hi there. it is 4:00 in new york. i'm chris jansing in for nicolle wallace. it is an intense and urgent day of diplomacy for president biden with three summits to rally western allies against vladimir putin and the invasion of ukraine. at a press conference hours ago the president slammed vladimir putin calling him a brute and he announced new steps including sanctions that target more than 400 russian individuals and businesses and plans to take in up to 100,000 ukrainian refugees. but looming over everything mounting concerns that russia will resort to chemical or biological weapons in ukraine. >> do you have specific intelligence that vladimir putin is moving the weapons into use and would the u.s. or nato

respond with military action if he did use chemical weapons? >> i won't give you intelligence data, number one. number two, we would respond, if he uses it and the nature depends on the nature of the use. >> the president's remarks after president zelenskyy made an urgent plea to nato leaders and stopped short of calling for a no-fly zone but warned that they needed to stop russian aggression now because vladimir putin will not stop at ukraine. >> the ukrainian army is standing firm for a month now in unequal conditions and i repeat to save people and our towns ukraine needs unlimited military aid like russia is using all its arsenal unlimited arsenal. nato can show what nato can do

to save people that it was an effective and defensive alliance and ukraine is waiting for real actions. >> zelenskyy made a stunning claim in that address saying russia used phosphorus bombs in ukraine. and if used against civilians the use could amount to a war crime. nbc news has not been able to independently verify the claim but it raises more troubling questions about the nato red lines and what the u.s. and allies will do russia escalates with chemical or biological weapons. today president biden said that was discussed in brussels and we know the white house is preparing for a possibility. a senior administration official said there's tiger teams to plan out a response if russia uses

the weapons. on the ground in ukraine more sign that is russia's invasion stalled. ukrainians have pushed russian troops back more than 15 miles in towns east of kyiv and ukraine claims to have destroyed a russian warship in the black sea but the intense fighting far month led to widespread devastation on a scale not seen in europe in decades. air assaults targeting neighborhoods led the mayor to call it a war on civilians. here's what he told andrea mitchell. >> our nation is getting just wiped off. that cannot happen. in a -- all our allies and in the world to isolate russia economically because every trade with russia and every cent going to the budget of russia is used for weapons against civilians as

an example is happening now. all the destruction that ukraine is going and all the lives that have been lost is going to continue if we isolate russia they will have no asset to finance this war. they're killing its own people. >> joining our coverage now correspondent ali arouzi live from ukraine and jonathan lemire. the rare nature of this series of meetings today hard to overstate as i think it's hard to overstate the importance of the decisions being made. what are the big takeaways? >> there are a few things, chris. first to your point that underscores how important the

situation is and how president biden is trying to project a real air of alliance here. that the allies are closely tied together and marching in lockstep in opposition to the russian aggression against ukraine. stern words from the president about how unified nato is. one of the three stops today. really remarkable day of diplomacy. now one month in to this war and the leaders heard an emotional address from president zelenskyy calling for their help and underscores while certainly the alliance is unified, administration officials like to say, it pointed out the limits to what president biden can do. for instance, as much as the nato alliance pledged help to ukraine they can't or won't do a no-fly zone. as much as they try to stop the

reliance on energy and gas and fuels the economic life blood for the russian war machine there's an indication that they can't do that immediately. that can't happen overnight. we know that the ukrainians are worried about the weapons running out. and the u.s. and its allies pledged to send more. will they get there in time? we know about chemical weapons. the president said he would respond in kind. didn't elaborate and though he is collaborating with allies as to what to do if putin were to go down the road for biological or chemical weapons it is not clear the path. as much as the west and they feel like they do everything right and slapping on the sanctions even though president biden said it's not a deter rent but a punishment this war likely only ends when vladimir putin

decides it does. >> are we hearing and we didn't hear from the president here's the red line but that the alliance has a strong understanding of this happens this will be the response. how much do we know about how much they have been able to game that out essentially? >> they're still debating it according to my sources. that they are -- they agree and heard from the president today there will be a response but not quite clear what that is and it is a sad reality when chemical weapons have been used in the past the west didn't really respond to that. could that calculation change in ukraine here? possibly. but they're not committing to that. that's something right now hashed out between the president and the counter parts across europe. what would happen? what would happen if he expands the war into a nato country or another neighboring state like moldova or georgia?

we have heard the president say he'll defend every inch of nato territory. but what if it's an errant strike? these are things that certainly i have been told keep administration officials up at night. >> i wonder if you are hearing and it is night there but when you hear president zelenskyy talk about phosphorus bombs -- nbc did not independently confirm that -- but what about the anxiety level? >> reporter: anybody you speak to here say that vladimir putin is capable of anything and that's a concern for ukrainians here. we have seen what they have done to the civilian populations. little distinction of military forces and the civilian population. you talk to people here in lviv

and more and more frequently you hear from people that this could be a target. four miles out of the city center have been attacked. there is not a big military presence here in lviv so that's a serious concern for them and does worry a lot of people here and disappointed with nato and with international community. i spoke to an ex-military commander here who had quit the business to come back and train volunteers and he was disappointed with nato saying they're watching the russians kill our children, decimate the cities and not getting help and that's the feeling that not enough is being done to counter this onslaught on the country. not being given what they needed from nato. they want the no-fly zones that's not given. president zelenskyy asking for 500 tanks.

haven't heard anything about the tanks. no single airplane. they feel very much on the own and could be exposed to an attack by putin. >> thank you both. i want into the conversation evo dolder a former ambassador to united nations and now president of the chicago council on global affairs. elise abbott at american school of international service. this is how you said that nato should respond? quote, no one wants to start world war iii. but putin should know that if he escalates nato's calculation of risks and rewards will change. letting moscow know that nato would come to ukraine's direct defense would not only be legal and legitimate but necessary to

demonstrate that escalation does not pay. the president said today the nature of the response would depend on the nature of the use. what you heard from president biden today, is that enough? >> i think that is what i would expect him to say publicly. i think quietly we are putting together the options on how to respond. as jonathan said i think that is part of what's happening inside the administration and importantly also in discussions with our allies. because they will be affected. if this is a nato decision they have to make that decision itself. what we are saying to vladimir putin privately is another thing. i understand from folks i have talked to in the administration that there are high-level signals sent about what might happen in case chemical or land weapons are used and i think what we need to do here is to deter the escalation.

no one wants to see chemical weapons used or biological weapons used and nuclear weapons used and the best way to prevent it is make clear if it happens the consequences will be severe. >> you think nato didn't necessarily miss a chance to be more specific, sending a more public message to vladimir putin? >> no. these kinds of decisions and how you talk about it in public is very different from what you might be able to do in private. what the president said was about as clear as you will get. one there will be a response why two, that nature will depend on the nature of the use of chemical. i think there are differences of chemical weapons or an industrial facility is bombed. and a variety of different ways to respond. the fact is that the president said there will be a response

and that's important. >> elise, what do you think the kremlin will make of the visual of just seeing the leaders together and united in a way we vice president seen in a while? also, of course, what president biden said today? >> i don't want to dismiss the unity and the symbolism of all the nato members getting together. that is not easy. you have seen that not everybody was united on countries close to eastern europe want a robust response and see everybody coming together but on the idea that just stay out of our territory and we'll have help ukraine and dancing on the head of a pin saying the message i think vladimir putin will take from it was i can do everything except launch a chemical or nuclear weapon and a long runway of what he can do so i think

today is without using chemical or nuclear weapons. i think it is very important to make clear to him the consequences that will happen if he uses a nuclear or chemical weapon but you have seen -- we have talked about the bombs, the vacuum bombs, the thermal bombs. ammunition that he is using is just as lethal and dangerous and ukrainians are dying whether it's by a chemical weapon or another weapon. i really don't make the distinction. so i think that it was an important show of symbolism but i don't think there's a strategy to end the war really deterring putin from causing a lot of damage outside of this kind of unofficial red line that they give him. >> let's say that there's some sort of a let's call it a mistake, let's say that there's an attack inside ukraine and a

chemical weapon is used and a cloud goes into a nato country. how complex are the negotiations going on right now about what really the red line is? >> i'm sure it's very complex. i don't think whether a chemical cloud goes across the border or not is a triggering point but the nature of the weapons used. yes it is true that vladimir putin is already used extraordinary capabilities and using these against civilians in ways we haven't seen in a long time. certainly not in europe. but using chemical weapons is a very different escalation and of course using nuclear weapons would be more of a change. we haven't had a nuclear weapon in war since 1945. it's that that i think the president was talking about and nato secretary-general stoltenberg said it would change

the character of the war a ten balance of risk and reward on whether or not to directly intervene. doesn't need to be an attack on nato for nato to use military force and can decide to do that as long as the members agree and i think we are today unfortunately closer to that than four weeks ago with the nature of the war and the fact that vladimir putin is not winning and trying to fig yush out how does he avoid losing? >> there's some stunning reporting in "the washington post" about general milley and defense secretary austin trying to call the russian counter parts. repeated attempts by the u.s. top defense officials to speak with russians is rejected with moscow for a month leaving the two leaders in the dark about explanations for military weapons and raising fears of a

battleground accident. how worried should we be about this? >> very worried. there's been what you call like a deconfliction type mechanism and both sides call each other to say there's no miscalculation. that really -- that spirals out of control. you are concerned about that and also concerned that you don't necessarily know what the russian military is thinking. there is always back channels to know what's going on. when we see how unpopular vladimir putin is -- when we hear reports about how there's concern among the military that this is the wrong way to go, seeing the military stalling the way it is, you got to wonder what's going on in the minds of the generals and a time right now where you would want the back channels and the fact they don't talk at any way whatsoever is very concerning.

>> i want to ask you this, jonathan and then ask ivo to weigh in. you heard the president say today it is up to the ukrainians to cede territory to vladimir putin and said he doesn't think they need to do that. are you hearing from others inside the administration that's generally the feeling that putin will walk away or how should we look at what the president said today? >> look at it as a sea change in terms of how the administration views how this war could go and the potential outcome where at first those in the administration and most of us talking about it thought that there was a real chance of a quick russian victory. who thought that? vladimir putin. and planned as such and planning now because they weren't -- didn't think the war would last a month. might be a matter of days, a

week tops to take kyiv and the ukrainians putt up such resistance and last day or so staged successful counter attacks. pushing russian forces back from kyiv. he thinks there's a chance that the ukrainians could win this war. administration officials floated to me this idea that putin with losses continuing to mount pull back some troops and no need. at least not now to pull back the armament and still can bombard the cities at a distance. laying waste to these once proud cities. so that may happen for a while. it's unclear what he would settle to take. certainly the early days of the war there was a thought to take the donbas and maybe that would be enough but committing to

going after the country to try to decapitate the zelenskyy regime that's a harder to sell as a victory and what administration officials are not sure about. they don't believe russia is serious yet to find a diplomatic solution yet and heard from the president whether ukraine gives up territory is up to the ukrainians. they won't dictate to ukraine what it needs to do. >> do we have a clearer idea now than the beginning what that might mean and might take for vladimir putin to essentially say okay i'm done or do you agree there's a chance ukraine might win this war? >> i think we're less certain what it would take for putin to stop fighting. we know that in 2014 already he tried to take all of the donbas

and wasn't able to do that. and to establish a land bridge between russia and crimea right now has except for the fact that mariupol is in the way and not surrendered. what i hear talking to folks in the administration is deep skepticism about the diplomatic path because the ukrainians are telling us that the russians are not playing ball and doing this for show for the chinese and others a not to solve the conflict. secondly the ukrainians have made very, very clear whatever happens in terms of a political agreement or diplomatic agreement they need security guarantees from the west and the united states and that is what is been at the corey of this for a long time and the guarantees are difficult to give and if given hard for the russians to accept them.

we'll see i think as jonathan said more fighting and unfortunately more deaths before we get to an end of this. hopefully the ukrainians can push back the russians and make whatever settlement is closer to ensuring the independence of ukraine than before the war started. >> ambassador, elise, my thanks. jonathan will stick around. the president getting as close to ukraine tomorrow as possible and would like to meet with refugees in poland. how he is being received and we'll talk with a resident in lviv about today's news. the president today keeping a focus on domestic politics. asked about running again in 2024 and how hanging on to the house and senate are factoring into things. his answer and how it plays into what we saw on capitol hill this week. news the house january 6 committee will meet monday to

consider holding two trump aides in contempt. all that when "deadline. white house" continues after this. don't go away. don't go away. so you can “ahhhh” more. - ahhh... - ahhhh... - ahhhhh!!!!!!! - ahhhhh!!!!!!! ahhhhh! ahhhhh! aaaaah... i'll see you at the hotel. priceline. every trip is a big deal. here's candice... who works from home, and then works from home. but she can handle pickup, even when her bladder makes a little drop-off. because candice has poise,

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for the foster kids who need it most— i have been to many, many war zones. i have been in refugee camps. i have been in war zones for the last 15 years. and it's devastating and the thing you look at the most is you see the young children, children without parents that are in the camps. >> so many of those children. president biden will have a chance to see tomorrow how the ukraine war is impacting

refugees. he'll visit poland telling reporters today he hopes to meet the refugees. it is the closest he'll get to ukraine. this is drone footage of the immense destruction in mariupol. a city that ukrainian forces have refused to surrender despite the attacks from russia. joining us is editor in chief of euro maiden press ohla. i want to start with the conditions on the ground. we were showing that new footage of the complete destrix. it is devastating what's happening in mariupol. the ukrainian foreign ministry said russia deported nearly 6,000 ukrainians from there to russia but nbc has not independently confirmed that. what can you tell us about what has happened on the ground and

the humanitarian crisis that's left behind. >> resident in mariupol are waiting for death. they don't have hopes to get out alive. it is absolute misery. hell unleashed on earth. president biden's words about the devastation he saw in the children's eyes in the refugee camps and as a response to that offers that the united states will take in refugees. excuse me. there is a reason for the misery existing and that is because there's a dictator that you be leashed a bloody war and the consequences will grow. the consequences, the refugee consequences. the humanitarian consequences and energy and security and defense and security, the food. the crises in the world have a reason. it is putin. it is a dictator allowed to grow

militarily to acquire more power and not stopped before and seeing the response from president biden. i don't even -- i have no words. as we sit here hottest place in hell is reserved for those that did nothing in the face of evil. the refugees don't need to be integrated into the u.s. society. they need to stop the war from happening in the homes so they don't become refugees. need to stop the misery immediately and nato has the power to do it. the u.s. has the power to do it. some reason they're afraid. maybe they could take an example from the ukrainians, the ukrainians that everybody thought would be defeated in three days. look at us! we are bravely fighting the second most powerful army in the world. this is what president zelenskyy

said. we ukrainians never thought that nato could be afraid. please. it is time to take an example from ukraine. >> he didn't mention the no-fly zone today why whether that is because he thinks that militarily it isn't necessary or maybe he is told it is not happening so he's moved on. but if we take that off the table are there things you heard today you still want nato leaders to hear or anything from president biden that you think can be helpful or gives you any hope at all? >> i think really the greatest -- inhibition to nato action is just fear of escalation. if you're afraid to confront a dictator maybe it is time to reassess the strategy. nato's chapter of concept of 2010 says the alliance will

interfere with a situation that endangers nato and the allies. i mean, russian propaganda each evening talks, discusses a nuclear strike against nato countries. it is normal. it is normal point of discussion for the host of the talk shows. 80% of russians support an attack on the eu nations. how much longer will you wait? are you going to look at the pictures of ukrainian children poisoned by chemical attacks and say we shouldn't escalate and let it get out of ukraine? how much longer will nato wait? >> with a view inside ukraine, we thank you so much for taking the time to be with us and the reporting inside of ukraine. we appreciate it. president biden pledging

he'll never give up fighting to protect democracy, both overseas and at home. if that means running again against the ex-president biden said today he is ready. that conversation is next. t. hav? trust safelite. >> tech vo: this customer had auto glass damage, but he was busy working from home... ...so he scheduled with safelite in just a few clicks. we came to his house... ...then we got to work. we replaced his windshield and installed new wipers to protect his new glass, while he finished his meeting. let safelite come to you. >> man: looks great. thank you. >> tech: my pleasure. that's service on your time. schedule now. >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪

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maybe even your predecessor himself might get elected president again. biden answered broadly starting with references to the white supremacist rally and you will note referencing but never mentioning the former guy's name. >> are there any steps, anything you're trying to do and nato is trying to do these days to prevent what you are trying to do becoming undone two years from now? >> no. that's not how i think about this. i've been involved in foreign policy longer. i have no concerns about impact. we have a long way off an election. a long way off. my focus on making sure to retain the house and the united states senate so that i have the room to continue to do the things that i've been able to do. i don't blame or criticize anybody for asking that question

but the next election i would be fortunate if i had that same man running against me. >> let's bring in maya wylie. jonathan is back with us. he would be fortunate, jonathan. what do you make of his confidence against he who shall not be mentioned and the mentioning of him without mentioning him? >> yeah. president biden rarely does invoke his predecessor by name. let's recall the january 6th anniversary speech. but this tracks with what ores have said privately sometime now. president biden declared that he is going to run again in 2024. we should take him at the word for that. of course even if were not to do that he wouldn't broadcast it now.

he becomes a lame duck and then less effective. that's not going to happen and the people say around the president if he is in good health, he will be 82 at that point and intends to run again and what would guarantee is if donald trump ran again. he feels good about the chances in a rematch and might be the one democrat to beat trump and did last time around. only one so far and looking at the field he thinks he is uniquely suited to beat trump. took back pennsylvania, michigan and wisconsin as well as flipping georgia and arizona and would like the chances. president biden's poll numbers aren't very high. he hasn't gotten a boost from the handling of the russia crisis and would welcome that chance and republicans feel like some other nontrump candidates

might have a better chance to unseat biden. >> maya, the impression of democrats because they seem to have a split feeling about this. they want trump to go away and agree with the president they think he could beat him. is that what you hear? or are they say just saying we think he could beat him? >> i think that's real. it is real for a couple reasons we should note. one, since this started obviously around russia's invasion of the ukraine the democrats and republicans agree, notwithstanding donald trump's bizarre statements in defense of putin that this is the right thing to do, do work with nato allies and try to protect ukraine. number two though is what jonathan was alluding to. one of the things we saw both in

2018 and 2020 is the incredible democratic upswing in voter participation because donald trump energizes the democratic base. any time you're talking about a biden-trump matchup it is hard not to go back to the numbers and the way in which so many see donald trump is dangerous for the democracy, dangerous on race, dangerous on justice, dangerous on the things frankly that so many democratic voters go to the polls to vote on. the issue that the president needs to confront is energizing that base. to the extent to talk about the mid the terms, the demographics of the country, young people turning out to vote in high numbers, a third self identify as lgbtq.

it is a diverse base and that's the opportunity that joe biden has now and that includes voting rights and all of the things that people care about to live their lives in this country well. >> let me ask you about energizing the base for 2022. first he has to get the house and the senate and keep it in the democratic corp.er. the white house looks poised for a win with the confirmation of judge ketanji brown jackson to the supreme court and republicans got the sound bites from the base and if biden had a hope of anymore domestic wins, listening to cruz and graham their divide with democrats, mitch mcconnell today accusing judge jackson of a lack of candor and clarity and moments ago he said he will not support judge jackson for a lifetime appointment to the supreme court. what do you make of the comments? more to the point of this conversation, do they work for republicans in ginning unthe

base for the midterms? >> i can't speak for whether they work for the republicans. certainly worked to gin up the base for the democrats and we talked about that with justice kavanaugh's confirmation process. the republicans said that got us engaged and democrats engaged, too, in that election. so i think a thing to recognize is what people saw in these confirmation hearings was a reminder of what trumpism, not just trump himself, but what trumpism reflects is a black woman treated so disrespectfully. that's a problem for the democracy and the judiciary and also a problem for a country that's struggling to figure out how to make a pluralist population to work.

>> i want to ask your opinion about that, jonathan, but let me give you a backdrop with a new online pugh poll that says 71% of republican voters said the vote will be against biden versus 46% of democrats voters saying the vote for biden. seems evident as the crack politic team wrote that the midterms are a referendum on biden. >> no. i think that's right and i do think that the democrats have a bit of an issue here. biden received high marks from pretty much across the board and from republicans who are usually the critics for this russian crisis but no change in the polls. and americans see this fall likely vote on things like inflation, the general

frustration in the country as we are in the second full year of this pandemic. that there are concerns how life changed and that much harder and more expensive and the party out of power usually does well in the midterms and it wouldn't take much for republicans to grab both houses of congress. they seem more fired up than democrats. a lot can change. there's supreme court nomination in the balance now. there's some speculation about the supreme court might rule on and decide the future of roe v. wade and could be a driver of turnout and so there's a lot that can happen between now and november but to underscore the president's point this is -- has global ramifications. right now european allies though so grateful that the united states is with them against

russia is joe biden a return to normalcy or the ash ration? in 2024, could it be a return to trump or someone like him? >> only what? less than eight months until 2022 election. will it feel like eight weeks orb eight years? thank you. maya, you are staying with us. we'll talk about news from the january 6 select committee and new accusations from a gop lawmaker and one time trump ally that the ex-president asked him to remove joe biden from office. what those implications could be for the congressional investigation, next. io nn,ext.

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♪ ♪ we have got breaking news today on capitol hill from the house committee investigating january 6th. announcing a public meeting monday night to decide whether the house should vote on recommending uncooperative former trump advisers navarro and scavino for criminal contempt why that comes as we learn about shocking re lags on how the former guy has continued, continued his efforts to overturn the 2020 election. something that could help the committee with the investigation into whether trump conspired to obstruct congress. one time long time trump ally mo brooks of alabama a key figure at the rally and challenging the biden win on january 6 said

trump told him to rescind the election and immediately put trump back into office. which, of course, brooks does not have the legal authority to do. brooks telling nbc news that the listen. >> did he directly tell you to fight to decertify the election, the 2020 election? >> he did not use the word, decertify. he used the word, rescind. >> and then immediately remove joe biden? i guess that would be through impeachment? >> through the rescission of the election results. >> did he directly say that there should be a new special election for the presidency? >> in one of the conversations, he mentioned having a subsequent election for the presidency. >> and this was after this labor day? >> after september 1, 2021. >> let's bring in "new york times" congressional reporter luke broadwater and maya wiley

is still with us. you write in the "times" that congressman brooks's revelation marks the first time that trump asked for actions that were they possible would violate federal law. now, congressman brooks has told nbc he has not spoken to the january 6th committee, but how major could it be if he's willing to testify to that? >> well, that could be a big breakthrough for the committee. as you know, they've been trying very diligently to try to get members of congress who plotted and planned with donald trump to try to overturn the election to come in for an interview, but each time, they have been rebuffed. jim jordan rebuffed them. scott perry rebuffed them. but now he's mo brooks, who's one of the key planners to the objections on january 6th, to try to rule out the victory for

joe biden and keep donald trump in office, coming forward and saying that, even six, seven months after the election, a year after the election, donald trump is still asking him to try to rescind the election, throw joe biden out of office and reinstall donald trump to the presidency. it's a truly -- obviously, it's an insane thing that can't happen. it shows a lack of knowledge of the law or what's possible. but it's also an illegal -- it would be an illegal step for anyone to try to do such an action. but these are the explosive claims that mo brooks is making, and donald trump did not deny them. in a statement in response to mo brooks, he only took issue with criticizing mitch mcconnell and did not in any way reject what mo brooks had said. >> so, maya, let's talk about the legality of it. brooks tells nbc he told trump that his request to rescind the election was legally impossible and violates the constitution,

and i'm not going to do it. speak to the seriousness, under the constitution, of what trump was demanding of brooks, and again, doesn't deny, as luke says, that that's what he asked for. >> donald trump is being donald trump. the man who thinks he can decide what the law is and what the constitution says and that it's designed for him and for him personally. i mean, frankly, he has -- >> but legally, what are the implications? if that could be shown to be true or if he just goes and admits it? >> well, what he is doing is demonstrating the very thing, the very crimes that, frankly, are coming up in the january 6th committee. to defraud the united states and, you know, what frankly is sedition. i mean, he's actively trying to get himself installed as

president of the united states, and you know, what this also does in terms of linking to the january 6th committee is that the very behaviors that they're trying to understand and demonstrate whether or not they were intentional, that donald trump is continuing to do the very thing intentionally. i mean, the -- what mo brooks is describing is, i know what i am asking for, and i'm asking for it anyway. and i will punish you if you do not do it. i mean, that is exactly what our constitution is supposed to protect us from. that's called a dictatorship. that's authoritarian. and frankly, the implications are quite clear. the question is, to what degree is the evidence going to come forward and be investigated fully, and i think that whef seen over the past months is plenty of evidence. >> i mean, one of the most astonishing things about this, for me, luke, is when trump

pulled his endorsement of congressman brooks yesterday, he said that brooks had gone "woke" when he told him to put the 2020 election behind him. the guy who had trump's back for years, right, objected to the january 6th electoral college count, he had -- spouted lies at the stop the steal rally. brooks said this in a statement. "i have not changed. i am the only candidate who fought voter fraud and election theft when it counted between november 3rd and january 6th. "and then here's what else he told vaughn hillyard. >> okay, first, there's no one in alabama with the brain size of a pea or larger who would believe that i'm a woke liberal. >> what is your take, luke, on the incredible irony of trump calling mo brooks woke? >> well, i mean, who knows what "woke" even means anymore

if mo brooks is woke? you know, i do think that it is quite telling, though, that according to mo brooks, that this was a sort of quid pro quo thing that donald trump was pursuing. he was dangling the endorsement of mo brooks in the senate race, knowing full well mo brooks wants to be a senator. to try to get him to do something that he did not have the legal authority to do. and that is throw out the old election results. it shows a dramatic misunderstanding of the law, of potential abuse of power, and it shows that even months and months after the election, donald trump is still trying to undo it. and so, those supporters and allies of the former president who say, well, he was just trying to delay or he was trying to send it back to the states, i mean, this is pretty clear stuff that even a year later, these are the types of things he's saying. >> luke broadwater, thank you for your ongoing reporting. maya wiley, always great to have you on the program. thank you for spending some time

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sir, deterrence didn't work. what makes you think vladimir putin will alter course based on the action you've taken today? >> let's get something straight. i did not say that, in fact, the sanctions would deter him. sanctions never deter. you keep talking about that. sanctions never deter. the maintenance of sanctions, the maintenance of sanctions,

the increasing the pain and the demonstration why i asked for this nato meeting today is to be sure that after a month, we will sustain what we're doing, not just next month, the following month, but for the remainder of this entire year. that's what will stop him. >> hi, everyone, it is 5:00 in new york. i'm alicia menendez in again for nicole wallace. in announcing new measures this afternoon in brussels, president biden made the distinction crystal clear that sanctions like the ones announced today aren't meant to deter. they're meant to increase the pain for russia's continued invasion of ukraine. those new sanctions from the white house target russian elites and hundreds of russian lawmakers. there are also developments this afternoon on the humanitarian side too, an area where the administration has been pressured to do more. president biden announcing more than $1 billion in humanitarian assistance and a plan to welcome

more than 100,000 ukrainian refugees. no timetable on that yet, but still, progress. those measures, though, while helpful, don't fully accommodate requests made by ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy. he wants tanks. he wants fighter jets. he wants weapons. his address to that gathering of world powers today, zelenskyy accused russian forces of using phosphorus bombs to kill civilians. something that could represent a violation of the laws of war. we should be very clear, neither nbc news nor u.s. defense officials can confirm that accusation, provocative though it may be. we do know, however, according to senior administration officials, that the white house has set up a team of security officials tasked with essentially planning out what would happen if russia uses chemical or biological weapons in ukraine, putting what ifs aside for now, two major updates from the battlefield. first, ukraine's navy says it

destroyed a russian supply ship near a russian-controlled port on the black sea just southwest of hard-hit mariupol. and closer to the capital, pentagon officials confirmed the ukrainians pushed russian troops out of several key districts. on the outskirts of kyiv, we're about to share with you a report from richard engel but first a warning that some viewers might find what you're about to see disturbing. >> reporter: two of kyiv's top security officials showing me an unclassified battle map. the red areas remain under russian occupation. two big pockets outside kyiv, one in the northwest, that includes the chernobyl nuclear site, the other in the northeast. the blue areas are new, territory ukrainian forces say they've recaptured in the past 48 hours. >> this is kyiv here in the center. there are still many russian forces to the northwest and russian forces to the east. are you worried that the capital

could be encircled? do you think that could happen, that russia could expand its forces and end up surrounding the city? at this time, it's not possible, the official said. but it comes with a cost. victoria is recovering this morning after a russian bomb exploded outside her apartment. shattered glass from her window cutting her from her head down to her waist. viktoria says she has panic attacks when she remembers the trauma. what she wants now? evil must be punished, she says. >> joining us now, nbc news correspondent cal perry, live from lviv, ukraine. cal, taking into account all the new actions the united states is now ready to take, how much daylight is there between what the ukrainians want, what they are asking for, and what they are now getting? >> reporter: so, i think we can take president zelenskyy's address today to nato as a good guide on that issue. he was very thankful about the

aid that ukraine is receiving, and look, we should take a step back, right? we're one month, almost exactly, from the start of this invasion, and one month ago, plus maybe a couple of days, president zelenskyy was downplaying the threat of an invasion, was downplaying u.s. intelligence, saying that this was going to happen, that there would be a major invasion by russian forces, saying this country had been at war with russia since 2014. we now live in a very different world. we live in a world where there are 10 million internally displaced people here in ukraine, 4 million of them refugees and so what we heard today from president zelenskyy was a grateful president for all of the aid that is flowing in here. this morning, for example, alicia, we were standing in a parking lot in downtown lviv where i am, and they were unloading flak jackets and all kinds of military equipment in broad daylight. there it is. from a lithuanian group, blue and yellow, and they're bringing in aid into this country, unfettered every day. that is something that was unexpected, that kind of rallying of the allies, these nato countries.

where there is daylight, however, is on the military assistance and specifically on a no-fly zone. we heard president zelenskyy today in his speech saying that russia is using, quote, unquote, unlimited military resources on these eastern cities, for example. cities like mariupol, cities like kharkiv, cities along the black sea that are being slowly shelled into dust. it is that unlimited military aid and equipment that he is asking for from nato that is code, of course, for a no-fly zone. this is something that he has been asking for, for weeks, but for a variety of reasons, including the political reality inside nato and the fact that nato has said they're trying to avoid world war iii, that no-fly zone doesn't seem likely in the near future, alicia. >> we're going to talk about all that with our panel but i want to ask you because you were talking about displaced people. this afternoon, an announcement of a billion dollars in humanitarian aid, a plan for the u.s. to welcome 100,000 of those refugees. from what you are seeing on the ground, is that going to be enough? >> reporter: well, i think the

reality is the flow of human traffic, the numbers we're talking about is fairly overwhelming. from any standpoint. four million folks are already refugees, and we should say, when you look at the pictures of these train stations in western ukraine and in eastern europe, across poland, the flow of refugees has been something that has been impressive and shocking at the same time. i mean, the train station here and lviv has seen tens of thousands of people move through it every single day, four million folks, as i said, into foreign countries as refugees. it's the long-term commitment when you listen to what the european governments are saying, the government in poland and ukraine, they want that long-term commitment from international donors because it is going to be months and years before the folks that you're seeing on the left side of your screen are even able to think about returning to their homes, and once they do return to their homes in places like mariupol, that home is going to be destroyed. so, it is that further aid that's going to be necessary. that's what people want in the international community and international community donors to focus on. >> right and some of the allowances that european

countries have made where people will be able to work there, to live there, to make their lives there however temporarily that may be. cal, we also mentioned those advances made by the ukrainian military, turning back russian forces outside of kyiv, sinking a landing vessel. you're on the western side of ukraine, but are people following those updates? has lviv changed significantly in the last few days? >> reporter: absolutely, people are following it. it's the talk on every network is constant war coverage and those advances are something that i think people are looking to for inspiration when you talk about arming the fight on the front. it's something we just didn't expect in the last month, that in the eastern part of the capital, you're seeing basically a breakthrough by ukrainian forces who are breaking through russian lines. we heard yesterday from the united kingdom ministry of defense that it's possible we could see the encircling of russian troops and a spike then in the number of pows, the number of captured russian soldiers. that is something that is debilitating for any military

and then you have, today, along the sea of azov, you have this ship being sunk in very shallow water so the ukrainian military, which again is being supplied by countries across europe, is able to now not just push the russian army back, but in places, perhaps, and certainly around the capital, seems to be the case, entrap groups of russian soldiers, alicia. >> cal perry for us in lviv, ukraine. cal, as always, thank you. joining our coverage, evelyn farkas, former senior advisor to the supreme allied commander for europe and former department assistant secretary of defense for russia, ukraine, and eurasia. jim townsend, and bobby gosh. thank you so much for being with us. evelyn, i want to circle back to the president's remarks from early this afternoon. one story has to do with hypothetical responses to a potential chemical weapons attack by russia and i want to play you some sound of what the president said and then we'll

talk about it on the other side. take a listen. >> have you gathered specific intelligence that suggests that president putin is deploying these weapons, moving into position or considering their use? and would the u.s. or nato respond with military action if he did use chemical weapons? >> you know, on the first question, i can't answer that. i'm not going to give you intelligence data, number one. number two, we would respond. we would respond if he uses it. the nature of the response would depend on the nature of the use. >> evelyn, i don't need to tell you that just because the president doesn't want to game out these hypotheticals in a room full of reporters, it doesn't mean that he is not gaming out those hypotheticals with his team. what do those conversations look like? >> right, alicia, we know from media reports that the white house has been conducting a lot of kind of tabletop exercises to game out, as you said, the various scenarios, including chemical use, nuclear use, and

likely they have looked at potential responses. i'm glad, actually, that the president didn't, you know, lay out exactly what we would do in a given circumstance or even worse what we wouldn't do. the best thing that we can do is to keep vladimir putin and his military guessing. we want them to absolutely, you know, keep a taboo on the use of nuclear weapons and go back to a taboo which they have broken when it comes to chemical weapons. >> should we -- we may be keeping putin guessing on the military front. we're not keeping him guessing on the diplomacy front. president biden insisted russia should be removed from the g20. can you talk us through how significant a move that would be and why? >> you know, having them leave the g20, it would be -- it would have to be a unanimous vote of the g20 to have russia leave. that's not going to happen. china's not going to agree, perhaps, indonesia. the president said, look, well,

then ukraine should at least have an opportunity to be an observer. well, i mean, that's -- that could be the case too. personally, i think we should walk out of the g20. who wants to sit in a room with a war criminal and talk about things when we've got a war that he has started going on in ukraine? i'm not sure how we could do that in an honest way. maybe we send a lower-ranking official to go. but i don't think we can have something even the semblance of business as usual, so i think there's some options that the president is looking at. i hope he chooses one where he's not present. >> bobby, we talked to cal at the top of the hour about that daylight between what it is ukrainians want, what zelenskyy is asking for, what they are getting. can you help us evaluate the why there is this still just about the delicate dance of avoiding escalation or is there more to the calculus? >> well, there's a lot more that can be given to ukraine in terms of weapons that their army,

their air force, their forces can use. what he's asking for, over and above that, is essentially, get involved. the idea of the no-fly zone is, i suppose, the -- an equivalent of putting american boots on the ground, but there's no ground, but it would be directly engaging because the moment the u.s. and its allies announces a no-fly zone, you can be 100% certain that the russians will test it by sending their aircraft into that zone to challenge us, to challenge the u.s., to see whether the u.s. or its allies shoot it up. the moment that happens, well, we have drawn russian blood. that's how russia will play it. that's how all the other countries that are supporting russia, small though that group is, it includes china. that's how they will portray it and that's what the u.s., that's what nato wants to avoid at all

costs. it does not want to be accused of directly drawing russian blood. but it is willing to do -- and by the way, the ukrainians are showing themselves, have shown themselves, as cal was reporting there, they've shown themselves capable of inflicting tremendous damage on the russians with the help of their currently getting, even without the no-fly zone. they seem to be able to push back the russian advance, surround the russians in some parts, sink russian ships, down russian aircraft. i think what biden is planning to do and what his administration is signaling is that we'll give you more capability of doing that. there's now talk of anti-ship missiles. that will inflict even more damage. so all of that except for a no-fly zone. >> evelyn, before the invasion, zelenskyy was asking western leaders for help. that didn't happen. russia invaded. now he is asking for help again. how can we be sure that zelenskyy isn't right with his next ominous prediction that putin won't limit his invasion

to ukraine? >> well, first of all, i think it's important, alicia, to remember, we are giving him help, so president biden and the allies really stepped up, including, of course, the germans, which you remember, they were hesitant initially. so, we have really stepped up and we are providing help and there's more going in, and the administration, i think, has learned a lesson here, they don't want to talk specifically about systems. that's my understanding now. but we will see the fruits of their assistance to ukraine coming up soon. i do want to make a comment, though, to bobby's no -- about the no-fly zone. there are different kinds of no-fly zones and the traditional no-fly zone, the military one, involves actually taking out any threat, so i think that would be too dangerous for nato. but if we needed to, if the only way to save lives would be to have a humanitarian corridor that would be protected from the air, then i would advocate for a no-fly zone. and the other thing i just want to say is that vladimir putin

right now, he is not interested in picking a fight with nato. that would not be to his benefit. he's barely able to take any additional territory in ukraine right now. but if he does prevail, alicia, to get to your question really quickly, he wouldn't stop at ukraine. he'll go for moldova, go for georgia and he would use the united states and the democratic allies as the biggest threat to his sphere of influence so he will turn to nato. >> going back to zelenskyy's address to world leaders today, i want to play you something he said and ask you about it on the other side. take a listen. >> translator: after such a war with ukraine, please never, never tell us that our army doesn't meet the nato standards. nato can show what nato can do to save people, that it is an effective and the strongest defense alliance of the world, and the world is waiting. and ukraine is waiting for real actions. >> jim, do you agree with him there? >> well, you know, i think the

ukraine military, the ukraine army, their fighting spirit, their abilities have really shocked, surprised and really have inspired the world to watch what ukraine -- the ukraine military is doing. and i will say that nato spent a lot of time, a lot of money, the allies did, to get ukraine to a point where they could fight like this. i think this is something that nato allies can certainly feel proud of. i think in terms of nato membership, the problem with ukraine in the past had been corruption. and we wanted them to have some great advances on defeating corruption before they would be seen as a great, credible, you know, candidate for the alliance, and that's what we were working on when all of this blew up the way it has right now. the ukraine military has been interoperable for a while and it's certainly showing the fruits of all the hard work over

the past few years. >> bobby, i know evelyn brought up this idea of a limited no-fly zone. i watched as you shook your head in disagreement, so i want to bring you in on that. >> well, i don't think that is how -- first of all, that is not what zelenskyy's asking for. not asking for a limited no-fly zone. he's asking for a no-fly zone. period. and secondly, i am very skeptical that you can be a little bit pregnant. i don't think they can be a partial no-fly zone. i think -- and i'm also very skeptical, we've become skeptical when it comes to predicting what putin will and will not do. i am not at all confident that if a limited no-fly zone is announced, that he won't test the borders of that and that he would not test nato's resolve. testing nato's resolve is pretty much what he's done. he has miscalculated over and over again. we should not say he's learning any lesssons from that. it's not saying he won't miscalculate again. and of course, not at least for the ukrainians themselves. >> evelyn, i wonder, for you,

what is it you are watching for next? where does this all go next? >> well, i'm watching to see, first of all, whether the russians can resupply. you know, in order to continue their offensive, and right now, they're very -- there are few places where they're still on the offensive. there are more places now where they're on the defensive, and of course, they were also stalemated, so to some extent, to the extent that you're stalemated, that's kind of defensive as well because you have to maintain your position, so i want to see whether they can resupply. i'm very interested in what's happening in moscow, again, you know, we hear coming from the news that there is dissent and concern and perhaps the ukrainians are reporting that the russian generals are starting to understand that they may not win this war. of course, you have to think about the source there. and then on the ukrainian side, how fast can we get weapons to the ukrainians to really help them turn the tide? they have a little bit of momentum now.

they have taken back some of the territory from the russians. but what can they do to protect their civilians and then to really, you know, protect themselves, push the russians back? i mean, those are the two things to look at, the balance of power and where the momentum is. >> evelyn farkas, jim townsend, and bobby ghosh, thank you so much. still ahead, we're going to talk with someone who has become a familiar face to the viewers of this program, former advisor to president zelenskyy, igor, who is sheltering with his young family in kyiv. we'll get his response to what we heard from president biden and the nato allies today. plus reaction here at home from capitol hill and a top democrat on the house armed services committee. and later, the heartbreaking humanitarian crisis growing worse by the hour. half of all ukrainian children have now been displaced in this war. "deadline white house" continues after a quick break. "deadline white house" continues after a quick break.

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as president biden continues to shore up support among allies for ukraine and brussels, the war still continues on the ground in ukraine. officials in ukraine saying that they have made up ground in their fight against russian forces in the capital city of kyiv. pushing vladimir putin's invading army to the outer edges of the city. u.s. officials saying the coming days would be incredibly important. all those questions remain as to whether putin will use chemical weapons in his offensive. igor novikov is back with us. igor remains near kyiv with his family. first off, we want to know, how are you doing? how is your family doing? is everyone okay?

>> everyone's okay. we got used to it, and i keep saying, that's the scariest part of this whole thing, when your kids get used to war, but we've been fine. the fighting moved away from where we are, and that kind of allows us to focus on trying to bring life back to normal, being in kyiv. and that involves trying to figure out how to make up for the lack of schooling for the kids, how to go about daily supplies and what to do next, quite frankly. that's the scariest question, because i mean, there will be no more old ukraine. there will be no more ordinary life we kind of got used to, so we're trying to think ahead and i think that's a positive sign. that means we'll win eventually. >> yeah, whenever i see that doll house in the corner of your television shot, i'm reminded of the effort that you must be taking to keep things seminormal for your kids in very abnormal times. you heard the president's speech just earlier. your reaction to what the president had to say today.

>> well, to be honest, it's really promising that the collective west is coming to its senses and realizes that this is something more than another territorial expansion for russia. that this is a major problem that's shattered the global security architecture, that's threatened our way of life, and we need to face it and figure out a way to combat it and win this war and look, i fully agree with president zelenskyy when he says that this war is not only about ukraine, and this war is already being fought in the west, especially in the european union. i mean, the bombs aren't falling yet, but if you look at what's happening in the economy, the russian ultimatums regarding gas and ruble and russian agents of influence, if you look at the disinformation war, if you look at the refugee crisis, although to be honest, i mean, i wouldn't call ukrainian refugees a

crisis. they're some of the best people there. they're successful businesswoman there and you're lucky to have them temporarily, but please, we'd like them back once this is over. >> i think part of the reason, though, and you will get this, that we talk about it as a crisis is because in addition to the human strife that we are watching unfold, this is also part of putin's strategy. this is one of his many tactics to increase pressure on your neighboring countries. i'm sure you heard the announcement today, the united states is going to allow in 100,000 refugees into our country, offering more than $1 billion in humanitarian assistance. do you feel that that is enough? >> well, quite frankly, it's a first step, yes, it's enough. but i expect more steps to come. but look, i disagree with the fact that this is a crisis. every threat -- every opportunity becomes a threat if you react to it too late.

so, what's happening there, i mean, if you adapt to this situation, you are going to win because look, the world is not as static as it used to be. it's very dynamic. life and everything around you changes on a daily basis, so we need to get used to having those kinds of situations while lots of people move around. whether economic changes and you know, if we start getting used to it, if we increase our adaptability, that means that at least according to darwin, we are more likely to survive. and you know, if one thing russia is not, it's adaptable. i mean, they're still running the show like it's 1945. so, i think, look, we need to look for positivity in everything that happens, and that will kind of give us strength to win this war and to build that new world, because the old world's not coming back after this. >> igor, your futurist take is well taken. we have learned that the

president has set up a team to decide what will happen if chemical weapons are deployed. what do you believe the west should do if they are? >> well, i mean, the west needs to think about it now, and it needs to be incredibly vocal about what they're going to do, because there are many people, especially in ukraine, who think that all of this happened also due to the fact that there have been discussions but there was no reaction to preempt this war. so, basically, nobody believed it was going to happen and it was going to go this bad this quickly and that's one of the reasons putin invaded. so, at the moment, the west needs to be explicitly clear about what's going to happen to russia's, as a, reaction to potential use, but to be honest i'm pessimistic on the weapons of mass destruction use in ukraine. let me tell you why. because kyiv is a fortress. even with 200, even with 300,000

soldiers, russians are unlikely to take it. therefore, they still keep pushing, so there are only two possibilities. either kyiv is a distraction for what's happening in the south, or, you know, they're planning to use some unconventional weapons, chemical, bionuclear, we don't know. but look, we're preparing as well. we are studying. it's not something we need to -- we expected to be thinking about but we are thinking about it and as a father and as a husband, i'm preparing as well. >> the other big headline from today, igor, was president biden talking about potentially excluding russia from the g20. your thoughts on that? >> well, look, i'd be surprised if any reasonable and normal western leader would want to shake putin's hand after this. i mean, it's like shaking hands with hitler. but at the same time, in the whole world that we kind of use -- we got used to, it was normal, it was explained with

political reasoning and bureaucracy, the need to kind of find solutions and stuff like that. i wouldn't shake putin's hand and i wouldn't recommend it to any of the leaders. there is nothing to talk to russia about. i mean, their economy is built on death, destruction, and blood of the innocent people. therefore, russia needs to be isolated at least until there's a regime change. and then, kind of -- then that question also comes back the table, whether russia should participate in the international dialogue. but i fully agree that there is no place for russia in g20. it already got kicked out of the g8, and look, it's just morally wrong and there's no way you can explain it to the ukrainian people if those western leaders just sit at the same table with putin and smile at him. >> igor novikov, as always, thank you for joining us. please stay safe. when we return, the view from capitol hill. we're going to be joined by seth moulton, member of the house armed services committee. moulton, member of the house

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putin was banking on nato being split. my early conversation with him in december and early january was clear to me he didn't think we could sustain this cohesion. nato has never, never been more united than it is today. putin is getting exactly the opposite of what he intended to have as a consequence of going

into ukraine. we've built that same unity with our european -- the european union and with the leading democracies of the g7. in the g7. >> president biden today as the u.s. announces new sanctions and humanitarian aid for ukraine. nato agreed to arm ukraine to respond to potential chemical, biological, or nuclear assaults from russia. joining us now, congressman seth moulton of massachusetts. he is an iraq war veteran and member of the house armed services committee. he visited ukraine in december to discuss the escalating security situation as part of a group of bipartisan house lawmakers. congressman, your general impressions of what you heard today from the president. >> fantastic. i mean, biden is strong. he's a leader. and he's done the hard work to get this incredible coalition together. i mean, it's worldwide. it's even beyond nato. and that doesn't just happen. it's because of hard work on diplomacy, exactly what biden promised he would do when he

came into office, and let's be clear, he's had to undo a lot of the work of the former president because trump tried to pull us out of nato. he tried to undermine nato. he said nato is irrelevant. nato's never been more relevant than it is today and we're very fortunate to have president biden at the helm. >> congressman, a big part of the conversation today was about sanctions, but we keep hearing about the sanctions, that they will take time, that they will take effort to implement. you have introduced a bill to help confiscate the yachts of oligarchs. have eu allies done enough, do you think, to track down the assets of people who have most enabled russia? >> no. we need to continue doing more, and that's exactly why i introduced this bill. but i also introduced it for a very specific reason. i think a lot of oligarchs think they can ride this out. i mean, they're literally sitting on their yachts in the mediterranean, more worried about where their caviar is coming from next than actually going and pressuring their enabler, this war criminal, vladimir putin, to stop the war.

the whole point of these sanctions, the whole point of going after the oligarch assets is to make them pressure putin to stop, but if they think they're just going to ride it out and get those assets back when this is all over, it's not going to work. that's why this simple bill is so important. >> that is the economic piece of it. i want to talk a little bit about the military piece of this, congressman. according to "the washington post," top russian military leaders repeatedly declining calls from u.s. military leaders prompting fears of sleepwalking into war. as you see it, what is the looming risk if our top military leaders don't have a direct line to russia's top military leaders? >> look, the risk is always miscalculation. and the risk is enormously high when you not only have two nuclear armed nations in a face-off here, but it actually is written in russian military doctrine that they will use

nuclear weapons to escalate a conflict. they have this crazy idea that you escalate in order to de-escalate. if they think they're getting beaten in ukraine, which frankly, in many cases, they are, they may pull out nuclear weapons, and although that's hard for us to believe, hard for us to even imagine, it's literally written into russian military doctrine, and all they need is an excuse. i think russia is looking for an excuse to widen this conflict. putin's whole plan was to get to kyiv and topple the government before nato even noticed. well, far more than notice, nato has responded in force and russia has run into a lot of trouble. now, his back is up against the wall. his troops are getting decimated, quite literally, and he doesn't know what to do next. the hardest thing for us to imagine is that putin might actually withdraw. and that's why the possibility that he uses chemical, nuclear, or biological weapons is very real, and that possibility only increases when you don't have regular communication with

americans, and there can be a miscalculation on either side. >> and on those questions, the president today refused to walk through hypotheticals, understandably so from a strategic vantage point. but can you give our viewers a sense, when we say the response would be commensurate with the action taken, what does that mean? what does that look like? >> well, the president's being very smart here. and look, i think he's learned a lesson. i don't think it was smart of him to say early on that we absolutely would not commit american troops. sure, that's the right policy, but he didn't need to tell the russians that. now, what he's doing is right. he's leaving strategic ambiguity. he's saying, expect a strong response, but we're not going to tell you what it is so you can't prepare for it. you can't prepare your people for it. i would expect something -- when you say something commensurate, you're talking about having the kind of impact, the kind of wide-scale impact that a, say, let's say it was a tactical nuclear weapon, the kind of

wide-scale impact that would have, but not in such an immoral way, so we're talking about maybe a cyberattack, maybe furthering -- further dismantling their economy. there are a lot of things we can do to make life even more miserable for the russians without committing war crimes, which, of course, is what vladimir putin is not only doing every day today, but what he would be doing if he were to use a weapon of mass destruction. >> congressman, i want to make sure i get you in on some reporting that broke since we've been on air, this from the "washington post." virginia thomas, a conservative activist, married to supreme court justice clarence thomas, repeatedly pressed white house chief of staff mark meadows to pursue unrelenting efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election in a series of urgent texts exchanged in the critical weeks after the vote. that is according to copies of the messages that were obtained by "the washington post" and cbs news. what does that tell you, that direct pipeline that she had to the office as they were trying

to overturn the 2020 election? >> i mean, it's absolutely extraordinary, and for years, we heard republicans, all over the country, saying, no conspiracy, no conspiracy, no conspiracy. when the wife of one of the most senior supreme court justices has a direct line to the president, trying to overturn the election, let's put this in clear perspective. she's trying to do exactly what vladimir putin failed to do. that's dangerous for our democracy. and it's got to be incredibly damaging for the republican party and all these republicans all along who have said, no, there's nothing going on here, there's no conspiracy. nothing to see here. there's a lot to see here, and i think we're going to uncover even more. >> congressman seth moulton, thank you for spending some time with us. when we return, the humanitarian crisis in ukraine and just how dire it has been for the country's children. we're going to have a live

report on the efforts to keep ukraine's most vulnerable out of harm's way. ukraine's most vulnef harm's way where does the stress go when you're driving a lincoln? does it float off into the clouds? daddy! (frustrated grunts) you might have your own theory. but maybe it's better to just let it go. the world is full of make or break moments. especially if you have postmenopausal osteoporosis and a high risk for fracture, it's time to make your move

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i was nervous about the life of each one of the child. right now, i'm in peace because all the children are safe. >> nbc's dasha burns speaking with a ukrainian orphanage director who has managed to get the children in his care to safety in poland. today, the u.n. announcing the 4.3 million ukrainian children, 4.3 million, have been displaced by this war, more than half of all the children in the country. let's bring in nbc news correspondent dasha burns, live for us from poland. dasha, talk to us about what it is you are hearing from parents, from children on the ground. >> reporter: alicia, you underscored it there, and i have to underscore it again. the scale of this is just staggering. more than 1 in 2 children of ukraine are now displaced. and unicef told me a couple hours ago that about 7,500

children have actually been born into this war. and everywhere you look here in poland, you see mothers with multiple young children, and you know, some of the kids that have come across the border have come without parents. ukraine has a large population of orphans, alicia. in fact, it has one of the largest systems of orphanages in europe, caring for about 100,000 children, according to unicef and we spent some time with a group of 31 of them. you heard from the orphanage director that got them here and he's extremely worried that the number of orphans is actually going to rise exponentially because of this conflict. he saw it happen. he says in 2014. some of the kids we met here in poland have actually experienced fleeing war twice, first in 2014, fleeing from the east, and now retreating west again, and i want you to hear just a little bit more of our conversation

with him. take a listen. >> reporter: how much worse do you think the situation will get in terms of just more kids without families to care for them? >> translator: of course, we're hoping that the war will end very fast and that ukraine will win. we believe this. we pray for this. and we will have a lot of work after the war to overcome psychological trauma of these children who lost their parents and who have been through very large emotional negative impact. of course, polish people want to help large amount of people. that's why we're very grateful that we can be here. >> reporter: i'll tell you, though, alicia, as much trauma as these kids have experienced, when we met them, they were swinging on swings.

they were singing songs. the resilience continues to amaze me and the parents, the caretakers of these children here, they're doing all they can to provide some sort of stability. now, they're looking to put kids in school, right? poland is starting to take star appeared more children into their schools. they're looking for additional teachers, for a way to provide some sort of normalcy in this chaos. >> dasha, for our viewers, they're familiar with the idea of children traveling alone. we've seen that with our own southern border, but there are unique risks when children travel alone. >> reporter: unicef told me there's an extremely high risk of trafficking at times of wars when children are fleeing. there's so much chaos. there are groups that are going to try to take advantage of this moment. it's why ukraine is directing

care takers, folks like nikola, he has rental stirred all of his children registering here. unicef is also creating safe zones for young mothers with children, so they know they can trust the people around them, they can be safe. everyone has to be really on alert, because these kids are the most vulnerable policy lace fleeing. >> it is incredible they are resilient. they should not have to be. dasha burns, thank you so much. we're back after a quick break. quick break.

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thank you for being with us. hi, ari. >> hi, welcome to "the beat." we are covering a lot tonight. a special report we've been working on with vladimir putin, his kgb roots and some

fascinating video. we'll share with you tonight the january 6th committee is going at trump's aide peter navarro. you remember when he confessed the plot to overthrow. now they want to hold him in contempt. i have an update. and this is the final day for the confirmation hearings for judge jackson. we begin right now with president biden and an emergency nato summit in europe talking about the new sanctions for russia, and the fears about how far putin would go. >> reporter: if chemical weapons were used in ukraine, would that trigger a military response from nato? >> it will trigger a response in kind. whether or not -- you're asking whether nato would cross -- we'd make that decision at the time. >> the white house hag assembled a tiger team that meetings to