >> lindsey at the end, gene, he did his best james brown. said he hoped terrorists died at gitmo. then, like, left the stage, fell to the ground. only thing that was missing was somebody, like, tritrying to pu cape on. >> the cape, froze it off.

>> he goes, i hope they die in jail, those terrorists. then he runs off of the stage. it was -- i'm telling you, that's entertainment. turn that up to 11. >> i don't think judge jackson thought it washi entertaining. >> this is what our w founding fathers wanted. ask people what type of christians they are on a scale of 1 to 10. talk about children's books. >> what the heck? i felt uncomfortable. >> babies are racist. that'll get to their constitutional view of how this living document or dead document should be interpreted. what is the "atlantic's" smart take on what happened yesterdayh >> you want a smart take? >> and quippy. >> i already gave you the 11 joke. >> that was good. >> thank you very much. the "atlantic" doesn't have one take, as you know. >> oh, my gosh. this is so boring. save me. >> gosh. >> drowning in the boredom of

jeffrey. >> we are the town square for the american idea.e i would say -- >> oh, my gosh. >> what, you don't like it? >> can i have a sick bag up here? >> i have the list. you're a subscriber. >> all ideas are welcome. look forward to reading. >> not all ideas. ten-step flaps. >> go ahead. >> no, my personal view is it was a deeply superficial hearing. i was really struck by the graspy -- the grasping quality. >> graspy is good. >> the graspy quality. i happen to know that school where she's on the board very well. some of my personal children have attended that cool. >> really? were they malformed by the books they read in kindergarten? >> the place is not a vmi. i want to stipulate, it is not a vmi.

nor is it -- well, i mean, the funniest part about this is that this is a reach of a reach of a reach. the board doesn't choose the books and the curriculum. the librarians pick the books that are in the p library. doesn't make -- but the line of questioning didn't make any sense. >> you were about to say it's not vmi, but it is not dalton. myvm daughter for a couple year went to dalton, and i can assure you, it's not -- all of this, it is just -- >> i got it. >> all right. >> the wokeness level, though, all these attacks on these schools for being overly woke, it's just like the florida bill. like, you know,gay. that was for, like, kindergarten to third graders. >> where we don't usually discuss -- >> yeah. i've had 87 kids, is it, or 4,

feels the same, and i never had anybody talks about it with my kindergarteners. >> it is tweaking democrats. >> thank you, all, very much. >> thanks for the takes from the "atlantic." >> smart hot takes. ahead, two u.s. senators, rob portman and richard blumenthal join us. reminder, the 2022 "forbes" 50 over 50 is open for submissions. there is time to highlight women over 50 as the theme for women's history month, providing healing, promoting hope. it is a tribute to the work of female caregivers and front line workers during this ongoing pandemic and global unrest. >> can i do a 50 over 50 for me? i'd like to nominate jeffrey goldberg. >> how do you know i'm over 50? >> submit a nomination for a woman well over 50 leaving her

greatest impact and paying it forward. forbes.com or knowyourvalue.com and nominate the deserving women. we'll be right back. nominate thg women. we'll be right back. ...the itching... the burning. the stinging. my skin was no longer mine. emerge tremfyant®. with tremfya®... ...most people saw 90% clearer skin at 16 weeks. the majority of people saw 90% clearer skin even at 5 years. tremfya® is the first medication of its kind also approved for adults with active psoriatic arthritis. and, it's six doses a year, after two starter doses. serious allergic reactions may occur. tremfya® may increase your risk of infections and lower your ability to fight them. tell your doctor if you have an infection or symptoms or if you had a vaccine or plan to. emerge tremfyant® with tremfya®. ask your doctor about tremfya® today.

it is the top of the hour. president biden departs the white house in about two hours for the nato summit in brussels, which gets underway tomorrow. we learned overnight that ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy has accepted an invitation to address the summit. as far as the fight on the ground, the pentagon said yesterday's russia combat power has dropped 10%, as ukrainian forces push back and work to regain territory. however, british intelligence released an assessment of night that shows while the battlefield in northern ukraine remains largely static, russian forces

are likely taking this time to reorganize before resuming a large-scale offensive. >> willie, last hour, a lot of fascinating insights from our panel. it really does look like it is a tale of two wars on the ground. the russians are stalled, starting to dig in. yet, from the air, from the skies, of course, pure terror for the ukrainian people. that, i'm sure, is what nato leaders are going to be hearing from president zelenskyy later. >> yeah, that's coming up tomorrow. that speech as the president leaves in two hours to go over to brussels. you're right, all this talk of a stalemate, the struggles of the russian army, may be true, but ukrainians are being attacked, hospitals reduced to rubble. a shopping mall was attacked, as well. yes, russia is not advancing as fast as they wanted to. it's been stymied by brave ukrainian troops and civilians,

but they are still there and inflicting great damage. there's new reporting, in fact, ukraine pushing back against russian forces in the air, on the ground, as the ukrainian army makes a push to retake territory in the southern region of kherson. satellite imagery shows russia withdrawing most of its helicopters from a key airport in that area this week. experts telling "the new york times" it could be a sign of setbacks for the russian military. the "times" reports military analysts were surprised ukrainian forces have been able to keep the russians from gaining air superiority. we've been operating on our own land. the enemy flying into the air space is flying into the zone of our air defense systems, end quote. on the ground, ukrainian forces continue to defend the capital, retaking a suburb of kyiv yesterday. a u.s. defense official says russian forces have been unable to advance and essentially are

in the same place they were last week. obviously, mika, vladimir putin is very frustrated, firing intelligence officials. generals have been killed. now, on the front page of the "new york times," a former general echoing what he says he told putin in january, that this was a, quote, pointless war. interesting to see what happens with him. >> he's definitely confronting a resistance that he did not expect, vladimir putin is. joining us now, peter baker of the "new york times." heidi retiker. and elliott cohen, chair in strategy at csis. and joining us, retired four-star army general barry mccaffrey. good to have you all on board this hour. >> general mccaffrey, a lot coming in over the past 24 hours, talking about the problems russia is having, not only in the north of ukraine but

also in the south. kherson now a counteroffensive, moving against russian troops there. satellite images suggesting helicopters have left and they're having a bit of trouble holding it. i'm curious, gives your perspective. give us context about what we're reading in the papers. >> yeah. well, there's no question that the ukrainian ground forces backed up by armed citizens, territorial militia units, have done remarkably. we've given them some tools, smart munitions. they have used very effectively in direct attacks against the lines of communications of the russian forces. they pushed back the attempt to encircle kyiv at a minimum and stall the attack on odesa, which is all good news. they still lack game-changer weapons systems.

they don't have very good air defense capability, particularly against cruise missiles launched by aircraft. they don't have an anti-ship missile capability to try and strike the russian fleet in the sea of azov and the black sea. they don't have enough remotely piloted lethal drones in there. the switchblade 600, another magic bit of technology, could also make a difference. so i think ukraine is doing very well, but, look, there is zero possibility of putin saying to his generals, "okay, back out of here. unravel the mess you've made." there is zero possibility of, you know, in the course of a month, claiming the russians have been fought to a standstill. it took them two years to take down chechnya. grozny was obliterated before it

was done. the strategic heart of the russian attempt now to take ukraine is terror attacks on civilians. we may not have seen the extent of it yet. they have not used mass artillery. 5,000, 10,000 rounds a day against some of these cities. it is a very grim situation for the ukrainians still. >> yup. general, if you were advising president biden, what would you tell him the united states has to get into ukraine immediately? >> well, we can't build, you know, a similar military force in ukraine to challenge the russians in the air and on the ground and on the sea. it's not going to happen. it takes a year, for example, to deploy patriot missile and get a maintenance package and training and operators. some of this isn't going to change. secretary austin is out there

trying to get s-300 anti-missile systems out of other nato countries delivered. there may be some new technology appearing, but i think the biggest thing president biden has done is political unity, economic sanctions, and now i think what we're going to see nato do is build a strategic threat to the russians in the eastern block of countries. we're going to see enhanced forward presence by the french, by the germans, by the united states and the baltic states, poland, romania, so that putin's generals tell him, hey, look, you have committed 60% of our ground combat power and half our air power to fighting in ukraine. now nato is a strategic threat to us in other locals. that's probably the next step.

>> elliott, let me ask you what your thoughts are, where we are right now. you obviously a few weeks ago talked about what the west needed to do to move beyond phase one. seems leaders followed a lot of your suggestions. where are we right now in your mind, and what is the next phase in helping the ukrainians defend themselves against this unvation? >> i guess i would say the most important thing right now is to do the things we're doing but to do them at the greatest possible scale with the greatest possible urgency. i think it is very hard to tell from outside whether or not that's actually happening. it's clear the russians have been -- people used the word "stalemated," but this is a grinding war of attrition. of course, we pay attention to the sufferings of the ukrainian people, which is appropriate. but the russian army is getting ground up. let's remember they've got -- estimates are actually 75% of their combat power deployed is getting chewed up, as well. it is going to be more dynamic,

i think, than people think it could be. the main thing is continue to pour in the aid. pour on the sanctions. as general mccaffrey said. >> what you're saying is it is a humanitarian disaster for the ukrainian people. it is a military disaster for the russian nation. >> it is a -- it is more than a military disaster for the russian nation. because i think what you're seeing now are things that will reduce russia to being basically a third-rate power. not just talking about the sanctions. i'm talking about the things like literally hundreds of thousands of technically skilled russians fleeing their country because they don't want to be part of this. >> heidi, president putin is frustrated by the way this war has gone. i think he thought it'd be a quick victory. he is increasingly isolated, if you read reports and listen to the pentagon's intelligence. which leads to the question of what he may do next to win this war, whatever winning it looks like in his eyes. what do you expect? does this slog continue from him, as ukrainians begin to take

back now some ground far from what president putin expected, as some of the generals, current and former, speak out publicly in russia against this war, something we probably wouldn't have expected a couple weeks ago. what do you expect to see next from him? >> i think one of the areas that -- where we haven't seen the ball drop yet is on cyber. you've had a lot of telegraphing from the white house that companies should be prepared. that, you know, we should make sure our defenses for any kind of a cyber intrusion are, you know, fully functional. a friend of mine is like, people, save your work. it's time to make sure that you're all prepared for the ball that hasn't dropped. >> well, there's two questions to that. number one, a lot of companies are still invested in russia, still doing work in russia, a lot of companies. i wonder how easy it is to sort

of -- a lot of them, it is not easy to extract themselves, for whatever reasons. then the impact this conflict is having on economies around the world. >> at this summit, you're going to have some additional sanctions announced and some coordination on sanctions, which is really, really important. you know, if you find acme, you know, company owned by an oligarch in one country, you can pass the baton from switzerland to monaco to a different one to actually try and track down more effectively the different assets. the economy in russia, the projections are starting to come out now that you're going to see, you know, a 15% hit to gdp next year. part of that is the brain drain that was referred to. part of it is that you've seen a number of companies, like the boeing and airbus, the major oil

servicing companies. you have a lot of old wells in russia that need to have those servicing companies there. you know, companies are still operating on the ground and are getting enormous pressure from their shareholders right now. if you're going to commit to something like an esg, you know, standard, then what are you doing in russia? that's what shareholders are starting to ask right now. >> right, sure. >> peter, it is a fascinating thing. joe biden seems to be in a constant balancing act and has been the last month. at the beginning, 26% of americans wanted the united states involved in a significant way. now, the numbers have shot up, and the majority want a no fly zone which, of course, most military people believe would start world war iii. but it's the same with europe, same with nato, partners. many of them want to hold back, but you look at the countries on the front line, they want the united states to do more.

they want to send the migs. you look at estonia, latvia, lithuania, they want more troops. it really is a balancing act for joe biden. domestically, he is never doing enough at home or in europe, where he is being pulled in both directions. >> it is. he is trying, of course, to both keep the alliance together, to make a political statement, to resupply the ukrainians as best he can, without going so far as a triple wire that we don't know where it is, that would get us into an escalatory phase with russia. does russia get to a point where they feel the need to lash out at nato allies in a way that'd get us to the world war iii scenario? still a nuclear power superpower. no matter how badly they're doing in ukraine, can do an awful lot of damage to us and our allies if we were to go too far. biden is looking and figuring out, what is the right balance, as you say, to avoid getting too

far down the escalatory chain? >> what is he going to say in -- when he speaks before the nato? >> one, obviously, is to celebrate and reunify or reestablish the unity that nato has demonstrated in the face of russian aggression. that's something that did, i think, surprise vladimir putin. he thought nato was in weakness. we had this disastrous exit from afghanistan. germans had a new chancellor. french are having an election. boris johnson is weak. thinking he could get at us after the fraying ties with trump and europe. the alliance has been brought together in a way it hasn't been in years. he is going to reinforce that. the second thing he'll talk about, of course, is more economic sanctions. we're seeing sanctioning more douma russian members, the parliament, which is symbolic but it is an important statement. in helping of weaning europe off russian energy, it is important. there is talk about the future

deployments in eastern europe to bolster the pols and the romanians, how we can get more forces if there to make sure vladimir putin doesn't trip over the nato wire. >> general mccaffrey, peter is right. one of the unanticipated consequences for vladimir putin of this is the strengthening of nato. he probably should have seen it coming, but he didn't. the west rallying around ukraine. we expect tomorrow president biden will announce an increase in american troops in some of the eastern european nato countries. so what do you see here from vladimir putin, as a military strategist? you've watched this guy for a long time. you see the desperation now that he's operating under. what do you expect from him next from a military point of view? >> look, i think you're right to characterize this as desperation. his options are now extremely limited. once you have screwed up a giant invasion force, logistically, command and control, it's really hard to regain the tentacles of

command. it may be weeks for a pause and restructuring on the battlefield, to replace casualties. 25,000 killed and wounded. trains going back to mother russia with young russian boys torn apart. he is running out of conventional options. it won't cause him to back off. the next step is, what else? we say weapons of mass destruction. normally, we talk about nuclear, but includes chemical, biological, and most of us now include cyber warfare. if he goes to cyber, the escalation may be catastrophic on both sides. we have an enormous, in concert with the brits, offensive cyber capability, which would be brought to bear on the russians. and i think he's now looking at,

seriously probably, chemical weapons. very small military threat to the u.s. army. we have protective gear, early warning systems, medical care, protective masks. you can't provide those to millions of ukrainian civilians. the casualties would be devastating. catastrophic. horrible. my guess is if he goes that route, he will trigger the political impetus to bring nato into the war, to his own harm. so we're at a very crucial point. he's not backing off. 50% of the russian troops don't have frostbite. there's a lot of nonsense floating around there, also. mariupol is going to go under sooner or later. kyiv and odesa, as general twitty pointed out, are key objectives. apparently, he can't get them with conventional military power. >> general mccaffrey, thank you

so much for being with us. >> thank you. >> we greatly appreciate it. professor, your last column in the "atlantic," you wrote something i've noticed around the table here but also in papers. people just don't want to say out loud that the russians are losing. they don't want to say that because, you know, they'll sound like they're being cheerleaders. but if you look on the battlefield, they're losing. >> i think that's the judgment you have to make. you know, the one thing that -- i think your correspondent said that putin is a military strategist. he is not. he is a kgb thug. what those people are good at is manipulation and inducing fear. i think that's the largest part of the strategy. you know, they're suffering terribly. the fact they lost half a dozen generals, that tells you not that they have poor communication security, it means things are so screwed up, you

have to send the generals to the front line because people can't exercise initiative. the fact that the ukrainians are capturing more stuff than they're destroying, which is a staggering thing. and you don't want to seem pollyannish and diminish the suffering of the ukrainian people, but the end of the day, russia is a country with a smaller gdp than italy, with a pretty awful military that's really only good at one thing, which is blowing up cities and killing civilians. >> we really didn't know just how bad, peter, their military was, until now. >> i think we assumed over 22 years, putin had done things to build it up to a more professional, modernized force. i'm reminded of what general mccaffrey said about which he shall -- chechnya. putin comes to power, then he launches a war. he does it through utter

obliteration. i was in grozny, and you hadn't seen anything like it. the scenes of ukraine remind me of the devastating civilian areas and a complete lack of care for, you know, women, children, non-combatants. that's what he is going to do. the problem is, he wins in chechnya through overwhelming force in a small, tiny republic of his own country, and by buying off chechans. they would fight for him by buying them off. >> ukrainians cannot be bought off. you wanted to jump in. >> i think that point is absolutely correct. the thing to remember, too, what chechnya didn't have is a huge country, bigger than france, but the other thing is the ukrainians have a rare area, so to speak, that's the entire west. it includes the united states. it's these vast supplies of weapons. we should be doing more, but we're still doing quite a lot. also things which are a little more sensitive, like

intelligence sharing and information. the ukrainian air force is really good, but i suspect that one of the things that's allowing them to survive is that they have much petter awareness of what is going on than they'd normally have. >> go ahead. >> sorry. >> just to close, i wonder how much more in terms of economic -- how much is left? if this is going to be drawn out, as an opportunity to sanction russia in a way that they would perhaps feel it? >> so i think when we watch the ruble on a day-to-day basis, you know, it's actually stabilized at a much higher rate. but the sanctions that we are putting on are meant to really degrade, long term, medium and long term the russian economy. i think to the extent that you see not only the brain drain, the companies pulling out, but the expert controls actually starting to bite, you're going

to actually end up with, you know, russia as a state of china. it'll have nowhere else to go. one thing we didn't talk about, but this summit is immediately before the eu is supposed to meet with china for an eu-china summit. >> interesting. >> you know, it lends the question, you know, where is china going to end up on this entire war? they've done this, you know, pro-russian neutrality or whatever term you want to call it. >> that wasn't work for them economically in the long run, does it? >> it really shouldn't. eu and the u.s. are its two biggest trading partners. china needs to have the integration with the west. they're sort of playing it both ways right now. >> they are. >> in any case, i think that the russian economy is going to take a massive, massive hit, and i just don't think that putin cares. >> heidi, elliott cohen, peter

baker, thank you, all, very much. peter, stay with us. still ahead on "morning joe," we'll go live to brussels ahead of president biden's trip to meet with nato allies. plus, there must be an end game for the russian invasion. as anne applebaum writes, it should be a ukrainian victory. we'll read from her new piece in the "atlantic." as we go to break, a report from the "guardian" highlights the global outreach under way by ukraine's first lady, olena zelenska. wriing in a newspaper, the 44-year-old thanked france's first lady and the spouses of other leaders for helping to ensure sick children reached safety. she also paid tribute to europeans who have been caring for ukrainian refugees, saying they deserved the collective nobel peace prize. her social media channels are packed with inspiring stories of survival and raw images of what the ukrainian people are

enduring. when asked about the role of women in the war, she replied, our resistance, as our future victory, has taken on a feminine face. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. customizes your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need? like how i customized this scarf? check out this backpack i made for marco. only pay for what you need. ♪liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.♪ we're hoping things will pick up by q3. yeah...uhhh... [children laughing] doug? [ding] never settle with power e*trade. it has easy-to-use tools and some of the lowest prices. get e*trade and start trading today. brilliant and meticulous get e*trade with top-flight academic qualifications. truly exceptional. ketanji brown jackson, from harvard law school to clerking for the supreme court to federal judge. confirmed by senators from both parties. three times. even former speaker of the house paul ryan said, ryan: i know she's clearly qualified,

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♪♪ that is a cellist staging performances against the backdrop of destruction in kharkiv and posting them on social media, in the hope they'll encourage charitable donations for humanitarian aid and to assist in rebuilding that city that he loves in ukraine. in her latest piece for the "atlantic" entitled "ukraine must win," anne applebaum argues ukraine and the democratic

powers must worse to the only acceptable end game. quote, a victory for ukraine really will be a victory for all who believe in democracy and the rule of law. citizens of existing democracies and members of the democratic opposition in russia, cuba, belarus, and hong kong will all be emboldened in the case of a russian victory. tactics would be applied all over ukraine, creating mass terror, mass violence, and instability for years to come. yes, if we accept that outcome, autocrats from minsk to beijing will take note that genocide is allowed. russia wants us to be so afraid that we are crippled by fear and cannot make decisions, that we withdraw all together, leaving the way open for a russian conquest of ukraine and eventually poland or even further into europe. putin remembers very well an era when soviet troops controlled the eastern half of germany, but the troops will not decrease if russia carries out massacres in ukraine. it'll grow.

it is not our war was something we might have been able to say three weeks ago. now now. that piece, mika, from anne applebaum in the "atlantic." in his latest piece for the "daily beast" entitled "u.s., ukraine, and nato have a secret weapon against russia, patience," david argues the longer the war in ukraine rages on, the more the kremlin stands to lose. he writes this. there will be atrocities, in fact, because putin recognizes he cannot achieve either his gel of swift victory, nor can he afford the costs of protracted urban warfare to take key cities or hold them against an insurgency. it is only through atrocities that he can hope to break the will of the people of ukraine and pressure them into settling for some cease-fire terms the russians might find acceptable. the problem for the west is that such atrocities will certainly trigger increasing pressure to

do more for ukraine, and in doing, they vastly increase the risks of military confrontation between russia and nato and the even greater losses of life and property that would likely entail. the western strategy demands time. the russians feel time is the one thing they cannot afford. the consequence is that in the very near future, this already horrific war is likely to grow even more intense and its human toll is likely to soar. >> peter, time is on the west's side. >> yeah. >> time is not on russia's side. but time is also not on the ukrainian's side. >> right. >> if you look at, again, the war crimes that are being committed against the ukrainian people every day, it is a real conundrum. >> well, you see this extraordinary devastation of civilian areas, and you're

right, i think that time is, in fact, working against russia. they had lost the advantage of the shock and awe expectation people had for them. now the grinding nature of the war exposed them as more of a paper tire than they had been. it doesn't mean they can't ultimately win. they do still have, of course, superior fire power. they have the will of vladimir putin to do things that ordinary commanders wouldn't do, in terms of civilian destruction. general mccaffrey mentioned 25,000 russian soldiers so far reported wounded or killed. 10,000 reported to be killed. if that is the case, that's already, in a few weeks, two-thirds of the entire death toll the russians have reported from the afghan war when they fought there for ten years. that's more in three weeks than we, the united states, lost, the fatalities in iraq and afghanistan combined in 20 years. at some point, there's a lot of mothers and families back in russia who are losing sons and are going to be pretty -- you

know, that'll change the dynamics at home in mother russia, too. >> it really is, willie, i think it is hard for us to get our arms around what a disaster this has been militarily for the russians. you look at those numbers. you can actually look at it this way, too. twice as many russians have died in three weeks than american troops died in combat in iraq and afghanistan combined. >> again, the hubris of vladimir putin thinking he was going to make a decision, roll in there, go through mariupol, control kyiv in a couple of weeks, and now he is being pushed back out of kyiv now, less than a month later, shows you just what a bad miscalculation it is. i'll say again, this piece on the front page of "times" this morning has a retired russian general speaking at his own peril on the front page of an american newspaper, saying, "i stand by the letter i wrote in january where i said this is a

pointless and dangerous war that's going to make ukrainians hate russians forever, for at least a couple generations. it is going to inspire the west and rally nato." effectively laying this all out in a public letter to vladimir putin. putin stands alone right now as he prosecutes this war. as you say, it could only get worse from here. coming up, we have a live report from brussels ahead of president biden's trip to meet with nato allies. also ahead, lawmakers from both sides of the aisle join us in studio in washington. senators rob portman and richard blumenthal just returned from poland, meeting with refugees and humanitarian workers. we'll hear their reports from the front there when "morning joe" comes right back. trading isn't just a hobby. it's your future. so you don't lose sight of the big picture, even when you're focused on what's happening right now. and thinkorswim® is right there with you. to help you become a smarter investor.

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in about an hour from now, president biden will leave the

white house for a trip to europe. joining us from brussels right now, nbc news chief white house correspondent kristen welker. kristen, talk about the pressure the president is under and is facing during this important trip. >> reporter: hi, mika. well, it is so good to be with you from brussels. the president could not be under more pressure, frankly. this is the most consequential foreign trip of his presidency so far. because he is under pressure to really try to announce or deliver something consequential that will deter vladimir putin. as you know, as you have reported on extensively so far, putin has been undeterred by all of the actions that the west has taken, all of the rounds of sanctions. so the president departs in about an hour from now, as you say, and tomorrow he is going to be attending an emergency nato summit. this is going to be with 29 other world leaders, and they are going to discuss what exactly they can do, what next steps will be taken. so we expect them to announce a package that will include more sanctions, more military and

humanitarian aid. and nbc news has learned overnight, my colleagues courtney kube, carol lee, josh lederman, and myself, saw there may be an announcement of an increased troop level in the european states. it'd send a strong signal to russia. what the president is not expected to announce, a no fly zone or the polish migs. taking a step back and looking at all of this broadly, mika, again, this is a major foreign policy test for president biden. i think you're going to see them also talk about chemical weapons, the role of china. he is going to end in poland where he will thank the president there for housing and sheltering the many millions of refugees who have fled ukraine, mika. >> nbc news chief white house correspondent kristen welker, thank you very much. joining us now, former white house director of communications

for president obama and director of communications for hillary clinton's 2016 presidential campaign, jennifer palmieri, co-host of "the circus" on showtime. her book, "she proclaims, our declaration of independence from a man's world," is out now in paperback. "she proclaims" is awesome. thank you very much for joining us this morning. how do you think the president is doing so far? you're looking at poll numbers shifting, support for engagement shifting, although the president has been very clear that he does not want world war iii. >> so i think that you have to -- if you're in the white house and you're in their position, you can't make judgments on policy, you know, with so much at stake in ukraine based off of what's likely to be popular in the united states. you have to work on bringing the american people along with you, but you can't make judgments about what is more likely to be popular. what you can do is think about, what are we communicating to the

american people about the president? is he projecting strength? is he bringing the public along with him? is he able to hold the allies together? i think in doing that, they've done a really great job. just sort of -- i mean, we all know, it is groundbreaking, the manner in which they have communicated in, you know, saying ahead of time what the russians are going to do. i think that helped his credibility a lot. so these are things in your control. you have to worry about what is in your control, and you can't get too caught up in moment-to-moment polls in a, like, really dynamic situation like this, where the stakes are, you know, as high as they are. >> yeah. you don't know how things are going to turn out. it's such a difficult political position for any president to be in here. pause people are watching the bombardment every night. they're watching ukrainians suffer.

they have this natural instinct of wanting to do more. many want to do things that would lead us to world war iii. so it is interesting, joe biden finds himself in a position, much like george h. w. bush, and the first gulf war, where, you know, he had his vice president. he had his generals. he had everybody going, "on to baghdad." >> yeah. >> bush kept going, hold on. that's not why we went into kuwait. he paid for that politically. of course, history has proven him to be right. but you're right, you really can't look at the poll numbers week-to-week in a crisis like this, can you? >> i had not considered that, the analogy of what h.w. bush went through, but it is apt here. you know, you can't -- you just can't -- if you look at how the american people are feeling,wor

about is, we have all the strength. we have all this unity. we still can't stop it. so what is it all for? i think that rather than trying to make this a superpower versus superpower, as the world wants to do, if you make this the u.s. and nato allies, the western world versus russia, this is not just about ukraine, this is about the world. it's the world circling around russia and putting the pressure on them. you can't just worry about ukraine. it's non-proliferation. if russia doesn't pay a very high price for what they are doing in ukraine, regardless of how this gets resolved diplomatically, what do other nuclear powers think? they think they can just waltz into countriesimpunity, and that's how you take control. so it's not just what's happening in ukraine. i think they are having to think at these multiple levels of how this all could spin out.

so the american people's views matter a lot, but you have to be -- they have to be thinking steps and steps ahead of where this may go. ultimately, you know, joe biden is a guy who understands history. ultimately, where this is going to go. >> yeah. >> peter, going back to the 41 comparison, you could say the same thing about the ending of the cold war. >> yeah. >> i mean, it was very important for bush 41 to not take a victory lap. >> right. >> after the soviet union collapsed, there were a lot of people who thought he should have been more waving the flag and saying, "we won." he refused to do it. he united germany, despite the fact our allies -- i mean, he definitely had an eye toward history, even though it didn't help him politically at the time. you sense joe biden -- i sense at least, i don't want to put words in your mouth, that joe

biden is doing the same thing right now. he is looking at the grand sweep of history and, you know, he'll worry about the polls later. >> yeah. what bush did in that era was to mix aggression with restraint, right? in other words, he knew how to push back in a commanding way when the iraqis invaded kuwait. nobody doubted his resolve because he shoved them out of kuwait with a coalition in the likes of what we haven't seen in a long time. he exercised restraint, as you put it, about not dancing on the berlin wall. understanding where gorbachev was coming from, trying to help him rather than taunt or tease him in that sense. the difference between then and now though that's so striking to me is it is our politics. george h. w. bush rose to 89% approval rating in the polls around the time of the gulf war. his son rose to 90% approval rating around 9/11. joe biden has support for his

policies but not for himself. he is still in the mid 40s, right? in other words, there is unity, to some extent, about the american view of what is going on. they have decided that russia is the bad guy here and we have to take action. the policies joe biden put in place are appropriate. if anything, some want him to do further. it's not translating into rally around the commander in chief the way it historically has, which i think is a change in our dynamics. i think it talks about the polarization of our society, we can't get behind a president, even if we think he is doing the right thing. >> can't get behind facts sometimes, the same facts in this country, which is an issue. but it is interesting to see sort of the domestic squabbles that we are dealing with, we've been dealing with in this country, whether it be over masks or vaccination policies or whatever else, sort of get muted by this huge schooling that americans are getting from the ukrainian people about the importance of democracy. >> it really is a clarifying moment. >> it is a worthy fight, right?

i wish that, you know -- it'd be great if the country was rallying around the commander in chief as well as rallying around this worthy fight, but it is really great to see people united. also, that is an actual fight. that's an actual problem. >> exactly. >> that is, you know, opposed to the stupid -- >> the truckers are still driving around washington. people yelling at them going, what are you doing? >> yeah, i got struck with the truckers. >> by the way, nothing wrong with the truckers doing what the truckers are doing. >> i know. >> most of the things the truckers were complaining about originally are gone. >> yeah. >> so, you know -- >> i talked to them last week. yeah, they just kept saying mandates. i was like, but there aren't any mandates. that's why none of us are wearing masks. >> like the mandates that made them get five shots before they started kindergarten and their children. it is interesting how, sudden hi, things that had been so

common place become shocking over the past two years. jennifer, thank you for being with us. >> jennifer palmieri, thank you. her book, "she proclaims," is out now in paperback. up next, a look at the stories making headlines. there are several, new high-profile covid cases includ in the white house. "morning joe's" coming right back. some people have minor joint pain, plus have high blood pressure. they may not be able to take just anything for pain. that's why doctors recommend tylenol®. it won't raise blood pressure the way that advil®, aleve®, or motrin® sometimes can. for trusted relief, trust tylenol®. my asthma felt anything but normal. ♪♪ it was time for a nunormal with nucala. nucala is a once monthly add-on treatment

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"the roar was just deafening." the storm system brought two dozen tornadoes to texas and damaged about 1,000 homes. at least one person was killed in louisiana as the system moved east. willie? >> from the "washington post," democrats eyeing a plan to shake up the president nominating calendar considering a proposal to select up to five states to hold contests before march. that appeas designed to exclude a return of the iowa caucuses to their first in the nation status. from our nbc affiliate in los angeles, beverly hills police say a group of rob es rolled up in a stolen vehicle then used sledgehammers to smash the windows of a jewelry store. the suspects allegedly stole handfuls of jewelry and got away with an estimated $5 million worth of merchandise.

"new york times," mackenzie scott donate $4ds 36 million to habitat for humanity. pledging sew give away as much of her wealth as possible after the divorce from jeff bezos, the founder of amazon. she is accumulating wealth faster than she can give it away. $436 million to habitat for humanity one week after giving $281 million to the boys and girls club of america. >> incredible! a growing number of high profile cases of covid in washington. jen psaki tested positive and no longer attending the president to his trip to brussels. disclosing her infection isn't a serious of tweets experiencing only mild symptoms thanks to the vaccine. just hours later, former

secretary of state hillary clinton also announced on twitter she has tested positive for covid. she said she is experiencing some mild cold symptoms but is feeling fine. >> peter, a couple of things. let's talk quickly just about covid. i mean, it's -- you know -- we're all putting down our guard. a lot of people still getting it. >> a lot of people still getting it. 1,100 people still dieing everybody single day from covid in this shocking. shocking in 2020. when it started, today, used to it. my family, somebody in the hospital with it. it's out there. i think this ba.2, getting the variant name wrong, see us heading right back into the same -- >> another question really quickly. do you really believe democrats are going to do what they've been promising to do for years and move past iowa? >> say they're going to do it. last time a disaster. >> a disaster.

horrible. >> obviously left a sour taste in their mouths. certainly understandable to say try something different, since that workaled so poorly. you're right. it's been that way for generations at this point. since jimmy carter. the idea they're change it. we'll see. still ahead, back to ukraine for the latest strategy by russian forces as ukrainians continue to hold off putin's army. later, how europe is trying to bring some stability to ukrainians who have fled their homes. we'll be right back. inner voice (furniture maker): i'm constantly nodding... ...because i know everything about furniture ...but with the business side... ...i'm feeling a little lost. quickbooks can help. an easy way to get paid, pay your staff, and know where your business stands. new business? no problem. success starts with

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a live look at the white house. president biden is set to depart for bruls in brussels for the nato summit that begins tomorrow. while in europe the spread expected to announce more sanctions against russia, and may announce plans to maintain increased troop levels in nato

countries near ukraine. we also learned overnight that ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy will address the nato summit. he is, again, expected to implore the west for more help. welcome back to "morning joe." it is wednesday, march 23rd. start in ukraine, russians forces stepped up attacks around the capital kyiv hitting civilian targets. nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel is there. >> reporter: russia bombed more apartment buildings in kyiv attacking swims trying to bring the city to its knees and force the city to surrender. russia intensified its attacks in and around kyiv the last 24 hours leaving more and more homes across the city like this one, russian forces actively trying to encircle the ukrainian

capital. bash ra a residential and volunteer said russia attacked around 8:30 this morning and already bombed the neighborhood four times. russia seems to have a plan. its forces control two large areas. one north of kyiv, and another pocket to the east. russia is trying to expand both to strangle the city, buttock uccen forces are not allowing that to happen. recapturing a key suburb yesterday in a counteroffensive and they're inflicting heavy russian losses. a u.s. military official says russia has now lost 10% of its combat power in ukraine and that russia anticipating a quick victory only packed for a short fight. its troops lacking food, fuel and even warm clothing. some soldiers taken out of the fight with frostbite. while ukrainians remain in high spirits. ♪♪ musicians playing for residents

as they fill sandbags in odesa to defend the city from a possible russian beach landing from the black sea. the are preparing here, because they've seen what's happening not far away from mariupol will russian troops did surround the city and have been attacking it increasingly from ships offshore. president zelenskyy said 100,000 people remain trapped in mariupol. less than a third of the population. he accused russia of attacking humanitarian corridors open to allow the full evacuation of the city. >> joining us a member of the foreign relations committee, republican senator rob portman of ohio and member of the armed services committee, democratic senator richard blumenthal of connecticut who recently returned from a trip to poland where he met with border officials and ukrainian refugees. >> you also met with an ambassador, last name brzezinski, and he told us that

he was really impressed with the bipartisan nature. >> yeah. >> of -- >> several groups. >> of republicans, democrats, talked about you all and several others that really, you all are standing shoulder to shoulder trying to figure out the best way forward not only for ukraine but for the western alliance. >> america's standing shoulder to shoulder with ukraine and across the spectrum at home talking about this. they get it. seeing on tv screens every night, barbaric. cowardly attacked. the same time troops are making progress on the ground pushing russians back, every night russia's shelling these civilian targets. home, hospitals, church, schools. i mean, it's horrible. we met with the refugees coming across the border, and it was heartbreaking. they're crying and asking us to do more. >> talk about that. >> hmm. >> the greatest crisis, refugee crisis since world war ii. >> you know, you think of the magnitude of it in the numbers,

the statistics are just -- daunting. 3 million -- children and women, because the men have stayed behind to fight, but in individual terms, i am still haunted by those faces and voices, particularly of the children carrying their pets or their stuffed animals, and the moms, all of them just wanting to go home. they just want to go home. one woman saying to me through her tears, nothing is safe. remember, they had just been through a bombing 12 miles away. >> yeah. >> from the ukrainian border. where the russians, threw missiles at their town, training center, and they were fleeing from that bombing, just 12 miles away coming across the border. so it is really a haunting catastrophe. >> senator portman, good morning. you talked about the horrors that you're hearing about from these refugees. we're hearing them as well as they cross into poland.

more than 2 million of them. you talked about president zelenskyy's request to do more. his big request that the west has not complied with is a no-fly zone. i gather that you're in favor of that. correct me if i'm wrong. what are your concerns if there is a no-fly zone in place? do you share kearns with a nato jet, say, shooting down a russian plane? >> i don't think the no-fly zone is what we're talking about now. i think we're talking about an effective no-fly zone to have enough anti-aircraft weapons and enough planes to be able to enforce a no-fly zone over some of these cities that are just getting mercilessly shelled. >> saying ukrainian doing bad and not nato troops? when you say the fact of a no-fly zone? >> what happened last night, very positive. slovakia gave ukraine a 300s, the best anti-aircraft system we

have among allies in that region and backfilled by germany and netherlands. when the president goes to nato today he has to ask them to do more. step up in terms of allowing warsaw countries that have weapons inoperable -- ukrainians know to ho use them, including the migs. mig-29s and backfill and help them. we should do the thing. the most positive thing i've heard in the last few days. stepping up, germany, slovakia. richard talked about the bombing that occurred outside of lviv when we were there, five hours before we got there. most missiles were shot out of the air by anti-aircraft weapons. thank god. some got through and killed 35 people. wounded 134. but we need more of that, and there's no reason, joe, we shouldn't be providing more. right now in our stocks here in america we are told from public reporting we have s-300s got years ago.

>> aren't we sending some over? >> sending some. the kind we're sending not as powerful or effective as the s-300s. we're sending sa-8s, lower altitude. we need to do the high altitude stuff because missiles are coming in from russia, from belarus. >> do you agree? >> i agree totally. a lot of ordnance is coming from outside of ukraine's border. a no-fly zone really won't prevent a lot of the bombing, shelling, missiles. i agree totally with rob that we can send more of the aerial defense, but also more drones. call on our israeli friends, perhaps, to contribute more drones. we can provide more of the turkish drones, which proved very effective. >> let me stop and ask. why haven't we done this already? i -- i -- i do wonder. >> easy for us to say, but -- >> no. i just wonder. what -- what are your nato

allies waiting for in terms of drones? what are we waiting for in terms of anti-aircraft? i mean -- i know turkey's doing more that is the question. >> what are we waiting for? here we are -- we have war crimes, senator. >> day 27, joe. 27 days. >> day 27. so -- >> do we wait until the 50th day? how many more ukrainians die before we give them what they need terms of anti-aircraft weaponry? >> pressing and talk about the bipartisan nature of this trip, came back pressing more for the urgency of action, and not only on a military front also the economic front where stronger sanctions and senator portman the expert on this. former trade representative, but imposing these sanctions on all the russian banks. strangle putin's war machine denying revenue from oil and gas -- >> again -- >> that's a big topic at the

nato summit. >> okay. that's my question. when you say we should be doing drones or more economic support, are we talking we, the united states, or nato as a whole? because nato as a whole, what has nato done? actually -- >> starting to step up more. should have stepped up earlier, in my view to do more helping backfill and the anti-aircraft weapons. at the summit most important to happen is for president biden to move from organizing this, which he's done well, leading, and leading means an embargo on russian oil and gas, because the number one source of revenue for russia, of course, its energy. fueling this war machine. all of these sanctions combined are not as effective as saying, you know what? not only the united states not buying more oil. for us, relatively a small part of our total consumption, but in europe, these nato countries. they need to also stop this, sale of this, purchase of russian energy. that's fuelinging the war machine. we need to help backfill them

including with l & g. produce these l & g ports, export ports and imports relatively quickly. get moving. provide the energy they need. we've got it, other countries to. qatar and others willing to step in and help. the most important thing that could come out of this summit. cut off revenue to vladimir putin. >> one more point, because we began on the humanitarian crisis. hopefully this war will end soon. and that president biden, who has demonstrated extraordinary leadership unifying nato and lead from the front. pushing bipartisan since this and urge this kind of action continuously and constantly but also in poland when he visits there, he will see this humanitarian crisis and hope

he'll lead as well mobilizing the world to do more to help the pols who have opened their hearts and arms and a way that is so inspiring, as harrowing as the refugee situation is very uplifting is the reaction of the polish people. the population of warsaw according to mark brzezinski grown 10 percent. think about that. 10% increase. a humanitarian effort that really should unite the world. >> let's talk about joe biden's leadership. both of you saying he needs to lead. he needs to -- needs to -- he's organized, and -- both of you say done a good job. >> he is, yeah. >> organized it. needs to lead it. obviously, i know you understand better than most. there is is a balancing act. you can't get too far ahead of the germans or too far ahead of the french. it is a constant balancing act. is it not? because, you know. we've gotten ahead of our allies

before over the past 20 years, and it hasn't always worked out very well for them a. balance, but they're ahead of us on some things you know. seize, freeze assets of oligarchs and providing that funding for refugee crisis is absolutely essential. gone ahead of us in terms of trade. said no longer get most favored nation status trading with europe. yet we've get to legislation here in the congress that's still kicking around in part initially president biden opposed that. five things opposed and later did the oil embargo. >> passed the house, not the senate. >> added things on senate wasn't happy about. >> you got give joe biden a bill before he sirens the bill. >> initially opposed doing it. my only point, things that europeans have done ahead of us. not entirely about us telling them to catch up. big issues, military assistance

to ukraine to defend themselves. particularly anything that has to do with stopping these, these, as i said earlier, cowardly and barbaric bombings. need to help more on. drones, for example. help us more. turkey can help more there. secondly, got to be sure this oil embargo, oil and gas embargo happens. these are areas he has to kind of get nato friends out of their comfort zone and lead. lead by example. >> let me ask this question to both of you. say there's a chemical weapons attack. in mariupol. a tactical nuclear weapon used somewhere near kyiv. does nato need to go in at that point? senator start with you. >> i think depending on its location. use of chemical or biological weapons or a tactical nuclear weapon potentially endangers all

nato countries bordering ukraine simply by virtue of the potential for contagion or radioactivity. there is a very strong case to be made that it is potentially an attack on nato and nato does need to be involved. we ought to be very, very cautious and i give the president a great score on this as well. deliberate and purposeful taken account of the risk in a very responsible way. but i do think that the use of that kind of, of non-conventional weapons, as a member of the armed service committee, i will say, also, a cyber attack potentially crippling our utilities, our financial system. our health care system. and we need to be cautious, but also we need to draw some lines here so that president putin as delusional as he may be, e

understand where we are. >> i wanted to ask you that. we need to tell him now. these are the redlines. unlike 2014, you cross the red lines now, massive consequences for you. >> yeah. well said. have to make it clear, red lanes crossed, a game changer and we're going to respond. joe, to that and your earlier question, sometimes the administration has said this is escalatory. should have done a problem for ukrainians, both in terms of messaging, also in terms of factual need for the aircraft. russia is escalating every day. think about it. >> atrocities now, yeah. >> and started with military targets then civilian targets. bombing hospitals. gone from munitions that include cluster bombs we believe used against swepts. vacuum bombs used against

civilians, and russia continues to escalate and the united states would say, we can't do something like providing these migs because it's escalatory doesn't make sense. not one side escalating constantly and ukrainian people bearing the brunt. >> war crimes and ought to be treat tooed that way. >> at some point get to that. first we have to sort of figure how to bring this war in for a landing, and i want to go back to your first point. when joe asked about chemical weapons. because i thought, the very first thing you said was really interesting. depending where they are. it's not the moral issue of chemical weapons, it's security of nato. if chemical weapons are used in a way that impacts the security of nato, of poland, of countries nearby, security of nato, that's when we get involved? or is it just the red line of chemical weapons? do you guys agree or in, in, in unison on this?

>> i think we are pretty -- >> you think depending where it happens? >> no. also a matter of the use of them in principle. >> right. >> and i think that the direct attack on any one nato nation. >> yeah. >> is didn't attack on all, but use of chemical or biological weapons or tactical nuclear weapons potentially is an attack on nato. >> senator portman? >> this is a very serious matter but i do believe it's a red line that shouldn't be crossed. joe mentioned 2014. think what happened in aleppo. we have to make it clear that this crosses a line. >> hmm. >> whether there's contagion immediately in eastern european countries like poland, or the baltics or not. i do think it's a place to make it clear now. >> hmm. >> putin is a kgb thug who only understands force. military force or economic force and that's why we need to demonstrate resolve. >> and willie, also, obviously understand, we talked about this

yesterday. saying vladimir putin's irrational now that he's somehow made a great transformation. i don't think so. he walked over us in 2008 after going into georgia. walked over us in 2014 going into crimea. we, we cut and run out of syria. turned syria over to him. after he went in in 2015 and then interest in 2018. time and time again, the united states and the west has not stood up to vladimir putin. so he's -- he's learned that war crimes pay, and this is the first time the united states has actually acted, and the west, has acted in a unified way. >> yeah. been saying for a month now vladimir putin made a gross miscalculation with this invasion. as you say, in his mind, a rational calculation based on his experience over two decades dealing with the west as he's dipped his toe in the water seizing the land of sovereign countries and taking it without much resistance. senators, i wanted to turn you quickly before we let you go to

a different topic. less than an hour from now hearings resume in the senate judiciary committee for judge ketanji brown jackson, replacement for justice breyer. as you watched yesterday, what did you make of her performance and still confident she will go through as the nominee? >> i am more confident than ever that she will be approved, because she has really performed with such incredible skill, intellect, grace in the face of some pretty nasty, distorted, distracted questioning. all of us thought yesterday. but she is going to make the supreme court not only look more like america but think more like america. she has come to us having overcome some real obstacles and challenges, as the first black woman nominee, but she is just an incredible presence, and

persona, and i think to see her as i did yesterday, with her family, it's just a great american success story, and frankly, willie, you know, it made me so proud and excited to be an american, and made me think of those refugees coming across the border that we saw in poland, because what they want are the freedoms and the liberties that so often we take for granted. >> and slightly different question for you, senator portman. i know you met last week with judge jackson. has anything changed your mind in your meeting with her or watching her yesterday to compel you to vote "yes" on her nomination and confirm her? >> well, i'm watching, willie, as the country is as i've done with all judicial candidates going through the process. not on the committee, so i don't have a front-row seat to it, but like everybody i'm watching. by the way, i thought some questions some might have considered to be too tough was appropriate. it's about her record.

and i think that is something she should have to answer to. i do not think it's appropriate to go into the, democrats did with regard to judge kavanaugh into his past 30 years ago about, you know, allegations that end up being untrue, by the way, and making it personal. there's a difference between personal attacks and questions about someone's record. including sentencing. that's an appropriate thing to talk about? >> you would agree, though, that you don't want united states senators asking somebody if they're a christian and then to have them -- grade christianity on a scale of one to ten? i understand the point lindsey was trying to make, but thesish not the type of questions we want to ask -- >> talking about her record. >> by the way, i -- i completely agree. some people were really upset about questions about her remembered. her record's fair game. it is fair game. >> get to know her. >> asking her to grade her christian faith on a scale of one to ten? >> all right. >> seemed beyond.

>> senator portman -- >> an appropriate line of questioning. it. >> again, that's the thing. boy, wouldn't it be wonderful if we could go back to where these are always about, senator, about people's record. >> uh-huh. >> which is what i think the main bulk of the questions really did. >> they did. i think so, too. >> all right. senators rob portman and richard blumenthal, thank you very much. appreciate the two of you coming on together. really appreciate it. >> thank you. still ahead on "morning joe" we'll go to the big board for the very latest on russian troop movements, and how ukrainian forces are pushing back. and as we just discussed with the senators, a look at what to expect when judge ketanji brown jackson sits down for her second and final day of questioning to become the high court's next justice. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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at the big board. national security analyst for nbc news and msnbc, clint watts. and, clint, we can start with the very latest on the ground. >> yeah. >> what do you got? >> it's pretty remarkable. i want to talk about a couple areas here. that report,ing makariv out to the west. the supply corridor everyone's worried about for the ukrainian military. being able to bring in supplies. russian forces. this was three weeks ago now in terms of this convoy breaking up here. tried to move around, establish positions. not made much ground and now you see ukrainian forces pushing back essentially with counterattacks here right outside of kyiv. a major hot spot yesterday. could see pretty intense battles here and further to the west ukrainians essentially take this area back right in here. separately, in the east which

has been an intense battle all the way through. this is izyum, the battle point you see the russians net forces from up in the north with those coming out of luhansk and donbas region. senior military officers of the russian army killed here over the last week. significant losses and armor formations bringing us to the south where you started, mika. down here. in mykolaiv. we saw in week two, russians coming of crimea, taking kherson, the mayor replaced, talking about a breakaway republic and tried to advance to mykolaiv. again, such a critical battle for them. they lost. the russians lost here in this area, tried to advance an entire battalion tactical group. massive devastation like you've

never seen. actual citizens of these towns defending it. if russians can not advance this direction they will fail completely in the south to achieve their bigger goal. move from here, around and cut off ukraine. this is what we were talking about last week. i'm not sure they can ever do this at this point. across the country, major disaster trying to resupply in up to four or five different corridors and failing in each in terms of resupply. >> a look at the biggest takeaways from judge ketanji brown jackson's first round of questioning by lawmakers and what to expect when she returns this morning. we'll have the very latest from capitol hill, next on "morning joe."

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president biden's supreme court nominee judge ketanji brown jackson returns to capitol hill today for another round of questioning from lawmakers. nbc news correspondent garrett haake is covering the confirmation hearings and has the very latest. >> reporter: for judge ketanji brown jackson, a marathon day in the senate's hot seat. the 51-year-old federal judge already an historic nominee would become the first black woman on the supreme court if confirmed. >> i don't really have a justice that i've molded myself after or that i would. what i have is a record. >> reporter: jackson preemptively addressing some republican concerns she was roverly lenient in sentencing child pornography cases. >> as a mother and a judge who has had to deal with these

cases, i was thinking that nothing could be further from the truth. >> reporter: defending herself when pressed. >> you had -- you admit that, right? >> senator -- sentencing is a discretionary act of a judge, but -- it's not a numbers game. >> reporter: the judge also explaining her former role as a public defender. assigned clients including terrorist suspects at guantanamo bay. >> you are standing up for the constitutional value of representation. >> reporter: that topic causing a fiery exchange between republican lindsey graham and democrat dick durbin. graham storming out. judge jackson side-stepping political questions whether she'd support adding justices to the supreme court. >> in my view judges should not be speaking into political issues. >> reporter: dismissing some questions entirely.

texas senator cruz talking about anti-racist books. >> include a book called "anti-racist baby." do you agree with this book taught with kids that babies are racists? >> senator, i do not believe that any child should be made to feel as though they are racist. >> that was nbc's garrett haake reporting and coming up, millions of children are fleeing ukraine amid russia's onslaught. we'll take a look at how those children are being welcomed into classrooms i cross europe. "morning joe's" coming right back. making friends again, billy? i like to keep my enemies close. guys, excuse me. i didn't quite get that. i'm hard of hearing. ♪♪ oh hey, don't forget about the tense music too.

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cobiella has a look how schools in europe and around the world are finding ways to make those kids feel at home. >> reporter: at this school in warsaw english lessons. a new language, a new alphabet for these kids who fled the war in ukraine. >> do you like being in school? >> yes. i like it. i have a lot of friends and. >> teachers. >> reporter: the school decorated with ukrainian national flower. sun flowers drawn by its students. >> doing our best to make them feel -- happy here -- forget about bad things. >> reporter: around the world, schools are opening classrooms and their hearts to ukraine's children. handing out gift bags in the country's colors. waving flags and cheering them on. [ applause ] this video in italy went viral. in spain, a whole classroom of hugs for this little boy from ukraine. and prayers at a catholic school in chicago, where many of the

students are ukrainian americans. >> we feel a bit helpless sometimes and doing this i think really makes us feel a bit like -- better. >> reporter: in connecticut, woodstock academy is flying the ukrainian flag and making space for ten refugee students. the first two already settling in. >> you just know that they're scared. we can provide something to them that they really need right now. they need a little stability, a little safety. >> reporter: volunteers in berlin set up a whole new school funded by donors paying refugee moms to teach refugee kids. >> i think most important thing was to give them lessons in their language. >> reporter: in poland, parents line up early every morning for a national i.d. card so their children can go to school. >> how do you find it in poland? do you like it here? >> yes. >> reporter: this mom of this 10-year-old saying the most important thing, he's safe. and writing, "thank you" in a

french newspaper. the way you reacted is worthy of a collective nobel peace prize. i children will never forget what you've done for us. [ applause ] >> that was nbc's kelly cobiella reporting, and coming up we check back in with a ukrainian journalist with spoke to earlier this month who had to flee her home in kyiv with her family amid the russian invasion. "morning joe" is coming right back. thinkorswim® equips you with customizable tools, dedicated trade desk pros, and a passionate trader community sharing strategies right on the platform. because we take trading as seriously as you do. thinkorswim® by td ameritrade does daily stress leave you feeling out of sync?

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48 past the hour. live pictures of air force one. president biden set to depart for his trip to the nato summit in brussels any moment now. the meeting is tomorrow. he travels to poland on friday. so we will be watching for him as he gets ready to board air force one. >> and kristen welker looking at air force one.

kristen welker, of course, talking about the pressure that president biden was under. it's really pressure any president in this situation would be und but especially considering the united states relationship with nato and nato leaders over the past five years or so. obviously, went through tortuous time under donald trump for four years. when you actually had an american president, first american president since nato was formed who had contempt for the organization. talked about getting rid of it, had advisers constantly telling him, reassuring him nato was worth being a member of. and then first part of the biden administration obviously concerns from nato allies about our departure from afghanistan. talked also, of course, about the problems with the french still. those have been smoothed over. and you have, mika, a unified nato. a more unified nato and i think a more relative nato.

shocking to say this. than any time over the past 50 years or so. what has happened over the past month has been nothing short of extraordinary between our nato allies individually. >> uh-huh. >> and nato the organization generally. that's what we're going to see when joe biden goes over there. i'm sure we're going to see a celebration of nato's reinvig ration but there are obviously people dying every hour across ukraine. they're going to figure out how to lean forward as this war goes into yet another cycle of violence. >> and it's extremely complicated because while there will be the concern that any move could trigger world war iii, something that nato is unified against, at the same time, ukraine is a strategic interest. it was a country that was trying to become a democracy. that was hoping to become a member of nato. that was a sovereign nation, and

to watch this happen, nato nations know and these leaders know that there's got to be some way to bring this in for a landing to bring this war to an end, but yet we're dealing with a man who doesn't seem to care if his people suffer economically, or endure food shortages or anything that might come his way, he wants ukraine, end of story. >> if his soldiers continue dying at an absolutely dreadful clip. we heard from kelly cobiella about the global push to care for ukrainian refugees, especially kids. >> many hail from mariupol, which is under constant attack by russian forces. sky news kelly lockwood has more. >> reporter: the bombs drop both day and night. this is as close as we can get to the hell unfolding there, but on the ground, brave civilians are risking their lives to send

pictures to the outside world. 780 evacuees from mariupol arrived in the western city of lviv earlier. their stories now one of the few ways for the world to learn the horrors unfolding there. alena managed to escape five days ago. >> translator: there are lots of people in mariupol now. you cannot even imagine how many children are there. a 6 day old and a 3 month old children in the shelters. there are so many of them. in the neighboring house, two little girls became orphans and watched their father dying and their neighbors took them in. they are in mariupol because they cannot leave. >> alena learned her apartment had been bombed after seeing this image online. the 4th floor on top was her home until a few days ago. lviv's train stations are packed with families who fled fighting.

each has a story of sadness and suffering. alena and her little boy are here from kyiv, clutching his deflated football, they're trying to reach relatives. >> translator: there are bombings, it was very loud. we saw heard shootings in the street. my son couldn't bear it anymore emotionally. he couldn't sleep at night. that's why we left. >> reporter: so many here are getting on trains with little idea of a plan beyond survival. 10 million people in ukraine have been made homeless since the start of this war, leaving with the precious few things that they could carry, but also bearing stories of the horrors unfolding in the cities that they're flying. >> these satellite images show the theater in mariupol surrounded by burning buildings, rescue workers still unable to reach a thousand civilians thought to be trapped under its

rubble. >> translator: the most frightening thing is that the world will forget about mariupol, that they will talk about us for a day, two days, and then mariupol citizens will be just dying there in the basements. >> reporter: she's escaped with a message from mariupol, don't forget about us. >> one of the people forced to flee, ukrainian journalist, ali who fled with her husband and two small children from kyiv. euro maiden press joins us from lviv. thank you so much for joining us again. you have been moving so many people with your updates from the ground. what can you tell us about the experience in lviv, once thought to be safe. we know russia has been bombing targets farther west. what does it look like there to you now? >> well, i'm standing in a residential neighborhood and the windows all around me, they are taped. they have these x's on the

windows that will prevent them from breaking after a strike. so the city is aware that it might not remain peaceful for much longer. but, you know, i think what is really important to be stressed is that i have heard today in this report that nato does not want a world war iii to start, that nato does not want the conflict to go beyond ukraine. it's naive to think that. russian propaganda, as we speak, they're talking about in their shows about a possible strike on a nato countries, on the baltics, romania and poland. the majority of russians approve these strikes. it's naive to think the conflict will stop in ukraine. i do not know what nato is waiting for looking at all the suffering that is going on. i have seen the heartwarming acceptance of refugee children into schools right now on this

network. we should not be in a situation where refugee mothers are teaching refugee children in schools somewhere thousands of kilometers away from their bombed out houses. the world can stop this. all we need is some action now. >> president biden in a matter of minutes will be flying wheels up from washington, d.c. headed to brussels to meet with the leaders of the nato countries as you have described. what would you like them to discuss, and what would you like to see come out of that meeting? >> i know there are plans on a peace keeping mission to ukraine. although nato has not approved of such a mission, several nato countries have expressed their support. we know that poland will not approve of this mission if the u.s. does not give its approval. so i would like to ask president biden to just facilitate any kind of mission that will allow

the evacuation of our civilians along humanitarian corridors that will close the sky above the cities, and stop the suffering that the world can stop. it has the equipment to do so. >> if you can explain what you're seeing and experiencing where you are, a mother of two with another baby on the way, would love to hear more about your own personal experiences as well. along with your husband who i know also is staying in ukraine. >> well, you know, we've been relatively spared. we got out of the early days, but i just, i am scared to think what would happen if we would not. i know that around 20 children have been killed in my native kyiv. i see every day neighborhoods are being bombarded and incinerated for no purpose whatsoever. i have seen a shopping mall being obliterated. a friend of my colleague, she

was caught by a missile strike in chernihiv. they barely got her out alive to kyiv, to a hospital, but she has to have her leg amputated. a girl that has an amputated leg survived miraculously. because of russia's insane attack on ukraine. so of course for me personally, it is just my heart bleeds when i think about all the suffering that my people are experiencing for absolutely unprovoke the attack, and that the world could stop but is just watching right now. >> thank you so much for sharing your story and your insights, please come back. we really appreciate your being on this morning. and i think -- really, it stood out to me what she said about nato to an extent being naive, thinking to wait until actually

russia does some sort of incursion on a nato country. >> right. >> in a way, it already feels like we're in this, in some sort of war, world war. >> and really, that's the balance of joe biden. obviously the american president is going to be having to continue to make as he talks to fellow nato members. are they underestimating vladimir putin once again or are they doing the prudent thing and stopping a world war from this escalating into a world war. >> it's impossible to ignore, and deny the urgency you hear in the voice, not just of alia, and citizens on the ground, but president search, and he's going to pipe in over zoom to that nato meeting tomorrow. this is not a hypothetical for them. they don't have time for meetings and drawn out summits. they're being bombed in civilian places right now in ukraine. the question, as you say, is the west, is president biden prepared to create a no fly zone

that could lead to something more. >> and as senator rob portman said, if not a no fly zone with american jets, at least giving the ukrainians antiaircraft weapons they need now as well as those migs that they need now to have their own effective no fly zone. >> air force one is ready to go at joint base andrews. the president will be leaving for brussels momentarily to deal with all of these questions. there he is. getting ready to come in and board air force one. chris jansing is going to pick up live coverage of the supreme court confirmation hearing for judge ketanji brown jackson right now. hi there, i'm chris jansing live at msnbc world headquarters in new york. we are moments away from a crucial third day for the supreme court hearing for judge