do in the united states, and in a broad way we understand the threat to democracy. they understand it in a way that is far more accessible and real because they know the history of what has happened in europe before. they know the proximity and you hear from officials here in poland and from the everyday person in poland, a genuine concern that their homeland could also be at risk because of what vladimir putin has done in ukraine. that is not some big thought for them. it is a practical, daily concern and so the solidarity they're showing for ukraine is for ukraine's benefit and their own and president biden is talking about that and extrapolating that farther into europe and trying to harness the stability that peaceful nations provide each other and to try and keep that unity which is why he emphasizes it again and again. it doesn't mean each country has to agree on every piece of this,

for example, they've had differing views on thou deal with the energy issue because russia has provided so much energy to continental europe. they, of course, need that to function. so different approaches on thou sanction energy, but on the big, sweeping issues of penalizing russia and being united against this war, that's the kind of unity he's trying to demonstrate as well as humanitarian assistance to ukraine. so you'll hear the president echo those themes, repeat them and work to keep them stitched together this solidarity that is certainly thriving at the moment, the sort of collaboration that we've seen with the g7 partners and the nato countries and bilateral relationship, the u.s. and poland on display here. these are important moments where leaders can have conversations and contact together. president to president and then at the ministerial level where

we have our secretary of state ask our defense secretary and their counterparts and as the president said, needing to have flexibility to respond to each of the things that vladimir putin may do in the days and weeks to come, to have the flexibility to be on the phone with each other, talking about what to do and quick to respond. so this is a very fluid situation with enormous consequences, life and death, to be sure, but also big issues about nations that go beyond ukraine. obviously everyone's concern is about the people who are at risk and dying in ukraine, the civilization and history and culture that is being destroyed there and also the larger implications. so these sort of meetings when we have these photo opportunity moments and those are a part of the rituals of governing, but they also at their underpinnings have very significant chances

for leaders to connect and to make decisions that can be very persuasive and influential on the events themselves. ali? >> kelly, stay with me. we're watching live pictures right now from the presidential palace in warsaw. it's right next door to where we are. president biden is in conversation with the president of poland and kelly, a point you made earlier which is interesting because president biden said we're doing this for our freedom and for yours and he made a commitment that article 5, the mutual defense treat ney nato is sacred, but politically, it's a very warm meeting, but politically biden and duda are not in the same place and in fact, there have been lots of reasons for these two countries to disagree over the last few years because of the political direction in which poland is going and that's been put aside against the expansion of soviet

union, or the expansion of russia to feel like what the soviet union used to be. >> yes. biden and duda have not been natural political partners and natural allies. president trump had more affinity for duda in style and temperament in some of his ideas. war changes things quickly and vladimir putin has done something that he did not intend and that is to fortify the alliances among free nations in ways that he certainly did not plan to, and that has brought together nato. vladimir putin very much against nato has wanted to see nato weakened and in fact, it has been strengthened by this as has the relationships in the g7, some of which have been changing where you have a new chancellor in germany and emanuel macron of france being the bigger leader of france now that angela merkel is no longer on the world stage

that is sort of the de facto leader of europe. so there have been changes in the sort of international order of who is the leading influencer among nations and president duda and president biden view things differently on certainly some of the ideological and political views. when it comes to sovereignty and security here they're aligned and certainly on the issue of trying to protect ukraine, there's a lot where they can work together and with that, they can forge some stronger ties and have some common goals and that is a good thing for the two countries at this time and they can at least for now set aside some of the other issues that are not as dominant. also for president duda, he did talk about the economic interactions between poland and the united states. although war is prominent, there are other issues of the ongoing

needs between countries that always come up in these kinds of sessions because time between two presidents is always precious. it doesn't happen every day and there will be conversations about how the two countries can interact on other issues, too, but interesting how the force of these events has brought forward new relationships, changed a little of the dynamic about the major players on the world stage and even in some ways how we're all getting to know some of the prominent voices within the ukrainian government who have not only president zelenskyy, but their foreign minister he can communicate effectively and we're seeing other leaders who are taking big roles, have a lot to say and a lot of influence shaping these negotiations as long as this conflict lasts.

ali? >> kelly, our schedules don't allow us to talk as much as we used to, but i now know my viewers understand why i would never do this with anybody, but you. your depth of experience in covering these things provides some important context so i appreciate that. you and i will talk again through the course of the next couple of hours. kelly o'donnell is here in warsaw, poland. you are watching a special edition of "velshi." it is just after 2:00 p.m. in poland and 9:00 a.m. in the united states. joining me is the president of the german marshall fund and former assistant secretary of state for europe and eurasian affairs where she co-led the interagency to enlarge nato. it is good to see you. thank you for being with us. you've been tracking this closely for the last few days and when i say this, the meeting that is going on or it has just concluded between president duda and president biden and the nato meeting on thursday and all of the meetings in between.

this is very old-fashioned diplomacy, flying around, talking to people and having individual conversations. what does it all lead to? >> it leads exactly to what the president said, ali, which is our unity and our allied unity is our center of gravity and so what you've seen play out over the last several days and the three summits in brussels and now the president's visit to poland continues to stress that unity, but i would underscore that the unity must have a vision of where we take it and where they want to take with it and we strengthened our humanitarian support and military support to ukraine. we strengthened nato for sure and the president's visit to the 82nd airborne yesterday was an important symbol of that and being on the front lines of freedom, but i think today brings and we have to pay close

attention to president biden's speech this afternoon in warsaw because now that we are at this point dfrding, helping nato defend itself, what do we do about wing the war, wing the international system after this war and you just feel like there is this missing piece of ambition and vision and unfortunately -- that is the u.s. role. the u.s. needs to push and fight for that vision and bring its allies with it. so i'm hoping we hear that vision articulated this afternoon by president biden. i think it's going to be an important speech. >> we're going to be covering that on msnbc. >> he said whatever we do, he made a fist when he said it, whatever we do we do in unison and everyone comes along. for the people not familiar with the relations between these two

countries or nato -- or poland's role in nato. who was convincing whom at this meeting? what was that about? the last month has shown a couple of cracks between the u.s. and poland. poland decided it wanted to give a number of jets to ukraine, but it wanted to give it through germany and the united states begged away from that. what needs to be mended and who is convincing who of what right now? >> that's a great question. really, poland, the three baltic state, estonia, latvia, lithuania, most of the countries along nato's eastern flank, they're the ones that have been leading. they've been pushing nato and european union to do more and their history informs this posture. when you see these devastating images of mariupol. they see warsaw being destroyed and that was so important that

president biden mentioned that very strident for our freedom and yours, that was the message of the polish resistance in the second world war. they understand what this means and they're also not naive. they are not timid and understanding that we have to meet this russian challenge with strength. we can't be afraid that we're going to provoke. president putin is going to continue to escalate which is why our strength is important. so right now, i hope president biden is hearing fully from obviously his polish colleagues and there was a meeting earlier this morning between the ukrainian foreign and defense ministers with their american counterparts filling them in. it is the u.s. karching up a little bit with the poland's forward-leaning posture. i don't mean to say we'll gallop ahead into the conflict, but in

some ways the biden administration is playing karch catch up and now we have it lean in on this and give it a sense of what ukraine has been missing after this war. that's what's been missing. >> you were president of the german marshal fund and yesterday i had a conversation to the ukrainian member of the united states and i could see her emotion as we were watching pictures of mariupol, and i asked her what she thought. she said ukraine will need a marshal fund and it will need a big rebuild and she was thinking about the future and she was thinking about the point when this war is over and russia is out of ukraine and it is very hard to think of ukraine with more than 4 million people out of the country and 10 million people out of their homes and the massive destruction that they've been watching, but we've been through this before.

>> we have. this is the type of big thinking and ambition that we need to have. we have to give the ukrainian people hope and the promise of a better future and part of that is the promise of rebuilding. we know what the marshal plan meant to europe after the second world war. it was great u.s. investment in partnership with building europe and we look at the success today and in fact, i was so happy that president biden mentioned and he re-affirmed that a stable, prosperous strong europe is in america's strategic interest. that has been true for a very long time. i think we were losing that sense as we were pivoting to the indo-pacific and we have reaffirmed this and you're right. that's the ambition. it's not only economic assistance. it's giving ukraine the promise of a euro-atlantic future and as i argue, quite frankly, 4 million ukrainians are now in

nato and the european union because of the conflict. we have to harness that strength and not only give ukraine, georgia, moldova and these other countries and that's the unfinished business in some ways we didn't complete and a marshal plan, strong u.s. and european and let's rebuild ushg crane and let's give them a better future and that's the message we want to hear this afternoon from president biden. >> i will say there are a lot of people with whom i speak now almost daily like you who i would be happy to not speak with because that would mean there isn't a war going on, but you are one that we'll continue to speak with, because when we talk about the rebuilding of ukraine and the investment into it then we'll be in a good place. thank you for your time and expertise. heather connelly is with the fund. president joe biden has wrapped up a meeting with the

polish president, and it's been packed with high-profile meetings with nato, the g7 and the european council, this week underscores the gravity of the peril facing not just ukraine, but all of europe. president biden has arguably been engaged in some of the most important gatherings of world leaders literally in xaj rags and i'm not exaggerating when i say that. the west is trying to fortify a united front against russia as we enter month two of russia's brutal invasion of ukraine. a world that threatens to undermine the order that was established in world war ii, to prevent countries, and this was something biden emphasized during the meeting with the polish president. >> the single most important criteria in this time of a changing world. so much is changing. not just here, but in other parts of the world is that nato stay absolutely, completely,

thoroughly united. there could be no separation in our points of view, that whatever we do, we do in unison and everyone -- everyone comes along. i am confident that vladimir putin was counting on being able to divide nato, and be able to separate the eastern flank from the west, being able to separate nations based on past histories, but he hasn't been able to do it. >> shortly you will see a convoy with president biden leaving, but he's getting set to meet with some of the ukrainians who fled their homes. in a few hours from now, biden will deliver a major address that jake sullivan says, quote, speaks to the stakes of this moment. the urgency that lie ahead and what the conflict means for the

world and why the free world should sustain unity and resolve in the face of russian aggression, end quote. this all comes after president biden made several announcements in brussels this week about how the united states will help the besieged ukrainians. this includes $1 billion in new humanitarian aid and that's where food, shelter, clean water and medical supplies and other forms of assistance to those who have been affected by russia's war. president biden said the united states would well economy up to 100,000 ukrainian refugees and russia is shifting away from trying to overtake ukraine's capital of kyiv, instead focusing on the donbas region. the donbas consists of two regions contested by the separatists since the 2014 annexation of crimea. although russia's ground offensive appears to be stalled for now, thousands of troops are stationed at military outposts

in neighboring countries from georgia to syria. the pentagon believes the kremlin believes to keep its ground offensive going despite sustaining heavy casualties. nato estimates that as many as 15,000 russian troops may have been killed in the month since this war began and ukrainian forces are beginning to retake some territories. 15,000, if that's true, that's as many russian soldiers as were killed in the entire soviet occupation of afghanistan which lasted for a decade, in one month. according to the pentagon, russia has lost full control of kherson which was the first ukrainian city that it captured. ukrainian officials are fighting for control of the key port city, however, russia is still attacking major cities. the mayor of chernihiv, a city 80 miles north of kyiv says russian troops have surrounded it. they took the footage of the destruction you're seeing now and says over 150,000 people

remain trapped without heat or electricity. look at these images. we are now getting a first look inside a theater in mariupol that russia bombed. those are ukrainians that were inside, shocked, covered in dust as they walked through the destruction. officials in mariupol said over 300 people taking shelter in the building were killed and that's a claim that we are not able to verify at this point, but if true, it would be the single worst atrocity since the war began. officials said over 136 children have been killed in just over a month. countless lives have been taken as a result of putin's aggression and millions more are continuing to flee the country. according to the united nations refugee agency, more than 3.7 million people have fled ukraine since the war began. the agency reports that more than 2.2 million of those refugees have arrived right here in poland.

joining me from lviv, ukraine, i am joined by jacob soboroff. >> i think a constant state of distrust, disbelief, indignation, a lack of faith in any way, shape or form from what we heard from the top russian general early this morning. those are the headlines here in lviv and across the nation, the idea that russia is saying the first phase of their operation is over and they're going to be shifting operation, as you said to the donbas, the eastern part of this country. look at mariupol. look at what we're hearing from the deputy prime minister here today. 100,000 people potentially trapped in that southern port city. you mentioned there might be 300 dead there in that bombing of that theater that was marked on the outside with children. i was walking the streets this morning in lviv, still a relatively peaceful city in the western part of this country and not that far away from where you are, relatively speaking and i ran into an aid worker who has

been engaged in a humanitarian aid worker trying to help feed the ukrainian people amid food insecurity and i asked her what she thought when she heard from the russian general that perhaps there was going to be a shift in operations and she said absolutely not. we don't believe any word that the russians say and that's something that you hear continuously from the people in ukraine and frankly, how can you blame them? >> jacob, when she said she doesn't believe the russians, does she believe they're focusing on donbas regardless if it was a ruse to go to other parts of ukraine? in other words, is this a recognition of russia saying we're not going to take ukraine, let's take donbas and leave? >> sure. that's the subtext here and russia is announcing this because they're being forced to change strategy. their operation has been a

failure in the eyes of ukraine including sacking and taking the capital. as far as ukrainians are concerned, this is not a new war. this is a war that's been going for eight years particularly in that part of the country. so when you hear the idea that they're shifting operations. they're disgusted by it. it's been what's going on here for a decade and the distrust is pervasive and deep in this country and they don't believe that russia will stop operations. listen to the sounds that you hear in this city, a peaceful city behind me. it's a mix of an attempt to get back to life to normal with music plague in the park and sirens constantly sounding in the streets here. >> jacob, stay safe, my friend. jacob soboroff is live in lviv. you are watching a special edition of "velshi." more than 2.2 million ukrainians have escaped to this country and

more displaced in their own country. later president biden will be meeting with refugees at pg&e stadium along with the mayor of warsaw and he's expected to deliver a speech yesterday, someone staying behind to defend her country and her city has made her fall back in love with kyiv. >> i used to avoid, like, public places because i hated, like tourists and there were so many tourists and there were so many people from other countries. i was tired of people, but now that 2 million have left i can every and roughly 2 million have stayed and now i fell in love with my city. love with my city

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u.n. says more than 3.7 million ukrainians have fled the country amid the ongoing

russian attack. some 10 million others have been displaced including half of ukraine's children. in a new piece with the atlantic the analyst reveals a few of her reasons for staying in her hometown. first of all, you never leave your loved ones and kyiv is my love. it is a city where i was born 31 years ago in 1991, the year my country got back independence from the soviet union. it is the city where i found my husband, also a kyivian, and it is the city where i have built a career in journalism and i have left a memory on almost every street in kyiv. the executive editor of the new voice of ukraine, veronica. thank you for your lovely words. i have to encourage my audience to read it. it's like poetry all of the way through. it almost feels like kyiv under siege, kyiv in a time of war has given you a stronger love and

you already had a love for your city and country, but it almost seems like it strengthened it. >> yeah. it sure did. i -- looked at my city -- >> go ahead. >> i looked at it like from another angle. it used to be sometimes busy, annoying, big city like any other big city in the world where a native sometimes feels like people who arrived here, too many tourists and too many ukrainians from other cities are squeezing me out or something like that, but it's not true, actually. now kyiv is like an iron fist staring in the face of the russian aggression where people are making every contribution they can to protect kyiv as well as the situation is the same not

only here, but in other cities and towns that suffered even more from the russian invasion. >> one of the things as i've been meeting refugees over the last several weeks that the sadness of leaving their home is one thing, but the sadness of leaving behind family members seems to be another thing altogether, the women who have come whose husbands cannot leave the country. the older people who have come who have left their more elderly parents back home because they were not able to leave. you talk about your granny who is 76 years old who has also said i don't want to leave. >> yeah. she said that she's better to die in her perfectly decorated apartment she chose herself rather than some durty basement because she's very afraid of going to the bomb shelter

because currently those basements have become a new home for so many people and people are there living in very bad conditions especially in the districts when there is no metro and the people are hurting there, but it doesn't have very good system of bomb shelters so it's mostly basements. >> one of the things you also write about is the women. we've obviously met a lot of them who are members of parliament. you have a very young parliament. you have a lot of women in your parliament and the women who have taken up arms. we've spoken to them who have never had a gun before and they've trained and are doing what they can at various levels to try and fight this war and you pay tribute to them in your article. >> yeah. i think not in that article, but in my twitter, i usually write

about ukrainian women warriors. for me it's a matter of national pride and also female pride because i -- sometimes i feel guilty that i didn't join the army and everyone must do the job that they're best of, but more and more ukrainian women are choosing because it's not obligatory for women in ukraine to serve in the army yet, but they're choosing this and they're taking arms in their hands to defend their country because in ukraine we are equal and we are treated equal and they're fighting, like, together with our men, and i think that this is -- the best signal to the whole world and especially to russia that demonstrates that

ukraine will do everything it can to protect itself from the russian world that brings nothing more than destruction and death where it comes. >> veronica, thank you for sharing your thoughts with us. veronica is the new voice of ukraine executive editor. coming up, the nato alliance says it has an open door policy, but getting through that door is a complicated and lengthy process. i'll explain how it could become the next nation in nato. you are watching velshi from warsaw, poland. e watching velshm warsaw, poland i had to get help somewhere along the line to stay competitive. i discovered prevagen. i started taking it and after a period of time, my memory improved. it was a game-changer for me.

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push into this so we cannee what's going on. these are the lead cars and there are ambulances and police. that's the beast. that's the president's car coming out of the presidential palace. it's now going to take a turn. you'll see it turn on to the main street and it will appear on the camera that i'm at just moments from now. that is coming out of the presidential palace. this convoy of vehicles is dozens and dozens of vehicles strong and tactical vehicles and there are medical vehicles and security escorts and this is right next to where i am right now. the president has left after holding a meeting with the president of poland. the defense secretary lloyd austin and the secretary of state antony blinken are there. where the beast is right now is where i am and jim will pick it up on his camera. this is the president of the united states driving by on our position where we are getting this show to you from.

they are now headed to a stadium here in warsaw, a reception area for refugees that have streamed into this country and there have been 3.7 million refugees in total, 2 million and i'm sorry i'm in jim's shot here. 2.2 million of them have come into poland. 300,000 of theme have come into this sea alone. warsaw has taken 300,000 refugees and in a little while i'll show you a story of what happens to them when they come here and these are the remnants now of the president's motorcade that has left the presidential palace here in warsaw, poland. the russian president vladimir putin has called ukraine's pursuit of nato membership a justification for an unprovoked war. ukraine is and not has never been a member of nato, the north atlantic treaty organization and joining that military alliance is kind of like a long, multi-level job interview.

there are several steps and certain requirements -- i'll just hold on for a second. this is the back of the motorcade. [ sirens ] >> that's president biden's motorcade making its way through warsaw. it's past where we are now. they're going to a stadium which is a reception center for literally tens of thousands of refugees. i'll stick with this for a minute while we watch this happen. this heavy, heavy, heavy security here for obvious reasons and poland is a nato member and i'll go back to that in a second once we're clear of these sirens and an explanation of what happened with nato and how you actually end up joining nato. you can see these are security forces and media who are

covering this convoy of vehicles on the way to a stadium. what poland has done is it is allowing refugees to get a card which is very much like a social security number. it's a number that allows you to access health care, education and get work and things like that. so joe biden will be going there to see that center at work and it's kind of remarkable, they provide health care at this reception center and they've got a bus terminal where they can take busses to all sorts of other people to other places in europe. joining me now is david millband, a former secretary for the united kingdom and currently the ceo of the international rescue committee. david, thank you for being with us. typically, i -- i juggle between the two hats that you have as the former foreign secretary and the current ceo of the international rescue committee, but you have a third piece of your background that's uniquely relevant to what's happening today and that is that you are

the child of polish jewish immigrants. >> you're right. the scenes that you've been showing of people fleeing for their lives are very much in the moment, but they do summon up my own family history. my dad left from belgium to the united kingdom in 1940 and joined the royal navy. my mom survived the war in poland in hiding and came as a 12-year-old in 1946. so it's literally the case that if the uk had not admitted polish refugees in the 1940s i wouldn't be here today. some of the reaction that you're seeing across europe to the war in ukraine and an extraordinary reaction from the refugees and the people offering homes and the people volunteering, some of that response is down to the memories that are being brought up from deep as a result of the russian invasion into ukraine

and the awful european history that it summons up. >> let me ask you about the politics in europe. joe biden said something very interesting in his meeting with president duda, and he said the ability of the united states to do its job around the world relies upon the stability of europe. what we've seen in europe over the last decade or so is -- you know, a backsliding of democracy in some places in europe. here in poland, in hungary where i was, it almost seems like what has happened in ukraine has reminded europe and european democracies about what's important at this point. the ideological discussions seem to have fallen aside at least for a moment with most of these countries because they understand an eternal threat has to be dealt with. >> i think you are making a vital point here. we know president putin is trying to rewind the

geopolitical clock to 1990, but what has happened is europeans have rediscovered the spirit of 1989 and '90 and a europe full and free. you are also right to point out that hungary, poland saw the countries on the front line with refugees in ukraine and some of those most opposed to receiving refugees from syria in 2015 and '16. this is the moment when europe doesn't just need to bulk up militarily, it doesn't need to bulk up politically and that is what you're seeing as a moment of presidential leadership being offered by the u.s. president here. he's saying america stands with you, but you've also got to stand up for yourself militarily, politically and morally in how you treat people on the run. europe has extraordinary values to draw on, and this is a moment to be reminded of how important it is and not just european, but

the transatlantic alliance stays strong. >> being, we'll talk about later in the show how the united states has decided to do about refugees, david millbrand is currently the president and ceo of the international rescue committee which is doing great work around refugees for those of you who have been asking me how do i help? that's a good way to help. as you saw president biden on way to pg&e stadium to meet with refugees at a temporary shelter set up there. you are watching a special edition of "velshi" in warsaw. edition of "velshi" in warsaw. as a dermatologist, i want what's best for our skin. with 1/4 moisturizing cream, dove is the #1 bar dermatologists use at home. once upon a time, at the magical everly estate, landscaper larry and his trusty crew... were delayed when the new kid totaled his truck. timber... fortunately, they were covered by progressive, so it was a happy ending... for almost everyone.

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the single most important thing that we can do from the outset is the keep the democracies united in our opposition and our effort to curtail the devastation that is occurring at the hands of a man

who, quite frankly, i think is a war criminal. >> president biden has left no room for interpretation calling out russian president vladimir putin as a war criminal for the way he's conducted his brutal invasion of ukraine. beyond engaging ukrainian troops, it's targeted apartment buildings, hospitals and that's left killed and wounded. the determination that russia has committed war crimes is based on a careful review on information from public intelligence resources, but like any alleged crime it's up to the court to determine actual guilt. in this case the jurisdiction of alleged war crimes falls under the international criminal court in the netherland, but for students of modern history, it might recall to mind another international incident from 1999. that's when for the first time in history a head of state was formally indicted for war

crimes. this is the leader slobodan milosevic, president of yugoslavia engaged in an ethnic cleansing campaign where his troops massacred in excess of 10,000 kosovo albanians. milosevic was removed from power and in 2001 he was extradited to the hague netherlands where the international criminal court is based for trial. he died in 2006, his charges for charges of genocide was still ongoing. joining me is juna hathaway an expert on war crimes and international law for the u.s. state department, professor at international law at yale law sool and the co-author of the book the internationalists and how a radical plan to outlaw world renamed the world. i had to borrow from your title, because there are some people and there are wars and conflicts going on all the time, but there are some people who thought that this old-fashioned war where one

country goes into another country and takes territory it's something of the past and it's not the way we do things now and when we do do them we find that there are war crimes that underlie these activities that fall under the guise of war. we're watching that happen yeah. i think what's so striking about this moment is we kind of have all taken for granted the idea that in the postpost-war era st don't just invade other states. that's partially because after world war ii the u.n. charter prohibited states from using force against other states unless they got authorization from the security council or were simply acting in their own self-defense. that's actually been extremely effective. the number of what we call intra state wars, wars between states, has gone down dramatically since 1945, and so we don't see these

kinds of invasions very often. now that's been a great thing. it's been a great thing for humanity. and it's part of the reason we also haven't encountered the situation we face today of states committing war crimes in other states against other state parties in the middle of an intrastate war. there have been wars and civil wars and wars where states have been involved in wars within other states, what we call intrastate wars, but this is really a pretty extraordinary circumstance that we're facing today. >> stand by for a second. we are watching president biden, he has arrived at the stadium where he will be -- he'll be meeting with refugees and service providers to those refugees. that's where he is right now. we don't know who he's speaking to. i will say this is a stadium that -- which refugees can come, they can seek medical treatment. there is shelter. it actually has the impression

of looking like the kind of shelters you'd see in the united states after a hurricane or a tornado. there are beds, there's medical facilities. we spoke it a doctor the other day who said they've performed the births of two children because you can't delay the birth of your child. some people come to warsaw and move on to other places. some try and get work. as you can see here, there's food aid, there's medicine, there are doctors, there are people who help you get this social security number that they get here in poland so that they can work and get health care. we're going to go in and out of this. obviously those pictures are changing constantly. we'll keep an eye on that. i want to go back to a topic with you, and that is that if -- there are courts that can try war crimes, but the deterrent effect of things like nato or the united nations or groups that say they will punish countries for doing this, they can't do these things without

some sort of approval from international bodies, it sort of feels like that's the other side of the equation. we do have to have strong enough international institutions that constitute a world order that stops this from happening. >> yeah, that's right. and there have been several institutions that have come into play in the current event. so obviously nato has been taking steps to really reinforce the eastern flank to try and halt any additional progression that there might be if putin were to decide to keep going after he's done with ukraine. the united nations has condemned the invasion, the security council initial vote was able to be vetoed by russia because it's a permanent member of the security council. but the general assembly then voted and condemned the action

of russia. and that has really set the stage for an expansive campaign of sanctions, of moving forward with war crimes trials eventually, now there's investigations underway. the flow of arms toward ukraine to allow it to defend itself. so institutions have played a really important role in helping ukraine stand up its defense which has been remarkably successful. >> thank you. we appreciate your time as always. una hathaway, professor of international law at yale law school and a member of the advisory committee on international law for the department of state. we're looking at live pictures -- let's go back to a second. i'll tell you what was going on there. joe biden is at a stadium in warsaw, and what you were watching moments ago and you still might see in the background is world central kitchens. that's jose andres' group, and

the president was just talking to him moments ago. you can recognize him because he's the guy that looks like me. he's got the same haircut. we'll keep dipping in and out. those are food trucks to feed refugees as they come in. i want to continue the conversation about refugees. i'm joined by caitlyn dickerson, staff writer for "the atlantic" who covers the immigration beat. you heard this morning in the president's conversation with the president of poland, he recognized the fact that poland has taken the vast majority of these refugees, over two million. this city that i am in alone, warsaw, has taken more than 300,000 refugees. the united states has said that it will take 100,000. a lot of people are saying, all right, maybe we can do better than that in the united states, and yet it's still better than we've done in other circumstances including the afghans. >> it is. you'll recall that just a year ago the president actually moved

to reen state the historic refugee resettlement, keeping it at 15,000 per year. and he faced so much blow back from democrats in congress that they eked the number up slightly from there. but 100,000 is a drop in the bucket when you look at the overall number of ukrainian refugees. as you said, there are millions who are seeking shelter in europe. but compared to recent american history, it's a huge number. and it has a lot of people calling into question why is that, why couldn't we raise the number of refugees for syrians, why couldn't we raise the number of refugees for people from afghanistan? i actually spoke to the secretary of homeland security about this, and he said that when you're in the middle of an active conflict it's a lot easier in a way to go through this bureaucratic process of being presented with evidence and make a decision when you've got an overwhelming number of photos and accounts that are all coming in at once.

it makes it easier to make this decision more quickly. but that's, 40s, not, you know, a bomb, it doesn't make someone feel better whose family mei xiang -- whose family member may have trouble getting into the u.s. >> why have we -- i think i know the answer to there -- why have we not been good at this? we were not good with the afghans, the syrians, we're doing better with the ukrainians, and a lot of people do seem to think -- and they deserve all the help we can give them -- but a lot of people seem to think it's because they're white and christians and the other ones aren't. >> there are so many factors at play here. i've spoken to a lot of experts who say it would be reducktive to chalk up this distinction solely up to race. but as you point out, there's this undeniable difference that has a lot of people frustrated. i can talk about, you know, what's specific in this conflict and historically how the u.s. has used these policies.

as you and i have discussed, policies like asylum, policies like refugee resettlement and temporarily protected status which we recently opened up to ukrainians, as well, that gives people who are already in the u.s., undocumented or waiting for a resolution on their asylum case, a year of protection. these aren't just altruistic policies, they never have been. they're also geopolitical tools that we've used historically to show our superiority in a way as a nation. so when we accepted large numbers of people from vietnam or from cuba seeking communism, it was the same thing. it's sort of the ultimate dig on the international arena to say to your enemy, you know, your people are fleeing or people in this case in the territory that you're trying to take over, are fleeing and coming to us for protection. that's just how much superior we are as a country. and so it's a way of helping people but also showing our strength. and also in this case we have president biden trying to show a sense of solidarity with the eu.

as you know, the entirety of the west is strategizing right now to prevent this conflict from growing into something larger, and so this is a way of saying to europe we've got your back. there's a clearer sort of dog in the fight that the united states has at least in the eyes of people who are making these decisions in washington. but again, you know, we were talking about syrians earlier, you know, syrians who are facing a ground war just years ago as well as chemical weapons with help from putin and couldn't get that same support from the united states. >> caitlyn, thank you, as always. we appreciate it. caitlyn dickerson, staff writer for "the atlantic." you are looking at the pictures. you can see jose andres in a ball cap dodging in and out of the cameras. president biden is with him. they're in front of world central kitchens bus or structure of some sort. they are showing the president some of the things -- we've seen world central kitchens, i saw them throughout hungary, on the border. this is what jose andres and his

group does whenever there's a natural disaster or hurricane. they get out there because they realize that no matter what comes later including discussions about refugee status and asylum, what a lot of refugees need when they cross the border first is food, a hot meal, some ability to sit down in a shelter, get warm, have something to drink, and think about what you're going to do next. if you're just joining us, i'm in warsaw, poland. saturday, march 26th, day 31 of russia's war against ukraine. the fourth and final day of president biden's urgent diplomatic trip to europe. usually this time you'd be seeing my good friend tiffany cross. i'm here in poland following president biden's trip, but rest assured tiffany is going to be back next weekend. right now the president is meeting with ukrainian refugees, as we said, at the pge national stadium, where refugees have been lining up waiting to be issued with polish identification cards and numbers that enable them to work and receive free health care and education. in this country in hopes of regain something sense of