thing and for us to stay unified and the world to continue to focus on what a brute this guy is, and all the innocent lives being lost and ruined and what's going on, that's the important thing. but, look, if you are putin and you think europe is going to crack in a month or six weeks or two months, why not -- they can take anything for another month, but we have to demonstrate -- the reason i asked for the meeting, we have to stay fully, totally, fully united. >> president biden speaking yesterday at the nato summit. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it's friday, march 25th, and we begin with breaking news. president biden is on the move this morning. he appeared alongside the european commission, the president of the european commission just a few moments ago and announced steps to help europe's dependance on russian

oil. in less than an hour the president is expected to depart for poland, the country bearing the brunt of the refugee crisis sparked by putin's war in ukraine. the president added a stop before his visit to warsaw to the southeastern region, about 100 miles from where a russia missile struck a post earlier this month. the u.n.'s counter offensive in kyiv have seen some success, a large landing strip was destroyed and forces have regained much of the capital's east side. the mayor of warsaw will be our guest this morning ahead of president biden's visit to his city, and we will speak to admiral james and richard haass.

nbc news confirmed the committee investigating the january 6th attack on the capital, the wife repeatedly pressing mark meadows to fight to overturn the election. copies of 29 text messages were obtained by "the washington post." nbc news has not reviewed those texts. the first message was a link to a radio that claimed trump had marked ballots to catch fraud. in the message she said, i hope this is true. never heard anything like this before or a hint of it. possible, she asked.

being arrested, and, quote, will be lying in barges off gitmo -- living in barges off gitmo to face tribunals for sedition. my god. she followed up with do not concede. it takes time for the army who is gathering for his back. this is crazy. on november 10th after news organizations declared joe biden the projected winner, thomas texted meadows, help this great president stand firm, mark, you are the leader for him and standing for america's constitution, and the majority knows biden and the left is attempting the greatest heist in our country, and willie,

painfully, this is much more. >> yeah, "the posts" reports, thomas pushed meadows to work closely with sidney powell, one of the lawyers that supported conspiracy theories to help trump overturn the election. thomas stood by her reportedly texting mark meadows, don't let her and your assets be marginalized. instead help her be the bead and the face. and the next day thomas sent meadows a text saying, the most important thing you can realize right now is there are no rules in war. this war is psychological, psyop, she wrote. do not grow weary in well doing. i have staked my career on it,

and that's from meadows back to thomas. and she said, thank you, i needed that. i will try and keep holding on, america is worth it. previous reports say thomas and her husband refer to each other in that regard, and have done so publicly. justice thomas is not directly referenced in any of the messages, and mrs. thomas in the past said she and her husband are not involved in each other's work, and clarence thomas was the only justice that sroed against the national archives being handed over to the january 6 committee. nbc news has reached out to the attorney for mark meadows and to thomas for comment. a lot to digest there. obviously the key question is does jenny thomas speak for or

represent the thinking of clarence thomas, but this is true, forgive me, quack stuff she's putting out there, and perhaps sidney powell, the lead quack, runs this operation. >> i must say, spending a good deal of my adult life in the conservative community in washington, d.c., this is one of the most disturbing things i have read. i can't believe i am saying this, through the entire trump presidency and what we found out after the trump presidency, for three reasons. first of all, spouses do their own work. they can do whatever they want to do. clarence thomas does not tell his wife what to do and vice versa, and we can make that assumption. but thomas on her own, ginni thomas on her own has been a pillar of washington, d.c.'s conservative community. she's revered and celebrated.

the who's who of washington, d.c. looks upon this woman as a leader of the conservative movement. it tells you how deeply corrupted and intellectually flawed that movement became through the trump years. ginni thomas, i must say on a personal note, when i knew her serving in the house of representatives, she was always an apologists for the republican establishment. she always carried the water for the republican establishment, and she's maintained those ties throughout her time in washington, d.c. so ginni thomas is representative of where the republican party has gone over the past 25, 30 years. that's frightening enough, reading these text messages. secondly, you have the chief of staff of the president of the united states actually -- actually summoning the name of

jesus christ. think about the sickness of this. he summons the name of jesus christ for his help in overturning american democracy. now, you could call it what you want to call it, but if you are trying to throw out a presidential election because you lost, that's overthrowing american democracy. he says he will make it the fight of his life with the help of jesus christ to overturn american democracy. see, here's the thing about mark when he was trying to undermine american democracy, he said this is a fight of good versus evil, but it's a frame of mind after reading the story last night, he's right, it was a fight between good and evil. he just got the jerseys mixed up. he was not on the side of good, using jesus christ's name to spread lies? to spread conspiracy theories?

i'm telling you that's a level of sickness i never thought i would see from my old party. the third thing, yes, it is shocking about this, that clarence thomas, when he had a case that came before him that he knew his wife would be associated with didn't recuse himself. he was the lone dissenter to top these text messages from coming out, and we have been told, by the way, that clarence thomas is in good health and he's going to be fine and he recovered from treatment and we are grateful for that and we look forward to him coming back on the court sometime very soon. what he did here, shocking. any judge -- he said before the work of spouses can be separated out and should be separated out,

and they are independent actors except when they are not. here this is where their work comes together, and i would say, jonathan, the fact that clarence thomas did not recuse himself and the fact that the president's chief of staff after a presidential election that everybody knows he lost, including mark meadows, everybody knows he lost including mark meadows, he says he will make it the fight of his life with the help of jesus christ, the king of kings, the lord of lords, to overturn american democracy. this is really sick stuff and it really does show just the depths to which these people were willing to go to try and -- to try and attack american democracy and throw out what donald trump's own people said was the cleanest presidential

election in american history. >> you think we would be beyond surprise at this point, but it was a jaw-dropping story when it broke last night. a lot of democrats i spoke to, aides of congress suggested could this be something where clarence thomas be impeached or face inquiry about this, and we should mention thomas is still hospitalized for an infection, and there's belief he will recover, the supreme court says, but it's not clear when he will resume his duties physically on the bench. and we should remember that mark meadows, there's a criminal referral because of his refusal to cooperate with the investigation, and a lot of people looking at the department of justice to see where that could go. and it's stark detail of the efforts to overturn the election and the delusion that gripped the trump white house and some of its closest allies to compare

this effort to the work of jesus christ and to call it the work of good versus evil, and to show it will stop at nothing. these texts come after the window of the election and the fever intensified of the left wing as staffers left and trump was left there with his loyalist, including rudy giuliani, and sidney powell that came in and out of favor and mark meadows was there throughout and they stopped at nothing with efforts to try and every turn the election. and ginni thomas admitted she was at the rally on the morning of january 6th, and she did not go on to the capitol. >> just take a deep breath. what we have learned is justice

will not be served when it comes to donald trump. it just won't. i don't know why. i don't know why the justice department won't walk through that door and hold them accountable. i don't know what happened in manhattan. i sure know the prosecutors -- we didn't report about this because, well, we have a war going on and we are on the verge of world war iii, but you have a prosecutor that quit the case in manhattan, because we said this, donald trump is guilty of multiple crimes. donald trump hyperinflated the value of his assets his entire life. he lied to banks about it. it's the testimony. he lied to everybody about it. it's long been the opinion of everybody that has ever known him or been around him, and seems the facts bear that out.

and the prosecutor thought that, but guess what, once again donald trump escapes justice. if you are reading this story and thinking justice will be served against these people that tried to overthrow the democracy, and we found out the justice department is not interested in doing that. we found out merrick garland is not interested in serving up justice because somebody somewhere might think, oh, my god, there's a political angle to this. are you kidding me? this after that guy on the screen right now spent four years trying to break down the wall between the white house and the justice department, the white house and the fbi, the white house and the intel services, and now we have an attorney general that won't even bring charges when crimes are committed? we have a d.a. in manhattan that won't even bring charges when his own prosecutors who have been on this case a long time

said he's committed multiple crimes. it's just not going to happen. in this case, mika, it's just not going to happen either and that's a very long prelude to say this, even if no charges are ever brought, even if there's no disciplinary actions ever taken in this case, this woodward story and costa story, these texts, these exchanges serve as the most damning indictment against the trump white house that we have seen so far, and mark meadows makes it very clear that he is going to use the shield of jesus christ. what a righteous man, to overturn american democracy, and prosecutors, i don't know if intent still matters at the justice department, but if it does, he says in his text that the mission of his life will be overturning a fair and free

democratic american election. let that sink in for a second, guys, gals. tell me where there's intent there to subvert american democracy. well, we know how this story is going to end. everybody is going to walk. the bad guys always get away from the trump administration, and they will here as well, and it's just unfortunately the whole american belief that no man is above the law, that doesn't apply to donald trump. we don't know why. it just doesn't. again, this story in and of itself, mika -- >> yeah. >> these texts, they indict all of them as un-american, unpatriotic seditioners. end of story. >> as the former president said all the time, we'll see what happens. they are definitely very revealing. we will have more on this

disturbing news ahead when bob woodward, one of the reporters that broke this story joins us a little later on in "morning joe." back now to the developments in ukraine. we will get to, as we mentioned, president biden is making two stops in poland today. the white house announced late last night the president will travel to eastern poland to meet with the polish president. the area has become a hub for the humanitarian response for the ukrainian refugees. president biden will get a briefing on the humanitarian efforts there and said he hopes to meet with refugees. he said that yesterday. he was asked whether seeing the situation firsthand could change his response to the war in ukraine. >> i don't think so because i have been in many, many war zones. i have been in refugee camps and war zones for the last 15 years, and it's -- it's devastating. what it will do, it will

reinforce my commitment to have the united states make sure we are a major piece of dealing with the relocation of all those folks as well as humanitarian assistance needed inside ukraine and outside ukraine. >> the president will also meet with u.s. troops before traveling to warsaw where talks with poland's president will continue. joining us now, the mayor of warsaw. we thank you, mr. mayor, for joining us, once again on the show. in terms of what you can see in terms of the discussions that have been had all around are poland and the united states aligned on the response to ukraine? >> good morning. thank you very much for having me on the show. yes, we are. these words of the president of the united states are incredibly important because it is very important that we share the burden because in a certain sense, ukrainians are doing their fight for our freedom, but

we need to take responsibility and do our bid, so these words of the president are very much welcomed in poland. i am very glad the whole western world is aligned when it comes to helping refugees here on the ground. >> all political sides in poland, do you think they are aligned with the united states and nato, because there's a lot of rhetoric and emotion running high about no-fly zones, and getting in there to help the people of ukraine. of course this emotion is extremely understandable and extremely difficult to watch what is happening in ukraine and yet there's also the reality of the risk of how close the world is, really, on the edge of things far worse. are you hearing alignment in all the voices in poland politically on this? >> you know, my job as the mayor of warsaw, which accepted 300,000 refugees already is

simply to help the people who are in need, but the whole political class is aligned. when you are on the ground and you hear the heart-breaking stories from people that arrive to warsaw, you would want to do more and we are doing everything we can, welcoming ukrainians and sending transports of food and medical supplies to kyiv. we also hear the pleas of president zelenskyy and we would want to do more, but then again we need to be rational. we cannot provoke russia because president putin, unfortunately, is unpredictable. we need to stand united and would send a strong signal to moscow that every inch of nato company will be defended, and we are in a certain sense also

fighting and showing putin how much he miscalculated that we will stand united and we will not yield to his aggressive policies. >> mr. mayor, good morning. the world has applauded poland, rightly so for absorbing more refugees. can you talk about as a practical question what it's like to integrate that many people into your society? you have 100,000 young people going to your schools in the space of a month. what does that operation look like from your side of things? >> well, you know, we have shown this incredible solidarity as a nation. the burden is mostly on civil society, on governmental organizations and we are doing everything to help. and of course, our services, the services of the city are

stretched and first we need to find accommodations for those people, and we have to register them and give them a polish identity number or social security number because they have access to free education to, free health care and social protection because they are treated almost like polish citizens. there's a lot we need to do and we need assistance from the world, from the united states and the european union, and we cannot emprau advisory anymore. they want to take care of themselves. the degree of self organization is unbelievable. i visited them, and i visit them daily in different places where we take care of them, and they organize themselves. teachers are already -- ukrainian teachers who came with the refugees want to teach their

kids, and nurses are helping out, and ladies that worked in the kitchen are helping out in the kitchen, and a lady that takes care of the whole floor to make order in this place, it's unbelievable. those guys are, yes, traumatized, but they are so proud and they are also knowing that they need to take care of themselves -- >> yeah. >> -- because they need to give will to the guys fighting on the ground the russian troops. >> the mayor of warsaw. thank you very much. we hope to talk to you soon, and good luck today with the president's visit today. among the takeaways from the nato summit, nato announced plans to double the troops along the alliances' eastern flank.

the united states unveiled am fresh look at sanctions, and president biden pledged $1 billion in humanitarian assistance for the war torn country, and the united states would accept up to 1 million refugees fleeing ukraine. and joining us now, the president of the council on foreign nations, richard haass, and the chief international security and diplomacy analyst for nbc news and msnbc. joe, i will let you take it to our experts here, but my question to you, which you can toss to them, is more troops along the border, is that more

antagonistic or choice? >> let me answer for them of them. no, it's not antagonistic. admiral, i would guess, you knowing this situation so much better than anybody from where you have served in the past, i would think that -- i'll just ask you, i think this is extraordinarily important. what are your thoughts about moving more u.s. troops in on the front line of the fight between freedom and tyranny? i will just call it what it is. >> yeah, you know, i was 16th supreme allied commander, and the first was dwight david eisenhower, and he's doing hi-fives in heaven. the alliance is on a roll, let's face it. and militarily this is

extraordinarily significant. the battle groups just announced, for example, there are 1500 to 2,000 troops, and they are multinational, and in addition to battle groups that stretch on the northern flank, now you have them going on the southern flank which is just critical, hungry, slovakia, hungry and romania. vladimir putin is waking up in the kremlin this morning and it's everything he doesn't want to see. it's a unified appliance politically and diplomatically, but one that is showing its military capability. by the way, you know i am going to say this, it's not just about land forces. what goes with this is maritime forces which are going to be moving toward the baltic and the black sea, and more challenge from nato in the arctic. there's maritime components and aircraft will back all this up. bottom line, joe, we are not

going to attack russia and we need to convey that signal to the russians, but we will, as the president has said, defend every inch of this alliance. this is a strong move and i certainly applaud it and i suspect every one of my predecessors and successors are applauding as well this morning. >> you are talking about navel resources. i am curious, what is your thought about the news yesterday that the ukrainians successfully took out a russian maritime ship and -- as you look across the country of ukraine, what is your latest take on how this war is going? >> well, let's start with the sea. where russia has been threatening to swing around to the south and come in behind the forces of ukraine, kind of like the u.s. did at the landings in north korea in the 1950s, and

they have brought ships to the west to facilitate that, and the picture you are showing right now that could go with the game battleship looks good from a nato and ukrainian perspective, because it's not only this particular ship that was struck. by the way, it's an amphibious ship designed to put troops ashore, and what is very appealing about it is it says to the russian fleet, you are at risk. this is not home base for you operating in the waters of the black sea. that's incredibly important. in terms of land operations, we continue to see an overall stalemate. we are seeing pockets where the russians are making advances and overall the uber story is the will and resolve of the ukrainian people, that's the center fight.

and president biden is turn into the mick jaggar of diplomacy going from capital to capital giving again and again these classic speeches. if he didn't exist we would have to invent him. it's a pretty good day on the front, if you will. >> yeah, zelenskyy on a world tour of his own but this time it's over zoom. and admiral just talked about that, and new santions just announced, and the united states announcing more humanitarian aid to ukraine, and we are going to be accepting refugees into our country. what were your big takeaways yes as president biden heads off to warsaw? >> the troop increase in poland is good, and it's less likely vladimir putin challenges nato. this is the department of cold

water. all these things are directionally right but none will affect the course of the war. the problem is this is a war being fought by russen missiles against population centers in ukraine. that war is going to continue. ukraine will continue as best they can to take the war against russia and the troops, and that war will probably continue, but the massive destruction of ukraine, the dislocation of more than 10 million people, nothing that has been discussed over the last couple of days will change that trajectory. the energy moves are directionally right, but again, european dependance on russian oil will not change anytime soon. what i am struck by is the disconnect between all that was going on and this war. vladimir putin started this and he's continuing it. only he can decide to stop it. i see zero evidence that he's prepared to stop it.

>> richard, let's take a step back and look at what is happening to the russian army and look at what is happening to the russian economy, and look at what is happening to russia's standing across the globe. almost every democratic country considers them to be war criminals and china looks at russian now and thinks they are bush leagues, and putin seems to be an amateur. russia has been revealed. i am just wondering as we look at this, instead of looking at it day by day by day, are we not really seeing a generational collapse of the russian army, of the russian nation itself, of the russian economy? this is -- the cost of living, and this on bbc news, the cost of living increased by 14%, and

that is today, but tomorrow, next year, next decade, people around not only central and eastern europe are going to know that russia has a third-rate military with some nukes. their allies are going to know the same thing. what is the generational impact of these colossal mistakes that vladimir putin has made? >> you are right. vladimir putin, his principle legacy domestically will be the strategic weakening, almost destruction, of his own country's future. he will destroy a generation, at least, for russia. the best and the brightest are leaving. it was centered on grain, oil production and a few minerals. it's somewhat isolated in the world, but the indias and chinas and a few others are still sticking by it. but you are right, joe, one of

the implications and consequences of this crisis, we were thinking we were going to face the world of two great power rivals, russia and china, but it's only one, china. this has consequences for what would be our continued ability to focus on the asia pacific. we are not going to need to make europe the center of american foreign policy because the threat of europe is going to be much diminished. i don't think a lot of people have thought beyond the immediate. i think it's big and h historic stuff. to continue his war against the people of ukraine, and, indeed, i think it's even possible that he will gradually reduce his military presence in ukraine because he's losing that war and that's his biggest vulnerability at home are the dead russian soldiers, so if he can dial that down and fight a stand-off war

and keep ukraine disrupted and not allow the country of ukraine to be, i think that's a viable strategy for him for sometime. >> admiral, i ask the same thing of you, generationally, what is the impact on russia economically, militarily? i said to a friend last night, we're move into spanish armata territory. the more they stay there the more they will be savaged. my friend said it's every war israel has ever fought, they always end up winning throughout history. what is your thought generationally? 20 years from now what are we going to be saying about this war? >> i wouldn't underestimate the impact on the military itself of the incredible level of casualties thus far. numbers, pretty reliable ones, put this now at between 10,000 and 15,000 killed and 30 to

40,000 wounded, seriously in the most part, and to put that in perspective that has happened in a month so call it 10,000 dead. we had 7,000 total in afghanistan and iraq over the course of 20 years, and that has had a generational impact on the military, the u.s. military. we will forever think about those forever wars. so for russia to take this kind of shot to the heart in its military, 10,000 dead, perhaps 15,000 dead over the course of a month, and that will be remembered forever in the red army and it will make them less confident. it undermines support at home. think of the u.s. coming out of vietnam except you fast-forward ten years of war there and it goes down to a month. yeah, it's going to have

generational impact. and on the economic side, very quickly, back to the point of china, and let's say putin successfully executes this friend strategy, and if putin does that he mortgaged the future of his country and has become the junior partner forever, and china looks at siberia like my dog looks at a rib eye steak. looks good. nobody lives there. as a result that mortgage will come due sooner or later for the russian federation. i think it's both military and economic, putin is the worst strategists i can think of this morning. >> retired four-star navy admiral and richard haass, how

both once again. coming up, the ukrainian army has more tanks than the beginning. we'll talk more about their ongoing counter official ppz mitch mcconnell comes out against ketanji brown jackson's supreme court nomination. what that means for the confirmation and whether she will get any republican votes. we will have a lot more to get to when it comes to the stunning text messages from ginni thomas, the wife of supreme court justice, clarence thomas, about overturning the 2020 presidential election. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. ♪

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the presidential motorcade now arriving at air force one in brussels where it's 11:41 in the morning. president biden will momentarily step out of the beast there and ascend the steps and take off from poland, and he will be greeted by president duda and talk about the refugee crisis. we expect president biden to make a visit somewhere near the border to perhaps talk with some of the refugees. we'll keep a close eye on this all morning. and then back in ukraine, new video released by the city council shows large-scale devastation endured by that port city. as you watch president biden walk up the steps there. and the streets are filled with

debris, this as the country's deputy prime minister showed russian forces not allowing some to leave. nbc news has not been able to verify those claims. the city is encircled, though, by russian troops and has seen the worst destruction from the war during weeks of the embarredment, mika. >> three u.s. officials with knowledge of the intelligence did not disclose what was driving the high rates of failure, and it could be missiles failing to exploding on impact. according to the pentagon, russia has launched many

missiles. the number of tanks on the ground there is painting a disastrous picture for the russian party. according to analysts, ukraine has more tanks now than when the war began. how is that possible? that's because the ukrainian military is believed to have captured at least 117 russian tanks in the last month. while an estimated 74 have been destroyed or captured. in comparison, russia captured just 37 ukrainian tanks while roughly 274 have been lost. experts do say it's unclear how many of those captured tanks are still functioning. joining us now to talk about this, former u.s. army pwreug adear general who served in moscow from 2012 to 2014 as the u.s. senior defense official and

you just gave me your book that came out last november -- >> last october. >> october. i will be looking at that on the plane. i appreciate it. tell us about the ukrainians gaining the tanks and the russia's losses so far. are they being over played in the scheme of things with the fact that russia's onslaught continues, or are the ukrainian gains important on the battlefield? >> mika, they are very important. it looks to be implaquable and for the russians now, the withering of their forces there never ending. they have long supply lines, trucks, vehicles, that aren't armored, that ukrainian forces

everywhere from stay-behind military, special operations, home guard and militias are tearing up these vehicles. and for the russians to sustain now even a line of troops they have to go all the way back to the belarusian border or back to russia, and they are vulnerable. >> i don't know if this is actual military strategy or who the ukrainians are but they seem to be appealing to the emotional side of people inside russia by trying to get information back to the mothers of russian soldiers any way they can. what do you make of that? >> they -- in this sense, culturally, the russians and ukrainians understand each other, they have links, a lot of

inner marriage. it's ugly and it's personal, and because of families, phones -- young russian draftee that doesn't want to be there, and they find a way to call into russia. that is happening dozens of times, and then through the media and then through the youth that work their way on to the instagram and internet system, this starts to shake it. and now the other piece, there are reports of a lot of russian dead and captured. talk about the forces coming in, you have to get all the wounded out, and the trains that are going in. all of this is beginning to weigh inside russia, which i believe, is in the long game. we don't want it to be too long because it's the ukrainian people that are suffering, and

it's major, major cracks in the kremlin information facade. >> i wondered about that, because there's nothing more impenetratable than a mother learning about her son at war. >> yeah, and u.s. officials are delighted and surprised at how well the ukrainian army has done holding off the russians, and they do have a fear that vladimir putin could long-range bombardments, and he stops taking casualties in the cities and just shells them and shells them in hollows out those places. what do you think? can he sustain that for long time? >> thank you, jonathan, that is

that a -- it's a tough question. it's a gruesome situation on the ground and the tragedy, the ukrainian people are the bill payers up front. i believe the ukrainians and russians, if i can kind of paint a picture, have each other in a choke hold. the russians are in close and they are firing their artillery, but their troops are now shrinking back and we are reading about disarray in the ranks and the leaders about going in after the cities. so while the russians are firing all their missiles and everything else, the ukrainians have their countryside, and this is a blow back on the soviets where they fought and slaughtered the nazis in large amounts, between 42 and 45. this is not going to stop. i think there's a momentum that

is developing where the russian forces out there, including the ones that are coming in from siberia, are hearing the news and they really don't want to be in this fight. it's getting more brutal. then the longer the ukrainians hold, the more pressure on russia, and i believe there's a tipping point on the ground where you have these russian forces that are kind of big groups but surrounded, and they are withering, they are melting away and at a certain point i think you have units saying stop, we can't do this and pull back. it's ugly, though. >> some didn't probably expect to be going in? wasn't the thought this was going to be quick? >> that's right. what is coming out is a lot of the operational tactical forces were not really briefed on the operation until the last-minute for secrecy. it was operation security.

imagine driving in on a t-72 and you are coming down, you know -- >> and you are a kid. >> and you have three ukrainian grandmothers standing there, stop, heeding that in their native language. what do they do? and now they are getting increasingly brutal, because they are fighting for their survival. when you have long skinny thrusts you have long flanks and you can't cover all that, and that's where the ukrainian forces can seep in behind them and wreak havoc. >> thank you very much. thank you for the book "swimming the vulga." look forward to reading that. coming up, we dive back into the big story in politics this morning. the relentless efforts to overturn the 2020 election by the wife of supreme court justice clarence thomas? plus, we're going live to

brussels where president biden just wrapped up his meetings with nato and the eu president. he's on air force one right now headed for poland. we'll have continuing coverage straight ahead on "morning joe." it's still the eat fresh refresh, and subway's refreshing their italians. so, we're taking this to italy. refresh. because subway now has italian-style capicola on the new mozza meat and supreme meats. love the smell of italian food. subway keeps refreshing and refres-

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dually elected president of the united states? >> he is the president of this country. >> is he the dually elected and lawfully serving president of the united states? >> he's the president of the country. >> are you answering that omitting the language dually

elected and lawfully serving purposefully? >> i am answering the question he is the president of the united states. >> alabama attorney general steve marshall in an exchange yesterday with democratic senator, shelton white house. marshall was called to testify as a republican witness against ketanji brown jackson in her confirmation hearing. after the 2020 election, marshall asked the supreme court to throw out election results in four battleground states that president biden won. joe? >> yeah. it's crazy. willie, i mean, this is just like, this is the story off the top like ginni thomas -- >> we're getting to that. >> i know. and mark meadows saying he's going to use jesus christ almighty, whatever he said, the king of kings, good versus evil

to throw out the election, and the attorney general, he says that for a reason and that's because people in his state and in his party believe that the election was rigged because of donald trump's lying over the year, and people like ginni thomas spread it and mark meadows allowed it to be spread. it's such an anti-democratic un-american thing to do, to, again, try to throw out an election or not acknowledge an election because you lost. we grew up and you always heard -- my teachers said what separates us from the soviet union during the cold war are elections, and when people come out of the voting booths tanks don't roll out on the street, and we have a peaceful transition, and our democracy rests on this simple reality, and yet you have a large segment of a political party in america

that is so corrupted, so intellectually corrupted and dishonest that they continue to try and make their followers believe the election was rigged. >> yeah, the rot is so deep, as we have been talking about with the ginni thomas story, and we will get in the specifics in just a minute. that was the alabama attorney general, and with somebody like that that holds that position of power and studied the issue and knows well, you have to wonder if he's willful in not acknowledging the truth in what happened in 2020 or does he really believe the election was fraudulent. all the evidence shows it wasn't. he's the attorney general of his state and he's a prominent man in this country and he should know court after court shows it was not a corrupt election, and he willfully denies that or maybe doesn't know that. i don't know which is more troubling. let's get to the report that joe

mentioned. nbc news now confirmed the committee investigating the january 6th attack on the capitol obtained text messages that show conservative activist, ginni thomas, who is the wife of the supreme court justice clarence thomas, pressing the then trump chief of staff, mark meadows, to overturn the elections, and the copies first obtained by the washington post, and bob woodward and bob costa got those, and nbc news has not independently viewed the text. and joining us now, eugene robinson and carol. we spent the first hour ticking through the texts. what is your takeaway from the messages, and do you see a line between ginni thomas and justice clarence thomas? >> first off, these are really

stunning messages. my takeaway is i think what everybody who is a reporter in washington is asking themselves this morning, you know, what role did justice thomas have, what knowledge did justice thomas have of how actively his wife was pushing for donald trump to stay in office and do something that never happened, really, in our history, reject the peaceful tranceful of power. the stunners are how ginni thomas right after the election results have shown that donald trump lost in a completely fair and free election is yammering for the chief of staff to do anything in his power to help block biden and block him from being certified as the president. the takeaway is that the optics are just horrible for the supreme court justice, because he is the one person that decided not to turn over these

records to the january 6th committee. >> yeah, the optics are horrible there. i must say, they are also horrible, gene, as we were discussing last night, absolutely horrible for the chief of the staff of the president of the united states who said he was going to -- he summoned jesus christ to help him do something deeply un-american and unpatriotic, overturn a free and fair election in the united states of america. it's staggering. i must say, one of the more frightening things i have read throughout the entire trump years, that you had a chief of staff pledging to spend the rest of his days trying to undermine a fair and free election. >> right. and invoking the king of kings, jesus christ, in this effort to overturn the election. it -- this stuff is stunning on

every level. you know, ginni thomas has been known, long known, as a prominent figure in conservative circles in washington, right? she has been around for a long time, so i always knew she was very conservative. i did not think of her as a wing nut, but this is crazy stuff, you know, just the craziest sort of conspiracy theories about watermarked ballots and, you know, people involved insert in certifying the election being on barges, and this is crazy stuff. you have to ask the question about justice thomas, you know, in a city where it's certainly common for spouses to have their

own careers, their own interests, their own -- >> points of view -- >> -- where one is not responsible for the other, and this is crosses a line for me. >> well, there's a line to draw, and that's the problem, joe. i think the bigger story, ginni thomas has the right to be a wing nut if she would like, and that's not our business unless she has broken the law, and i think the text messages with the white house chief of staff are really disturbing. thomas is the question, and i know he's recovering in the hospital and we all, of course, hope he will be okay. >> he's doing really well and he's recovering. yeah. >> what will be the next questions and the next steps? what will his colleagues do? there's no explanation for his vote, by the way, is there? did he give one? that's very interesting to me, he was the one justice to vote

that way -- >> to vote not to release this information. >> yeah, and why would he not abstain? >> the law on that is just so stunning. i mean, every single lawyer, every single constitutional scholar and every person that studied the issue of executive privilege said resoundingly that there would be no way not to turn over these records, there would be no legal basis not to provide them so how horrible does this look now for chief justice roberts. he, who wants this court to be above reproach, now he has a justice that made a ruling that everybody finds suspicious, and now he has a series of texts that come out to find out his wife was activelily lobbying. >> joe, does it go beyond horrible and suspicious? what do you think? >> i am actually still stuck on

ginni thomas -- i read profiles of ginni thomas for years, and she was firmly inskaupbsed in the republican party. she was the establishment's establishment. she looked down on us because we didn't march in lockstep behind newt gingrich and dick army, and she was tow the line and follow the leaders, solute. matt schlapp, the first time i met him, he was in the bush white house, and he was as republican as it got. i just look at these texts, and this is not just an indictment on ginni thomas being a member

of qanon, saying that joe biden and his family are going to be tried on barges and jailed off of gitmo, and this is the entire conservative establishment that has put her in the forefront. gene talked about it and i talked about it. jonathan, she's on the forefront of the conservative movement and has been for a quarter of a century, and this shows you, this shows you where the washington, d.c. conservative movement has gone over 25 years. it's so deeply corrupted and has been overtaken by conspiracy theories and cranks. >> yeah. the latest piece of evidence of how the republican party was hijacked by donald trump and those around him, and it

certainly seems -- >> and qanon. >> yeah, let's not forget, michael flynn is seen on video doing a qanon oath at one point and he distanced himself since from that, and the january 6th riot, they do believe donald trump is some higher figure that has come here to save the nation. it does speak to just the reach of the big lie as well, that ginni thomas to your point, is somebody who is or was, at least, a respected washington figure, and certainly a washington player for a long time and now she's wrapped up in this, and questions do arrive to what role, if any, justice thomas had, and we do know the couple refer to each other in

public as each other's best friends, and there's one text that relates to that. certainly, spouses in washington or anywhere else can have different careers and different interests, but it does stretch it. she said she never talks about her political interests at home. well, she's talking about it with the white house chief of staff. carol, that's where i want to go with you, certainly there's no indication here that ginni thomas's texts break any sort of law, but it renews scrutiny on the department of justice, and mark meadows and steve bannon have been refused, and they are refusing to cooperate. what is happening in the department of justice? are we going to see any movement? >> that's a great question, the $68,000 question, the $64,000 and $68,000 and $69,000

question. and what i heard is the department of justice is not moving with any lack raw tea to make a move on the referral. keep in mind, the january 6th committee is way ahead of the department of justice in terms of putting together the pieces that link various folks on the ground who are attacking the capitol and the side effort of trump and his allies to create what -- what at least ali alexander called maximum pressure outside the pressure, outside the congress on january 6th when republican members who were going to fight this were going to vote on the certification. as for mark meadows, i feel like these texts don't say a ton for us about him. these do not reveal much more than a guy who was going, okay, she's a conservative leader, she's the wife of a supreme court justice, i am in receipt

of what she said and i am slightly encouraging her and thanking her. it could have been polite -- >> i agree with that. >> it could have been polite bologna, or it could have been, hey i agree, the president should stay the president. mark meadows said a lot of things to a lot of people that conflicted from time to time, and he told a lot of people it was dangerous what donald trump was doing and then told donald trump he totally agreed with him, so i don't think we could rule in or out what meadow's motives were in talking to ginni thomas. >> yeah, and meadows, it was not, yeah, get back to you, that's my baby, i will buy that. he said that he was depending on the king of kings to help him get through this fight of good versus evil and he would spend the rest of his days fighting to

overturn the election. by the way, willie, just -- we're talking about justice thomas, for those of you that don't know, he's been in the hospital. the supreme court had said a couple days ago, his symptoms are abating and he's resting comfortably and expect to be released from the hospital in a day or two, so thankfully it's not serious and the supreme court says that he's resting comfortably and getting better. i just wanted to get that out there for people that don't know, he's been hospitalized with flu-like symptoms, but they say it's not covid and he has been vaccinated and boosted, and he's resting comfortably and will get out of the hospital soon. >> that's definitely good news. and gene, on the mark meadows point, he said i will stake my career on this, and he said i

will continue to fight back in the text to ginni thomas, and if you took the name off the text, and it was not ginni thomas, as you say, a respected person, and there's wild videos off of youtube pushing the conspiracy theories, and this is in context with donald trump going out on that morning saying we will take this to the supreme court. no evidence clarence thomas was involved, but the supreme court is in the mix on this. >> these texts from ginni thomas are completely unhinged. the thing that gets me is that she is arguing that sidney powell, the lawyer, be the sort of face and voice of the resistance, i guess, or of, you

know, true democracy or of the trump cult. this is after donald trump himself has decided that sidney powell is off the rails and is not making sense, but ginni thomas is still right in there with her to the bitter end. it's just amazing, this radicalization or -- i don't know what you would call it -- of the republican party, of the conservative movement in washington is just astounding. if you take the long view of it, and imagine this happening -- >> and did it penetrate the supreme court? was the supreme court justice's decision compromised? >> you have to ask that question. >> that is the question. >> and the way the court works, he doesn't have to answer that question. the court doesn't have to answer that question. >> real quick, carol? >> i would say chief justice

roberts is in a terrible pickle because of this, and it raises you said, mika, and it also raises a question of when does a supreme court justice recuse himself? when will this happen in this appearance of a conflict? >> yeah, "the washington post," carol lynnic, thank you. back now to the developments out of ukraine. fierce fighting is raging across the country as its forces have launched a strong counter offensive. the defense ministry said yesterday ukrainian forces destroyed a large russian landing strip in southern ukraine. two other russian vessels were destroyed in that strike. ukraine's deputy defense minister said, quote, this is a huge target that was hit by our military. the city has been under russian

control since february and has been used by moscow to bring in supplies closer to areas with fighting like mariupol. and then in and around the capital of kyiv, ukrainian forces took control of the east side of the city, and are fighting to regain control of the areas in the west. there's no ease of russian shelling as a blast destroyed a warehouse yesterday on the outskirts of the city. the building stored cooking equipment and it was not immediately clear why it was targeted. this as president biden departed brussels for poland just a few moments ago. his first stop is in the southeast region, about 100 miles from where russian missiles struck a ukrainian military post almost two weeks ago. he will meet with u.s. service

members and witness the refugee crisis firsthand. the president then travels to warsaw. earlier this morning the president met with the president of the european commission and is talking about europe reducing its dependance on russian oil. >> josh, we just watched the president take off to where you are, en route to poland. and nato troops are move into eastern europe, and questions about russian oil and what to do about it, and how the united states can help, and ukrainian aid, all on the docket. >> reporter: yeah, the big question in brussels was weather europe was going to ban russian imports of energy as they try to deny president putin the financial lifeline he needs to

finance the war, and what we saw during president biden's visit, was how far to go. they did not take that step yet to ban russian energy, and they heat their homes and power their cars, and we did see president biden announcing a joint task force to try and wean europe off its reliance, and not only on russian energy but on fossil fuels overall, and president biden announcing the u.s. will this year ramp up its supplies of liquified natural gas to europe as they try and make sure europe can make due without some of the supplies it will lose from russia as they try and cut off that supply. and then that will place this year, and by the end of the

decade, the u.s. is hoping to provide 50 cubic meters compared to what they have done so far. this is a big challenge. you have to take the gas, in gas form, and turn it into liquid and put it on a ship and send it to europe and then turn it back from liquid, and it's extremely costly. and president biden addressing those costs as he met with the european commission. >> i know eliminating russian gas will have costs for europe, but it's not only the right thing to do from a moral standpoint, but it will put us on a stronger strategic footing. >> the president also insisting the increase of energy supplies to europe is consistent of

trying to go net zero by the end of the century. the big focus on his last stop is on the refugee crisis with the u.s. announcing it will accept up to 100,000 ukrainian refugees, and also helping these countries that have accepted this influx of more than 4 million refugees, and president biden hoping to put a personal face on the refugee crisis by meeting individually with some of the refugees as well as humanitarian workers doing their best in poland and other countries in russia's backyard to take care of their ukrainian neighbors. >> the president is in the air on his way to poland as we speak. josh letterman in poland, thank you, josh. and it's a very busy couple of days and announcements from the white house, and what comes

next? >> certainly next is a trip to poland here where a debt of gratitude will be expressed where there is surprise whether or not poland would be a reliable partner here in the crisis where the populous government there had mixed signals months ago, and they have stepped up, as administration officials put it to me and they have taken the bulk of the refugees that have fled ukraine. taking a step back here to assess the summit so far, certainly an important moment of diplomacy, and that matters, to be sure, and it also reveals the inherent limitations as to what the president and the west can do. we are talking about the deal this morning to help reduce europe's reliance on russia for energy and oil. this is relatively small and incremental. it's a step in the right direction but they have a long way to go. certainly the nato alliance pledging to stay with ukraine but still can't commit to what

zelenskyy has wanted so often, which is a call for the no-fly zone. they refuse to escalate there because it could escalate further into a world war iii. there's alarming calls, saying they are running out of missiles, and we heard from the president also talking about sanctions and how they are unleashing -- it's a devastating barrage, but they have not really done much in terms of deterring putin's behavior. they will continue to put pressure on him and the people around him, those oligarchs, as well as restricting the everyday lives of your average russian, and the president was forced to admit, it has not curved putin's behavior yet, and the terrible war, and as cornered and isolated russia is, the war only

ends when putin decides. >> that is the long game. still ahead on "morning joe," we will talk about china in all of this. we will be joined by a member of the kyiv territorial defense that has taken up arms alongside his brother, the mayor of kyiv. also ahead, we will check in with a mother of two who escaped fighting in the northern part of ukraine after her home was bombed earlier this month. the human toll. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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prime minister of england. you can see he cuts his own hair, which is interesting. he has been criticized heavily at home for going to a party during covid, but he's all on his own today, trying out the new pockets, you know. >> that's just awful. oh, my god, nobody wanted to be around him. that looked like a high school dance for me. >> eighth grade. >> yeah, eighth grade, middle school, people just walking away. man, willie, what has boris done? >> we have all been there. >> i was going to say, that's your moment to slip out of the party. you broke off from one conversation, and everybody else engaged, just standing there with your hair cut and hands in your pocket, and that's when you make the mike barnicle -- >> by the way, barnicle actually, i don't know if gene

robinson knows this or not, but mike barnicle goes to a cheap store to buy a cheap coat and he always carries one with him wherever he goes, and he does the irish exits -- >> it's true. >> we go, are you leaving, mike? he goes, no, i will be back, and he places this $5 jacket over a chair, and you go, he will come back, yeah, and he walks out and leaves. you call him and he goes, i'm at the airport joe, going back to boston. that's what boris needed to do there. there's a new piece entitled meanwhile watch china in the pacific, and with the world focused on ukraine, bad actors in asia are on the march. the editorial board writes in

part china keeps expanding its military reach in the pacific. beijing has fully militarized three islands it built in the south china sea, and china could be negotiating a deal with documents that appears to be leaked from the island government. the deal could lead to chinese forces deployed in the south pacific nation, a few hours of flight time from australia. a military base with defensive capabilities could follow. meanwhile the chinese foreign minister dropped by kabul on tuesday to meet with taliban officials. china has no calms. this is the way the world works, trouble in one theater provides incentive for other rogues to

create trouble while other democracies are preoccupied, and boy, are they right now. the author of the new book "the avoidable war: the dangers of the catastrophic conflict between the u.s. and xi jinping's china." and also joining us is walter isakson. is china taking advantage of the situation? >> china is deeply concerned about what is going on ukraine, because they got out ahead of their own skis here, and they are worried about the collateral damage for themselves in the eyes of the europeans, and therefore they will watch developments day by day on the ground in ukraine to work out what to do next. at the same time chinese state craft is active in the rest of the world, and your report just

now is accurate and it's not far from my own country, and you will see continued chinese activity in the endo pacific. >> mr. prime minister, you have had a closer look geopolitically at china's expansionism under president xi. what warning do you deliver to the united states in your book? >> the bottom line is, xi jinping's world view has changed china, and the takeoff point starting with xi jinping's administration has been sharp and acute. every region of the world has been feeling the impact of china's economic power, and their influence and its military presence as well. therefore, the united states, which is the leader of the free world, the importance of having

not just a co here upt bipartisan long-term american strategy for dealing with china and china's rise, but it needs to do so in partnership with allies in asia and in europe. in part, the book deals with that, as well as how to navigate the dangerous decade ahead that flies with china, particularly on taiwan. >> mr. prime minister, i agree with you in needing a bipartisan approach, and i hate to ask you a question that some may consider to be partisan, but there are many americans that were horrified by donald trump's treatment of our australian allies. you all have been our most loyal and faithful friends, and hopefully we have been loyal and faithful to you over the past 100 years. i am curious. has australia moved past that chapter? do you feel like the united states is a better friend today

than it was a few years ago? >> the few, i think, about asian and european allies, and i speak to them all in my current think tank here in the united states, is when the biden administration says america is back, actually that is the case. the alliance bridges have been rebuilt to brussels. we have been watching today the reception which president biden has been receiving in his visit to nato and the europe union and others, and the same in australia and the same in japan and the same in the republic of korea. the alliance rebuilding has happened. what is now needed is this continued, as it would, development of a strategy to deal with china's rise. russia has been a partner of china in that. >> mr. prime minister i want to get you on two matters. first, you were part of the formulation of the g20. we heard president biden call

for russia to be removed from the organization and he acknowledged that could be tough because they have veto power, and then the tie between china and beijing, and we know china is watching the development of the war in ukraine. is there a time when you could see china helping russia with supplies, and at what point will xi jinping answer biden's call and cut russia loose. >> it's technically not a geopolitical entity. but how do you treat russia as a normal state right now given its brutal invasion of another state, next door to it, and the war crimes we see unfolding on our television screens each day? so as a co founder of the g20 myself, back in 2009 with

president obama, we still have continuing global financial challenges and they will continue through this year and next. we don't want to trash the institution. it took a long time and diplomatic effort to create it. but on balance i support president biden's view. i do not see how we could have a normal conversation among states with one that has been so brutally violent in ukraine. will china back away from russia, or could it go forward and provide vladimir putin with material financial and military assistance? the chinese fear the impact of the united states' sanctions against itself will act in either score. and here we are four weeks into the war, and china so far based

on my information, has not violated the u.s. sanctions yet against moscow, and therefore it would take a brave move indeed to cross that threshold and even the military threshold despite russia's request of xi jinping to help. >> and you write in the book it's my judgment that xi jinping is likely to seek to use military means to recover taiwan if, in fact, political means fail. you say he views himself much like vladimir putin, as a man of history and part of his legacy would be to bring taiwan to heal. do you believe it's inevitable that china will use military power to take taiwan? >> it's always troubling when a

leader thinks of his man as that. under xi jinping, it's clear when you look at the text that they put out domestically for their own political class to consume that under xi jinping's leadership, they are moving towards a timetable to recover taiwan latest by 2049, and conceivably by 2035, and militarily probably see themselves in a position to do so by the end of this decade or early in the next, therefore the chinese will be watching with razor-sharp lends what happens on the ground in ukraine, because after all, that's a land-based operation. it should have been, in the chinese military's view, relatively straightforward for putin. taking taiwan is a massive amphibious operation that would make the d-day landings look like a cakewalk.

>> all right. thank you so much for being with us. we are honored and we greatly appreciate it. the new book is "the avoidable war: the dangers of the conflict between the u.s. and xi jinping's china." a must read. walter isakson, i want to talk to you about what is going on in washington, d.c. bob woodward and bob costa's extraordinary story on the front page of the "washington post" this morning. before i do that, let's talk china for a minute. let's use some dialectal thinking here. two things can be true at one time. china can be an extraordinarily dangerous power, at the same time we are going to be sharing the world stage with them and we need to have a bipartisan approach, do we not, that rewards china when they are

helpful? and actually, it's tough on china when they are not. how do we get that accomplished in washington, d.c. in this current climate? >> you are right. it would be a blunder of historic proportions, i think, if what happens now is we drive china into helping russia, and 50 years ago it was part of the foreign policy that we balance them off against each other. one of the strange and depressing things i hear from people in washington in the administration and close to it is that they have to remain very tough on china because they are afraid of republicans who are extremely anti-china, that wing of the republican party making this a certain issue. we are very bad at doing balances. in other words, we have cooperation we need from china and we are competing with china, and most of the competition is

economic, so we really have to get our act together and have a bipartisan approach to china. >> as i bring it up all the time, we obviously -- we were allies with one of the most evil men of the 20th century, joseph stalin, he killed 30 million of his own people, and richard nixon, the most ardent communist of his time, nixon made the deal, as you said, as a counter balance to the soviet union and their expansionism. i wonder how do we get there from here? because there has to be a realism if we are on the verge of what putin is suggesting is world war iii. we don't only have to deal with

china, but we have to deal with saudi arabia and deal with people who have been bad actors and counter balance russia's threat? >> absolutely. sanctions are not going to work if china decides to violate them or china decides to continue to trade with russia. already there's trade with energy in russia and they do it with the financial system that's really bad. the question is how do you make it so the u.s. has enough leverage economically? to me that means we have to be good and guard our economy, but we also have to do things like biden is starting to do, which is start exporting liquified natural gas. the larger issue is here we have been through 50 years of globalization wherever supply chain and outsourcing of manufacturing has been done on a global basis. we are now reliant for microchips on china and taiwan. we are reliant for so many

things, whether it be nickel or cobalt and the things we need. we will have to bring things back to the united states, because i don't think in the dangerous world where we are trying to compete with china economically, balance russia militarily, we could have europe be totally dependent on russian gas. >> as somebody that knows a breaking story, a massive breaking story when you see one, you have to say, gene and i were talking last night, and it's just -- it's just one of those moments that stopped washington with, like you said, a gigantic -- well, i will tell you, gene, why don't you ask walter the next question? so much to dig into here from your paper. >> yeah, walter, i guess the obvious question, the heart of the question is you have ginni thomas, who we see from these

texts, is completely off the rails. we have justice thomas, who was the lone dissenter in the decision that the committee could, in fact, get these materials turned over from the national archives. how do we deal with that nexus? how do we deal with the questions that this raises about a sitting supreme court justice? >> well, i will focus on one thing, which is chief justice roberts. a man of great integrity, and a person that cares very much about the integrity of the court especially at a time when everybody considers the court to be totally partisan. this is not just the case of the court being partisan, this is a case of some totally unhinged person who is married to a supreme court justice making texts, and then her husband on the supreme court voting not to allow those things to become public, even though all of the other justices, democratic and

republican-leaning justices did so. i think what the chief justice roberts has to do is to figure out a way, since there's no code of conduct, no code of ethics for the supreme court, and this is not something congress can do because we have a separation of powers, and chief justice has to figure out how to have operating procedures and standards, and a way certain justices can come together and enforce a code of ethics to the others on the court. >> this is new territory for sure. this really is. walter isakson, thank you for being on this morning. coming up, the impact of the war on ukraine spans generations with an especially heavy toll on children. ahead we will talk to an english teacher and mother of two who traveled hundreds of miles after

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welcome back. we have been talking about the brutal war in ukraine, a devastating reality for the civil yaps there. a warning now, some of this footage is graphic. >> we want to go to school. >> we want to sleep in bed, not in shelters. >> we want to listen to music.

>> we want to learn every day. >>. >> we want to see planes, but not the enemy's planes. >> we want to be in the fresh air, not the smoke and violence. >> we want to play oour friends. >> that video was put together by the students of our next guest. be every the war in ukraine, she ran an education center with more than 2,000 students. some of whom you just saw in that video. now, she's living on the opposite side of her country, after survive ac bombing in her home city. yulia joins us now. welcome back to "morning joe."

i know we've had you on before. i would like to take this slowly and tell us everything you can. what do you -- how can you put into words what has happened to your life? >> the city everything is -- in our house. of course, a lot of -- [ inaudible ] yeah, of course, i see what's happening in my native city and my heart cries because people cook food on the fire outside. they don't have toilets because

there is no water. they go to the toilets outside. they don't have no oil connection. and some trucks bring water to some regions. you never know when there are water. of course, there are a lot of illnesses. so much illness because people can't wash even their hands and they drink water. now -- they take from the river, because they have no water. people have tombs every -- i in my city, a bridge --

>> all right. we're going to re-establish the audio there. it's, obviously, very difficult to get a connection. and, clearly, yulia got out with her two kids and their cat as you can see. and the devastation is left behind. it must haunt her as she you could hear it in her voice. >> it must. and you know, she was, it was hard to hear, but she was describing just the difficulty in just daily life and people can't wash their hands. they can't practice hygiene the way they should. so people are getting ill with intestinal diseases and things like that. it is just the scale of the tragedy is unimaginable and to watch this every day, to watch the russians essentially

conducting, exiting a war crime on such a grand scale by attacking civilians. that's what they're down to. they're not wing on the ground against the ukrainian military. but that i can attack civilians at l. they can kill civilians at will. and that's what they're doing. and, you know, how can we, how can nato, how can the west, how can the united states stop that and the answer is there is no easy answer to that. >> there is no easy answer and most of these world leaders will say, it is putin's decision to stop. >> exactly. >> the with question is how to herd him towards that decision? i haven't heard of any break through any time soon. we are through trying to get her back. we hear about cities like chernihiv and mariupol.

>> par poll. >> it is flattened. >> the city is gone. there was a thriving port city in the south of ukraine that is something like 90% of the structures in the city have been damaged and some as we see have been pulverized, reduced to cinders, basically. it is just stunning the devastation of modern weapons to, one didn't think one would see scenes like this. >> today. >> and what are the food and drugstrations for people in mariupol? it's why we are hoping to get her connection back. it's because reporters have been driven out. and the ukrainian people want very much to know that they're suffering in their death and their agony is not in vain and that it is seen by the world. >> the last report, had to flee

and sort of make their way out and there is something like 100,000 people still trapped in mar poll. mostly underground i would guess. >> with stories that need to be told. up next, we will go to ukraine, a former heavyweight boxer has traded in his gloves for guns. he joins us at the top of the hour. e hour >> it can all add up. kesimpta is a once-monthly at-home injection... that may help you put these rms challenges in their place. kesimpta was proven superior at reducing the rate of relapses, active lesions, and slowing disability progression vs aubagio. don't take kesimpta if you have hepatitis b, and tell your doctor if you have had it, as it could come back. kesimpta can cause serious side effects, including infections.

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with u.s. service members. earlier today, the president appeared alongside the head of the european commission to announce plans to help europe reduce its diplomacy on russian oil. meanwhile, the government in mariupol now says 300 civilians were killed when a russian missile struck that theater last week. there were inscriptions on both sides of the building that read children in russian intended to prevent an attack from the air. as many as 1,000 people were inside that building. more than 130 people were rescued. this reporting from ukraine's deputy prime minister who says that i are now using facial recognism technology to identify dead russian soldiers. we'll have more on that new reporting ahead and what they're doing with those identifications. nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard everything

el has the latest from on the ground in ukraine. >> reporter: overnight, russia continued its bombing campaign, striking a fuel depot outside kiev, trying to cut supplies to the capital and topple the government in a long war of attrition n. kharkiv to the east, russia bombed more apartment buildings. in the city, relatives held a funeral for boris romanchenco. he was killed by a russian bomb that hit his home. his son said his memory will not be forgotten, even though many of the family's papers and photographs were destroyed. across kharkiv, the war is dragging on. many have been living down in the subway stations for a month now. it's russia's justification for the war that bothers natalia. she says she has friends in russia who believe the russia propaganda, they're trying to top him the fascist and neo-nazi

government. i have been sheltering with my friend in the metro for a month. they do not believe me. they say it's you to blame, you, you, you, russian state tv described russian troops as liberators, insisting they never target civilians. these are the first images from inside a theater in mariupol russia attacked nine days ago, where hundred his of ukrainians were sheltering. covered in dust, they seem dazed. many are women, children, elderly. the missile hit the center of the theater. people are evacuating the site. mariupol city official witnesses claim 300 people were killed in the attack. nbc news cannot verify that claim. the the ter is in the center of mariupol and had been clearly marked in russian to indicate children were inside.

russia denied it carried out the attack. ukraine is holding back can russian assault for now. but it faces an army eight times its size, president zelenskyy called on leaders to stand with ukraine and people around the world to take to the votes in solidarity with his nation. >> joining us now, vladimir putin klitschko, his brother is the mayor of kiev. so my first to you, sir, what is latest you are hearing across ukraine? >> the fights are going down around the country in this case from the east and the south side, more dignity of the russian forces trying to get closer and closer and further to the example as well. around the capital, all those satellite ccities, they have ben destroyed, civilians killed.

it's pretty much the same images, disturbing images of people killed and it really doesn't matter to russians, the russian army, how much distraction and how much pain is due to the ukrainians. it's just remievendz me of a war that was second world war avenue after congressional law was put in place and in the '90s, where ukraine evolved in milks or the borders. we totally understand everything that's happening in russia and brain washing propaganda works for the past years and people really believe that russian army believes and people in russia believe that this deep maximusization of ukraine, we have a president with youish

reports -- jewish roots, the member had over 131,000 people. it's called holocaust by bullets. unfortunately, they landed in the same place killing civilance with so eventually this live will come to an end and justice will come over this vile i crime. this is war crime what is happening and event wail wale is going to happen. i just wish this wind e end of the war would come sooner. my request to ukraine and western allies in this case, we have been as ukrainians fighting for our feel and democratic principals we shear with or allies. we definitely need support now. we need humanitarian support, military equipment support.

we ned everything and a lot. and i promise to you, we, ukrainians will give back multiple times. because we are defending not just ukraine. with redefending the world. it's the world war that everybody is afraid of,th already started in ukraine. this senseless war that putin started them and making the ukrainians are mistakable of history, listen to this. we shouldn't exist. we are a mistake of the history. this nonsense should come to an end. the sooner it happens, the better it is. >> so, vladmir, your brother

vitale is the mayor of kiev. it looks like the russians have been stymied and can't get all the way into the city. what is the state of the fight inside kiev? what are you hearing from your brother? will ukrainian military and civilians hold that city? >> we ukraines will hold not just the capital, the russian army, russian beats and russian soldiers never become the to be here. we are unite. our will is strong. we le defend. i know it's not my pain. i am not representing any office behind me, so i do not have it. my brother is the mayor of the city. i'm speaking from sprault ukrainians, sister sts and brothers that we stand firm. we stand in arms. we will defend. we definitely feed support.

we need to have it now. the feats are going on in the streets of the city. rockets every day landing open the capital, in the capital, destroying the infrastructure, killing the innocent, cluster bombings and evidence of that, bombs which for biden. it's happening in ukraine. don't be passive observer, sanction russia. every cent that issue e russia is getting, they are using it for weapons to drill and generation. ukraine is a country, that they will evade and they're getting ready to announce it. we will grow. le le get first time. this is just the beginning. we will do anything for that,

trust us. >> vladmir klitschko, thank you so much. you said ukraine would give back. you all have bimp being so much to the west and americans. we greatly appreciate you being with us morning. thank you and god speed. >> thank you for your support. >> joe, we have yulia back with us now him she was forced to flee here home from russian forces. connection isn't there are best. she has fled to a relevant at thely safer place with her two sons, age 11 and 13 and their cat. i am wondering if you know anything about the school that you used to serve some 2,000 children were there. do you have word on the school, its fate, their fate?

about the school, no, are there any buildings left? -- i'm not sure, because almost all of it -- what about the children trying to communicate? we try to explain to them what's happening now and we are well controlled. we do what russians do, the moment to come, we are in the worst of our nation. we know that we will have victory main moment is time. we don't have much time. every day people are killed. every day women and children are

killed and civilians are killed and russians try to explain it aside, taking information from folks. they've try to bomb a big hotel in ukraine. they are putting in soldiers in their hotel. but they destroyed our victory heritage. they want to destroy everything of what we worshipped, everything that was precious to us. they kill folks and don't want to hear the ukrainian language. they call everybody that speak ukrainian language national terrorists. they say that they save us. we don't know why they are here. we want to stop the war. children ask to stop the war. we want them to go home. we don't want them to do

anything on our peaceful land, before we had a really good peaceful life. we were so happy. now all the houses are destroyed. people cook on the food outside, people go to the toil toilets outside. people don't have transport. they have no bridges which connected us to the rest of ukraine. that's why it's very difficult to determine even if he have it. but the connection is destroyed. a lot of houses are bombed as it was with my house. but my example, it is not only the example. it is the example of millions of you vainians in the world. people who just lost their houses there. [ inaudible ]

their whole life they lived here. my heard cries, how can i go back in the city where almost nothing is left i am sure our soldiers are so brave. every day they say that we will win. every day is a belief to them. and we will see how russians, how cruel they are. we believe in our president, our soldiers. and pray we win sooner. of course, we know it will win. but we need to make it sooner. >> yulia, thank you so. we're praying for you. ukrainian forces are now using facial recognition software to help identify russian sentence killed in

combat. ukrainians are uploading dead russians to the software that attempts to match them with billions of social media pictures. once a soldier is identified the family is notified and shown what has happened to their loved one. this is one of crane strategies in trying to inform russians who have limited access to non-state controlled media and information about the deaths being brought by their president's invasion. the program uses clearview ai, a new york-based facial recognition and they have billions stored from certainly media, including 2 billion from the russia facebook all tern testify. that within way to get the information into the russian people. still ahead on morning joe, we have bob woodward.

he broke that explosive story about ginny thomas working behind the scenes to overturn the tent 20 election. plus, what can we expect from poll happened, air force one is one hour away from landing near the border. you are watching morning joe. we'll be right back we'll be right bac (music throughout) k. k. welcome to the eat fresh refresh at subway wait, that's new wait, you're new too nobody told you? subway's refreshing with better ingredients, better footlongs, and better spokespeople. because you gotta you gotta refresh to be fresh we hit the bike trails every weekend

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election. in a moment, we will speak with bob woodward that broke the story. first garrett haake has the details. good morning. >> reporter: hey, willie. good morning. these text messages were among thousands mark meadows turned over late last year according to a person familiar. according to washington post they show the wife of a senior court justice leaning hard on trump's top aidee to do everything he could to overturn the results. ginny thomas, the wife of supreme court justice clarence thomas urges chief of staff mark meadows to fight the results. in one text, she reportedly writes, help this great president stand firm, mark. the majority knows biden and the left is attempting the greatest heist in our history.

she pushes debunked conspiracy theories, represent ac non-existent quote sting operations in 12 states. during that period a theory about watermark ballots escalated during the fringe group qanon. president trump frequently threatened to take them to the nation's top court. >> we want the law to be used in a proper manner so we'll be going to the u.s. supreme court. >> reporter: it never mentions the court or clarence thomas directly. critics argue it poses a conflict of interest in thomas who was a lone dissent in a ruling forcing many trump to turn over documents to the january 6th committee. >> should clarence thomas recuse

himself from anything to do in the election? >> there is a good possibility he and his wife spoke about those roemplts in an earlier this month, ginny thomas says she and her husband walk in separate lanes, clarence doesn't discuss discuss his work with me. she acknowledged she itended the sfraurn january 6th rally but left before he spoke the internal rules say justices should recuse themselves in cases of conflict of interest. it's purely on the honor system. thomas has recuse himself for things over he his career. never for his wife's interests. >> garrett, thanks so much,

mika. joining us now the pulitzer prize editor of the washington post bob woodward. he has co-authored the book "peril" they broke this story about the text messages, wow, i'm not sure which to begin. i will ask you to talk about two of the biggest take aways, is this a story about ginny thomas or a supreme court justice potentially being excised in a decision he made that he gave absolutely no reason for and none of the other justices went that way. >> well, we're going to find out. this is a story that is court e starting. what struck robert costa and myself is we got access to these text messages. when i walked in here with you, you had the look of wander that i've frankly over the years enever seen on your face.

>> you can't write these text messages and believe in the constitution so there is this massive conflict and what has happened to this i think fairly well known member of the republican party ginny thomas? she's an activists. she is entitled to that she has the first amendment rights. here she is playing the role of campaign manager and political consultant for the white house, coming in, talking about things that there is a self-righteous tone. we're on the moral high rode. meadows, himself, says is a fight of good versus evil. >> that's the role of jesus, king of kings, you know, to help in this i guess you have to call it a crusade that they were on.

so, tell me about meadows in this exchange. how did you read his texts? are they owe owe is he falling in with ginny thomas who is clearly all in on, let's overturn this election, is he all in on that? is he humoring her at times? >> well, i think sometimes. the white house chief of staff, i've written about 15 of them over the years, there is a lot of incoming. but it's that one where he says good versus evil and this is the problem we have in our politics and people who believe in the constitution, it's clear. once we have the election, the constitution in the electoral count act make it crystal clear

it now goes to the congress to certify the winner. in this process, it's sack ro samplth it's clear. it was vice president pence who resisted all of this pressure. but here we have ginny thomas not just being a part of the pressure campaign. her to say release the kraken. sydney powell and i will call her a wing nut. she is. she was the most extreme, most unhinged. by this time, donald trump decided sydney pile is off you the rails, yes, ginny thomas is with him. >> oh, make her in the face of

this lead ap this effort. >> willie. >> she reaches out to say she does not like the disparagement of sydney powell. who knows what it is, there is so much to point to there i would also asked when she saw the infamous press conference, he was swetding hair dye down his cheek. she wrote to mark meadows she was so moved to his attempt to overturn the election. the key question is whether or not justice thomas shares any of these feelings, mr. his decisions to recuse himself or national archives question. did you find anything that shows he shares the views of ginny thomas? >> we don't know that and at the same time the january 6th committee has demonstrated by

these texts is very aggressive and going after the actual story. there will be a question. do they want to subpoena ginny thomas? and that is about as delicate i mean you can almost hear the air vibrate when you raise that possibility. >> how can you not? >> there is a text she had a conversation with my best friend. how did you read that? >> he has publicly called his best friend and so there is an implication there. >> it seems like she's intonating towards him. we don't know. >> jonathan lemire. >> as reporters, let's skip the story and let's find out here. but there is an audacity in these messages.

there is a kind of at the end. >> fervor. >> at the end he says america will be lost if beelden wins. she says the biden crime family and so forth. i mean, this is what over the years we seen lots of true believers, republican party, democratic party, left and right. but these are the people who stay behind the scenes and run campaigns. they are not in a sense negotiating with the white house chief of staff of, this is the messaging, staffing directions. this is the strategy. >> and she happens to be married to a supreme court justice, jonathan lemire has the next question. >> great to see you, jaw dropping reporting. nicely done. the i want you to weigh in on

something we talkedant earlier, we talked about clarence thomas, chief roberts has been mind. of protecting the reputation, above, out of politics, now politics has landed on his doorstep. >> yes, this is a difficulty not just for roberts but the whole court. what is going on here? what is the obligation? the obligation happily is in the constitution and the laws. in one of these text messages, believe it or not, she says, we should talk to form were aid monica crawley. we know what happened to nixon and have we forgot lessons of

water gate. don't tamper with our election system. we have a system that has held its ground beautifully of the years and to have this. to see the passion, the sense of you can only look at this one way, what are -- what has happened? gene, you talk about this almost every week. >> yeah. >> the division in our politics is so great. it's not just on the right, it's on left as we know. so who is going to find a way to turn down the temperature? >> joe, jump in. >> well, again, let's go back to what mark meadows said in his text back after she sent crazed

qanon theories. he says this is a battle versus evil. he cited jesus christ. evil looks are like evil until the king of kings triumphs. do not grow wary. the fight continues. i have staked me career open it. i know a lot of people are fuss every focusing on, for me, though, that meadows statement is breath taking because you all, you and costa master it. this takes us into the mindset of people inside the trump white house who actually believe running the trump white house

actually believed they were doing jesus christ's work, undermining democracy and keeping it if power illegally a want-to-be tyrant. i got to ask you in all your years reporting on this trump white house, have you seen anything more shocking than what you uncovered in this story that was published just yesterday. >> in compareing is shots is a difficult business, particularly having done this for 50 years. but this, see, what the real 3w57d in this is all these attacks are after the election. we have a system. we hold the election. okay. now it's over and as we know every state, 50 states and the district of colombia submitted their electors and that was it.

along comes this lawyer who writes the memo saying, oh, no, there are several states. john eastman. c'mon, there werer is. >> reporter: it was investigated. so, at this moment you have to kind of say, we've all been in conflicts and battles. you have to kind of say, it's over. you lost. the constitution makes it very clear. ginny thomas is saying, no, no, no sflo this is the end of america. there is ap an emotionalism, a conviction. so, joe biden as we all know has

job finding a way to kind of get it down, get us to stop doing this. because this will -- >> destroy us joe has one more. >> sorry. >> i was going to zee say, where is the lead. you have a pill particular and wife of the supreme court jugs cities and chief of staff of the united states again working to overthrow a presidential election because they don't like the outcome. that is just absolutely breath taking and i am just the curious, you've changed the arc of american his they're and journalism. 50 years ago with your watergate reporting, put this in context

with what you uncovered during the watergate? >> well, we're going to see as in watergate, it took a couple of years to get to the bottom. even that was not the bottom when nixon. we have to be patient here. i always repeat myself. but somebody's got to fet this down and to see somebody like ginny thomas and mark meadows. i mean, mark meadows wasn't just a guy in the white house he was the top aide. >> he was the chief of staff. >> exactly. >> and to take this position after the election, you know, if these texts were before the election. you'd say, okay, this is the

political insufferable political discourse one lives through on a daily basis. >> election after its decided. the owe i you know certified, rubber stamped, that's it. it's done. the thing is these are major figures in the republican party. ginny thomas has been active in the republican party. a mainstream very conservative by but mark meadows, on conservative side. yet, office they are talking like weird cult numbers. >> it's the call tow action. we can't permit this. we have to save the country. this is -- and so what's the to

h do list? as you pointed out, sydney powell, most extreme, rejected in the end by trump, himself. and here we have the wife of clarence thomas, the justice, saying you know make her the lead. make her the face. we're going to continue this feet and the problem is, in many people's mind, that fight continues. one of the text, ginny thomas says don't cave to the elites. the 73 million people, those who voted for trump are counting on you. we can't take this, we can't lie down for this. >> wow. >> and so, how do you -- joe biden has the biggest international a catastrophe in

decades on his hands. he also has a simultaneously political division in this country that mirrors that and i have known biden for almost 50 years. he has a responsibility and an obviously gaoition to come up with a plan to deal with ukraine most important issue by far. he's got to come back. because what happens at home matters and what happens hat home is not good now. >> yeah, joe. >> bub barks i just want to underline something you said in ginny thomas' tweets, one of her tweets, it is so indicative of how the republican party plays victim, having played this phony

populist game. you have the wife of a supreme court justice, one of the most powerful conservative people in washington, d.c. talking to the chief of staff in the white house, the president of the united states the mote powerful person in the world saying, don't cave to the elites. these two are the elites. they are at the center of power, if anybody is at the center of power. she's throwing out victim hoodment isn't that so representative of what lubs have been doing for years. they played victims when they're the ones most firmly enskronsed in power. if you look at senators and princeton and harvard, are on and on and on.

it's a phone populist game. >> the evidence is there in these texts. i think we have the pull back or i personally say it's not just the right lane. there is a lot of this kind of emotional -- there is only one way to look at this in the left. and if we as a country have to face that note. gene, up disagree? >> you are getting an extreme voice yes. i don't think this is. >> right or left. >> an equal balance. i this i pause what you saw was the republican party at large basically losing its mind but going, becoming a trump-ist

party and adopting positions that establishment republicans were horrified by. very established republicans horrified by. seeing something equivalent. >> absolutely a fair and provable point and the question is with ginny thomas and mark meadows, are they fringe representatives or do they represent what you are talking about? i think there is a little of both, but i just think it would be a mistake to say this is only the republicans and trump. but you are absolutely right, they got their president and evidence that robert costa and i

have, trump is going to run again. that may change. that may not happen, obviously. the number 73 many is a big number a lot of them are this for him. now biden, he has that on his shoulders and a very important way for this country. >> joe. >> gene, i want to follow up with you, gene. you now over at the last year or two i have been critical of the left. they're going for 6.6 let's build back better, or price tags, we are talking fiscal matters. that on the left. let's talk about on the right.

by the way, even if you want to go to the social issues, 0.003% of the population is transgender that people say they want to be friends with vladimir putin because of 0.003% of the population. okay. so that's the left that makes conservatives so crazy, they start moving to hungary and we have, by the way. has highest. ginny thomas, are they talking fiscal issues, social issues that can be debated? >> no. they are talking about overthrowing a duly-elected

president of the united states, arresting him. arresting his family, putting them on a barge to stand trial off guantonomo bay. there is, that is a false equivalency and while there are progressives, there are prockives on certain policy issues are not main stream with the rest of the american people. i do not see leaders of the democratic party saying biden crime party co-conspirators elected will be put on a break. >>. >> information have been arrested and tagged for beat

ballot, the republican president trying to defraud the american people and still the presidency and will be living in margins. if there is a democratic parallel in washington, d.c., let me know right now. because i don't even see it. >> i mean, what itself so great to hear is your passion, joe. >> no, it's the truth. i could have said that quietly. it's the truth. >> if i can go back to one more of the begin fithomas text. she quoted, she said, quoted, there are no rules in war and it's clear from this text and the world we are living in, people ob both sides, maybe

large portions look at politics as war. it isn't war. it shouldn't be war. even go back to the nixon period. go back to the george w. bush period. there were difference but. >> but democrats are following the rules, bob. they are. nobody is saying there is no rules and we just you know put them on a barge. >> a solid guess, it's war. >> okay. >> that's what some peel are saying, right? >> the point i am trying to make is the people on the left and the right who think we're in some sort of war. a survival war. it is the end of america if it doesn't go that way. >> and questioning the rules is

important, though. you know, there is no rules in war playing by the rules. >> well, i know bob woodward. >> you make your case. >> you say you see it coming. so i think we will see woodward, thank you so much for your -- >> incredible reporting. just incredible reporting, bob. we appreciate you being here. some developing news we just learned from national security adviser jake sullivan that president biden will deliver a major address tomorrow, speak of the high stakes of what's unfolding in eastern europe. msnbc of course will have full coverage. and i do want to say, mika, i agree with gene that if politics is war, republicans come with tridents and -- a scene out of "anchorman" and everything else, and democrats, i have found, they fight like this, by marcus

of queensbury rules, and what do they bring, gene? >> they bring briefing books to a knife fight is what they do. >> exactly. exactly. >> that's -- >> not in the old ways if you know, gene. >> that is big news about biden's address. let's take that in for a second. our next guest says america is wallowing in political silly season and putin's war in ukraine should sober us up. will it? will the president's address sober us up? we'll be back in two minutes. lactaid is 100% real milk, just without the lactose. so you can enjoy it even if you're sensitive to dairy. so anyone who says lactaid isn't real milk is also saying mabel here isn't a real cow. and she really hates that. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

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land center for cultural engagement at southwestern seminary, he's a frequent contributor to "usa today." his latest op-ed is entitled "america is wallowing in political silly season." putin's war in ukraine should sober us up. joe, i think we need to ren force what we just reported that president biden will be doing an address to the nation. >> yeah. it can be an important speech. dan, thanks for being with us. we have you fired up once before. you keep coming back. we trial to keep it straight and narrow here. so you and i have seen let's just say our tribe at times, perhaps go off the rails. tell me about the first -- the last month and what i've seen is a clarifying moment, i'm sure you've seen it as a clarifying

moment as well. that there is actually good versus evil. there is freedom versus totalitarianism, and there is right versus wrong. >> i think you're right, joe. i think putin's war in ukraine hopefully has woken up the west. i heard john kerry say a few weeks ago he was surprised by the war, that he didn't think countries did this anymore. but actually, this is really the nature of what countries do. the 80 years of peace in europe is really an anomaly. i think for most of us, for many people in our country, there's not a lasting memory of when the west was threatened, when freedom and democracy were threatened. i think the last world war ii veterans are dying off, so there's a fading memory. so i think putin's actions have really hopefully sobered us up to realize that freedom and democracy are not things that can be taken for granted. they have to be fought for and defended in every generation.

and i think hopefully both this and the disastrous pullout from afghanistan, those ramifications, have really sobered up our politics and hopefully we'll put forward leaders who are statesmen, who really understand the gravity of what's at stake in the world. >> so, adrienne, watching president biden speaking after the summit yesterday in brussels on the world stage, you really got a sense of the complexity of this crisis and a little bit of frustration on his part trying to help people understand that. >> mm-hmm. >> because it is hard to watch the images coming out of ukraine. >> it is. >> and i think the emotional impulse is to say do something. is president biden doing enough to communicate to the american people how complex the realities of this are? >> i think he is, mika, and i think all you have to do is turn on the television or open the newspaper or look on facebook or

your social media accounts to see what is happening as well. i don't think it's necessarily incumbent on him to always make the case. you know, however, i think he's got to keep talking to the american people, explaining, being very transparent about what we're doing, why we're handling the situation the way that we are, and i think he's done a great job of doing that so far. >> willie? >> so, dan, i share your hope, anyway, that war will put into perspective some of the silly fights we've had at home. for example, what a violation of freedom actually looks like. it's not having to wear a mask to protect people around you in the middle of a pandemic, for example, but do you think it's too much to ask to have political leaders maybe change their view of the world? it doesn't seem like the sitting ones have much. >> well, i think this is not only the leadership class, but i think it's sobering up the american people. when i travel around the country and talk to folks, putin's war

in ukraine has really arrested people's attention. rank-and-file people across the political divide, left and right. you know, there's a few extreme voices out there that are pro putin, but for the most part people are outraged and nervous and worried about threats to freedom and democracy in the west. so hopefully, our leaders will hear that and see that, and lead in a way that's responsible. i think a lot of times we take for granted what we have. as you said, sometimes things that seem like incursions on freedom and the rhetoric we use on the right and left is not fit for our times. >> daniel darling, as always, thank you so much for being here. and thank you for your witness to those in your community and and the country. we greatly appreciate it. his books include "the dignity rev laugs," "a way with words,"

and "the character of easter." >> adrienne, i wanted to think about how we should be watching the president's address that we reported is going to be happening and really all the different challenges surrounding him. this is like the utmost of pressure that he is under. >> right. exactly. he's delivering this address abroad. look, again, i think he's got to make -- continue to make the case to the american people and to the world why we are doing what we're doing, why we're handling the situation in the way we are. he's done a great job of that so far, but he has to keep feeding information on the global stage because there's to so much at stake here, so many moving parts. i'm looking forward to what he has to say. >> thank you very much. and reminder, our first u.s. forbes 50 over 50 list, madeleine albright. nominations are open for the second list. submissions are being taken. the deadline is fast

approaching, so submissions close on april 3rd. go to forbes.com to nominate women who are finding great success after 50, after 60, after 70, 80, and 90. that does it for us this morning. kristen welker picks up the coverage right now. good morning. i am kristen welker live in warsaw, poland. it is friday, march 25th, and we start with breaking news this morning. president biden on his way to poland right now after meeting this morning with the european commission before departing brussels. he's set to arrive in just a few minutes where he'll visit u.s. troops helping to bolster nato defenses. poland is the epicenter of the humanitarian crisis triggered by russia's war in ukraine. taking in more than 2 million refugees in the last four weeks, more than