hi there. it is 4:00 in new york. i'm chris jansing. in nor nicolle wallace. president biden putting a spotlight on the humanitarian catastrophe caused by the war in ukraine with a visit to poland. he visit add polish town meeting with u.s. service members stationed there. he also got a briefing on

humanitarian efforts. poland accepted nearly 2 million of more than 3.6 million people who have fled ukraine. president biden will meet with some of those refugees tomorrow and deliver an address on the war in ukraine which is become the biggest foreign policy crisis of his presidency and potentially a defining moment for the united states and allies. the president talked about the stakes during his visit today. here's a bit of what he told them. >> what you're engaged in much more than alleviating the pain and suffering of people of ukraine. we are in a new phrase. your generation. this is an infliction point. every four or five generations comes a fundamental change. won't be the same in terms of organizational structure and the question is who's going to prevail? democracies going to prevail and

the values we share or autocracies prevail? that's what's at stake. >> and "the new york times" reports on the mix of fear and opportunity felt by president biden and nato leaders. the fear is that the aftermath of the invasion transformed europe two armed camps one again, though this time the iron curtain looks different. the opportunity is that 30 days into a misbegotten war russia has made so many mistakes that president vladimir putin of russia may fail at the objective of taking all of ukraine. that sense of opportunity and the stunning once unthinkable poerpt that putin's invasion may fail is fueled by new facts. first, a pentagon official say the city of kherson is not fully

in their control. ukrainians putting up stiff resistance there. the pentagon believe that is russia is also bringing in reinforcements. today signs that russia might be scaling back its operation. "the new york times" reports that russian military leaders said they would focus on the donbas region claimed by russia backed separatists since 2014. western and ukrainian officials treat that with caution given the devastation of the cities and the soaring civilian death toll and officials say 300 people killed in that air strike on the theater in mariupol converted to a shelter. nbc news has not independenty verified that claim. video from shown inside you see dozens of people covered in dust and debris and sky news spoke to

evacuees from mariupol and went through checkpoints with signs that read children. take a listen to a young mother that fled mariupol with her family. >> i don't know really how to describe it because you don't know will you be alive in a minute or no or son will be alive or no. one night he said to me, my son, he is 10 years old. sorry. he ask me, mama, will i see my birthday in august or no? will i be alive? and i didn't know what to say to him. >> joining our coverage, nbc news seechb your white house correspondent kelly o'donnell live in warsaw and correspondent ali arouzi live from krahn

ukraine. you cannot hear that without having your heart break. are people there able to follow even that the president is there and based on the conversations you have had with people fleeing, what's the president likely to hear from refugees when he meets with them tomorrow? >> reporter: hi, chris. i can tell you speaking to many ukrainian people here there is a sense of solidarity that president biden is so close by and grateful for all the humanitarian aid, the money, the weapons that the united states have ginn and that nato has given but thank you keep saying it is not enough. they need more to fight the russians and running low on supplies, ammunition, need the migs and defensive systems. and they are really desperate. these guys are holding a strong

fight against an army much more formidable than theirs and think especially nato has done far too little to help them considering that they're on the border with nato. i spoke to one ex-military guy here training some guys that are fighting on the ukraine -- similar to the national guard here and he basically echoing what zelenskyy is saying. many people do. this fight doesn't stop in ukraine. this if putin isn't stopped this terror could come to every home in europe. that they are caught in a gray zone between the west and russian and fighting this fight not just for themselves but for the west. as for the question about what president biden might hear from the refugees he will hear horror stories. they are living in appalling conditions, especially the people that managed the east of the country.

cities like mariupol which is ultimately destroyed. there's nothing left of mariupol. you mentioned the theater there. up to 1200 people hiding in that theater and can't verify it independently but 300 people may have died in there. vulnerable people. elder lib and children hiding in there. young mothers. there's pictures of disturbing. people covered in dust shell shocked. literally. not an expression. making the way out of the theater. i think that will make president biden upset because it's made everybody here upset. i spoke to a young lady who escaped mariupol and talked about having coffee with the friends at the theater. it was a place to gather with one another and she was going to take refuge and managed to escape mariupol the day before. just the escape was a horror

story. she said that crossing the border the russian soldier taunt her and the resilience is incredible. >> we thought it was amazing week one, two, three, four. now is second month and remain resilient. thank you for that. kelly, about the president's decision to give what the white house is calling a major address tomorrow. do we know what we can expect to hear? >> reporter: to some degree we expect that the president will root his remarks in this place to talk about how poland is connected to this crisis. they have opened the country's doors to so many refugees. and there is a history here and he'll talk about that history, poland is a force trying to keep it neighbor to the east from

taking over. if we go back to the soviet period, that warsaw was a part of the movement to stop soviet aggression. if you go back to the period, the political movement known as solidarity, one of the beacons in the west to try to stop the east from taking over. making that connection to poland and the place to have independence. expect the president talking about that. history and the fight for democracy and then what is at stake for the western world, free people around the world and for ukraine. this has been a trip for the president that has been a combination of some very complicated issues. the economics of what has happened here. the diplomacy, the military components and the unknowns. what will putin do next? what ifs of chemical or biological weapons and how would the u.s. and nato and g7

partners respond? and then the human piece, a chance to meet with refugees from krahn. he got to see american service personnel today from the 82nd airborne to be part of the protective force to send the signal to moscow that nato stands firm. a biggest message the white house wants to give is about unity among allies, a clear message to putin to stop the war, and support of ukraine in a variety of ways. that speech has to accomplish a lot of things and it is a culmination of the trip, what he learned and where this goes. a thing we hear from the president is unity that they have shown has to last and how to keep that going. chris? >> kelly o'donnell who has covered countless trips like this for many presidents and

lucky to have you there. thank you. joining the coverage helene cooper and michael mcfaul and ri tired navy admiral james stavridis. helene, nato thinks that putin may fail. is there a sense of what that might look like? >> hi, chris. thank you for having me. it is really strange how much in the past few days the tone has started to shift on the idea, something that nobody would contemplate a few weeks ago of a russian military failure in ukraine and seeing signs of that increasingly. just a couple hours ago we had a pentagon briefing in which a senior pentagon official talked

through all of the went around the map of the country of ukraine looking at the places where the russian military is failing. to the point now that in the region under a kherson, the first city that the russian troops were able to take, it's now the pentagon is putting that back as a contested area saying the russians do not have full control and lost full control of that area. kyiv, the russian troops who were on the way in, have now backed off and have taken defensive positions according to the pentagon. when you talk about and ask about how nato thinks this might play out you heard the russian announcement this morning that they're now going to focus and concentrate and prioritize the donbas region. it's unclear what that exactly means but one pentagon official

told me that he expects that that might be a negotiating ploy on the -- from vladimir putin. he is hoping to strengthen his hand in the eastern part of the country and we'll see where that goes. >> i want do get your read on this, add moirl. looking at what the pentagon did for reporters with this litany of losses and ways in which russia appears to be struggling from kyiv to kherson. how do you think members view putin's chances and how does that play into the way they move forward? >> from kyiv to kherson, sounds like a memoir. i don't think they're going to go well on the russian side. i think there's a growing awareness the ukrainians stepped

up magnificently. very much a function of the support they get from across the border, from nato, scoring hits. the number in my head is 10,000, 12,000 russian dead. maybe 15,000 killed in action. twice as the u.s. lost in wars in iraq and afghanistan. >> can i just stop you there? with that sense of perspective, admiral, boggles the mind. help us understand from the military sense what that says about the ukrainians who were not supposed to be still fighting at this point. >> i would encourage anybody to put it in perspective, think about how we feel in the united states about our forever wars. how much they hit the national psyche. i assure you as a military officer they hit the military. this will be a generational impact, particularly on the

russian military which is being shown to the world to be a shadow of what they seem to have thought they were. it would be naive to believe that putin does not have plenty of dirty tricks up the sleeve. we talked about chemical. could be the chechnyas and syrians and shock troops moving in or assault from the sea and bombardment on the cities so this one has a way do go. anybody who says they know how it will come out i'm not sure it is time to make that call quiet. >> let me ask you about something you wrote in bloomberg titled "putin isn't crazy enough to use nukes, or is he?" you say that nukes are unlikely. more likely is the use of a chemical weapon. a chemical or biological attack

would terrorize the population. a key objective in the plan b strategy now that plan a has failed. it would also help him conserve inventory of missiles and bombs shrinking rapidly. few things empty a city faster than a cloud of nerve gas. at this point, where do you put the chances that something like that happens? >> i think there's relatively low. chemical weapons are hard to control. obviously huge impact globally if it could be definitively attributed. there's -- you pick a number. 10 million cell phones around ukraine. someone will get a video where it came from perhaps. it's still a high risk move for putin. i don't think he's ratedy to make that choice. western intelligence is

concerned. moving nuclear, biological, chemical units to the front. preparing responses to run from conventional response, putting up a no-fly zone. fighter jets to the ukrainians. going in cyber another option. so certainly the west is taking it seriously and we should. a low probability. >> in the context of nigh and playing a bit of what president biden said today at his meeting with poland's president. >> the single most important thing that we can do from the outset is keep the democracies united in our opposition and our effort to curtail the

devastation that is occurring at the hands of a man who quite frankly i think is a war criminal. and i think will meet the legal definition of that. >> the president, ambassador srks stressing the unity of the west and the nato allies. not sure it was a given but how do you think putin views what happened over the past few days? >> i think it is good news and bad news. one hand the "the washington post" is united. nato is united. i don't see that changes and applaud president biden for being the leader of that. there were no new big announcements from the nato summit of new weapons for the ukrainians. if you listen to zelenskyy that's what he said. i need more weapons, planes, tanks. listen to what he said. the chief of staff spoke today at the atlantic council.

the same message. we need to keep the two thoughts in the head at the same time. one hand ukrainians are performing heroically on the battlefield and achieved things nobody predicted. not me. at the same time, they are still in a fight for their lives even russia's lost 15,000. they got 185,000 in ukraine. putin signaled no -- i have no seen signal from put jn a general said what he said. putin never said once we'll stop here in donbas. we want to sue for peace. he is going for the jugular in mariupol and i think that's the place to watch, a devastating loss if mariupol falls and hear zelenskyy saying thank you but you need to do more. we are still in this fight. >> to that point, ambassador, we talk about red lines in terms of

russia. we all are already in the middle of a humanitarian crisis. 300 people dead in one theater. is there a red line for nato in terms of attacks on civilians and the escalation of the humanitarian crisis and the death and destruction. >> it is just horrible to watch. barbarism. 4 million left. 10 million internally displaced. i think the president is clear. he said no to a no-fly zone and doesn't want an american soldier shooting down a russian pilot. i think that's the right response. it's a difficult one, a difficult one to talk to ukrainians as i do every day and agree with president biden. i think it's the right stance.

i think it would take an attack on nato to be involved and i don't think that's a high probability event. he's a barely fighting the ukrainian army and then go and attack the most powerful alliance in the world anchored by the most powerful military in the world? he is unhinged and upset but i don't think he's suicidal and i don't think that will happen. >> thank you. ambassador mcfaul will stick around. the president calling it an international responsibility when announcing that we will welcome refugees here in the u.s. but the questions of exactly where do they go, how long can they stay? we'll try to answer how it will work. russian forces and the world taken by surprise from the fierce ukrainian resistance.

new intercepted audio analyzed by "the new york times" reveals a russian military struggling more than it appears and potentially committing war crimes. later, the calls for justice thomas to recuse himself from cases related to the january 6 investigation. all those stories and more after this. re after this blurry near vision. wait, what? it sounded like you just said an eye drop that may help you see up close. i did. it's an innovative way to... so, wait. i don't always have to wear reading glasses? yeah! vuity™ helps you see up close. so, i can see up close with just my eyes? uh-huh. with one drop in each eye, once daily. in focus? yep. [laughs] like, really? really. vuity™ is a prescription eye drop to help you see up close. ow! wait, what? wait. wait? wait, what? see for yourself.

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we came here two days ago because we need help. we don't know what to do and how to -- if currently we're planning to find a house in the

uk. we don't have anything in uk but just people who are willing to help us. >> that was a 15-year-old ukrainian girl with her mother at a shelter in poland with thousands of other refugees. they don't have a plan for where they go next. 2.2 million ukrainians fled to poland alone, a country stretched so thin having taken in the most of the ukrainians forced to leave their homes. president biden will meet with ukrainian refugees before he leaves poland tomorrow. the u.s. has now pledged to take in 100,000 refugees as well. joining us is unicef spokesperson. james, you know how this works. talk to us about the complexities of getting refugees settled and where do you think the preparations are now and are

your folks in the u.s. working for the possibility that there could be an influx of ukrainian immigrants to the united states, ukrainian refugees? >> yeah. i think first and foremost we have to look at as you saw with that 15-year-old girl what everyone has been through. where the journey started aen the governments need to consider the path. probably started in a bunker in kyiv or kharkiv and finally got to that position and seeing the numbers slow from extraordinary numbers the needs are growing. we see the announcement from usa and that's welcomed by governments because as you rightly say 2 million plus in poland in just a month is almost unprecedented so countries around the world are going to have to show the same sort of open hands and big heartedness

to absorb so many people that didn't want to have to leave their country. >> ambassador, putting in perspective 100,000 refugees. many have said they want to stay in europe and be close to go back to the country but put that in perspective and how quickly do you think the u.s. and many organizations willing to help place refugees to get geared up to do that? >> i applaud president biden for announcing it. 100,000 is better than what it was before. i want that number to go up and want them to be processed as fast as possible. that is a key point. i have a fellow from ukraine at the institute at stanford. his parents fled first from crimea in 2014. he is from crimea. went to kyiv and flee.

four weeks ago arriving they were told the first interview would be in august to seek asylum to join their son in california. this is welcomed news to speed the process up. they need to move out quickly to help our ally it is poles. so that those people that have places to go can get out as fast as possible as the heroic poland country does what it is doing today. >> james, how can an organization like unicef experienced in this facilitate that? what are you doing right now? >> look. our role is very much around helping the people between countries and helping them go between poland and ukraine. food, stress, people moving country to country is

complicated but that's the high commission for human rights. unicef as people make the journeys in ukraine or romania it is about getting support and not gist food and blankets but starting to thankfully warm up a little bit. that's stress support. the longer this goes on and the longer children are bearing the brunt the longer they do the more likely to get a generation of ukrainian kids that know war. we can't afford that. so an organization like unicef does a lot of trauma support for children in poland, here this ukraine. the fastest way out is for the attacks to stop. >> at the beginning of the hour we had a sound from a mother who said the child asked her if she

would see the next birthday. i assume you working with many children as shocking as that is to hear is not unusual. what should folks opening the homes and hearts frankly in poland or the united states and need to know and expect when these families who have been through a trauma and may still frankly have loved ones back in ukraine or lost loved oning already, what should folks know? >> it is a great question. it comes down to trying put ourselves in that situation. the people a month ago were managers and teachers and now as you say not just left a country in war. not just left the homes and

livelihoods. they have left their husbands and children watched as the dad saying you every going to poland. i'm staying here. anyone big heartedness trying to get a sense of what they endured and the history in the united states or australia speaks loudly that migrants, refugees bring an enormous amount to a society so i think tolerance and trying to put ourself in their shoes for a few meters of the journey. >> let me ask you, ambassador, a couple things i raised as concerns. one in particular that well, yes, the ukrainians need help but what about refugees from other countries that have been waiting and hoping to come into the united states? does there need to be a

widespread reassessment of this country, of the acceptance of refugees and how that can and should happen? >> no. those are very valid questions. i get them from my syrian colleagues and friends every day. i think there should be -- re-evaluate the entire way we deal with refugees. the system is not working very well and crises sometimes creates opportunities to do things a better way. second thing i would say is that two wrongs don't make a right. just because we did it wrong in the past that should be used as a reason not to do the right thing at this moment and the incredibly horrific moment in european history. >> michael, as always, thank you. james, to all you folks at unicef on the ground and working so hard, even after the tv

cameras go away and they will and the crisis will remain, we thank you so much for what you do and taking the time to talk to us today. despite the overwhelming advantage in troop numbers, russian forces have been plagued by communication problems. we'll discuss the end game for a beleaguered russian military up against a determined and united ukrainian troop force. when we found out our son had autism, his future became my focus. lavender baths calmed him. so we made a plan to turn bath time into a business. ♪ ♪ find a northwestern mutual advisor at nm.com

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we have new reports to tell you about that suggest that ukrainians' determination to save the country is meeting with real success. here's an example. "forbes" is rarting that the ukrainian military has more tanks than when the war started mainly from capturing russian troops. the war rages on. "the new york times" investigations team kind of pulled back the curtain on the invasion analyzing intercepted radio communications of russian forces that illustrate the realities on the ground. soldiers struggling with a lack of fuel, water and food supplies. desperate and disorganized and showing potential war crimes being committed. take a listen. [ speaking foreign language ]

>> cover the residential area with artillery. joining the conversation clint watts. former con surl about the to the fbi. now with the foreign potential sy research institute and retired four-star general barry mccaffrey. clint, what was your first reaction hearing the radio transmissions? >> not as surprised now than a month ago. i think that's very clear is they don't have secure communications. they haven't taken out telecommunications, infrastructure i think because they need it to do their own battle. they're not as sophisticated as we thought and revealing and undermine the disinformation.

separately hearing them talk about alleged nazis running around ukraine. they are targeting residential areas. the ukrainian military is listening, too. i'm sure seeing the successes it's due in large part to how inept and the inability to communicate by the forces. >> also on the other side, they were not execing the ukrainians to fight as hard or as well as they have and we have heard at the morale going down among the russian forces. let me play more from the communications. [ speaking foreign language ] >> looking for retreat routes. >> yeah. two things happen.

one i think the more professional units thought this was a cake walk invading ukraine particularly in the south where they met the single battles. separately many soldiers of russia didn't know they were going into an invasion. some issued tickets for a return trip home and say drive into ukraine. at first i thought it was lies that p.o.w.s thought it was a trauning exercise. i don't know that they knew what they were going to do. watch the tanks destroyed and the generals, the leaders. >> what are they doing on the front lines? >> a problem for the russian military is don't have a noncommissioned corps leading

the forces on the ground. the officers have to go out. they're the professional army. lots on contract. not well paid. soon if not now they will have more conscripts and they have to push them forward. he said they have a problem with deserters. >> looking at the range of things from the report that is the troops are getting frostbite, hungry and watching the generals dying on the front lines. watching the december mention of the forces, do they tell us about the next week or month might be going? >> look, chris. i've been listening to radio transmissions for 32 years and

never heard this before. logistic stuff on an alternative net. you don't talk in the clear. send food. what does that mean? 132 rations for 132 soldiers. sounds like amateur hour. they loths command and control at the theater level. but a battalion level not doing well either. the ukrainians are incredibly courageous. confronting p-80 tanks with an anti-log missile at 80 yards is really a difficult fight so the russians are stymied. putin doesn't have a clue what to do. i doubt the russian generals tell him the truth. the generals killed is short of a good mark on the army. a few dead generals is a good

indication of a fervor to win. what is encouraging is the total lack of professionalism to handle large formations. even in the south as clint pointed out we -- ukrainian nailed a ship and apparently burned to the water line. damaged two more. killed the a-10 marine brigade commander. these russian forces look really in bad shape. >> the bravery of the ukrainian forces drks determination. fighting for the homeland and families. on their ground in their neighborhoods, in their country. but how do they now knowing what we know and hearing what we heard took the ultimate advantage of where the russian forces are now and the fact that

they're retreating from places like kherson? >> they do pretty well without anybody's advice. at a strategic level down to the battlefield command and control of their forces of the ukrainians have been magnificent. it is armed civilians. feeding their logistic system to get supplies from poland and romania and get it out to the fighting units is simply marvelous. i hate to be overly optimistic. this russian army, putin's mind set can't retreat. i hope he ends up saying, i'll keep donbas, a land bridge, crimea. i'll tell everybody that's the victory. we need to help the ukrainians with game changing technology. the u.s. army's switchblade 600

anti-armor munition, anti-ship missiles, s-300 anti-aircraft missiles. m-1 tanks. can't tell you how much i worship the m-1 tank. >> what's -- not providing them so far, the stuff that you talk about. >> this is gone by phases. phase one he thought he could get in there with a gru and special ops and knock the ukrainian government out of office. that failed. then tank army into battle and stalled on the road. ukrainians beat them there. we went from the u.s. thinking to equip them to realizing to continue. they said they need i think essentially 1,000 or 2,000 missiles a day.

anti-tank munitions. washington, d.c. is a counsel of lawyers. justice, defense. president biden is going to have to break through that and say, this isn't going to be world war iii and not a nuclear war. we have to supply them with game changing technology. >> so lucky to have you both with us today. great to have you on set. thank you both very much the wife of the supreme court justice calling biden's 2020 victory quote the greatest heist in history. part of a trove of text messages. what the committee and the supreme court should do about it. that's next.

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on november 10, 2020, thomas wrote to meadows, in part, help this great president stand firm, mark. the majority knows biden and the left is attempting the greatest heist in our history. meadows responds, i will stand firm. we will fight until there is no fight left. our country is too precious to give up on. thanks for all you do. the 29 text messages between ginni thomas and meadows are now confirmed to be in the hands of the january 6th select committee. while the post reporting says mrs. thomas's texts don't directly reference justice thomas or the supreme court, it does raise new questions about her husband's role in future january 6th rulings following his decision in january as the lone justice to vote against the national archives handing over trump white house documents to the committee. i want to bring in harry litman, former deputy assistant attorney general and former u.s. attorney who also clerked for two supreme court justices.

so harry, these are pretty stunning revelations, the wife of a supreme court justice using her access to trump's inner circle to promote and maybe even try to guide trump's attempts to overturn the election. let me read another exchange. on november 24th. meadows wrote this to thomas, "this is a fight of good versus evil. evil always looks like the victor until the king of kings triumphs. do not grow weary in well doing. the fight continues. i have staked my career on it. well, at least my time in d.c. on it." and then thomas replies, "thank you. needed that. this plus a conversation with my best friend just now. i will try to keep holding on. america is worth it." now, woodward and costa who broke the story say it's unclear who she meant when she referenced her best friend, and mrs. thomas said to the "washington free beacon" this month, clarence doesn't discuss his work with me and i don't involve him in my work, but given the totality of what we've

seen, should he recuse himself? >> so, first, the content is gob smacking. it's not -- it's like the craziest, looniest ravings of a proud boy. she calls it an obvious fraud. she's obviously intensely partisan and deluded. now, should he recuse himself? first, let me tell you the law. there isn't any law. it will be up to him, and he probably will hold firm. but this is really, i think, as one professor called it, a game changer for a couple reasons. the first is, her email here to meadows, who's the quarterback, by the way, it's just by chance that these 29 were turned over. it's not even all of meadows's emails but we know from them she's communicating with jared kushner and louis gohmert, people on the legislative side. she's involved up to her neck in the, you know, january 6th big

lie sort of movement. and by the way, best friend, there are reports that that is how she generally refers to clarence thomas. second, so, first, that gives, you know, the standard is, but it's for thomas to apply, could a reasonable person question his impartiality? you know, it's very hard to ask, i think, the american public to be totally confident that he is calling it straight and true when his spouse and best friend has these beliefs. but second, and more concretely, he may not sit where there's some substantial interest on her part, and the revelation of these emails and the very strong possibility there's more to come, it seems to me, at least in any kind of case that touches on more than the actual rioting level. she attended the actual riot, but she says she decried the violence. but anything involving the white house, the congress, et cetera, which is most everything these days, i think could touch on her

and that would be a reason for him to recuse. all that said, it will be up to him, and what this really is, it's a screaming reason that they need to change that rule and not let supreme court justices decide for themselves, because at the end of the day, it's the american public that's going to be left with reduced confidence in a really, really important matter. >> we're almost out of time, literally, but i have to ask you, is there anything that the commission could likely do with this information, or any potential future legal action? >> yes. first, run it to ground, find out how much more there is, and then there's a possibility she's involved in some of the conduct that they at least have to reveal if not refer for criminal action. >> harry litman, always great to talk to you. thank you so much. that's going to do it for me. the next hour of "deadline white house" with alicia menendez starts right after this. use" wi starts right after this. i recommend nature made vitamins, because i trust their quality. they were the first to be verified by usp, an independent organization that sets strict quality and purity standards.

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ukrainian people have a lot of backbone, they have a lot of guts, and i'm sure you're observing it. what you're engaged in is much more than just whether or not you can alleviate the pain and suffering of the people of ukraine. we're in a new phase. your generation, we're at an inflection point. >> hi, everyone, i'm alicia menendez in again for nicole wallace. the sun might have set on poland and on the second leg of president biden's emergency trip to europe, and still, there are developments to track this hour, including what the white house is calling a major address

tomorrow on the stakes of the moment. biden will make that speech after meeting with ukrainians forced from their homes, now in poland. in the next hour, we have got reporters there and in ukraine, ready to provide the latest on what's become europe's worst refugee crisis since the second world war. earlier today, as you saw, president biden, just an hour's drive from an active war zone, met with american troops, members of the army's 82nd airborne charged with strengthening nato's eastern flank. he did so as the kremlin today signalled perhaps a new chapter in this deadly conflict. a russian military leader now suggesting the first stage of the operation has been, quote, mainly accomplished. their focus now, as they phrase it, liberating cities in the east, particularly in the donbas region. some communities there have almost been wiped off the map, reduced to rubble, and just a few hours ago, a u.s. defense official revealed they are seeing indications russia is now bringing reinforcements from

nearby georgia. our colleague, richard engel, filed this report from ukraine, including what he identified as the single worst atrocity since the war began. >> reporter: in kharkiv to the east, russia bombed more apartment buildings. as in the city, relatives held a funeral for boris, a 96-year-old ukrainian jew. he survived nazi concentration camps only to be killed by a russian bomb that hit his home. his son said his memory would not be forgotten, even though many of the family's papers and photographs were destroyed. across kharkiv, the war is starting to drag on. many have been living down in the subway stations for a month now. but it's russia's justification for the war that bothers natalia. she says she has friends in russia who believe the russian propaganda, that russia is fighting to topple ukraine's supposed fascist no-nazi

government. they don't believe me. they say it's your fault, you're to blame. it's you, you, you. russian state tv describe russian troops as liberators in ukraine. these are the first images from inside a theater in mariupol russia attacked nine days ago where hundreds of ukrainian civilians were sheltering. covered in dust, they seem dazed. many are women, children, and the elderly. a narrator on the video says the missile hit the center of the theater, and people are evacuating the site. mariupol city officials citing witnesses claimed 300 people were killed in the attack. nbc news cannot verify that claim. the theater is in the center of mariupol, and it had been clearly marked with signs, in russian, saying "children" to indicate children were inside. russia denied it carried out the attack. ukraine is holding back the russian assault for now, but it faces an army eight times its

size. >> joining us now, nbc news correspondents dashas burns live from poland and cal perry is live in lviv, ukraine. cal, you're there in lviv on the opposite side of the country in kherson today. a pentagon official revealed that russia has lost full control of that city. ukrainians have been fighting back against what we all understand is a far superior, far larger force. you have been in that country for a month now, cal. can you give us a sense of morale among the ukrainians you're speaking with in? >> reporter: well, look, i think ukrainians on the ground would take issue partly with the question. i think they would say they are fighting a larger force, but is it a superior force? in the past 48 hours, it seems like a to two-front war has developed. gains made by ukrainian soldiers on the ground, particularly in kyiv. in the western part of the city, they have pushed back the russian lines, in some places broken through those lines. the city of kherson, that was

the only city to be occupied by russian forces. they are now being rolled back there. and in the past hour, we had an address from president zelenskyy, his nightly address just dropped. he said there are 16,000 dead -- that is without question probably a high estimate. nato puts it between 7,000 to 14,000, but those are incredibly heavy losses. the other front of this war, if you talk to ukrainians, will be told that it is what's happening in mariupol. it is what's happening in these cities where you have civilian populations being punished, where civilians are living in basements, unable to get aboveground, where we have seen unrelenting shelling. the view from the ground is we have the gains being made by the ukrainian army and you have this brutality being carried out by russian forces in many places, people suspect, in response to those gains. >> in the midst of all that, word that ukraine and russia have conducted a prisoner swap. what can you tell us about that? >> reporter: look, this really may open another phase now in this war. we had a swap where ten

ukrainian soldiers, sailors, excuse me, were swapped. this is the first live transfer we've seen of prisoners of war and if you look at the numbers of killed and captured russian soldiers, depending on the sourcing, it's in the tens of thousands. now, the icrc, the international committee for the red cross, has been charged with this when it comes to war in the geneva conventions. it says the icrc will oversee pows, civilians and the like and we've had the icrc making the rounds. they were in ukraine, and then in russia with lavrov to start talking about how this is going to work in the future. but as we move forward in this conflict, the more folks that are abducted by russian soldiers along the black coast, for example, the more soldiers that are captured by ukrainian army, these are basically going to be part of future negotiations. it will be part of ceasefire negotiations, but it will also be part of what we will see in the future, which is large number prisoner swaps, alicia. >> dasha, the world has been just absolutely absorbed by the fate of these ukrainian

refugees, just today, a widely circulated photo shows a child holding a loaf of bread among long humanitarian corridors from mariupol. you have been there with some of these refugees. can you tell us what they're saying, how they're doing? >> reporter: you know, alicia, when you visit any of the many, many places where folks are taking refuge here in poland, you witness the power of resilience and generosity. the resilience of those taking refuge and the generosity of those providing this safe haven. just earlier today, we were at a refugees center that just a few weeks ago was a shopping mall, but the businesses there cleared out and made space for what is now cots, donated food, donated clothing, and space with a lot of heartbreaking stories, and today, we met a mother who touched all of our hearts. her name is leah.

she escaped from the a donetsk region with her 10-month-old baby. she's also six months pregnant and told us about that harrowing journey as she was hearing russian artillery on the bus, trying to get out of the country, leaving her home behind, leaving her husband behind, and i want to play you a moment from our conversation, and i want you to just sit with her for a minute and listen and feel the pain that she's experiencing right now. you have one little girl. you're going to have a second one. >> translator: yeah, it will be a boy. i just want to go home.

>> reporter: it's okay. what do you want for her future? >> translator: i just want her to not see all of this. so that in her future, she never has to run. >> reporter: and as heartbreaking as it is to watch that, it's even more heartbreaking to know that lera is not alone. there are so many more stories like hers. unicef told me that 7,500 chirp have actually been born into

this war, alicia, and in june, lera will bring another child into this war, and imagine being that father, the husband who is still in ukraine, far away from his 10-month-old child, from his pregnant wife, so when you hear these numbers, think of lera. think of that conversation. think of these people, alicia. >> dasha burns, always grateful to you for putting a human face on this epic tragedy. cal perry, thank you so much. both of you stay safe. joining our coverage, chief correspondent for "pbs newshour" and an msnbc contributor. also with us, former spokesperson for the u.s. mission to the united nations and msnbc political analyst, rick stengel, former undersecretary of state for public diplomacy. i don't know if you got to hear the sound from dasha's reporting, but i'm thinking about the fact that president biden, who many people think of as a comforter in chief, also a storied statesman, is going to be meeting with refugees like

this. when you consider the full context of who this president is, do you expect those meetings -- do you expect him hearing directly from these refugees to really change the trajectory of where this is all headed? >> i would hope he does have the opportunity to meet refugees and as you said, alicia, he's good at empathizing with people, but the scale of what he has to empathize with here is just extraordinary. i mean, it's the largest displacement of refugees since world war ii. we're not even talking about the internal displacement of people within ukraine, but poland is, through an act of incredible generosity, is hosting as many as 2 million refugees. poland, by the way, which was victimized by russia at the beginning of world war ii in 1939, is very, very aware of russian aggression, and i do, as you mentioned, i hope president biden has a chance to meet

refugees. it will send a powerful signal and symbol to the rest of the world and to putin in particular that america is a generous country, and america is obviously siding against this horrible russian aggression. >> rick, we also mentioned this new stage of the war, russia perhaps in the process of reducing its war aim, some further detail from the "new york times," with ukraine putting up fierce resistance and russia having failed to seize key cities in the early days of the war, friday's statement from a senior general amounted to the most direct acknowledgement yet that russia would not be able to take control of all or most of ukraine. the plan now, the general said, was to focus on taking the eastern region known as the donbas where russia has recognized the independence of two russia-backed separatist republics. rick, your reaction to that. should we believe that russia seems content to focus on eastern ukraine? >> well, in all the grimness, i would say that this is good news. it is the russian military

establishment saying it. it's an acknowledgement, a tacit acknowledgement, that putin has bitten off more than he can chew, that this invasion of this entire country, the largest country in europe, was just way too much. the other part of it, which i think is good news, is not something that people like to talk about, but it begins to create the format, the architecture of a potential agreement between zelenskyy and putin. obviously, putin would like to have the donbas region be semi-independent. he constantly refers to the minsk agreement from 2015, which does grant a certain amount of independence to that region, so i think that could create the template for peace talks, at least i hope that's what happens. >> we mentioned the president will wrap up his emergency trip to europe tomorrow. world leaders made some pretty big strides while he was there in terms of sanctions, contingency plans, but what now? when the president touches back down in washington, are we back to wait and see as it relates to

the invasion, or is there a plan to move forward? >> alicia, i think one of the biggest concerns for a lot of the national security officials and european officials i talk to is just what will putin do next and the guiding principle for most people has been, don't follow what russia says. follow what they do. so, as of right now, we have seen four weeks, consistent weeks, week-by-week of consistent escalation, and very little restraint from the russian forces side in terms of bombing civilian areas, areas where children are clearly marked to have been, areas where people are trying to flee via humanitarian corridors and hospitals and so on, and so the concerns remain about possible chemical warfare or biological or radiological weapons and so on. also the threat of cyber attacks, which we don't talk about that much either. so the guiding principle of the u.s. has been to follow that and they are working in concert with their nato partners, with g7 and eu members as well.

and that will continue to be the guiding principle. i do think we have seen a surprise among some people. i recall early in the invasion, talking to some european officials who we would ask about this seemed to be a stalled advance on the russian side, and they would say, do not underestimate the power of the russian war machine. and in recent days, they have said, you know, perhaps putin himself overestimated the power of his own war machine. but just because it's not going as well as putin expected that it might, does not mean that it is over, by a long stretch. and the devastation, the destruction, the displacement we have all been talking about that has been wrought on ukraine, that doesn't go away in an instant either, and a shadow of that will stay over the area for a while. >> and then harry, you layer on top of that the economic pressure on russia, this from the "new york times." the united states announced a deal with european leaders on friday to increase shipments of natural gas to help wean europe off russian energy. president biden seeking to encourage similar moves by other

european countries, in part by offering up the united states as an energy supplier. the deal he announced in brussels earlier on friday lacked many details, but contained some big goals. the united states would send an additional 15 billion cubic meters of liquefied natural gas to europe this year, roughly 10% to 12% of current u.s. exports to all countries. by 2030, the president said, the united states would aim to increase supplies by as much as 50 billion cubic meters a year. so a big move, unclear exactly how it will happen. one, is this what wartime diplomacy looks like? agree now, figure out the details later? and then, also, in the broader scheme of economic pressure, which i know is what you have been so focused on, how does this piece play out? >> i'm sorry, that question cut out. i didn't hear you. >> i have two questions. it was sort of a -- we're going to agree on this and then we're going to figure out the details later. is that just what diplomacy

looks like in critical moments like this? and second, because you're so focused on the economic piece of this on sanctions, i wonder how you see this factoring into that conversation. >> right. okay. sorry about that. i had lost you there for a second. so, this shows the u.s. means business when it comes to targeting russia's largest sector, which is its oil and gas sector, which makes up 30% of its economy, and obviously, they benefit enormously from those funds that finance its war machine and at the end of the day, that's the point of the sanctions. it's to financially cripple all of the kremlin's networks and financial avenues and they're going at this from every arm so that it undermines their ability to fuel their war machine, so when it comes to this, the u.s. is not messing around when it comes to working with europe to help get them off russian oil. and this is a big step for the united states. this is a huge commitment that they're going to have to try and fulfill as well, by the way. so, you have that piece of it, but one of the things that is

very important in this entire effort that you can see from the administration is this effort to remain united all along the way, and by doing that, it sends this message to the russian government that there is no daylight. we are in it to win it. we are not messing around. and that's going to be very important when you're talking about, as rick mentioned, helping frame the negotiations between ukraine and russia to bring an end to this and also to communicate not to even go near a chemical weapons attack. >> rick, let's talk a little bit more about the economic pressure piece, the isolation piece. you have vladimir putin today accusing the west of trying to, quote, cancel russia as more companies like spotify just today decide to abandon the country. i wonder, because you know so much about this particular issue, is putin's messaging that the cancel culture stuff effective? are people going to buy that argument in a month? in a year? >> i don't think so, alicia. i mean, he has grievances as

long as my arm. he's weaponized his grievances, which is, in fact, what the invasion of ukraine was all about. you know, the russian -- i date myself, but i go back to george kennan's famous long telegram about russia when he was ambassador to russia in the 1940s was that russians have felt aggrieved and isolated from europe for centuries. there's very little that can remedy their insecurity. in fact, putin's speech the other night, he quoted a poem by a 19th century russian poet saying that russia had been excluded from the european enlightenment, so he -- he's very, very wounded. unfortunately, i don't think the world -- or fortunately, rather, i don't think the world is going to buy into that. >> amna, that speech that we're expecting from the president, what are you hearing about what the white house is hoping to accomplish with that speech? >> there's a couple of things there. and both of them have been

referenced to some degree in this conversation already. one is just to put him there, right? a big part of this trip is about the symbolism, the physical manifestation not just of all the russian allies, transatlantic alliance, all these member nations coming together but also president biden being there himself, being the leader of this, being the man who has been able to lead and bring everyone together and then of course as you mentioned earlier, too, meeting with some of those refugee populations. as you know, his team is trying to make happen before he leaves. that is a strength of this president. of being able to hit home in his messaging why something matters. so, he'll be referencing that tomorrow, but we also expect him to be speaking to some very big themes that he's mentioned before, which is, again, what is at stake here on the ground in ukraine. he has framed it before as the defense of democracy. this is about pushing back rising autocracies and reminding the world that it is democracies that are the best government, that will lead the way moving

forward. we expect to hear all of these themes moving forward. but again, when he returns, to return to your earlier question, this is a president who will face pressure back here as well to keep that alliance together from afar as long as this does go on and then to be in a position to respond to whatever it is that putin does next, because at this point, again, we don't know what that will be. >> i want you to talk about that pressure to keep the alliance together from afar. i also want to layer on to that, in recent days, we have been seeing these reports about mass kidnappings, forced deportations, ukrainians brought into russian territory. those claims are largely, of course, impossible to fully verify. but is that something the united nations will take into account as they are evaluating whether or not putin is committing war crimes? >> i have to -- i don't mean to smirk, but i have no hope, unfortunately, with the united nations and any effort that we would see from them in coming with anything, and that's --

some of it is their fault but some of it isn't because russia is on the security council, they're a permanent member and they'll veto anything that comes their way but when you're talking about building the case for something that could go to the international criminal court, that -- all of that effort to build accountability, to document the evidence of war crimes, of which there are many, and of which many people are trying to do that on the ground, i mean, from every angle, documenting that is very important. one of the things we used to say was that all these criminals and thugs eventually face their day in court. and they do. you saw it with molosovic, bashear of sudan. usually, what has to happen is that the government itself in russia has to change for that to happen. so eventually, it will, hopefully. and putin will face his day in court. him and his cronies. and therefore, documenting all those evidences of war crimes is super important. i think one of the things that's really remarkable with the biden administration, by the way, this

is not just here, but this week, secretary of state blinken also declared genocide committed by the myanmar military. using these words like genocide and war crimes when they happen, when we see it is to important, and i'm so glad this is how we're going to do things from now on because one hand, we call it like we see it. and on the other, it allows us to put these -- to make these thugs face accountability one day. >> amna, hagar, rick, thank you. when we return, urgent calls from the biden administration to do more to help refugees from ukraine. we're going to talk to a democratic member of congress who is leading the effort to allow more ukrainians who have been displaced by this war to seek refuge here. plus, what will the january 6th committee do with those text messages from ginni thomas, the wife of supreme court justice clarence thomas, urging donald trump's chief of staff to overturn the 2020 election? today we learned even more about the extent ginni thomas wanted

republicans to go to keep trump in office. and democrats are pushing back after a week that saw republican senators playing to the very worst aspects of their far-right base during the supreme court confirmation hearings for nominee ketanji brown jackson. what the gop's antics tell us about what to expect in this fall's midterms. "deadline white house" continues after a quick break. "deadline white house" continues after a quick break. king the choices they make like the splash they create the entrance they make, the surprises they initiate. otezla. it's a choice you can make. otezla is not a cream. it's a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently. with otezla, 75% clearer skin is achievable. don't use if you're allergic to otezla. it may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. otezla is associated with an increased risk of depression. tell your doctor if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts or if these feelings develop. some people taking otezla reported weight loss. your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. upper respiratory tract infection and headache may occur.

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you that are sitting at this table. and so you know, i'm here in poland to see firsthand the humanitarian crisis. whether it's food or a blanket or cash or a care for medical teams that we send in or child welfare specialists, they need it now. they need it as rapidly as they can get it. >> president biden today speaking after a briefing on the humanitarian response to the refugees crisis in ukraine. this visit on the heels of the announcement by the white house that the u.s. would take in 100,000 ukrainian refugees and provide $1 billion in humanitarian assistance to countries affected by russia's invasion of ukraine. joining us now, congressman david cicciline of ohio. congressman, thank you for being with us. the administration has extended temporary protected status, tps, to ukrainians who are currently in the united states and has said that the u.s. is going to

accept 100,000 ukrainians. you were urging the administration to do more. can you give us a sense of what that would look like? >> yes. thanks for having me. first of all, thanks to the president's leadership. he not only granted temporary protective status to about 100,000 ukrainians that are in the u.s., which is terrific. he indicated his intention to raise the refugees cap, which is one of the things that we were urging him to do, to be sure we can accommodate more refugees right here in the united states. we've also asked him to expedite the process to remove the delays that currently exist, particularly to give priority to ukrainians who have family here in the united states under this family reunification model, so i really want to applaud the president for the work that he's done to be sure that america can continue our long tradition of welcoming refugees who are fleeing war and violence and offer them safe haven. we are continuing to provide substantial humanitarian assistance on the ground, but we also need to do our part in terms of welcoming refugees here

to america. >> congressman, the u.n. says that the treatment of ukrainian refugees should set the example. according to "the washington post," the treatment stands in stark contrast to europe's past resistance to taking in asylum seekers from muslim majority countries and africa, leading some to accuse european leaders of racism and islamaphobia. those charges have been fueled by accounts of third country nonwhite nationals who tried to leave ukraine being pushed to the back of the line at border checkpoints. some european officials have made frank admissions that they are giving preferential treatment to refugees with whom they share a cultural affinity. i think, congressman, that critique can extend well past europe to the united states, how we treat central americans, haitians, others seeking refuge in this country. your thoughts? >> look, it's very, very important that we have a refugee policy that we support refugee efforts that continue to describe our program as the crown jewel of our humanitarian work around the world. but in order for that to really

be true, refugees must be accepted regardless of their national origin, their ethnic background or their religious affiliation. it's one of the issues i raised when we were at the polish-ukraine border and it was very clear the polish government early on in this process made it very clear by an explicit directive that the ethnic origin or racial background of a refugee should have no relevance, that everyone was welcome, and they did that explicitly in a written policy. and we heard no reports of anything to the contrary while we were there. but this is very important. look, there's a lot to be proud of in terms of the way that the poles and the romanians and hungarians are welcoming refugees into their countries and the incredible effort that's under way to provide food and shelter and clothing, but we have to be sure that it's done to every single person who's fleeing violence, regardless of their religious affiliation, their background or the color of their skin, absolutely. >> congressman, i want to shift gears a little and get you in on one of the other big stories from the past few days. as a former impeachment manager,

i want you to talk to us about the recent revelations regarding ginni thomas's efforts to overturn the 2020 election. what do they tell you? any this is very disturbing. this is the wife of supreme court justice who is advocating, you know, qanon theories about water marks on ballots and about stolen elections to the chief of staff of the president of the united states, and coincidentally or maybe not so coincidentally, that is the same justice of the court, the only justice who dissented in the decision that compelled the former president to turn over documents to the january 6th commission. so, this is very, very disturbing. you know, the court -- the integrity of the court, the ability to have the confidence of the american people, its impartiality and its, you know, being free from conflicts of interest, this shows unequivocally that the very highest levels of the trump administration were very much involved in a coordinated,

planned effort to overturn the results of the election, to undermine our democracy, to really engage in a coup, and the fact that a spouse of a supreme court justice was part of that qanon effort is really disturbing. i think the justice has to -- justice thomas has to recuse himself from anything related to the trump administration, anything related to the january 6th commission or anything related to our effort to hold individuals accountable for their participation in this attack on our democracy at a bare minimum. >> i was about to say, you are looking forward. it seems likely that justice thomas has violated federal law twice, is poised to violate it a third time. should he be impeached? >> well, i think, you know, he has a lot of questions to answer. i think justice thomas has to come clean and tell us exactly the conversations he had with his wife about these events, whether it impacted the decisions that he has made or the thinking, does he too agree with this qanon crazy conspiracy

that have been put forth to justify this violent attack on our democracy? but i think there's a lot of questions that we have. we need to have much more oversight of the court, and we need to have the supreme court be required to follow rules of, you know, ethical standards that other judges are required to follow. we have bills that will require that. we need to move them quickly. this is a very, very disturbing development, and i think we have a lot more to learn about the role that ginni thomas played and the role that justice thomas has played in the decisions that he rendered relative to the trump administration and this very serious attack on our democracy. >> congressman david cicilline, thank you so much. when we return, much more on those text messages from virginia thomas urging mark meadows to overturn joe biden's victory in the 2020 election, including some new reporting, brand-new reporting from nbc news, about how far she wanted republicans to go to overturn the election. wanted republicans to go to overturn the election

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i think justice thomas could make his decisions like he's made them every other time. it's his decision based upon law. if you spent any time studying the supreme court justice, he's one who studies correctly. >> house gop leader kevin mccarthy today defending supreme court justice clarence thomas as calls grow from democrats against his participation in future january 6th cases. it's in response to texts

obtained by the january 6th select committee, which nbc news has confirmed in which justice thomas's wife, ginni, encourages and guides then trump chief of staff mark meadows in overturning the 2020 election. on november 24, for example, according to "the washington post's" bob woodward and robert costa, meadows texted thomas, this is a fight of good versus evil. evil always looks like the victor until the king of kings triumphs. do not grow weary in well done doing. the fight continues. i have staked my career on it, well, at least my time in d.c. on it. thomas replied, thank you, needed that. this plus a conversation with my best friend just now. i will try to keep holding on. america is worth it. "the post" reports it is unclear who mrs. thomas means by her, quote, best friend, and that the texts don't directly reference justice thomas. but the stunning reporting is, again, drawing attention back to her husband's decision earlier this year to part from the other

justices voting against the committee's access to trump white house documents. and just moments ago, nbc news learned from a congressional source familiar with the exchange that mrs. thomas also pressured gop lawmakers to protest the election results. emailing an aide to congressman jim banks, incoming chairman of the republican study committee, the largest caucus of conservatives on capitol hill. thomas saying she would not help his group until his members go, quote, out in the streets and join the fight. joining us now, danielle holly walker, the dean and professor at howard university school of law and the reverend al sharpton, host of msnbc's "politics nation" and president of the national action network. dean, that wasn't a surprising answer from mccarthy, supporting justice thomas's participation in future january 6th decisions, but democratic senator ron wyden said today the new reporting makes justice thomas's conduct on the supreme court look increasingly corrupt.

senator tim cain invoked his lone dissenter position. now the news that she pressured gop lawmakers. how can he continue to rule on those cases? >> well, we know that supreme court justices have the responsibility to recuse themselves from cases, and so it is up to justice thomas to do that. but i think what we're seeing is growing pressure and also obviously publicity around these text messages and around his wife's involvement in the january 6th insurrection. so, i think these calls for him to recuse himself will get nothing but louder, and also considering his lone dissent in the previous case related to the trump documents, i think what we will see is the pressure will be nothing but increasing around these issues, and it really puts a highlight on the confidence that everyday americans have in the supreme court, which is something that we've been talking about a lot this week,

and it's incredibly important that everyday americans feel that the supreme court is at least impartial in incredibly important cases like the ones that we'll see coming up around the 2020 election. >> rev, to that point, i want to read another text. on november 10, according to the "post," mrs. thomas wrote to meadows, house and senate guys are pathetic too. only four gop house members seen out in streets, rallies with grassroots, gohmert, jordan, gosar and white. this is the wife of a supreme court justice expressing frustration with congressional republicans not doing enough to support trump, echoing the big lie language. what does that say about the need for a clear code of conduct for every member of the judiciary, including the supreme court? we just had senator hirono expressing that earlier today on msnbc. is that the answer? >> i think that is certainly part of the answer. there must be a clear code. and i think included in that

clear code is that you should not have the appearances of something that is less than appropriate. if the judge, in this case justice clarence thomas, respected the court and the faith and trust of the public in the court, he would recuse himself because of the appearances of a conflict here. particularly since he made that vote and he was the sole vote. i also think that the january 6th committee could entertain whether or not they want to interview ms. thomas, what she knew about january 6th since she was present, since she left before the insurrection started. and interrogating her, ask her, who is her best friend? so, i mean, i think there's all kinds of possibilities here. it is not out of bounds for someone who said they were there january 6th to be interviewed on what they heard before they

left. did they overhear any plans? and by the way, we have your text messages here. who is your best friend, and ask her a legitimate line of questioning since meadows has already been called before this committee and they have several text messages between her and meadows. there's all kinds of reasons why they can question her about meadows, about january 6th, and about who is her best friend that she refers to in her text messages to mr. meadows. >> right. indeed, i want to be clear, the january 6th committee hasn't spoken with or engaged with thomas. woodward and costa report it is unknown whether ginni thomas and meadows exchanged additional messages between the election and biden's inauguration beyond the 29 received by the committee. committee members and aides said they believe the messages may be just a portion of the pair's total exchanges. i mean, it's hard to imagine that they are not going to want to hear from her.

>> yeah, it's really hard to imagine that they're not going to want to hear from her, and we also know that these text messages are not just between ginni thomas and mark meadows, that there are also text messages with other top officials as the reporting has been showing. so, i think all of those questions will be on the table, and also, i think this real issue that is about separation of powers and the notion that we have the wife of a supreme court justice who is trying to influence the election, and it really does bring to light the very serious and disturbing concerns about influence inside the supreme court and the way that the supreme court will deal with these issues that have an impact on the health of our democracy for the future. >> dean holley-walker, rev al, you are both staying with us. when we return, republicans taking performance art and

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today, after a historic week on capitol hill, democratic senator joe manchin, who hasn't always backed the biden agenda, says he intends to support judge ketanji brown jackson's nomination to the supreme court. so, it seems all be certain she will be confirmed, even a few if

any republicans support her. but it's hard not to think their politically minded questioning this week gives us an obvious glimpse into what their midterm strategy will be. this from the "new york times" to be. some conservatives tried to put pressure on manchin the democrats appeared others debunked the septembering claims as distorted. mr. manchin seemed to dismiss them as well. we're back with danielle holy-walker and reverend sharpton. let's talk about the issues and stair rho types they repeatedly tried to tap into here, portraying democrats, judge jackson as being soft on crime, and racist baby books, invoking previous supreme court hearings. any question what the midterm

fight is going to look lie after what we watched this week? >> very clear they are going to use all kinds of dog whistles and probably just straight-out racially charged whist also. when you try to ask a supreme court nominee about critical race theory, and when -- you think this woman was one that was in some kind of way an accomplice to criminals getting out of the jail. this is midterm elections, that they're criminals, that we have to deal with critical race theory. they're doing it all over the country. i most say though, alicia, that

one of these -- comes out in me when i hear that republicans may not vote at all for her and there will be a 50-50 tie, with manchin saying he would vote, it would seem that providential that breaking the tie would be for the vice president voting. >> an image to behold. we heard from senate majority leader mitch mcconnell saying he cannot and will not support judge jackson, trying to connect her to far-left groups, far-left andendas yesterday get the alabama attorney general to testify against her, saying she would use her position to make fundamental redesign in our criminal justice system. your thoughts?

>> i think it couldn't be farther from the truth anyone who watched the hearings this week, saw that judge jackson is a brilliant judge, someone who is extremely well qualified for this position. she explained in very reasonable terms, even when she was asked many questions that had absolutely nothing to do with her current role as a judge or what she will do as a supreme court justice when she's confirmed about things like being soft on crime or critical race theory. some of the senators, like ted cruz, didn't even attempt to draw a connection between critical race theory and her work as a judge, or her future work as a supreme court justice. so i think even though many of these criticisms are not tethered to reality at all, the truth is they are a proving ground for what messages will work in the midterm elections, and we are seeing potential presidential primary contenders test out lots of messages for

2024. but judge jackson has performed in a way that i think deserve bipartisan support. she got three votes previously in her previous confirmation. she could get even more this time, but unfortunately she's not likely to. probably just a few republican votes, if that many. >> they didn't even do the theater of trying to connect the dots with their grievances and her record. they were just trying to get clips they can run and play for their base. the problem is not just what that means for judge jackson. it's not just what it reveals about the republican party. it's what it means institutional. i want to play this about the importance of a bipartisan vote. >> as much as i would like to have bipartisan support for someone as well qualified and respected, with a broad support

from the political spectrum, it would be good for that support, but the republicans basically, for political reasons, they're going to move forward, she could make a huge difference to millions in our country. >> there's questions about faith and institutions, meaning faith in the supreme court. there's also questions about faith in congress, faith in the senate. what does that tell us about the status of the state of the senate that this is even a question? >> i think it tells us many people are losing faith that this country has the u.s. senate, that everything comes down to party lines and race tinge the at that.

they weren't talking to her or us, they were talking to their base. they have no care at all about trying to be logical or protect something that we should be looking up to, and that is a seat on the supreme court. if they were taking the separation of powers seriously and respecting the power of the supreme court would be going through this performing behavior by questioning things that have absolutely nothing to do with her ability to be a justice, and has no connection with her background at all? this is all petty politics, and they don't take the supreme court or their own senate seats seriously. we wonder why people are losing

trust, because those governing have broken the trust of the american people. >> reverend, you will see you r5k p.m. team as i do every saturday and sunday. we'll be back after a quick break. sunday. we'll be back after a quick break. for strength and energy. woo hoo! ensure, complete balanced nutrition with 27 vitamins and minerals. and ensure complete with 30 grams of protein. ♪ ♪ thinkorswim® equips you with customizable tools,

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that does it for "deadline: white house" on in friday. you can catch me every weekend. dry your tears, nicolle will be back on monday. "the beat with ari melber" starts right now. >> have a good good weekend. welcome to "the beat." we have this new outrage over the breaking story, justice clarence thomas and his wife in a scandal, a new one, together, all with her secret push to overturn the election, the very issues her husband would later rule on. we have a breakdown that i don't